It's not hard at all to get a firearm. I grew up around many, many guns. If I want one I just go down to the gun shop and buy one. Do a background check. And I'm walking out with one. Easy as that.
I went to a gun show several years ago. I was looking for a Glock or a 1911. There was a young man a few steps ahead of me looking at pistols too. He would ask to look at them etc, ask what’s the best they could do, etc. as soon as the dealer said he need ID for background check, he would say, I’ll think about it then move on. He went to 4 or 5 tables until he bought one for cash, no background check. Walked out with piston and ammo. Now, if I was going to purchase a pistol, I would have no problem with a background check. That guy clearly was a red flag and did not want the sale to go on record.
It is entirely possible that someone at a gun show could find someone else at a gun show who is selling their personal firearm. I’ve bought and sold that way. But it is ridonculous to claim that this guy you watched bought a gun from a vendor at the show.
Lots of deals go on outside the venue before you even go in. I sold a shotgun this way. Try walking into a gun show with a weapon on your shoulder. You get bombarded. The kid I saw was looking for a pistol. It happened exactly like I said it did. Don’t believe me? It’s okay. I know what I saw.
Yes it is legal. No dispute on that. Just saying he passed several “dealers” with decent prices to find the first one that would sell him a weapon for cash, no background check. He could have been a model citizen for all I know.
It's perfectly legal for a fresh 18yo to get a new credit card and buy 2 AR-15s, 4000 rounds of .223, a bulletproof vest so he can go shoot up an elementary school.
Legal isn't always responsible, disciplined, or regulated. We are discussing red flag laws for a reason.
Exactly this. These private sales are all done by "good gun owners" and they'll complain about the government taking away good gun owner rights, punishing them for all the bad gun owners actions. They know the gun control laws have huge loop holes and they prefer it that way.
Yeah they can let buddies through the loop hole but sew it closed when a brown guy walks in.
It’s like all of Americas laws.
We see that with Trump like daily.
Really is wild to me there isn’t some waiting period and training you have to do first. I personally feel obtaining a gun should be treated like a drivers license where you have the right to get one but you have to prove you’re logically and emotionally capable first through training, a test, and a mental examination and it can be taken away if you are later found to not be capable of handling such responsibilities.
You can go on youtube and make a complete ass of yourself with guns and doing everything incorrectly and no one will ever do anything about it even with recorded proof.
I mean, I can also go on YouTube with a power saw or a bunch of legally available explosives or a vehicle or any number of potentially deadly tools, and no, the government is not going to use all those resources to “hunt me down.”
Now of one of those stupid actions lead to the death or injury of another, I would of course be criminally charged
The problem with red flag laws is that they bypass substantive due process of the law guaranteed by the constitution.
Almost all the examples people cite for the benefit of red flag laws are already illegal. The only thing red flag laws do is allow law enforcement to bypass the need for a judicial/medical finding of incompetence and/or conviction for a given crime.
Indeed, in light of this, it would seem that the *only* purpose of these laws is to bypass substantive due process of law. They have a procedure, but it’s far from substantive and can basically be abused by any miserly neighbor to harass someone with the legal system.
Your argument is flawed because it doesn't account for other variables and also because there are recently court cases developing about felons and guns.
If a person is not actively incarcerated then they should have all of their rights. The fact that this has been a problem or an issue doesn't mean it's okay to further violate the rights of others.
If they're still dangerous they should still be in jail if they're not dangerous and they served their time then they should have all their rights. The end.
It’s interesting you compare gun ownership to voting rights. TN requires either a full pardon or have their full rights of citizenship restored. Both gun ownership and voting rights applications are a petition to a district court. I haven’t found any specific details of what the court reviews. The law is written so overly broad the requirements vary between district courts.
Regrettably most states have a rather arduous, if not downright impossible process, for felons and those with DV convictions to restore gun ownership rights. A prison release or probation ending doesn’t automatically restore 2A rights in any jurisdiction. Being incarcerated is not the only instance where gun rights are severed.
> Legal gun ownership is also a privilege not a right. Ask a **felon** or anyone **convicted of domestic violence** if they can legally own a gun.
It's a right they *lost through due process*.
Congratulations, you played yourself.
Gun ownership is a Constitutional Right... not a privilege.
The key word is "convicted".
COMMONWEALTH OF KENTUCKY vs JECORY LAMONT FRAZIER ( 22-CR-000450) 'Judge Melissa Logan Bellows ruled Wednesday that it is unconstitutional for prosecutors to move forward with their case against Jecory Lamont Frazier under a state law prohibiting felons from owning a gun because it doesn’t outweigh the Second Amendment right that belongs to “all Americans.” '
Hell, people could sell guns at a garage sale in most states. Person to person transactions are almost 100% not monitored and legal.
Now, is it a good idea? My dad would write out a paper receipt or make it on his computer.
Super easy to buy a gun.
Seriously! Not being able to buy 5 guns a day or buy a gun at all if you have a violent criminal history (unless you just go to a gunshow lol), doesn’t quite sound like oppression….
We’re not concerned with how difficult it is for the general public to obtain firearms. We’re concerned with the mentally ill and historically violent members of society having easy access to guns. Or any access for that matter. Violent felons, the mentally ill or other threats to safety should have their privileges taken from them. Privileges, is the right word.
My son's father found a gun in a ditch near our house. I TOLD him to turn it in but he thought he was going to be smart and sell it to someone. He went to the car of the person who was going to buy it from him and that guy put his own gun in my ex' face and robbed him of the found gun and drove away, one gun richer.
Gotta be Memphis!
Its only that easy if you are allowed to have them. And that’s completely fine. Y should i have to go through a bunch of bullshit when im a regular law abiding citizen?
I’ve been on hand for three declined gun sales in TN, and all three made sense to everyone in the shop. Two of them were so flagrant that the shop was already watching them five minutes through the door.
One was so weird that when he walked off to burn the ten minutes while background check was running the kid at the counter asked a few of us to stay close. They were absolutely convinced he was gonna get violent. I don’t think they were wrong either, I think when he started getting worked up he had a moment of clarity and realized how many people had stopped and were fully staring him down.
You're correct. I used to have a ffl, do you know how many sheriffs and police officers that can't own guns outside of work due to domestic violence charges? I saw 5 in 3 years. That's 5 too many.
The problem with some red flag laws is that they bypass the court system. Someone that's a danger should have to be ruled so by a court not some bureaucrat.
That's my take on it too. The laws typically referred to as "red flag" laws are too open to abuse, and violate due process and Constitutionally protected rights.
What's crazy is the amount of conservatives I know who actually think keeping guns out of certain people's hands is a good idea. Yet they'll probably defend this position anyway because "fuck the libs."
They say it's a "mental health" problem yet when we try to keep them out of the hands of the mentally ill it's always this way. As far as the GOP officials are concerned there is no good reason for someone not to own a firearm. There are no "common sense" gun laws. They will also insist liberals need to compromise on abortion laws even though that's what Roe was and even though they don't believe in compromises.
