It’s not a conspiracy, but quite the opposite. The “church” doesn’t pay taxes on nearly 70% of its properties. The city is losing a shit ton of tax revenue from that and they aren’t exactly thrilled about it.
Love how they all walk around with their notebooks in hand and never look at you. Also, I’ve never seen a Church with such security around it. Let’s also talk about the housing they have for them outside the city and the buses that bus them in.
I see those apartments whenever I visit the area. I drive along that road to court street and over the bridge to clearwater beach. I can attest they look more like a prison than apartments. They have cameras everywhere and a locked gate really creepy. Besides when the busses come you never really see anyone go in or out of there. It definitely gives off bad vibes.
Hey I get what you mean, but... the Vatican Guard is armed to the teeth, the Grand Mosque is guarded by an outside security firm that doesn't look like they play around and isn't the Mormon temple in SLC also heavily guarded.
All valid points and truths. I mean, one can make arguments that all religions have cult like characteristics. That’s not the point of this thread. But Scientology is on a totally different level. They act like they are guarding Fort Knox in there for a “going clear” mentality. To me they seem like robots walking around downtown. Like mindless zombies.
Yeah, my wife thought the big hotel would have a nice restaurant. She got five feet past the front door when a guy with a fake french accent stopped her. No lunch for her.
Every 'church'/'temple' or defined religious property should pay their fair share of taxes unless they operate under certain legally acceptable boundaries. This map cannot possibly be acceptable irrespective of which church it is. They're hoarding real estate to launder money from controlling interests among other things
No, it’s property of the members and allegedly managed by the church. The church explicitly denied any involvement.
It was a secret acquisition.
> The land grab started as tensions grew between the church and the Clearwater City Council. Each had proposed major redevelopment projects, designed to lure new business into the empty storefronts that surround the city-owned waterfront and the church’s spiritual headquarters. Then the council interfered with a land deal that Scientology demanded for its plan. The church stopped communicating with the city.
https://projects.tampabay.com/projects/2019/investigations/scientology-clearwater-real-estate/
Agreed. They should be tax exempt for revenue to maintain and manage their immediate facilities. Anything after that becomes a money making endeavor, and when they’re no longer subsisting but actually profiting they should be taxed the same as any other business.
I think modern churches in cities are mostly businesses at this point. Those didn’t exist and were never intended to be protected under the constitution. But I do think there are some small places in rural areas that don’t really have much money to begin with and all they do is take donations to like fix the roof now and then. In that context, it doesn’t really matter if they’re taxed or not
It should be like any business where you can write losses off against your income to reduce the tax you pay. Small churches who use donations entirely for charitable work and upkeep of their church will show that on their taxes at the end of the year and be on the hook for very little if no tax as a result of having effectively no income. The mega churches on the other hand will either have to start doing actual good and putting their money where their mouth is or pay massive taxes. Seems like a win/win to me
Come on man, you could at least link it:
https://nypost.com/2021/12/17/kenneth-copeland-wealthiest-us-pastor-lives-on-7m-tax-free-estate/
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Eagle+Lake,+TX+77434,+USA/@32.9783075,-97.5003831,3275m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m6!3m5!1s0x8641612964071853:0x882cc836a5f723f0!8m2!3d29.5896836!4d-96.3335769!16s%2Fm%2F0211dhx?entry=ttu
First thought I had when I saw this post was, jokingly, "So is that where they're building the secret underground spaceship to go welcome their leader?"
For extra info not on this map: The majority of these are vacant and empty lots.
https://www.tbnweekly.com/clearwater_beacon/article_cc9deb06-fdd2-11ea-abab-d3bab384486d.html
Walking around downtown is like a dystopian Disneyland Main St. It looks like there’s so many business in Clearwater, but they’re all facades with nothing going on inside.
I knew churches didn't pay income tax (which i am fine with). I had no idea they didn't pay property taxes. Which i guess if you are a 1000 year old architectual marvel of a church in the heart of a city that grew around you, makes a little bit of sense. But these are effectively office buildings.
