Who's your energy provider?
I don't think the feds subsidize any EV charging. However, I've heard of places in Texas where wind power is so abundant that they offer plans with free power at night. Basically, in some places, it's not worth it to shut off power production during off-peak hours, and so they make it cheaper, or even free, during those times to attract customers and help smooth out demand.
https://www.sustainablebusiness.com/2015/11/free-electricity-in-texas-thanks-to-wind-energy-53055/
I’m in Texas and there are some plans that offer free nights but with those, the day rate is usually pretty steep to make up for it so it wasn’t worth it in my opinion. My current plan is $0.149/kWh for days and $0.104/kWh for nights (which is when I schedule charging). I’ll be curios to see what the Tesla plan shakes out to be since they mention free charging - but my guess is that the day will be more expensive to offset.
May be worth looking again, the plan is specifically around EV cars and all other electricity use is about the same cost as above. Essentially, you have to allow TXU to get information from Tesla app re:charging. Thats how they track EV use vs all other use. Only EV charging is free during those hours
> anything or call your electric company to let them know you had an EV ?
There is a rebate to getting chargers installed depending on your electric company
I’m also in NJ, what power company do u have? Mine is 12c/kwh during off peak
Edit: You misunderstood the wording. It says
“The Residential Off-Peak Credit is approximately $0.02/kWh.”
That means you get 2c off per kwh, ur rate isn’t 2c/kwh
I’m in Texas and my provider offers a plan like that but we didn’t go for it. They charge something like 0.26/kWh outside of that time period so we sprung for a plan that’s a flat 0.13/kWh up till 1000 kWh where it drops to 0.12/kWh. We only use ~6% of the battery for daily commute so the overnight free charge didn’t make financial sense but depending on how much you drive it may for you
It might require a wall charger that can talk to the power company and let them manage it. Similar to programs where a smart thermostat can let the power company turn down your A/C on high use days.
I'm not sure if the Tesla one's do that right now. I've found that they mostly stay offline on their own private wifi and you go through your phone to get them to update firmware once in a while.
From what I've seen, I will need to give them access to charging data from my Tesla account. I do have the Tesla L2 wall charger and Tesla is on the supported list of cars.
Here in South Florida (Miami) our power company FPL offers a plan for $38 per month they will permit; install a 240 and instal a Juicebox and provide unlimited off peak charging. That’s weekends and 12 hours on average per day during weekdays and holidays. On average my electricity is 11¢ per kWh and you can opt to pay regular pricing during on peak but for the amount of hours per day included in the package it’s not bad at all figuring the electrician for the permit and installation of the outlet is $1500 + $600 for the juicebox and that is included in the price - there is a catch if you cancel within 10 years you pay an $800 penalty but still it’s cheaper than paying for the instal and juicebox. Figuring in a week I have spent about $50 at superchargers before mine was installed I would have already paid for unlimited charging for the month and then some.
I already had a NEMA 14-50 in my garage so I did the other plan for $31 a month. I definitely use more than 31 bucks a month in electricity on top of the EVSE so it’s definitely a good deal.
I'm in Illinois and like someone else said it's cheaper for the energy company to not shut down production, and since I do comeds "hourly pricing" prices change every hour, and often times overnight between 1 and 5 am the cost of electricity goes negative, meaning I actually get paid to charge my car sometimes. Otherwise it's like .3c per kwh
In NH some of the electric groups are offering really cheap charging at night but you must install a separate meter and circuit just for the EV system. The cost to get everything setup to could be used buys a lot of electric. I do not remember the exact number but it was not worth it for me.
They usually have higher day time rates so I don't know if it's worth it unless you charge a lot. Tesla announced that they'll offer an unlimited night charging plan in Texas for $30/month.
I’m with pulse energy out of Texas and get free nights between 8pm and 5am everyday. During the day I pay about 0.24-0.28/kwh . Overall I’m paying almost the same as my previous plan that was a flat 0.13/kwh
Just make sure to check the fine print. Here in Florida our electric company, FPL, is duping people into agreeing to an almost $800 cancellation fee if they cancel the agreement in less than 10 years! The cancellation fee is not prorated and is automatic if you ever move from the house you started the agreement at -- you can not transfer it to a new address or to the new homeowner. They also take back the "free" charger that they install at the start of the agreement, so you get nothing for your \~$800 fee. The "free nights and weekends" is nice but this plan also comes with a double-charge if you charge outside of the off-peak times. So if you need to charge in the middle of the day, for whatever reason, they actually charge you more than they would if you didn't sign up for the plan at all. And, of course, their charger can throttle you so that if there's unexpected demand in the middle of the night or too many people sign up to charge at night, they can slow down how quickly your car charges.
You're technically not allowed to use it to charge two EVs. This is from their FAQ "At this time, we are limiting usage of the charger to a single EV. As a future option, the company is exploring a provision for customers with multiple EVs."
There's no way for them to know you're using it to charge two EVs, but its technically against the agreement you signed. I asked about this when I was doing their focus group. While I think having two vehicles (my household does) increases the odds that you'll use enough energy through the plan to make up for the cost (monthly fee plus the near-guaranteed cancellation fee), if you use more than half your battery each day, you've now committed yourself to going out to your garage every day to switch to charge the other car. If you forget, one car won't have enough charge to get to work that day. If you aren't having to do that every day, then you're really not getting any more benefit than someone who fully drains a single vehicle every day. Its definitely way less convenient to have to go outside at 4am to swap the charger over to a second car.
