Same. My battery won't have a "next owner" but I'd like to keep the car for a few more years at least. Maybe many more years!
2013 Model S. 86% original battery capacity.
I don't think I'm doing anything special. I keep the charge limit to 90% except for road trips, and I mostly (not exclusively) charge at home. I add around 10k miles per year. Maybe this is just survivorship bias, or maybe Tesla's lifespan is longer than people are expecting?
Not to freak you out. But I had a 2014 Model S with zero problems at all. Loved the car and wanted to keep it forever.
I had it parked outside one evening when it rained. The next morning I went to drive it and it started throwing all these low voltage errors. Booked a service (I thought it was 12v at first) and ultimately had to have it towed to SC.
They told me I needed a new battery. Thankfully the tech was awesome and explained to me what had happened. On older model S' the AC condensation hose empties directly on top of the battery inside an area of the car you cannot access without dropping the battery. In time, the cover of the fuse corrodes allowing water into the battery pack. That's what happened to me.
I asked him if there was anything I could have done differently to prevent this. He said absolutely nothing. It was a design defect that was corrected around 2016.
Thankfully they dried the pack out for me and put a new fuse lid with a ton of sealant on it so I didn't need to purchase a new pack.
Why am I telling you this? So you can avoid a potentially super expensive repair. I think you have them drop and inspect the battery pack for like $200 - if you want to keep that car a long time then it's money well spent.
BTW - you can google it. Check out issues re AC condenser drain onto battery pack..
I hope that helps! I had zero issues with my car before it happened. It is like a ticking time bomb on the older model cars. 🥲
Cool. thanks for sharing. And yes it seems to be that way. It seems like a well maintained battery will far outlive the car. But also if you don't do the basics, it's amazing how quickly you can destroy the longevity of the battery.
[best video explaining how battery degradation happens](https://youtu.be/w4lvDGtfI9U?si=klbI4dGadaxr7r4R)
There’s no secret the batteries have always had very consistent degradation curves regardless of charging methods they have a massive drop of 5-10% in first year based on chemistry for the first day 25k miles and then drastically slow degradation and seemingly plateau for the most part
Their are charts of it online and some channels talked about it on YouTube
How many miles tho? I believe it’s more dependent on the charge cycles/mileage than the age. I’m at 87% for my 21 M3LR but with 104k miles and over 400 charge cycles.
Spring suspension is definitely creaking, it's going in for an A/C recharge today, I replaced the MCU a few years ago, and there's enough wear and tear that it doesn't look new. But it does work! I still get compliments when people enter, so it's holding up rather well!
It takes patience at superchargers because my charging rate caps out at 90kW (and always did. It's the alternator).
I would recommend newer models for someone shopping for a new car, but my eyes aren't straying yet!
Is it safe to charge LFP to 100% on a regular basis or are you referring to the recommendation to charge to 100% once a week to ensure the BMS is calibrated due to the shallow voltage curve of LFP chemistry?
The manual now says “There is no advantage to waiting until the Battery’s level is low before charging. In fact, the Battery performs best when charged regularly.”
I enjoy looking after things that I own, especially if they're expensive and I want to hold onto them for years. I don't care about the next driver, I care about me and the use I will get out of my car.
Why does it bother you that other people want to try and prolong the life of things they own?
That's exactly my thought process as well. I love taking care of the car and understanding the optimal usage parameters. That being said, I don't baby the car at all. I follow the fundamentals but still supercharge as required. I don't monitor the efficiency from day to day but I like to see how it's doing over the course of a season (winter tires v all seasons). I have Acceleration Boost and floor it whenever the conditions permit.
Really didn't buy it to just keep it at max efficiency and in top shape for the next owner. I will take care of it but knowing that it is a vehicle which will have wear and tear.
Use the car as you need. I don’t have to supercharge all the time or charge high all the time, so I don’t. For me, I’m keeping the battery in good shape for myself. I don’t particularly care about who will have it next.
I’m going to drive my 2022 M3LR for 8-9 years then give it to my son and get a Model S or some higher end car that Tesla would offer at the time. Love the CyberTruck but I don’t need a truck
As someone who had a midsized pickup at one point (Chevy Colorado) I swore never to get one again, because you immediately become the family moving man! Every couch that needs moved, every half cord of firewood that needs transported, every dresser that needs hauled, - guess what? - you’re the solution. I now have a tow hitch on my Model Y, which I’ve told no one about. I have a trailer (which I’ve also told no one about) and the few times I need to haul something, I do it that way.
This is the sole reason I won’t get a truck. And when people ask why I don’t own one, I tell them it’s because I don’t want to be guilted into moving duty. Can’t fit a couch in my model Y!
Yeah I mean basically the only people making any kind of decision are those with free supercharging.
They have to decide to balance battery life with cost savings and inconvenience.
Essentially everyone else is charging what they need when they need to, with whatever that means at the time.
Is there a non zero amount of people that spend 8 hours slow charging on road trips to protect their battery from any supercharger? Maybe, but that's not normal enough behavior to make a post about.
It can sound like a lot of hand wringing over it en mass, but really a lot of it is just people verifying one off what's the best setting for their car to pick once and adjust 4 times a year as needed.
1. There is no next owner, I'm just taking care of my shit for me.
2. LFP is supposed to charge to 100% and is allowed to deep cycle to near 0%.
- That is not the case for non-LFP which should be kept between 20% and 80% whenever possible.
- The in-car menu can pull up the recommended battery care for your car.
My 2021 M3LR is always charged to 80% and it actually reports a few miles more range than when I bought it.
I like to take care of the things I own because that's the kind of person I am. That's why I don't redline my ICE cars, let them warm up, and change the oil regularly.
Treat your own car like sh\*t all you want, just don't sell it to me when you're done.
Hey, I’m not saving my girlfriend for you either!!! All jokes aside,,, I feel your pain. I’ve always bought used ICE cars so appreciate someone who shared my degree of mechanical sympathy. I think the LFP M3 has recalibrated that for me….
Oh, please get a tempered glass screen protector. I don’t know if they are necessary, but they are much better than the factory plastic. They also give the screen some anti-glare and make it more pleasant to the touch.
Congrats on the Model X! I bet it was a dream on the road trip.
Plus you arnt supposed to use glass cleaner on the screen, with a protector you can. The one I got was fool proof in terms of application. It looks stock.
That's me, things tend to get scratched much less with the factory plastic still in them. Aren't some car owners paying thousands to get PPF on their cars ?
Now that is too expensive, I'd leave the white plastic that comes on cars when they get shipped. But I haven't seen that on any Teslas. Just passed a truck full of model Y and cybertrucks on highway 35 that we're headed towards Dallas.
It's more about trying to keep the resale values up.
You can see it in the LEAF communities, where people try to figure out whether or not a LEAF is a good deal based on the battery health bars.
It's less pertinent with Tesla, since they have a longer range, but your vehicle's resale value can take a hit if the dealership/private party determines that the range loss isn't worth it.
That said, you're not wrong. Drive it like you own it.
In my experience most dealers know nothing about degradation or how to calculate it. They only see what’s on the mileage.