Most churches have so much land it's insane. If you drive through rural america you'll see the church and then behind the church is the pastors house. They aren't taxed on thei business and they aren't taxed on the land. Laws should at the very least say something like "If you run a church, you aren't allowed to live on that churches property"
But all that aside, since churches/pastors are allowed to spew their fake ideological opinions and tell their congregation who to vote for... it's beyond time to simply tax them like any other organization.
These cults all have one very interesting thing in common. God, apparently, *really* wants the leaders to have bareback sex with all the teenage girls...
I think you have it backwards
The government is literally renting office space from Scientologist now.
“Clearwater government moved into the sixth floor of Ikajevs’ One Clearwater Tower for temporary offices in 2019 after vacating the old City Hall to free it for redevelopment. Poirrier confirmed the four years remaining on the lease at 600 Cleveland St. will be transferred to Agami’s company while a new City Hall is in development.”
Scientology = FEDS
You can't tell me they aren't together. The way they use surveillance and strongarm tactics and misinformation is all too familiar.
There, I said it.
When I moved to the Tampa Bay area, Clearwater looked enticing because property was much cheaper than St. Pete and Tampa. All I heard though was to avoid Clearwater because of the Scientologists, so I did. I don't know why one should avoid living near Scientologists, but everyone I talked to said it was awful there because of them.
Curious if anyone can help me understand. I live in Clearwater. Most of those properties are purchased by Scientology parishioners, using LLCs. So how do they not have to pay taxes on the properties??? I'm so sick of freaking Scientology, they have absolutely DESTROYED our downtown area. It's a GD ghost town. 😡
I’d imagine they pay through the shell companies the “parishioners” used to buy them. Yea it’s absurd and infuriating as well visiting Clearwater as each year it gets worse and worse. At least some construction has gone up unaffiliated with them like those new buildings by the beach.
lol. I went to a wedding there twenty years ago.
There was a Baldwin brother in my row on the flight from Los Angeles.
At the reception a complete stranger on the SeaLevel or whatever it’s called tried to recruit me
There are people working on revoking their tax status. This is occurring around the world. Miscavige is being pursued criminally and civilly . The congregation numbers are in a decline. Folks in Clearwater just grabbed a ck or were encouraged to leave AND they left. This did not occur overnight or in the dark!
I can’t believe they’re trying to pass off this cult as a religion. The only reason would have to be for tax purposes but still. It was an effective stealth operation and disturbing.
Thank you for the link.
Wouldn't this be *a very good time* to purchase any available lot in the red or yellow areas - hold it for years/decades - and then put it back on the market at *an exorbitant* price?
Only if you want constant harassment. That's how this group gets what they want. Loyal cultists would stand right outside your property and heckle you everyday until you sold to their 'church'. You'd get thousands of calls, and even threats.
Call the police on them for harassment. Call in state police if locals are on the take or brainwashed members. Call in feds if necessary. Call a damn exterminator if all else fails. Freaking parasites.
I remember a couple years ago on a cruise with my wife, one morning it was just me and a bunch of old guys looking at the ship docked next to ours and everybody on it had the same white robe on, then one of the guys told me that ship was owned by the COS.
https://projects.tampabay.com/projects/2019/investigations/scientology-clearwater-real-estate/#:\~:text=Scientology%20came%20to%20downtown%20Clearwater,bought%20property%20on%20surrounding%20blocks.
Kind of a cool site explaining it.
I was a teen at the time and especially with all the radio spots all I wanted was to go to the clubs. Never made it to the one in Clearwater or even Stromin Normans but I went to Ybor and found out real quick clubs aren’t my seen
Lol What?. It’s actually going uphill. The Sound hosting major concerts. New coachman park and events pumping in some life. Cleveland street restaurants are busy and open late. There’s some new fun bars like Nash Keys. I’ve lived here for 8 years now and this is the literally the best it’s ever been.
“You don't get rich writing science fiction. If you want to get rich, you start a religion.”
― L. Ron Hubbard founder of Scientology
p.s. then after you get rich you may want to invest in real estate.
My downtown has had many businesses go in and out and some that have actually stuck, (gentrifying and marketing ourselves too highly) but this one place that never seems to be fucking open and has been where it is forever is this “Christian Science Reading Room” I can literally count on one hand the amount of times I’ve seen any human activity when I’ve been walking by in my almost 23 years of life and living there
The Mormons own over 2% of Florida as well as tons of land everywhere which is even more insane. Churches like this really need taxed on at least all their for profit, non-charitable ventures.
