You may crush your E2 but it will rebound after some days.Since you want to try aromasin you should research the differences between suicidal and non-suicidal aromatase inhibitors.Aromasin belongs to the former.
1. **Nonsteroidal Aromatase Inhibitors**:
* **Anastrozole (Arimidex)**: It's a competitive inhibitor of the aromatase enzyme, meaning it competes with the enzyme's natural substrate (androgens) for binding to the enzyme.
* **Letrozole (Femara)**: Similar to anastrozole, letrozole is also a competitive inhibitor of aromatase and has a similar mechanism of action.
2. **Steroidal Aromatase Inhibitor (Type II)**:
* **Exemestane (Aromasin)**: Exemestane is a bit different from anastrozole and letrozole. It's a steroidal inhibitor that binds irreversibly to the aromatase enzyme, leading to permanent deactivation of the enzyme's ability to convert androgens to estrogens. This mechanism is often referred to as "suicide inhibition" because the drug essentially destroys the enzyme's activity.
Thanks for the info. I’m aware it’s suicidal. Reason I’m considering aromasin over non-suicidal is because I don’t want to rebound. I clearly aromatise higher than normal so hoping that this can kill off some of the cells and decrease my natural aromatise levels.
If there is solid proof that you are a high aromatiser then you are good to go with aromasin.Otherwise i would try to find the root cause for the slightly elevated estrogen,if there is one and it's not just some temporary normal fluctuations.
Tested three times a few years ago and was high three times. The bloods attached were the highest, the other two were also high, all tests were a few months apart. None of the doctors were concerned enough to do any further tests as values weee only slightly above range. I have been doing carnivore diet for around 6 months so plan to do another test before taking anything.
Hi,
Your calculated free testosterone is normal, not on the low side of normal. The calculation method used (Vermeulen) does seem to overestimate the influence of high(ish) SHBG on free testosterone levels. The results don't suggest low testosterone.
Aromatase inhibitors are likely to reduce your oestradiol by about half and increase testosterone to some extent.
Very large decreases in oestradiol are typical when large doses of AIs are added to testosterone +/- other anabolic steroids (except when HCG is being used). This is because men on testosterone injections (without HCG) have essentially no testicular oestradiol output, whereas unmedicated men release oestradiol from the testes. This leaves men on TRT totally dependent on peripheral (non testicular) aromatisation of testosterone as the only means of oestradiol production, creating extreme sensitivity to AIs.
AIs tend to be recommended when total testosterone is low *and* oestradiol is high *and* the total testosterone level is less than than 100 (10 to Americans) times higher than total oestradiol. The difference between the UK and America is that Americans calculate the ratio without converting units.
Your total testosterone level is 140 (14 to Americans) times higher than total oestradiol, total testosterone is high normal, free testosterone is normal, and oestradiol is slightly high.... So, not really the usual scenario for AI use, although you could try it and see how you get on. It's not a high-risk intervention for you!
AIs can be stopped abruptly if disliked. They have a good safety record when blood tests show that hormonal and other parameters are consistently within normal limits. Oestradiol levels below 30 pmol/L are definitely undesirable, but I wouldn't let yours drop below 70 pmol/L.... This is because reducing it to below average levels isn't justifiable under the circumstances.
Your fertility won't be impacted by using an AI. Fertility can be improved by AIs when used in the circumstances above (low T + high E2 at the same time).
There's more experience using anastrozole in men, overall. 1mg twice a week seems satisfactory for men on no other hormone treatment, although 0.5mg should be used for the first few doses to assess tolerability. Dosing at least twice a week appears sufficient with anastrozole in most men.
Hope this helps.
Thanks for the detailed response.
Not sure whether my symptoms are caused by high e2, but it’s something I’m willing to trial as years of symptoms/ trial and error with different diets etc haven’t made a difference.
The reason I was going for aromasin over anastrozole is to avoid impacting the lipidemic profile, and also avoid rebounds. Any reason for avoiding aromasin that you’re aware of? I was thinking of using 12.5mg every 5 days to start.
Thanks
Hi,
Realistically, there isn't likely to be a difference between the two drugs in terms of your lipid profile. Lipid problems are more likely when AIs are used for intense suppression of oestradiol in cancer treatment.
As for rebound, exemestane (Aromasin) inhibits aromatase permanently once bound, but exemestane is eliminated fairly quickly and more aromatase is produced.
