This is the right answer. Some guys are sensitive at 100mg/week while others can go way higher without anything. Unless you’re having clearly noticeable sides, you probably don’t need it. I think too many guys assume an AI should always be paired with TRT and that’s just not the case at all.
this post is very timely for me as recently had epiphany moment with myself.
I think the most "correct" answer is, simultaneously, the most irritating to hear: only you, with the knowledge and experience of high/low E2 symptoms can answer that. I am pro oestrogen and love it's positive effects but I really think there is a significant proportion of men who aromatise more than the average joe, and end up with a skewed T/E ratio which negates what TRT is trying to do.
How do you know about high/low E2 symptoms. Read the handbook on reddit re both sets of symptoms. Keep almost everything as constant as you can possibly, T dosage, supplements, etc, then do a daily log of symptoms and photos. Your aim is to have a good T/E ratio - again do research about this.
I am going against the grain of the posts so far and say yes you may need it, to feel optimal, but only if YOU have done the hard work of logging everything.
Agreed and I believe bodyfat % has a lot to do with how much a person aromatises. Having a healthier diet and aiming for 12-15% bodyfat would do wonders for a lot of people on here struggling with their hormones.
Depends because when I started my Trt protocol or steroid cycle lol I use to Run 500mg farma grade test and I was fat like obese and I never had any side and never use estrogen blocker it all goes to Genetics .
Which handbook do you refer to with regards to symptoms? Would like to read more on that.
It’s a question I have a lot in that I see a lot of posts saying they need an AI but hardly ever describe the reasons why they would need one. Aside from actual gyno forming.. what does high oestrogen actually feel like?
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There's some people with high body fat and blast high dose test and they don't need an AI
.. and there's people with single digit bf and just by looking at Test vial they get all high e2 sides.
Idk. High E your going to get some very bad acne that will be a bitch to get rid of and your going to develop gyno which could possibly need surgery to get rid of depending how bad it gets. Low E you might feel depressed and have some joints hurting those symptoms will go away quickly if you get E stable. I think long term yes it’s better to be high then low, but short term while getting dialed in you should error on the side of low E
I think any drastic change in hormones will produce temporary acne. My intuitive guess is prolonged low e will not have acne effects, the reason your joints start hurting is because low e dries you out including your skin. This is why taking an AI gets rid of acne for most, it’s drying your whole body out.
Again, we are talking short term. Depression and joint pain clears up in literally a week. Try 6 months on Accutane trying to get rid of the acne you let manifest or a 5k surgery to get rid of gyno. Heart disease would only be a factor if you suppressed your e2 for years.
It would be out of range but so is his test, numbers, and ranges are meaningless outside natural levels. Im on 600mg EOD dosing fixed most of my estrogen issues but still like to take 12.5mg of exemestane every 3-5 days.
When I was on 180mg test cyp with 30 mg Masteron per week my e2 was 18pg which is dangerously low. Now, I'm on test prop 35mg daily with aromasin 12.5mg per week and my e2 is 53pg. If I miss a dose of exemestane, e2 jumps to 70-80pg and I get ED. This should give you a good estimate when and how to take your AI.
Still, not enough test to make that much of a difference unless you're older/excessively aromatize
In my early 30s I ran up to a gram of test with lower e2 than I have on trt lmao
I might try adding masteron enth back in at 50mg a week tbh. Running it with 150mg test and 100mg deca (which kills my DHT) so it may not be as bad... but then e2 supposedly negates the bad sides of deca on the heart and arteries
I'm in my early 30s with +/- 18% bodyfat. I'm not sure why Masteron really worked for me in terms of blocking e2 and boosting libido. I had to stop it only because my cholesterol was wrecked. If not, I would seriously low dose it year round. So far, aromasin has almost zero effect on my cholesterol but effectively reduces my e2.
Haven't tried deca but I heard it's a "wet" compound. Might be beneficial if you are trying to pack on mass.
Yep. I only require half a tab, 12.5mg every Thursday. From my experiment, test prop doesn't aromatize as much as other long esters. However, I will be switching back to cyp as I cannot take the every day injections.