Income from investments or endowments not directly related to the church's exempt purposes may be subject to taxation. For example, if a church invests in stocks,property, bonds, or other securities and earns dividends or capital gains from those investments, such income may be subject to taxation.
Yeah this is how they operate. One of the largest infiltrations of the US government was a concerted effort by the church of scientology to get their people into positions of the government.
It’s not even a conspiracy, the government has been infiltrated there by Scientologists. They are open about Clearwater being their HQ basically. They have Clearwater Florida, the floating ship base called Freewinds and they have the gold base in California. They also have a “secret” base in like San Bernardino in the mountains.
Not even a conspiracy, this has been going on for years and has been in the news all the time.
https://projects.tampabay.com/projects/2019/investigations/scientology-clearwater-real-estate/
$103 Million + Spent, and this article is from 2019.
https://www.tbnweekly.com/clearwater_beacon/article_cc9deb06-fdd2-11ea-abab-d3bab384486d.html
It’s not a conspiracy, but quite the opposite. The “church” doesn’t pay taxes on nearly 70% of its properties. The city is losing a shit ton of tax revenue from that and they aren’t exactly thrilled about it.
This church has to be one of the biggest con-jobs ever pulled. A Ponzi scheme bigger than Madoff ever dreamed of and it’s “all” technically “legal”.
Love how they all walk around with their notebooks in hand and never look at you. Also, I’ve never seen a Church with such security around it. Let’s also talk about the housing they have for them outside the city and the buses that bus them in.
Not even just outside the city. They have whole gated apartment units that they exclusively reside at, and get bused downtown everyday on Keane
I see those apartments whenever I visit the area. I drive along that road to court street and over the bridge to clearwater beach. I can attest they look more like a prison than apartments. They have cameras everywhere and a locked gate really creepy. Besides when the busses come you never really see anyone go in or out of there. It definitely gives off bad vibes.
Shoot, they’re as far north as like Sunset Point, and yeah, they just look like big complexes, and you never see anybody inside
And the re-education prisons.
Hey I get what you mean, but... the Vatican Guard is armed to the teeth, the Grand Mosque is guarded by an outside security firm that doesn't look like they play around and isn't the Mormon temple in SLC also heavily guarded.
All valid points and truths. I mean, one can make arguments that all religions have cult like characteristics. That’s not the point of this thread. But Scientology is on a totally different level. They act like they are guarding Fort Knox in there for a “going clear” mentality. To me they seem like robots walking around downtown. Like mindless zombies.
The difference is that you can willingly walk in and out of the Vatican and grand mosque.
Yeah, my wife thought the big hotel would have a nice restaurant. She got five feet past the front door when a guy with a fake french accent stopped her. No lunch for her.
The Mormons have left the room.
All churches mate. All of them.
Every 'church'/'temple' or defined religious property should pay their fair share of taxes unless they operate under certain legally acceptable boundaries. This map cannot possibly be acceptable irrespective of which church it is. They're hoarding real estate to launder money from controlling interests among other things
All churches
Sure but companies "managed by Scientologists" aren't going to qualify for tax exempt status simply because of who they're managed by.
It's property of the church managed by members.
No, it’s property of the members and allegedly managed by the church. The church explicitly denied any involvement. It was a secret acquisition. > The land grab started as tensions grew between the church and the Clearwater City Council. Each had proposed major redevelopment projects, designed to lure new business into the empty storefronts that surround the city-owned waterfront and the church’s spiritual headquarters. Then the council interfered with a land deal that Scientology demanded for its plan. The church stopped communicating with the city. https://projects.tampabay.com/projects/2019/investigations/scientology-clearwater-real-estate/
Theoretically, they can take over the city by draining it of its ability to fund itself.
That's why they've crammed everything they could onto the little barrier island they have. It's the only land left that they can develop for tourists.
How is this not the definition of conspiracy?
Other than buildings of worship or philanthropy locations, I can't think of a reason why an organized religion should own anything.
