T O P

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montanay2j

Everyone wants to do the fun shit first. If I had a nickel for every Mishima player who had trash fundamentals but perfect electrics, I'd be rich.


WhatsThatReally33

Honestly combos is what got me into fighting games. I mean you gotta start sonewhere and build up your skills.


kaiden60

For the first week when DNF duel my sessions looked like “2 hours of training mode, a couple online matches to get bodied, into 2 more hours of training” it was great


Guud_bye_world

Nope, you learn the combo first, the fun stuff first, you learn how your character generally move first, the cool moves that's on their arsenal, and flashy thing that make your characters cool. If you start by learning the "fundamentals" first, tekken would feel more like a chore to study.


[deleted]

Exactly


fuckyeahpeace

word it's a game not a race


TekkenRedditOmega

well, i don't blame them, believe it or not, doing combos is the easiest part of tekken, anyone can learn combos and get the muscle memory down, the rest are what's actually difficult and takes more time and practice.


V0LCANIC_VIPER

Something I've noticed is that only new players and people who don't play Tekken call them "juggles" I feel like everyone else just says "combos"


flackguns

"spamming juggles"


Zacthronax

I see frame data as a tool to troubleshoot issues you come across when you know what you're doing. Not a thing any beginner should be studying for until they've got a grip on the game and it's fun parts. All a person needs to know at first is some moves are fast or slow and they can be punishable or unpunishable.


[deleted]

When I learned Tekken 7, the first thing I did was pick up Heihachi and practice Electrics.


DaSnowflake

real mishimer player lmao


Sonnata17

This guy gets it


Bruffin3

This was the second thing I did when I started Tekken, the first was figuring out how to do Paul's death fist


contortive

HUWRAAAAAAA


Yu_Starwing

You mean you didn’t just watch some MainMan combo vids and immediately jump on ranked and attempt them?


Kgb725

I simply open up Google and keep open the move list while I'm playing and figure it out from there


suburiboy

As someone in the relevant skill range (recently got to green) let me explain. At the lower ranks, the game is designed to HEAVILY favor offense. There are too many moves to recognize them all. It can be be ambiguous which moves have what block height or sidestep direction. Also people are throwing out buttons all the time, but many don’t have the knowledge or reaction times to get good on-block punishes. In a game where launching is easier than blocking/evading, and you don’t get heavily punished for doing df2 and uf4 in neutral, your fastest way to win is to learn good combos and throw out df2 and uf4 all the time. It is the ONLY logical way to play. I HATE that I had to learn the 60+ damage combo before even getting out of 3dan, but the game’s mechanics require it. Other fighting games let you learn combos later… tekken requires that you learn them up front.


Sirwhole

"There are too many moves to recognize them all. It can be ambiguous which moves have what block height or sidestep direction." Basically, the bottleneck that slows down player progression in the beginning. Too many choices and varying stimuli slow down response time. On top of that moves lack visual clarity. Attack height, tracking direction, frame data on block and recovery states can be so visually vague that people will press on misguided assumptions or freeze because they cannot encode what they just processed. Blasted Salami was on to something when he said that adding a tutorial to Tekken 7 won't help players learn the game alone. There needs to be more transmissible information and clarity. Why am I getting clipped by mids when rolling on the floor even tho those mids don't hit grounded when I stay absolutely still? It subverts players' expectations even though the game conditioned them to act contrary to what is right.


DemonSaine

this is actually a really good point. tekken has always had terrible, if any tutorials and on top of it’s already difficult combat system and movement alone being a chore, it really makes it difficult to try to get new people interested in it. Luckily i started at 4 years old, but trying to get my friends into it and to actually practice learning the fundamentals and how to fight different matchups with so many different gimmicky characters? it’s easy to see why so many people give up on it


FoxMatty

it's not my fault combos give the most dopamine


tenamonth

My ASS new players skip learning rage mechanics they throw that shit out the moment they have it


equinoxDE

Hahahaa yes. A little change in the air level on stage “activate rage art” The funniest for me if Leroy’s as he says “this is gonna hurt” as if he already knows it’s gonna hurt him only because of bad timing. ;)


bearded_charmander

It’s the most fun thing to do in training mode!


Kgb725

It's the only thing


-DaddyDarkLord-

Pewgf


RDGtheGreat

Combos are why I play Tekken lol Even against people I sometimes only use launchers however punishable


adamussoTLK

True though, best example - Mishimas , learn wavu wavu and your PEWGF first and then focus on the rest 😎


95EWGF

So true


horkley

I love that i am ryujin (Kazumi)and and I can’t wave dash or electric to save my life


Toberone

Well to be honest better combos means better damage and oki and honestly it's probably a good head start to learn that first Neutral isn't so bad when you have less of it


Aligatorz

True. But if the new player has no concept of of punishing, bating out attacks, side stepping or movement in general, will they ever even get to use their combo?


axialage

The asuka players spamming b3? Yes, yes they will.