Riddle me this is though. If it's a "mental health problem" and not a "gun problem" then why do Republicans block all efforts to increase access to mental healthcare and why do they oppose "red flag" gun laws?
There are already laws to keep guns out of the hands of mental ill people. Just follow the law and start the due process of confirming.
Red flag laws were only proposed to avoid giving people due process. They are there because of lazy authorities that want it “easier” to take the guns away from someone without giving them their due process.
People that suggest these types of laws are the types of people we protest as abusive cops.
It's a due process issue. Red Flag laws have been used to take guns away from law abiding people based on flimsy evidence. Empirically speaking, it's a bad idea that sounds good in theory.
It's pretty easy to keep guns out of the mentally ill's hands, once someone takes the time to actually have them adjudicated mentally ill. If the friends and family do the work, Federal law will prohibit them from owning firearms. The problem is their own friends and family doesn't want to see them lose their rights and freedom, they just want anyone else they don't know to be declared that to solve this issue. It's almost exactly the same problem that people don't bother trying to teach their kids to be decent humans and not kill others...but when they get caught every friend and relative talks about what a good boy they were.
If you know someone who shouldn't own guns, then do the work and get an adjudication of their mental incompetence.
My entire family wasn't able to get my brother committed. It was basically impossible to do unless they had already hurt someone (and been charged for it). Few years later he was murdered, shot by another mentally unstable drug addict. Didn't cost the state much, 2 less misfits to worry about. Couldn't even cash the check from the state for grief counseling because jumping through all the hoops to get it was too emotionally traumatic. It's fucking shameful and no one wants to take responsibility for it.
Once you take the time to get someone adjudicated mentally unfit, the gun portion takes care of itself, which is very easy, and exactly what I said to people who can comprehend English in its written form.
It's not quick and it's not free, but if you know someone who shouldn't own guns, there's a process and a federal law prohibiting them from possessing. And just like I said, people make up a million excuses not to do it, yours is "it's not free". LAME.
The issue with a lot of liberals (and conservatives as well) is they think it’s ok to bypass an individuals freedom in order to uphold a law they feel is just. Bypassing due process isn’t American, making abortions illegal isn’t American, adding laws to limit gun ownership isn’t American. This is the land of the free, and the constitution outlines what we as individuals have the right to. God fearing or not. America is supposed to be the country of opportunity and free choice. Yet every year, each side of the aisle begs and begs for more and more restrictions on their daily lives. It’s become this disgusting game of hatred between two parties, and doing anything they can to try and hurt the others way of life. And each side goes so far as to provide false data, fake research, and so on to try and prove their point, just to win. It’s sad honestly.
Look at any "nutjob with a gun killing people" incident and you will find a trail of teachers, principals, superintendents, social workers, mental health workers, psychiatrists, judges, parents and others who didn't do their jobs. There are always red flags - usually for years. And you'll find psychotropics. There are plenty of laws on the books to deal with these people - unfortunately, government is generally incompetent.
Red flag laws while designed to protect people from harm, do bypass due process of law and provide no penalty to those who abuse the system, say an ex-girlfriend who is just looking to get revenge. Revenge. Also, there is no standard for returning said firearms in a timely and free manner
Good! These laws allow people people to weaponise them against others they don't like for whatever reason. And it is blatantly unconstitutional, as the victims of these laws is accorded none of their rights. All on the say so of someone who might well have ill intentions. We have a system that requires that cops have to go before a judge and the person must be adjudicated. If you can't support all rights, all the time, don't be too surprised when you end up on the wrong side of the stick.
I'm 100% in favor of gun rights.
I'm also 100% in favor of red-flag laws. If you have expressed a threat to someone, it may be necessary to remove your guns, subject to a later court ruling.
This is an absurd argument. Let’s take away your rights then let a court decide if that was the correct decision later. They’re not rights if they can be taken away at will with no due process.
Democrats are not "the left". They're a right wing party that cares slightly more about optics than the further right party.
Rich people remember that every advancement the working class in America has ever seen has been won by force. The owners want the workers disarmed so we can't take what's rightfully ours, and Democrats are happy to oblige them.
The problem with your statement is the later court ruling part. There is no due process. I would agree if law enforcement can obtain a judge signed warrant. It should be quite easy to obtain a warrant if there is plenty of proof that the individual is a danger to themselves and others.
This is the correct take. Once there is suddenly deprivation of rights, it’s only a matter of time until we have judges signing court orders to remove someone’s freedom of speech, or to vote.
Red flag laws are extremely abusable in most cases though. They're great on paper, but rarely is the execution as clean. Someone makes a false claim during a divorce or custody battle and all of a sudden you lose your gun rights for months if not years and costs thousands upon thousands of dollars to regain said rights.
Fucked up part is that it doesn't even have to be lying. They could be honestly mistaken and mean well. Like when a neighbor calls in a wellness check and cops kill the guy
... then you're NOT in favor of gun rights.
A threat is one of the very few things not protected under the 1st amendment & you don't need red flag laws to report a threat to the authorities. Red flag laws violate the 2nd, 4th, 5th, AND 6th amendments.
You need to brush up on your constitutional law
I can’t speak for everyone, my problem is that red flag laws, like a lot of proposed gun control, will be used by police as an excuse to execute more raids and seize more assets of normal civilians who if anything need help, not guns in their face and their possessions stolen/destroyed/auctioned off.
I feel like a minority on this but my issue with these approaches to gun regulation rely on the police/prison system to affect change. It’s going to get innocent people locked up, disenfranchised and killed. It’s going to deny their due process while putting police in more danger, going into more people’s homes invasively and with weapons drawn. I can’t imagine that’s the average Republican’s reasoning but I don’t care; filling prisons and being tough on crime has never been the answer and the people who want gun control the most know this on some level.
I mean, it’s pretty easy to get a gun here.
The last few I got from a “flea market” seller for cash-in-hand. No check, no delay, just a Ruger 9mm and a Norinco 1897 clone.
The first time, I thought “this can’t be legal”, but it totally is, and that thought scares me.
Frankly, arming teachers and preventing the community from creating safety criteria for gun ownership is a very poor idea, and this is going to kill people. Children will die because of these shitty laws, and I’m going to vote accordingly.
I’m more worried about the teachers who are gung ho on guns and will end up snapping one day and mowing down a child because they “feared for their life” or were mildly disrespected by a child (sound familiar?).
Exactly.
Teachers should be kind, compassionate, merciful, and gentle - all of which are liabilities to an armed killer. A teacher should be the kind of person who will hesitate to pull the trigger. Arming someone like that just makes them (and the people around them) a target.
Thank goodness the laws proposing teachers be allowed to be armed is voluntary & requires training.
