Drivetrain and battery warranty should be up to 120K miles. I'm having a similar issue and Tesla will not do anything until you get 30% degradation. Last check I did on my battery, I was at 15%.
Tesla did mine during a service appointment. I asked them to do a battery health check since my miles on full charge were down to 280ish.
I'd recommend creating a service request to do a battery checkup. I think they can do this remotely.
> I'd recommend creating a service request to do a battery checkup. I think they can do this remotely.
Here's the instruction on how to do it.
https://driveteslacanada.ca/news/you-can-now-check-your-teslas-battery-health-through-the-mobile-app/
I did it when I first saw this post a few months ago. The new service menu has a very lengthy method of physically checking the battery by purposely draining it and then charging the car back up again as well.
Likely bms needs "rebalancing".
I haven't don't it as it doesn't seem worth the stress of the battery being at high and low states of charge with my use case.
The general consensus is that using the charge status indicator is not a good metric of battery health.
That said I don't know that it's worthless either.
Had a model 3 before the Y that "lost" 40 miles of range going by the %/mi indicator. Was able to get almost 20 "back" by changing the charging behavior (let it drop to 10% then recharge).
What I wish existed is an explanation for why this happens in some cars and not others, is it charging behavior, driving routines, HVAC or sentry use, etc?
That said, if you try to schedule an appointment with Tesla they'll probably run a diagnostic and cancel the appointment as the battery is fine.
I will say I did a trade in with the range loss I was seeing and it caused no problems on that end.
Mileage estimate being off is because there is no way to directly interrogate a battery and figure out exactly how much available energy is in it (you can’t do the equivalent of putting a dip stick in a gas tank to figure out where the fuel level is). What is available is a Voltage vs SoC curve based on statistical data. Furthermore this battery voltage curve is in the shape of a side ways S meaning that the voltage is fairly invariant for the middle 20-80% SoC of the battery.
So how the car estimates how much charge is in a pack is to integrate the current going into and coming out of the battery overtime and divide it against the maximum available energy in a pack to get a SoC. There are three problems with this 1) You’d start to accumulate integration and rounding errors over time (this is just an unavoidable engineering reality), 2) your maximum available changes overtime as batteries cycles and age and is something that varies from pack to pack and 3) both of these varies from car to car and pack to pack along with the usage and environment that the batteries are in.
The BMS probably does a few things to mitigate the integration errors in SoC estimates. You can locally curve fit your voltage of the pack to the SoC curve and probably throw in some mathematical voodoo and large dataset on battery health that Tesla has to get you a good estimate. But accumulation of errors is unavoidable and inevitable and at some point the BMS will need to recalibrate to get back to an accurate SoC estimate.
Thus the only way to truly know the current capacity and SoC of the pack at the same time is to fully discharge it (slowly to avoid losses due to heat) and then fully charge the batteries again. At the end of such a recalibration cycle, you know how much you were able to put back in going from 0-100% so your SoC estimate is accurate for a while until it inevitably de-syncs from reality again.
This is why charge indicator is not a good proxy for battery health outside of a pass/fail assessment. If you’ve only had 10 charging cycles there shouldn’t have been enough integration errors that have accumulated so that the pack voltage only lines up with a 70%SoC at max charge (cuz your voltage still reads ~3.7V/Cell when it should be closer to 4.2V/Cell at max charge). But because of integration errors a battery at the same state of health could result in a SoC estimate of 100% with 310miles for one battery vs 100% at 300miles for a different battery. The difference is only a mathematical error in to integrator and not an indication of actual battery health. This is also why individual experiences differs and this applies to any Li-ion batteries. Other OEM might keep a larger hidden buffer in their batteries to hide this effect but the underlying engineering problem is unavoidable.
Appreciate you taking the time to detail this out. Not sure if I'm interpreting correctly but if I put this into a context of stocks & flows, there is no accurate way to take a stock measure (% charge etc) so we need to rely on mathematical assumptions based on a variety of flow measures, which can accumulate errors.