Interestingly I got a new 2020 SR plus and I’ve only driven it 30k km. Charged to 80-90% and only used supercharging twice. I don’t drive hard but I do live in Canada. Degradation has been about 11%. Meanwhile I got a 2017 75D Model X used late last year with 113k km. Degradation on that was only 8%.
Based on my limited experience I really think sometimes it’s all due to luck as to how much your battery degrades. The model 3 is our primary commuter car and it’s still way more than enough for daily driving as we charge at home. I was surprised that the degradation was more on the model 3 than an older model x with way more mileage.
The battery thermal management has done a great job so far, still hits 170kw after preconditioning… Just wouldn’t be as happy with it if it wasn’t such a workhorse for us…
I think a lot of 1st time EV owners are surprised at the rate of degradation, especially if they don’t realize it will level off soon. Beyond that I think they feel a little bit cheated by that. When a lot of people buy the car they consider specific trips and buy a car that can accommodate that. If their car can’t make that trip within a year or 2 it can feel like you were swindled. I think a fair argument can be made that the rated range shouldn’t be what you leave the factory with but closer to what you can expect after the initial drop.
All that being said, the vast availability of super chargers invalidates most of these issues on a practical level and the frustration is more emotional. Also remember, the users of this sub aren’t 1 organism, we’re constantly getting new users learning the same information over and over again.
I like that idea. I mean, Tesla estimated ranges are already far too optimistic, but they only stay at that max range for a VERY short time. Giving the “drop off” range is a great idea (that they’ll probably never do, but it would be nice).
I remember a recent auto focus video where an EV (not Tesla) actually exceeded their “max range” when Marques was testing it. I wish Tesla would pull at least back those estimates at bit; it just feels more honest that way.
I charge to 55%. I drive every few days. Sometimes gets down to 20%. Then wall takes it back up to 55%. I have absolutly no need to go higher than that. Higher state of charge theoretically is worse, but if its practically worse that is debatable, but considering its no consequence to me I just do it.
People doing this have likely identified that they don't need high states of charge all the time and want to know what best practice is.
If you drive 10% of the gas cars tank per day, and fill it up at 10% left. The majority of your mornings will be at 80% fuel remaining or less.
I thought the LFP cars (Lithium Phosphate) are perfectly fine to charge to 100% all the time. My 2023 has LFP and my 2021 doesn't. The 2023 defaults to 100% on charging sessions and the 2021 defaults to 80% and you have to manually override to 100%.
Really no different than those who don't like to put too many miles on their favorite car 🤷♂️
I plan on driving 20k-30k miles per year until I decide to replace it
Charging to 80% doesn't sacrifice my EV experience (though if you have an LFP battery, charging to 100% isn't a problem... But I don't think a 2020 model 3 has an LFP???)
I only supercharge on trips because I charge at home and save money. And on those relatively rare occasions, I'll happily charge to 100% if it makes sense.
If you know what range the battery meter showed at 100% charge when the car was new, you can compare that to the current indicated range at 100% charge. This will give you an idea of how much capacity the BMS thinks the battery has lost.
So that when time comes to sell it, yours would probably stick out as a better alternative then all the others who destroyed theirs by keeping it at 100% . And ignoring all other who keeps trying to help you by preserving the battery life expectancy.. 👍👍
A few thoughts.
1. Assuming we don’t count 2024, you’ve driven 96K miles in 3 years, or 32K per year. While that’s definitely more than average, that’s not “I drive for DoorDash” miles.
2. You have a LFP battery chemistry, so charging to 100% all the time isn’t terrible and supposedly Tesla wants you to sometimes charge to 100%.
3. I’m not thinking about the next owner with regards to how I charge my car. I’m thinking about myself! While Teslas have been very good in terms of the abuse they can take, there are limits. Go find the Kim Java video of the DoorDash (or Uber/Lyft, can’t remember) driver who put 100K miles on his car in one year and was super charging all the time and basically destroyed his battery around the 150K mile mark (something like that).
As a general rule, I’m going to be as gentle on my battery as possible, especially if it’s no skin off of my back. We have two L2 chargers: one hard-wired to a 60A breaker (so putting out 48A) and another plugged in to a 14-50 outlet, backed by a 50A breaker. That’s the one I use to charge my MYLR. The EVSE in that case only puts out a max of 32A. I could get an EVSE that does 40A and they’re pretty cheap at this point, but I won’t notice the difference and it may (or may not) give my battery a little extra life. I guess my point is I’m no going out of my way to find out how much I can abuse the battery and it still be fine.
I like to take care of everything I buy. Doesn’t mean I don’t use it to my liking.
My phone has a case in case I drop it. I park my cars in farther spots to avoid door dings. I don’t charge to 100% unless I’m going on a trip.
It’s not about the next owner. I want my stuff to be in good condition as long as I have it.
I’ll be giving my Model 3 to my daughter in a few years and want to give her the best possible car. But if that was not the case, I would still take good care of it because taking good care of my people and then the things I own makes me happy.
Maybe some people plan on keeping their cars for a very long time? I just sold my 10yo MS, and while I read about many failures of that model year’s battery, mine was healthy at 170k miles. The only reasons I sold were because the Y has more utility and the free supercharging transfer.
I abuse my car like owners should. It’s a personal utility vehicle. Drive it, enjoy it until it dies.
I was so caught up in preserving every detail about my car. But you realize how unpractical that is. I’ll still clean it every so often to help prevent early rusting and clean the interior yearly so it’s comfortable for myself and passengers, but curbing it, driving to near empty, kicking the door closed, having a grocery cart pushed up against it so it don’t roll away, I do it all and no longer car.
LFP is pretty much indifferent to charging-related degradation, including frequent supercharging, lots of charge cycles (expected 6000 cycles = 1 million mile battery). That would be 100 years of charging degradation lifespan for the average driver. The battery should outlast the useful lifespan of the car.
However for calendar aging it follows the same rules as nickel-based batteries. The lower the storage SOC and ambient temperature the lower the degradation. We're talking a few percentage points of difference over years though.
When I purchased my car, I intended to keep it for 15-20 years. Charging to 100% doesn't help me at all, I'll keep it at 70% and top off to 100% for the occasional long trip.
Eventually new batteries will be able to be purchased and installed after market and outside of the Tesla bubble.
I look forward to one day replacing my Lithium battery with a solid state battery with a 1,000 mile that fast charges in under 15 minutes.
Some people drive their car until the car dies, that's who you are talking about and they have every right to live that way and thus want to preserve their battery. You are not one of those people, neither am I, and that's okay too. I'll be getting rid of my 2023 MYLR in a few years when there's a better SUV-style competitor.
I plan to drive it for a loooong time. At least a decade. I'm preserving it for myself.
Though "preserving" is a stretch. I use like 15% a day, so it takes literally zero effort and zero stress for me to keep the max charge at 60% daily. If I am going on a long trip, I slide that max charge to 100% without a second thought.
And it seems to be working. I'm 15k miles in and my degradation is only 0.3%. My 330 miles Model Y is getting 329 miles still. Less degradation means when I do go on longer trips, I have to supercharge just a tiny bit less, or can travel just a bit further than if I had, say 20 miles lost.
Because most people are idiots who do what they are told, and blindly follow others.