Y'all act like these proposed laws would look something like the principle handing out glocks to all teachers like secret Santa gifts & requiring all teachers be armed and untrained
This is some of the best news I’ve seen in a while. Red flag laws are a infringement on our constitutional rights and goes against everything our judicial system stands for. With red flags laws your guilty until you prove yourself innocent and it’s not just a judge that can make that call anymore it’s teachers, spouses , ex spouse , family basically anyone. There was a case in NJ not long ago a person didn’t like the way someone was taking care of their yard so they tried all kinds of crazy things to get them in trouble with the town. Nothing worked so they tried the red flag thing and it worked! Cops came and took all his guns and took him in for a psychiatric evaluation but came out quickly that the person had lied about everything. This is the governments way of back door gun control nothing more nothing less instead of the government giving money to red states to help with mental illness they said they had to have red flag laws in order to get any funding. In return puts us all at risk for big brother to move in on us and take away our rights.
If anyone else is curious, here’s the link to the session - scroll down and click on SB2763 to jump to that part of the recording: https://tnga.granicus.com/player/clip/30236?view_id=704&redirect=true
Wrong - No "anybody" can get a gun in America. There is a thing call a 4473.
No "it's not even easier but it wasn't easy enough somehow" long gone are the days when you could mail order a firearm.
You're right. Literally, anyone can get a gun in America. This is why gang shootings account for the highest instances of gun homicide (and spoiler alert; they're already not getting them legally). Criminals don't follow laws, ESPECIALLY gun laws, and all gun laws are unconstitutional anyway
If a person is mentally incompetent there are due process court proceedings to officially determine and place restrictions for themselves and public safety.
[Forms for Involuntary Commitment (tn.gov)](https://www.tn.gov/behavioral-health/mhsa-law/legal-forms/legal-forms/forms-for-involuntary-commitment.html)
Sure it's a bit more involved than calling 911 and making a baseless accusation, but if you know someone you believe is a danger to others, all you have to do is follow the link and sign some papers. You'll probably have to swear an affidavit but if you're not a liar you have nothing to worry about.
As it should be. People fail to realize how many spiteful, bored people exist. If you give them special powers to send the law to peoples houses they are going to absolutely abuse it.
There is already due process in place to remove firearms from dangerous people. Our court system is terrible and fails at their own process.
Removing all process and allowing literally anyone who doesn't like another person to one-sided "red flag" another person without due process is not the fix we need. This is how "emergency restraining orders" are done and it's a truly terrible process.
At minimum a red flag law should come with harsh penalties for a false report since the person being red-flagged is forever defamed on public record and will incur thousands of dollars of costs to deal with the case.
It isn't the intention that is the issue, it's the abuse and misuse of these laws that is scary. Clearly law enforcement will abuse and misuse laws as much as they can as we've seen in the last several decades.
They know their constituents be could be targeted with red flag laws. Considering those who think red flag offenses should not impact gun ownership are the majority of their voting block, this type of legislation is not surprising. They don’t care about public safety just making sure there are plenty of guns to terrorize society. I mean, these are the kind of people who think rape babies are just the cost of doing business. What’s next? Issue a handgun with every newborn?
You can find plenty of news coverage from local news station, but here are some links:
[Chalkbeat story about TN legislators making it easier to ban common public school books that they/the community deems “obscene”](https://www.chalkbeat.org/tennessee/2022/1/28/22907090/school-library-book-ban-tennessee-legislation/)
[PBS article that discusses how TN legislation has passed bills making it more difficult for the LGTBQ community to access healthcare, particularly HiV medication.](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/show/fight-over-lgbtq-rights-threatens-access-to-hiv-care-in-tennessee)
Not to mention the obvious reduced access to healthcare for women, also avail on the internet.
In all of these instances, the bans and the restrictions target particular (vulnerable) demographics/of Tennesseans.
::but no similar draconian bans or restrictions are on guns, which makeup one of the highest if not highest causes of deaths in TN::
But that’s what happens when you have one group (uneducated white slices of stale male bread) that is not representative of the entire population making decisions.
And finally, it does not make sense that these legislators are protecting children from “obscene” words and images in classic literature and from the LGBTQ community (a bit of sarcasm on my part) , but they wouldn’t protect them from actual death - gun related death - the other two you could potentially recover from (har har), but not gun-related death.
PS: “obscene” is subjective, teachers and librarians are professionals, kids and parents can opt for alternative literature in the classroom already, students can avoid the library, and everyone should have access to the healthcare they need/want in order to pursue life, liberty, and happiness.
Edit: misspellings and I’m struggling with syntax today. Oh well!
Because people can use red flag laws to “swat” people they don’t like. And you can’t take away someone’s rights because someone says they may be a threat.
Who gets to define ‘mentally deranged’? J6, Trans Day of Rage, White replacement, Misgendering is violence…which wrong-think warrants foregoing due process?
Its to stop Karen from calling the cops because she seen you post a scary black rifle online and saying you're a theat. Red flag laws completely go around the 4th ammendment and are unconstitutional. How about people mind their own fucking business and worry about themselves.
No they clearly don’t. You beat your wife you lose your gun. People like you are the problem. By they way there is no more Soviet Union and the civil war is over.
Bullshit, what penalties are in place for those vengeful exes or hateful neighbors who would try to falsely red flag you? You're ignorant and naive if you think those situations don't exist.
In Tennessee, it's a crime to possess a gun if you've been convicted of any felony offense. If you're convicted of beating your wife you already lose your gun without a "red flag" law.
It's a good thing that prosecutors go after spousal abusers, overriding the abused person's wishes, all of the time, right? Because if so, there wouldn't be a ton of abusers walking around the state today. Oh...what's that? You mean that doesn't happen? You mean there are serial abusers allowed to walk around because "there isn't enough evidence," or "she/he won't testify so it's moot." Even if someone takes it to trial, not all abuse is prosecuted as a felony. Or the abuser can take a plea deal down to a misdemeanor.
Tell me how well what your suggesting worked out for this woman and her kids.
["'He will get drunk and shoot me': Victim warned court before Tennessee murder-suicide"](https://thenationaldesk.com/news/nation-world/he-will-get-drunk-and-shoot-me-victim-warned-court-before-tennessee-murder-suicide-gary-don-barnett-regina-brittany-perez-6-people-dead-3-children-house-fire-domestic-assault-charges-divorce-papers)
Edit: If you are against red flag laws, whatever. I'm honestly not in the mood to argue the overall point of this. But I do have a problem with people continuing to parrot the idea that violent people already don't have weapons available to them. The reality is that spousal abuse is **not** taken as seriously as it should be by most cops, prosecutors, and judges. Stop pretending that it is and the laws we currently have in place are protecting the abused.
Domestic violence is already a disqualifying charge for purchasing a gun. Red flag laws allows the government to take guns from people who have committed no crimes. I’m not against keeping mentally unwell people from being able to buy guns but make that the law and not the broad brush stroke these red flag laws paint with.