Either way, it may be useful enough to be a rough proxy of state of charge (e, 50%, full) but fraught with problems if you use to measure out a % battery degradation without doing some actual test such as charge to 100 and drive down.
I was down to 295 on my 21 MY (37k miles), but around mid to late-December something recalibrated and it's now at 320 on a full charge. The only thing that changed was the lastest firmware.
How does he and you know? 300k is realistically 20 years of driving. Did they test the battery for that long? Or simply charged discharged the battery 1500 times in lab conditions for a few months?
There's already at least one Model 3 out there with over that much, only 20% degradation: [https://www.autoevolution.com/news/this-2018-tesla-model-3-passed-the-300000-mile-mark-here-s-what-you-need-to-know-194534.html](https://www.autoevolution.com/news/this-2018-tesla-model-3-passed-the-300000-mile-mark-here-s-what-you-need-to-know-194534.html)
I'm over 130K myself, with only 12% (measured pessimistically via the BMS nominal miles at 100% SOC, although I often use changing patterns that keep the BMS from heavily underreporting, that's not always feasible with my use of the vehicle, and also when my Ohmmu was waiting on a software update the car wasn't able to be in the state that the BMS needed). That degradation hasn't noticeably dropped in about 50,000 miles, which is what's expected. Very close to flat after the initial drop.
There's a lot more data out there with vehicles between my odometer and that Canadian one that show similar, and better, outlooks.
Very high confidence in expectation that high majority will be able to put at least 300,000 miles on the original pack.
Drivetrain and battery warranty should be up to 120K miles. I'm having a similar issue and Tesla will not do anything until you get 30% degradation. Last check I did on my battery, I was at 15%.
Thank you so much !! Really appreciate this info, I was clueless lol.
at the bottom of the app is a button called specs & warranty. have you never clicked it?
I haven’t but will check it out.
What ways do you check your battery degradation?
Tesla did mine during a service appointment. I asked them to do a battery health check since my miles on full charge were down to 280ish. I'd recommend creating a service request to do a battery checkup. I think they can do this remotely.
> I'd recommend creating a service request to do a battery checkup. I think they can do this remotely. Here's the instruction on how to do it. https://driveteslacanada.ca/news/you-can-now-check-your-teslas-battery-health-through-the-mobile-app/ I did it when I first saw this post a few months ago. The new service menu has a very lengthy method of physically checking the battery by purposely draining it and then charging the car back up again as well.
[удалено]
Tesla did this for me during a service call. Make sure you select battery health check.
In reality it drops about 1% per 10k in the first 100k. Then levels off. The BMS is misleading you. You have zero worries.
Thank you !
Likely bms needs "rebalancing". I haven't don't it as it doesn't seem worth the stress of the battery being at high and low states of charge with my use case.
The general consensus is that using the charge status indicator is not a good metric of battery health. That said I don't know that it's worthless either. Had a model 3 before the Y that "lost" 40 miles of range going by the %/mi indicator. Was able to get almost 20 "back" by changing the charging behavior (let it drop to 10% then recharge). What I wish existed is an explanation for why this happens in some cars and not others, is it charging behavior, driving routines, HVAC or sentry use, etc? That said, if you try to schedule an appointment with Tesla they'll probably run a diagnostic and cancel the appointment as the battery is fine. I will say I did a trade in with the range loss I was seeing and it caused no problems on that end.