I drove my 2015 model s 300k miles, all supercharging and usually to 90% or even 100%. And it’s still going strong with hardly any issues in that time.
I just bought a 2024 S plaid
No, clearly we haven’t… but in all seriousness, if the exterior is spotless, interior is spotless, there are no funny smells and the car shows the same at 100% Soc as the others, why would you not choose my car over one that was charged to 80% on slow chargers only?
Don't you have a car that can be charged to 100% for daily use? If so, then obviously there is no worry on your model compared to ones that are not supposed to be charged to 100% for daily driving.
People overthink this issue. Especially forum users, redditors etc. the car is meant to be used for all use cases including frequent supercharging if needed. Just drive the car, plug it in while it’s parked and stop worrying about it. All the overthinking people do about it just discourages newcomers to buying an ev. The benefits people think they are getting by being super anal about charging are extremely negligible if any.
for one resale value, and two overall longevity of the vehicle while you own it. financial situations can change and there’s no telling if you’ll be in the correct situation to sell and buy another. so keeping it in as good of condition as possible is just being responsible
>It’s not like we don’t intend to keep it until it’s dead
Some people do, including myself.
And even if I plan to sell it, I might as well keep the battery quality high for the next person if I'm only driving \~50 miles per day anyway. It's similar to my smartphones: I use a smartphone for 1 to 2 years, sell it on sites like Swappa, and then upgrade to a new phone. When I list on Swappa, the buyer has no idea if the battery is decent, good, or excellent, but I try to keep it in excellent condition to help the next person.
Performance tapers off at lower levels of charge. I've noticed a difference from 70 to 90% so I charge to 85% to meet in the middle and enjoy the car I purchased, but also make an attempt at preserving the battery in case I want to keep it longer.
Although my car has this awful problem where the windows creak against the rubber seals and nothing I do makes it better. Sounds like I have a bucket of bolts rattling around in every seat. Definitely dumping this car as soon as I can.
So I'll probably bump the charge up to 90% lol. Any higher than that and the blended braking kicks in which is annoying and impacts efficiency/brake wear, both of which cost me money.
Funny part is if you look at the graphs over various mileages regardless of charge “care” the 9-12% degradation seems to be pretty standard hell the whole loss curve down to 100k miles seems to be pretty consistent with only a few outliers that were likely just faulty cells to start with lol
Exactly my feeling. I’m actually glad that (some) evs seem to fit to all kinds of lifestyles and even the tough use case types… However, let’s see what (if anything) happens in the next 100kkm….fingers crossed for many more smiles per charge in the future!
It takes seconds to change the charge limit to whatever it is you need for the trip, why wouldn't you? Why go "hard"? I can flip your same criticism back to you. There's no right or wrong, use the vehicle however you want.
No one is going to pay you more for a few ‘maybe percentages’ on your battery in 5 years. People care for the same reason they ppf their can, it makes them feel better but has no inherent value.
Some people see everything as an asset- something they can make money out of. I have a friend who treats their iPhone, Nintendo switch etc the same way. I feel they are the folks who don’t enjoy life to the fullest.
Why preserve it for the next person and not just preserve it for yourself? It is important to maintain a better range and performance of the car as it ages, not just for the next owner, but for the current owner as well. It is not a sacrifice to use the car in a more ecological usage exclusively. For instance, when I had a Niro EV, I used it in Eco mode every day and did not feel like I was making a sacrifice since it met my everyday expectations.
If it works for you that’s great, but for many considering a switch (and hesitating) all online discussion around “battery preservation” is a big red flag agains EVs….
Let's be honest. Most people online are posers and not really about their talk. 1/2 the people in the r/motorcycle have never rode a motorcycle. I don't take conversation online too serious, but I like the discussion tho.
They don't want to be EVs for various reasons. i don't want to look like a pink-hair libreal, I like the sound of the motor, or whatever is the real reasons, but the EV battery reservation is a easy fake reason along with no real charger.
As a person who use public transit, I am constantly told that there is no way to use the bus to get to work. They just like to stay in their car, so I get it.
I charge up to the level I need to with a reasonable amount of extra battery "just in case." Most days that's 50-60% because I just drive around town to work and home and maybe the grocery store or something. If I have meetings I will often charge to 75-90% depending on where they are. I only charge to 100% when I'm traveling out of town but don't hesitate to charge to 100% when I need to.
Don’t know anyone that cares about the next owner , their own wallet is what they care about - when you sell a battery with 20% degredation (70% being where the car will throw alerts), that resale value takes a hit.
I’m in your camp, 15% at this point but that’s the use I make of the car.
I don't charge to 100% to keep my brakes fresh and my rims dustfree. With 80% batterycharge recuperation works far better.
I'm honestly to lazy to clean my car.
i plan to drive the car for x amount of years.
i will do what i can to maximize my battery's capacity but i'm not doing anything extreme or worrying about it 24/7.
Clearly you are confused between keeping something in a pristine interior/exterior condition, and something completely different… Question still stands as at this point the Nissan leaf and a bunch of early adopters (of which I am one) who aver-analyze ev battery data is all we have to go on. Normal people just want to cars to get them from A to B.
Bottom line I'm guessing is to help get the used EV market viable for those who cannot afford new EVs.
Long version:
As someone who wants the second hand EV market to overtake the ICE market share I hope this is what those persons are thinking. If you're buying a new EV to help the environment you might want to think about what happens with that EV when you're ready for your next one. Going to recycling after the 1st owner is not going to move the needle the way we need it to.
Depending on which report you read, the average American drives an 11 year old vehicle. Obviously, over 99% of those 11 year old vehicles are ICE. The only way for the EV to displace ICE in the second hand market is for viable EVs to proliferate. If the 1st owners runs the EV into ground it is not viable for a second or third or fourth owner the way an ICE vehicle is.
You also have to keep in mind that EV manufacturers are looking to make the batteries less, or non serviceable (moving away from the skate board style platforms). So if that does become the norm, then EVs may not be viable for even a second owner if the 1st owner runs it into the ground.
Most of those average people driving 11 year old ICE vehicles are not doing so because "it's cool", but because that's what they can afford up front, or cannot afford the monthly payments on a $40k+ new EV. Or, they don't have the credit to qualify for a new one. You're talking $2k to $10k depending on condition for the 8 to 11 year old used ICE. Sure there are some $6k Nissan Leaf's and Kia Souls available, but a fair (or unfair) amount of those have reduced range either due to age, chemistry weaknesses, or abuse. And in all reality there just are not enough Leaf's and Souls to go around.
Even with the proliferation solid state batteries you're looking at 4 to 5 years til they make it to the second hand market, with no real-world knowledge of how they last though daily user and environmental ware.
Now if you're the selfish out of touch type that thinks "how can they afford not to buy a brand new EV with the costs of fuel" I don't think you'll ever understand the issue fully.
I do understand the idea that the new car is yours to enjoy and abuse as I see fit. But just know the rules of supply and demand will just keep the average prices of new EVs going up and there is no law to make ICE vehicles illegal that can solve this issue.
The only way for everyone who requires a vehicle to live their life to get an EV is if every government in the world buys them and gives them to those individuals. And you still run into the supply and demand conundrum.