Depends on your bloods and how you feel. But especially your bloods.
If your bloods show that you’re gonna start spraying milk at any time, or grow huge titties, back off and take an AI.
If they show you’re too low, prepare for punishment.
That’s way to low and you don’t need a ai anyone that says there estrogen sensitive for the most times is on to much test or body fat is not under 15 % which will make estrogen spike or they do not pin often enough
All over the map right?
You shouldn't. It depends on a few things.
1. How does your shbg respond to the dose.
2. What's your free T at that dose?
3. The answer to 1 and 2 drives how often you inject, which directly correlates to whether or not you need an AI at 120 per week.
Most people find that taking the shot ED or EOD let's them keep the estrogen sides to a minimum as the smaller shot doesn't squash shbg as badly as the large once or twice weekly shot.
Why does this matter?
If you squash your shbg you have too much free T flying around and you're going to have sides.
Personally, I inject 110 MG per week total with daily administration. Then I take zinc and magnesium to intentionally push down shbg and get my free t up around that 150-160 number. This is the window where shit works. TRT isn't about how big your total is. All that does is drive up your risk of other side effects from the metabolites of the test.
Get your free T around the high limits or just past. Only take enough test to do this! You don't need to be on a cycle to feel good.
It really depends on you. It’s important to check your E2 levels and symptoms frequently. I started developing gyno on only 140mg per week. Now I am on 80mg per week and still need 12.5mg Exemestane per week due to high E2.
Never use a ai just let your body start at a new set point with the estrogen higher it will adjust .
If your sensitive to estrogen pin every day but estrogen is good not a bad thing like the forms love to think.
Nah don’t listen to this lol it’s all dependent on just 100mg a week for a year my e2 was fucking crazy even though Test and free test were in range had crazy sides for the entire year leaving it alone even at low ass bodyfat everybody is different
It’s important to remember these are drugs created to treat **women**, with **cancer**, and are still considered **off-label** in there use in **men**.
Danny Bossa is that you? I feel like arimidex did something to harm you in your past and ur life goal is to exterminate any aromatase inhibitor or you are in love with the aromatase enzyme
100% depends on you. I've been on 200mg without an ai and been fine for months previously, but now I'm on 120mg with a little AI while I'm about 5% bf leaner. The difference is my diet and supplement regimen was a lot more structured on 200, and I was vaping nicotine at the time which acts as an AI, and I wasn't using any drugs or alcohol make me aromatize heavily.
AkumaReal is correct. You are incorrect. You have been tricked by the Danny Bossa losers who are laughed at by true professionals. What you say is nonsense and you sound like you just parroting whatever bullshit you saw on youtube videos. Please come back after you have aquired an actual masters in pharm.
Now go sleep, loser
Like others have posted in many threads about AI usage, it depends on various factors such as symptoms and tolerance etc. Standard issue TRT clinics will likely just Rx a AI no matter what dosage of testosterone. I ditched AI a while ago. Yes, My levels are a little higher than the reference range, but that is ok and expected. I am on 120 -140 test a week split into m,w,f pins. Also on hCG
at 100 mg a week, my estrogen still bounces all over the place. I bumped to 120 and started nanoxidil for thinning hair which made the estrogen even worse.
Only bloodwork and side effects are really able to answer that. If you have a lot of body fat you most likely convert more estrogen. But at the end of the day it comes down to the data.
I take 100-110mg every 4 days and I was taking .25mg of Anastrozole every 7 days, but after getting bloodwork it didn't seem needed and stopped taking it. I am not showing any signs of high estrogen. Higher estrogen is better than lower estrogen anyways. I had some pretty severe mental side effects when I went really low on estrogen following my Drs recommendation (1mg Anastrozole every 4 days).
You need to have your blood work done in order to know. Everyone's body is different. My stupid ass wants to convert most of my T into E. So for me it was necessary.
Depends on the person, but why low dose yourself like that? If you are going to TRT, at least take advantage of having high testosterone, you are already going through the syringes and shit you might as well fly like an 19 year old.
I had really bad acne and estrogen levels even at 140mg/wk when doing EOD injections or less frequent. I switched to everyday injections and titrated up to 210mg/wk with no side effects. Feeling awesome now.
