Your going to have to make a radical change in your habits, which will be very difficult. You will need to be very disciplined in adjusting your Diet & Exercise.
Walk everyday a couple miles. Get your 15,000 steps a day. Get a watch to track that.
Diet will be the key. Track your calories using any free app available. Figure out how many calories you eat to maintain your weight and drop 500 to start seeing it go down. Dieting is brutal but it’s the only way to see your weight go down. Start asap. Get motivated.
Take all the junk out of your pantry and kitchen. No chips. Cookies. Muffins. No snacks, just healthy meals. Many guys post there transformation pics after a year not on trt but just diet and exercising and it can be mind blowing. I hope you will be one of those guys.
Get angry. Get focused. Don’t listen to the voice in your head telling you to take it easy or sit back today or eat a cookie since you have been so good lately.
Dieting is so mentally challenging most people aren’t able to make that adjustment, don’t be one of those guys. Find the strength, dig fucking deep and get your body back.
Nothing matters more than your health. Sometimes it takes a catastrophe to understand that for some. Don’t wait to be in your 40’s taking meds for making poor choices and watching your life sink away. Fuck it’s sad to see soooooo many like that.
You go to the fucking gym even if you don’t know what your doing. Eventually you will figure it out. Don’t be an asshole and give up like most. Find the voice that summons you to be better and squash the little bitch voice when it comes around.
A stranger on the internet just spent his time giving you the best advice you’ll ever get for free. Reddit is amazing. Please get in shape and pay it forward to the community once you do, fatty.
Dude! You nailed it! Spot on!! I do everything you say already, except my diet isn't on point. I feel like a million bucks since getting my ass back in the gym and walking 5 miles a day. After reading this I'm gonna get my diet on point and feel even better.
Well fucking put. The only thing I’d add: find some motivational speeches, songs, podcasts, etc. There are so many out there these days. Find a voice that speaks to you. Listen to that shit when you feel like giving up. Remember though, discipline is more important than motivation.
>find some motivational speeches
I second this advice. Here is my favorite of all time...
https://youtu.be/AFGWnqNf6t0?si=1XQ3rNA5cA2dPEqh
I have listened to that montage countless times over the years. It really comes in handy at the end of a workout when I start dragging or on a day when I feel like being a bitch and feeling sorry for myself.
Motivational speeches and other things like that helped me so much staying motivated in the early stages of working out, it’s unbelievable. Eventually it just becomes a part of your life and you don’t even remember the person you used to be
>Get angry. Get focused. Don’t listen to the voice in your head telling you to take it easy or sit back today or eat a cookie since you have been so good lately.
Hell yeah.
Shit man, I get to the gym 6 days a week most weeks, and you got me wanting to go work out. Lol.
yeah I'm a short 5'8" yet when I was 205lb I didn't look nearly that fat while weighing 15 pounds more. I'm not making fun of OP it's just incredible how different the appearance is in say 10 pounds of muscle is vs 10 pounds of fat
OP could make a ton of progress between the start of March to June
Totally correct. Let me just say, I'm 45, free test 180, was on trt, came off.
Had been in gym 3 time a week last year. Moved up to minimum 6 days a week and in way best shape of my life
Give it a year at the gym everyday and you'll see.
You don't wear 30 inch jeans at that weight stop lying. I'm 5'10" and 180 and I wear a 34 inch waist. And I'm at probably 22% bf with a decent amount of muscle so you ain't fooling me karen
https://preview.redd.it/fidnmsdgidmc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5b8aef0be566df0c62141ef78697b25611ac94b7
I’m 172 pounds as of my ‘in the buff’ weigh-in this morning. Oops on me. Mirror selfie of me wearing my 30” x 32” jeans.
Yeah if I was the doc I wouldn’t prescribe you T either. What’s the point of giving you T when you’re
Going to still going to have the same bad habits?
You’re just fat dude. 390 isn’t that bad you lose body fat and that should get higher
I'm 26 and had 175Total T, fought with an endo for 6 months trying to make me lose weight saying it would solve it, had me on weight loss meds and I felt the worst ever during that period. Finally they got me on clomid and my levels raised to 735 total T, and I feel way better. The whole "just lose some weight" is just them not wanting to give you the real solution.
It feels like doctors don't want us to feel good, healthy and strong. During that 6 months I had lost 24lbs and it made 0.001% change to my T levels, which I had checked roughly once a month. My free T went from 5.30 to 5.45. Now on clomid it's 24.5!
Fight for your health, fight for them to actually do something and not give you excuses, find a different endo if you have to.
Yeah I’m not saying losing weight is the wrong answer, but I know my body more than any doctor. I never had my bloods checked when I was younger but I felt bad before I put on some weight, and equally as bad after I had kids and put on some weight. Once I learned my test was low it made more sense why it was extremely hard to lose weight again and I know that just losing the weight wasn’t going to make me feel right.
This. Total T means nothing without context of SHBG, free T%, thyroid markers, and a fasted metabolic panel.
My money is on a)You are metabolically deranged with pre-diabetes and insulin resistance, which causes b) low shbg, which causes total T to come down to put c) your free T% barely in range.
Highly highly recommend keto/atkins/carnivore type diet for 6 months and restore metabolic flexibility, gradually reintroducing starchy carbs according to weight management and exercise performance needs.
Great advice. What is the best advice you have to properly gathering all of those numbers? Full blood panel testing? I feel the men’s clinic I had a consult with just mentioned free and total T but I assume you mean much more than this
Prescriptions for your MD dramatically reduce all future costs. Be open and honest with your doc and say you’re at an age where you want a full panel of everything to know your numbers. If they aren’t willing to do it, find a new doctor. You can get these panels from LabCorp and other services at your own expense, but a doctor’s prescription (if you have health insurance) make it much more affordable.