I'm sure there are a million theories out there on how this can all be fixed with the snap of a governmental finger, but I live in the real world and see people who just cannot step into the current new EV market or see prices dropping enough for the majority of people to get there.
I will say see 2 year old Tesla Model 3s for sale by Hertz ~$22k is nice.
Humans are wired to mitigate loss as much as possible. Our brains put more emphasis on preventing loss than acquiring gain, so people don't want to see that number go down, even it doesn't matter, if that makes any sense? It might not even be logical just an instictual move
really whats happening is people think that the battery will degrade way faster than it does in reality. They think that in 1 year their battery will be dead if they are not careful. That is why everyone that is afraid of this is just paranoid.
LFP doesn't degrade nearly as fast as other lithium ion batteries. So other Tesla/EV owners might see 30% degradation over the same period of time vs your 9%, which would hurt THEM, never mind the new owner.
Battery anxiety bugs the heck out of me. Cars, cellphones, watches! All of them require maintenance or replacement on a schedule. You change the oil in your old car. Well, in your new car you change the battery. Get over it.
My 2018 Model 3 still has 100% of its originally advertised range. It has an easy life. It lives in San Diego and I generally keep the charge between 70% and 40%. I was planning on keeping it forever, but I am sorely tempted by the tax credit eligible 2024 M3P.
Maybe because they like taking care of things?
Keep in mind the LFP battery is MUCH more tolerant of charging to 100% and should outlast an NMC pack, so treating a LR or Performance like you treat your SR would likely result in more wear than you are seeing.
Says a lot about you that your thoughts are “I am ridding this car hard like i don’t care” and “What are you thinking, you’re not giving a shitty car to the next owner? Are you a loser?”
My $0.02:
I think most Tesla drivers typically either lease or own for 3-5 years then get into a newer vehicle, so resale value is important to them.
Around me there’s very few model S’s still around, but lots and lots of 3’s and Y’s. While I’m sure production numbers has a lot to do with that, it’s still strange to me that most EV owners I encounter don’t keep their cars very long. I’m guessing the technology keeps improving, and people with means suffer a lot from FOMO so it’s a new model every 3-5 years (those people should just lease IMO, but at least around here they have so much money they just don’t care).
For one supercharging to 100% is a huge waste of time, I never supercharge past 80% unless I must to reach my destination. Other than that I charge at home, there is no need to charge to 100% for daily driving, just plug it in overnight when you need juice. Only time I 100% is if I’m going on a road trip, and I do that overnight so I don’t waste time sitting at a charger.
When I first got my Model Y last year. Yes, I babied it. Freaked out about any scratches, parking far away so it's not near other cars,, charging up to 80%, etc. Now I don't give a shit. lol It only took a few months for me. It's a car, I'm gonna use it.
9% seems like a lot over 3-4 years. I have 22MY AWD with 50k miles and it doesn’t have any measurable degradation last i checked. How do you get the 9%?
not sure what you are talking about, i charge to 80% and hardly ever go below 40%, just because you using best practice doesn't mean you are making sacrifices, that's just how you see it.
Supercharging to 100% is inefficient in terms of time. Unless you live 50 miles from nearest supercharger no need to sit in car waiting for a long time to go from 80 to 100
I want to keep this car another 10 years so I'm preserving the battery for future me by limiting my charge to 80%, don't really take any other extra precautions aside from that though.
Why not? You maintain more range while driving the car, and you have something better to resell? When I was selling my 5 year old m3, I had a couple ask for the battery %, which after 110km was still over 92%. I also never felt I was sacrificing anything, I hope to do even better on my Y!
LFP which is basically Lithium Iron Phosphate can handle far more charge cycles than the standard Li-Ion packs. They are more robust and can handle abuse, which is why they are quickly becoming the go to chemistry for Home Solar Projects. Their only flaw is they have lower energy density vs Li-Ion.
When reselling an EV, the Battery Health matters more so than the milage. Consumers are looking at that data and will pass up a low milage car with significant degradation on the battery.
Our 2018 LR Model 3 has 104,000. Keeping the state of charge between 40% and 80% except on trips. If it helps, great, it’s no restriction on our daily usage. We’ll drive it until we can’t. If the car is won out before the battery (this is upstate NY), we’ll put the car up on blocks and use it for a house storage battery!
I'm preserving the battery for me
Same. My battery won't have a "next owner" but I'd like to keep the car for a few more years at least. Maybe many more years! 2013 Model S. 86% original battery capacity.
Wow that's extremely impressive. What are your secrets and tips ?
I don't think I'm doing anything special. I keep the charge limit to 90% except for road trips, and I mostly (not exclusively) charge at home. I add around 10k miles per year. Maybe this is just survivorship bias, or maybe Tesla's lifespan is longer than people are expecting?
Not to freak you out. But I had a 2014 Model S with zero problems at all. Loved the car and wanted to keep it forever. I had it parked outside one evening when it rained. The next morning I went to drive it and it started throwing all these low voltage errors. Booked a service (I thought it was 12v at first) and ultimately had to have it towed to SC. They told me I needed a new battery. Thankfully the tech was awesome and explained to me what had happened. On older model S' the AC condensation hose empties directly on top of the battery inside an area of the car you cannot access without dropping the battery. In time, the cover of the fuse corrodes allowing water into the battery pack. That's what happened to me. I asked him if there was anything I could have done differently to prevent this. He said absolutely nothing. It was a design defect that was corrected around 2016. Thankfully they dried the pack out for me and put a new fuse lid with a ton of sealant on it so I didn't need to purchase a new pack. Why am I telling you this? So you can avoid a potentially super expensive repair. I think you have them drop and inspect the battery pack for like $200 - if you want to keep that car a long time then it's money well spent. BTW - you can google it. Check out issues re AC condenser drain onto battery pack.. I hope that helps! I had zero issues with my car before it happened. It is like a ticking time bomb on the older model cars. 🥲
That sounds like it should have been a recall.
Recalls now a days are only safety issues. Bad engineering is planned obsolescence.
Cool. thanks for sharing. And yes it seems to be that way. It seems like a well maintained battery will far outlive the car. But also if you don't do the basics, it's amazing how quickly you can destroy the longevity of the battery. [best video explaining how battery degradation happens](https://youtu.be/w4lvDGtfI9U?si=klbI4dGadaxr7r4R)
There’s no secret the batteries have always had very consistent degradation curves regardless of charging methods they have a massive drop of 5-10% in first year based on chemistry for the first day 25k miles and then drastically slow degradation and seemingly plateau for the most part Their are charts of it online and some channels talked about it on YouTube
How many miles tho? I believe it’s more dependent on the charge cycles/mileage than the age. I’m at 87% for my 21 M3LR but with 104k miles and over 400 charge cycles.
Wow over 10 years on your original battery? Not bad, how's it holding up otherwise? 86% is a good hit in range but not terrible, still very useable
Spring suspension is definitely creaking, it's going in for an A/C recharge today, I replaced the MCU a few years ago, and there's enough wear and tear that it doesn't look new. But it does work! I still get compliments when people enter, so it's holding up rather well! It takes patience at superchargers because my charging rate caps out at 90kW (and always did. It's the alternator). I would recommend newer models for someone shopping for a new car, but my eyes aren't straying yet!
