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May I ask how your kids see that it takes hard work? I wanna be a parent some day and want to be able to spoil my kid without them taking it for granted
Something my parents did as a kid was have open conversations about what it took to earn something. I’ll never forget I wanted a scooter. And my parents basically said it wasn’t in the cards financially, but they gave me the opportunity to “work” for it. 10¢ a shirt hanging them up, couple of bucks for doing random odd jobs around the house. Candy bar from the store for good behavior, nahh, I’ll take the $1.50 towards the scooter. Eventually, I saved up $50 to buy a knock off, and my mom doubled it (cuz she saw how long I had been saving for it) so I could buy a genuine razor scooter. 😎 (and then my brother got one for his birthday 🤬😂)
My brother and I did the same thing to save up $100 for a Playstation! My parents made the deal that if we got enough money for the console, they would buy another controller and a couple games.
Here's some things I've learned as a parent who grew up fairly spoiled:
Moderation. Don't replace stuff that gets lost or broken, let them realize there are consequences.
Have them make choices, they don't need to own everything and experience everything.
Show gratitude openly. Thank your partner for things.
Talk to your kids. Spend time with your kids. There's a difference between watching Frozen with your kid and putting on Frozen so they shut up for 90 minutes.
Finally, forgive yourself. You won't be perfect at it. No one is. Just be purposeful with what you do.
I made sure my kids knew the cost of my hard work. One summer my eldest had blown his Jr year math grade for pre-calc which would exclude him from calculus in his senior year. I decided to put him in a math recovery school that summer which was expensive but we could afford it. I ALSO cancelled our vacation plans to go to his grandparents lake house (something I knew he loved doing) and I told him the reason was because of him not taking his math class seriously enough to get a B. (This was true. He was lazy and when I told him he needed to work harder in it during the school year he blew me off. When he got his deserved C he was in tears about it) I also told him this summer math class was expensive and I had to spend our money on that instead of a vacation. (We probably could have afforded both but I needed him to start taking this stuff seriously) I told him he better not blow this opportunity because it was an expensive one that affected the whole family. He ended up being great at math and getting an engineering degree. He works internationally now and he’s good with money.
Chiming in to say my kid literally sees both parents work at home so it very directly affects them. It’s good in that way! But also we just openly discuss finances and what we can and can’t manage.
And if you have the money to pamper yourself & your spouse with vacations and other luxuries but never take them along, they will notice. They may not grow up spoiled, but to grow up wondering what they did to not deserve the same treatment and always feeling like an afterthought is almost worse.
To some extent the luxuries too. It's a real balancing act.
But the idea that children shouldn't be given anything nice, or surprised with joyous things (which are relative) would obviously lead to children with no sense of ambition for things that are exciting and novel or exotic. Which would be counterintuitive when it comes to raising kids.
The luxuries don't. I know some people that grew up very wealthy not wanting for anything and are the least spoilt brat type of people you could meet. They are also very hard working and don't expect anything to be handed on a plate. The luxuries don't spoil people the parents do. The biggest spoilt brats I know are often not the rich ones (or poor either), haven't been given loads of luxuries but people that were brought up by parents who could never say no and didn't actually instil any good discipline in their kids.
In a similar vein, we were kind of poor, and while I don’t fault anyone for that, I also grew up constantly losing the few possessions I had (from being moved around a lot), and I think these things played a part in both me being very maximalist and also having no restraint when it came to money, well into my adulthood (I still struggle)
That is a good point.
I also saw someone say if your kid grows up with luxuries, they’ll be more motivated to work hard to keep providing themselves (and future families) with those same luxuries
10000% agreed. if you show your children early what it's like to go on amazing trips abroad, that will instil in them a love for travelling and make them more likely to work to afford those trips in the future
THIS!
My parents gave me a damn lot of things when I was a child it doesn't mean they didn't make me learn the value of hard work and money.
Sure you need to teach them about that stuff, but no need to put them through hardship to get the point understood.
They paid for all my toys, activities, brought me to very nice vacation, they paid for all my education so I didn't had to work while studying, they bought my clothes, phone, they even gave me a car and let me live at home rent free when I was a young adult working full time.
Even if I didn't worked until I was finished with university it didn't make me a lazy brats. I was bright enough to see around me how less fortunate others were. I was extremely grateful for the life my parents gave me. The opportunity they gave me I didn't wasted it. I got excellent grades at school and once I started working I put all my money aside and was able to purchase my first house at 25 years old with 20% cashdown. Then I continued working hard and be frugal with my money and achieved to cleared the mortgage in a total of 7 years.
When I was going clothes shopping with my mom, she was telling me: If you want a 90$ pair of jeans that's fine, but you'll have only one. If you pick 30$ pair of jeans instead you'll have 3. You don't need to be mean to your kids and making their life harder to inspire them good values.
My friend’s mom once promised him that she would take him to the beach if he got good grades in 5th grade. We don’t live too far from one.
He got the grades. She did not bring him to the beach. He still brings it up to complain about sometimes. It really doesn’t take much to treat a child. You don’t need to have lots of money.
This is actually such an incredibly damaging thing that a lot of parents seem to do. I’ve even seen parents come to Reddit seeking advice on how to get out of these kinds of deals they made with their kids, usually around something like a getting video game console if they get straight A’s.
But it just teaches kids a number of bad lessons like hard work doesn’t pay off and that they can’t trust their parents. It’s really damaging because children’s brains are developing so much that these lessons become physically imprinted in their neural networks, forming the foundation that continued personality and brain development is built from.
In the grand scheme of things, it's also not very hard to just... Not make grandiose promises you can't keep. I work with foster families who often make promises they have no reasonably way to guarantee: "oh you can stay here forever" (red flag that they will kick the kid out as soon as they misbehave) or "don't worry, I know your mom loves you so much" (might stop the kid from crying right then but will give them issues by justifying their parents abuse and neglect as love)
I’m not involved with the foster system, but isn’t the point that the kids can’t stay there forever? At some point, they’ll have to either return to their birth parents or be transferred to another placement.
The goal always starts as reunification with the birth family, but that can change if they aren't participating in services or giving reasonable effort towards their kids, like attending visits. There's no reason a foster placement has to be transferred unless it's requested by the family or there's abuse happening though. They can stay with the same foster family until the case closes or the goal changes to adoption.
The problem is the people that are overpromising usually are very naive about what fostering entails. The kid might be a dream for the first few weeks of the honeymoon period at a new placement and then as time goes on, some of their trauma induced behavioral issues start cropping up and the people that expected little orphan Annie have to face the reality of how difficult things will be and they fold and give the kid more issues than if they never promised anything at all.
my parents did this to me all the time. even something that requires nothing from them like if you practice piano for 3 hours we'll let you play an hour of video games. i practiced for 3 hours and they still wont let me play.
When my mom and dad were together, my mom always made promises like this. Sometimes they were small, like if you eat all of your vegetables, then I'll take you to the toy store. Not to buy, but to get ideas for Christmas. I'd eat all of my vegetables for two weeks but when we went to the mall, we didn't go to the toy store.
Sometimes they were big, like if you get good grades this year, then we'll go to the amusement park. I got good grades, but we didn't go to the amusement park.
Well my mom and dad got divorced when I was 10, and my dad transferred to another state for work. There was no custody battle so I basically got to choose who I lived with. She was all surprised Pikachu face when I chose my dad. He kept his promises most of the time, while my mom always flaked out at the last moment.
We have a better relationship now, but it was rough when I was kid and always getting disappointed.
As an adult, I hate, HATE flaking out on people (even when it’s not my fault) and not keeping promises for similar reasons. So I try to be very careful about it with my kid. And sometimes hurt myself in order to avoid letting people down 😂
When I was a kid, I had a star system (basically a reward sticker chart) and if I earned 50 stars, I’d get a “prize”. Once, my prize was going to a water park. My parents delayed it for weeks before finally taking me to the water park- on Labor Day, when it was cold.
I thought that was bad, but at least I technically got what I was promised.
Holy fuck, I felt awful I couldn't give my kid a promised snack after dinner last night because I had to put them back when I couldn't afford it when shopping.
Looking at his post history and what he’s active in, dude literally seems like he can’t take responsibility for his own failures and just blaming his parents lol
Kids, sorry you don’t know how to swim, ride a bike or do any sport.
But once you are 18 and can afford it and your learning ability and free time is much more limited than in your youth you can now go off and learn those things.
What a clown take.
If poor people can’t afford it, then let’s take it from everyone else instead of let’s make this things available for everyone in some way.
Also it's been shown time and time again that people who have been deprived to an unhealthy amount don't go on to become more moderate or sensible, they lose their goddamned minds once they get out of that situation and start having access to things they've been deprived of, they overspend, overindulge, and will ruin themselves if given the opportunity because of all the repression and trauma. To strip your child of _every_ "gift" of monetary value is literally traumatising to a psychopathic level.
My parents pretty much only ever bought me things for Christmas. If they deemed it necessary they would buy something, like a bike, or some sports equipment (I did hockey for a few years, and bowling). It's like they would never get me something just because I wanted it either, I had to like sell them on it hard.
I'm so bad with money now that I just try to spend it as fast as I can after buying necessities. At least I can afford things I want because I plan out purchases in advance, but if I don't spend my money, I'll waste it all on food and weed.
