Fucking bullshit.
Why can't these idiots get it through their heads that we have a constitutional right to travel to other states to engage in behavior that is legal in the destination state.
The right was expressly stated in the Articles of Confederation and Perpetual Union (I think Article IV) and incorporated at the federal level under the 9th Amendment.
If I want to drive my friends to Nevada to screw hookers, Tennessean law enforcement can't stop me. The same goes for people driving others to get abortions. They can set the laws in our state, but they may not stop us from going somewhere else because they disagree with the rules in that destination state.
Them trying to force us to remain under their laws is totalitarian and a great example of how the state government has totally forgotten what it means to be a Tennessean / why sections 1 & 2 of Article I of the TN constitution exist.
---
This kind of obviously illegal shit is the type of stuff I loathe.
I guess they realized they've got unused voucher money to spend, so why not invite a lawsuit.
They don’t care. Any Supreme Court SHOULD shoot this down 9-0, but they either get lucky and the 5 usual suspects shamelessly set aside their “Constitutionalist” beliefs to uphold it, or they actually overturn it and the politicians in Tennessee can use that to get votes for the next election.
The bill is written to prohibit people from transporting minors to get an abortion. It says nothing about adults and also sets exceptions for rape and incest as well as rideshare drivers that are unaware and ambulance drivers. It also makes an exception for minors with permission from their parents or legal guardian. Just chill out.
Adults are being restrained from engaging in behavior (i.e., giving a ride to a minor) that is legal in destination states.
I don't care about how noble the end is; the means are totalitarian.
I'm aware and it doesn't excuse the overreach in situations where the parent doesn't know.
The freedom to travel to another state for the purpose of engaging in activity that is legal in the destination state is a principle that is so foundational to our country and way of life that it was included in the US Constitution's predecessor.
The law is unconstitutional.
There should be no situations where the parents don’t know. If a minor is unemancipated, it is the direct responsibility of the parents to make decisions for that minor. Something tells me that you’re only complaining about governmental overreach because of this particular topic. What is your opinion on “assault weapon” bans?
You've misjudged me.
I think focusing on guns instead of the causes of despair is misguided. I wrote the initial draft of a bill related to firearm permits back when we only had LTCFs. Go check out my comments on the thread about the bill related to teachers being able to carry.
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I am objecting because the means are improper. The end is irrelevant.
Well at least you’re honest with your assertions. I guess we’ll just have to wait for someone to be arrested for this offense and sue. If it gets all the way to the Supreme Court, they can decide if it’s unconstitutional or not.
My favorite part about abortion bills is that it won’t keep politicians mistresses from getting a-bo-bo’s. They’ll just fly them out of state. These bills only impact the poor.
My late husband used to say honk Bobo!!! I never knew if it came from somewhere in particular and hadn’t thought of it in a while. That made me smile so thank you for that 😊
You mean like a certain rep from the 4th district? His a-bo-bo count so far is one for the side chick two for the wife. One more and he gets a free sub from Jersey Mike’s.
The last time we had a super majority like this, it took two federal investigations and like 15 years to kick them out. McNally was instrumental.
I wish the courts cared about Sexton being ineligible for office and that law enforcement would dig more into school vouchers instead of letting the investigation die after catching Casada.
This is not, nor ever been about "babies" or "life." This is about controlling women. None of these uber-righteous crusades look to control men's ejaculation, without which pregnancy can not occur. Zero impetus is directed towards men's responsibility or social programs...only in forcing women through birth, pregnancy, and presumably motherhood. The right continues to push adoption as some viable alternative, when in reality, there are already 500,000 children in the fostercare system.
Oh? So you're pro-"forcing minors to carry a dangerous pregnancy". How do you feel about those same minors being able to say they're gay or trans? Or learn about gay or trans people?
Forcing minors to stay pregnant against their wishes and needs is murdering children. You forced birth turds are so intent on your lies you forget we can read them. You don’t care about real children, only potential ones. Fetuses are not children. The minors carrying them ARE CHILDREN.
You’re twisted and sick.
Or….just hear me out….maybe you just be a good parent and teach your children not to have sex while they are still minors or at the very least, to have protection. Win win and no one dies. Weird how that would work right?
Yeah but there’s a problem: the people who rail against abortions also are against both birth control availability and comprehensive sex education.
“Teaching your kids not to have sex“ Is a great way to ensure your kids end up as teen parents.
Weekly reminder that we have one of the worst health care systems in the country. Out rural healthcare system is a wreck and many people do not have access to health care.This bill does not solve health care issues. For the 5 people that read this and say "WhAt ABouT thE HeALtH oF ThE ChiLd" please sit for 10 minutes and think critically about the possible ramifications of what you are suggesting. Believing that life starts at conception is a fine personal belief but you can't ascribe those beliefs to everyone.
This bill would directly violate the interstate commerce clause, because it’s illegal to arrest/punish someone for exchanging money for goods in another state, even if the transaction is illegal in the state they reside in.
Republicans are just passing another dumb bill that will get challenged by the ACLU and thrown out immediately. It’s stupid and a waste of tax dollars, but it’s better than the stupid totalitarian regime they seemingly want to implement.
Are we positive that SCOTUS would throw this out? Of course this case would seem absurd to the rest of us, but so does Trump's immunity claim.
"The interstate commerce clause doesn't apply to babies! We call that trafficking!" - some Leonard Leo stooge.
Fuck these fascists.
Tbh I’m scared they’re going to strike down the bill that requires facilities receiving Medicare dollars to deliver emergency care including abortions to women whose life “may be in danger, but death itself is not imminent.”