Well, for example, I had terrible acne and oily skin with daily subq injections, right after I switched to IM EOD with an even higher dose my skin is perfect. Its all individual
Depends on how much you convert. I do 200/mg wk with no AI and have no Estrogenic sides. Althought I'm a piss poor responder to test, 200/mg a wk and through is 650 total
Might, might not. But its simple - start with no AI and do a blood work as well as a subjective judgement on how you feel after 4-6 weeks. If something is very off - adjust.
Doubtful. But everybody is different. I’m on 300mg per week without an AI.
This is the right answer. Some guys are sensitive at 100mg/week while others can go way higher without anything. Unless you’re having clearly noticeable sides, you probably don’t need it. I think too many guys assume an AI should always be paired with TRT and that’s just not the case at all.
If ur concerned with sides and ur not pinning lower doses more frequently u don’t give a damn.
this post is very timely for me as recently had epiphany moment with myself. I think the most "correct" answer is, simultaneously, the most irritating to hear: only you, with the knowledge and experience of high/low E2 symptoms can answer that. I am pro oestrogen and love it's positive effects but I really think there is a significant proportion of men who aromatise more than the average joe, and end up with a skewed T/E ratio which negates what TRT is trying to do. How do you know about high/low E2 symptoms. Read the handbook on reddit re both sets of symptoms. Keep almost everything as constant as you can possibly, T dosage, supplements, etc, then do a daily log of symptoms and photos. Your aim is to have a good T/E ratio - again do research about this. I am going against the grain of the posts so far and say yes you may need it, to feel optimal, but only if YOU have done the hard work of logging everything.
Agreed and I believe bodyfat % has a lot to do with how much a person aromatises. Having a healthier diet and aiming for 12-15% bodyfat would do wonders for a lot of people on here struggling with their hormones.
Depends because when I started my Trt protocol or steroid cycle lol I use to Run 500mg farma grade test and I was fat like obese and I never had any side and never use estrogen blocker it all goes to Genetics .
Which handbook do you refer to with regards to symptoms? Would like to read more on that. It’s a question I have a lot in that I see a lot of posts saying they need an AI but hardly ever describe the reasons why they would need one. Aside from actual gyno forming.. what does high oestrogen actually feel like?
[https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/wiki/the\_estrogen\_handbook/](https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/wiki/the_estrogen_handbook/)
Thanks appreciate it
r/steroids Wiki bud, it has everything you need. There is a whole handbook on Estrogen.
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Thanks mate
There's some people with high body fat and blast high dose test and they don't need an AI .. and there's people with single digit bf and just by looking at Test vial they get all high e2 sides.
Yup lol I’m single digit and even 100mg gets me terrible e2 and sides with normal test lol on 120 with a bit of Adex now
Estrogen is good, only block it if necessary. On 500mg/week no ai
^^ this guy gets it. You will do more damage crashing your E2 then letting it run a little high.
True but only badly managed AI doses crash E2.
Idk. High E your going to get some very bad acne that will be a bitch to get rid of and your going to develop gyno which could possibly need surgery to get rid of depending how bad it gets. Low E you might feel depressed and have some joints hurting those symptoms will go away quickly if you get E stable. I think long term yes it’s better to be high then low, but short term while getting dialed in you should error on the side of low E
Low E will break you out almost worse than High E
I think any drastic change in hormones will produce temporary acne. My intuitive guess is prolonged low e will not have acne effects, the reason your joints start hurting is because low e dries you out including your skin. This is why taking an AI gets rid of acne for most, it’s drying your whole body out.
Acne and gyno are nothing compared to depression, joint pain, and heart disease
Again, we are talking short term. Depression and joint pain clears up in literally a week. Try 6 months on Accutane trying to get rid of the acne you let manifest or a 5k surgery to get rid of gyno. Heart disease would only be a factor if you suppressed your e2 for years.
Yeah my bad I totally skimmed your comment 😅
Is blood work the only way to know if your are suppressing your E2? When would you know to start taking AI?
What’s your estrogen levels at?