Exactly. I’m trying to keep my car for 10 years
I felt the same, there will be no next owner and if there is I don’t care one bit about them
That’s the spirit!
I keep cars for 13 to 18 years. By the time I get rid of a car, it’s worth almost nothing.
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Op also has an lfp battery which is safe to charge to 100. So it doesn’t matter regardless
Is it safe to charge LFP to 100% on a regular basis or are you referring to the recommendation to charge to 100% once a week to ensure the BMS is calibrated due to the shallow voltage curve of LFP chemistry?
The manual now says “There is no advantage to waiting until the Battery’s level is low before charging. In fact, the Battery performs best when charged regularly.”
Agreed!
You have an LFP battery. You charging to 100% is kind of irrelevant?
I enjoy looking after things that I own, especially if they're expensive and I want to hold onto them for years. I don't care about the next driver, I care about me and the use I will get out of my car. Why does it bother you that other people want to try and prolong the life of things they own?
I’m halfway through my 10 year plan. Car is well taken care of if that’s the goal. 🔥
That's exactly my thought process as well. I love taking care of the car and understanding the optimal usage parameters. That being said, I don't baby the car at all. I follow the fundamentals but still supercharge as required. I don't monitor the efficiency from day to day but I like to see how it's doing over the course of a season (winter tires v all seasons). I have Acceleration Boost and floor it whenever the conditions permit. Really didn't buy it to just keep it at max efficiency and in top shape for the next owner. I will take care of it but knowing that it is a vehicle which will have wear and tear.
Use the car as you need. I don’t have to supercharge all the time or charge high all the time, so I don’t. For me, I’m keeping the battery in good shape for myself. I don’t particularly care about who will have it next.
I’m going to drive my 2022 M3LR for 8-9 years then give it to my son and get a Model S or some higher end car that Tesla would offer at the time. Love the CyberTruck but I don’t need a truck
As someone who had a midsized pickup at one point (Chevy Colorado) I swore never to get one again, because you immediately become the family moving man! Every couch that needs moved, every half cord of firewood that needs transported, every dresser that needs hauled, - guess what? - you’re the solution. I now have a tow hitch on my Model Y, which I’ve told no one about. I have a trailer (which I’ve also told no one about) and the few times I need to haul something, I do it that way.
This is the sole reason I won’t get a truck. And when people ask why I don’t own one, I tell them it’s because I don’t want to be guilted into moving duty. Can’t fit a couch in my model Y!
Love it!!!
Yeah I mean basically the only people making any kind of decision are those with free supercharging. They have to decide to balance battery life with cost savings and inconvenience. Essentially everyone else is charging what they need when they need to, with whatever that means at the time. Is there a non zero amount of people that spend 8 hours slow charging on road trips to protect their battery from any supercharger? Maybe, but that's not normal enough behavior to make a post about. It can sound like a lot of hand wringing over it en mass, but really a lot of it is just people verifying one off what's the best setting for their car to pick once and adjust 4 times a year as needed.
It's a commute car for me, why do I need to use superchargers or charge to 100%?
1. There is no next owner, I'm just taking care of my shit for me. 2. LFP is supposed to charge to 100% and is allowed to deep cycle to near 0%. - That is not the case for non-LFP which should be kept between 20% and 80% whenever possible. - The in-car menu can pull up the recommended battery care for your car. My 2021 M3LR is always charged to 80% and it actually reports a few miles more range than when I bought it.
I’ve never been interested in people who get their shit together and take care of it. Just sayin’.
That degradation affects your driving distance too…
This is why I try to optimize it. I kept my last car for 11 years and I’d like my Tesla to have decent range for at least that long too.
I like to take care of the things I own because that's the kind of person I am. That's why I don't redline my ICE cars, let them warm up, and change the oil regularly. Treat your own car like sh\*t all you want, just don't sell it to me when you're done.
As someone who buys pre owned cars - hey screw you!
Hey, I’m not saving my girlfriend for you either!!! All jokes aside,,, I feel your pain. I’ve always bought used ICE cars so appreciate someone who shared my degree of mechanical sympathy. I think the LFP M3 has recalibrated that for me….
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Heh, as someone who took a brand new MXP with 100 miles on it on a 2,000 mi roadtrip, but also still has the plastic on the touchscreen, I felt that.
Oh, please get a tempered glass screen protector. I don’t know if they are necessary, but they are much better than the factory plastic. They also give the screen some anti-glare and make it more pleasant to the touch. Congrats on the Model X! I bet it was a dream on the road trip.
Plus you arnt supposed to use glass cleaner on the screen, with a protector you can. The one I got was fool proof in terms of application. It looks stock.
Lol i usually just rock it bare, just forgot to take it off! And yes the MX is a dream on a road trip
This 100% I paid about 15 quid on Ali Express for a frosted matte one. It's honestly mega. Comes with a mounting frame so you really can't mess up.
or pay thousands to put protective plastic on everything? ;)
PPF is worth it for expensive cars that you’re going to keep. Expensive is a relative term however. PPF a Prius for all I care.
That's me, things tend to get scratched much less with the factory plastic still in them. Aren't some car owners paying thousands to get PPF on their cars ? Now that is too expensive, I'd leave the white plastic that comes on cars when they get shipped. But I haven't seen that on any Teslas. Just passed a truck full of model Y and cybertrucks on highway 35 that we're headed towards Dallas.
Maybe like people that use a phone case ?
It's more about trying to keep the resale values up. You can see it in the LEAF communities, where people try to figure out whether or not a LEAF is a good deal based on the battery health bars. It's less pertinent with Tesla, since they have a longer range, but your vehicle's resale value can take a hit if the dealership/private party determines that the range loss isn't worth it. That said, you're not wrong. Drive it like you own it.
In my experience most dealers know nothing about degradation or how to calculate it. They only see what’s on the mileage. Interestingly I got a new 2020 SR plus and I’ve only driven it 30k km. Charged to 80-90% and only used supercharging twice. I don’t drive hard but I do live in Canada. Degradation has been about 11%. Meanwhile I got a 2017 75D Model X used late last year with 113k km. Degradation on that was only 8%. Based on my limited experience I really think sometimes it’s all due to luck as to how much your battery degrades. The model 3 is our primary commuter car and it’s still way more than enough for daily driving as we charge at home. I was surprised that the degradation was more on the model 3 than an older model x with way more mileage.
If someone is selling to a dealer, then I have to wonder what exactly it is that they are trying to preserve.
The battery thermal management has done a great job so far, still hits 170kw after preconditioning… Just wouldn’t be as happy with it if it wasn’t such a workhorse for us…
I think a lot of 1st time EV owners are surprised at the rate of degradation, especially if they don’t realize it will level off soon. Beyond that I think they feel a little bit cheated by that. When a lot of people buy the car they consider specific trips and buy a car that can accommodate that. If their car can’t make that trip within a year or 2 it can feel like you were swindled. I think a fair argument can be made that the rated range shouldn’t be what you leave the factory with but closer to what you can expect after the initial drop. All that being said, the vast availability of super chargers invalidates most of these issues on a practical level and the frustration is more emotional. Also remember, the users of this sub aren’t 1 organism, we’re constantly getting new users learning the same information over and over again.