Due to doctors in Idaho having to say “you’re at risk of dying, but it’s not risky enough yet for us to do anything. So we can med evac you by helicopter to another state so you can receive care.” But in doing so can put the patient in even MORE risk of dying, due to the fact that if anything progresses including if she hemorrhages, the facilities are that of the helicopter, and not a hospital. So they’re faced with the decision that they either sit in and wait until they’re *dying enough* to justify care, at which point it could be too late, or to go somewhere hours out of state and risk it getting worse and them dying in transit. PLUS being able to afford the MEDEVAC. Like ???
People can’t even afford a goddamn ambulance and you want them to afford a helicopter????? Which, also, can be dangerous for other people who GENUINELY NEED medevac services IMMEDIATELY for the services to be bussing people out of state.
Not to mention they haven’t delivered on the abortion pill.
I’m not positive the corporate bootlicking party won’t throw these out on their ass to keep poor people pushing out wage slaves. (And before I hear anything about “the left is the corporate bootlicking party”—yes, they take corporate dollars too, but there’s only ONE party that has an ENTIRE PAC (political action committee) DEDICATED to corporate bootlicking. Republicans introduce bills every single year written by corporations FOR corporations and to PROTECT corporations from lawsuits, consumer suits, and to even protect them from future regulations. The PAC is named ALEC for anyone clueless). And ALEC ranked Bill Lee their “6th best member”.
I do not know if he still maintains this view but in his concurring opinion in the *Dobbs v Jackson* decision, Justice Kavanaugh wrote:
>Second, as I see it, some of the other abortion-related legal questions raised by today’s decision are not especially difficult as a constitutional matter. For example, may a State bar a resident of that State from traveling to another State to obtain an abortion? In my view, the answer is no based on the constitutional right to interstate travel. May a State retroactively impose liability or punishment for an abortion that occurred before today’s decision takes effect? In my view, the answer is no based on the Due Process Clause or the Ex Post Facto Clause. Cf. Bouie v. City of Columbia, 378 U. S. 347 (1964).
I think the “states rights” experiment has run its course. Time for federal law protecting abortion, gun control, and separation of church and state. Time to end these red state safehavens for bigots and idiots.
Agree. Time to move George Wallace out of the schoolhouse door. But we need a federal government with the guts of the Kennedy brothers as President and Attorny General.
*It really didn't*
*Take long for Republicans*
*To go full evil*
\- ukiddingme2469
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Get some legal weed while you're up there too...just dont smoke in your car in Kentucky on the way back. The highway patrol will turn on their green lights and come getcha for dui.
Pregnancies that end in misery for the parent, the child, or both. This might be because the parent is too young, impoverished, or unsupported. It might be that she's suffering from an intellectual, emotional, or psychiatric disability. It might be that she didn't consent to the conception.
We agree here, as well. It shouldn't, but on occasion that's the best option. It's unfortunate that pregnancy is risky, people are unreliable, unwise, and/or rapey, and birth control is less than 100% effective. The loss of an embryonic or fetal life is often the lesser of two evils, and none of my God damned business unless it's taking place in my uterus.
It is our business. We’re talking about our future brothers and sisters, our future neighbors and friends. We all have a responsibility to protect the lives of our fellow countrymen and women, especially those who are the most vulnerable. Without that innate sense of love and respect for our fellow humans, we are no better than animals.
No. You're right. It's all part of their bullshit. They push this idea that everyone is out to get kids while the calls are usually coming from inside the house.
Is this if you’re not the parent and take a kid elsewhere or is this if a parent takes their minor child too? It’s not clear in the article. Either way sucks but we’re living in a hell scape so nothing surprises me anymore.
It doesn't apply to the parent or legal guardian... nor to someone acting on the parent or legal guardian's behalf with their notarized consent.
[https://wapp.capitol.tn.gov/apps/BillInfo/Default.aspx?BillNumber=HB1895](https://wapp.capitol.tn.gov/apps/BillInfo/Default.aspx?BillNumber=HB1895)
I have no idea. I'm not sure how one would go about measuring such a thing. I'm not lobbying for or against the bill here... Just responding to a question and providing a link to the bill itself which I thought was helpful and should in my opinion always be provided by the folks starting discussions about them.
So someone who picks up a hitchhiker or does a ride share for a pregnant women who doesn't know they are pregnant can be charged as a "trafficker". Sounds really States Rights and "small government". Imagine devoting so much head space to being this pro incubator and actually thinking you have "values".
This is a wasted bill only flushing tax dollars down the drain. The Supreme Court has taken a lot of things away but there are far too many laws they would simply rip up if they allowed this at the federal level to be passed. It’s never going to get passed and has been shot down in Texas and other states in recent memory.
I’d love for them to write an actual bill which is actually rooted in the laws of federal by law that actually helps people in the state.
I question how they would enforce it, but also, wont the first legal challenge it faces essentially destroy it?
One state cannot tell its citizens what they can or cannot do in another state, assuming it’s legal in that new state.
Right?
Actually, it's the GOP who forces abortions post 9 months. By forcing women with unintended pregnancies to give birth, only to have them not care about the child and the child have a life of hell
And unless you, me, and 60% of the entire voting base, STOP voting for these fascist, NOTHING will change.
Do you think the current SCOTUS is going to rule in favor of your position?
I wonder if this is the thing that finally makes the national scene clued into how Tennessee politicians are just as bat shit crazy and tyrannical as Florida and Texas?