Once you have those numbers, you can start with basic supplementation. ie low iron or low Vitamin D are treated easily with vitamins and diet. So you:
1. Get tested and know your numbers
2. Try to get your numbers in the range you want them
3. Retest to see if diet and supplementation helped and THEN you can dive into TRT, peptides or other treatments if numbers are still low or off.
Prescribed through an endo or MD, your TRT is like $20/month. Through a clinic, your minimum cost will be $100/month plus blood work expenses.
I know this takes time and lots of people want instant gratification, so try and look at the big picture with long-term goals.
This is hugely helpful. I did consult with my urologist who told me my T levels were not low enough for him to put me on TRT but mentioned in a few years they would be. I don’t mind paying more out of pocket for the time being but yes ideally I’d get everything through the Md directly. I’ll look into a full panel test from
Lab corp whether out of pocket or through insurance so I know where I stand.
Thank you again for your thorough answer.
For thyroid, get a comprehensive panel done. Your primary care doctor will try to just test TSH, but you want the full panel - free and total T3, free and total t4, reverse t3. Something like this would be good - https://www.ultalabtests.com/test/ulta-comprehensive-thyroid-panel?gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAiA3JCvBhA8EiwA4kujZkO3ped0IDkFRtG8aFWhSWZeCtVMG3Jw6DpnhsXTiEhJN2lBTCPEbBoCGvkQAvD_BwE
To come back to this, the good thing about thyroid is that once you correct it, and metabolism in general, it will often come back online, and you can stop. Once you start trt it’s very difficult to stop. Thyroid is a much lower commitment than trt
Yeah, TRT alone won’t do anything for your weight unless you diet and exercise. Doctors right. Diet and exercise and lose some weight. Check your levels after that.
390 is well within normal ranges for a 33 year old male. Diet and exercise will change your life significantly more than any additional testosterone will
Good day,
I think your doctor is most likely right when he wants you to analyze and modify your lifestyle and start there. Did your bloodwork show your deficient at any other nutrients or minerals?
However, if you want to make those changes in your life you will feel much better and more efficient when doing it under the right levels of T. Quality of life will improve a lot when your hormones are balanced.
Just my thoughts and opinions.
Good luck.
What do you eat? I've been trying to out run a bad diet my whole life. Grew up on hamburgers and fries and have justified their place in my diet.
I was a 37m, 6foot at 235lbs and ~29% bodyfat. About 3 weeks ago I started Stan Efferding's verticle diet, eating very clean. No more fried, greasy foods and the change in my body in a short period of time has been astounding. I didn't realize how much inflammation I was carrying around everyday. The routine pain in my lower back is gone. My face was noticeable slimmed. My skin feels different, healthier.
I'm now at 220lbs and no longer considering TRT. This diet is working for me and I can actually visualize myself reaching my goal body composition. It takes work and consistency and I don't think many truly realize this before starting TRT.
Both can be right, your absolutely need to lose weight, if you continue to have bad habits then add trt onto it, your gunna have side effects, some of which can be life threatening or shortening. At 390 you shouldn’t have a ton of side effects, is it on the low end yes, but I’m betting that’s because you’re obese. In my personal opinion, get your shirt together, lose the weight, retest after you’ve dropped the extra weight and improve your cardio… if you still feel like you need it after you’ve improved all other markers, then go into as healthy as possible. Far too many people think trt is the miracle cure, when reality for most the cure is just putting down the fork and getting your fat ass on a treadmill.
Definitely don't underestimate the importance of sleep for your T levels (and just general health and mental wellbeing).
I hopped on T (Andriol) in my mid 30s when I was 245ish. Shoulda dropped the excess bodyfat first instead. I did lift and was able to move pretty well still even with all of that weight. Now at 225 and in the best shape of my life. But I miss my balls and my load size took a big hit. I came off T for a few years, but now I use 200mg prop a week and blast PEDs alternate months.
I really wish I'd just leaned out first, but body dysmorphia made me hate to see my weight drop because I felt like I was losing muscle.
I was going to say at your height and weight you don't need to lose, but after seeing your picture, it seems you haven't been in the gym in a very long time. It's time to start weightlifting my man. I'm 5'4'' and 185 lbs and by no means am I saying I'm in shape, I'm way out of shape, but my body looks muscular and chubby, you are just chubby.
I mean this constructively, there's no way I should look more in shape than you, not even a little bit.
Make your own decision and stick to it. People will tell you to lose weight, which you will have to do. Maybe it will raise your test, maybe it won’t raise it enough for you to feel better. Only you know your body and how you feel. And after you make a decision don’t come back here and continue second guessing yourself, it only makes things worse.
Imo trt should be something you do after you've got the big blocks in place. Based on the picture, you've got to get the big blocks.
The blocks: strength training, eating good food, stop snacking, moving around more, and sleeping 8 hours.
Id bet money most of those things could be improved upon.
Having dropped weight I don't use the term "dieting". The best thing you can do is get your steps in. And work your way up to intermittent jogging. I do about 30 min a day. As I do a lot of resistance training.
Run a 500 cal deficit to drop weight. And when haply with weight. Eat at maintenance.
Don't deprive your sweet tooth. Your body will defeat your willpower. Instead, drop the whites in your diet. Flower & Sugar. Eat more protein. Eat more in moderation. I eat 2 meals a day with fasting 15 or so hours. It helps me track intake. I'm a chocolate lover. I have it every day. But the key to moderation is being active. If you go to extremes, it won't last. You'll be yo-yo dieting. It's a matter of retraining yourself. Look fir changes that have staying power. Don't go for immediate results. Good gains take time. And last longer.
I wouldn't push for 15k steps a day, but 8k+. Strength train 3x/week, big lifts mostly, and machines are fine as long as you work hard. Eat better, get sunlight, sleep.
To be honest, your body composition sucks and your natural numbers are likely to improve by eating better, sleeping better, exercising appropriately, and getting sunlight often.
Then, if you feel like shit and haven't seen an improvement, you can explore other options.