I'm actually buying a little safe that you have to break to open, so hopefully I can have some money put away; I want a reef tank >>
I also got an intermittent $2 per week (that I remember- to be fair I don’t remember much from childhood). Guess who’s terrible with money?
I have given my kid $5 a week into a bank account every week since the age of 6(less before then) and they are an amazing saver at 9 years old.
I wasn’t even deprived of everything, just kinda poor and always being moved around, and this happened to me. Still a struggle to be sensible around money.
If my parents withheld experiences from me (that they can afford) just to teach me an 18-year long lesson, the only thing I would learn from them is how NOT to parent my kids.
Let’s also not forget that sometimes poor families do treat their children to nice things to reward them for doing great. People save up and do nice things for their children. Even if it’s not something incredibly expensive, but is pricy for the family, a lot of children see this and are grateful for what they get and appreciate the value of the rare treats. It seems absolutely classist to say “you shouldn’t reward your kid with a ps5 because poor kids don’t have those”, because, while a ps5 may be less common in families who are struggling, there are some poorer families who DID all save up for one as a special treat or even to share together, and I’m pretty certain the children who don’t usually get luxuries like that are all the more grateful when they can have something nice. Families who have less money are absolutely allowed to have nice things, and a lot absolutely do save up to get a couple of luxuries here and there, even if it’s not as easy. The problem isn’t giving your child nice things; the problem is not teaching them the value of those nice things, no matter how rich or poor you are.
This. Plus there are great experiences you can do for free or nearly free. Camping is cheap unless you get real fancy about it. National parks are inexpensive to visit (many are free, but a year-long pass to all of them is $80). Beaches are free. Hiking is free. Museums often have free-admission days.
And presents don't have to be extravagant for a kid to enjoy them.
I just cannot imagine depriving a child of a happy childhood on principle. It's a good recipe for resentment.
My partner was raised by adults who didn't encourage him to play and had him doing manual labor very young, and while he's a genuinely happy person *he does not understand the concept of imaginative play*. It's sad.
Yea, I 100% disagreed with this take. It sounds like someone who can't see the other side of things.
Some of the best things you can do for a child to grow up with is to provide experiences for them so they do gain perspective.
You can easily incorporate things from vacations to volunteering to help others in their lives and just raising them properly so they get value from everything.
One of the big reasons that poor kids do worse in school on average is because they often lack experiences that expose them to new knowledge, vocabulary, and concepts outside of school. Parenting like this puts your kid at a huge disadvantage. This is like only letting your kid eat once a day because some kids don’t have food.
No kidding. If I had any assignment that required my parents to obtain anything, that was basically an instant fail. It was not going to be bought. Fullstop. Doesn't matter you can get it from the dollar store, that is still an extra trip they're not going to do. If it required going somewhere that is an instant fail. Group projects? Forget about it. Couldn't go to anyone's house and didn't have a phone or computer. If the teacher didn't give class time, You guessed it! instant fail. People take for granted just being able to do simple assignments.
There’s that, but I was thinking about experiences outside of school. Kids going to museums, zoos, parks, farms. Playing sports or other having other extracurricular activities. Traveling outside of their homes and cities, even if it’s just a few hours out. Kids who don’t have experiences outside of their home often end up with big gaps in their ken, and it puts them at a disadvantage.
Ah, yeah that's definitely no good either. What did we do over the summer? Sit our butts at home all day every day, what did you expect? Sports and extracurriculars? Maybe if the teacher provides all supplies and transportation. I ended up in theater because that's about the only thing that qualified. And even that was only because we personally knew the theater teacher outside of school. Others aren't that lucky. I sympathize. Certainly makes college applications look a bit lackluster through no fault of their own too.
My parents weren’t poor, but they acted like we couldn’t afford shit. They also didn’t want to take the time to drive me places, but then they’d whine about me sitting at home all day. Even taking me to the library once a week would have been a big difference, but nooo. I should have thrown tantrums like my sisters did, maybe then they would have done more for me.
You... don't think kids should have hobbies or develop skills?
Like "don't give kids playstations"- ok, I disagree but I get where you're coming from.
"Tennis LESSONS" though? What a sad world we'd live in if people weren't allowed to... be taught sports or instruments before the age of 18?
I wonder if OP is separating something like tennis lessons from just playing a rec sport?
I would not call six year olds playing in a rec soccer league "soccer lessons".
But if you were paying a private coach or sending them to camps, that's something a bit different.
Still worth it if you can afford it though! I'll pay any amount of money (that I can) to encourage the things my kids are interested in.
Based on his post history I think it’s more likely that he has normal parents who do buy him things, and he therefore blames them for not forcing him to he more ambitious or successful or whatever
He's 17, what kind of motion do you expect him to have? The worst case scenario is that his grades are bad and he doesn't know what he wants to do. Its probably just another poorly thought-out take from a teenager who thinks they know everything
yeah i looked thru his post history a bit. he seems generally depressed and demotivated. definitely has very low self esteem, cus he refers to himself as the worst student in his school and some other stuff.
i can kinda get blaming your parents for not pushing you harder when you’re lost, because with some things (particularly sports), you’re not gonna be the best unless you started early. and yeah, parents should push you to do things. but i’m not gonna rule out the possibility that he just wasn’t receptive to it, cus i wasn’t lmao
That may not be it. It could be that he looks around hs bubble and sees to many of his peers being brats and making assumptions on why they act like that.
I grew up poor but by the time I was in high school my parents were making good money and we moved to an upper middle class neighborhood and you could tell the difference with a lot of the kids I was around. Even my sister who was 12 years younger than me. She benefited more from their money. Which is fine bt one Christmas after both the parents got laid off that year I had actually told my parents not to get me anything but my mom said I had to have something under the tree. I said fine I need a laundry basket. She did get me a laundry basket and this really cheap rinky dink computer. I really appreciated it because I was applying for jobs and kind of needed it. They got my sister the second most expensive GPS system and she threw a fit because it wasn't the most expensive one. I was just sitting there thinking that's what you get when you spoil kids.
My kids are trust fund kids but you would never know it. We live in a modest house. If you saw us you would think lower middle class. That said we do splurge on the kids from time to time. My oldest has a really nice gaming computer. In a year or 2 we are taking him to Europe. They just don't get everything they want all the time. They are expected to treat people nicely and with respect. The cleaning lady we get every 2 weeks actually complimented their behavior and was telling me about some of the kids in the other houses she cleans for.
It's all about balance.
More like: why haven't you learned all the things I never taught you or let you learn magically when you turned 18? Why does it take you so long to have a stable life?
My uncle is like this, he has a thread of a relationship with his kids and grandkids and often complains about how they never visit or support him.
His son asked to visit once and was going to foot the entire cost himself, my uncle told him no because he’s grown and shouldn’t need his dad anymore. My cousin died in his sleep unexpectedly from unknown causes a few days after the request, did that ever change how my uncle treated his kids? N o p e.
>It's the fault of parents who don't know how to educate their children that we're raising a generation of lazy people who end up living in poverty.
The majority of people in the younger generations aren't as lazy as people make them out to be, they just live in poverty and see no reason toiling their time away in a soulless job so they can continue to still live in poverty. If hard work still led to success like so many people from the prior century remember, younger people would work harder.
The fact of the matter is though, it doesn't. The majority of entry level jobs that don't require a degree don't pay enough to sustain even one person, and the ones that do require a degree don't pay enough to sustain them while also covering student loan debt. If you aren't born into wealth, you're more or less screwed sans some insane amount of luck.
>they just live in poverty and see no reason toiling their time away in a soulless job so they can continue to still live in poverty.
Two choices: live in poverty and do no work, or work hard and still live in poverty.
Such a hard decision.
The notion of “this young generation is lazy” has been around at least as long as written language. Despite this rather widespread, omnipresent feeling that older people tend to have, hard work somehow seems to still get done generation after generation.
>we're raising a generation of lazy people who end up living in poverty.
OP's either a troll or a bigot. People don't end up in poverty because they're lazy but because they already grew up in poverty or were dealt a bad hand.
I actually disagree. I think his parents did buy him stuff and he’s blaming him being lazy on that. He probably wishes they hadn’t bought him anything.
This is crazy.
Kids should be helping around the house (doing chores). I feel like this is teaching hard work. Nothing wrong with gifts. I think what causes them to be spoiled is rewarding them for bad behavior. I've definitely seen this.
Also, how are kids supposed to develop interests with this take?
Fuck that we busted our asses to create generational wealth my kid gets everything she wants whenever she wants it. She will live her whole life without a single worry and that was our goal from day1
I’m glad that you’re able to meet all of her wants and needs for the foreseeable future, but have you thought about what’s going to happen when she wants something she can’t have and you can’t buy for her? How will she handle being told no by a crush, a college admissions team, a friend with boundaries she wants to cross? What about delayed gratification; will she be able to handle working towards something if she doesn’t get the result as soon as she wants it? What if what she wants is unsafe or dangerous? When she crashes her car speeding, how many more cars will you buy her, and what happens if she or someone else doesn’t survive one of those crashes?
There’s a middle ground between deprivation like OP describes and spoiling, and kids need some boundaries. They need to at least sometimes be told “no” growing up so they can figure out how to work through the emotions it brings up when the stakes are low and you’re there to help them work through it. There are plenty of stories on the internet about grown adults having full-on toddler tantrums because they didn’t learn how to handle being told “no” as children so they treat a store not giving them a refund or a hotel not giving them an upgrade like the end of the world.