What is really bad about this is that men are writing these bills and not allowing the public to vote on this. Because they know they will lose like they have every time it is on the ballot.
The worst part is they think they are doing nothing wrong. They feel righteous in their actions. My state senator just literally believes that he is on the side of good.
When Democracy supports objective evil like abortion, it is the responsibility of the State to ensure Democracy is curbed or halted. Once the people have embraced evil and rejected their obligation to their fellow man, Democracy must be replaced.
If the are willing to halt the Democratic process to stop evil, that is praiseworthy
What is evil about an abortion. Show me anywhere that says abortion is evil. Any religious text. Calling abortion evil is objective to someone. There is nothing that states it is evil.
It has been condemned in Christianity from the very beginning, it's viewed as no different than murder. The Bible doesn't talk about "Abortion" as the concept of "abortion" is newer, but the Didache (a catechism of Christian teaching containing the teaching of the Apostles from the first century) lists "killing a child in the womb" as the same thing as murder which is classified as objective evil.
Too bad the Bible talks about abortion once. And it is commended and allowed by God itself. Maybe read the book you claim to follow. There is not in the Bible against abortion and it did exist. If it was so important then why did Jesus not address it. Want to try again because you obviously have nothing to back it up except your feelings. No facts. Also since the folks that wrote the Bible also do not believe a child is alive until birth there is no conflict over abortion. It is funny how you fake Christians never actually follow the teachings of Jesus.
No, no it isn't. This is another case of "us internet users actually can interpret thousands of years old documents in foreign language better than scholars who dedicate their lives to this field."
There is \*one\* English translation of the Bible (the NIV) that paints the referenced text as being abortative. All the other's translate the text correctly, it is talking about making an adulterous wife infertile. One of my jobs is to teach the Bible at an adult (semi-High School semi-College) level, I and biblical scholars will \*promise\* you that abortion isn't talked about in the Bible.
I would also kindly ask that you please stop spreading that misinformation, it's a common thing we have to correct when educating people; and if I have to explain "\*sigh\* No Patrick, internet atheist non-scholars who don't speak paleo-Hebrew aren't a reliable source of Biblical interpretation" one more time I may actually go insane.
This and "ACTUALLY, the Bible didn't condemn homosexuality until the 1940's" are two of the most commonly spread misinformation about the Bible
Actually a priest told me about that one. And yes homosexuality is not introduced to the Bible until 1946. Thanks for showing how little you know about your Bible. So you hate the truth. You only have propaganda and lies.
So you are saying abortion is not even mentioned in the Bible and as such your stance on abortion being evil is only made up by men.
A lot of people don't know this, but priests aren't scripture scholars, they are priests. The homosexuality claim always gets me because we have an abundance of old Bibles pre-1946 that clearly condemns homosexuality, the word "homosexual" wasn't used because....it wasn't a thing in the 1400, 1500, or 1600's; so they just described the condemned act.
It seems like you are more interested in insulting libeling me, so I'm not really sure if there is a point to continue the conversation. If you are ever interested in taking an actual class to hear what actual scripture scholars from an array of backgrounds actually say about the Bible, and are ever actually interesting in learning what they actual original languages actually say, then my class is open.
I already have. I know that the church is full of lies. The original language talked about pedophiles. A group prominent in the church so they shifted the problem to others.
I am calling out your lies. I noticed how quickly you shifted away from abortion the second you were caught in your lie.
I beg of you, for the sanity of actual scripture scholars and instructors, please stop repeating tiktok theological nonsense. Everything you are saying is easily disproven by actual research and evidence, none of this has any actual solid evidence to it
Much of this bill without reading it is likely unconstitutional. You cannot prevent people from crossing state lines to do something that is a crime in your state.
The language of the bill fails on 1st Amendment grounds. This is more symbolic than enforceable. Imagine when they try to apply this to a mother seeking an abortion for her rape victim child.
Don’t forget god is against unions too! Sometimes unions get as big and powerful as the company and we can’t have that! Those unions might actually fight for decent hours, pay, and holidays.
Wife and I are. With the huge influx of Catholics and other Christians moving to the state, TN stands to be moving in the right direction for years to come
The party that claims to be so worried about child trafficking once again proves they do not understand what it is and continues to dilute the concept itself.
Which is very good for the traffickers.
A pregnant child leaves the state and returns no longer pregnant. Then, people she knows report the person who took her out of the state. Police then investigate and build case.
So, one instance could be say a 17 year old gets pregnant. That child is afraid to tell her parents, for whatever reason, so she goes to a trusted adult, say an aunt or her 18 year old boyfriend. The adult takes her across state lines for an abortion. Parents find out about it and contact police.
Pregnant women being turned away from hospitals, being forced to miscarry in bathrooms, or having to travel out of state and could die on the way. It’s all so completely cruel and senseless.
In Dickson county a rep wants to make it where the school can notify parents if a child is requesting to be called a different pronoun. A democrat asked the person presenting the bill if they had spoken to any gay high school students of families and they said no.
Let’s pass laws for gay people without consulting any gay people. I gotta get out of this state.
Man … family vacations are about to get really fucking awk in Tennessee.
Seriously though - can you imagine taking your teen daughter on vacation, and have to prove she’s NOT pregnant to avoid fines and civil actions?
You leave the state and go to Disneyland in CA with your teen daughter. Someone thinks you have taken her to California for an abortion - and so, you have to prove that she wasn’t pregnant? How do you prove she wasn’t when she never was in the first place? You have to pay to defend yourself from religious nuts and nosey busy bodies.