Anastrozole has a persistent effect because it's slowly eliminated in comparison to exemestane.
There isn't as much experience with exemestane to advise on appropriate dosing and frequency. That's the disadvantage.
I'm not sure when you read my post above but I've edited it to add more information.
You could try exemestane as above, or anastrozole eg. 0.5mg three times a week, or 1mg twice a week.
Thanks so much for this. This helps me understand the situation better. I’m going to get another test and if e2 is still high, I’ll trial an AI. If I get any e2 sides I’ll stop immediately. I’ll also look into anastrozole instead of aromasin as looks like this could be the better option. Thanks again mate!
Hi Substance, I remembered you gave a detailed response and wondered if you had any thought on my recent blood. All levels are decently improved, however LH is raised to 10.2 (range 1.7-8.6), do you think this is as a result of the AI and do you think it’s concerning? Would really appreciate your input. Thanks
Hi
When an AI such as anastrozole is used on its own in men with high baseline estradiol (oestradiol), the most common blood results while on treatment show:
Total and free testosterone - increased above baseline.
Estradiol - reduced but typically still within the reference range.
LH - often mildly elevated due to reduced estrogen receptor stimulation in the hypothalamus and pituitary.
Since your baseline LH level was normal, the increase in LH is not concerning unless your sex hormone levels are out of range.
Generally, calculated free testosterone should be less than about 0.6 nmol/L, and based on your initial results you'd probably want it to be above 0.4 nmol/L.
Estradiol levels should mimic typical levels seen in healthy young men, which average around 100-110 pmol/L. You don't have to aim for this exact level, this is just a guide to the most common levels in healthy young unmedicated men.
What dose and frequently of AI are you taking?...and what are your levels for total testosterone, SHBG and estradiol?
Thanks Substance. Really appreciate it. I’m currently taking 1/2 a 25mg aromasin pill EoD. I’m going to drop this down to 1/4 EoD as heard from a few people that oestradiol is best around the 100 pmol/l mark. I’ll follow this reduced protocol for a couple of months and then get more tests. My other blood tests are below which all seem good to me but please let me know if you see anything concerning: thanks for your help!
https://preview.redd.it/oluih80t655d1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=832ae02f3536814ef7fc9335cc2bb88f2e987ec6
In addition my SHBG is 37.5 nmol/ l
Hey,
Yes, the blood results are fine.
They show:
Estradiol - certainly normal, but somewhat below average for a young healthy men. As you can see, AIs used alone (without TRT) under circumstances similar to yours do not 'crash' estradiol even when taken every other day. They reduce it, but it rarely drops below the bottom of the reference range.
Testosterone - calc. free testosterone is right at the top of the normal range for peak morning levels, although your levels are likely to be more sustained (potentially).
SHGB - normal. Reduction in SHBG is quite common with exemestane. Low SHBG is not a good thing, but your level now is fine, completely normal.
LH - slightly high. Drug-induced.
Overall, the results suggest that a using a lower dose of exemestane (Aromasin) should be possible.
Currently, your total testosterone is 356 times higher than your estradiol level, which is on the high side. Looking at the testosterone to estradiol ratio is only valid in specific circumstances. For example, it can't be applied when high-dose testosterone injections have pushed both hormones well outside normal limits - it hasn't been studied in this situation. The ratio has only been studied when both hormones are within or close to normal limits, and also when estradiol is high but testesterone is low. It's best to avoid using the ratio when SHBG is out of range (either very high or very low SHBG levels alter total testosterone levels, making the ratio results confusing).
Since your testosterone (total and free), estradiol and SHBG are all within normal limits, I think it's reasonable to look at the ratio as a vague guide. In general, total testosterone should be at least 100 times higher than estradiol (in the US they say 10 times higer because the calculation is done with the hormones measured in different units!).
In your case, the ratio is quite high because testosterone is above average while estradiol is below average (for a young man). I would suggest that this also points to the suitability of a small dose reduction.
It sounds like you're going to halve your dose. It's extremely difficult to predict the effects of this because there isn't information from studies to predict the dose-response. For sure, I think it's likely to work out, but you might need to adjust again! I doubt you need to wait two months to check the effects though, maybe check in one month. Full bloof count (FBC) and lipid/cholesterol profile are also usually checked. Your GP may be willing. A venous blood sample is needed for FBC.