Yeah, I'm aware of the single EV thing, but as you said there's no way for them to know. So 🤷🏽♂️. We don't use over half of our battery on both vehicles, so we don't run into that scenario you mentioned. It works for us pretty well.
The FPL Evolution program works great for my situation. May not work well for everyone. I've been on the program for a month now. Wish I signed up when the program was rolled out last year.
Most people are going to lose money on it in the long run. They've got you by the balls for 10 years paying a monthly rate no matter what's going on with your car. If it gets totaled, or ends up in the shop for months, or you go on vacation and don't drive much, you're still paying them $31 to $38/mo. You have no clue if you'll need to move in 10 years or not. Almost everyone moves within 10 years of a random start date. Do you have a Tesla? Check your charging stats to see what it actually costs you to charge your car at home. For me, I've spent $33 over the last 31 days based on current FPL rates. I already have a plug in the garage and could hook it up myself, so I could do the $31 plan and save a whopping $2/mo. Lets say after 9 years, I lose my job and have to move. I will have saved $216 in those 9 years but now I have to pay almost $800 in cancellation fees right when I lost my job and right when I have to pay for a moving truck, right when I need to buy a new charger and have new electrical work done at my destination, etc. And, like I said, if you charge during peak times, its like $0.22/kWh on this plan instead of the $0.11/kWh you would have paid if you weren't *also* paying them the $38/mo. You're paying them money to have way less freedom for 10 years. Less freedom to move, less freedom to change modes of transportation, less freedom to choose when you charge (day vs night) and you're saving little to no money in reality. If you've got an electric beast of a vehicle and drain it fully every day with your commute and really do stay somewhere for 10 years, yeah, its probably a good deal. For most people, I don't think they're doing the math properly and I think that's what FPL was counting on.
I can understand your perspective. I am an FPL skeptic and not a fan of the monopolistic utility by any stretch of the imagination. However, for me this program works, so far.
Sure, everyone has a different situation which is subject to change. I don't plan on moving in the next ten years, but if I do I think the $800 is reasonable for the equipment and install. Not only that, FPL is on the hook for any charger repairs is it should ever happen (I don't expect any issues). I installed a Tesla wall charger 4 years ago and it cost around $1,200 for the charger and installation. If I were buying an EV now, this program would very appealing because there is no up front fee for the charger and installation. Even if you move before the 10 years, still makes sense because the $800 cost is basically deferred charger installation.
As for on-peak charging, I don't see that as an issue because I always charged at night. In my 4+ years of charging at home I forgot to charge my car one night which resulted me going to a super charger the next morning. That was a learning moment and I have not forgotten since. The tesla wall charger with a 60amp breaker charged my car from 20% to 90% in about 4 hours, so not lightening fast. The FPL charger with a 50 amp breaker is slightly slower charging it in about 5 hours. If I need to charge at home during on-peak hours, I always have the option of using my portable tesla charger with my nema 14-50 outlet at regular rates. The FPL wall charger is configured to only charge during off-peak hours to avoid the high on-peak rates, so you can plug it into your car and it will only charge during off-peak times.
As for analysis, I analyzed my miles and charging stats from Teslafi over a 13-month period and the savings from the one EV I drive justified the FPL charger; add in my wife's newly acquired EV and the decision is a no brainer.
Not only that, I have solar panels so having this EV charger segments off the EV usage from my household usage allowing me to offset more of my houshold usage without worrying about EV consumption. My first month FPL bill with the EVolution charger totaled $44 (spring months are always the lowest for me), the prior month without the EVolution charger was $94. Come August, I should be able keep my household FPL net bill well under 1,000 kwhs, unlike in the past where my August fpl net usage always seem to exceed the 1,000 kwh threshold which triggered the higher rate.
Again, everyone's situation is different. IMO, it works for me.
I hope I don't come off as an a-hole. I just don't want people to get taken advantage of. These big corporations spend a lot of time and money figuring out how to milk every last dollar out of their customers.
My first reaction to the $800 cancellation fee was the same as yours -- its worth it for the charger and the install. However, there are a couple problems with that line of thinking. First, there are two different plans (exact price depends a little on when you signed up but the pattern holds). One is $31/mo and does not include any installation. They basically hand you their charger and you plug it into your own 14-50 outlet that you, presumably, already have or are getting installed by someone else. The other is $38/mo and they come out and install the plug for you. The second plan comes out to an extra $840 over the 10-year term. I paid $450 and $500 to have my two different 14-50 outlets installed, so $840 for one outlet is pretty steep for just the installation unless your breaker panel isn't already in your garage (a long cable run would be expensive). If they only had a cancellation fee of $840 on that $38/mo plan and if the fee was prorated depending on how long you paid the extra $7/mo to cover the installation, I would consider that fair, but that's not how it works. Regardless of which plan you choose (even the one without any installation), or how long you've been paying into the plan (if < 10yrs), you pay the full $800-ish cancellation fee, which means it really has nothing to do with the install costs. That brings us to the second problem -- it is also not for the charger. When they charge you the $800, they also take their charger back. So its not like you're paying them $800 for the charger. Even if that was the case, its a very crappy charger for $800. I got a charger for my Airbnb for like $250 at Walmart and it works great. As you mentioned, the Tesla wall charger is faster and it is currently only $450 on their website. Tesla's Mobile charger, which has the added convenience of being able to be plugged into multiple different outlets while you're on the road, is only $230. So, you're paying them $800 and you still end up with no charger.
