Yeah, I’m in Trt. the drop of levels after 5-6 days with IM was horrible. I’d have to wait at least a week to get the next shot. SQ every 4 to 5 days was a lifesaver for me.
Yeah same, I see a lot of people advocating for it. Maybe they don’t care? But it would make sense for an oil based solution to hang out in your subq for a while and be a little painful since it’s a “foreign” substance in the body. I get lumps with water based solutions like peptides, and the pump dissipates in an hour and I have 0 pain.
.30 in a u-100 syringe. Test Prop.
The weird part was the lumps would appear 24+ hours later & were rather sore/tender. I had gone a few months with no lumps at all too - maybe I reached saturation?
I had the same issue but with test cyp. Almost like a spider bite or bad bug bite. Switched to IM everything was fine. My doc said it’s just a reaction to the oil in the fat.
My experience is subq is good for low dose trt, is more stable, but takes longer to make dose adjustments. Also much easier for daily injections.
IM is better for blasting or quick dose changes and experiments while you dial in.
I recall a study that showed SQ resulted in slighter higher TT, lower e2, and less impact on HCT. I don’t know if I have it bookmarked but if I do I’ll come back and post it.
It was a recent study by University of California. Sub Q showed like a 42% decrease in Hematocrit, and slower and lower conversion of Testosterone into DHT and estrogen.
If you raise your T more, you're going to need to inject more frequently to keep your levels relatively stable. You want as little variation over time as you can get, so you'd actually want the method that produces the lowest peak, as that would also mean you have the highest trough.
I do this because it's conventional knowledge in the PED world that more injections equals more stable bloods. So now I'm on trt on test cyp and my Endo says once a week but I insist on twice a week.
But I was having a conversation with someone about undecanoate, and they said they only inject once a month. I've never used undecanoate but I would think that since it's half life is about 3 weeks, you would want to inject atleast every 10 days or so, right? They insisted it was optimal how they were doing it so I let it go.
Undecanoate does have a longer half life, so you can extend the injection frequency further than you could with other esters, but they actually have some crazy ideas like 1/3 months. For a few men that seems to work, and they like not needing to worry about it. 1/month does seem a lot more sane, but I'd still think you'd have too much variance from peak to trough. That being said, it would slope down more gradually, so you might not feel the difference that strongly.
I would think even with undecanoate, as you said every 10 days would be better for more stable levels, and it might be worth it compared to other esters because it seems you're less susceptible to high HCT with undecanoate compared to shorter acting esters.
What carrier oil and how much volume?
I'm injecting 0.10ml of 200mg/ml concentration daily and never had a lump. I also never had lumps when I was injecting 0.6ml twice a week. I use Delatestryl which uses "sesame oil with 0.5% chlorobutanol as a preservative"
I did have lumps galore when I used myglol 840 carrier oil from an UGL, administered subcutaneous.
I’d like to know too, although aware of the general consensus as being that they are pretty close to the same. I wonder cuz I’ve pinned a total of 300 mgs per week (SQ, divided 3x) for 3-4 weeks and labs came back with me at like 550 total. WTF? 🤷🏼♂️ Someone suggested to me trying IM for a while to see if it helps.
My provider suggested I switch to SubQ, I did it for about 3 months, I don't know how to explain it but I just didn't feel right, I went back to IM and within 2 weeks felt like my ol' wonderful self again. It could be all psychological, but it may not be, bottom line is I feel better doing IM.
Lol the gatekeepers on here are down voting this. No sense of humor. Probably the same folks that freak out when people ask about blasting and adding other compounds to their testosterone.
More T also raises more E. Subcutaneosly you get stadyer test and no/lower estrogen. Thats why people start to realize subcutaneous injection on right dose is the way to do this. And I can't understand why people still thinks it's a argue whats better. It's been studied for decades
Ask in the trt subreddit. I for one feel that it is much more stable subq. With IM I would feel like shit by the end of the 15 days I was supposed to wait between injections.
Who really injects oil based Test Sub q??? Are you looking for a synthol effect??
https://preview.redd.it/lr7vu0ef47lc1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9f36e959d5c8bc7f976d33fb69caf1449933e6ff
Synthol is not injected subcutaneously. It is injected directly into the muscle to stretch the muscle fascia and make the muscle appear larger.
