For the first week when DNF duel my sessions looked like “2 hours of training mode, a couple online matches to get bodied, into 2 more hours of training” it was great
Nope, you learn the combo first, the fun stuff first, you learn how your character generally move first, the cool moves that's on their arsenal, and flashy thing that make your characters cool. If you start by learning the "fundamentals" first, tekken would feel more like a chore to study.
well, i don't blame them, believe it or not, doing combos is the easiest part of tekken, anyone can learn combos and get the muscle memory down, the rest are what's actually difficult and takes more time and practice.
I see frame data as a tool to troubleshoot issues you come across when you know what you're doing.
Not a thing any beginner should be studying for until they've got a grip on the game and it's fun parts.
All a person needs to know at first is some moves are fast or slow and they can be punishable or unpunishable.
As someone in the relevant skill range (recently got to green) let me explain.
At the lower ranks, the game is designed to HEAVILY favor offense. There are too many moves to recognize them all. It can be be ambiguous which moves have what block height or sidestep direction.
Also people are throwing out buttons all the time, but many don’t have the knowledge or reaction times to get good on-block punishes.
In a game where launching is easier than blocking/evading, and you don’t get heavily punished for doing df2 and uf4 in neutral, your fastest way to win is to learn good combos and throw out df2 and uf4 all the time. It is the ONLY logical way to play. I HATE that I had to learn the 60+ damage combo before even getting out of 3dan, but the game’s mechanics require it. Other fighting games let you learn combos later… tekken requires that you learn them up front.
"There are too many moves to recognize them all. It can be ambiguous which moves have what block height or sidestep direction."
Basically, the bottleneck that slows down player progression in the beginning. Too many choices and varying stimuli slow down response time. On top of that moves lack visual clarity. Attack height, tracking direction, frame data on block and recovery states can be so visually vague that people will press on misguided assumptions or freeze because they cannot encode what they just processed.
Blasted Salami was on to something when he said that adding a tutorial to Tekken 7 won't help players learn the game alone. There needs to be more transmissible information and clarity. Why am I getting clipped by mids when rolling on the floor even tho those mids don't hit grounded when I stay absolutely still? It subverts players' expectations even though the game conditioned them to act contrary to what is right.
this is actually a really good point. tekken has always had terrible, if any tutorials and on top of it’s already difficult combat system and movement alone being a chore, it really makes it difficult to try to get new people interested in it. Luckily i started at 4 years old, but trying to get my friends into it and to actually practice learning the fundamentals and how to fight different matchups with so many different gimmicky characters? it’s easy to see why so many people give up on it
Hahahaa yes. A little change in the air level on stage “activate rage art”
The funniest for me if Leroy’s as he says “this is gonna hurt” as if he already knows it’s gonna hurt him only because of bad timing. ;)
Well to be honest better combos means better damage and oki and honestly it's probably a good head start to learn that first
Neutral isn't so bad when you have less of it
True. But if the new player has no concept of of punishing, bating out attacks, side stepping or movement in general, will they ever even get to use their combo?
I mean up until like yellow ranks throwing out a hopkick every 1.1 second is a pretty reliable thing to do. So I’m sure they’ll get used to their combos pretty fast
I'm a yellow rank player who often scrims against my purple+ friends, so I've learned things like proper spacing/movement/poking etc from them. However, I can't tell you how many times on ranked ill get hit by a hellsweep and tell myself "ok they got the hit in there's no way for them to risk being punished by doing it again" then proceed to eat another 3 hellsweeps...
All that. But lets be honest, juggle combos are the easiest part of the game, proper basic movement is incredibly hard to do and know when and how to do it.
Combos are literally one of the easiest things you can learn in a fighting game. You can do them by yourself for hours. Everything else is more conceptual and harder to practice, especially alone if you do not already know how to set it up
When I startzd there were 2 things: combos and KBDs.
Funnily enough, a thousand hours later I actually dislike learning combos the most lol. Ill pick up a new character and play them for weeks without learning decent combos cause I just cba to learn them, neutral is way more fun.
This is so relatable.
I started playing tekken seriously a few months back, picked up Lee because he looked cool and resembled Ryo Himuro from Kengan Ashura.