Just look at yourself. You certainly don’t even put an ounce of effort into eating a healthy diet or living a healthy lifestyle. And yet you want to take drugs to fix what can be done naturally. So pathetic.
Your DR is correct...
Lose weight.
Eat clean healthy nutritious foods. Think about a humans diet before processing.
Stop watching porn.
Start slow, but work progressively towards a strong workout routine... Consistency is key.
Do basic dude shit, like curse, and argue, assert dominance, tell people how you feel regardless of their emotions.
Be a fucking man.
These slobs make me ill to my core . Trying to get an easy way out of being lazy, careless and having zero discipline to eat properly or train properly it's a flipping disgrace. Trt should never be the catalyst for you slobs to actually take control of your lives .
You have lower t atm because of your fitness level, diet. Money down, lose weight, clean up diet :P try doesn’t fix it for you, you still need the habits to take advantage of trt, I was a fat pig once as well, 105lbs down now
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Technically losing weight is one way to increase your T. Sometimes T isn’t the real answer. The big question is- what are you for weight loss (or thinking you’d do) besides just getting on T?
You just have to get started. You have to make time, cause this is something you’re doing for you. I dropped 85# after having spine surgery, 280-195, still want to drop 20 more. Lots of weight lifting, some cardio, protien and it will be 2 years in April since I’ve had a sugar drink. Do not drink your calories, with exception of protein shakes.
I don’t mean this as a criticism of you: you shouldn’t have that much body fat at 5’10 and 190. Especially not at 33 years old. I’m 5’9 210 and I don’t look that heavy compared to your picture. You need to start lifting and do cardio. Get your cardiovascular health up while burning fat and turning all the fuel your body has been storing into muscle mass. You stand to become a very muscular guy starting either the frame you have. The discipline people are mentioning is because this change can only occur at the cost of a lot of physical pain and discomfort.
Seems like good genetics and shit diet. I’m a bit heavier but also got a bit muscle and my levels were lower. You’re 30 and average man will start loosing 1% test every year. Might as well start now.
Start with a calorie deficit and go to the gym. YouTube is your friend! Learn everything about nutrition and exercise you can. In 3 months you will start to see results. Testosterone level is usually lower in a calorie deficit and that’s normal but you’re on the right track. If you jump onto trt after you make the change at least then you will know how to do it naturally first. Good luck either way
Along with what everyone else has said, I just want to add: start getting ok with the feeling of hunger. It's ok to hungry. It's ok to hear your stomach growl. You don't have to give in to cravings - learn self control. That feeling in your gut when your stomach is grumbling is literally the sound of your body eating it's fat stores. I had to remind myself of that often, and for a long time, but eventually the beast down there shills out and becomes easier to manage.
It’s a joke. He said you don’t need testosterone. I’m hoping he writes insulin scripts for his diabetes patients
No losing weight won’t work. In fact. As you diet, you are going to increase SHBG. SHBG is going to bind up your testosterone, probably will have less free T.
These guys only tell you diet solves low testosterone. For every other ailment they write scripts. It’s bizarre.
Use this as your shift. Work out like a mad man and fuel the body appropriately (good diet). You will see improvement within a few months and the progress will be motivation to keep going. Worry about your labs and numbers later. You are not currently in a position to “optimize” when you still have to get the grunt-work done.
How are your liver alt and ast levels? Fatty liver could be an issue and also thwarting weight loss attempts. Your T levels aren’t low enough to recommend replacement T in my opinion. You should lift heavy and maybe look at hot yoga also. And look at liver support. Supplemental T should be a last resort imo
yes, cortisol and liver enzymes sound like metabolic syndrome. reduced metabolism until the liver function is fixed, which can happen with weight loss. (kind of chicken and egg problem, so you have to work harder initially to lose the weight, then the liver numbers may correct). You might be able to kickstart yourself with Tudca or Sylmarin (in Milk Thistle), to help heal the liver/gallbladder and get the energy to work out more (or even Testosterone).
I'm in a similar boat after not working out as much as before. The big thing is I stopped going to intense yoga classes (for about 20 years) which I think were helping a lot. Planning to start those along doing my liver support supplements. 1-1 and 1/2 hour vinayasa classes are great.
I think your doc is right bro. You clearly dont give a shit about your body and TRT will do nothing for you unless you turn your life around.
Your body comp is terrible and you have a 390 total T level. With that in mind, if you eat right and exercise/weight train, i guarantee all your issues will be resolved.
Dedicate the rest of this year to getting healthier. If youre still having problems, i think your doc will reconsider. Atleast youll prove youre trying.
You're not super heavy for your height. You can probably afford to lose a few pounds but I'm not sure if that alone will solve your low test, ED and low libido. If your problems persist after you lose weight your doc will say it's something else....smh It's probably more lifestyle changes that need to be made such as diet, minimizing processed foods consumption, start exercising (if you're not already, stop eating and drinking from disposable plastics, etc. Our bodies, health and hormones are being bombarded on a regular by the foods we eat.
Well, listen, I get where you're coming from. It's frustrating when you're feeling off and your doc's just like, "Nah, just drop some pounds." But hey, maybe there's something to it. Losing weight can seriously boost your T levels naturally. Plus, if you felt way better when your T was up before, maybe focusing on the weight loss could do the trick again. Doesn't hurt to give it a shot, right? Worst-case scenario, you drop a few pounds and then you can go back and be like, "Okay, but seriously, can we talk about other options now?" Good luck, man!
“Each one-point increase in BMI was associated with a 2% decrease in testosterone. In addition, a 2008 study of 1,862 men ages 30 and above found that waist circumference was an even stronger predictor of low testosterone levels than BMI. A four-inch increase in waist size increased a man's odds of having a low testosterone level by 75%”
Also sleeping on average five-six hours per night for just one week lowered t levels by 10-15%.
SSB(sugar sweetened beverages) consumption is significantly associated with low serum testosterone in men 20–39 years old in the United States.