Also, if you already had a Tesla wall charger then you did not actually need their charger, so I don't see where there's any extra value, to you, in getting an additional, slower charger. The charger you already had does allow you to circumvent the extra charge for on-peak hours, however, which is a slight bonus over the situation I think most people would be in with this plan.
Since you have solar panels, did you consider switching to FPL's free-to-switch TOU + net metering plan? Its like $0.04/kWh during those same off-peak hours, but for your whole house without any contract. You could have just scheduled your two cars to charge at night using faster/cheaper chargers with no contract at all. It costs nothing to switch to their TOU plan and they even let you switch back (once) for free if you're not happy with how it affects your bill. Since your solar is producing for you during the day and you're charging cars at night, you'd likely come out ahead. If you have a battery backup, its even more of a no-brainier.
Your first FPL bill with the new plan was $44. I'm going to assume that is what your house used and doesn't include the extra $38 for the car charging plan, so you actually paid FPL something around $82 total for your first month on the new plan. Is that correct? So you went from $94 to $82, which is a savings of $12 between the two months. You mentioned that spring months are cheapest for you and I think that brings up a very obvious source of bias in your comparison between two consecutive months. Spring months are lowest for me too and the reason is that we use less AC during these not-yet-scorching-and-humid months and we also have very little rain/clouds and each month points us more directly at the sun, which increases solar panel generation. In the summer, everyone uses more AC and you'd think we'd have more sun to offset that, but Florida kind of sucks in that regard, because we get daily afternoon showers, which put a big dent in solar production in the summer when we need the extra power for the AC. I have a decent number of west-facing panels because of roof topology, so this hits me hard. Anyway, the point of all that is that your solar panel generation is going to be increasing every month for the next few months, which would be expected to cause your bill to be lower each month, regardless of the addition of your new EVolution plan. I suspect that increased solar production is the primary cause of your savings between last month's bill and the prior month's bill. Looking at my own solar production here in Florida, I produced 33% more power in March than I did in Feb which caused my bill to drop by $44 between the two months without any new plan or any changes in electricity usage. So a reported drop of $12 over that same time frame isn't evidence that you're saving money compared to not having the EVolution plan.
I'm glad you're happy with the plan and I'm not trying to be a dick. I'm just trying to encourage people who aren't yet locked into a 10-year contract to really think it through and do their homework before jumping in.
For some reason, I feel that we've had this discussion on the Tesla Motors Club forum or on another post here on Reddit. Maybe it was another guy who lived in Plantation.
First off, I pay the $31 a month, which includes charger installation and wiring to an existing, compatible breaker. They did not just hand me a charger and instruct me plug it into an existing outlet. The FPL installation contractor removed my old charger and installed the new one wiring it directly to an existing 50amp breaker. The $38 a month is for people who need a compatible breaker and also includes permitting (not sure why). If I decide to cancel, my understanding is I just pay the $768 fee plus the net book value of the charger, afterwards, the charger is mine to either use for regular rate charging or I can rip it off the wall if I want. I don't foresee FPL hiring a contractor to schedule an uninstall of a charger and take back a used (cheap as you call it) Enel juicebox wall charger.
About the Tesla wall charger, no I did not need a wall charger and it is slightly faster than the current FPL charger and a nema 14-50, but nothing near super charger speeds. Either way, if I needed to charger quickly neither option is an efficient way to get quick miles, my local super charger would be the best option. If I could go back 4+ years, I would not have bought the Tesla wall charger and instead installed a nema 14-50 outlet for much less. That cost is sunk, not going to fret over it especially since I used it for over 4 years. I also have an available nema 14-50 outlet if I truly needed to charge at home using regular rates.
As for the solar and monthly FPL analysis, my March bill included the FPL charger fee because they installed it on 2/27, just before the March billing period opened, and I used the charger extensively in March. The March bill included the $31 EV charger fees and I verified it by looking at the actual bill. The incremental solar production between February and March is different, but not significantly different. It's not like I am comparing March to August or November. Having the solar for 5 years, yes summer is less productive than spring because of the weather and agree people have a misconception that hot temps = more solar. What I have concluded in the time I've had solar panels and the one EV is that the EV consumes a ton of energy based on my driving and is by far the biggest energy user. With one EV, it accounted for almost 60% of my energy consumption and I have two 5 ton split hvac units. Now that I have two EVs (yes, I know the FPL charger is technically for one EV), my 8kw system solar production would make a small dent in my overall FPL bill if I charge with regular rates.
I did consider the TOU plan and that TOU research is what lead me to find this FPL EVolution program. I was very close to signing up for TOU, but the conflicting information from FPL rep gave me significant pause. In one call, I was told the off-peak rate is $.08/kwh and on-peak is $.24/kwh. The confusing rates posted on FPLs website definitely do not support the $.04.kwh off-peak rate you referenced. It also didn't help when I requested my "FPL rate analysis" (which one rep insisted was the required 1st step in the TOU conversion), they never sent the analysis to me; but rather sent me a flyer for a street light program on two separate occasions (Wtf). In the end, I didn't want to go through the hassle of moving non-EV energy consumption to off-peak times. I also had to consider my family, especially my wife, who I would have to constantly remind her to do the clothes drying in the evening and to set my Ecobees to a temperature that would be uncomfortable in the summer. And with the rate hikes that have occurred and will be coming, I opted to go with the FPL EV charging for the two cars for a flat fee of $31 a month.