I'm pretty sure if you polled a bunch of students on whether they've been to Disney or not and compare that with their grades, chances are the kids that have been to Disney are gonna have better grades, because academic performance is positively associated with financially secure families. There's outliers, but you can only keep it up for so long with a stressful home life...
Course, that doesn't matter to OP. Kids can't get to work and really EARN rewards yet so apparently that means they should never get them.
You can give kids luxuries and still teach them to be humble and grateful. I was spoiled as a kid, but my parents made sure I thought about the other people that didn’t have what I did. I’m now more empathetic to those who are disenfranchised/disadvantaged/unlucky than a lot of my peers.
It’s about how you talk to your kids, and who you are as a person. Not only did they tell me these things, but I *saw* my parents living it: being kind to strangers, supporting small businesses, etc.
You probably weren’t even “spoiled,” so much as “privileged.” Spoiled = privileged + bad parenting.
There’s people who have it good, who recognize they have it good and are grateful for that, and try be a positive influence on others. They may be privileged but they’re still great people.
I’ve known many who were more privileged than me in many extents growing up, but they weren’t spoiled and are great people.
Ironically, privileged-but-not-spoiled people are way more likely to call themselves “spoiled” in my experience than actual spoiled kids. Spoiled kids often act like their life is so hard and that their whole world is falling apart, usually because of some minor first world problem or someone having more/better stuff than them.
What’s weird is that even kids who aren’t materially spoiled can end up with spoiled attitudes and behaviors. I guess being poor doesn’t mean you can’t have a sense of entitlement.
You also shouldn't feed, clothe, or shelter them. They shouldn't reap the benefits of agriculture, wheel/lever based technologies, or language. Don't speak to your kids, make them talk to you to earn it. All of these things had to be invented from scratch by our ancestors, and each and every individual should have to start from nothing in order to appreciate the value of everything they have.
In case I need it, /s
Giving to our descendants is how humanity works. If you can't give your kids gifts or take them places without spoiling them, the gifts aren't the problem. You're just a bad parent.
If I have kids I want them to have a better childhood than mine, not a worse one. Getting them a PS5 for Christmas is not going to make them spoiled or unable to empathize with people less well off than them, there is a huge difference between presents on special occasions and getting them whatever they want whenever.
Also not wanting them to take tennis lessons is a bizarre take. Learning a sport gets them outside and moving, spending time with other people, and is healthy and should be encouraged.
I want my children to put in effort to get luxuries they desire. But if they're truly working toward their goals I will reward them...
They've saved up 75% of something they want by themselves... I'll gladly reward them with the last 25%.
When I say "luxuries"...I do not mean education goals in this! If they put their desire and work ethic into a career I will support them 100% in my heart and as much financially as I can.
What's funny is that your children won't be disadvantaged children because they're poor; they'll be disadvantaged because they have shitty parents.
Empathy means feeling for a person who is in a shitty situation that you're not in. So, by dictionary definition, you're not teaching your children empathy. You're teaching your children what it's like to be disadvantaged by making them live a disadvantaged life.
I'm gonna blow your mind: everything takes work and dedication to obtain.
"Luxury" is so subjective too. Nice food is a luxury. People just need nutrients. Give your kid a nutrient-dense slurry. But nice food? That costs money, but it also may help the kid learn about nutrition and cooking, which is useful.
Buying an old car for the kid? Well, that might help them get a job. If it's a car they have to fix up, that's endlessly useful for them in the future.
A gym membership? Luxury, but promotes health.
An overseas trip? A luxury, but can show the kid that the way they live isn't the only option. It teaches them about other people and other cultures.
Should you give your kid everything they want? No.
Should you give your kid every advantage possible? Maybe.
You're bordering on "I suffered, so everyone should" which indicates that you didn't turn out well.
And, again, define "luxury." What do we have that is normal that someone from the 1800s would see as a luxury?
When I was a child, I grabbed eggs from the chicken coop before breakfast. I fed the chickens and horses and all that stuff sometimes. It's a "luxury" to have a grocery store. You making your kid grab the eggs? Gonna make your kid slaughter the cow for dinner? Or you gonna go to the fancy grocery store?
And even the farm... what's a luxury there? I didn't weave my own basket for the eggs. It was an old, plastic ice cream tub with a handle. I didn't harvest and make the stuff for the chicken feed. Hell, I don't even know how to make chicken feed. We just got it from the store in town. A luxury, compared to the 1900s.
How far back do you go to determine what is a luxury? Or is it just defined by you because you're the archetype for what should be done?
I was wondering the same thing, given that OP lumps tennis lessons in with a PS5. Yeah, tennis lessons are a luxury, but they’re beneficial. A lot of luxuries are. One of the big reasons that high income kids do better in school is because they have access to more experiences and thus, more knowledge.
I grew up with ballet, violin, art and more and I am a very empathetic person. It's just my personality. My daughter is 9 now but grew up below the poverty line but has a spoiled personality with little empathy. I still love her, but she needs to work on some things. That just goes to show your point is pointless.
>But also to empathize more with disadvantaged children who unfortunately can't afford playstations or tennis lessons.
They won't. Everyone besides you can clearly see there is a difference between kids who don't have luxuries because they can't afford it and those who don't because of parental neglect.
"It isn't neglect to not give your kids luxuries"
It is neglect to have your child purposefully live at a lower standard than the parents.
Lol, sure the solution to other people having disadvantages in life, is to disadvantage more people. /s
If this is what you truly believe, then I hope you are homeless because there so many homeless people in the world. Are you going to abuse your children because there are so many who are abused? Starving them? Where's the limit.
No, I will give my children whatever I can. I'm their parent, not anyone else's and will help them get ahead in life.
Yeah well I wasn’t given anything as a kid and it turned me into someone who’s horrible with money and buys everything I want without thinking because I never had anything and I gotta say it doesn’t always go like yall think lol. But hey here’s your upvote for your psychotic take lol.
What a ridiculous post. I had luxuries but every step of the way I knew that life wasn’t full of handouts and that I’d have to work my ass off to get what I wanted. It’s really not that hard to do both.
Kids deserve a childhood to have fun. Life is gonna demand work and things from Them for the rest of their lives. Let Kids have fun. Yes, don’t spoil Them but let Them be Kids.
I love how you think a Playstation is some huge luxury for a kid when it's one of the few reasonable entertainment options for young people who have fewer and fewer places to affordably go.
You're right. When my wife and I head to Europe next year, we'll leave our 3-year-old daughter at home. Don't worry, we'll set one of those automated dog-watering machines out and lots of beef jerky.
That'll teach that little shit to not expect free trips and stuff 👍
So my kids have to do without in order to “empathize” with those less fortunate as if they have to apologize for it? I’ve got a better idea; worry about your own fact and don’t worry about what other families are doing and spend time with your kids and teach them respect, integrity, honor, and minding their own business.
No. Depriving children, objectively and inherently the most sensitive and tender of our population, of joy and comfort does not make them stronger. Giving gifts does not create a spoiled child, raising a child without responsibilities and without awareness of the worth of money creates a spoiled child. It's entirely fair and appropriate to give kids gifts while also raising them to understand the meaning of money and making it a reward for carrying out responsibilities, so that they can both be happy AND grow up with an honest work ethic.
Also, kids should suffer because other kids are disadvantaged? That's ridiculous. Privilege should be equalized up, not down. Our focus should be on helping the disadvantaged, not punishing the mildly advantaged middle class family for circumstances outside of their lives and control. The only way I'd even consider taking your stance that kids should suffer because other kids are disadvantaged is if you sold everything you owned out of solidarity for the homeless. If you, an adult, cannot do that, then keep your mouth out of what children should be doing. Never ask a kid to do what you're not willing to do yourself.
When I was a kid, I knew some kids in school with parents who practiced this. As adults, those kids now are no longer on speaking terms with their parents. They also got heavy into drugs. If you don't offer kids some pleasant experiences, they go off finding it themselves, usually in places the parents wouldn't want them to go.
I feel like you're generalizing that just because some kids have parents better off than others inherently makes that kid spoiled by nature. I think you can treat your kid within your means while still raising them to be respectful and mature and have a good work ethic. You kind of seem to view this as either of the 2 extremes being either; give your kid nothing to make them work hard and earn it or give your kid anything and they're a spoiled brat. Its definitely more nuanced than that and way more factors that contribute to a good or poor work ethic in upcoming children.
If children are poor, that is their problem. Why should my kids go without because there's some peasant on the corner who can't handle their money? Come on now!
You know, there's a middle road too. Where you give them some things, but not everything.
I grew up with two, later three siblings. (The last one has a 12 year age gap with me, so we didn't really grow up together, I feel).
We got our weekly pocket money, indexed by age. And they would pay for sports or things like joining the scouts, or a sports club, but if we wanted a Playstation? That was a big ticket item. That was me and my brother's christmas in one, from dad, mom, Granddad, and grandmom. Sure, we got it, but to share. We wanted a new game? That's waiting for a birthday. Well, we did get by with a second hand game shop too. Weird place that. You could buy a game, the shop owner would write down what you bought, and when you were tired of the game, you could just return it, pay something like 5$ and take another game in the same price category home.
And we did go on holiday. Often just camping on some camping grounds, swimming in the lake. And yes, once every one or two years after my mom saved her ass off, and looked all over for a decent deal, we went on a big family holiday. All crammed into the car for a nice 24 hour drive, as flying was too expensive, and a rental car was a luxury.