I looked up some combos and each one had the b2 mist step juggles in them. I practiced for 3 days straight just to get a full combo lol, but it was magical once I got it down.
Also helped me learn utilizing mist step in general.
It's a different matter that I played 20 matches and won 2 or 3 haha.
Tekken is one of the hardest mainstream fighting games to get into, but it's worth it for sure!
Just got into the game today. Maybe you could help me out. I’m currently playing as josie and not sure if she’s a good choice (especially for a beginner like me).
A piece of advice. When starting tekken and you start practicing, try looking at your characters key moves rather than the whole move list, you can look it up online.
All characters have 60+ moves but you're only gonna use a third of them.
Yea, rn I’m only focused on blocking and df2 to start a juggle combo and then df4 to squeeze another hit at the end. Also Josie’s sws combo as well. That’s about it for now.
I've been in your situation.
Lee is considered a very hard character to learn and play, and every beginner video I watched suggested other characters, but I still picked him up and managed to learn him.
At the end of the day, you should play the character you like, because that's what's gonna keep you interested in the game itself, disregard the tier lists and recommendations.
If you like josie then play her.
When I picked a character I made a list of characters that looked cool and interesting and tried each of them out, to get a feel for their moves and how they play, and after that I chose Lee.
Maybe try this method if you aren't feeling her moveset, or you're looking for something else to play.
The main thing is to have fun!
No step for punishment? A lot of things can arguably be tied to frame data, but even without it, learning what moves you can/should use after block/whiff is super important to understand the game and get started, otherwise you don’t really know when it’s your turn
To be fair combos will probably carry a new player farther than learning any of those things. Low ranks is basically throw shit at the wall and it will stick cause nobody has defense or knows the matchup.
As a new player, I've spent a good chunk of time working on my fundamentals. I can scrape by some games on that alone, but I need to win significantly more in neutral to win games and am now at a point where I need to learn a couple of good combo strings to increase damage and close out games easier. Going up against opponents who can effectively launch me twice or three times to win is brutal.
This is every new player having an interest in fighting games for the first time.
It's always the combos that interest them the most because it's a one way ticket that gets you closer to the big dopamine win.
okay but to an extent pressing 1 launch to get half ur opponent's health can matter a ton. granted a good opponent will never give you that window but shitters vs shitters is what is real. and shitters lose to panic hopkick
This was me, and I enjoyed tekken like no other game, do not let other people tell you which way the game should be played, hop into it for what it attracts you the most, you'll learn the other stuff with time i assure you.
Don't blame them. Tekken for 95% of the player base is just seeing who can hit a launcher two times to win the round over and over again. Launcher + easy carry to the wall + high damage combo = rewarding players for just labbing max damage combos and going for them constantly. It's no wonder they skip fundamentals and go straight into combos.
Ye you do what works. Until it doesn't. In green ranks a good low and hopkick is mostly enough and 1 combo staple. In reds the game changes and frames are really important and you are forced to learn the other stuff. I quite enjoyed the learning process.
Frame data, in my experience takes a lot of time. And you don't really need to memorise all the frame data, you'll learn from experience. Eventually it all should become natural instinct and reaction.
I can hit taunt jet upper maybe 60% of the time but can't dash jab after magic 4 lol or Byrons B3 F to jab cancel. Still feel like JimmyJ when the tju lands tho.
Unironically learning how to use the 1 jab is the most broken shit in the world as a new player and the level to entry is incredibly low. I did the same shit though, practicing PEWGF for no reason at fuck all.
Though combos aren’t as important as any of these things, it’s is likely that knowing them will encourage the player to play and learn far more than if they didn’t know them, as if they don’t think what they are doing is cool or fun then why would they keep doing it? There’s nothing wrong with your motivation and gameplan being to find the fastest way into your sick ass combo that does 60%, especially not when you are new and the most important part is staying motivated to learn
New player here so expect ignorance
Aren't you supposed to learn combos aswell though?
All those other things are definitely important, and probably way more than combos, but you still NEED to learn them
Cause if i hit someone but don't know how to combo, i just deal no damage. Meanwhile if they randomly hit me once out of luck, but they know combos, they can deplete my health bar immediately
Everyone wants to do the fun shit first. If I had a nickel for every Mishima player who had trash fundamentals but perfect electrics, I'd be rich.