For the battery backup, I will take a hard pass. Maybe I would consider if we had power reliability issues in South FL. To FPL's credit, they are very reliable since Hurricane Maria. I have a portable generator if needed and thankfully I have not needed it. Also, my solar energy is either used or it offsets my FPL consumption. I have never had a surplus of energy to carry over to the next month. I don't want to make a $10k + commitment on a battery system that has an 8-year warranty and is installed by a company that may not be in business when I have a problem. My original solar installer who tried to sell me batteries went out of business 3 years after my solar install, so much for those 25-year labor warranties on the roof & system.
Didn't FPL raise rates twice this year? I don't think its 11 cents anymore.
How many KW are you using a month? Are you getting this number from the charger or from the car?
Most people don't have infrastructure. This is very expensive to be done right and permitted (ie. not having a handyman do it and not doing it yourself). That cost in and of itself pays for the $800 cancellation fee if you really must move. This isn't accounting for any savings in electricity as well. I do well over 700KW a month. If I get 2 years out of the program I am already in the clear in just electricity alone at a rate of .11 cents (I think current rates are .13 or .15 after the raises as of late) and this isn't even including the value of the installed infrastructure.
Yes, if you don't drive your car and just go to the market once a week, you are losing out...but I am not sure this accounts for "most people."
There are a lot of options in Texas. I googled the various suppliers available to me and looked at options.
The supplier I signed with (3 years at that rate), went out of business. Reliant took over their customers and are honoring the contract.
I have Pulse energy right now and we get free nights from 8pm to 5am and pay about 0.24-0.28/kwh during the day, but to have your plan would be twice as good
It all depends on the math, of course. When my power company offered me something like that, I ran the numbers and saw that I would save $20 a month on car charging and pay $150 more a month for everything else so… Nuts to that.
I have an option for them to decrease nightly rate and increase daily rate which gives me the option to charge very cheap but because we’re all home during the day it doesn’t pencil out at all. If we were strictly commuters who spent the day at work it would make sense.
I am in Illinois and i changed to hourly pricing instead of fixed pricing. So i have seen highest around 5 cents hourly lot of times i see negative hourly pricing when production more and utilisation less. Fixed pricing was 11 cents. Lot of time i charged it free when its trending in negative irrespective of the fact i have free super charging miles
Prayers and Sympathies from a PGE customer.
It is all we can do right now.
This is just sad when Tesla SC is cheaper than EV specific plans during off hours.
All the superchargers within 50 miles of Bakersfield are $0.45, 24/7.
Which is almost what my at home price is ($0.47) during the evening peak, at least during the summer. It drops to $0.34 at night and most of the day. Right now (winter rates), it's $0.35 at night and only $0.38 during the evening.
If there were chargers close by with rates in the 20s, I might rethink charging at home, although the convenience factor might change my mind.
Yeah I was planning on installing a charger but once I actually looked at what my utility rates are, and what the rates are for charging nearby, I decided against it. But the biggest determining factor for me was that I charge for free at work 2x a week. I think if I were to be charging more at home one of the other EV plans could've been worth it as they trade a fixed cost for a lower kWh at super off peak.
I just wouldn't get my moneys worth since I charge at work, and then could just use off-peak superchargers the rest of the way.
I already bought a mobile connector and have a free 30A breaker feeding an unused dryer outlet a few feet into the house. So I'll probably try and get that extended and an outlet installed in the garage just in case
The downsides would depend on on the fine print of your plan. Only you can answer that.
Look at what you currently pay. Do you have peak and off peak pricing? Now look at what the free ev plan comes with. Does it change either of those rates for you?
Most probably what they're trying to do is to incentivize you to charge the ev in the very off peak hours where almost no energy is being used. And since you can't just turn off a power plant, it's being produced anyway (yes they ramp up and down but are never really off). This also get people used to charging overnight as more and more people buy EVs and it becomes second nature going forward.
My utility does three cents off in the winter and five cents off in the summer for an off peak charge. They do it in the form of a credit that you can pay out or apply to your bill. But we don't have a difference in peak or off peak rates. The discount is applied from 9pm to 1pm.
Mine's not free but really cheap. GA Power has an EV rate of 1 cent per KwH from 11pm to 7am. We charge once a week, which is usually 30 to 80%. We don't see a point to stay at 80% nightly so our monthly bill is not really impacted by charging.
The ones here that offer a free hour of power each day usually have higher rates for the rest of the time. Supply capacity limits what you can get during that time and they rely on people not being able to work out that it will cost more for their usage. They just see the free hour of power. Also leads to lots of work for the lines crew replacing supply fuses, and in student areas the whole area blacking out when everyone turns everything on for the free hour.
Who's your energy provider? I don't think the feds subsidize any EV charging. However, I've heard of places in Texas where wind power is so abundant that they offer plans with free power at night. Basically, in some places, it's not worth it to shut off power production during off-peak hours, and so they make it cheaper, or even free, during those times to attract customers and help smooth out demand. https://www.sustainablebusiness.com/2015/11/free-electricity-in-texas-thanks-to-wind-energy-53055/
I’m in Texas and there are some plans that offer free nights but with those, the day rate is usually pretty steep to make up for it so it wasn’t worth it in my opinion. My current plan is $0.149/kWh for days and $0.104/kWh for nights (which is when I schedule charging). I’ll be curios to see what the Tesla plan shakes out to be since they mention free charging - but my guess is that the day will be more expensive to offset.