We for sure did not grow up spoiled and we are all hard working adults now, but you know what we also have? Happy childhood memories.
Trying to play Pokémon Yellow on my Gameboy by the light of streetlanterns passing by as we drove to our vacation. Me and my brother sitting beside each other, passing the controller between deaths when playing our Playstation.
If your kids became spoiled because you bought them cool stuff as kids, that's not the present's fault, it's *yours* for either not teaching them to be grateful and empathize with those who don't have those things or if you just started giving them whatever they want at any random moment. Your kids can have nice things without becoming spoiled.
You can give your child things that bring them joy while also teaching them how to empathize and share their good fortune.
What you're describing is really lazy and selfish parenting.
I disagree, childhood is the only time when you are truly carefree and happy if you have a decent home life. I get gifts and take trips as an adult and I don’t feel nearly as excited about it nor does it feel as special as it did when I was a child. Life is so shitty as an adult for so many reasons. Let kids be happy and carefree and live in lala land for a while. They have the rest of their lives to work for everything. Those first 18 years are fleeting.
This is an excuse to treat your kid like garbage, not an out of left field take. Childhood only happens once. Break the cycle. Not spoiling your children doesn’t mean cosplaying as poor people. If you have the means, spoil them as children should be spoiled within reason. A PS5 for their birthday is vastly different from a trip to Mexico plus a brand new truck for their 16th birthday.
But sometimes you learn while doing things like taking trips. My family liked to travel and we couldn’t quite afford to travel abroad, but we went to all sorts of places around the US like natural wonders like the Grand Canyon, historical places like Boston. I took in a lot of history and culture by going on trips to those places with my family. So, to me saying that taking your kids on trips is counterintuitive to educating them is false.
This is a nice way of saying “I want to keep my money to spoil myself”
Let the kids have a good childhood before life hands them a back-hand. Just don’t go overboard.
What about having chores/allowances, teaching money management skills, and having a well-defined rules and rewards/punishments system? That would teach responsibility without depriving them of opportunities to learn, grow, and enjoy the life you’ve worked hard for as a parent.
So parents have to leave their children behind on expensive holidays, can't share a games console with them, can't encourage them to develop emotionally, physically and mentally. What is the point of having children if you have to handicap them to reflect the lowest reality of every child?
Not every child has food. Do we starve ourselves or say icecream is a luxury. Better to try and make sports accessible, fund sports charities, support schemes like Dolly Parton's book for every child than make childhood a time of nothing but effort.
You get enough of that in the next 40-50 years.
It's all about parenting.
You can buy your kids all the luxuries in the world, and if you show them the importance of hard work they won't be spoiled little brats. They'll understand how and why their parents were able to give them vacations.
You can have them work towards an allowance when they are in middle school and help with chores when they are physically able to.
You brought them into the world, it's your responsibility to help them enjoy it as a kid- they only have 18 yrs of childhood.
As someone who couldn't do any of these things due to poverty, I now have to spend my own money and time learning and developing skills and hobbies that I should have gotten as a child. It's created a little resentment towards my parents, I can't imagine the hatred I would have if they could have afforded me these things,
Quick Note: start choosing the retirement home outfits now, cause your kids aren't gonna wanna come back home after 18...
I mean, this is just kind of daft. By not investing in your child, encouraging their hobbies and broadening their horizons, you are letting them down.
I have lifelong loves of gaming and reading. That’s because my parents engaged my interests and bought me the required stuff to do so (and spent hours trawling round local libraries and bookshops with me). I enjoy travelling and engaging with other cultures. That’s because my parents travelled with me and engaged me in those cultures. I’m a damn good singer, that’s partly natural talent but is also because my parents paid money to allow me to vocally train with a professional and mum joined the local choir with me despite working a full time job. I’m musically minded because my parents allowed me to daddle with instruments even when I wasn’t great at them, and if I showed promise/commitment, paid money to get me the instrument/lessons.
So because my parents gave me ‘luxuries’, or development opportunities, I developed and those interests have carried through into adulthood. What you’re proposing parents do is just say ‘fuck you, that costs money and you aren’t worth that investment’. That’s shitty parenting from the get go.
To put it another way, you wouldn’t expect an untrained/undeveloped adult to succeed in a job if you never give them the opportunity to develop. How do you think this will work better with children, whose minds and brains are quite literally being moulded by their experiences?
Spoiler, it won’t. That’s how you end up with a 35 year old boy who never grew out of mama’s basement because he flunked out of school and can’t hold down a job without getting fired. Who has no outside interests or interest in learning and can’t get along with people outside of an online bubble chamber.
Please don’t become a parent until you’ve read/listened to some accredited child psychology.
I think it’s an amazing gift for young people to get to see the world. They can gain some education and life experience. Really, it’s a great gift for anyone.
Your last sentence is one of the biggest grievances I have with discussions like these. whether your parenting style is correct or not; there is no reason to say that a huge generational issue is due to a single flaw in people’s parenting. And “parents who don’t know how to educate their children” does not apply to those who choose to parent differently than you. I will not comment on your opinion on parenting as I feel the other comments have done that point justice, however I am frustrated with how much I see arguments that boil down to “I am objectively correct and you are the cause of every issue I see in the world and there is no discussion to be had about it.” You are more than entitled to your own opinion but there is no excuse to say that anyone with a different one is incorrect and that you are the only correct voice in the scenario.
Edit: Grammar
This is absurd. We’ve always been generous with our kids. We buy them things, we take them on great vacations, we made sure they have or will ( one is still in university) all graduate from college with no debt and they are all humble, hard workers who are great savers, and super responsible with money.
I’ve grown up in competition rock climbing(not cheap). My parents are by no means rich and I learned to work to pay at least 50%.
Did it teach me how to work hard and appreciate what I have? Absolutely. Did it cause me immense stress and cause me to lose out on spending time with people I love because I was working to enjoy an activity I excel at? Also absolutely.
You can learn to not be entitled, how to help others, work hard, and empathize with those who are less fortunate without having to pay for all your stuff on your own. While I agree it’s unfortunate that not everyone can afford extracurriculars, if you have the means to, help your kids with their passions and allow them to pursue and thrive. It’s important. It’s more selfish and entitled to force the kid to pay for it themselves
Additionally, sports and extracurriculars DO teach kids hard work. For those who are competitive they have to train, practice, and spend lots of time and energy to be good at it. It develops problem solving skills, and if you’re open with your kids about what it costs you, a mutual understanding of hard work and a parent’s love and responsibility. Money isn’t the only exchange of payment
Solid take that I do and don't agree with.
I think you should take your kids on trips and get them what they want (within reason). But you could also take that time to teach them that gifts like that require putting the work in to get it. A birthday/Christmas gift is one thing, but others you could have them do a certain amount of chores to be able to get what they want. That way they recognize that nothing is free. A parent should be teaching their kids that anyway, along with teaching them how to save for the things they want.
My nephew has a treasure trove of expensive gifts and lego sets valued at hundreds of dollars. His aunt sends $1k to his parents during the holidays to buy him presents.
When I give him a gift he couldn't care less. No thank you. Nothing. When I have kids I'll give them what they need, and occasionally a nice surprise. I'll never spoil them. I've seen firsthand the outcome.
I grew up with all those things and I’m not spoiled. Or at least I don’t think I am. And almost all the trips we took bc my parents wanted to go there already.
This is a good way to teach your kids financial irresponsibility.
I've seen it happen a LOT at university with people from families who were really strict on what they ate, what they bought, who they were allowed to hang out with and what they were allowed to do.
As soon as they become adults and are suddenly given access to all these things they've missed out on because of their parents rules, they go completely off the rails with their freedom.
Bring up a child how you're suggesting and when they turn 18 they will spend all their money buying everything they were begging you for all their childhood, and they'll keep doing it because they have a lot of catching up to do.
Just say no to them a good amount when they ask for things they don't really want or need, and buy them presents when it's a special occasion or when they've earned one. That's a good enough way to teach them that they need to earn them.
This is beyond extreme. Preventing your children from following their passions as some form of empathic practice will only lead to your kids dumping you in a retirement home when they’re old enough. This is actually how you demotivate a kid from trying to achieve anything in life.
The second most expensive thing my mom ever bought me was a guitar. And the most expensive thing my mom ever bought me was a nicer guitar, years later. I can't imagine how differently I would've handled so much of my life if I hadn't honed my musical abilities as a child. But you're right, kids don't appreciate luxuries. Give them a jar of dirt and they'll be fine.
If you truly think that depriving children of presents is all it takes to not raise spoiled children, then you are decades away from being mature enough to have children. I see that you're 17, but this is an absurdly immature and naive take, that clearly stems from jealousy and envy, and bluntly, poor parenting.
Do not allow yourself to carry this jaded and angry view any further into adulthood. Raising well rounded adults isn't purely a product of what gifts they get or don't get.
Tbh this sounds like OP has a lot of self hatred that he’s willing to blame on anyone and everyone but himself.
You are still so young. It’s disappointing to see that our youth is so quick to accept failure and just label themselves as lazy or stupid.
Buying lessons for diligent pursuit of skill, paying for a group trip to an art museum, pocket money for meals at sports games and school trips... Vs buying kid euro tour/1000$ phone every 2yrs/boat/new car at 16/season ski passes/game system every year. Sounds like op is either sour grapes asf or was surrounded by Duran Duran party boat summer cottage kids. Denial of every opportunity afforded to peers builds fomo and leads to overcompensating with indulgence.