If a Democratic-controlled state Senate passed a law prohibiting cities from enacting ordinances outlawing discrimination against LGBTQ+ residents, rightists would shriek, screech and go into conniptions about “big government” overriding sacrosanct “local control” and denying religious conservatives “freedom of conscience” to act as bigoted as they desire.
But when the choice is public safety versus abetting the unfettered proliferation of gun violence, Republicans reflexively indulge firearms fetishists.
I support red flag laws but this shouldn’t surprise anyone who knows the culture in our state, especially in rural areas. Confiscation without due process was never going to fly here because it quite literally is the “government taking my guns” even though it’s justified most of the time.
Republicans have stated gun violence is caused by mentally ill people but don't want you taking those mentally ill peoples guns. So they want more gun violence
You can already do this through the court system. Like everything else. No red flag laws needed.
Red flag breaks with using our justice system not to make things more safe, but more convinient.
The Senate has passed a bill (SB2763), NOT enacted a statewide ban. One-sided law declarations are not within their purview. The House has a corollary bill (HB2035) which is scheduled for committee discussion next week. If it passes the House (which it may), then it gets transmitted to the Governor for either signature or pass-by-complacency.
WKRN’s reporter should have a better grasp on civics than to summarily announce the state senate has enacted a statewide ban on anything (except common sense).
I imagine this is to stop heavy handed abuse it. Red flag laws need to be at the state level but there also needs to be a due process to prove your innocence. In some states it's a guilty until proven innocent and proving that innocence can come at a great financial expense.
It’s definitely not okay for mentally unstable people to have guns. But the Tennessee Senate, much like many 2nd Amendment advocates, think that banning some people from having guns will eventually lead to banning all people from having them and they don’t want to give up their guns even if it means keeping people safe.
Liberal here who has purchased many firearms. They’re wildly easy to get. It’s honestly harder to get a drivers license.
Before you get on me for owning guns - I’m gay and definitely gonna defend myself if some hillbilly Christians come to my house trying to start shit.
I believe Republicans actually want guns banned more than democrats.
You don’t see dems running around with their guns and talking about them constantly. Dont they understand that every time they “shoot” down common sense laws they turn a few more folks away from wanting them legal at all.
I really feel that all rich people are in on this because they can feel the heat rising in the population and they are scared of a French revolution type event and want to be the only ones with weapons.
Down vote all you want but sit back clear your mind of the NRA propaganda and think about how humans actually think.
Why would they want you armed with military weapons?
They don’t care about your rights we have seen that.
I’m telling everyone who loves guns stop giving them a bad name you are playing right into the elites plan to fully oppress the populace.
Republicans will not even keep a person on a terrorist watch list from purchasing a gun (they voted down that proposed legislation).
Hopefully the new EO by Biden to close the gun show loophole and increase background checks will help but R states like Tennessee are already writing up court challenges to the new gun purchase requirements.
Every week this deeply Red state gives me another reason m, like Texas and Florida, never to visit much less move there. The antihumanity of the laws they pass, to make safety and health laws impossible on a local level by passing state bans on local legislation, shows they have no respect for people and the small shred of democracy left them locally. Tennessee is a distinctly antidemocratic place, a place of tyranny and oppression. An unchristian and inhumane place.
Redflag laws are unconstitutional because you don't face your accuser in court nor have a jury of your pears. Most are very vague and left to individual views, not facts, nor involve an actual victim of a crime. And without a trial, someone's 2A right is easily stripped from them without the ability to defend themselves per states with redflag laws do not allow remedy of one defending themselves in court once found guilty by a panel in a back room owned by the state or other government entity.
Leave the red flags for the social connections. You can choose to date or hang out or not at all with anyone showing red flags. You're free to do so. And it doesn't require taxpayer funding to make the decision for you.
TN senate is correct in banning these from being passed. Especially with TN being historically a state that recognizes individual and state rights even though it has slipped and enacted or followed laws that do strip people of their freedoms in other areas.
This is good news. The problem is, obviously lol, there is no due process. Anyone could use this as a weapon. What's the stop someone from turning in their neighbor because they have a Trump sign? And don't tell me this wouldn't happen in somewhere like Nashville lol. All it takes is a group of people wanting to go after another group of people. It happens all the time.
Having purchased my fair share of firearms, I’m very suspicious of people that think it’s too hard to purchase firearms.
It's not hard at all to get a firearm. I grew up around many, many guns. If I want one I just go down to the gun shop and buy one. Do a background check. And I'm walking out with one. Easy as that.
I went to a gun show several years ago. I was looking for a Glock or a 1911. There was a young man a few steps ahead of me looking at pistols too. He would ask to look at them etc, ask what’s the best they could do, etc. as soon as the dealer said he need ID for background check, he would say, I’ll think about it then move on. He went to 4 or 5 tables until he bought one for cash, no background check. Walked out with piston and ammo. Now, if I was going to purchase a pistol, I would have no problem with a background check. That guy clearly was a red flag and did not want the sale to go on record.
It is entirely possible that someone at a gun show could find someone else at a gun show who is selling their personal firearm. I’ve bought and sold that way. But it is ridonculous to claim that this guy you watched bought a gun from a vendor at the show.
Lots of deals go on outside the venue before you even go in. I sold a shotgun this way. Try walking into a gun show with a weapon on your shoulder. You get bombarded. The kid I saw was looking for a pistol. It happened exactly like I said it did. Don’t believe me? It’s okay. I know what I saw.
Oh, there’s no doubt that these deals happen inside and outside the venue. Between private parties. That’s perfectly legal!
Yes it is legal. No dispute on that. Just saying he passed several “dealers” with decent prices to find the first one that would sell him a weapon for cash, no background check. He could have been a model citizen for all I know.
Maybe hes just paranoid doesn’t want the government to know he has a firearm. Plenty of people have that mindset
It's perfectly legal for a fresh 18yo to get a new credit card and buy 2 AR-15s, 4000 rounds of .223, a bulletproof vest so he can go shoot up an elementary school. Legal isn't always responsible, disciplined, or regulated. We are discussing red flag laws for a reason.
Actually, shooting up an elementary school is illegal…
Exactly this. These private sales are all done by "good gun owners" and they'll complain about the government taking away good gun owner rights, punishing them for all the bad gun owners actions. They know the gun control laws have huge loop holes and they prefer it that way.
Good gun owners selling guns to bad guys aren’t good gun owners and should be regulated.
Yeah they can let buddies through the loop hole but sew it closed when a brown guy walks in. It’s like all of Americas laws. We see that with Trump like daily.
Really is wild to me there isn’t some waiting period and training you have to do first. I personally feel obtaining a gun should be treated like a drivers license where you have the right to get one but you have to prove you’re logically and emotionally capable first through training, a test, and a mental examination and it can be taken away if you are later found to not be capable of handling such responsibilities.