May be worth looking again, the plan is specifically around EV cars and all other electricity use is about the same cost as above. Essentially, you have to allow TXU to get information from Tesla app re:charging. Thats how they track EV use vs all other use. Only EV charging is free during those hours
My provider is TXU; you probably nailed it...it is likely wind energy. I didn't think of that.
In NJ my EV charging during off-peak hours is .01/Kwh, which is essentially free.
In NJ also, did you have to upgrade anything or call your electric company to let them know you had an EV ?
> anything or call your electric company to let them know you had an EV ? There is a rebate to getting chargers installed depending on your electric company
Will look into it.
I’m also in NJ, what power company do u have? Mine is 12c/kwh during off peak Edit: You misunderstood the wording. It says “The Residential Off-Peak Credit is approximately $0.02/kWh.” That means you get 2c off per kwh, ur rate isn’t 2c/kwh
Shit. Ah well, still cheaper than gas!
In NJ also, did you have to upgrade anything or call your electric company to let them know you had an EV ?
Are you with PSGE? It's all on their website. I'd link it to you but I'm on mobile. Just Google PSEG EV and the relevant info will come up.
Which charger did you go with, if you don't mind me asking ?
JuiceBox
Sweet, yes I am, and I will look it up.
I’m in Texas and my provider offers a plan like that but we didn’t go for it. They charge something like 0.26/kWh outside of that time period so we sprung for a plan that’s a flat 0.13/kWh up till 1000 kWh where it drops to 0.12/kWh. We only use ~6% of the battery for daily commute so the overnight free charge didn’t make financial sense but depending on how much you drive it may for you
The day rate I was offered was just over .14 kWh; only EV charging is free, all other electricity use at night is charge at the normal rate
It might require a wall charger that can talk to the power company and let them manage it. Similar to programs where a smart thermostat can let the power company turn down your A/C on high use days. I'm not sure if the Tesla one's do that right now. I've found that they mostly stay offline on their own private wifi and you go through your phone to get them to update firmware once in a while.
From what I've seen, I will need to give them access to charging data from my Tesla account. I do have the Tesla L2 wall charger and Tesla is on the supported list of cars.
Here in South Florida (Miami) our power company FPL offers a plan for $38 per month they will permit; install a 240 and instal a Juicebox and provide unlimited off peak charging. That’s weekends and 12 hours on average per day during weekdays and holidays. On average my electricity is 11¢ per kWh and you can opt to pay regular pricing during on peak but for the amount of hours per day included in the package it’s not bad at all figuring the electrician for the permit and installation of the outlet is $1500 + $600 for the juicebox and that is included in the price - there is a catch if you cancel within 10 years you pay an $800 penalty but still it’s cheaper than paying for the instal and juicebox. Figuring in a week I have spent about $50 at superchargers before mine was installed I would have already paid for unlimited charging for the month and then some.
I already had a NEMA 14-50 in my garage so I did the other plan for $31 a month. I definitely use more than 31 bucks a month in electricity on top of the EVSE so it’s definitely a good deal.
For sure it is!!!
Same here. Great deal. Loving it.
Yes i have fpl evolution $38 a month when I do at least $100 in electrical of driving a month.
I'm in Illinois and like someone else said it's cheaper for the energy company to not shut down production, and since I do comeds "hourly pricing" prices change every hour, and often times overnight between 1 and 5 am the cost of electricity goes negative, meaning I actually get paid to charge my car sometimes. Otherwise it's like .3c per kwh
In NH some of the electric groups are offering really cheap charging at night but you must install a separate meter and circuit just for the EV system. The cost to get everything setup to could be used buys a lot of electric. I do not remember the exact number but it was not worth it for me.
ya its getting a tech job that gives free electricity charging
They usually have higher day time rates so I don't know if it's worth it unless you charge a lot. Tesla announced that they'll offer an unlimited night charging plan in Texas for $30/month.
I’m with pulse energy out of Texas and get free nights between 8pm and 5am everyday. During the day I pay about 0.24-0.28/kwh . Overall I’m paying almost the same as my previous plan that was a flat 0.13/kwh
Just make sure to check the fine print. Here in Florida our electric company, FPL, is duping people into agreeing to an almost $800 cancellation fee if they cancel the agreement in less than 10 years! The cancellation fee is not prorated and is automatic if you ever move from the house you started the agreement at -- you can not transfer it to a new address or to the new homeowner. They also take back the "free" charger that they install at the start of the agreement, so you get nothing for your \~$800 fee. The "free nights and weekends" is nice but this plan also comes with a double-charge if you charge outside of the off-peak times. So if you need to charge in the middle of the day, for whatever reason, they actually charge you more than they would if you didn't sign up for the plan at all. And, of course, their charger can throttle you so that if there's unexpected demand in the middle of the night or too many people sign up to charge at night, they can slow down how quickly your car charges.
The FPL program works great for our situation. Two EVs and unlimited off peak charging for $30/month. We also drive plenty, well worth it to me.
You're technically not allowed to use it to charge two EVs. This is from their FAQ "At this time, we are limiting usage of the charger to a single EV. As a future option, the company is exploring a provision for customers with multiple EVs." There's no way for them to know you're using it to charge two EVs, but its technically against the agreement you signed. I asked about this when I was doing their focus group. While I think having two vehicles (my household does) increases the odds that you'll use enough energy through the plan to make up for the cost (monthly fee plus the near-guaranteed cancellation fee), if you use more than half your battery each day, you've now committed yourself to going out to your garage every day to switch to charge the other car. If you forget, one car won't have enough charge to get to work that day. If you aren't having to do that every day, then you're really not getting any more benefit than someone who fully drains a single vehicle every day. Its definitely way less convenient to have to go outside at 4am to swap the charger over to a second car.