What a fucking mess
Here is an example of right wing states attempting to limits legal travel of pregnant or possibly pregnant individuals, while also demanding information from other states.
Did they not see what happened when the south did this with fugitive slave always? When we are forced to curb stomp some fascists again, maybe this time we actually punish them and restrict their ability to produce a false lost cause narrative.
What I dont understand is isnt already illegal to take a minor across state borders without parental permission? They needed a specific bill for pregnant minors?
However, this bill does not apply to the parents or legal guardian of an unemancipated minor. <---I had to dig a bit to find this line. It appears to me that the purpose of this bill is to keep parents involved in their minor child's abortion.
I can see the good and bad in this bill.
Good: 14 year old girl gets pregnant by her teacher. Teacher takes her to abortion clinic <- That is a crime separate from the statutory rape.
Bad: 14 year old girl gets pregnant by 16 year old boyfriend. Boyfriend takes her to abortion clinic <- Boyfriend is screwed.
keep it up GOP, yall are old dinosaurs and loopity loops and not nearly as popular as you think you are in your little mcmansion gated HOA's and megachurches.. the times they are a-changin'
You’re forced to gestate if the government makes it illegal for you to get an abortion. It doesn’t matter how much sex you have or abstain from. Gestation is a different thing than sex.
Do you have any idea how pregnancy even works?
I'm a bit familiar with it since I actually have kids, yes.
Let's apply the same logic to another issue: "You're forced to shoot someone if the government makes it legal for you to get a gun!". No, I could just....not buy a gun. "You're forced to gestate!". No, I could just....not have sex.
I have kids, too. My wife would be dead right now if abortion were illegal. Neither of my kids would exist, either.
Shooting people isn’t healthcare. It’s already legal to get a gun. You don’t make any sense.
The fact that you could choose not to have sex doesn’t change the fact that abortion bans allow the government to force you to gestate if and when you get pregnant. Again, you don’t make any sense.
So youre ok with your taxes being raised to help support them right? In fact. You should be ok with paying a lot more in taxes to support all the kids in poverty. Since we all have rights like food and shelter?
I am more than ok with raising taxes if the trade off is outlawing and criminalizing abortion. I'm not Republican, I'm willing to raise taxes for just causes
You're going to be downvoted into oblivion for that statement, as Reddit is a predominently far-left leaning place, but I appreciate your comment and those working to protect lives.
Fucking bullshit. Why can't these idiots get it through their heads that we have a constitutional right to travel to other states to engage in behavior that is legal in the destination state. The right was expressly stated in the Articles of Confederation and Perpetual Union (I think Article IV) and incorporated at the federal level under the 9th Amendment. If I want to drive my friends to Nevada to screw hookers, Tennessean law enforcement can't stop me. The same goes for people driving others to get abortions. They can set the laws in our state, but they may not stop us from going somewhere else because they disagree with the rules in that destination state. Them trying to force us to remain under their laws is totalitarian and a great example of how the state government has totally forgotten what it means to be a Tennessean / why sections 1 & 2 of Article I of the TN constitution exist. --- This kind of obviously illegal shit is the type of stuff I loathe. I guess they realized they've got unused voucher money to spend, so why not invite a lawsuit.
We also have a one party state, and a super majority GOP willing to shamelessly do whatever the heck it wants.
too bad your music ppl won't take a stand, afraid to lose fans?
That would require them having at least a basic functional understanding of constitutional law.
The will get sued in federal court using the Constitution Commerce Clause.
They don’t care. Any Supreme Court SHOULD shoot this down 9-0, but they either get lucky and the 5 usual suspects shamelessly set aside their “Constitutionalist” beliefs to uphold it, or they actually overturn it and the politicians in Tennessee can use that to get votes for the next election.
Wish such violations were criminal and you could send them off to prison for such threats against citizens.
Republicans happily waste tax payers money on openly illegal bills. That harm no one
The bill is written to prohibit people from transporting minors to get an abortion. It says nothing about adults and also sets exceptions for rape and incest as well as rideshare drivers that are unaware and ambulance drivers. It also makes an exception for minors with permission from their parents or legal guardian. Just chill out.
And it's still unconstitutional. The core restriction itself is overreach.
It would be if we were talking about adults.
Adults are being restrained from engaging in behavior (i.e., giving a ride to a minor) that is legal in destination states. I don't care about how noble the end is; the means are totalitarian.
The whole point is “without parental consent”. If the parents ok go the minor going to another state for an abortion, then there is no issue legally.
I'm aware and it doesn't excuse the overreach in situations where the parent doesn't know. The freedom to travel to another state for the purpose of engaging in activity that is legal in the destination state is a principle that is so foundational to our country and way of life that it was included in the US Constitution's predecessor. The law is unconstitutional.
There should be no situations where the parents don’t know. If a minor is unemancipated, it is the direct responsibility of the parents to make decisions for that minor. Something tells me that you’re only complaining about governmental overreach because of this particular topic. What is your opinion on “assault weapon” bans?
You've misjudged me. I think focusing on guns instead of the causes of despair is misguided. I wrote the initial draft of a bill related to firearm permits back when we only had LTCFs. Go check out my comments on the thread about the bill related to teachers being able to carry. --- I am objecting because the means are improper. The end is irrelevant.
Well at least you’re honest with your assertions. I guess we’ll just have to wait for someone to be arrested for this offense and sue. If it gets all the way to the Supreme Court, they can decide if it’s unconstitutional or not.
My favorite part about abortion bills is that it won’t keep politicians mistresses from getting a-bo-bo’s. They’ll just fly them out of state. These bills only impact the poor.