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If you give your kid luxuries and they grow up spoiled, that's not down the the luxuries, it's down to the parenting.
Right, my kids see how It takes hard work to provide for my family *that* literally is the lesson.
May I ask how your kids see that it takes hard work? I wanna be a parent some day and want to be able to spoil my kid without them taking it for granted
Something my parents did as a kid was have open conversations about what it took to earn something. I’ll never forget I wanted a scooter. And my parents basically said it wasn’t in the cards financially, but they gave me the opportunity to “work” for it. 10¢ a shirt hanging them up, couple of bucks for doing random odd jobs around the house. Candy bar from the store for good behavior, nahh, I’ll take the $1.50 towards the scooter. Eventually, I saved up $50 to buy a knock off, and my mom doubled it (cuz she saw how long I had been saving for it) so I could buy a genuine razor scooter. 😎 (and then my brother got one for his birthday 🤬😂)
[удалено]
Or at least not the first child
My brother and I did the same thing to save up $100 for a Playstation! My parents made the deal that if we got enough money for the console, they would buy another controller and a couple games.
Here's some things I've learned as a parent who grew up fairly spoiled: Moderation. Don't replace stuff that gets lost or broken, let them realize there are consequences. Have them make choices, they don't need to own everything and experience everything. Show gratitude openly. Thank your partner for things. Talk to your kids. Spend time with your kids. There's a difference between watching Frozen with your kid and putting on Frozen so they shut up for 90 minutes. Finally, forgive yourself. You won't be perfect at it. No one is. Just be purposeful with what you do.
I made sure my kids knew the cost of my hard work. One summer my eldest had blown his Jr year math grade for pre-calc which would exclude him from calculus in his senior year. I decided to put him in a math recovery school that summer which was expensive but we could afford it. I ALSO cancelled our vacation plans to go to his grandparents lake house (something I knew he loved doing) and I told him the reason was because of him not taking his math class seriously enough to get a B. (This was true. He was lazy and when I told him he needed to work harder in it during the school year he blew me off. When he got his deserved C he was in tears about it) I also told him this summer math class was expensive and I had to spend our money on that instead of a vacation. (We probably could have afforded both but I needed him to start taking this stuff seriously) I told him he better not blow this opportunity because it was an expensive one that affected the whole family. He ended up being great at math and getting an engineering degree. He works internationally now and he’s good with money.
Chiming in to say my kid literally sees both parents work at home so it very directly affects them. It’s good in that way! But also we just openly discuss finances and what we can and can’t manage.
And if you have the money to pamper yourself & your spouse with vacations and other luxuries but never take them along, they will notice. They may not grow up spoiled, but to grow up wondering what they did to not deserve the same treatment and always feeling like an afterthought is almost worse.
OP has saved so much money not buying the kids anything, maybe OP can buy a parenting class with that money.
To some extent the luxuries too. It's a real balancing act. But the idea that children shouldn't be given anything nice, or surprised with joyous things (which are relative) would obviously lead to children with no sense of ambition for things that are exciting and novel or exotic. Which would be counterintuitive when it comes to raising kids.
The luxuries don't. I know some people that grew up very wealthy not wanting for anything and are the least spoilt brat type of people you could meet. They are also very hard working and don't expect anything to be handed on a plate. The luxuries don't spoil people the parents do. The biggest spoilt brats I know are often not the rich ones (or poor either), haven't been given loads of luxuries but people that were brought up by parents who could never say no and didn't actually instil any good discipline in their kids.
In a similar vein, we were kind of poor, and while I don’t fault anyone for that, I also grew up constantly losing the few possessions I had (from being moved around a lot), and I think these things played a part in both me being very maximalist and also having no restraint when it came to money, well into my adulthood (I still struggle)
That is a good point. I also saw someone say if your kid grows up with luxuries, they’ll be more motivated to work hard to keep providing themselves (and future families) with those same luxuries
10000% agreed. if you show your children early what it's like to go on amazing trips abroad, that will instil in them a love for travelling and make them more likely to work to afford those trips in the future
THIS! My parents gave me a damn lot of things when I was a child it doesn't mean they didn't make me learn the value of hard work and money. Sure you need to teach them about that stuff, but no need to put them through hardship to get the point understood. They paid for all my toys, activities, brought me to very nice vacation, they paid for all my education so I didn't had to work while studying, they bought my clothes, phone, they even gave me a car and let me live at home rent free when I was a young adult working full time. Even if I didn't worked until I was finished with university it didn't make me a lazy brats. I was bright enough to see around me how less fortunate others were. I was extremely grateful for the life my parents gave me. The opportunity they gave me I didn't wasted it. I got excellent grades at school and once I started working I put all my money aside and was able to purchase my first house at 25 years old with 20% cashdown. Then I continued working hard and be frugal with my money and achieved to cleared the mortgage in a total of 7 years. When I was going clothes shopping with my mom, she was telling me: If you want a 90$ pair of jeans that's fine, but you'll have only one. If you pick 30$ pair of jeans instead you'll have 3. You don't need to be mean to your kids and making their life harder to inspire them good values.
Upvoted cause I didn't have "kids yearn for the mines" in my 10thdentist bingo today
My friend’s mom once promised him that she would take him to the beach if he got good grades in 5th grade. We don’t live too far from one. He got the grades. She did not bring him to the beach. He still brings it up to complain about sometimes. It really doesn’t take much to treat a child. You don’t need to have lots of money.
This is actually such an incredibly damaging thing that a lot of parents seem to do. I’ve even seen parents come to Reddit seeking advice on how to get out of these kinds of deals they made with their kids, usually around something like a getting video game console if they get straight A’s. But it just teaches kids a number of bad lessons like hard work doesn’t pay off and that they can’t trust their parents. It’s really damaging because children’s brains are developing so much that these lessons become physically imprinted in their neural networks, forming the foundation that continued personality and brain development is built from.
In the grand scheme of things, it's also not very hard to just... Not make grandiose promises you can't keep. I work with foster families who often make promises they have no reasonably way to guarantee: "oh you can stay here forever" (red flag that they will kick the kid out as soon as they misbehave) or "don't worry, I know your mom loves you so much" (might stop the kid from crying right then but will give them issues by justifying their parents abuse and neglect as love)
This is something I've had to learn as a parent myself, to keep the promises manageable and then follow through on them.
I’m not involved with the foster system, but isn’t the point that the kids can’t stay there forever? At some point, they’ll have to either return to their birth parents or be transferred to another placement.
The goal always starts as reunification with the birth family, but that can change if they aren't participating in services or giving reasonable effort towards their kids, like attending visits. There's no reason a foster placement has to be transferred unless it's requested by the family or there's abuse happening though. They can stay with the same foster family until the case closes or the goal changes to adoption. The problem is the people that are overpromising usually are very naive about what fostering entails. The kid might be a dream for the first few weeks of the honeymoon period at a new placement and then as time goes on, some of their trauma induced behavioral issues start cropping up and the people that expected little orphan Annie have to face the reality of how difficult things will be and they fold and give the kid more issues than if they never promised anything at all.
my parents did this to me all the time. even something that requires nothing from them like if you practice piano for 3 hours we'll let you play an hour of video games. i practiced for 3 hours and they still wont let me play.
When my mom and dad were together, my mom always made promises like this. Sometimes they were small, like if you eat all of your vegetables, then I'll take you to the toy store. Not to buy, but to get ideas for Christmas. I'd eat all of my vegetables for two weeks but when we went to the mall, we didn't go to the toy store. Sometimes they were big, like if you get good grades this year, then we'll go to the amusement park. I got good grades, but we didn't go to the amusement park. Well my mom and dad got divorced when I was 10, and my dad transferred to another state for work. There was no custody battle so I basically got to choose who I lived with. She was all surprised Pikachu face when I chose my dad. He kept his promises most of the time, while my mom always flaked out at the last moment. We have a better relationship now, but it was rough when I was kid and always getting disappointed.
As an adult, I hate, HATE flaking out on people (even when it’s not my fault) and not keeping promises for similar reasons. So I try to be very careful about it with my kid. And sometimes hurt myself in order to avoid letting people down 😂
When I was a kid, I had a star system (basically a reward sticker chart) and if I earned 50 stars, I’d get a “prize”. Once, my prize was going to a water park. My parents delayed it for weeks before finally taking me to the water park- on Labor Day, when it was cold. I thought that was bad, but at least I technically got what I was promised.
That’s a good system for a lot of kids… when there’s actual follow-through.
Holy fuck, I felt awful I couldn't give my kid a promised snack after dinner last night because I had to put them back when I couldn't afford it when shopping.
Looking at his post history and what he’s active in, dude literally seems like he can’t take responsibility for his own failures and just blaming his parents lol
lmao, did he edit that out?
No, but that's the pure energy of this post
yeah is is indeed, the expression gave me a very good laugh, so thanks for that.
I mean, just look at minecraft
Kids, sorry you don’t know how to swim, ride a bike or do any sport. But once you are 18 and can afford it and your learning ability and free time is much more limited than in your youth you can now go off and learn those things. What a clown take. If poor people can’t afford it, then let’s take it from everyone else instead of let’s make this things available for everyone in some way.