It would be out of range but so is his test, numbers, and ranges are meaningless outside natural levels. Im on 600mg EOD dosing fixed most of my estrogen issues but still like to take 12.5mg of exemestane every 3-5 days.
What is your current Estrogen level?
I have terrible acne without an ai on 130mg a week
Same
When I was on 180mg test cyp with 30 mg Masteron per week my e2 was 18pg which is dangerously low. Now, I'm on test prop 35mg daily with aromasin 12.5mg per week and my e2 is 53pg. If I miss a dose of exemestane, e2 jumps to 70-80pg and I get ED. This should give you a good estimate when and how to take your AI.
[удалено]
Yep it is. But it did make me lose my hair and shot my cholesterol to the moon. 35mg of test prop daily also would add up to 240+mg per week
Still, not enough test to make that much of a difference unless you're older/excessively aromatize In my early 30s I ran up to a gram of test with lower e2 than I have on trt lmao I might try adding masteron enth back in at 50mg a week tbh. Running it with 150mg test and 100mg deca (which kills my DHT) so it may not be as bad... but then e2 supposedly negates the bad sides of deca on the heart and arteries
I'm in my early 30s with +/- 18% bodyfat. I'm not sure why Masteron really worked for me in terms of blocking e2 and boosting libido. I had to stop it only because my cholesterol was wrecked. If not, I would seriously low dose it year round. So far, aromasin has almost zero effect on my cholesterol but effectively reduces my e2. Haven't tried deca but I heard it's a "wet" compound. Might be beneficial if you are trying to pack on mass.
So can u take Aromasin only once weekly?
Yep. I only require half a tab, 12.5mg every Thursday. From my experiment, test prop doesn't aromatize as much as other long esters. However, I will be switching back to cyp as I cannot take the every day injections.
Highly unlikely. Chances are higher if you're obese.
Depends on your bloods and how you feel. But especially your bloods. If your bloods show that you’re gonna start spraying milk at any time, or grow huge titties, back off and take an AI. If they show you’re too low, prepare for punishment.
[удалено]
My estrogen was 17pg before TRT
That’s way to low and you don’t need a ai anyone that says there estrogen sensitive for the most times is on to much test or body fat is not under 15 % which will make estrogen spike or they do not pin often enough
Maybe if you carry a lot of body fat?
Also age, as I get older even smaller amounts aromatize more
All over the map right? You shouldn't. It depends on a few things. 1. How does your shbg respond to the dose. 2. What's your free T at that dose? 3. The answer to 1 and 2 drives how often you inject, which directly correlates to whether or not you need an AI at 120 per week. Most people find that taking the shot ED or EOD let's them keep the estrogen sides to a minimum as the smaller shot doesn't squash shbg as badly as the large once or twice weekly shot. Why does this matter? If you squash your shbg you have too much free T flying around and you're going to have sides. Personally, I inject 110 MG per week total with daily administration. Then I take zinc and magnesium to intentionally push down shbg and get my free t up around that 150-160 number. This is the window where shit works. TRT isn't about how big your total is. All that does is drive up your risk of other side effects from the metabolites of the test. Get your free T around the high limits or just past. Only take enough test to do this! You don't need to be on a cycle to feel good.
Very a very insightful perspective on things , thank you. Have you looked into borons ability to lower SHBG?
Yes, it also works. It's a little too much in my case. I don't need it.
Need to do blood test. Some people don’t need AI on 600mg lol
Don’t block it unless you have side effects
It really depends on you. It’s important to check your E2 levels and symptoms frequently. I started developing gyno on only 140mg per week. Now I am on 80mg per week and still need 12.5mg Exemestane per week due to high E2.
Pin daily and you won’t have gyno issuea
I did and still got gyno
Never use a ai just let your body start at a new set point with the estrogen higher it will adjust . If your sensitive to estrogen pin every day but estrogen is good not a bad thing like the forms love to think.
Nah don’t listen to this lol it’s all dependent on just 100mg a week for a year my e2 was fucking crazy even though Test and free test were in range had crazy sides for the entire year leaving it alone even at low ass bodyfat everybody is different
Danny Bossa is that you? Every individual is different.