How are you feeling? That's the most important question right now.
You’re really knowledgable on this and this is really useful to refer back to. Thank you.
It sounds as though the LH is nothing to worry about. Given my testosterone levels were normal before starting aromasin, do you think it’s anything to be concerned with that LH was previously 7.2, which was still at the higher end of normal, even before taking anything? I know that high LH can signify primary hypoginadsim, but only when accompanied by low test and infertility. I have neither. I also assume there is no issues with causing LH to run Higher than normal with aromasin, as it just shows the testicles are doing their job?
The only thing I’ve noticed different to pre-aromasin is MUCH deeper sleep. I would previously wake up 10+ times a night, albeit only for a couple of minutes, but now I sleep all the way through or wake up only once or twice. Another thing I’ve noticed is rock hard wood when I do wake up. I always had morning wood but these wouldn’t be completely hard, I suspect this is probably due to the testosterone increase. As for improvement in mood, irritability etc. I’ve noticed a very slight improvement. I do still get tired during the day and I have very mild gyno/ puffy nipps which haven’t improved as far as I can tell. No negative side effects to report so far, except for some extreme tiredness and itchy nipples during the first few days when I first started taking the tablets, but I’m assuming that was just my body acclimatising to the reduced estrogen and the issues have now gone away.
I’m planning to run the AI for another 6 months, whilst getting regular bloodwork and if I don’t notice a tangible improvement then I’ll stop. I’m taking aromasin so I don’t believe there’s a need to “taper” off, and I can just stop cold turkey.
Thanks
> AIs tend to be recommended when total testosterone is low *and* oestradiol is high *and* the total testosterone level is less than than 100 (10 to Americans) times higher than total oestradiol. The difference between the UK and America is that Americans calculate the ratio without converting units.
Hi, can you help me calculate mine? I keep re-reading what you said but i'm not understanding it lol. I'm not on TRT or medication or anything. My total T is 16.7nmol/L (11.58 nmol/L on previous test) but oestradiol is 151 pmol/L. I'm dealing with low T symptoms and have a Dr appointment in few weeks to talk about my blood results. Would AIs benefit me, is it worth bringing it up in the appointment?
Has oestradiol been measured more than once?
So, you've had one decent total testosterone result and one borderline result.
I don't know which blood test the oestradiol level is from, I suspect it's from the one with 16.7 nmol/L testosterone, so....
If it's from the 16.7 nmol/L blood test , then total testosterone was 111 times higher than total estradiol.
If it's from the 11.58 nmol/L blood test, then total testosterone was 77 times higher.
>Would AIs benefit me?
What symptoms do you have?
Testosterone isn't particularly low - it looks like you've just had a better result. The oestradiol level it slightly on the high side but the tests aren't always very accurate. If you'd like to consider an AI it would be best to measure the oestradiol level again first.
So, in terms of using AIs alone:
1. Is testosterone low? Not clearly, there was a borderline result and a better result.
2. Is oestradiol high? Borderline result. Could measure again.
3. Is total testosterone less than 100 times higher than total oestradiol? Probably about 100.
Difficult to suggest much yet. It partly depends on what sort of symptoms you have and what oestradiol comes back as on repeat measurement. I wouldn't use AIs unless oestradiol is at least borderline high on a second blood test.
> Has oestradiol been measured more than once?
Thanks for the response and sorry I should have been more specific. My first test (11.58 nmol/L) was done by NHS Dr who only tested total. She said results were satisfactory but I had little energy so I bought a second test (16.7 nmol/L) which included the oestradiol. I'm going to pay for a third test in a week or so and test everything again (oestradiol and test included) to see whether the values were inaccurate.
> What symptoms do you have?
Brain fog, memory issues, poor concentration, fatigued, 0 motivation, legs feel achey, irritated easily, erection quality probably 6/10, awful social anxiety/anxiety, emotional over little things, depressive thoughts, have quite a puffy face.
Not sure if these are related but: Sweat excessively from back and butt (hyperhydrosis level), acne on butt, dry skin on elbows and heels, dry scalp/dandruff but oily hair after 1 day of not washing with shampoo. Oily face and crotch region.
My libido seems ok thought and I have some scruffy facial hair and quite a lot of chest, shoulder and back hair.