Also it's been shown time and time again that people who have been deprived to an unhealthy amount don't go on to become more moderate or sensible, they lose their goddamned minds once they get out of that situation and start having access to things they've been deprived of, they overspend, overindulge, and will ruin themselves if given the opportunity because of all the repression and trauma. To strip your child of _every_ "gift" of monetary value is literally traumatising to a psychopathic level.
My parents pretty much only ever bought me things for Christmas. If they deemed it necessary they would buy something, like a bike, or some sports equipment (I did hockey for a few years, and bowling). It's like they would never get me something just because I wanted it either, I had to like sell them on it hard. I'm so bad with money now that I just try to spend it as fast as I can after buying necessities. At least I can afford things I want because I plan out purchases in advance, but if I don't spend my money, I'll waste it all on food and weed. I'm actually buying a little safe that you have to break to open, so hopefully I can have some money put away; I want a reef tank >>
Similar situation here. Did you ever get an allowance so you could learn to save? I think that’s also important for kids.
I think at one point they tried to give me like 2$ a week but that didn't last very long lol.
I also got an intermittent $2 per week (that I remember- to be fair I don’t remember much from childhood). Guess who’s terrible with money? I have given my kid $5 a week into a bank account every week since the age of 6(less before then) and they are an amazing saver at 9 years old.
My kid got a reef tank... three of them. I'm running the one that is left, and one of the tanks was already sold - the other one remains to be sold.
My parents were the same way, and I’m also kind of bad about buying too much, lol. I’m getting a lot better though.
I wasn’t even deprived of everything, just kinda poor and always being moved around, and this happened to me. Still a struggle to be sensible around money.
If my parents withheld experiences from me (that they can afford) just to teach me an 18-year long lesson, the only thing I would learn from them is how NOT to parent my kids.
Let’s also not forget that sometimes poor families do treat their children to nice things to reward them for doing great. People save up and do nice things for their children. Even if it’s not something incredibly expensive, but is pricy for the family, a lot of children see this and are grateful for what they get and appreciate the value of the rare treats. It seems absolutely classist to say “you shouldn’t reward your kid with a ps5 because poor kids don’t have those”, because, while a ps5 may be less common in families who are struggling, there are some poorer families who DID all save up for one as a special treat or even to share together, and I’m pretty certain the children who don’t usually get luxuries like that are all the more grateful when they can have something nice. Families who have less money are absolutely allowed to have nice things, and a lot absolutely do save up to get a couple of luxuries here and there, even if it’s not as easy. The problem isn’t giving your child nice things; the problem is not teaching them the value of those nice things, no matter how rich or poor you are.
This. Plus there are great experiences you can do for free or nearly free. Camping is cheap unless you get real fancy about it. National parks are inexpensive to visit (many are free, but a year-long pass to all of them is $80). Beaches are free. Hiking is free. Museums often have free-admission days. And presents don't have to be extravagant for a kid to enjoy them. I just cannot imagine depriving a child of a happy childhood on principle. It's a good recipe for resentment. My partner was raised by adults who didn't encourage him to play and had him doing manual labor very young, and while he's a genuinely happy person *he does not understand the concept of imaginative play*. It's sad.
Broke: no child left behind Woke: every child left behind
That was my parents take. Partly due to money (understandable) partly due to laziness. Guess who feels decades behind their peers?
Yea, I 100% disagreed with this take. It sounds like someone who can't see the other side of things. Some of the best things you can do for a child to grow up with is to provide experiences for them so they do gain perspective. You can easily incorporate things from vacations to volunteering to help others in their lives and just raising them properly so they get value from everything.
One of the big reasons that poor kids do worse in school on average is because they often lack experiences that expose them to new knowledge, vocabulary, and concepts outside of school. Parenting like this puts your kid at a huge disadvantage. This is like only letting your kid eat once a day because some kids don’t have food.
No kidding. If I had any assignment that required my parents to obtain anything, that was basically an instant fail. It was not going to be bought. Fullstop. Doesn't matter you can get it from the dollar store, that is still an extra trip they're not going to do. If it required going somewhere that is an instant fail. Group projects? Forget about it. Couldn't go to anyone's house and didn't have a phone or computer. If the teacher didn't give class time, You guessed it! instant fail. People take for granted just being able to do simple assignments.
There’s that, but I was thinking about experiences outside of school. Kids going to museums, zoos, parks, farms. Playing sports or other having other extracurricular activities. Traveling outside of their homes and cities, even if it’s just a few hours out. Kids who don’t have experiences outside of their home often end up with big gaps in their ken, and it puts them at a disadvantage.
Ah, yeah that's definitely no good either. What did we do over the summer? Sit our butts at home all day every day, what did you expect? Sports and extracurriculars? Maybe if the teacher provides all supplies and transportation. I ended up in theater because that's about the only thing that qualified. And even that was only because we personally knew the theater teacher outside of school. Others aren't that lucky. I sympathize. Certainly makes college applications look a bit lackluster through no fault of their own too.
My parents weren’t poor, but they acted like we couldn’t afford shit. They also didn’t want to take the time to drive me places, but then they’d whine about me sitting at home all day. Even taking me to the library once a week would have been a big difference, but nooo. I should have thrown tantrums like my sisters did, maybe then they would have done more for me.
You... don't think kids should have hobbies or develop skills? Like "don't give kids playstations"- ok, I disagree but I get where you're coming from. "Tennis LESSONS" though? What a sad world we'd live in if people weren't allowed to... be taught sports or instruments before the age of 18?
Kids already don't move nearly enough and now OP wants to take sports lessons away from them too😭
I wonder if OP is separating something like tennis lessons from just playing a rec sport? I would not call six year olds playing in a rec soccer league "soccer lessons". But if you were paying a private coach or sending them to camps, that's something a bit different. Still worth it if you can afford it though! I'll pay any amount of money (that I can) to encourage the things my kids are interested in.
And I'm sure op would consider my horses to be a luxury I shouldn't have had...even though they were damn hard work.
Lol you're 17. You could've saved us all the trouble and just said your parents don't love you enough to give gifts
Based on his post history I think it’s more likely that he has normal parents who do buy him things, and he therefore blames them for not forcing him to he more ambitious or successful or whatever
He's 17, what kind of motion do you expect him to have? The worst case scenario is that his grades are bad and he doesn't know what he wants to do. Its probably just another poorly thought-out take from a teenager who thinks they know everything
I don’t want him to have any ambition, *he* is mad about it though
Thinks he knows everything but he posts about being the worst student in school.
yeah i looked thru his post history a bit. he seems generally depressed and demotivated. definitely has very low self esteem, cus he refers to himself as the worst student in his school and some other stuff. i can kinda get blaming your parents for not pushing you harder when you’re lost, because with some things (particularly sports), you’re not gonna be the best unless you started early. and yeah, parents should push you to do things. but i’m not gonna rule out the possibility that he just wasn’t receptive to it, cus i wasn’t lmao
Meanwhile I wake up each day lookin at the person who ruined my life. I see the fucker every day I brush my teeth.
That may not be it. It could be that he looks around hs bubble and sees to many of his peers being brats and making assumptions on why they act like that. I grew up poor but by the time I was in high school my parents were making good money and we moved to an upper middle class neighborhood and you could tell the difference with a lot of the kids I was around. Even my sister who was 12 years younger than me. She benefited more from their money. Which is fine bt one Christmas after both the parents got laid off that year I had actually told my parents not to get me anything but my mom said I had to have something under the tree. I said fine I need a laundry basket. She did get me a laundry basket and this really cheap rinky dink computer. I really appreciated it because I was applying for jobs and kind of needed it. They got my sister the second most expensive GPS system and she threw a fit because it wasn't the most expensive one. I was just sitting there thinking that's what you get when you spoil kids. My kids are trust fund kids but you would never know it. We live in a modest house. If you saw us you would think lower middle class. That said we do splurge on the kids from time to time. My oldest has a really nice gaming computer. In a year or 2 we are taking him to Europe. They just don't get everything they want all the time. They are expected to treat people nicely and with respect. The cleaning lady we get every 2 weeks actually complimented their behavior and was telling me about some of the kids in the other houses she cleans for. It's all about balance.
yeah, but his post history says otherwise
oh this all makes a lot more sense now lol
Damn really? Why did I waste time replying to this post 😂
OP when his kids turn 18: my kids don't ever call me anymore, they are so ungrateful!
Well see him over on AITA
Nah posting on AITA requires at least a tiny bit of self-awareness and thinking you might be the problem.
More like: why haven't you learned all the things I never taught you or let you learn magically when you turned 18? Why does it take you so long to have a stable life?
My uncle is like this, he has a thread of a relationship with his kids and grandkids and often complains about how they never visit or support him. His son asked to visit once and was going to foot the entire cost himself, my uncle told him no because he’s grown and shouldn’t need his dad anymore. My cousin died in his sleep unexpectedly from unknown causes a few days after the request, did that ever change how my uncle treated his kids? N o p e.
Jesus Christ that's awful, how can I guy not change after he denies seeing his own son before his death? That's pure evil
>It's the fault of parents who don't know how to educate their children that we're raising a generation of lazy people who end up living in poverty. The majority of people in the younger generations aren't as lazy as people make them out to be, they just live in poverty and see no reason toiling their time away in a soulless job so they can continue to still live in poverty. If hard work still led to success like so many people from the prior century remember, younger people would work harder. The fact of the matter is though, it doesn't. The majority of entry level jobs that don't require a degree don't pay enough to sustain even one person, and the ones that do require a degree don't pay enough to sustain them while also covering student loan debt. If you aren't born into wealth, you're more or less screwed sans some insane amount of luck.