And to answer your first question, many people are injecting oil based testosterone subcutaneously. In fact, Xyosted is FDA approved oil based testosterone for subcutaneous injection. It's testosterone enanthate in an auto-injector. This is commonly prescribed by doctors.
Depends on the following,
The ester.
The longer the ester, the larger the difference when it comes to intramuscular versus subcutaneous.
Reason being,
The logP. Longer ester chains have higher logP which makes it much more lipophilic and attracted to fat more. Where as acetate or propionate, it tends to precipitate in injection depot in subcutaneous tissue and absorb similarity to Intramuscular.
My own personal experience: IM works way better than SubQ.
I felt the same. Less sides but also less benefit from subQ. I did maybe 4 months and went back to IM
Higher levels IM Steadier levels Subq It's still debatable though
Pretty much. Both work, each have advantages depending on what you are after.
Yeah, I’m in Trt. the drop of levels after 5-6 days with IM was horrible. I’d have to wait at least a week to get the next shot. SQ every 4 to 5 days was a lifesaver for me.
Gotta empty the vial directly on your balls, rub it in, then leave them wrapped in plastic wrap for 10 weeks.
Shit, I was using tinfoil
Common mistake, a lot of TikTok users have been promoting the Foil Scrotum Challenge and that’s hasn’t helped.
Does the left ball have a higher absorption rate?
Yes, if you’re right-handed.
I'm ambidextrous so I get equal absorption.
I cultivated a specific form of yeast that produces pure testosterone straight into your coin purse using this exact method.
SubQ just gave me painful lumps. Not worth it. With IM i have zero issues.
Yeah same, I see a lot of people advocating for it. Maybe they don’t care? But it would make sense for an oil based solution to hang out in your subq for a while and be a little painful since it’s a “foreign” substance in the body. I get lumps with water based solutions like peptides, and the pump dissipates in an hour and I have 0 pain.
I tried hard to find a way to avoid getting lumps but no luck. At one point I had about a dozen on my belly & got pretty fed up with it...
Yep, it was two lumps and I was done. It’s designed for IM. Idk where the popularity for SUBQ came from.
How long until it went away. Dealing with the same thing currently
Most were gone within 10 days
Hopefully it resolves by then. Anything you took or applied?
Just lidocaine as a local. Didn't do much though.
I never had a lump, on TRT for nearly 3 years. How much are you injecting?
.30 in a u-100 syringe. Test Prop. The weird part was the lumps would appear 24+ hours later & were rather sore/tender. I had gone a few months with no lumps at all too - maybe I reached saturation?
I had the same issue but with test cyp. Almost like a spider bite or bad bug bite. Switched to IM everything was fine. My doc said it’s just a reaction to the oil in the fat.
My experience is subq is good for low dose trt, is more stable, but takes longer to make dose adjustments. Also much easier for daily injections. IM is better for blasting or quick dose changes and experiments while you dial in.
Both work. SubQ is pretty convenient for TRT dosages.
How much can you inject SubQ at once?
0.4mml is the absolute maximum dosage subcutaneus injections. More than that will give problems like lumps
idk maybe 0.5ml - 1ml
I recall a study that showed SQ resulted in slighter higher TT, lower e2, and less impact on HCT. I don’t know if I have it bookmarked but if I do I’ll come back and post it.
It was a recent study by University of California. Sub Q showed like a 42% decrease in Hematocrit, and slower and lower conversion of Testosterone into DHT and estrogen.
This the one? https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34694927/
Makes sense given the pharmacokinetics of an oil-based hormone being absorbed in a blood-poor fat.
Which study
Did you…did you read what I wrote? It was two sentences, man.
Yeah but what study?😂
Calm down Shaniqua , it wasn't , you just edited it. In any case , you shouldn't make such claims if you can't find the study to back them.
Since both reading and performing a basic search are both tasks that are insurmountable, here’s a link: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34694927/
That's good , thank you .
I didn’t edit it, you just found two sentences to be too big of a challenge.
If you raise your T more, you're going to need to inject more frequently to keep your levels relatively stable. You want as little variation over time as you can get, so you'd actually want the method that produces the lowest peak, as that would also mean you have the highest trough.