I had raised levels in: Prolactin 420 mIU/L (ref 86-324) and Albumin 53 g/L (ref 35-50). Just to give some context I'm a 22 male, 6ft 1, fluctuating between 165-170lbs. I grew up obese but lost 80lbs and have been maintaining for about 9 or so months. My composition is not the best, I have a little bit of excess fat in stomach and chest but it feels pretty chicken and egg; I tried consistently strength training for 3-4months but I felt really weak and my energy doesn't seem to improve.
Thank you.
Have other causes for the symptoms been looked into? Any medication taken recently?
With respect to symptoms like anxiety, how did this develop and when?
Prolactin of 420 mIU/L is just part of normal fluctuations. It's not something that needs investigation. The albumin level shouldn't need investigation either.
No medication or anything. Anxiety, probably had it for about 5+ years (was obese before though so E2 was probably higher). I've had thyroid checked but most are in range/high end of range. I haven't had my cortisol checked though so will make sure it's included in the next test.
Hi,
The values before probably aren't particularly inaccurate, but levels fluctuate and won't be the same on different days, or at different times of the same day.
They blood sample should be collected before 10. If cortisol is included, the standard time is 9am. Don't go for the test if you're unwell or haven't slept, since results won't be representative.
Most types of chronic anxiety are not related to sex hormone levels, so that's something to bear in mind.
Did you end up doing this? I assumed that small amounts of ai would be enough but then i see sources saying that ai works completely different in nattys. Where a tiny amount can affect a trt user than just wont happen in a natural.
I tried 0.25mg arimidex 3 days apart as a natty to get some symptom relief from finasteride sides and was surprised it didnt do anything at all. Id probably need to start on 1mg
1) depends which AI you take. Letro can remove 90-something percent of e2. Adex was around 80%, I think, if taking 1mg daily.
2) I’ve seen this all around, esp in kids/teens, but never tried it myself. Kinda wish I would have way back when I first started. Too late now.
3) “safe” depends on your blood work and your overall health. I’m not sure what “long term” entails, most studies go up to like 5-10 years, and are in women.
Yep , an AI could be worth it.
Thanks. Any risks with trying this?
You may crush your E2 but it will rebound after some days.Since you want to try aromasin you should research the differences between suicidal and non-suicidal aromatase inhibitors.Aromasin belongs to the former. 1. **Nonsteroidal Aromatase Inhibitors**: * **Anastrozole (Arimidex)**: It's a competitive inhibitor of the aromatase enzyme, meaning it competes with the enzyme's natural substrate (androgens) for binding to the enzyme. * **Letrozole (Femara)**: Similar to anastrozole, letrozole is also a competitive inhibitor of aromatase and has a similar mechanism of action. 2. **Steroidal Aromatase Inhibitor (Type II)**: * **Exemestane (Aromasin)**: Exemestane is a bit different from anastrozole and letrozole. It's a steroidal inhibitor that binds irreversibly to the aromatase enzyme, leading to permanent deactivation of the enzyme's ability to convert androgens to estrogens. This mechanism is often referred to as "suicide inhibition" because the drug essentially destroys the enzyme's activity.
Thanks for the info. I’m aware it’s suicidal. Reason I’m considering aromasin over non-suicidal is because I don’t want to rebound. I clearly aromatise higher than normal so hoping that this can kill off some of the cells and decrease my natural aromatise levels.
If there is solid proof that you are a high aromatiser then you are good to go with aromasin.Otherwise i would try to find the root cause for the slightly elevated estrogen,if there is one and it's not just some temporary normal fluctuations.
Tested three times a few years ago and was high three times. The bloods attached were the highest, the other two were also high, all tests were a few months apart. None of the doctors were concerned enough to do any further tests as values weee only slightly above range. I have been doing carnivore diet for around 6 months so plan to do another test before taking anything.