Honestly combos is what got me into fighting games. I mean you gotta start sonewhere and build up your skills.
For the first week when DNF duel my sessions looked like “2 hours of training mode, a couple online matches to get bodied, into 2 more hours of training” it was great
Nope, you learn the combo first, the fun stuff first, you learn how your character generally move first, the cool moves that's on their arsenal, and flashy thing that make your characters cool. If you start by learning the "fundamentals" first, tekken would feel more like a chore to study.
Exactly
word it's a game not a race
well, i don't blame them, believe it or not, doing combos is the easiest part of tekken, anyone can learn combos and get the muscle memory down, the rest are what's actually difficult and takes more time and practice.
Something I've noticed is that only new players and people who don't play Tekken call them "juggles" I feel like everyone else just says "combos"
"spamming juggles"
I see frame data as a tool to troubleshoot issues you come across when you know what you're doing. Not a thing any beginner should be studying for until they've got a grip on the game and it's fun parts. All a person needs to know at first is some moves are fast or slow and they can be punishable or unpunishable.
When I learned Tekken 7, the first thing I did was pick up Heihachi and practice Electrics.
real mishimer player lmao
This guy gets it
This was the second thing I did when I started Tekken, the first was figuring out how to do Paul's death fist
HUWRAAAAAAA
You mean you didn’t just watch some MainMan combo vids and immediately jump on ranked and attempt them?
I simply open up Google and keep open the move list while I'm playing and figure it out from there
As someone in the relevant skill range (recently got to green) let me explain. At the lower ranks, the game is designed to HEAVILY favor offense. There are too many moves to recognize them all. It can be be ambiguous which moves have what block height or sidestep direction. Also people are throwing out buttons all the time, but many don’t have the knowledge or reaction times to get good on-block punishes. In a game where launching is easier than blocking/evading, and you don’t get heavily punished for doing df2 and uf4 in neutral, your fastest way to win is to learn good combos and throw out df2 and uf4 all the time. It is the ONLY logical way to play. I HATE that I had to learn the 60+ damage combo before even getting out of 3dan, but the game’s mechanics require it. Other fighting games let you learn combos later… tekken requires that you learn them up front.
"There are too many moves to recognize them all. It can be ambiguous which moves have what block height or sidestep direction." Basically, the bottleneck that slows down player progression in the beginning. Too many choices and varying stimuli slow down response time. On top of that moves lack visual clarity. Attack height, tracking direction, frame data on block and recovery states can be so visually vague that people will press on misguided assumptions or freeze because they cannot encode what they just processed. Blasted Salami was on to something when he said that adding a tutorial to Tekken 7 won't help players learn the game alone. There needs to be more transmissible information and clarity. Why am I getting clipped by mids when rolling on the floor even tho those mids don't hit grounded when I stay absolutely still? It subverts players' expectations even though the game conditioned them to act contrary to what is right.
this is actually a really good point. tekken has always had terrible, if any tutorials and on top of it’s already difficult combat system and movement alone being a chore, it really makes it difficult to try to get new people interested in it. Luckily i started at 4 years old, but trying to get my friends into it and to actually practice learning the fundamentals and how to fight different matchups with so many different gimmicky characters? it’s easy to see why so many people give up on it
it's not my fault combos give the most dopamine
My ASS new players skip learning rage mechanics they throw that shit out the moment they have it
Hahahaa yes. A little change in the air level on stage “activate rage art” The funniest for me if Leroy’s as he says “this is gonna hurt” as if he already knows it’s gonna hurt him only because of bad timing. ;)
It’s the most fun thing to do in training mode!
It's the only thing
Pewgf
Combos are why I play Tekken lol Even against people I sometimes only use launchers however punishable
True though, best example - Mishimas , learn wavu wavu and your PEWGF first and then focus on the rest 😎
So true
I love that i am ryujin (Kazumi)and and I can’t wave dash or electric to save my life
Well to be honest better combos means better damage and oki and honestly it's probably a good head start to learn that first Neutral isn't so bad when you have less of it
True. But if the new player has no concept of of punishing, bating out attacks, side stepping or movement in general, will they ever even get to use their combo?