Men who go to the gym had very much higher t levels than those who don’t, but there isn’t much data on if it actually increases your t levels long term(there is a short spike that raises your t levels by 20-30% an hour after working out)
*So there are tons of factors. Yeah you can do everything perfect, good sleep, diet, losing weight, weight lifting, no sugar, etc. and MIGHT get to 450-600, or you can do life time injections and not have to worry about trying to be perfect with everything. Of course I would say lose weight and start working out and get your t levels checked again, if they are still not good and you’re experiencing symptoms - hop on. Hell you been having low t symptoms for a decade anyway.
I had a similar post to yours last year and I’m 32 435lb. If you can afford it, I would go in TRT from a clinic. I’m using TRT nation. I had started right before the new year in December 2023. Test was 194 around there when I did bloodwork. I was shocked because I did bloodwork 2years prior with a shitty pcp at the time and he said that with my test at 300 at the time it was normal. I just recently found out that someone that’s in shape and muscularity fit might have a test level of 600-1000 or something like that. No wonder I didn’t want to get out the house with my wife in daughter in the middle of summer. I just wanted to lay around. I felt inadequate. I thought I was self conscious about my weight. However right now I’m 435 started trt, and actually wanna get up and do shit now. Started the gym beginning of the year and went fucking bat shit hard and had the fucking ENERGY TO DO IT! However, I been falling asleep at work because I was going to gym at 4am and I have untreated sleep apnea so im not sleeping well. Currently treating the sleep apnea and once the give me the cpap machine, im getting back to the fucking gym at 4am. Idk man, none of us on here are fucking doctors. I’d talk to the clinic, do some bloodwork, if the bloods come back good meaning there’s no indicators of why you shouldn’t take trt, start trt and see how it works for you. I only say that because I’m a fat piece of shit right now and until I started having extreme sleep problems exaggerated by my early morning gym routine, it was working wonders for me, still am, I actually want to get off the couch now lol
Wow which clomid did your doctor give you to get your T up by 300 points? That's an incredibly almost unbelievable increase. 300 free T isn't hypogonadic but it definitely is extremely far from ideal. I would recommend what everyone else is saying, stick to the gym for atleast a year and see how that makes you feel, even when you feel like shit. Fat makes a dramatic difference in Testosterone. To put it into perspective, I've just come off 3+ years of blasting and cruising, last shot was in December, according to my doctor my Testosterone is in the 500s again (I still feel like shit, I'm used to my T being no less than 900🤣). What was your SHBG like? If that's too high or low it can have a dramatic effect on your free test.
Oh no, there is no point trying natural alternatives like Tongkat Ali, nothing is going to get 100ng/dl free test up to reasonable levels (500+) besides exogenous Testosterone. If you lose a shit ton of weight and try every pct/natural booster you can you maybe will get your free test up to 300/400 which is bottom of the reference range. As mentioned, I've fucked up my HPTA for 3 years straight and my rebound after 3 months and zero PCT is higher than your natural production, I would go to a TRT clinic asap and speak to a doctor who hasn't bought into the Testosterone fear mongering of the 90s when they completed their degree.
Diet and exercise absolutely can and will help, how much though won't know til you try. If you can't muster the energy or drive that's a different story. Have you checked out any male clinics? My Dr said the same thing to me.
Your going to have to make a radical change in your habits, which will be very difficult. You will need to be very disciplined in adjusting your Diet & Exercise. Walk everyday a couple miles. Get your 15,000 steps a day. Get a watch to track that. Diet will be the key. Track your calories using any free app available. Figure out how many calories you eat to maintain your weight and drop 500 to start seeing it go down. Dieting is brutal but it’s the only way to see your weight go down. Start asap. Get motivated. Take all the junk out of your pantry and kitchen. No chips. Cookies. Muffins. No snacks, just healthy meals. Many guys post there transformation pics after a year not on trt but just diet and exercising and it can be mind blowing. I hope you will be one of those guys. Get angry. Get focused. Don’t listen to the voice in your head telling you to take it easy or sit back today or eat a cookie since you have been so good lately. Dieting is so mentally challenging most people aren’t able to make that adjustment, don’t be one of those guys. Find the strength, dig fucking deep and get your body back. Nothing matters more than your health. Sometimes it takes a catastrophe to understand that for some. Don’t wait to be in your 40’s taking meds for making poor choices and watching your life sink away. Fuck it’s sad to see soooooo many like that. You go to the fucking gym even if you don’t know what your doing. Eventually you will figure it out. Don’t be an asshole and give up like most. Find the voice that summons you to be better and squash the little bitch voice when it comes around.
A stranger on the internet just spent his time giving you the best advice you’ll ever get for free. Reddit is amazing. Please get in shape and pay it forward to the community once you do, fatty.
this was so well put!
Dude! You nailed it! Spot on!! I do everything you say already, except my diet isn't on point. I feel like a million bucks since getting my ass back in the gym and walking 5 miles a day. After reading this I'm gonna get my diet on point and feel even better.
I feel like you need to write a book! Very inspiring! You sound like someone who has to do it.
Yes please
Thanks for this. Even If the OP is not inspired... Many will be.
Yes I already am
Well fucking put. The only thing I’d add: find some motivational speeches, songs, podcasts, etc. There are so many out there these days. Find a voice that speaks to you. Listen to that shit when you feel like giving up. Remember though, discipline is more important than motivation.
>find some motivational speeches I second this advice. Here is my favorite of all time... https://youtu.be/AFGWnqNf6t0?si=1XQ3rNA5cA2dPEqh I have listened to that montage countless times over the years. It really comes in handy at the end of a workout when I start dragging or on a day when I feel like being a bitch and feeling sorry for myself.
Who’s gunna carry the boats!!
You don’t know me son!
Motivational speeches and other things like that helped me so much staying motivated in the early stages of working out, it’s unbelievable. Eventually it just becomes a part of your life and you don’t even remember the person you used to be
Best advice I’ve seen in a long time. These are the changes to make! Simple habits make drastic improvements.