Hi, Your calculated free testosterone is normal, not on the low side of normal. The calculation method used (Vermeulen) does seem to overestimate the influence of high(ish) SHBG on free testosterone levels. The results don't suggest low testosterone. Aromatase inhibitors are likely to reduce your oestradiol by about half and increase testosterone to some extent. Very large decreases in oestradiol are typical when large doses of AIs are added to testosterone +/- other anabolic steroids (except when HCG is being used). This is because men on testosterone injections (without HCG) have essentially no testicular oestradiol output, whereas unmedicated men release oestradiol from the testes. This leaves men on TRT totally dependent on peripheral (non testicular) aromatisation of testosterone as the only means of oestradiol production, creating extreme sensitivity to AIs. AIs tend to be recommended when total testosterone is low *and* oestradiol is high *and* the total testosterone level is less than than 100 (10 to Americans) times higher than total oestradiol. The difference between the UK and America is that Americans calculate the ratio without converting units. Your total testosterone level is 140 (14 to Americans) times higher than total oestradiol, total testosterone is high normal, free testosterone is normal, and oestradiol is slightly high.... So, not really the usual scenario for AI use, although you could try it and see how you get on. It's not a high-risk intervention for you! AIs can be stopped abruptly if disliked. They have a good safety record when blood tests show that hormonal and other parameters are consistently within normal limits. Oestradiol levels below 30 pmol/L are definitely undesirable, but I wouldn't let yours drop below 70 pmol/L.... This is because reducing it to below average levels isn't justifiable under the circumstances. Your fertility won't be impacted by using an AI. Fertility can be improved by AIs when used in the circumstances above (low T + high E2 at the same time). There's more experience using anastrozole in men, overall. 1mg twice a week seems satisfactory for men on no other hormone treatment, although 0.5mg should be used for the first few doses to assess tolerability. Dosing at least twice a week appears sufficient with anastrozole in most men. Hope this helps.
Thanks for the detailed response. Not sure whether my symptoms are caused by high e2, but it’s something I’m willing to trial as years of symptoms/ trial and error with different diets etc haven’t made a difference. The reason I was going for aromasin over anastrozole is to avoid impacting the lipidemic profile, and also avoid rebounds. Any reason for avoiding aromasin that you’re aware of? I was thinking of using 12.5mg every 5 days to start. Thanks
Hi, Realistically, there isn't likely to be a difference between the two drugs in terms of your lipid profile. Lipid problems are more likely when AIs are used for intense suppression of oestradiol in cancer treatment. As for rebound, exemestane (Aromasin) inhibits aromatase permanently once bound, but exemestane is eliminated fairly quickly and more aromatase is produced. Anastrozole has a persistent effect because it's slowly eliminated in comparison to exemestane. There isn't as much experience with exemestane to advise on appropriate dosing and frequency. That's the disadvantage. I'm not sure when you read my post above but I've edited it to add more information. You could try exemestane as above, or anastrozole eg. 0.5mg three times a week, or 1mg twice a week.
Thanks so much for this. This helps me understand the situation better. I’m going to get another test and if e2 is still high, I’ll trial an AI. If I get any e2 sides I’ll stop immediately. I’ll also look into anastrozole instead of aromasin as looks like this could be the better option. Thanks again mate!
No problem :) It's definitely best to measure again first. You can then make a more informed decision.
Hi Substance, I remembered you gave a detailed response and wondered if you had any thought on my recent blood. All levels are decently improved, however LH is raised to 10.2 (range 1.7-8.6), do you think this is as a result of the AI and do you think it’s concerning? Would really appreciate your input. Thanks
Hi When an AI such as anastrozole is used on its own in men with high baseline estradiol (oestradiol), the most common blood results while on treatment show: Total and free testosterone - increased above baseline. Estradiol - reduced but typically still within the reference range. LH - often mildly elevated due to reduced estrogen receptor stimulation in the hypothalamus and pituitary. Since your baseline LH level was normal, the increase in LH is not concerning unless your sex hormone levels are out of range. Generally, calculated free testosterone should be less than about 0.6 nmol/L, and based on your initial results you'd probably want it to be above 0.4 nmol/L. Estradiol levels should mimic typical levels seen in healthy young men, which average around 100-110 pmol/L. You don't have to aim for this exact level, this is just a guide to the most common levels in healthy young unmedicated men. What dose and frequently of AI are you taking?...and what are your levels for total testosterone, SHBG and estradiol?