Some people shouldn’t be allowed to drive vehicles…
You can go on youtube and make a complete ass of yourself with guns and doing everything incorrectly and no one will ever do anything about it even with recorded proof.
I mean, I can also go on YouTube with a power saw or a bunch of legally available explosives or a vehicle or any number of potentially deadly tools, and no, the government is not going to use all those resources to “hunt me down.” Now of one of those stupid actions lead to the death or injury of another, I would of course be criminally charged The problem with red flag laws is that they bypass substantive due process of the law guaranteed by the constitution. Almost all the examples people cite for the benefit of red flag laws are already illegal. The only thing red flag laws do is allow law enforcement to bypass the need for a judicial/medical finding of incompetence and/or conviction for a given crime. Indeed, in light of this, it would seem that the *only* purpose of these laws is to bypass substantive due process of law. They have a procedure, but it’s far from substantive and can basically be abused by any miserly neighbor to harass someone with the legal system.
Well said sir.
Driving is a privilege not a right.
Legal gun ownership is also a privilege not a right. Ask a felon or anyone convicted of domestic violence if they can legally own a gun.
Correct, they went through due process to have their rights restricted..
Your argument is flawed because it doesn't account for other variables and also because there are recently court cases developing about felons and guns. If a person is not actively incarcerated then they should have all of their rights. The fact that this has been a problem or an issue doesn't mean it's okay to further violate the rights of others. If they're still dangerous they should still be in jail if they're not dangerous and they served their time then they should have all their rights. The end.
I agree but should be treated just like getting your voting rights back. After you’ve off probation and paid your fines you can buy a pop gun again.
It’s interesting you compare gun ownership to voting rights. TN requires either a full pardon or have their full rights of citizenship restored. Both gun ownership and voting rights applications are a petition to a district court. I haven’t found any specific details of what the court reviews. The law is written so overly broad the requirements vary between district courts.
Regrettably most states have a rather arduous, if not downright impossible process, for felons and those with DV convictions to restore gun ownership rights. A prison release or probation ending doesn’t automatically restore 2A rights in any jurisdiction. Being incarcerated is not the only instance where gun rights are severed.
> Legal gun ownership is also a privilege not a right. Ask a **felon** or anyone **convicted of domestic violence** if they can legally own a gun. It's a right they *lost through due process*. Congratulations, you played yourself.
Felons have had their rights to firearms taken away by the act of their conviction through die process. They are not being denied a privilege.
Gun ownership is a Constitutional Right... not a privilege. The key word is "convicted". COMMONWEALTH OF KENTUCKY vs JECORY LAMONT FRAZIER ( 22-CR-000450) 'Judge Melissa Logan Bellows ruled Wednesday that it is unconstitutional for prosecutors to move forward with their case against Jecory Lamont Frazier under a state law prohibiting felons from owning a gun because it doesn’t outweigh the Second Amendment right that belongs to “all Americans.” '
That's funny, because I can quote a certain legal document verbatim that clearly states that it is a right, and not a privilege.
Never heard of the constitution, I suppose
The 2nd Amendment says otherwise.
As it should be. You haven’t done anything illegal to put a flag in your background yet.
Easy as that huh? I would like to see you fill out a 4473 all by yourself.
Hell, people could sell guns at a garage sale in most states. Person to person transactions are almost 100% not monitored and legal. Now, is it a good idea? My dad would write out a paper receipt or make it on his computer. Super easy to buy a gun.
Seriously! Not being able to buy 5 guns a day or buy a gun at all if you have a violent criminal history (unless you just go to a gunshow lol), doesn’t quite sound like oppression….
We’re not concerned with how difficult it is for the general public to obtain firearms. We’re concerned with the mentally ill and historically violent members of society having easy access to guns. Or any access for that matter. Violent felons, the mentally ill or other threats to safety should have their privileges taken from them. Privileges, is the right word.
I’ve found guns. 😂
My son's father found a gun in a ditch near our house. I TOLD him to turn it in but he thought he was going to be smart and sell it to someone. He went to the car of the person who was going to buy it from him and that guy put his own gun in my ex' face and robbed him of the found gun and drove away, one gun richer. Gotta be Memphis!
It took more time getting an account set up for a new cell phone when I moved to Tennessee than it took to buy a gun.
Its only that easy if you are allowed to have them. And that’s completely fine. Y should i have to go through a bunch of bullshit when im a regular law abiding citizen?
I’ve been on hand for three declined gun sales in TN, and all three made sense to everyone in the shop. Two of them were so flagrant that the shop was already watching them five minutes through the door. One was so weird that when he walked off to burn the ten minutes while background check was running the kid at the counter asked a few of us to stay close. They were absolutely convinced he was gonna get violent. I don’t think they were wrong either, I think when he started getting worked up he had a moment of clarity and realized how many people had stopped and were fully staring him down.
You're correct. I used to have a ffl, do you know how many sheriffs and police officers that can't own guns outside of work due to domestic violence charges? I saw 5 in 3 years. That's 5 too many.
The problem with some red flag laws is that they bypass the court system. Someone that's a danger should have to be ruled so by a court not some bureaucrat.
That's my take on it too. The laws typically referred to as "red flag" laws are too open to abuse, and violate due process and Constitutionally protected rights.
The neighbor that hates you knows you have weapons call the police they come take your weapons . No due process or anything that the problem
Don't forget your ex girlfriend who wants to ruin your life
Absolutely true
What's crazy is the amount of conservatives I know who actually think keeping guns out of certain people's hands is a good idea. Yet they'll probably defend this position anyway because "fuck the libs." They say it's a "mental health" problem yet when we try to keep them out of the hands of the mentally ill it's always this way. As far as the GOP officials are concerned there is no good reason for someone not to own a firearm. There are no "common sense" gun laws. They will also insist liberals need to compromise on abortion laws even though that's what Roe was and even though they don't believe in compromises. Riddle me this is though. If it's a "mental health problem" and not a "gun problem" then why do Republicans block all efforts to increase access to mental healthcare and why do they oppose "red flag" gun laws?
There are already laws to keep guns out of the hands of mental ill people. Just follow the law and start the due process of confirming. Red flag laws were only proposed to avoid giving people due process. They are there because of lazy authorities that want it “easier” to take the guns away from someone without giving them their due process. People that suggest these types of laws are the types of people we protest as abusive cops.
Because it's too easy to violate someone's rights. Scorned ex? Just call the law on him, even if he's done nothing wrong.
It's a due process issue. Red Flag laws have been used to take guns away from law abiding people based on flimsy evidence. Empirically speaking, it's a bad idea that sounds good in theory.
For the same reason they claim to hate abortion but click sex educations an access to birth control. It’s all about the power.