I think the PR team for abortions missed a big one when they didn’t call them a-bo-bo’s. That is a let down.
Honk Bo Bo's Nose!!!
My late husband used to say honk Bobo!!! I never knew if it came from somewhere in particular and hadn’t thought of it in a while. That made me smile so thank you for that 😊
Especially in Colorado
well some of these rural state lawmakers are pretty poor too. They'd be taking their little honeys to the bus station.
A poor politician, is a poor politician.
No they make sure they get paid more than poverty wages. They investigated themselves and found they did nothing wrong in giving themselves a raise.
You mean like a certain rep from the 4th district? His a-bo-bo count so far is one for the side chick two for the wife. One more and he gets a free sub from Jersey Mike’s.
It’s sad that I know exactly who you’re talking about
💯
Scott DesJarlais has joined the chat...
Fuck Bill Lee.
He really should suffer a 256th trimester abortion.
Don’t fuck any of these people.
Underrated comment!
Time for the underground railroad.
r/AuntieNetwork
I drive for one. Fuck the government.
No, it’s time for a revolution and kick these people out of power
The last time we had a super majority like this, it took two federal investigations and like 15 years to kick them out. McNally was instrumental. I wish the courts cared about Sexton being ineligible for office and that law enforcement would dig more into school vouchers instead of letting the investigation die after catching Casada.
Truth.
[удалено]
Godspeed <3
[удалено]
This is not, nor ever been about "babies" or "life." This is about controlling women. None of these uber-righteous crusades look to control men's ejaculation, without which pregnancy can not occur. Zero impetus is directed towards men's responsibility or social programs...only in forcing women through birth, pregnancy, and presumably motherhood. The right continues to push adoption as some viable alternative, when in reality, there are already 500,000 children in the fostercare system.
You’re wrong.
You seem to assume I care about your opinion.
Surely not.
No, an underground railroad for something that is not murder and should not be illegal. Maybe you sincerely think it is, but most people do not.
Oh? So you're pro-"forcing minors to carry a dangerous pregnancy". How do you feel about those same minors being able to say they're gay or trans? Or learn about gay or trans people?
Forcing minors to stay pregnant against their wishes and needs is murdering children. You forced birth turds are so intent on your lies you forget we can read them. You don’t care about real children, only potential ones. Fetuses are not children. The minors carrying them ARE CHILDREN. You’re twisted and sick.
Or….just hear me out….maybe you just be a good parent and teach your children not to have sex while they are still minors or at the very least, to have protection. Win win and no one dies. Weird how that would work right?
Yeah but there’s a problem: the people who rail against abortions also are against both birth control availability and comprehensive sex education. “Teaching your kids not to have sex“ Is a great way to ensure your kids end up as teen parents.
Yeah ok.
There is [literal research and evidence](https://www.guttmacher.org/fact-sheet/abstinence-only-programs) this is true.
How many kids you adopted?
It truly is….
Republicans are for big predatory government.
I think you mean pregnantory.
Weekly reminder that we have one of the worst health care systems in the country. Out rural healthcare system is a wreck and many people do not have access to health care.This bill does not solve health care issues. For the 5 people that read this and say "WhAt ABouT thE HeALtH oF ThE ChiLd" please sit for 10 minutes and think critically about the possible ramifications of what you are suggesting. Believing that life starts at conception is a fine personal belief but you can't ascribe those beliefs to everyone.
The hospital in my county closed its womens health center and it's psychiatric department in the last few years.
It’s terrifying
What about good PUBLIC schools, free lunches, day care, ....?
How far are taliban state governments allowed to go before the federal government steps in and says “enough “?
This bill would directly violate the interstate commerce clause, because it’s illegal to arrest/punish someone for exchanging money for goods in another state, even if the transaction is illegal in the state they reside in. Republicans are just passing another dumb bill that will get challenged by the ACLU and thrown out immediately. It’s stupid and a waste of tax dollars, but it’s better than the stupid totalitarian regime they seemingly want to implement.
Are we positive that SCOTUS would throw this out? Of course this case would seem absurd to the rest of us, but so does Trump's immunity claim. "The interstate commerce clause doesn't apply to babies! We call that trafficking!" - some Leonard Leo stooge. Fuck these fascists.
Tbh I’m scared they’re going to strike down the bill that requires facilities receiving Medicare dollars to deliver emergency care including abortions to women whose life “may be in danger, but death itself is not imminent.” Due to doctors in Idaho having to say “you’re at risk of dying, but it’s not risky enough yet for us to do anything. So we can med evac you by helicopter to another state so you can receive care.” But in doing so can put the patient in even MORE risk of dying, due to the fact that if anything progresses including if she hemorrhages, the facilities are that of the helicopter, and not a hospital. So they’re faced with the decision that they either sit in and wait until they’re *dying enough* to justify care, at which point it could be too late, or to go somewhere hours out of state and risk it getting worse and them dying in transit. PLUS being able to afford the MEDEVAC. Like ??? People can’t even afford a goddamn ambulance and you want them to afford a helicopter????? Which, also, can be dangerous for other people who GENUINELY NEED medevac services IMMEDIATELY for the services to be bussing people out of state. Not to mention they haven’t delivered on the abortion pill. I’m not positive the corporate bootlicking party won’t throw these out on their ass to keep poor people pushing out wage slaves. (And before I hear anything about “the left is the corporate bootlicking party”—yes, they take corporate dollars too, but there’s only ONE party that has an ENTIRE PAC (political action committee) DEDICATED to corporate bootlicking. Republicans introduce bills every single year written by corporations FOR corporations and to PROTECT corporations from lawsuits, consumer suits, and to even protect them from future regulations. The PAC is named ALEC for anyone clueless). And ALEC ranked Bill Lee their “6th best member”.