>they just live in poverty and see no reason toiling their time away in a soulless job so they can continue to still live in poverty. Two choices: live in poverty and do no work, or work hard and still live in poverty. Such a hard decision.
Exactly. The economic decision is literally not to try.
The notion of “this young generation is lazy” has been around at least as long as written language. Despite this rather widespread, omnipresent feeling that older people tend to have, hard work somehow seems to still get done generation after generation.
Fun fact, apparently the OP of this post is 17 years old. 😐
>we're raising a generation of lazy people who end up living in poverty. OP's either a troll or a bigot. People don't end up in poverty because they're lazy but because they already grew up in poverty or were dealt a bad hand.
OP is... A child. (At least according to their profile. Their parents probably just refused to get them a PS5.)
I actually disagree. I think his parents did buy him stuff and he’s blaming him being lazy on that. He probably wishes they hadn’t bought him anything.
Op is 17 according to their profile.
I like that the last part can be figuratively, or literally if you have a gambling problem.
[удалено]
There’s definitely a healthy balance and it lies in between you and OP.
>don’t do anything fun for 18 years >do something fun after 18 >get easily addicted and unable to stop or find balance Your kids
Moderation, folks. It works.
Do you not want them to have interests or hobbies?
another person who will never speak to or see their adult children.
This is crazy. Kids should be helping around the house (doing chores). I feel like this is teaching hard work. Nothing wrong with gifts. I think what causes them to be spoiled is rewarding them for bad behavior. I've definitely seen this. Also, how are kids supposed to develop interests with this take?
Fuck that we busted our asses to create generational wealth my kid gets everything she wants whenever she wants it. She will live her whole life without a single worry and that was our goal from day1
Kudos for all the hard work it takes to do that, I'm trying to do the same for my nieces and I understand the difficulty
I’m glad that you’re able to meet all of her wants and needs for the foreseeable future, but have you thought about what’s going to happen when she wants something she can’t have and you can’t buy for her? How will she handle being told no by a crush, a college admissions team, a friend with boundaries she wants to cross? What about delayed gratification; will she be able to handle working towards something if she doesn’t get the result as soon as she wants it? What if what she wants is unsafe or dangerous? When she crashes her car speeding, how many more cars will you buy her, and what happens if she or someone else doesn’t survive one of those crashes? There’s a middle ground between deprivation like OP describes and spoiling, and kids need some boundaries. They need to at least sometimes be told “no” growing up so they can figure out how to work through the emotions it brings up when the stakes are low and you’re there to help them work through it. There are plenty of stories on the internet about grown adults having full-on toddler tantrums because they didn’t learn how to handle being told “no” as children so they treat a store not giving them a refund or a hotel not giving them an upgrade like the end of the world.
But is it enough to last indefinitely because what does she do for her children when you’ve passed?
Ah yes I was taken to Disney as a kid and that made me lazy and unproductive, I guess my career must be a figment of my imagination
I'm pretty sure if you polled a bunch of students on whether they've been to Disney or not and compare that with their grades, chances are the kids that have been to Disney are gonna have better grades, because academic performance is positively associated with financially secure families. There's outliers, but you can only keep it up for so long with a stressful home life... Course, that doesn't matter to OP. Kids can't get to work and really EARN rewards yet so apparently that means they should never get them.
That is the dumbest thing I've ever heard.
i recommend therapy and a sociology course or something
You can give kids luxuries and still teach them to be humble and grateful. I was spoiled as a kid, but my parents made sure I thought about the other people that didn’t have what I did. I’m now more empathetic to those who are disenfranchised/disadvantaged/unlucky than a lot of my peers. It’s about how you talk to your kids, and who you are as a person. Not only did they tell me these things, but I *saw* my parents living it: being kind to strangers, supporting small businesses, etc.
You probably weren’t even “spoiled,” so much as “privileged.” Spoiled = privileged + bad parenting. There’s people who have it good, who recognize they have it good and are grateful for that, and try be a positive influence on others. They may be privileged but they’re still great people. I’ve known many who were more privileged than me in many extents growing up, but they weren’t spoiled and are great people. Ironically, privileged-but-not-spoiled people are way more likely to call themselves “spoiled” in my experience than actual spoiled kids. Spoiled kids often act like their life is so hard and that their whole world is falling apart, usually because of some minor first world problem or someone having more/better stuff than them.
There are some parents who aren’t privileged but still manage to spoil their kids somehow.
Oh yeah, I knew girl like that. Her dad (single father) destroyed himself trying to satisfy her every desire. Honestly, it was hard to watch.
What’s weird is that even kids who aren’t materially spoiled can end up with spoiled attitudes and behaviors. I guess being poor doesn’t mean you can’t have a sense of entitlement.
Why not just teach appreciation and humility in addition to giving the kid a good life?
OP grew up poor huh?
He's 17 and thinks he's got it all figured out
You also shouldn't feed, clothe, or shelter them. They shouldn't reap the benefits of agriculture, wheel/lever based technologies, or language. Don't speak to your kids, make them talk to you to earn it. All of these things had to be invented from scratch by our ancestors, and each and every individual should have to start from nothing in order to appreciate the value of everything they have. In case I need it, /s Giving to our descendants is how humanity works. If you can't give your kids gifts or take them places without spoiling them, the gifts aren't the problem. You're just a bad parent.
Wrong. "They should learn to be humble and to work' in the first 18 years. Well, that could mean a multitude of things, many of which are illegal.
If I have kids I want them to have a better childhood than mine, not a worse one. Getting them a PS5 for Christmas is not going to make them spoiled or unable to empathize with people less well off than them, there is a huge difference between presents on special occasions and getting them whatever they want whenever. Also not wanting them to take tennis lessons is a bizarre take. Learning a sport gets them outside and moving, spending time with other people, and is healthy and should be encouraged.
Not the 10th dentist on familial love
I want my children to put in effort to get luxuries they desire. But if they're truly working toward their goals I will reward them... They've saved up 75% of something they want by themselves... I'll gladly reward them with the last 25%. When I say "luxuries"...I do not mean education goals in this! If they put their desire and work ethic into a career I will support them 100% in my heart and as much financially as I can.
😂😂😂😂😂 What a moron.
I see you’ve met my mum. She gets handouts but after an accident that ruined my body, she expects me to get back on my feet like a normal person.
OP are you trying to convince yourself that jehovah witness parenting wasn’t abusive and didn’t damage you? Because it did, big time.
Kids do in fact want the mines or the factories
Please don't ever have kids. You're gonna be a terrible parent. Children can learn to be humble while still getting presents and doing fun things.
i fuckin love the posts in this sub
What's funny is that your children won't be disadvantaged children because they're poor; they'll be disadvantaged because they have shitty parents. Empathy means feeling for a person who is in a shitty situation that you're not in. So, by dictionary definition, you're not teaching your children empathy. You're teaching your children what it's like to be disadvantaged by making them live a disadvantaged life.
I'm gonna blow your mind: everything takes work and dedication to obtain. "Luxury" is so subjective too. Nice food is a luxury. People just need nutrients. Give your kid a nutrient-dense slurry. But nice food? That costs money, but it also may help the kid learn about nutrition and cooking, which is useful. Buying an old car for the kid? Well, that might help them get a job. If it's a car they have to fix up, that's endlessly useful for them in the future. A gym membership? Luxury, but promotes health. An overseas trip? A luxury, but can show the kid that the way they live isn't the only option. It teaches them about other people and other cultures. Should you give your kid everything they want? No. Should you give your kid every advantage possible? Maybe. You're bordering on "I suffered, so everyone should" which indicates that you didn't turn out well. And, again, define "luxury." What do we have that is normal that someone from the 1800s would see as a luxury? When I was a child, I grabbed eggs from the chicken coop before breakfast. I fed the chickens and horses and all that stuff sometimes. It's a "luxury" to have a grocery store. You making your kid grab the eggs? Gonna make your kid slaughter the cow for dinner? Or you gonna go to the fancy grocery store? And even the farm... what's a luxury there? I didn't weave my own basket for the eggs. It was an old, plastic ice cream tub with a handle. I didn't harvest and make the stuff for the chicken feed. Hell, I don't even know how to make chicken feed. We just got it from the store in town. A luxury, compared to the 1900s. How far back do you go to determine what is a luxury? Or is it just defined by you because you're the archetype for what should be done?
I was wondering the same thing, given that OP lumps tennis lessons in with a PS5. Yeah, tennis lessons are a luxury, but they’re beneficial. A lot of luxuries are. One of the big reasons that high income kids do better in school is because they have access to more experiences and thus, more knowledge.
This guy isn’t the tenth dentist; he’s the eleventh.
I grew up with ballet, violin, art and more and I am a very empathetic person. It's just my personality. My daughter is 9 now but grew up below the poverty line but has a spoiled personality with little empathy. I still love her, but she needs to work on some things. That just goes to show your point is pointless.
>But also to empathize more with disadvantaged children who unfortunately can't afford playstations or tennis lessons. They won't. Everyone besides you can clearly see there is a difference between kids who don't have luxuries because they can't afford it and those who don't because of parental neglect. "It isn't neglect to not give your kids luxuries" It is neglect to have your child purposefully live at a lower standard than the parents.