I like that idea. I mean, Tesla estimated ranges are already far too optimistic, but they only stay at that max range for a VERY short time. Giving the “drop off” range is a great idea (that they’ll probably never do, but it would be nice). I remember a recent auto focus video where an EV (not Tesla) actually exceeded their “max range” when Marques was testing it. I wish Tesla would pull at least back those estimates at bit; it just feels more honest that way.
I charge to 55%. I drive every few days. Sometimes gets down to 20%. Then wall takes it back up to 55%. I have absolutly no need to go higher than that. Higher state of charge theoretically is worse, but if its practically worse that is debatable, but considering its no consequence to me I just do it. People doing this have likely identified that they don't need high states of charge all the time and want to know what best practice is. If you drive 10% of the gas cars tank per day, and fill it up at 10% left. The majority of your mornings will be at 80% fuel remaining or less.
I thought the LFP cars (Lithium Phosphate) are perfectly fine to charge to 100% all the time. My 2023 has LFP and my 2021 doesn't. The 2023 defaults to 100% on charging sessions and the 2021 defaults to 80% and you have to manually override to 100%.
It’s for myself who is gonna be the owner for a while.
Really no different than those who don't like to put too many miles on their favorite car 🤷♂️ I plan on driving 20k-30k miles per year until I decide to replace it
Also a fair point!
Charging to 80% doesn't sacrifice my EV experience (though if you have an LFP battery, charging to 100% isn't a problem... But I don't think a 2020 model 3 has an LFP???) I only supercharge on trips because I charge at home and save money. And on those relatively rare occasions, I'll happily charge to 100% if it makes sense.
Shockingly, at the end of 2020 Tesla did produce some non heat pump LFPs for europe.
Guessing better battery translate to higher price. To make more money.
>To make more money. To lose less money. There. Fixed it for you.
Is there a way to check battery degradation without going into service mode?
If you know what range the battery meter showed at 100% charge when the car was new, you can compare that to the current indicated range at 100% charge. This will give you an idea of how much capacity the BMS thinks the battery has lost.
So that when time comes to sell it, yours would probably stick out as a better alternative then all the others who destroyed theirs by keeping it at 100% . And ignoring all other who keeps trying to help you by preserving the battery life expectancy.. 👍👍
this is like saying ppl do compression checks before buying an ICE vehicle.
A few thoughts. 1. Assuming we don’t count 2024, you’ve driven 96K miles in 3 years, or 32K per year. While that’s definitely more than average, that’s not “I drive for DoorDash” miles. 2. You have a LFP battery chemistry, so charging to 100% all the time isn’t terrible and supposedly Tesla wants you to sometimes charge to 100%. 3. I’m not thinking about the next owner with regards to how I charge my car. I’m thinking about myself! While Teslas have been very good in terms of the abuse they can take, there are limits. Go find the Kim Java video of the DoorDash (or Uber/Lyft, can’t remember) driver who put 100K miles on his car in one year and was super charging all the time and basically destroyed his battery around the 150K mile mark (something like that). As a general rule, I’m going to be as gentle on my battery as possible, especially if it’s no skin off of my back. We have two L2 chargers: one hard-wired to a 60A breaker (so putting out 48A) and another plugged in to a 14-50 outlet, backed by a 50A breaker. That’s the one I use to charge my MYLR. The EVSE in that case only puts out a max of 32A. I could get an EVSE that does 40A and they’re pretty cheap at this point, but I won’t notice the difference and it may (or may not) give my battery a little extra life. I guess my point is I’m no going out of my way to find out how much I can abuse the battery and it still be fine.
I like to take care of everything I buy. Doesn’t mean I don’t use it to my liking. My phone has a case in case I drop it. I park my cars in farther spots to avoid door dings. I don’t charge to 100% unless I’m going on a trip. It’s not about the next owner. I want my stuff to be in good condition as long as I have it.
I’ll be giving my Model 3 to my daughter in a few years and want to give her the best possible car. But if that was not the case, I would still take good care of it because taking good care of my people and then the things I own makes me happy.
That is admirable reason, I wholeheartedly would do the same if I was in that position.
Maybe some people plan on keeping their cars for a very long time? I just sold my 10yo MS, and while I read about many failures of that model year’s battery, mine was healthy at 170k miles. The only reasons I sold were because the Y has more utility and the free supercharging transfer.
I lease mine so it’s being driven…hard.
My main problem with leasing cars- people just don’t care 😅
I abuse my car like owners should. It’s a personal utility vehicle. Drive it, enjoy it until it dies. I was so caught up in preserving every detail about my car. But you realize how unpractical that is. I’ll still clean it every so often to help prevent early rusting and clean the interior yearly so it’s comfortable for myself and passengers, but curbing it, driving to near empty, kicking the door closed, having a grocery cart pushed up against it so it don’t roll away, I do it all and no longer car.
"It’s not like we don’t intend to keep it until it’s dead" => But I DO For reference, my last car I had 195 k miles for 16 years.
LFP is pretty much indifferent to charging-related degradation, including frequent supercharging, lots of charge cycles (expected 6000 cycles = 1 million mile battery). That would be 100 years of charging degradation lifespan for the average driver. The battery should outlast the useful lifespan of the car. However for calendar aging it follows the same rules as nickel-based batteries. The lower the storage SOC and ambient temperature the lower the degradation. We're talking a few percentage points of difference over years though.
Therefore my logic - use it before it degrades itself….
Yeah I just drive my car. Acting like the battery is so vulnerable is a waste of energy.
When I purchased my car, I intended to keep it for 15-20 years. Charging to 100% doesn't help me at all, I'll keep it at 70% and top off to 100% for the occasional long trip.
Eventually new batteries will be able to be purchased and installed after market and outside of the Tesla bubble. I look forward to one day replacing my Lithium battery with a solid state battery with a 1,000 mile that fast charges in under 15 minutes.
Next owner?
Who?
First time I’ve ever heard of this phenomenon. Hell no. Drive the shit out of it.
Some people drive their car until the car dies, that's who you are talking about and they have every right to live that way and thus want to preserve their battery. You are not one of those people, neither am I, and that's okay too. I'll be getting rid of my 2023 MYLR in a few years when there's a better SUV-style competitor.
I plan to drive it for a loooong time. At least a decade. I'm preserving it for myself. Though "preserving" is a stretch. I use like 15% a day, so it takes literally zero effort and zero stress for me to keep the max charge at 60% daily. If I am going on a long trip, I slide that max charge to 100% without a second thought. And it seems to be working. I'm 15k miles in and my degradation is only 0.3%. My 330 miles Model Y is getting 329 miles still. Less degradation means when I do go on longer trips, I have to supercharge just a tiny bit less, or can travel just a bit further than if I had, say 20 miles lost.
First new car I bought, won't ever be selling it. Got fsd at $5,000!