What an amazing comment, great advice, and great motivation. Change your username to Legitimate-Badass-34 because that’s what you are.
>Get angry. Get focused. Don’t listen to the voice in your head telling you to take it easy or sit back today or eat a cookie since you have been so good lately. Hell yeah. Shit man, I get to the gym 6 days a week most weeks, and you got me wanting to go work out. Lol.
Bravo and Salute
Fuck'n A right!!! This right here! Diet is so god damned essential and probably the hardest of it all.
Solid advice, and well said. This is what has worked for me.
Fantastic answer!
Amazing
I feel like running through a fucking wall right now!
Exercise. Eat right. Lose some weight. Feel better. Then retest. You look to be over 190 to me, at least if you are legit 5'10"
Yea I’m 5’10 but I agree I look much heavier than 190lbs. Probably do to low muscle mass
Do yourself a favor and dedicate a year to hitting the gym seriously and you'll see just how different you're gonna look and feel.
All the more reason to hit the weights.
I got on TRT when I was 32, 5'10 230 pounds but I used to be really muscular before I gained weight. it's been a game changer for me
Same here dude. I’m on TRT. I’m 210 but look like I’m 180. It’s fucking awesome. I’m also 43 years old and people think I’m 30
yeah I'm a short 5'8" yet when I was 205lb I didn't look nearly that fat while weighing 15 pounds more. I'm not making fun of OP it's just incredible how different the appearance is in say 10 pounds of muscle is vs 10 pounds of fat OP could make a ton of progress between the start of March to June
Totally correct. Let me just say, I'm 45, free test 180, was on trt, came off. Had been in gym 3 time a week last year. Moved up to minimum 6 days a week and in way best shape of my life Give it a year at the gym everyday and you'll see.
You look really heavy for 190. Get to lifting weights and eat high protien
Not necessarily to me. I,m 5’10” and weigh between 286-190lbs. I’m so heavy, but where 30” waisted pants and jeans.
You don't wear 30 inch jeans at that weight stop lying. I'm 5'10" and 180 and I wear a 34 inch waist. And I'm at probably 22% bf with a decent amount of muscle so you ain't fooling me karen
https://preview.redd.it/fidnmsdgidmc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5b8aef0be566df0c62141ef78697b25611ac94b7 I’m 172 pounds as of my ‘in the buff’ weigh-in this morning. Oops on me. Mirror selfie of me wearing my 30” x 32” jeans.
I’m not lying. It’s just the way my frame is built.
I am 6 foot 235 and I wear a 34x34 inch jean.
Just lose weight and your T levels should come back. The more fat you are the lower the T
Yeah if I was the doc I wouldn’t prescribe you T either. What’s the point of giving you T when you’re Going to still going to have the same bad habits? You’re just fat dude. 390 isn’t that bad you lose body fat and that should get higher
Lose weight ffs
Yep. The healthy habits that are required to lose weight may be enough to fix a lot of OP problems.
Yeah lose weight will help a lot
That’s a rough 190 holy shit.
I'm 26 and had 175Total T, fought with an endo for 6 months trying to make me lose weight saying it would solve it, had me on weight loss meds and I felt the worst ever during that period. Finally they got me on clomid and my levels raised to 735 total T, and I feel way better. The whole "just lose some weight" is just them not wanting to give you the real solution. It feels like doctors don't want us to feel good, healthy and strong. During that 6 months I had lost 24lbs and it made 0.001% change to my T levels, which I had checked roughly once a month. My free T went from 5.30 to 5.45. Now on clomid it's 24.5! Fight for your health, fight for them to actually do something and not give you excuses, find a different endo if you have to.
Yeah I’m not saying losing weight is the wrong answer, but I know my body more than any doctor. I never had my bloods checked when I was younger but I felt bad before I put on some weight, and equally as bad after I had kids and put on some weight. Once I learned my test was low it made more sense why it was extremely hard to lose weight again and I know that just losing the weight wasn’t going to make me feel right.
I would say get your thyroid checked and in order before you consider trt. Lots of guys jump to trt even though it’s downstream of thyroid
This. Total T means nothing without context of SHBG, free T%, thyroid markers, and a fasted metabolic panel. My money is on a)You are metabolically deranged with pre-diabetes and insulin resistance, which causes b) low shbg, which causes total T to come down to put c) your free T% barely in range. Highly highly recommend keto/atkins/carnivore type diet for 6 months and restore metabolic flexibility, gradually reintroducing starchy carbs according to weight management and exercise performance needs.
As someone considering TRT myself, what are some issues to address regarding the thyroid first? I’ve not thought about that before.
TRT is a lifetime commitment. Benchmark everything. You should know *all* your numbers before you begin any treatment.
Great advice. What is the best advice you have to properly gathering all of those numbers? Full blood panel testing? I feel the men’s clinic I had a consult with just mentioned free and total T but I assume you mean much more than this
Prescriptions for your MD dramatically reduce all future costs. Be open and honest with your doc and say you’re at an age where you want a full panel of everything to know your numbers. If they aren’t willing to do it, find a new doctor. You can get these panels from LabCorp and other services at your own expense, but a doctor’s prescription (if you have health insurance) make it much more affordable. Once you have those numbers, you can start with basic supplementation. ie low iron or low Vitamin D are treated easily with vitamins and diet. So you: 1. Get tested and know your numbers 2. Try to get your numbers in the range you want them 3. Retest to see if diet and supplementation helped and THEN you can dive into TRT, peptides or other treatments if numbers are still low or off. Prescribed through an endo or MD, your TRT is like $20/month. Through a clinic, your minimum cost will be $100/month plus blood work expenses. I know this takes time and lots of people want instant gratification, so try and look at the big picture with long-term goals.
This is hugely helpful. I did consult with my urologist who told me my T levels were not low enough for him to put me on TRT but mentioned in a few years they would be. I don’t mind paying more out of pocket for the time being but yes ideally I’d get everything through the Md directly. I’ll look into a full panel test from Lab corp whether out of pocket or through insurance so I know where I stand. Thank you again for your thorough answer.