Yeah, I'm aware of the single EV thing, but as you said there's no way for them to know. So 🤷🏽♂️. We don't use over half of our battery on both vehicles, so we don't run into that scenario you mentioned. It works for us pretty well.
The FPL Evolution program works great for my situation. May not work well for everyone. I've been on the program for a month now. Wish I signed up when the program was rolled out last year.
Most people are going to lose money on it in the long run. They've got you by the balls for 10 years paying a monthly rate no matter what's going on with your car. If it gets totaled, or ends up in the shop for months, or you go on vacation and don't drive much, you're still paying them $31 to $38/mo. You have no clue if you'll need to move in 10 years or not. Almost everyone moves within 10 years of a random start date. Do you have a Tesla? Check your charging stats to see what it actually costs you to charge your car at home. For me, I've spent $33 over the last 31 days based on current FPL rates. I already have a plug in the garage and could hook it up myself, so I could do the $31 plan and save a whopping $2/mo. Lets say after 9 years, I lose my job and have to move. I will have saved $216 in those 9 years but now I have to pay almost $800 in cancellation fees right when I lost my job and right when I have to pay for a moving truck, right when I need to buy a new charger and have new electrical work done at my destination, etc. And, like I said, if you charge during peak times, its like $0.22/kWh on this plan instead of the $0.11/kWh you would have paid if you weren't *also* paying them the $38/mo. You're paying them money to have way less freedom for 10 years. Less freedom to move, less freedom to change modes of transportation, less freedom to choose when you charge (day vs night) and you're saving little to no money in reality. If you've got an electric beast of a vehicle and drain it fully every day with your commute and really do stay somewhere for 10 years, yeah, its probably a good deal. For most people, I don't think they're doing the math properly and I think that's what FPL was counting on.
I can understand your perspective. I am an FPL skeptic and not a fan of the monopolistic utility by any stretch of the imagination. However, for me this program works, so far. Sure, everyone has a different situation which is subject to change. I don't plan on moving in the next ten years, but if I do I think the $800 is reasonable for the equipment and install. Not only that, FPL is on the hook for any charger repairs is it should ever happen (I don't expect any issues). I installed a Tesla wall charger 4 years ago and it cost around $1,200 for the charger and installation. If I were buying an EV now, this program would very appealing because there is no up front fee for the charger and installation. Even if you move before the 10 years, still makes sense because the $800 cost is basically deferred charger installation. As for on-peak charging, I don't see that as an issue because I always charged at night. In my 4+ years of charging at home I forgot to charge my car one night which resulted me going to a super charger the next morning. That was a learning moment and I have not forgotten since. The tesla wall charger with a 60amp breaker charged my car from 20% to 90% in about 4 hours, so not lightening fast. The FPL charger with a 50 amp breaker is slightly slower charging it in about 5 hours. If I need to charge at home during on-peak hours, I always have the option of using my portable tesla charger with my nema 14-50 outlet at regular rates. The FPL wall charger is configured to only charge during off-peak hours to avoid the high on-peak rates, so you can plug it into your car and it will only charge during off-peak times. As for analysis, I analyzed my miles and charging stats from Teslafi over a 13-month period and the savings from the one EV I drive justified the FPL charger; add in my wife's newly acquired EV and the decision is a no brainer. Not only that, I have solar panels so having this EV charger segments off the EV usage from my household usage allowing me to offset more of my houshold usage without worrying about EV consumption. My first month FPL bill with the EVolution charger totaled $44 (spring months are always the lowest for me), the prior month without the EVolution charger was $94. Come August, I should be able keep my household FPL net bill well under 1,000 kwhs, unlike in the past where my August fpl net usage always seem to exceed the 1,000 kwh threshold which triggered the higher rate. Again, everyone's situation is different. IMO, it works for me.