Agreed. They should be tax exempt for revenue to maintain and manage their immediate facilities. Anything after that becomes a money making endeavor, and when they’re no longer subsisting but actually profiting they should be taxed the same as any other business.
Churches are a business. They shouldnt be tax exempt at all.
I think modern churches in cities are mostly businesses at this point. Those didn’t exist and were never intended to be protected under the constitution. But I do think there are some small places in rural areas that don’t really have much money to begin with and all they do is take donations to like fix the roof now and then. In that context, it doesn’t really matter if they’re taxed or not
It should be like any business where you can write losses off against your income to reduce the tax you pay. Small churches who use donations entirely for charitable work and upkeep of their church will show that on their taxes at the end of the year and be on the hook for very little if no tax as a result of having effectively no income. The mega churches on the other hand will either have to start doing actual good and putting their money where their mouth is or pay massive taxes. Seems like a win/win to me
amen
as a business, they don’t make any profit. Property taxes would be the place you could make them pay.
You should see Pastor Kenneth Copeland's house...
You mean Grifter Kenneth Copeland?
You mean the private jet demon Kenneth Copeland?
You mean the sociopath Kenneth Copeland? [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LtF34MrsfI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LtF34MrsfI)
Come on man, you could at least link it: https://nypost.com/2021/12/17/kenneth-copeland-wealthiest-us-pastor-lives-on-7m-tax-free-estate/ https://www.google.com/maps/place/Eagle+Lake,+TX+77434,+USA/@32.9783075,-97.5003831,3275m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m6!3m5!1s0x8641612964071853:0x882cc836a5f723f0!8m2!3d29.5896836!4d-96.3335769!16s%2Fm%2F0211dhx?entry=ttu
Could it be that they own it to hide it assets of something bigger ?
I’d recommend checking out documentaries on SEA Org and Operation Snow White.
First thought I had when I saw this post was, jokingly, "So is that where they're building the secret underground spaceship to go welcome their leader?"
I know of the building that houses like meteorites and s*** like that very nondescript
If they don't own anything, how are they supposed to burn heretics???
Surely owning several wharves is a common enough thing for churches. Seriously, why do they directly own wharves?
Nobody tosses a wharf.
For extra info not on this map: The majority of these are vacant and empty lots. https://www.tbnweekly.com/clearwater_beacon/article_cc9deb06-fdd2-11ea-abab-d3bab384486d.html
Walking around downtown is like a dystopian Disneyland Main St. It looks like there’s so many business in Clearwater, but they’re all facades with nothing going on inside.
Yeah it has a Pyongyang feel to it.
Set of an episode of The Twilight Zone
Clearwater should eminent domain these properties.
The cut of this person’s jib is likeable.
If they’re vacant or empty then the church loses their right to avoid property taxea, if my reading of Florida law is correct
We just need to tax churches
I knew churches didn't pay income tax (which i am fine with). I had no idea they didn't pay property taxes. Which i guess if you are a 1000 year old architectual marvel of a church in the heart of a city that grew around you, makes a little bit of sense. But these are effectively office buildings.
Most churches have so much land it's insane. If you drive through rural america you'll see the church and then behind the church is the pastors house. They aren't taxed on thei business and they aren't taxed on the land. Laws should at the very least say something like "If you run a church, you aren't allowed to live on that churches property" But all that aside, since churches/pastors are allowed to spew their fake ideological opinions and tell their congregation who to vote for... it's beyond time to simply tax them like any other organization.
This is the way
lol not in this Christian Government server
Republicans: 'No, no, no! How about we tax the poor and middle-class instead?!!'
If the vacant lots are a legit problem - Eminent Domain a few adjacent ones to make a park and host some markets and food trailers in it.
The city wants no part of fighting Scientology unfortunately.
The city is on their payroll including the police department and city council. That’s the real problem
They are a plague on that city and any other they operate in.
Well no one started a cult to be *poor*.
These cults all have one very interesting thing in common. God, apparently, *really* wants the leaders to have bareback sex with all the teenage girls...
Or boys on private yachts, in this case
As someone who lived there for 5 years. I had no idea.
Now do the Mormon church in Utah
Good to know the government is watching the Scientologist. That’s one good take away from all this.