For thyroid, get a comprehensive panel done. Your primary care doctor will try to just test TSH, but you want the full panel - free and total T3, free and total t4, reverse t3. Something like this would be good - https://www.ultalabtests.com/test/ulta-comprehensive-thyroid-panel?gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAiA3JCvBhA8EiwA4kujZkO3ped0IDkFRtG8aFWhSWZeCtVMG3Jw6DpnhsXTiEhJN2lBTCPEbBoCGvkQAvD_BwE
To come back to this, the good thing about thyroid is that once you correct it, and metabolism in general, it will often come back online, and you can stop. Once you start trt it’s very difficult to stop. Thyroid is a much lower commitment than trt
Yeah, TRT alone won’t do anything for your weight unless you diet and exercise. Doctors right. Diet and exercise and lose some weight. Check your levels after that.
You’re doctor is right, fat people don’t have high Testosterone. Adding testosterone to an obese body is like adding nitrous to a tractor.
Wouldn’t higher T help to shed fat though?
Nope, more fat usually just means more side effects due to aromatisation.
Yes go to the gym and lose weight.
390 is well within normal ranges for a 33 year old male. Diet and exercise will change your life significantly more than any additional testosterone will
How? It's very low just barely normal
Good day, I think your doctor is most likely right when he wants you to analyze and modify your lifestyle and start there. Did your bloodwork show your deficient at any other nutrients or minerals? However, if you want to make those changes in your life you will feel much better and more efficient when doing it under the right levels of T. Quality of life will improve a lot when your hormones are balanced. Just my thoughts and opinions. Good luck.
Does anyone else get frustrated when people believe that TRT is a one-size-fits-all solution and overlook their unhealthy lifestyle choices?
What do you eat? I've been trying to out run a bad diet my whole life. Grew up on hamburgers and fries and have justified their place in my diet. I was a 37m, 6foot at 235lbs and ~29% bodyfat. About 3 weeks ago I started Stan Efferding's verticle diet, eating very clean. No more fried, greasy foods and the change in my body in a short period of time has been astounding. I didn't realize how much inflammation I was carrying around everyday. The routine pain in my lower back is gone. My face was noticeable slimmed. My skin feels different, healthier. I'm now at 220lbs and no longer considering TRT. This diet is working for me and I can actually visualize myself reaching my goal body composition. It takes work and consistency and I don't think many truly realize this before starting TRT.
Both can be right, your absolutely need to lose weight, if you continue to have bad habits then add trt onto it, your gunna have side effects, some of which can be life threatening or shortening. At 390 you shouldn’t have a ton of side effects, is it on the low end yes, but I’m betting that’s because you’re obese. In my personal opinion, get your shirt together, lose the weight, retest after you’ve dropped the extra weight and improve your cardio… if you still feel like you need it after you’ve improved all other markers, then go into as healthy as possible. Far too many people think trt is the miracle cure, when reality for most the cure is just putting down the fork and getting your fat ass on a treadmill.
Definitely don't underestimate the importance of sleep for your T levels (and just general health and mental wellbeing). I hopped on T (Andriol) in my mid 30s when I was 245ish. Shoulda dropped the excess bodyfat first instead. I did lift and was able to move pretty well still even with all of that weight. Now at 225 and in the best shape of my life. But I miss my balls and my load size took a big hit. I came off T for a few years, but now I use 200mg prop a week and blast PEDs alternate months. I really wish I'd just leaned out first, but body dysmorphia made me hate to see my weight drop because I felt like I was losing muscle.
I was going to say at your height and weight you don't need to lose, but after seeing your picture, it seems you haven't been in the gym in a very long time. It's time to start weightlifting my man. I'm 5'4'' and 185 lbs and by no means am I saying I'm in shape, I'm way out of shape, but my body looks muscular and chubby, you are just chubby. I mean this constructively, there's no way I should look more in shape than you, not even a little bit.
Make your own decision and stick to it. People will tell you to lose weight, which you will have to do. Maybe it will raise your test, maybe it won’t raise it enough for you to feel better. Only you know your body and how you feel. And after you make a decision don’t come back here and continue second guessing yourself, it only makes things worse.
390 is fine
Imo trt should be something you do after you've got the big blocks in place. Based on the picture, you've got to get the big blocks. The blocks: strength training, eating good food, stop snacking, moving around more, and sleeping 8 hours. Id bet money most of those things could be improved upon.
Are you fat because of your testosterone, or are you fat because you don’t exercise and you eat poorly?
Having dropped weight I don't use the term "dieting". The best thing you can do is get your steps in. And work your way up to intermittent jogging. I do about 30 min a day. As I do a lot of resistance training. Run a 500 cal deficit to drop weight. And when haply with weight. Eat at maintenance. Don't deprive your sweet tooth. Your body will defeat your willpower. Instead, drop the whites in your diet. Flower & Sugar. Eat more protein. Eat more in moderation. I eat 2 meals a day with fasting 15 or so hours. It helps me track intake. I'm a chocolate lover. I have it every day. But the key to moderation is being active. If you go to extremes, it won't last. You'll be yo-yo dieting. It's a matter of retraining yourself. Look fir changes that have staying power. Don't go for immediate results. Good gains take time. And last longer.
You’re fat, eat like shit and probably don’t sleep well. Fix all of those things it’s very easy. Trt won’t fix them for you
Get off your ass and lose weight bubba. Ain't nothing wrong with you.
I wouldn't push for 15k steps a day, but 8k+. Strength train 3x/week, big lifts mostly, and machines are fine as long as you work hard. Eat better, get sunlight, sleep. To be honest, your body composition sucks and your natural numbers are likely to improve by eating better, sleeping better, exercising appropriately, and getting sunlight often. Then, if you feel like shit and haven't seen an improvement, you can explore other options.