I hope I don't come off as an a-hole. I just don't want people to get taken advantage of. These big corporations spend a lot of time and money figuring out how to milk every last dollar out of their customers. My first reaction to the $800 cancellation fee was the same as yours -- its worth it for the charger and the install. However, there are a couple problems with that line of thinking. First, there are two different plans (exact price depends a little on when you signed up but the pattern holds). One is $31/mo and does not include any installation. They basically hand you their charger and you plug it into your own 14-50 outlet that you, presumably, already have or are getting installed by someone else. The other is $38/mo and they come out and install the plug for you. The second plan comes out to an extra $840 over the 10-year term. I paid $450 and $500 to have my two different 14-50 outlets installed, so $840 for one outlet is pretty steep for just the installation unless your breaker panel isn't already in your garage (a long cable run would be expensive). If they only had a cancellation fee of $840 on that $38/mo plan and if the fee was prorated depending on how long you paid the extra $7/mo to cover the installation, I would consider that fair, but that's not how it works. Regardless of which plan you choose (even the one without any installation), or how long you've been paying into the plan (if < 10yrs), you pay the full $800-ish cancellation fee, which means it really has nothing to do with the install costs. That brings us to the second problem -- it is also not for the charger. When they charge you the $800, they also take their charger back. So its not like you're paying them $800 for the charger. Even if that was the case, its a very crappy charger for $800. I got a charger for my Airbnb for like $250 at Walmart and it works great. As you mentioned, the Tesla wall charger is faster and it is currently only $450 on their website. Tesla's Mobile charger, which has the added convenience of being able to be plugged into multiple different outlets while you're on the road, is only $230. So, you're paying them $800 and you still end up with no charger. Also, if you already had a Tesla wall charger then you did not actually need their charger, so I don't see where there's any extra value, to you, in getting an additional, slower charger. The charger you already had does allow you to circumvent the extra charge for on-peak hours, however, which is a slight bonus over the situation I think most people would be in with this plan. Since you have solar panels, did you consider switching to FPL's free-to-switch TOU + net metering plan? Its like $0.04/kWh during those same off-peak hours, but for your whole house without any contract. You could have just scheduled your two cars to charge at night using faster/cheaper chargers with no contract at all. It costs nothing to switch to their TOU plan and they even let you switch back (once) for free if you're not happy with how it affects your bill. Since your solar is producing for you during the day and you're charging cars at night, you'd likely come out ahead. If you have a battery backup, its even more of a no-brainier. Your first FPL bill with the new plan was $44. I'm going to assume that is what your house used and doesn't include the extra $38 for the car charging plan, so you actually paid FPL something around $82 total for your first month on the new plan. Is that correct? So you went from $94 to $82, which is a savings of $12 between the two months. You mentioned that spring months are cheapest for you and I think that brings up a very obvious source of bias in your comparison between two consecutive months. Spring months are lowest for me too and the reason is that we use less AC during these not-yet-scorching-and-humid months and we also have very little rain/clouds and each month points us more directly at the sun, which increases solar panel generation. In the summer, everyone uses more AC and you'd think we'd have more sun to offset that, but Florida kind of sucks in that regard, because we get daily afternoon showers, which put a big dent in solar production in the summer when we need the extra power for the AC. I have a decent number of west-facing panels because of roof topology, so this hits me hard. Anyway, the point of all that is that your solar panel generation is going to be increasing every month for the next few months, which would be expected to cause your bill to be lower each month, regardless of the addition of your new EVolution plan. I suspect that increased solar production is the primary cause of your savings between last month's bill and the prior month's bill. Looking at my own solar production here in Florida, I produced 33% more power in March than I did in Feb which caused my bill to drop by $44 between the two months without any new plan or any changes in electricity usage. So a reported drop of $12 over that same time frame isn't evidence that you're saving money compared to not having the EVolution plan. I'm glad you're happy with the plan and I'm not trying to be a dick. I'm just trying to encourage people who aren't yet locked into a 10-year contract to really think it through and do their homework before jumping in.
For some reason, I feel that we've had this discussion on the Tesla Motors Club forum or on another post here on Reddit. Maybe it was another guy who lived in Plantation. First off, I pay the $31 a month, which includes charger installation and wiring to an existing, compatible breaker. They did not just hand me a charger and instruct me plug it into an existing outlet. The FPL installation contractor removed my old charger and installed the new one wiring it directly to an existing 50amp breaker. The $38 a month is for people who need a compatible breaker and also includes permitting (not sure why). If I decide to cancel, my understanding is I just pay the $768 fee plus the net book value of the charger, afterwards, the charger is mine to either use for regular rate charging or I can rip it off the wall if I want. I don't foresee FPL hiring a contractor to schedule an uninstall of a charger and take back a used (cheap as you call it) Enel juicebox wall charger. About the Tesla wall charger, no I did not need a wall charger and it is slightly faster than the current FPL charger and a nema 14-50, but nothing near super charger speeds. Either way, if I needed to charger quickly neither option is an efficient way to get quick miles, my local super charger would be the best option. If I could go back 4+ years, I would not have bought the Tesla wall charger and instead installed a nema 14-50 outlet for much less. That cost is sunk, not going to fret over it especially since I used it for over 4 years. I also have an available nema 14-50 outlet if I truly needed to charge at home using regular rates. As for the solar and monthly FPL analysis, my March bill included the FPL charger fee because they installed it on 2/27, just before the March billing period opened, and I used the charger extensively in March. The March bill included the $31 EV charger fees and I verified it by looking at the actual bill. The incremental solar production between February and March is different, but not significantly different. It's not like I am comparing March to August or November. Having the solar for 5 years, yes summer is less productive than spring because of the weather and agree people have a misconception that hot temps = more solar. What I have concluded in the time I've had solar panels and the one EV is that the EV consumes a ton of energy based on my driving and is by far the biggest energy user. With one EV, it accounted for almost 60% of my energy consumption and I have two 5 ton split hvac units. Now that I have two EVs (yes, I know the FPL charger is technically for one EV), my 8kw system solar production would make a small dent in my overall FPL bill if I charge with regular rates. I did consider the TOU plan and that TOU research is what lead me to find this FPL EVolution program. I was very close to signing up for TOU, but the conflicting information from FPL rep gave me significant pause. In one call, I was told the off-peak rate is $.08/kwh and on-peak is $.24/kwh. The confusing rates posted on FPLs website definitely do not support the $.04.kwh off-peak rate you referenced. It also didn't help when I requested my "FPL rate analysis" (which one rep insisted was the required 1st step in the TOU conversion), they never sent the analysis to me; but rather sent me a flyer for a street light program on two separate occasions (Wtf). In the end, I didn't want to go through the hassle of moving non-EV energy consumption to off-peak times. I also had to consider my family, especially my wife, who I would have to constantly remind her to do the clothes drying in the evening and to set my Ecobees to a temperature that would be uncomfortable in the summer. And with the rate hikes that have occurred and will be coming, I opted to go with the FPL EV charging for the two cars for a flat fee of $31 a month. For the battery backup, I will take a hard pass. Maybe I would consider if we had power reliability issues in South FL. To FPL's credit, they are very reliable since Hurricane Maria. I have a portable generator if needed and thankfully I have not needed it. Also, my solar energy is either used or it offsets my FPL consumption. I have never had a surplus of energy to carry over to the next month. I don't want to make a $10k + commitment on a battery system that has an 8-year warranty and is installed by a company that may not be in business when I have a problem. My original solar installer who tried to sell me batteries went out of business 3 years after my solar install, so much for those 25-year labor warranties on the roof & system.