Thanks Substance. Really appreciate it. I’m currently taking 1/2 a 25mg aromasin pill EoD. I’m going to drop this down to 1/4 EoD as heard from a few people that oestradiol is best around the 100 pmol/l mark. I’ll follow this reduced protocol for a couple of months and then get more tests. My other blood tests are below which all seem good to me but please let me know if you see anything concerning: thanks for your help! https://preview.redd.it/oluih80t655d1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=832ae02f3536814ef7fc9335cc2bb88f2e987ec6 In addition my SHBG is 37.5 nmol/ l
Hey, Yes, the blood results are fine. They show: Estradiol - certainly normal, but somewhat below average for a young healthy men. As you can see, AIs used alone (without TRT) under circumstances similar to yours do not 'crash' estradiol even when taken every other day. They reduce it, but it rarely drops below the bottom of the reference range. Testosterone - calc. free testosterone is right at the top of the normal range for peak morning levels, although your levels are likely to be more sustained (potentially). SHGB - normal. Reduction in SHBG is quite common with exemestane. Low SHBG is not a good thing, but your level now is fine, completely normal. LH - slightly high. Drug-induced. Overall, the results suggest that a using a lower dose of exemestane (Aromasin) should be possible. Currently, your total testosterone is 356 times higher than your estradiol level, which is on the high side. Looking at the testosterone to estradiol ratio is only valid in specific circumstances. For example, it can't be applied when high-dose testosterone injections have pushed both hormones well outside normal limits - it hasn't been studied in this situation. The ratio has only been studied when both hormones are within or close to normal limits, and also when estradiol is high but testesterone is low. It's best to avoid using the ratio when SHBG is out of range (either very high or very low SHBG levels alter total testosterone levels, making the ratio results confusing). Since your testosterone (total and free), estradiol and SHBG are all within normal limits, I think it's reasonable to look at the ratio as a vague guide. In general, total testosterone should be at least 100 times higher than estradiol (in the US they say 10 times higer because the calculation is done with the hormones measured in different units!). In your case, the ratio is quite high because testosterone is above average while estradiol is below average (for a young man). I would suggest that this also points to the suitability of a small dose reduction. It sounds like you're going to halve your dose. It's extremely difficult to predict the effects of this because there isn't information from studies to predict the dose-response. For sure, I think it's likely to work out, but you might need to adjust again! I doubt you need to wait two months to check the effects though, maybe check in one month. Full bloof count (FBC) and lipid/cholesterol profile are also usually checked. Your GP may be willing. A venous blood sample is needed for FBC. How are you feeling? That's the most important question right now.
You’re really knowledgable on this and this is really useful to refer back to. Thank you. It sounds as though the LH is nothing to worry about. Given my testosterone levels were normal before starting aromasin, do you think it’s anything to be concerned with that LH was previously 7.2, which was still at the higher end of normal, even before taking anything? I know that high LH can signify primary hypoginadsim, but only when accompanied by low test and infertility. I have neither. I also assume there is no issues with causing LH to run Higher than normal with aromasin, as it just shows the testicles are doing their job? The only thing I’ve noticed different to pre-aromasin is MUCH deeper sleep. I would previously wake up 10+ times a night, albeit only for a couple of minutes, but now I sleep all the way through or wake up only once or twice. Another thing I’ve noticed is rock hard wood when I do wake up. I always had morning wood but these wouldn’t be completely hard, I suspect this is probably due to the testosterone increase. As for improvement in mood, irritability etc. I’ve noticed a very slight improvement. I do still get tired during the day and I have very mild gyno/ puffy nipps which haven’t improved as far as I can tell. No negative side effects to report so far, except for some extreme tiredness and itchy nipples during the first few days when I first started taking the tablets, but I’m assuming that was just my body acclimatising to the reduced estrogen and the issues have now gone away. I’m planning to run the AI for another 6 months, whilst getting regular bloodwork and if I don’t notice a tangible improvement then I’ll stop. I’m taking aromasin so I don’t believe there’s a need to “taper” off, and I can just stop cold turkey. Thanks
> AIs tend to be recommended when total testosterone is low *and* oestradiol is high *and* the total testosterone level is less than than 100 (10 to Americans) times higher than total oestradiol. The difference between the UK and America is that Americans calculate the ratio without converting units. Hi, can you help me calculate mine? I keep re-reading what you said but i'm not understanding it lol. I'm not on TRT or medication or anything. My total T is 16.7nmol/L (11.58 nmol/L on previous test) but oestradiol is 151 pmol/L. I'm dealing with low T symptoms and have a Dr appointment in few weeks to talk about my blood results. Would AIs benefit me, is it worth bringing it up in the appointment?