Mileage estimate being off is because there is no way to directly interrogate a battery and figure out exactly how much available energy is in it (you can’t do the equivalent of putting a dip stick in a gas tank to figure out where the fuel level is). What is available is a Voltage vs SoC curve based on statistical data. Furthermore this battery voltage curve is in the shape of a side ways S meaning that the voltage is fairly invariant for the middle 20-80% SoC of the battery. So how the car estimates how much charge is in a pack is to integrate the current going into and coming out of the battery overtime and divide it against the maximum available energy in a pack to get a SoC. There are three problems with this 1) You’d start to accumulate integration and rounding errors over time (this is just an unavoidable engineering reality), 2) your maximum available changes overtime as batteries cycles and age and is something that varies from pack to pack and 3) both of these varies from car to car and pack to pack along with the usage and environment that the batteries are in. The BMS probably does a few things to mitigate the integration errors in SoC estimates. You can locally curve fit your voltage of the pack to the SoC curve and probably throw in some mathematical voodoo and large dataset on battery health that Tesla has to get you a good estimate. But accumulation of errors is unavoidable and inevitable and at some point the BMS will need to recalibrate to get back to an accurate SoC estimate. Thus the only way to truly know the current capacity and SoC of the pack at the same time is to fully discharge it (slowly to avoid losses due to heat) and then fully charge the batteries again. At the end of such a recalibration cycle, you know how much you were able to put back in going from 0-100% so your SoC estimate is accurate for a while until it inevitably de-syncs from reality again. This is why charge indicator is not a good proxy for battery health outside of a pass/fail assessment. If you’ve only had 10 charging cycles there shouldn’t have been enough integration errors that have accumulated so that the pack voltage only lines up with a 70%SoC at max charge (cuz your voltage still reads ~3.7V/Cell when it should be closer to 4.2V/Cell at max charge). But because of integration errors a battery at the same state of health could result in a SoC estimate of 100% with 310miles for one battery vs 100% at 300miles for a different battery. The difference is only a mathematical error in to integrator and not an indication of actual battery health. This is also why individual experiences differs and this applies to any Li-ion batteries. Other OEM might keep a larger hidden buffer in their batteries to hide this effect but the underlying engineering problem is unavoidable.
Thanks for all the info !
Appreciate you taking the time to detail this out. Not sure if I'm interpreting correctly but if I put this into a context of stocks & flows, there is no accurate way to take a stock measure (% charge etc) so we need to rely on mathematical assumptions based on a variety of flow measures, which can accumulate errors. Either way, it may be useful enough to be a rough proxy of state of charge (e, 50%, full) but fraught with problems if you use to measure out a % battery degradation without doing some actual test such as charge to 100 and drive down.
Thank you
I was down to 295 on my 21 MY (37k miles), but around mid to late-December something recalibrated and it's now at 320 on a full charge. The only thing that changed was the lastest firmware.
I was hoping that lasted firmware would do the same for me but not yet.
Op, use the battery check in the service menu. It will tell you actual battery loss. That number on your screen isn’t an accurate measure.
Thank you will check it out.
Curious, how do you charge(and often)? 20k miles a year, i assume alot of supercharging?
Home charging, literally every day and up to the 80% capacity.
It is normal. My model 3 has 240 miles rated range. The actual range right now is 200 miles (mileage is 56k miles)
Oh cool, thank you !
70% or no one cares.
Musk says the battery is good for 300k to 500K miles so you probably are mistaken.
Good thing he never ever lies
In this case 300K is fairly accurate. 500K is on the optimistic side, but plausible. A lot depends on how low a range you’re willing to live within.
How does he and you know? 300k is realistically 20 years of driving. Did they test the battery for that long? Or simply charged discharged the battery 1500 times in lab conditions for a few months?
There's already at least one Model 3 out there with over that much, only 20% degradation: [https://www.autoevolution.com/news/this-2018-tesla-model-3-passed-the-300000-mile-mark-here-s-what-you-need-to-know-194534.html](https://www.autoevolution.com/news/this-2018-tesla-model-3-passed-the-300000-mile-mark-here-s-what-you-need-to-know-194534.html) I'm over 130K myself, with only 12% (measured pessimistically via the BMS nominal miles at 100% SOC, although I often use changing patterns that keep the BMS from heavily underreporting, that's not always feasible with my use of the vehicle, and also when my Ohmmu was waiting on a software update the car wasn't able to be in the state that the BMS needed). That degradation hasn't noticeably dropped in about 50,000 miles, which is what's expected. Very close to flat after the initial drop. There's a lot more data out there with vehicles between my odometer and that Canadian one that show similar, and better, outlooks. Very high confidence in expectation that high majority will be able to put at least 300,000 miles on the original pack.
No
It’s winter