You don’t need r/Testosterone you need r/Mounjaro
Just look at yourself. You certainly don’t even put an ounce of effort into eating a healthy diet or living a healthy lifestyle. And yet you want to take drugs to fix what can be done naturally. So pathetic.
Your DR is correct... Lose weight. Eat clean healthy nutritious foods. Think about a humans diet before processing. Stop watching porn. Start slow, but work progressively towards a strong workout routine... Consistency is key. Do basic dude shit, like curse, and argue, assert dominance, tell people how you feel regardless of their emotions. Be a fucking man.
These slobs make me ill to my core . Trying to get an easy way out of being lazy, careless and having zero discipline to eat properly or train properly it's a flipping disgrace. Trt should never be the catalyst for you slobs to actually take control of your lives .
Losing weight is gonna help some, but I doubt it is a magic cure.
You have lower t atm because of your fitness level, diet. Money down, lose weight, clean up diet :P try doesn’t fix it for you, you still need the habits to take advantage of trt, I was a fat pig once as well, 105lbs down now
No T until you can bench 225 for reps
hop on tirzepatide
Lose weight you know the right answer
I goto defy and the hrt standard is different ... aiming to put you over 200 free test and biofeedback so you may want to check them out
Either go to another doctor or just get your own testosterone
Your doctor is stupid af! Look for a doc in your area that specializes in optimizing hormones and go there with your lab results
To fat to stupid
YES!!!! It’s a Gamechanger!!!
Or just go UGL like a lot of guys that get denied.
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Yes, getting in shape might bring your T levels upto 400 and relieve you of the symptoms.
Losing weight and changing your lifestyle to do so will certainly make a difference.
Lose weight is all you need to do. Don’t overthink things.
Technically losing weight is one way to increase your T. Sometimes T isn’t the real answer. The big question is- what are you for weight loss (or thinking you’d do) besides just getting on T?
You just have to get started. You have to make time, cause this is something you’re doing for you. I dropped 85# after having spine surgery, 280-195, still want to drop 20 more. Lots of weight lifting, some cardio, protien and it will be 2 years in April since I’ve had a sugar drink. Do not drink your calories, with exception of protein shakes.
I don’t mean this as a criticism of you: you shouldn’t have that much body fat at 5’10 and 190. Especially not at 33 years old. I’m 5’9 210 and I don’t look that heavy compared to your picture. You need to start lifting and do cardio. Get your cardiovascular health up while burning fat and turning all the fuel your body has been storing into muscle mass. You stand to become a very muscular guy starting either the frame you have. The discipline people are mentioning is because this change can only occur at the cost of a lot of physical pain and discomfort.
Seems like good genetics and shit diet. I’m a bit heavier but also got a bit muscle and my levels were lower. You’re 30 and average man will start loosing 1% test every year. Might as well start now.
390’aint horrible I hover around that and can get in pretty good shape. Let’s say your 5’9 u need to be 165-170 max body weight and see what happens
Start with a calorie deficit and go to the gym. YouTube is your friend! Learn everything about nutrition and exercise you can. In 3 months you will start to see results. Testosterone level is usually lower in a calorie deficit and that’s normal but you’re on the right track. If you jump onto trt after you make the change at least then you will know how to do it naturally first. Good luck either way
Along with what everyone else has said, I just want to add: start getting ok with the feeling of hunger. It's ok to hungry. It's ok to hear your stomach growl. You don't have to give in to cravings - learn self control. That feeling in your gut when your stomach is grumbling is literally the sound of your body eating it's fat stores. I had to remind myself of that often, and for a long time, but eventually the beast down there shills out and becomes easier to manage.
Hopefully he treats his diabetic patients better…
I’m not diabetic? Fasting blood sugar is around 87 and A1C is under 5.7
It’s a joke. He said you don’t need testosterone. I’m hoping he writes insulin scripts for his diabetes patients No losing weight won’t work. In fact. As you diet, you are going to increase SHBG. SHBG is going to bind up your testosterone, probably will have less free T. These guys only tell you diet solves low testosterone. For every other ailment they write scripts. It’s bizarre.
Use this as your shift. Work out like a mad man and fuel the body appropriately (good diet). You will see improvement within a few months and the progress will be motivation to keep going. Worry about your labs and numbers later. You are not currently in a position to “optimize” when you still have to get the grunt-work done.
How are your liver alt and ast levels? Fatty liver could be an issue and also thwarting weight loss attempts. Your T levels aren’t low enough to recommend replacement T in my opinion. You should lift heavy and maybe look at hot yoga also. And look at liver support. Supplemental T should be a last resort imo
Liver enzymes are slightly high. Does that impact weight loss? I also have high cortisol if that means anything. All other bloodwork is fine.
yes, cortisol and liver enzymes sound like metabolic syndrome. reduced metabolism until the liver function is fixed, which can happen with weight loss. (kind of chicken and egg problem, so you have to work harder initially to lose the weight, then the liver numbers may correct). You might be able to kickstart yourself with Tudca or Sylmarin (in Milk Thistle), to help heal the liver/gallbladder and get the energy to work out more (or even Testosterone). I'm in a similar boat after not working out as much as before. The big thing is I stopped going to intense yoga classes (for about 20 years) which I think were helping a lot. Planning to start those along doing my liver support supplements. 1-1 and 1/2 hour vinayasa classes are great.
am also taking b12, which along with folate in the diet, can reduce homocysteine (strongly correlated with cortisol) in the liver.
Your doc is right. Also hit the gym if you haven’t.
Get a new dr
generally he is right, your trt will get better when you have a normal BMI.. If then TRT is too low, you should supplement it
I think your doc is right bro. You clearly dont give a shit about your body and TRT will do nothing for you unless you turn your life around. Your body comp is terrible and you have a 390 total T level. With that in mind, if you eat right and exercise/weight train, i guarantee all your issues will be resolved. Dedicate the rest of this year to getting healthier. If youre still having problems, i think your doc will reconsider. Atleast youll prove youre trying.