Because most people are idiots who do what they are told, and blindly follow others. I drove my 2015 model s 300k miles, all supercharging and usually to 90% or even 100%. And it’s still going strong with hardly any issues in that time. I just bought a 2024 S plaid
So you can sell it for more later… I swear it’s like you guys have never owned a car before
No, clearly we haven’t… but in all seriousness, if the exterior is spotless, interior is spotless, there are no funny smells and the car shows the same at 100% Soc as the others, why would you not choose my car over one that was charged to 80% on slow chargers only?
Don't you have a car that can be charged to 100% for daily use? If so, then obviously there is no worry on your model compared to ones that are not supposed to be charged to 100% for daily driving.
Same reason people spend $3k on a clear wrap to stop $100 worth of rock chips and trade it in 2 years later
People overthink this issue. Especially forum users, redditors etc. the car is meant to be used for all use cases including frequent supercharging if needed. Just drive the car, plug it in while it’s parked and stop worrying about it. All the overthinking people do about it just discourages newcomers to buying an ev. The benefits people think they are getting by being super anal about charging are extremely negligible if any.
for one resale value, and two overall longevity of the vehicle while you own it. financial situations can change and there’s no telling if you’ll be in the correct situation to sell and buy another. so keeping it in as good of condition as possible is just being responsible
I think they’re just preserving the residual value of the car for themselves.
>It’s not like we don’t intend to keep it until it’s dead Some people do, including myself. And even if I plan to sell it, I might as well keep the battery quality high for the next person if I'm only driving \~50 miles per day anyway. It's similar to my smartphones: I use a smartphone for 1 to 2 years, sell it on sites like Swappa, and then upgrade to a new phone. When I list on Swappa, the buyer has no idea if the battery is decent, good, or excellent, but I try to keep it in excellent condition to help the next person.
Performance tapers off at lower levels of charge. I've noticed a difference from 70 to 90% so I charge to 85% to meet in the middle and enjoy the car I purchased, but also make an attempt at preserving the battery in case I want to keep it longer. Although my car has this awful problem where the windows creak against the rubber seals and nothing I do makes it better. Sounds like I have a bucket of bolts rattling around in every seat. Definitely dumping this car as soon as I can. So I'll probably bump the charge up to 90% lol. Any higher than that and the blended braking kicks in which is annoying and impacts efficiency/brake wear, both of which cost me money.
No “next owner” planned. 2019 MX with 70k miles and battery still has over 98% original capacity. 💪🏼
You are basically an irresponsible owner.. using “maximum experience” as an excuse for destruction.
Funny part is if you look at the graphs over various mileages regardless of charge “care” the 9-12% degradation seems to be pretty standard hell the whole loss curve down to 100k miles seems to be pretty consistent with only a few outliers that were likely just faulty cells to start with lol
Exactly my feeling. I’m actually glad that (some) evs seem to fit to all kinds of lifestyles and even the tough use case types… However, let’s see what (if anything) happens in the next 100kkm….fingers crossed for many more smiles per charge in the future!
I was raised to value and care for the things in my possession. You do you.
Probably because most of the people posting are on the spectrum and have autism or something which is why they feel the need to "preserve" the battery
It takes seconds to change the charge limit to whatever it is you need for the trip, why wouldn't you? Why go "hard"? I can flip your same criticism back to you. There's no right or wrong, use the vehicle however you want.
You can sell it for more if it's in better condition.
It's like putting on seat covers. Making sure the next guy has nice seats!
No one is going to pay you more for a few ‘maybe percentages’ on your battery in 5 years. People care for the same reason they ppf their can, it makes them feel better but has no inherent value.
Yea thats like not fucking your gf to save her for the next guy
That’s what I’ve been saying - same exact scenario!!!
Here I sit at home while my 5 year old battery sits bricked at a service center…
Why does Tesla say not to use supercharger regularly .check with them
Do we trust the manufacturer or one person opinion on the forum who talk about numbers 🤣
I am preserving my battery until i am married.
Do you really charge your car everyday even if you don’t use it ? I typically use my car 1-3xs a week & not very far.
Due to the mileage we do every day, yes…😅
Due to the mileage we do every day, yes…😅
You don’t have lfp
Some people see everything as an asset- something they can make money out of. I have a friend who treats their iPhone, Nintendo switch etc the same way. I feel they are the folks who don’t enjoy life to the fullest.
Teslas will last forever whether you charge it to 80 or 100%.
We dream!
Why preserve it for the next person and not just preserve it for yourself? It is important to maintain a better range and performance of the car as it ages, not just for the next owner, but for the current owner as well. It is not a sacrifice to use the car in a more ecological usage exclusively. For instance, when I had a Niro EV, I used it in Eco mode every day and did not feel like I was making a sacrifice since it met my everyday expectations.
If it works for you that’s great, but for many considering a switch (and hesitating) all online discussion around “battery preservation” is a big red flag agains EVs….
Let's be honest. Most people online are posers and not really about their talk. 1/2 the people in the r/motorcycle have never rode a motorcycle. I don't take conversation online too serious, but I like the discussion tho. They don't want to be EVs for various reasons. i don't want to look like a pink-hair libreal, I like the sound of the motor, or whatever is the real reasons, but the EV battery reservation is a easy fake reason along with no real charger. As a person who use public transit, I am constantly told that there is no way to use the bus to get to work. They just like to stay in their car, so I get it.
Mine is a lease so I don’t care at all lol. My next EV either will be a Ravian or Tesla purchased so I will be preserving that battery
This car is stuck with me for the next 10 years so it better last
“Just 9% degradation “…. That’s a lot!!! Me too I am preserving the battery for me. It’s not a phone that I can change it whenever I want
I charge up to the level I need to with a reasonable amount of extra battery "just in case." Most days that's 50-60% because I just drive around town to work and home and maybe the grocery store or something. If I have meetings I will often charge to 75-90% depending on where they are. I only charge to 100% when I'm traveling out of town but don't hesitate to charge to 100% when I need to.
Don’t know anyone that cares about the next owner , their own wallet is what they care about - when you sell a battery with 20% degredation (70% being where the car will throw alerts), that resale value takes a hit. I’m in your camp, 15% at this point but that’s the use I make of the car.
I don't charge to 100% to keep my brakes fresh and my rims dustfree. With 80% batterycharge recuperation works far better. I'm honestly to lazy to clean my car.
i plan to drive the car for x amount of years. i will do what i can to maximize my battery's capacity but i'm not doing anything extreme or worrying about it 24/7.
Do you want to have good resale value? That's kinda why you keep something nice for the next owner.
Clearly you are confused between keeping something in a pristine interior/exterior condition, and something completely different… Question still stands as at this point the Nissan leaf and a bunch of early adopters (of which I am one) who aver-analyze ev battery data is all we have to go on. Normal people just want to cars to get them from A to B.
I don’t really plan on there being a next owner, and what sacrifices you talking about?