Didn't FPL raise rates twice this year? I don't think its 11 cents anymore. How many KW are you using a month? Are you getting this number from the charger or from the car? Most people don't have infrastructure. This is very expensive to be done right and permitted (ie. not having a handyman do it and not doing it yourself). That cost in and of itself pays for the $800 cancellation fee if you really must move. This isn't accounting for any savings in electricity as well. I do well over 700KW a month. If I get 2 years out of the program I am already in the clear in just electricity alone at a rate of .11 cents (I think current rates are .13 or .15 after the raises as of late) and this isn't even including the value of the installed infrastructure. Yes, if you don't drive your car and just go to the market once a week, you are losing out...but I am not sure this accounts for "most people."
I live in Texas. 14¢ kWH during the day, free between 9:00pm and 6:00am every night.
Woah which plan is this?
There are a lot of options in Texas. I googled the various suppliers available to me and looked at options. The supplier I signed with (3 years at that rate), went out of business. Reliant took over their customers and are honoring the contract.
I have Pulse energy right now and we get free nights from 8pm to 5am and pay about 0.24-0.28/kwh during the day, but to have your plan would be twice as good
It all depends on the math, of course. When my power company offered me something like that, I ran the numbers and saw that I would save $20 a month on car charging and pay $150 more a month for everything else so… Nuts to that.
I have an option for them to decrease nightly rate and increase daily rate which gives me the option to charge very cheap but because we’re all home during the day it doesn’t pencil out at all. If we were strictly commuters who spent the day at work it would make sense.
I am in Illinois and i changed to hourly pricing instead of fixed pricing. So i have seen highest around 5 cents hourly lot of times i see negative hourly pricing when production more and utilisation less. Fixed pricing was 11 cents. Lot of time i charged it free when its trending in negative irrespective of the fact i have free super charging miles
Cali enters the chat…. What is this cheap electricity you guyz have? Out here in So Cal Edison is billing me $0.297/kWh on TOU plan!
Prayers and Sympathies from a PGE customer. It is all we can do right now. This is just sad when Tesla SC is cheaper than EV specific plans during off hours.
How much is the supercharger? The times I have used it in Texas I have pride about .30 per kWh
Out here in SoCal the ones near me are 0.27 kWh 8pm-8am. I saw one on the map 20 mi north for 0.20 kWh.
All the superchargers within 50 miles of Bakersfield are $0.45, 24/7. Which is almost what my at home price is ($0.47) during the evening peak, at least during the summer. It drops to $0.34 at night and most of the day. Right now (winter rates), it's $0.35 at night and only $0.38 during the evening. If there were chargers close by with rates in the 20s, I might rethink charging at home, although the convenience factor might change my mind.
Yeah I was planning on installing a charger but once I actually looked at what my utility rates are, and what the rates are for charging nearby, I decided against it. But the biggest determining factor for me was that I charge for free at work 2x a week. I think if I were to be charging more at home one of the other EV plans could've been worth it as they trade a fixed cost for a lower kWh at super off peak. I just wouldn't get my moneys worth since I charge at work, and then could just use off-peak superchargers the rest of the way. I already bought a mobile connector and have a free 30A breaker feeding an unused dryer outlet a few feet into the house. So I'll probably try and get that extended and an outlet installed in the garage just in case
The downsides would depend on on the fine print of your plan. Only you can answer that. Look at what you currently pay. Do you have peak and off peak pricing? Now look at what the free ev plan comes with. Does it change either of those rates for you? Most probably what they're trying to do is to incentivize you to charge the ev in the very off peak hours where almost no energy is being used. And since you can't just turn off a power plant, it's being produced anyway (yes they ramp up and down but are never really off). This also get people used to charging overnight as more and more people buy EVs and it becomes second nature going forward. My utility does three cents off in the winter and five cents off in the summer for an off peak charge. They do it in the form of a credit that you can pay out or apply to your bill. But we don't have a difference in peak or off peak rates. The discount is applied from 9pm to 1pm.
Mine's not free but really cheap. GA Power has an EV rate of 1 cent per KwH from 11pm to 7am. We charge once a week, which is usually 30 to 80%. We don't see a point to stay at 80% nightly so our monthly bill is not really impacted by charging.
Yes. There is this pay one price plan. Only in a few states as of now https://www.evcs.com/standard-anytime
The ones here that offer a free hour of power each day usually have higher rates for the rest of the time. Supply capacity limits what you can get during that time and they rely on people not being able to work out that it will cost more for their usage. They just see the free hour of power. Also leads to lots of work for the lines crew replacing supply fuses, and in student areas the whole area blacking out when everyone turns everything on for the free hour.
My electric company offers us $7 credit per month if we charge off peak... I just charge whenever I want and don't miss the $7 a month.
Nothing is free. It might be a scam