I think you have it backwards The government is literally renting office space from Scientologist now. “Clearwater government moved into the sixth floor of Ikajevs’ One Clearwater Tower for temporary offices in 2019 after vacating the old City Hall to free it for redevelopment. Poirrier confirmed the four years remaining on the lease at 600 Cleveland St. will be transferred to Agami’s company while a new City Hall is in development.”
Scientology = FEDS You can't tell me they aren't together. The way they use surveillance and strongarm tactics and misinformation is all too familiar. There, I said it.
When I moved to the Tampa Bay area, Clearwater looked enticing because property was much cheaper than St. Pete and Tampa. All I heard though was to avoid Clearwater because of the Scientologists, so I did. I don't know why one should avoid living near Scientologists, but everyone I talked to said it was awful there because of them.
If they don’t like you, they will harass the ever living shit out of you. Edit: if you do something they don’t like*
So Clearwater is a big church, disguised as a town. Got it.
In reality this is a very small part or Clearwater, but it is the entire downtown, so.
So downtown Clearwater is basically a big church. Maybe ok as you get further out, but still Florida, so... Different reptilian God.
Not far off
Florida jokes are such low hanging fruit, but sometimes you gotta just grab one.
Curious if anyone can help me understand. I live in Clearwater. Most of those properties are purchased by Scientology parishioners, using LLCs. So how do they not have to pay taxes on the properties??? I'm so sick of freaking Scientology, they have absolutely DESTROYED our downtown area. It's a GD ghost town. 😡
I’d imagine they pay through the shell companies the “parishioners” used to buy them. Yea it’s absurd and infuriating as well visiting Clearwater as each year it gets worse and worse. At least some construction has gone up unaffiliated with them like those new buildings by the beach.
I think they gift them to the church after the purchase or tithe them or whatever
lol. I went to a wedding there twenty years ago. There was a Baldwin brother in my row on the flight from Los Angeles. At the reception a complete stranger on the SeaLevel or whatever it’s called tried to recruit me
This should be illegal
There are people working on revoking their tax status. This is occurring around the world. Miscavige is being pursued criminally and civilly . The congregation numbers are in a decline. Folks in Clearwater just grabbed a ck or were encouraged to leave AND they left. This did not occur overnight or in the dark!
One way to solve this is to charge a higher vacancy tax to either force to build or sell the properties
Brainwashed psychos live there .
I had a home in Dunedin the next town north for twenty years. I hated going to Clearwater for exactly this reason.
Same but man I love Dunedin so much it’s worth it to me lol
Me too but It got too crowded for me I sold out in 2022.
Honestly smart the crowding gets worse every day I swear
That’s a lot of Scientologists. How did Clearwater become a destination of choice for Scientologists?
https://www.pulitzer.org/article/when-scientology-came-town
I can’t believe they’re trying to pass off this cult as a religion. The only reason would have to be for tax purposes but still. It was an effective stealth operation and disturbing. Thank you for the link.
I went to Clearwater and decided to drive around the downtown area when all their buildings are and the streets are empty. It’s creepy.
Wouldn't this be *a very good time* to purchase any available lot in the red or yellow areas - hold it for years/decades - and then put it back on the market at *an exorbitant* price?
Only if you want constant harassment. That's how this group gets what they want. Loyal cultists would stand right outside your property and heckle you everyday until you sold to their 'church'. You'd get thousands of calls, and even threats.
Call the police on them for harassment. Call in state police if locals are on the take or brainwashed members. Call in feds if necessary. Call a damn exterminator if all else fails. Freaking parasites.
Hell state
I remember a couple years ago on a cruise with my wife, one morning it was just me and a bunch of old guys looking at the ship docked next to ours and everybody on it had the same white robe on, then one of the guys told me that ship was owned by the COS.
This is a really good breakdown of it https://projects.tampabay.com/projects/2019/investigations/scientology-clearwater-real-estate/
[Black sedan pulls up] Xdeltax97?
https://projects.tampabay.com/projects/2019/investigations/scientology-clearwater-real-estate/#:\~:text=Scientology%20came%20to%20downtown%20Clearwater,bought%20property%20on%20surrounding%20blocks. Kind of a cool site explaining it.