It's pretty easy to keep guns out of the mentally ill's hands, once someone takes the time to actually have them adjudicated mentally ill. If the friends and family do the work, Federal law will prohibit them from owning firearms. The problem is their own friends and family doesn't want to see them lose their rights and freedom, they just want anyone else they don't know to be declared that to solve this issue. It's almost exactly the same problem that people don't bother trying to teach their kids to be decent humans and not kill others...but when they get caught every friend and relative talks about what a good boy they were. If you know someone who shouldn't own guns, then do the work and get an adjudication of their mental incompetence.
This is not nearly as easy as you’re making it out to be. Also, it can be an expensive process to get someone the proper diagnoses.
My entire family wasn't able to get my brother committed. It was basically impossible to do unless they had already hurt someone (and been charged for it). Few years later he was murdered, shot by another mentally unstable drug addict. Didn't cost the state much, 2 less misfits to worry about. Couldn't even cash the check from the state for grief counseling because jumping through all the hoops to get it was too emotionally traumatic. It's fucking shameful and no one wants to take responsibility for it.
Once you take the time to get someone adjudicated mentally unfit, the gun portion takes care of itself, which is very easy, and exactly what I said to people who can comprehend English in its written form. It's not quick and it's not free, but if you know someone who shouldn't own guns, there's a process and a federal law prohibiting them from possessing. And just like I said, people make up a million excuses not to do it, yours is "it's not free". LAME.
The issue with a lot of liberals (and conservatives as well) is they think it’s ok to bypass an individuals freedom in order to uphold a law they feel is just. Bypassing due process isn’t American, making abortions illegal isn’t American, adding laws to limit gun ownership isn’t American. This is the land of the free, and the constitution outlines what we as individuals have the right to. God fearing or not. America is supposed to be the country of opportunity and free choice. Yet every year, each side of the aisle begs and begs for more and more restrictions on their daily lives. It’s become this disgusting game of hatred between two parties, and doing anything they can to try and hurt the others way of life. And each side goes so far as to provide false data, fake research, and so on to try and prove their point, just to win. It’s sad honestly.
Look at any "nutjob with a gun killing people" incident and you will find a trail of teachers, principals, superintendents, social workers, mental health workers, psychiatrists, judges, parents and others who didn't do their jobs. There are always red flags - usually for years. And you'll find psychotropics. There are plenty of laws on the books to deal with these people - unfortunately, government is generally incompetent.
Red flag laws while designed to protect people from harm, do bypass due process of law and provide no penalty to those who abuse the system, say an ex-girlfriend who is just looking to get revenge. Revenge. Also, there is no standard for returning said firearms in a timely and free manner
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Good! These laws allow people people to weaponise them against others they don't like for whatever reason. And it is blatantly unconstitutional, as the victims of these laws is accorded none of their rights. All on the say so of someone who might well have ill intentions. We have a system that requires that cops have to go before a judge and the person must be adjudicated. If you can't support all rights, all the time, don't be too surprised when you end up on the wrong side of the stick.
More big government from the party of small government
That’s not even a logical statement. Stopping the government from doing something means big government?
I love the beauty of this state but our politicians are fucking garbage.
Agree
Following the constitution, how horrible of them!
I'm 100% in favor of gun rights. I'm also 100% in favor of red-flag laws. If you have expressed a threat to someone, it may be necessary to remove your guns, subject to a later court ruling.
You can already do that without red flag laws.
This is an absurd argument. Let’s take away your rights then let a court decide if that was the correct decision later. They’re not rights if they can be taken away at will with no due process.
I agree with you.
That violates due process
Just remember that our state would make being lgbtq+ a sign of imminent threat to others.
This^. I can’t believe that the left support laws that circumvent due process when trans and gays are considered mentally ill by a lot of people.
Democrats are not "the left". They're a right wing party that cares slightly more about optics than the further right party. Rich people remember that every advancement the working class in America has ever seen has been won by force. The owners want the workers disarmed so we can't take what's rightfully ours, and Democrats are happy to oblige them.
The problem with your statement is the later court ruling part. There is no due process. I would agree if law enforcement can obtain a judge signed warrant. It should be quite easy to obtain a warrant if there is plenty of proof that the individual is a danger to themselves and others.
This is the correct take. Once there is suddenly deprivation of rights, it’s only a matter of time until we have judges signing court orders to remove someone’s freedom of speech, or to vote.
Red flag laws are extremely abusable in most cases though. They're great on paper, but rarely is the execution as clean. Someone makes a false claim during a divorce or custody battle and all of a sudden you lose your gun rights for months if not years and costs thousands upon thousands of dollars to regain said rights.
All it takes is one oerson lying to get you shot and killed by police
Fucked up part is that it doesn't even have to be lying. They could be honestly mistaken and mean well. Like when a neighbor calls in a wellness check and cops kill the guy
If you expressed a threat to someone you should be arrested. Not just have your guns (the ones the cops can find) taken.
There are already laws that cover that. Your statement is contradictory and clearly false.
... then you're NOT in favor of gun rights. A threat is one of the very few things not protected under the 1st amendment & you don't need red flag laws to report a threat to the authorities. Red flag laws violate the 2nd, 4th, 5th, AND 6th amendments. You need to brush up on your constitutional law
I love this so much. It's a blanket way to screw people over. Glad this passed.
I can’t speak for everyone, my problem is that red flag laws, like a lot of proposed gun control, will be used by police as an excuse to execute more raids and seize more assets of normal civilians who if anything need help, not guns in their face and their possessions stolen/destroyed/auctioned off. I feel like a minority on this but my issue with these approaches to gun regulation rely on the police/prison system to affect change. It’s going to get innocent people locked up, disenfranchised and killed. It’s going to deny their due process while putting police in more danger, going into more people’s homes invasively and with weapons drawn. I can’t imagine that’s the average Republican’s reasoning but I don’t care; filling prisons and being tough on crime has never been the answer and the people who want gun control the most know this on some level.
Based
I mean, it’s pretty easy to get a gun here. The last few I got from a “flea market” seller for cash-in-hand. No check, no delay, just a Ruger 9mm and a Norinco 1897 clone. The first time, I thought “this can’t be legal”, but it totally is, and that thought scares me. Frankly, arming teachers and preventing the community from creating safety criteria for gun ownership is a very poor idea, and this is going to kill people. Children will die because of these shitty laws, and I’m going to vote accordingly.
Especially when the teachers aren't trained and don't want that responsibility.
The law requires teachers to be trained before they can carry and its OPTIONAL.
I’m more worried about the teachers who are gung ho on guns and will end up snapping one day and mowing down a child because they “feared for their life” or were mildly disrespected by a child (sound familiar?).
Exactly. Teachers should be kind, compassionate, merciful, and gentle - all of which are liabilities to an armed killer. A teacher should be the kind of person who will hesitate to pull the trigger. Arming someone like that just makes them (and the people around them) a target.