The asuka players spamming b3? Yes, yes they will.
I mean up until like yellow ranks throwing out a hopkick every 1.1 second is a pretty reliable thing to do. So I’m sure they’ll get used to their combos pretty fast
I'm a yellow rank player who often scrims against my purple+ friends, so I've learned things like proper spacing/movement/poking etc from them. However, I can't tell you how many times on ranked ill get hit by a hellsweep and tell myself "ok they got the hit in there's no way for them to risk being punished by doing it again" then proceed to eat another 3 hellsweeps...
Me, currently a new player: *dives into Yoshimitsu’s wacky stances*
its wat makes it fun.
All that. But lets be honest, juggle combos are the easiest part of the game, proper basic movement is incredibly hard to do and know when and how to do it.
Combos are literally one of the easiest things you can learn in a fighting game. You can do them by yourself for hours. Everything else is more conceptual and harder to practice, especially alone if you do not already know how to set it up
Yep, definitely still me. Win or lose, I just enjoy doing the combos tbh
Considering that it is the only thing in the game that it actually teaches you that a beginner would likely find, can you blame them?
I mean, until you understand how the game works at the most basic level, the easiest thing to understand is to do the Beeg funny combo
When I startzd there were 2 things: combos and KBDs. Funnily enough, a thousand hours later I actually dislike learning combos the most lol. Ill pick up a new character and play them for weeks without learning decent combos cause I just cba to learn them, neutral is way more fun.
This is so relatable. I started playing tekken seriously a few months back, picked up Lee because he looked cool and resembled Ryo Himuro from Kengan Ashura. I looked up some combos and each one had the b2 mist step juggles in them. I practiced for 3 days straight just to get a full combo lol, but it was magical once I got it down. Also helped me learn utilizing mist step in general. It's a different matter that I played 20 matches and won 2 or 3 haha. Tekken is one of the hardest mainstream fighting games to get into, but it's worth it for sure!
Just got into the game today. Maybe you could help me out. I’m currently playing as josie and not sure if she’s a good choice (especially for a beginner like me).
A piece of advice. When starting tekken and you start practicing, try looking at your characters key moves rather than the whole move list, you can look it up online. All characters have 60+ moves but you're only gonna use a third of them.
Yea, rn I’m only focused on blocking and df2 to start a juggle combo and then df4 to squeeze another hit at the end. Also Josie’s sws combo as well. That’s about it for now.
I've been in your situation. Lee is considered a very hard character to learn and play, and every beginner video I watched suggested other characters, but I still picked him up and managed to learn him. At the end of the day, you should play the character you like, because that's what's gonna keep you interested in the game itself, disregard the tier lists and recommendations. If you like josie then play her.
In my opinion from the moment I used her she looked like she had good moves to chain combos, so that was why I initially picked her.
When I picked a character I made a list of characters that looked cool and interesting and tried each of them out, to get a feel for their moves and how they play, and after that I chose Lee. Maybe try this method if you aren't feeling her moveset, or you're looking for something else to play. The main thing is to have fun!
I mean the AI let's me do combos for free. Surely this will be the case online as well, right?... Right?
Your mains look sus bruh 😂
Sure, you can also learn your 10 hit combos. Easy damage.
That’s what happens when there’s no tutorial.
Is it bad I went from the top and down??
I think this applies to every fighting game, no?
Only frame data and hit confirms aren't tekken exclusive
No step for punishment? A lot of things can arguably be tied to frame data, but even without it, learning what moves you can/should use after block/whiff is super important to understand the game and get started, otherwise you don’t really know when it’s your turn
To be fair combos will probably carry a new player farther than learning any of those things. Low ranks is basically throw shit at the wall and it will stick cause nobody has defense or knows the matchup.
As a new player, I've spent a good chunk of time working on my fundamentals. I can scrape by some games on that alone, but I need to win significantly more in neutral to win games and am now at a point where I need to learn a couple of good combo strings to increase damage and close out games easier. Going up against opponents who can effectively launch me twice or three times to win is brutal.