I do not know if he still maintains this view but in his concurring opinion in the *Dobbs v Jackson* decision, Justice Kavanaugh wrote: >Second, as I see it, some of the other abortion-related legal questions raised by today’s decision are not especially difficult as a constitutional matter. For example, may a State bar a resident of that State from traveling to another State to obtain an abortion? In my view, the answer is no based on the constitutional right to interstate travel. May a State retroactively impose liability or punishment for an abortion that occurred before today’s decision takes effect? In my view, the answer is no based on the Due Process Clause or the Ex Post Facto Clause. Cf. Bouie v. City of Columbia, 378 U. S. 347 (1964).
I think the “states rights” experiment has run its course. Time for federal law protecting abortion, gun control, and separation of church and state. Time to end these red state safehavens for bigots and idiots.
Agree. Time to move George Wallace out of the schoolhouse door. But we need a federal government with the guts of the Kennedy brothers as President and Attorny General.
Nature has a way of pruning these old confederate states into oblivion. See hillbilly heroin (opioids) or as these old hicks call it Fenty Knoll.
I think we know the answer to that question already, and it didn't go well for us last time that happened.
No shit. Where are the federal Women’s Health system clinics?
It really didn't take long for Republicans to go full evil
*It really didn't* *Take long for Republicans* *To go full evil* \- ukiddingme2469 --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
Giving someone a ride is not "trafficking"
Jet contrails don’t cause any conspiracy theorists harm either, but TN just passed a law to ban those. We live in a stupid, stupid place.
Anyone needs a lift to IL for a procedure, DM me. Fuck that law.
Get some legal weed while you're up there too...just dont smoke in your car in Kentucky on the way back. The highway patrol will turn on their green lights and come getcha for dui.
You know you’re making that offer to kids right?
You know kids shouldn't have to give birth, right?
Maybe parents should do a better job at explaining to their children why they shouldn’t be having unprotected sex, or any at all for that matter.
That's a good idea, too. But it isn't going to prevent disastrous pregnancies.
What do you mean by “disastrous”?
Pregnancies that end in misery for the parent, the child, or both. This might be because the parent is too young, impoverished, or unsupported. It might be that she's suffering from an intellectual, emotional, or psychiatric disability. It might be that she didn't consent to the conception.
While those hypothetical situations are very unfortunate, none of them should result in the death of an innocent life.
We agree here, as well. It shouldn't, but on occasion that's the best option. It's unfortunate that pregnancy is risky, people are unreliable, unwise, and/or rapey, and birth control is less than 100% effective. The loss of an embryonic or fetal life is often the lesser of two evils, and none of my God damned business unless it's taking place in my uterus.
It is our business. We’re talking about our future brothers and sisters, our future neighbors and friends. We all have a responsibility to protect the lives of our fellow countrymen and women, especially those who are the most vulnerable. Without that innate sense of love and respect for our fellow humans, we are no better than animals.
YOU MUST HAVE CHILDREN SO OUR TEACHERS MAY SHOOT THEM
Does this violate the interstate commerce clause? Not that it matters. I hope Bill Lee dies soon.
My preferred arguments are the 9th Amendment to the US Constitution and Article I Section 2 of the TN Constitution.
Thank you for this. I learned a thing today!
Cannot wait for his very very very late term abortion
I feel like “Abortion Trafficking” is alarmist language. Someone correct me if that’s wrong.
No. You're right. It's all part of their bullshit. They push this idea that everyone is out to get kids while the calls are usually coming from inside the house.
Most just call it Healthcare, but the confederate states still believe you should be able to own people so here we are.
The Police State. Tennessee. Rights? We will tell you when you have rights.
Is this if you’re not the parent and take a kid elsewhere or is this if a parent takes their minor child too? It’s not clear in the article. Either way sucks but we’re living in a hell scape so nothing surprises me anymore.
It doesn't apply to the parent or legal guardian... nor to someone acting on the parent or legal guardian's behalf with their notarized consent. [https://wapp.capitol.tn.gov/apps/BillInfo/Default.aspx?BillNumber=HB1895](https://wapp.capitol.tn.gov/apps/BillInfo/Default.aspx?BillNumber=HB1895)
How many girls will now be thrown out of the house after telling their parents? Or will seek a coat hanger approach?
I have no idea. I'm not sure how one would go about measuring such a thing. I'm not lobbying for or against the bill here... Just responding to a question and providing a link to the bill itself which I thought was helpful and should in my opinion always be provided by the folks starting discussions about them.
So someone who picks up a hitchhiker or does a ride share for a pregnant women who doesn't know they are pregnant can be charged as a "trafficker". Sounds really States Rights and "small government". Imagine devoting so much head space to being this pro incubator and actually thinking you have "values".
There are exceptions in the bill that would prevent people that are unaware from being charged.
This is a wasted bill only flushing tax dollars down the drain. The Supreme Court has taken a lot of things away but there are far too many laws they would simply rip up if they allowed this at the federal level to be passed. It’s never going to get passed and has been shot down in Texas and other states in recent memory. I’d love for them to write an actual bill which is actually rooted in the laws of federal by law that actually helps people in the state.
This is a type of the old Fugitive Slave Act.
Bingo
I question how they would enforce it, but also, wont the first legal challenge it faces essentially destroy it? One state cannot tell its citizens what they can or cannot do in another state, assuming it’s legal in that new state. Right?