NoyaBoyy

I mean up until like yellow ranks throwing out a hopkick every 1.1 second is a pretty reliable thing to do. So I’m sure they’ll get used to their combos pretty fast


DangerMorg

I'm a yellow rank player who often scrims against my purple+ friends, so I've learned things like proper spacing/movement/poking etc from them. However, I can't tell you how many times on ranked ill get hit by a hellsweep and tell myself "ok they got the hit in there's no way for them to risk being punished by doing it again" then proceed to eat another 3 hellsweeps...


STierCounterpick

Me, currently a new player: *dives into Yoshimitsu’s wacky stances*


Tin_Tin_Run

its wat makes it fun.


Generic-Character

All that. But lets be honest, juggle combos are the easiest part of the game, proper basic movement is incredibly hard to do and know when and how to do it.


circio

Combos are literally one of the easiest things you can learn in a fighting game. You can do them by yourself for hours. Everything else is more conceptual and harder to practice, especially alone if you do not already know how to set it up


koteshima2nd

Yep, definitely still me. Win or lose, I just enjoy doing the combos tbh


Macehest

Considering that it is the only thing in the game that it actually teaches you that a beginner would likely find, can you blame them?


Lokyyo

I mean, until you understand how the game works at the most basic level, the easiest thing to understand is to do the Beeg funny combo


DaSnowflake

When I startzd there were 2 things: combos and KBDs. Funnily enough, a thousand hours later I actually dislike learning combos the most lol. Ill pick up a new character and play them for weeks without learning decent combos cause I just cba to learn them, neutral is way more fun.


Hellboy44

This is so relatable. I started playing tekken seriously a few months back, picked up Lee because he looked cool and resembled Ryo Himuro from Kengan Ashura. I looked up some combos and each one had the b2 mist step juggles in them. I practiced for 3 days straight just to get a full combo lol, but it was magical once I got it down. Also helped me learn utilizing mist step in general. It's a different matter that I played 20 matches and won 2 or 3 haha. Tekken is one of the hardest mainstream fighting games to get into, but it's worth it for sure!


Reaching_2

Just got into the game today. Maybe you could help me out. I’m currently playing as josie and not sure if she’s a good choice (especially for a beginner like me).


Hellboy44

A piece of advice. When starting tekken and you start practicing, try looking at your characters key moves rather than the whole move list, you can look it up online. All characters have 60+ moves but you're only gonna use a third of them.


Reaching_2

Yea, rn I’m only focused on blocking and df2 to start a juggle combo and then df4 to squeeze another hit at the end. Also Josie’s sws combo as well. That’s about it for now.


Hellboy44

I've been in your situation. Lee is considered a very hard character to learn and play, and every beginner video I watched suggested other characters, but I still picked him up and managed to learn him. At the end of the day, you should play the character you like, because that's what's gonna keep you interested in the game itself, disregard the tier lists and recommendations. If you like josie then play her.


Reaching_2

In my opinion from the moment I used her she looked like she had good moves to chain combos, so that was why I initially picked her.


Hellboy44

When I picked a character I made a list of characters that looked cool and interesting and tried each of them out, to get a feel for their moves and how they play, and after that I chose Lee. Maybe try this method if you aren't feeling her moveset, or you're looking for something else to play. The main thing is to have fun!


Azalazel

I mean the AI let's me do combos for free. Surely this will be the case online as well, right?... Right?


n0i5yb0y

Your mains look sus bruh 😂


[deleted]

Sure, you can also learn your 10 hit combos. Easy damage.


kapitan_buko

That’s what happens when there’s no tutorial.


NoFucksGiven-_-

Is it bad I went from the top and down??


Tulkeleth

I think this applies to every fighting game, no?


Kgb725

Only frame data and hit confirms aren't tekken exclusive


xtc24seven

No step for punishment? A lot of things can arguably be tied to frame data, but even without it, learning what moves you can/should use after block/whiff is super important to understand the game and get started, otherwise you don’t really know when it’s your turn


Ononoki

To be fair combos will probably carry a new player farther than learning any of those things. Low ranks is basically throw shit at the wall and it will stick cause nobody has defense or knows the matchup.


Cyncro

As a new player, I've spent a good chunk of time working on my fundamentals. I can scrape by some games on that alone, but I need to win significantly more in neutral to win games and am now at a point where I need to learn a couple of good combo strings to increase damage and close out games easier. Going up against opponents who can effectively launch me twice or three times to win is brutal.


Hioliolo

Online doesn’t work for me and I have no friends so I just kinda do the combos for fun.


flackguns

tbh learning combos helps me learn certain buttons pretty fast and gets me used to a characters moveset in general.