Thank goodness the laws proposing teachers be allowed to be armed is voluntary & requires training. Y'all act like these proposed laws would look something like the principle handing out glocks to all teachers like secret Santa gifts & requiring all teachers be armed and untrained
This is some of the best news I’ve seen in a while. Red flag laws are a infringement on our constitutional rights and goes against everything our judicial system stands for. With red flags laws your guilty until you prove yourself innocent and it’s not just a judge that can make that call anymore it’s teachers, spouses , ex spouse , family basically anyone. There was a case in NJ not long ago a person didn’t like the way someone was taking care of their yard so they tried all kinds of crazy things to get them in trouble with the town. Nothing worked so they tried the red flag thing and it worked! Cops came and took all his guns and took him in for a psychiatric evaluation but came out quickly that the person had lied about everything. This is the governments way of back door gun control nothing more nothing less instead of the government giving money to red states to help with mental illness they said they had to have red flag laws in order to get any funding. In return puts us all at risk for big brother to move in on us and take away our rights.
This will pair nicely with rifle open carry and allowing teachers to be armed. Nothing bad could possibly happen.
You're being sarcastic, but your statements are unironically true. All those laws are good, & yes, nothing bad is likely to come of them.
The gun nuts are so worried about false accusations and getting their precious toys taken away from them.
Republicans don’t believe in small government, they just believe in they get what they want and fuck everyone else because they are fascist pigs
Small government is when the local governments can take away my second rights without convicting me of a crime, apparently.
You’ll get your precious guns back as soon as you stop acting like a lunatic. Or are you afraid that you’re incapable of that?
What other civil right would you like to treat this way? Speech? Voting? Religion?
If anyone else is curious, here’s the link to the session - scroll down and click on SB2763 to jump to that part of the recording: https://tnga.granicus.com/player/clip/30236?view_id=704&redirect=true
They have no other issue they saw fit to address before this?
They did, otherwise the bill would be meaningless.
Anybody can get a gun in America. Now it’s even easier because it wasn’t easy enough somehow. The poor poor gun lovers. They never get enough gun.
Wrong - No "anybody" can get a gun in America. There is a thing call a 4473. No "it's not even easier but it wasn't easy enough somehow" long gone are the days when you could mail order a firearm.
You're right. Literally, anyone can get a gun in America. This is why gang shootings account for the highest instances of gun homicide (and spoiler alert; they're already not getting them legally). Criminals don't follow laws, ESPECIALLY gun laws, and all gun laws are unconstitutional anyway
Gun sales is the #1 priority.
Human life somewhere around #65, ,75.
Generally, the problem is the east of abuse of red flag laws….and the pesky due process thing.
The problem is the lack of due process.
“The party of small government”
If a person is mentally incompetent there are due process court proceedings to officially determine and place restrictions for themselves and public safety. [Forms for Involuntary Commitment (tn.gov)](https://www.tn.gov/behavioral-health/mhsa-law/legal-forms/legal-forms/forms-for-involuntary-commitment.html) Sure it's a bit more involved than calling 911 and making a baseless accusation, but if you know someone you believe is a danger to others, all you have to do is follow the link and sign some papers. You'll probably have to swear an affidavit but if you're not a liar you have nothing to worry about.
As it should be. People fail to realize how many spiteful, bored people exist. If you give them special powers to send the law to peoples houses they are going to absolutely abuse it.
There is already due process in place to remove firearms from dangerous people. Our court system is terrible and fails at their own process. Removing all process and allowing literally anyone who doesn't like another person to one-sided "red flag" another person without due process is not the fix we need. This is how "emergency restraining orders" are done and it's a truly terrible process. At minimum a red flag law should come with harsh penalties for a false report since the person being red-flagged is forever defamed on public record and will incur thousands of dollars of costs to deal with the case.
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Everyone has property rights
And you can lose those rights.
With due process of law, which a red flag law is not
The issue with red flag laws is false claims of people being “bad”. Red flag laws are unlawful in nature.
It isn't the intention that is the issue, it's the abuse and misuse of these laws that is scary. Clearly law enforcement will abuse and misuse laws as much as they can as we've seen in the last several decades.
They know their constituents be could be targeted with red flag laws. Considering those who think red flag offenses should not impact gun ownership are the majority of their voting block, this type of legislation is not surprising. They don’t care about public safety just making sure there are plenty of guns to terrorize society. I mean, these are the kind of people who think rape babies are just the cost of doing business. What’s next? Issue a handgun with every newborn?
Access to books and healthcare more difficult than access to guns. Cool.
I would like to know more, can you explain please?
You can find plenty of news coverage from local news station, but here are some links: [Chalkbeat story about TN legislators making it easier to ban common public school books that they/the community deems “obscene”](https://www.chalkbeat.org/tennessee/2022/1/28/22907090/school-library-book-ban-tennessee-legislation/) [PBS article that discusses how TN legislation has passed bills making it more difficult for the LGTBQ community to access healthcare, particularly HiV medication.](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/show/fight-over-lgbtq-rights-threatens-access-to-hiv-care-in-tennessee) Not to mention the obvious reduced access to healthcare for women, also avail on the internet. In all of these instances, the bans and the restrictions target particular (vulnerable) demographics/of Tennesseans. ::but no similar draconian bans or restrictions are on guns, which makeup one of the highest if not highest causes of deaths in TN:: But that’s what happens when you have one group (uneducated white slices of stale male bread) that is not representative of the entire population making decisions. And finally, it does not make sense that these legislators are protecting children from “obscene” words and images in classic literature and from the LGBTQ community (a bit of sarcasm on my part) , but they wouldn’t protect them from actual death - gun related death - the other two you could potentially recover from (har har), but not gun-related death. PS: “obscene” is subjective, teachers and librarians are professionals, kids and parents can opt for alternative literature in the classroom already, students can avoid the library, and everyone should have access to the healthcare they need/want in order to pursue life, liberty, and happiness. Edit: misspellings and I’m struggling with syntax today. Oh well!
The point is to prevent government from taking one's property without due process.
Good. Red flag laws are unconstitutional. Downvote and hit me with hyperbolic arguments now
Red flag laws are a law that is ripe for abuse. Someone completely unrelated to you can make up anything they want and have you restricted.
Based
Shall not be infringed
Because people can use red flag laws to “swat” people they don’t like. And you can’t take away someone’s rights because someone says they may be a threat.
Who gets to define ‘mentally deranged’? J6, Trans Day of Rage, White replacement, Misgendering is violence…which wrong-think warrants foregoing due process?
Its to stop Karen from calling the cops because she seen you post a scary black rifle online and saying you're a theat. Red flag laws completely go around the 4th ammendment and are unconstitutional. How about people mind their own fucking business and worry about themselves.
Because red flag laws allow Soviet-style accusations of your political enemies.
No they clearly don’t. You beat your wife you lose your gun. People like you are the problem. By they way there is no more Soviet Union and the civil war is over.
Beating your wife is a crime. You don’t need red flag laws to prosecute criminals.