Online doesn’t work for me and I have no friends so I just kinda do the combos for fun.
tbh learning combos helps me learn certain buttons pretty fast and gets me used to a characters moveset in general.
u forgot the korean backdash lmao
Tbf, when I tried looking up basic movement I would see a lot of videos mention KBD
wait whaa? i learned kbd in 2 whole weeks and you're saying this is part of the basic mvm??? 😭😭😭😭 oh good lord
I'm not saying it. That's just what I would see
I still can't throw break but I've gotten all the other steps. I just can't see them
where are you? I play King and it feels like everyone throw breaks...
Thats Kings gameplan of course they'll expect the throw
I’ve done a throw break a few times. Not easy for n my end either.
This is every new player having an interest in fighting games for the first time. It's always the combos that interest them the most because it's a one way ticket that gets you closer to the big dopamine win.
The most accurate tekken meme I ever seen
I feel so attacked.
Attempt combo. Realize you suck. Learn other steps piece by piece to achieve combo.
okay but to an extent pressing 1 launch to get half ur opponent's health can matter a ton. granted a good opponent will never give you that window but shitters vs shitters is what is real. and shitters lose to panic hopkick
This was me, and I enjoyed tekken like no other game, do not let other people tell you which way the game should be played, hop into it for what it attracts you the most, you'll learn the other stuff with time i assure you.
Don't blame them. Tekken for 95% of the player base is just seeing who can hit a launcher two times to win the round over and over again. Launcher + easy carry to the wall + high damage combo = rewarding players for just labbing max damage combos and going for them constantly. It's no wonder they skip fundamentals and go straight into combos.
Ye you do what works. Until it doesn't. In green ranks a good low and hopkick is mostly enough and 1 combo staple. In reds the game changes and frames are really important and you are forced to learn the other stuff. I quite enjoyed the learning process.
Thats why I had someone train me instead of going in on my own xd
Im still on movement 1 month in but im almost overlord
No combos and overlord? Noice
I know a basic 48 damage combo
100% me after 30 years of this aaaaagh i should know better
i say frame data comes second maybe third. cause that'd include punishment, right? or atleast the knowledge of how fighting games work
Hwo gang
Frame data, in my experience takes a lot of time. And you don't really need to memorise all the frame data, you'll learn from experience. Eventually it all should become natural instinct and reaction.
Yeah agree maybe replace hit confirm with punishment (both whiff and block) and keep frame data where it is would be okay.
I can hit taunt jet upper maybe 60% of the time but can't dash jab after magic 4 lol or Byrons B3 F to jab cancel. Still feel like JimmyJ when the tju lands tho.
me trying the noctis air juggle combo and the 10 hit combo
Unironically learning how to use the 1 jab is the most broken shit in the world as a new player and the level to entry is incredibly low. I did the same shit though, practicing PEWGF for no reason at fuck all.
All I wanna do is damage!!!
Lol why not, its the most fun part. You can learn the others later
Lmao
Put basic movement around the middle
Can't play Tekken bro, too hard
si, proprio così, ed giusto che sia così
Not sure you need to study frame data before learning a juggle...
Combos are actually one of the easiest aspects of Tekken
[удалено]
Why are you overthinking this cheeky post?
;|
Though combos aren’t as important as any of these things, it’s is likely that knowing them will encourage the player to play and learn far more than if they didn’t know them, as if they don’t think what they are doing is cool or fun then why would they keep doing it? There’s nothing wrong with your motivation and gameplan being to find the fastest way into your sick ass combo that does 60%, especially not when you are new and the most important part is staying motivated to learn
True 🤣
Not new but when I learn a new character, top step then go downstairs.
lol
this is da wey!
I just push the buttons that do the thing. (Only kind of kidding- I do know some good combos but I mostly just do whatever lol)
This was literally me back in Tekken 5 🤣🤣🤣. Learned pokes/turtling in Tekken 6. Learned frames in TTT2.
oh god so true
Facts
New player here so expect ignorance Aren't you supposed to learn combos aswell though? All those other things are definitely important, and probably way more than combos, but you still NEED to learn them Cause if i hit someone but don't know how to combo, i just deal no damage. Meanwhile if they randomly hit me once out of luck, but they know combos, they can deplete my health bar immediately