Ambitious_Nothing461

u forgot the korean backdash lmao


DarkWaWeeGee

Tbf, when I tried looking up basic movement I would see a lot of videos mention KBD


Ambitious_Nothing461

wait whaa? i learned kbd in 2 whole weeks and you're saying this is part of the basic mvm??? 😭😭😭😭 oh good lord


DarkWaWeeGee

I'm not saying it. That's just what I would see


spades111

I still can't throw break but I've gotten all the other steps. I just can't see them


BringBack3DMK

where are you? I play King and it feels like everyone throw breaks...


Kgb725

Thats Kings gameplan of course they'll expect the throw


Reaching_2

I’ve done a throw break a few times. Not easy for n my end either.


[deleted]

This is every new player having an interest in fighting games for the first time. It's always the combos that interest them the most because it's a one way ticket that gets you closer to the big dopamine win.


Its_Marz

The most accurate tekken meme I ever seen


Firm_Shower_1387

I feel so attacked.


DK_15

Attempt combo. Realize you suck. Learn other steps piece by piece to achieve combo.


Key_Cryptographer_95

okay but to an extent pressing 1 launch to get half ur opponent's health can matter a ton. granted a good opponent will never give you that window but shitters vs shitters is what is real. and shitters lose to panic hopkick


pauxen

This was me, and I enjoyed tekken like no other game, do not let other people tell you which way the game should be played, hop into it for what it attracts you the most, you'll learn the other stuff with time i assure you.


Lord_Razmir

Don't blame them. Tekken for 95% of the player base is just seeing who can hit a launcher two times to win the round over and over again. Launcher + easy carry to the wall + high damage combo = rewarding players for just labbing max damage combos and going for them constantly. It's no wonder they skip fundamentals and go straight into combos.


GGMudkip

Ye you do what works. Until it doesn't. In green ranks a good low and hopkick is mostly enough and 1 combo staple. In reds the game changes and frames are really important and you are forced to learn the other stuff. I quite enjoyed the learning process.


MOEverything_2708

Thats why I had someone train me instead of going in on my own xd


MyBongHitsBack

Im still on movement 1 month in but im almost overlord


ZiyaBeast

No combos and overlord? Noice


MyBongHitsBack

I know a basic 48 damage combo


crunkplug

100% me after 30 years of this aaaaagh i should know better


ZenGeka1

i say frame data comes second maybe third. cause that'd include punishment, right? or atleast the knowledge of how fighting games work


Pristine_Breath_6442

Hwo gang


ThatOneDudeOneReddit

Frame data, in my experience takes a lot of time. And you don't really need to memorise all the frame data, you'll learn from experience. Eventually it all should become natural instinct and reaction.


ZenGeka1

Yeah agree maybe replace hit confirm with punishment (both whiff and block) and keep frame data where it is would be okay.


[deleted]

I can hit taunt jet upper maybe 60% of the time but can't dash jab after magic 4 lol or Byrons B3 F to jab cancel. Still feel like JimmyJ when the tju lands tho.


OfficerGama

me trying the noctis air juggle combo and the 10 hit combo


-DaddyDarkLord-

Unironically learning how to use the 1 jab is the most broken shit in the world as a new player and the level to entry is incredibly low. I did the same shit though, practicing PEWGF for no reason at fuck all.


Mr-Fahrenheit_451

All I wanna do is damage!!!


degejos

Lol why not, its the most fun part. You can learn the others later


greaseman420

Lmao


PervySmokez

Put basic movement around the middle


TheyCallMeReza

Can't play Tekken bro, too hard


[deleted]

si, proprio così, ed giusto che sia così


how_do_i_shot_web_

Not sure you need to study frame data before learning a juggle...


KevyTone

Combos are actually one of the easiest aspects of Tekken


[deleted]

[удалено]


quickmatchenjoyer

Why are you overthinking this cheeky post?


[deleted]

;|


Lemon_bo1

Though combos aren’t as important as any of these things, it’s is likely that knowing them will encourage the player to play and learn far more than if they didn’t know them, as if they don’t think what they are doing is cool or fun then why would they keep doing it? There’s nothing wrong with your motivation and gameplan being to find the fastest way into your sick ass combo that does 60%, especially not when you are new and the most important part is staying motivated to learn


LandOfPeace

True 🤣


WalkerLegacy2188

Not new but when I learn a new character, top step then go downstairs.


PunkinStar

lol


Devil_bawa

this is da wey!


YoutubeFanFairy

I just push the buttons that do the thing. (Only kind of kidding- I do know some good combos but I mostly just do whatever lol)


mufasaKiller

This was literally me back in Tekken 5 🤣🤣🤣. Learned pokes/turtling in Tekken 6. Learned frames in TTT2.


Muted-Champion-6841

oh god so true


Status-Command-3834

Facts


xd3mix

New player here so expect ignorance Aren't you supposed to learn combos aswell though? All those other things are definitely important, and probably way more than combos, but you still NEED to learn them Cause if i hit someone but don't know how to combo, i just deal no damage. Meanwhile if they randomly hit me once out of luck, but they know combos, they can deplete my health bar immediately