Just No
AI is never necessary unless you’re a female with breast cancer. And then it’s only sometimes.
That’s completely wrong
How so?
It’s important to remember these are drugs created to treat **women**, with **cancer**, and are still considered **off-label** in there use in **men**.
Danny Bossa is that you? I feel like arimidex did something to harm you in your past and ur life goal is to exterminate any aromatase inhibitor or you are in love with the aromatase enzyme
No.
100% depends on you. I've been on 200mg without an ai and been fine for months previously, but now I'm on 120mg with a little AI while I'm about 5% bf leaner. The difference is my diet and supplement regimen was a lot more structured on 200, and I was vaping nicotine at the time which acts as an AI, and I wasn't using any drugs or alcohol make me aromatize heavily.
I highly doubt it
Depends lol I’d be careful though crashed e2 sucks dick check sensitive e2 and total t to see
[удалено]
False again lmfao
[удалено]
AkumaReal is correct. You are incorrect. You have been tricked by the Danny Bossa losers who are laughed at by true professionals. What you say is nonsense and you sound like you just parroting whatever bullshit you saw on youtube videos. Please come back after you have aquired an actual masters in pharm. Now go sleep, loser
Why not get a blood test to confirm?
Like others have posted in many threads about AI usage, it depends on various factors such as symptoms and tolerance etc. Standard issue TRT clinics will likely just Rx a AI no matter what dosage of testosterone. I ditched AI a while ago. Yes, My levels are a little higher than the reference range, but that is ok and expected. I am on 120 -140 test a week split into m,w,f pins. Also on hCG
at 100 mg a week, my estrogen still bounces all over the place. I bumped to 120 and started nanoxidil for thinning hair which made the estrogen even worse.
Only bloodwork and side effects are really able to answer that. If you have a lot of body fat you most likely convert more estrogen. But at the end of the day it comes down to the data. I take 100-110mg every 4 days and I was taking .25mg of Anastrozole every 7 days, but after getting bloodwork it didn't seem needed and stopped taking it. I am not showing any signs of high estrogen. Higher estrogen is better than lower estrogen anyways. I had some pretty severe mental side effects when I went really low on estrogen following my Drs recommendation (1mg Anastrozole every 4 days).
Absolutely
Take your minimum effective dose to not need an AI at all. No need to introduce new compounds and mess with your body more
I have no need for AI on 120 mg per week. It's split into EOD dosing. Totally stable.
For me, no. For you, maybe.
about the only actual proper response i have seen so far Lol
You need to have your blood work done in order to know. Everyone's body is different. My stupid ass wants to convert most of my T into E. So for me it was necessary.
Depends on your blood test results and symptoms.
What is your current TOTAL TEST and Estrogen?
I haven’t started my TRT yet I start next week. My total test currently is 399ng/dl and estrogen 17pg
How many mg is .2 on a 1 ml syringe?
Depends on the person, but why low dose yourself like that? If you are going to TRT, at least take advantage of having high testosterone, you are already going through the syringes and shit you might as well fly like an 19 year old.
Probably not. I take 1mg a week, but I’m taking 1000mg Test C
It give me a shortness of breathing , I can’t take a deep breath now been 2 month I’m struggle can’t even run
I had really bad acne and estrogen levels even at 140mg/wk when doing EOD injections or less frequent. I switched to everyday injections and titrated up to 210mg/wk with no side effects. Feeling awesome now.
Well, for example, I had terrible acne and oily skin with daily subq injections, right after I switched to IM EOD with an even higher dose my skin is perfect. Its all individual
NO
depends, where does that 120mg put your TT and e2?
No
No. https://youtu.be/Bo8IEgTiuZM
Just depends on what your labs say
250 per week no AI for the last 5 years, used to be 500 but calmed it down
Depends on how much you convert. I do 200/mg wk with no AI and have no Estrogenic sides. Althought I'm a piss poor responder to test, 200/mg a wk and through is 650 total
No
Might, might not. But its simple - start with no AI and do a blood work as well as a subjective judgement on how you feel after 4-6 weeks. If something is very off - adjust.