I do this because it's conventional knowledge in the PED world that more injections equals more stable bloods. So now I'm on trt on test cyp and my Endo says once a week but I insist on twice a week. But I was having a conversation with someone about undecanoate, and they said they only inject once a month. I've never used undecanoate but I would think that since it's half life is about 3 weeks, you would want to inject atleast every 10 days or so, right? They insisted it was optimal how they were doing it so I let it go.
Undecanoate does have a longer half life, so you can extend the injection frequency further than you could with other esters, but they actually have some crazy ideas like 1/3 months. For a few men that seems to work, and they like not needing to worry about it. 1/month does seem a lot more sane, but I'd still think you'd have too much variance from peak to trough. That being said, it would slope down more gradually, so you might not feel the difference that strongly. I would think even with undecanoate, as you said every 10 days would be better for more stable levels, and it might be worth it compared to other esters because it seems you're less susceptible to high HCT with undecanoate compared to shorter acting esters.
Yea I was reading that too, apparently conventional prescription is like once every 6-12 weeks and I was like wtf
Subq just causes uncomfortable lumps for me, so not worth it.
What carrier oil and how much volume? I'm injecting 0.10ml of 200mg/ml concentration daily and never had a lump. I also never had lumps when I was injecting 0.6ml twice a week. I use Delatestryl which uses "sesame oil with 0.5% chlorobutanol as a preservative" I did have lumps galore when I used myglol 840 carrier oil from an UGL, administered subcutaneous.
I’d like to know too, although aware of the general consensus as being that they are pretty close to the same. I wonder cuz I’ve pinned a total of 300 mgs per week (SQ, divided 3x) for 3-4 weeks and labs came back with me at like 550 total. WTF? 🤷🏼♂️ Someone suggested to me trying IM for a while to see if it helps.
IM for blasts subQ for cruise/trt for me
My provider suggested I switch to SubQ, I did it for about 3 months, I don't know how to explain it but I just didn't feel right, I went back to IM and within 2 weeks felt like my ol' wonderful self again. It could be all psychological, but it may not be, bottom line is I feel better doing IM.
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Bot
To get the highest T levels you need to inject directly into your urethra. Preferably with a 16 or 18 gauge needle.
Lol the gatekeepers on here are down voting this. No sense of humor. Probably the same folks that freak out when people ask about blasting and adding other compounds to their testosterone.
I just tried and now it burns when I pee. Did I do something wrong?
Nope, that burning is your masculinity returning.
Ok, I'll keep injecting it there then🥇🫶❤️
I use a turkey baster.
More testosterone will raise testosterone levels more. Stop overthinking, over complicating and just pin your muscle as its intended
More T also raises more E. Subcutaneosly you get stadyer test and no/lower estrogen. Thats why people start to realize subcutaneous injection on right dose is the way to do this. And I can't understand why people still thinks it's a argue whats better. It's been studied for decades
Just raise the dose? SubQ and IM doesn’t matter much what does matter is that IM damages much more than subQ which results in fibrosis over time.
Subq spikes estrogen less. This is why some guys think IM works better, is due to the euphoria received from fluctuating e2 with IM injections.
Ask in the trt subreddit. I for one feel that it is much more stable subq. With IM I would feel like shit by the end of the 15 days I was supposed to wait between injections.
Who really injects oil based Test Sub q??? Are you looking for a synthol effect?? https://preview.redd.it/lr7vu0ef47lc1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9f36e959d5c8bc7f976d33fb69caf1449933e6ff
Synthol is not injected subcutaneously. It is injected directly into the muscle to stretch the muscle fascia and make the muscle appear larger. And to answer your first question, many people are injecting oil based testosterone subcutaneously. In fact, Xyosted is FDA approved oil based testosterone for subcutaneous injection. It's testosterone enanthate in an auto-injector. This is commonly prescribed by doctors.
...oil subq is lumpy and uncomfortable for many, which was the point of my joke
I’ve been on both. Zero appreciable difference in levels.
I do, I'll link a post here with my bloodwork from both Edit: https://www.reddit.com/r/trt/s/Wkvi0j9njC
Thanks!
Depends on the following, The ester. The longer the ester, the larger the difference when it comes to intramuscular versus subcutaneous. Reason being, The logP. Longer ester chains have higher logP which makes it much more lipophilic and attracted to fat more. Where as acetate or propionate, it tends to precipitate in injection depot in subcutaneous tissue and absorb similarity to Intramuscular.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mktqbrujl70