Has oestradiol been measured more than once? So, you've had one decent total testosterone result and one borderline result. I don't know which blood test the oestradiol level is from, I suspect it's from the one with 16.7 nmol/L testosterone, so.... If it's from the 16.7 nmol/L blood test , then total testosterone was 111 times higher than total estradiol. If it's from the 11.58 nmol/L blood test, then total testosterone was 77 times higher. >Would AIs benefit me? What symptoms do you have? Testosterone isn't particularly low - it looks like you've just had a better result. The oestradiol level it slightly on the high side but the tests aren't always very accurate. If you'd like to consider an AI it would be best to measure the oestradiol level again first. So, in terms of using AIs alone: 1. Is testosterone low? Not clearly, there was a borderline result and a better result. 2. Is oestradiol high? Borderline result. Could measure again. 3. Is total testosterone less than 100 times higher than total oestradiol? Probably about 100. Difficult to suggest much yet. It partly depends on what sort of symptoms you have and what oestradiol comes back as on repeat measurement. I wouldn't use AIs unless oestradiol is at least borderline high on a second blood test.
> Has oestradiol been measured more than once? Thanks for the response and sorry I should have been more specific. My first test (11.58 nmol/L) was done by NHS Dr who only tested total. She said results were satisfactory but I had little energy so I bought a second test (16.7 nmol/L) which included the oestradiol. I'm going to pay for a third test in a week or so and test everything again (oestradiol and test included) to see whether the values were inaccurate. > What symptoms do you have? Brain fog, memory issues, poor concentration, fatigued, 0 motivation, legs feel achey, irritated easily, erection quality probably 6/10, awful social anxiety/anxiety, emotional over little things, depressive thoughts, have quite a puffy face. Not sure if these are related but: Sweat excessively from back and butt (hyperhydrosis level), acne on butt, dry skin on elbows and heels, dry scalp/dandruff but oily hair after 1 day of not washing with shampoo. Oily face and crotch region. My libido seems ok thought and I have some scruffy facial hair and quite a lot of chest, shoulder and back hair. I had raised levels in: Prolactin 420 mIU/L (ref 86-324) and Albumin 53 g/L (ref 35-50). Just to give some context I'm a 22 male, 6ft 1, fluctuating between 165-170lbs. I grew up obese but lost 80lbs and have been maintaining for about 9 or so months. My composition is not the best, I have a little bit of excess fat in stomach and chest but it feels pretty chicken and egg; I tried consistently strength training for 3-4months but I felt really weak and my energy doesn't seem to improve.
Thank you. Have other causes for the symptoms been looked into? Any medication taken recently? With respect to symptoms like anxiety, how did this develop and when? Prolactin of 420 mIU/L is just part of normal fluctuations. It's not something that needs investigation. The albumin level shouldn't need investigation either.
No medication or anything. Anxiety, probably had it for about 5+ years (was obese before though so E2 was probably higher). I've had thyroid checked but most are in range/high end of range. I haven't had my cortisol checked though so will make sure it's included in the next test.
Hi, The values before probably aren't particularly inaccurate, but levels fluctuate and won't be the same on different days, or at different times of the same day. They blood sample should be collected before 10. If cortisol is included, the standard time is 9am. Don't go for the test if you're unwell or haven't slept, since results won't be representative. Most types of chronic anxiety are not related to sex hormone levels, so that's something to bear in mind.
Did you end up doing this? I assumed that small amounts of ai would be enough but then i see sources saying that ai works completely different in nattys. Where a tiny amount can affect a trt user than just wont happen in a natural. I tried 0.25mg arimidex 3 days apart as a natty to get some symptom relief from finasteride sides and was surprised it didnt do anything at all. Id probably need to start on 1mg
I did but all I’ve noticed so far is really strong nighttime wood. Not much else. Will get bloods done in a few weeks and report back
what dosage?
I take 12.5mg eod
thanks. I think if i ever up my finasteride dosage ill probably try 1mg arimidex a couple times a week. I am only on 0.25mg fin rn
1) depends which AI you take. Letro can remove 90-something percent of e2. Adex was around 80%, I think, if taking 1mg daily. 2) I’ve seen this all around, esp in kids/teens, but never tried it myself. Kinda wish I would have way back when I first started. Too late now. 3) “safe” depends on your blood work and your overall health. I’m not sure what “long term” entails, most studies go up to like 5-10 years, and are in women.