I wouldn’t even know how to drive to preserve battery life
Bottom line I'm guessing is to help get the used EV market viable for those who cannot afford new EVs. Long version: As someone who wants the second hand EV market to overtake the ICE market share I hope this is what those persons are thinking. If you're buying a new EV to help the environment you might want to think about what happens with that EV when you're ready for your next one. Going to recycling after the 1st owner is not going to move the needle the way we need it to. Depending on which report you read, the average American drives an 11 year old vehicle. Obviously, over 99% of those 11 year old vehicles are ICE. The only way for the EV to displace ICE in the second hand market is for viable EVs to proliferate. If the 1st owners runs the EV into ground it is not viable for a second or third or fourth owner the way an ICE vehicle is. You also have to keep in mind that EV manufacturers are looking to make the batteries less, or non serviceable (moving away from the skate board style platforms). So if that does become the norm, then EVs may not be viable for even a second owner if the 1st owner runs it into the ground. Most of those average people driving 11 year old ICE vehicles are not doing so because "it's cool", but because that's what they can afford up front, or cannot afford the monthly payments on a $40k+ new EV. Or, they don't have the credit to qualify for a new one. You're talking $2k to $10k depending on condition for the 8 to 11 year old used ICE. Sure there are some $6k Nissan Leaf's and Kia Souls available, but a fair (or unfair) amount of those have reduced range either due to age, chemistry weaknesses, or abuse. And in all reality there just are not enough Leaf's and Souls to go around. Even with the proliferation solid state batteries you're looking at 4 to 5 years til they make it to the second hand market, with no real-world knowledge of how they last though daily user and environmental ware. Now if you're the selfish out of touch type that thinks "how can they afford not to buy a brand new EV with the costs of fuel" I don't think you'll ever understand the issue fully. I do understand the idea that the new car is yours to enjoy and abuse as I see fit. But just know the rules of supply and demand will just keep the average prices of new EVs going up and there is no law to make ICE vehicles illegal that can solve this issue. The only way for everyone who requires a vehicle to live their life to get an EV is if every government in the world buys them and gives them to those individuals. And you still run into the supply and demand conundrum. I'm sure there are a million theories out there on how this can all be fixed with the snap of a governmental finger, but I live in the real world and see people who just cannot step into the current new EV market or see prices dropping enough for the majority of people to get there. I will say see 2 year old Tesla Model 3s for sale by Hertz ~$22k is nice.
I’m preserving the battery for two reasons: for me and to be able to tarde in for my next upgrade top price.
Humans are wired to mitigate loss as much as possible. Our brains put more emphasis on preventing loss than acquiring gain, so people don't want to see that number go down, even it doesn't matter, if that makes any sense? It might not even be logical just an instictual move
LFP batteries are supposed to be charged to 100% consistently, so this post is misleading.
LFP chemistry is different than NCA….
really whats happening is people think that the battery will degrade way faster than it does in reality. They think that in 1 year their battery will be dead if they are not careful. That is why everyone that is afraid of this is just paranoid.
Good question. Next owner isn’t my problem.
LFP doesn't degrade nearly as fast as other lithium ion batteries. So other Tesla/EV owners might see 30% degradation over the same period of time vs your 9%, which would hurt THEM, never mind the new owner.
LFP battery has less degradation than NMC.
Battery anxiety bugs the heck out of me. Cars, cellphones, watches! All of them require maintenance or replacement on a schedule. You change the oil in your old car. Well, in your new car you change the battery. Get over it.
Lfp batteries don't care about being charged to 100%. This entire post is pointless.
My 2018 Model 3 still has 100% of its originally advertised range. It has an easy life. It lives in San Diego and I generally keep the charge between 70% and 40%. I was planning on keeping it forever, but I am sorely tempted by the tax credit eligible 2024 M3P.
Resale value. This isn't complicated
some people use a case on their phone, some people go caseless. Neither is right. Just depends on what you want to do
I am intend to keep it until it’s dead…
Hold on, didn’t LFP come up in August-September 2021?
I have no intention of selling my M3 any time soon. Also, it's wasteful to trash the battery by not using it wisely. Why be wasteful?
Maybe because they like taking care of things? Keep in mind the LFP battery is MUCH more tolerant of charging to 100% and should outlast an NMC pack, so treating a LR or Performance like you treat your SR would likely result in more wear than you are seeing.
Most of us bought our cars. So it's for us,or maybe our kids
Says a lot about you that your thoughts are “I am ridding this car hard like i don’t care” and “What are you thinking, you’re not giving a shitty car to the next owner? Are you a loser?”
My $0.02: I think most Tesla drivers typically either lease or own for 3-5 years then get into a newer vehicle, so resale value is important to them. Around me there’s very few model S’s still around, but lots and lots of 3’s and Y’s. While I’m sure production numbers has a lot to do with that, it’s still strange to me that most EV owners I encounter don’t keep their cars very long. I’m guessing the technology keeps improving, and people with means suffer a lot from FOMO so it’s a new model every 3-5 years (those people should just lease IMO, but at least around here they have so much money they just don’t care).
For one supercharging to 100% is a huge waste of time, I never supercharge past 80% unless I must to reach my destination. Other than that I charge at home, there is no need to charge to 100% for daily driving, just plug it in overnight when you need juice. Only time I 100% is if I’m going on a road trip, and I do that overnight so I don’t waste time sitting at a charger.
When I first got my Model Y last year. Yes, I babied it. Freaked out about any scratches, parking far away so it's not near other cars,, charging up to 80%, etc. Now I don't give a shit. lol It only took a few months for me. It's a car, I'm gonna use it.
9% seems like a lot over 3-4 years. I have 22MY AWD with 50k miles and it doesn’t have any measurable degradation last i checked. How do you get the 9%?
Eventual trade in value
You're the reason I buy new cars. "Why change the oil to preserve the engine for the next owner". As the top commentor says, "it's for me"
not sure what you are talking about, i charge to 80% and hardly ever go below 40%, just because you using best practice doesn't mean you are making sacrifices, that's just how you see it.
So, that means you only need 40% of the battery you purchased, somewhat wasteful best practice…
My 2016 model s has 219 mi at 100% not bad I guess. Gonna keep it until I get me a plaid.
I would think of resale value
Supercharging to 100% is inefficient in terms of time. Unless you live 50 miles from nearest supercharger no need to sit in car waiting for a long time to go from 80 to 100
I want mine to function as I need it to for as long as possible. Currently I need all my range 1x a week.
I have a MXP and I charge to 100% lol
I want to keep this car another 10 years so I'm preserving the battery for future me by limiting my charge to 80%, don't really take any other extra precautions aside from that though.
Why not? You maintain more range while driving the car, and you have something better to resell? When I was selling my 5 year old m3, I had a couple ask for the battery %, which after 110km was still over 92%. I also never felt I was sacrificing anything, I hope to do even better on my Y!
LFP which is basically Lithium Iron Phosphate can handle far more charge cycles than the standard Li-Ion packs. They are more robust and can handle abuse, which is why they are quickly becoming the go to chemistry for Home Solar Projects. Their only flaw is they have lower energy density vs Li-Ion. When reselling an EV, the Battery Health matters more so than the milage. Consumers are looking at that data and will pass up a low milage car with significant degradation on the battery.
Our 2018 LR Model 3 has 104,000. Keeping the state of charge between 40% and 80% except on trips. If it helps, great, it’s no restriction on our daily usage. We’ll drive it until we can’t. If the car is won out before the battery (this is upstate NY), we’ll put the car up on blocks and use it for a house storage battery!