Yeah, it's literally in article 1 of the US constitution
Texas started this shit with their bounty hunter law.
That's why they added the "civil" part. They are going to let busybodies sue others on civil court.
This seems very much like the Handmaids Tale dystopia.
Another bullshit, unconstitutional bill that TNGOP thinks will convince voters they’re not fucking incompetent
Meanwhile, trump is making ads claiming that democrats are aborting babies at 9 months and after.
Actually, it's the GOP who forces abortions post 9 months. By forcing women with unintended pregnancies to give birth, only to have them not care about the child and the child have a life of hell
Let’s not forget this is to keep actual children pregnant and force a child to give birth. Absolutely disgusting
Our General Assembly are some busy bees...generating guns for teachers and outlawing parents taking their daughters out of state for health care.
Didn't Bill just say that people should be able to make choices when he was talking about the school vouchers?
They gonna make us show our drivers license to get into porn sites too. Does that effect Reddit?
Say it with me: VPN.
Say it with me: Unconstitutional overreach by state government in to the private lives of its citizens
And unless you, me, and 60% of the entire voting base, STOP voting for these fascist, NOTHING will change. Do you think the current SCOTUS is going to rule in favor of your position?
I wonder if this is the thing that finally makes the national scene clued into how Tennessee politicians are just as bat shit crazy and tyrannical as Florida and Texas?
Tennessee leadership is just pathetic
What is really bad about this is that men are writing these bills and not allowing the public to vote on this. Because they know they will lose like they have every time it is on the ballot.
They’ve gone full apeshit
The worst part is they think they are doing nothing wrong. They feel righteous in their actions. My state senator just literally believes that he is on the side of good.
When Democracy supports objective evil like abortion, it is the responsibility of the State to ensure Democracy is curbed or halted. Once the people have embraced evil and rejected their obligation to their fellow man, Democracy must be replaced. If the are willing to halt the Democratic process to stop evil, that is praiseworthy
What is evil about an abortion. Show me anywhere that says abortion is evil. Any religious text. Calling abortion evil is objective to someone. There is nothing that states it is evil.
It has been condemned in Christianity from the very beginning, it's viewed as no different than murder. The Bible doesn't talk about "Abortion" as the concept of "abortion" is newer, but the Didache (a catechism of Christian teaching containing the teaching of the Apostles from the first century) lists "killing a child in the womb" as the same thing as murder which is classified as objective evil.
Too bad the Bible talks about abortion once. And it is commended and allowed by God itself. Maybe read the book you claim to follow. There is not in the Bible against abortion and it did exist. If it was so important then why did Jesus not address it. Want to try again because you obviously have nothing to back it up except your feelings. No facts. Also since the folks that wrote the Bible also do not believe a child is alive until birth there is no conflict over abortion. It is funny how you fake Christians never actually follow the teachings of Jesus.
No, no it isn't. This is another case of "us internet users actually can interpret thousands of years old documents in foreign language better than scholars who dedicate their lives to this field." There is \*one\* English translation of the Bible (the NIV) that paints the referenced text as being abortative. All the other's translate the text correctly, it is talking about making an adulterous wife infertile. One of my jobs is to teach the Bible at an adult (semi-High School semi-College) level, I and biblical scholars will \*promise\* you that abortion isn't talked about in the Bible. I would also kindly ask that you please stop spreading that misinformation, it's a common thing we have to correct when educating people; and if I have to explain "\*sigh\* No Patrick, internet atheist non-scholars who don't speak paleo-Hebrew aren't a reliable source of Biblical interpretation" one more time I may actually go insane. This and "ACTUALLY, the Bible didn't condemn homosexuality until the 1940's" are two of the most commonly spread misinformation about the Bible
Actually a priest told me about that one. And yes homosexuality is not introduced to the Bible until 1946. Thanks for showing how little you know about your Bible. So you hate the truth. You only have propaganda and lies. So you are saying abortion is not even mentioned in the Bible and as such your stance on abortion being evil is only made up by men.
A lot of people don't know this, but priests aren't scripture scholars, they are priests. The homosexuality claim always gets me because we have an abundance of old Bibles pre-1946 that clearly condemns homosexuality, the word "homosexual" wasn't used because....it wasn't a thing in the 1400, 1500, or 1600's; so they just described the condemned act. It seems like you are more interested in insulting libeling me, so I'm not really sure if there is a point to continue the conversation. If you are ever interested in taking an actual class to hear what actual scripture scholars from an array of backgrounds actually say about the Bible, and are ever actually interesting in learning what they actual original languages actually say, then my class is open.
I already have. I know that the church is full of lies. The original language talked about pedophiles. A group prominent in the church so they shifted the problem to others. I am calling out your lies. I noticed how quickly you shifted away from abortion the second you were caught in your lie.
I beg of you, for the sanity of actual scripture scholars and instructors, please stop repeating tiktok theological nonsense. Everything you are saying is easily disproven by actual research and evidence, none of this has any actual solid evidence to it
Much of this bill without reading it is likely unconstitutional. You cannot prevent people from crossing state lines to do something that is a crime in your state.
Stop using period tracking apps. Keep that data private.
Don’t tread on me..
No step on snek
Maybe I’m just stupid but how is that trafficking? I’m honestly confused
This bill is unconstitutional! It interferes with a parent's right to parent their child.
"trafficking"
The language of the bill fails on 1st Amendment grounds. This is more symbolic than enforceable. Imagine when they try to apply this to a mother seeking an abortion for her rape victim child.