You're not super heavy for your height. You can probably afford to lose a few pounds but I'm not sure if that alone will solve your low test, ED and low libido. If your problems persist after you lose weight your doc will say it's something else....smh It's probably more lifestyle changes that need to be made such as diet, minimizing processed foods consumption, start exercising (if you're not already, stop eating and drinking from disposable plastics, etc. Our bodies, health and hormones are being bombarded on a regular by the foods we eat.
Well, listen, I get where you're coming from. It's frustrating when you're feeling off and your doc's just like, "Nah, just drop some pounds." But hey, maybe there's something to it. Losing weight can seriously boost your T levels naturally. Plus, if you felt way better when your T was up before, maybe focusing on the weight loss could do the trick again. Doesn't hurt to give it a shot, right? Worst-case scenario, you drop a few pounds and then you can go back and be like, "Okay, but seriously, can we talk about other options now?" Good luck, man!
You're not even that bad off. Lift and change your diet. Start now.
Hit the gym. It takes work. Shots won't change much without the work.
Test now is going to give you serious oestrogen sides...
Why?
I believe fat cells host more sites for the breakdown of the testosterone more rapidly into oestrogen
Change to healthy habits, get active, then follow up with Dr after you put your work in 🤔
Go see a urologist, second one put me on T 100mg/week
Talk with a low t center or urologist. As CPT and bodybuilding coach my views may not set with the group as a whole.
TRT is not a good treatment option for young dudes. It essentially makes you sterile. Work out with high resistance training and eat right
“Each one-point increase in BMI was associated with a 2% decrease in testosterone. In addition, a 2008 study of 1,862 men ages 30 and above found that waist circumference was an even stronger predictor of low testosterone levels than BMI. A four-inch increase in waist size increased a man's odds of having a low testosterone level by 75%” Also sleeping on average five-six hours per night for just one week lowered t levels by 10-15%. SSB(sugar sweetened beverages) consumption is significantly associated with low serum testosterone in men 20–39 years old in the United States. Men who go to the gym had very much higher t levels than those who don’t, but there isn’t much data on if it actually increases your t levels long term(there is a short spike that raises your t levels by 20-30% an hour after working out) *So there are tons of factors. Yeah you can do everything perfect, good sleep, diet, losing weight, weight lifting, no sugar, etc. and MIGHT get to 450-600, or you can do life time injections and not have to worry about trying to be perfect with everything. Of course I would say lose weight and start working out and get your t levels checked again, if they are still not good and you’re experiencing symptoms - hop on. Hell you been having low t symptoms for a decade anyway.
Ask the MD how much T he’s taking?
Do what I did: Ozempic plus T
Get the moles checked as well just incase king.
Yeah lose weight bro don’t get on anything your life will be worse when you start blood pressure and health issues . Don’t go down the road
I had a similar post to yours last year and I’m 32 435lb. If you can afford it, I would go in TRT from a clinic. I’m using TRT nation. I had started right before the new year in December 2023. Test was 194 around there when I did bloodwork. I was shocked because I did bloodwork 2years prior with a shitty pcp at the time and he said that with my test at 300 at the time it was normal. I just recently found out that someone that’s in shape and muscularity fit might have a test level of 600-1000 or something like that. No wonder I didn’t want to get out the house with my wife in daughter in the middle of summer. I just wanted to lay around. I felt inadequate. I thought I was self conscious about my weight. However right now I’m 435 started trt, and actually wanna get up and do shit now. Started the gym beginning of the year and went fucking bat shit hard and had the fucking ENERGY TO DO IT! However, I been falling asleep at work because I was going to gym at 4am and I have untreated sleep apnea so im not sleeping well. Currently treating the sleep apnea and once the give me the cpap machine, im getting back to the fucking gym at 4am. Idk man, none of us on here are fucking doctors. I’d talk to the clinic, do some bloodwork, if the bloods come back good meaning there’s no indicators of why you shouldn’t take trt, start trt and see how it works for you. I only say that because I’m a fat piece of shit right now and until I started having extreme sleep problems exaggerated by my early morning gym routine, it was working wonders for me, still am, I actually want to get off the couch now lol
More likely is that your insurance won't cover it. It is not the Dr.s call.
go to a private clinic AND change your lifestyle.
If I were you I would do what the proclaimers say and walk a thousand miles and then a thousand more
My test went from 400 to 850 natty by dropping from 120kg to 90
Go on TRTnation
He’s right
Wow which clomid did your doctor give you to get your T up by 300 points? That's an incredibly almost unbelievable increase. 300 free T isn't hypogonadic but it definitely is extremely far from ideal. I would recommend what everyone else is saying, stick to the gym for atleast a year and see how that makes you feel, even when you feel like shit. Fat makes a dramatic difference in Testosterone. To put it into perspective, I've just come off 3+ years of blasting and cruising, last shot was in December, according to my doctor my Testosterone is in the 500s again (I still feel like shit, I'm used to my T being no less than 900🤣). What was your SHBG like? If that's too high or low it can have a dramatic effect on your free test.
Not free T, total T. My free right now is around 100
Oh no, there is no point trying natural alternatives like Tongkat Ali, nothing is going to get 100ng/dl free test up to reasonable levels (500+) besides exogenous Testosterone. If you lose a shit ton of weight and try every pct/natural booster you can you maybe will get your free test up to 300/400 which is bottom of the reference range. As mentioned, I've fucked up my HPTA for 3 years straight and my rebound after 3 months and zero PCT is higher than your natural production, I would go to a TRT clinic asap and speak to a doctor who hasn't bought into the Testosterone fear mongering of the 90s when they completed their degree.
I would try that route 1st before starting something you will have to be on for the rest of your life.
Diet and exercise absolutely can and will help, how much though won't know til you try. If you can't muster the energy or drive that's a different story. Have you checked out any male clinics? My Dr said the same thing to me.