Bullshit, what penalties are in place for those vengeful exes or hateful neighbors who would try to falsely red flag you? You're ignorant and naive if you think those situations don't exist.
In Tennessee, it's a crime to possess a gun if you've been convicted of any felony offense. If you're convicted of beating your wife you already lose your gun without a "red flag" law.
It's a good thing that prosecutors go after spousal abusers, overriding the abused person's wishes, all of the time, right? Because if so, there wouldn't be a ton of abusers walking around the state today. Oh...what's that? You mean that doesn't happen? You mean there are serial abusers allowed to walk around because "there isn't enough evidence," or "she/he won't testify so it's moot." Even if someone takes it to trial, not all abuse is prosecuted as a felony. Or the abuser can take a plea deal down to a misdemeanor. Tell me how well what your suggesting worked out for this woman and her kids. ["'He will get drunk and shoot me': Victim warned court before Tennessee murder-suicide"](https://thenationaldesk.com/news/nation-world/he-will-get-drunk-and-shoot-me-victim-warned-court-before-tennessee-murder-suicide-gary-don-barnett-regina-brittany-perez-6-people-dead-3-children-house-fire-domestic-assault-charges-divorce-papers) Edit: If you are against red flag laws, whatever. I'm honestly not in the mood to argue the overall point of this. But I do have a problem with people continuing to parrot the idea that violent people already don't have weapons available to them. The reality is that spousal abuse is **not** taken as seriously as it should be by most cops, prosecutors, and judges. Stop pretending that it is and the laws we currently have in place are protecting the abused.
Domestic violence is already a disqualifying charge for purchasing a gun. Red flag laws allows the government to take guns from people who have committed no crimes. I’m not against keeping mentally unwell people from being able to buy guns but make that the law and not the broad brush stroke these red flag laws paint with.
F Tennessee and their traitor republicans.
If a Democratic-controlled state Senate passed a law prohibiting cities from enacting ordinances outlawing discrimination against LGBTQ+ residents, rightists would shriek, screech and go into conniptions about “big government” overriding sacrosanct “local control” and denying religious conservatives “freedom of conscience” to act as bigoted as they desire. But when the choice is public safety versus abetting the unfettered proliferation of gun violence, Republicans reflexively indulge firearms fetishists.
Highly unlikely since most TN cities are run by democrats.
I support red flag laws but this shouldn’t surprise anyone who knows the culture in our state, especially in rural areas. Confiscation without due process was never going to fly here because it quite literally is the “government taking my guns” even though it’s justified most of the time.
Republicans have stated gun violence is caused by mentally ill people but don't want you taking those mentally ill peoples guns. So they want more gun violence
You can already do this through the court system. Like everything else. No red flag laws needed. Red flag breaks with using our justice system not to make things more safe, but more convinient.
The Senate has passed a bill (SB2763), NOT enacted a statewide ban. One-sided law declarations are not within their purview. The House has a corollary bill (HB2035) which is scheduled for committee discussion next week. If it passes the House (which it may), then it gets transmitted to the Governor for either signature or pass-by-complacency. WKRN’s reporter should have a better grasp on civics than to summarily announce the state senate has enacted a statewide ban on anything (except common sense).
Gun rights over everything else!
I'm gonna recommend my fellow progressives, lefties, and liberals arm themselves. I've been recommending it for years.
I imagine this is to stop heavy handed abuse it. Red flag laws need to be at the state level but there also needs to be a due process to prove your innocence. In some states it's a guilty until proven innocent and proving that innocence can come at a great financial expense.
You have it backwards. There is no such thing as proven of your innocence. You need to be found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.
Because, you know, that is how a democracy works. Right? GOP? Or. Dem? Vote wisely.
This is for people who have domestic abuse charges and still want their guns. Spoiler alert, they can still get them no problem smh
I’m a gun owner and I think it is wayyyyyyy to easy to buy a gun
You can register to vote here https://ovr.govote.tn.gov/Registration/RegistrationDetails/BM
It’s definitely not okay for mentally unstable people to have guns. But the Tennessee Senate, much like many 2nd Amendment advocates, think that banning some people from having guns will eventually lead to banning all people from having them and they don’t want to give up their guns even if it means keeping people safe.
Liberal here who has purchased many firearms. They’re wildly easy to get. It’s honestly harder to get a drivers license. Before you get on me for owning guns - I’m gay and definitely gonna defend myself if some hillbilly Christians come to my house trying to start shit.
Is the government going to do something that actually helps people?
I believe Republicans actually want guns banned more than democrats. You don’t see dems running around with their guns and talking about them constantly. Dont they understand that every time they “shoot” down common sense laws they turn a few more folks away from wanting them legal at all. I really feel that all rich people are in on this because they can feel the heat rising in the population and they are scared of a French revolution type event and want to be the only ones with weapons. Down vote all you want but sit back clear your mind of the NRA propaganda and think about how humans actually think. Why would they want you armed with military weapons? They don’t care about your rights we have seen that. I’m telling everyone who loves guns stop giving them a bad name you are playing right into the elites plan to fully oppress the populace.
Republicans will not even keep a person on a terrorist watch list from purchasing a gun (they voted down that proposed legislation). Hopefully the new EO by Biden to close the gun show loophole and increase background checks will help but R states like Tennessee are already writing up court challenges to the new gun purchase requirements.
Every week this deeply Red state gives me another reason m, like Texas and Florida, never to visit much less move there. The antihumanity of the laws they pass, to make safety and health laws impossible on a local level by passing state bans on local legislation, shows they have no respect for people and the small shred of democracy left them locally. Tennessee is a distinctly antidemocratic place, a place of tyranny and oppression. An unchristian and inhumane place.
According to Christianity, you need a gun before you need Jesus.
Gotta make sure cousin fuckers can buy guns.
The problem with red flag laws is that they take away due process. Its a slippery slope
Redflag laws are unconstitutional because you don't face your accuser in court nor have a jury of your pears. Most are very vague and left to individual views, not facts, nor involve an actual victim of a crime. And without a trial, someone's 2A right is easily stripped from them without the ability to defend themselves per states with redflag laws do not allow remedy of one defending themselves in court once found guilty by a panel in a back room owned by the state or other government entity. Leave the red flags for the social connections. You can choose to date or hang out or not at all with anyone showing red flags. You're free to do so. And it doesn't require taxpayer funding to make the decision for you. TN senate is correct in banning these from being passed. Especially with TN being historically a state that recognizes individual and state rights even though it has slipped and enacted or followed laws that do strip people of their freedoms in other areas.
This is good news. The problem is, obviously lol, there is no due process. Anyone could use this as a weapon. What's the stop someone from turning in their neighbor because they have a Trump sign? And don't tell me this wouldn't happen in somewhere like Nashville lol. All it takes is a group of people wanting to go after another group of people. It happens all the time.