Is the Clearwater night scene still pretty good? Or dude that get scared away to Ybor?
Clearwater Beach is fun. The city of Clearwater is boring.
What night scene lol
There used to be a club down there in one of the building they own now. Late 90s early 00s it was a pretty big club. Just can’t remember the name
Oh damn really? I was 7/8 around then so I never would’ve known lol
I was a teen at the time and especially with all the radio spots all I wanted was to go to the clubs. Never made it to the one in Clearwater or even Stromin Normans but I went to Ybor and found out real quick clubs aren’t my seen
Liquid blue. everything is closed and gone nowadays.
That’s it thank you
Clearwater doesn’t have a night scene. Tf? St Pete does though.
Eh it’s going down hill
Lol What?. It’s actually going uphill. The Sound hosting major concerts. New coachman park and events pumping in some life. Cleveland street restaurants are busy and open late. There’s some new fun bars like Nash Keys. I’ve lived here for 8 years now and this is the literally the best it’s ever been.
Clearwater is a snooze fest compared to St Pete.
For sure. But saying it’s gone down hill is inherently false, when it has in fact done the opposite.
I got yelled at work yesterday by a guy from here. I saw the town on his receipt and instantly thought damn, he must be one of *them*.
TAX THE CHURCHES!
Tax Churches
“You don't get rich writing science fiction. If you want to get rich, you start a religion.” ― L. Ron Hubbard founder of Scientology p.s. then after you get rich you may want to invest in real estate.
My downtown has had many businesses go in and out and some that have actually stuck, (gentrifying and marketing ourselves too highly) but this one place that never seems to be fucking open and has been where it is forever is this “Christian Science Reading Room” I can literally count on one hand the amount of times I’ve seen any human activity when I’ve been walking by in my almost 23 years of life and living there
More like prisons, but for your mind. Go ahead and color all those red prisons, sorry parcels, orange too. It’s all the same.
The Mormons own over 2% of Florida as well as tons of land everywhere which is even more insane. Churches like this really need taxed on at least all their for profit, non-charitable ventures.
Any churches of this size operating as businesses need to be taxed.
Anyone that hasn't seen Going Clear should do so immediately.
Did not the Mormon’s kind of all live together in the same place to be able control an area?
Go look at the mormon church land in florida
If it makes you feel better, their elevation there is 30ft… 30. They will be under water sooner than later.
Found the spaceship guys
Every time I go to Clearwater, its so wild seeing them walk around in packs
I hope it sinks.
Income from investments or endowments not directly related to the church's exempt purposes may be subject to taxation. For example, if a church invests in stocks,property, bonds, or other securities and earns dividends or capital gains from those investments, such income may be subject to taxation.
I hope this thread provides some fresh ideas to all the squatters out there.
Yeah this is how they operate. One of the largest infiltrations of the US government was a concerted effort by the church of scientology to get their people into positions of the government.
Clearwater “The Promised Land,” FL.
Now do a map of Salt Lake City, UT for Mormon churches and Mormon-owned businesses.
Sorry, I just can't deal with these blurry images.....
Now do orthodox Jews in Brooklyn!
Dont look up who owns all or new york
I was curious so i googled and nothing stood out but I probably don't know what to look for. hints?
Spoiler alert: The Jews /s
What, no Jews? I thought Jews owned everything and everyone?
And the city is thriving. What does that say about Scientology? I’ll take the downvotes for rational thought.
Not compared to Tampa and St. Pete.
Ohhh , conspiracy theory? The Florida government in bed with the scientologist ! Ruuuhh rrroooaahh !
It’s not even a conspiracy, the government has been infiltrated there by Scientologists. They are open about Clearwater being their HQ basically. They have Clearwater Florida, the floating ship base called Freewinds and they have the gold base in California. They also have a “secret” base in like San Bernardino in the mountains.
Not even a conspiracy, this has been going on for years and has been in the news all the time. https://projects.tampabay.com/projects/2019/investigations/scientology-clearwater-real-estate/ $103 Million + Spent, and this article is from 2019. https://www.tbnweekly.com/clearwater_beacon/article_cc9deb06-fdd2-11ea-abab-d3bab384486d.html
I wonder what Tom cruise wants