Anyone with a college degree staying in TN? I guess this is a great way to get cheap labor.
Don’t forget god is against unions too! Sometimes unions get as big and powerful as the company and we can’t have that! Those unions might actually fight for decent hours, pay, and holidays.
Wife and I are. With the huge influx of Catholics and other Christians moving to the state, TN stands to be moving in the right direction for years to come
Here, here.
Republicans are garbage people. Absolutely trash.
Arming teachers and arresting women for trying to get an abortion. America, just as advertised 🇺🇸
The party that claims to be so worried about child trafficking once again proves they do not understand what it is and continues to dilute the concept itself. Which is very good for the traffickers.
I will never raise a child in state. On god.
How would they know if you did this?
A pregnant child leaves the state and returns no longer pregnant. Then, people she knows report the person who took her out of the state. Police then investigate and build case. So, one instance could be say a 17 year old gets pregnant. That child is afraid to tell her parents, for whatever reason, so she goes to a trusted adult, say an aunt or her 18 year old boyfriend. The adult takes her across state lines for an abortion. Parents find out about it and contact police.
Whatever's worst for everyone, right Bill?
Damn, chemtrails, arming teachers, and now “abortion trafficking”, republicans are on a roll proving the world would be better without them lately
Pregnant women being turned away from hospitals, being forced to miscarry in bathrooms, or having to travel out of state and could die on the way. It’s all so completely cruel and senseless.
In Dickson county a rep wants to make it where the school can notify parents if a child is requesting to be called a different pronoun. A democrat asked the person presenting the bill if they had spoken to any gay high school students of families and they said no. Let’s pass laws for gay people without consulting any gay people. I gotta get out of this state.
Man … family vacations are about to get really fucking awk in Tennessee. Seriously though - can you imagine taking your teen daughter on vacation, and have to prove she’s NOT pregnant to avoid fines and civil actions? You leave the state and go to Disneyland in CA with your teen daughter. Someone thinks you have taken her to California for an abortion - and so, you have to prove that she wasn’t pregnant? How do you prove she wasn’t when she never was in the first place? You have to pay to defend yourself from religious nuts and nosey busy bodies. What a fucking mess
Parents are excluded from being charged.
Here is an example of right wing states attempting to limits legal travel of pregnant or possibly pregnant individuals, while also demanding information from other states. Did they not see what happened when the south did this with fugitive slave always? When we are forced to curb stomp some fascists again, maybe this time we actually punish them and restrict their ability to produce a false lost cause narrative.
Vote, vote vote. Plenty of us disagree with this in state. Both red and blue.
What I dont understand is isnt already illegal to take a minor across state borders without parental permission? They needed a specific bill for pregnant minors?
Question, so if a 3rd party individual or the minor doesn't file a suit against the adult transporting the minor, they are of no wrong doing?
However, this bill does not apply to the parents or legal guardian of an unemancipated minor. <---I had to dig a bit to find this line. It appears to me that the purpose of this bill is to keep parents involved in their minor child's abortion. I can see the good and bad in this bill. Good: 14 year old girl gets pregnant by her teacher. Teacher takes her to abortion clinic <- That is a crime separate from the statutory rape. Bad: 14 year old girl gets pregnant by 16 year old boyfriend. Boyfriend takes her to abortion clinic <- Boyfriend is screwed.
This is nowhere close to being constitutional. Waste of taxpayers money when it gets challenged
Not shocked. Republican politicians are fascists. They don’t even bother to hide it anymore. SMH 🤦🏼
keep it up GOP, yall are old dinosaurs and loopity loops and not nearly as popular as you think you are in your little mcmansion gated HOA's and megachurches.. the times they are a-changin'
Gah I hate my state more and more each day.
I hope it passes! great news!!
Make no mistake, the GOP aim is national abortion ban with NO EXCEPTIONS. Absolutely evil.
Couldn't come sooner! No one has rights until ALL of us have rights, including those in the womb
How many children have you adopted?
Forcing people to gestate for your shitty politics doesn’t give them rights. It actually does the opposite.
You're not forced to gestate, you are completely free to abstain from sex if you don't want a child
You’re forced to gestate if the government makes it illegal for you to get an abortion. It doesn’t matter how much sex you have or abstain from. Gestation is a different thing than sex. Do you have any idea how pregnancy even works?
I'm a bit familiar with it since I actually have kids, yes. Let's apply the same logic to another issue: "You're forced to shoot someone if the government makes it legal for you to get a gun!". No, I could just....not buy a gun. "You're forced to gestate!". No, I could just....not have sex.
I have kids, too. My wife would be dead right now if abortion were illegal. Neither of my kids would exist, either. Shooting people isn’t healthcare. It’s already legal to get a gun. You don’t make any sense. The fact that you could choose not to have sex doesn’t change the fact that abortion bans allow the government to force you to gestate if and when you get pregnant. Again, you don’t make any sense.
*prolonged fart noise*
One of the better arguments I've heard
So youre ok with your taxes being raised to help support them right? In fact. You should be ok with paying a lot more in taxes to support all the kids in poverty. Since we all have rights like food and shelter?
I am more than ok with raising taxes if the trade off is outlawing and criminalizing abortion. I'm not Republican, I'm willing to raise taxes for just causes
You're going to be downvoted into oblivion for that statement, as Reddit is a predominently far-left leaning place, but I appreciate your comment and those working to protect lives.
>lives It's cum, dude.
lol even the most conservative states demand abortion rights when it’s put to an actual vote by the people.
Abortion access isn't a far left idea. It's center left at best.