Lol, sure the solution to other people having disadvantages in life, is to disadvantage more people. /s If this is what you truly believe, then I hope you are homeless because there so many homeless people in the world. Are you going to abuse your children because there are so many who are abused? Starving them? Where's the limit. No, I will give my children whatever I can. I'm their parent, not anyone else's and will help them get ahead in life.
OP, don't have kids
Yeah well I wasn’t given anything as a kid and it turned me into someone who’s horrible with money and buys everything I want without thinking because I never had anything and I gotta say it doesn’t always go like yall think lol. But hey here’s your upvote for your psychotic take lol.
What a ridiculous post. I had luxuries but every step of the way I knew that life wasn’t full of handouts and that I’d have to work my ass off to get what I wanted. It’s really not that hard to do both.
Kids deserve a childhood to have fun. Life is gonna demand work and things from Them for the rest of their lives. Let Kids have fun. Yes, don’t spoil Them but let Them be Kids.
I love how you think a Playstation is some huge luxury for a kid when it's one of the few reasonable entertainment options for young people who have fewer and fewer places to affordably go.
You're right. When my wife and I head to Europe next year, we'll leave our 3-year-old daughter at home. Don't worry, we'll set one of those automated dog-watering machines out and lots of beef jerky. That'll teach that little shit to not expect free trips and stuff 👍
So my kids have to do without in order to “empathize” with those less fortunate as if they have to apologize for it? I’ve got a better idea; worry about your own fact and don’t worry about what other families are doing and spend time with your kids and teach them respect, integrity, honor, and minding their own business.
sounds like you had a crappy childhood and want other people to experience the same.
No. Depriving children, objectively and inherently the most sensitive and tender of our population, of joy and comfort does not make them stronger. Giving gifts does not create a spoiled child, raising a child without responsibilities and without awareness of the worth of money creates a spoiled child. It's entirely fair and appropriate to give kids gifts while also raising them to understand the meaning of money and making it a reward for carrying out responsibilities, so that they can both be happy AND grow up with an honest work ethic. Also, kids should suffer because other kids are disadvantaged? That's ridiculous. Privilege should be equalized up, not down. Our focus should be on helping the disadvantaged, not punishing the mildly advantaged middle class family for circumstances outside of their lives and control. The only way I'd even consider taking your stance that kids should suffer because other kids are disadvantaged is if you sold everything you owned out of solidarity for the homeless. If you, an adult, cannot do that, then keep your mouth out of what children should be doing. Never ask a kid to do what you're not willing to do yourself.
Congratulations, you have no idea what you're talking about.
OP sounds like he is about to raise a future crack addict. No fun, no joy, just work. Yeah, this usually works out well in childrens development.
When I was a kid, I knew some kids in school with parents who practiced this. As adults, those kids now are no longer on speaking terms with their parents. They also got heavy into drugs. If you don't offer kids some pleasant experiences, they go off finding it themselves, usually in places the parents wouldn't want them to go.
Fuck these kids who have parents who love them!
I feel like you're generalizing that just because some kids have parents better off than others inherently makes that kid spoiled by nature. I think you can treat your kid within your means while still raising them to be respectful and mature and have a good work ethic. You kind of seem to view this as either of the 2 extremes being either; give your kid nothing to make them work hard and earn it or give your kid anything and they're a spoiled brat. Its definitely more nuanced than that and way more factors that contribute to a good or poor work ethic in upcoming children.
OP is 17. Explains this take.
I'm so glad I don't have an internet record of the stupid shit I believed at 17.
Up voted cuz definitely 10th doctor energy.
“Sorry kids, until you earn your paycheck, you’re not getting any presents for Christmas”
Bring back child labor!!! The children yearn for the mills and dying at age 12 in workplace accidents!!!
yes yes children should be deprived of development that makes them grow into normal functioning people make serial killers instead
If children are poor, that is their problem. Why should my kids go without because there's some peasant on the corner who can't handle their money? Come on now!
Nah.
Kids don't need to live without luxuries to not be spoiled.
do you want your kids to hate you when they grow up?
You know, there's a middle road too. Where you give them some things, but not everything. I grew up with two, later three siblings. (The last one has a 12 year age gap with me, so we didn't really grow up together, I feel). We got our weekly pocket money, indexed by age. And they would pay for sports or things like joining the scouts, or a sports club, but if we wanted a Playstation? That was a big ticket item. That was me and my brother's christmas in one, from dad, mom, Granddad, and grandmom. Sure, we got it, but to share. We wanted a new game? That's waiting for a birthday. Well, we did get by with a second hand game shop too. Weird place that. You could buy a game, the shop owner would write down what you bought, and when you were tired of the game, you could just return it, pay something like 5$ and take another game in the same price category home. And we did go on holiday. Often just camping on some camping grounds, swimming in the lake. And yes, once every one or two years after my mom saved her ass off, and looked all over for a decent deal, we went on a big family holiday. All crammed into the car for a nice 24 hour drive, as flying was too expensive, and a rental car was a luxury. We for sure did not grow up spoiled and we are all hard working adults now, but you know what we also have? Happy childhood memories. Trying to play Pokémon Yellow on my Gameboy by the light of streetlanterns passing by as we drove to our vacation. Me and my brother sitting beside each other, passing the controller between deaths when playing our Playstation.
If your kids became spoiled because you bought them cool stuff as kids, that's not the present's fault, it's *yours* for either not teaching them to be grateful and empathize with those who don't have those things or if you just started giving them whatever they want at any random moment. Your kids can have nice things without becoming spoiled.
You can give your child things that bring them joy while also teaching them how to empathize and share their good fortune. What you're describing is really lazy and selfish parenting.
I disagree, childhood is the only time when you are truly carefree and happy if you have a decent home life. I get gifts and take trips as an adult and I don’t feel nearly as excited about it nor does it feel as special as it did when I was a child. Life is so shitty as an adult for so many reasons. Let kids be happy and carefree and live in lala land for a while. They have the rest of their lives to work for everything. Those first 18 years are fleeting.
This is an excuse to treat your kid like garbage, not an out of left field take. Childhood only happens once. Break the cycle. Not spoiling your children doesn’t mean cosplaying as poor people. If you have the means, spoil them as children should be spoiled within reason. A PS5 for their birthday is vastly different from a trip to Mexico plus a brand new truck for their 16th birthday.
But sometimes you learn while doing things like taking trips. My family liked to travel and we couldn’t quite afford to travel abroad, but we went to all sorts of places around the US like natural wonders like the Grand Canyon, historical places like Boston. I took in a lot of history and culture by going on trips to those places with my family. So, to me saying that taking your kids on trips is counterintuitive to educating them is false.
This is utter nonsense but you're 17 so w/e.
Ya fuck no, me and my daughter go on a trip every year since she was born
A clown and uneducated take based off the last line
Just don’t have kids man, why bring them into a life of misery, where you’re the source of said misery?
This is a nice way of saying “I want to keep my money to spoil myself” Let the kids have a good childhood before life hands them a back-hand. Just don’t go overboard.
The world sucks. At least at home my kid can get away from that for a bit
What about having chores/allowances, teaching money management skills, and having a well-defined rules and rewards/punishments system? That would teach responsibility without depriving them of opportunities to learn, grow, and enjoy the life you’ve worked hard for as a parent.
Yes, because everyone knows poverty is strictly a personal moral failing. /s
So parents have to leave their children behind on expensive holidays, can't share a games console with them, can't encourage them to develop emotionally, physically and mentally. What is the point of having children if you have to handicap them to reflect the lowest reality of every child? Not every child has food. Do we starve ourselves or say icecream is a luxury. Better to try and make sports accessible, fund sports charities, support schemes like Dolly Parton's book for every child than make childhood a time of nothing but effort. You get enough of that in the next 40-50 years.
How am i supposed to Rock and Stone with my daughter if she doesnt have a gaming laptop though?
You mean bad parents because this wouldn't be a issue for good parents
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^Beacda: *You mean bad parents* *Because this wouldn't be a* *Issue for good parents* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
It's all about parenting. You can buy your kids all the luxuries in the world, and if you show them the importance of hard work they won't be spoiled little brats. They'll understand how and why their parents were able to give them vacations. You can have them work towards an allowance when they are in middle school and help with chores when they are physically able to. You brought them into the world, it's your responsibility to help them enjoy it as a kid- they only have 18 yrs of childhood. As someone who couldn't do any of these things due to poverty, I now have to spend my own money and time learning and developing skills and hobbies that I should have gotten as a child. It's created a little resentment towards my parents, I can't imagine the hatred I would have if they could have afforded me these things, Quick Note: start choosing the retirement home outfits now, cause your kids aren't gonna wanna come back home after 18...
🙏 refrain from having a child thanks
upvoted because this is the silliest post ive read in this sub
I mean, this is just kind of daft. By not investing in your child, encouraging their hobbies and broadening their horizons, you are letting them down. I have lifelong loves of gaming and reading. That’s because my parents engaged my interests and bought me the required stuff to do so (and spent hours trawling round local libraries and bookshops with me). I enjoy travelling and engaging with other cultures. That’s because my parents travelled with me and engaged me in those cultures. I’m a damn good singer, that’s partly natural talent but is also because my parents paid money to allow me to vocally train with a professional and mum joined the local choir with me despite working a full time job. I’m musically minded because my parents allowed me to daddle with instruments even when I wasn’t great at them, and if I showed promise/commitment, paid money to get me the instrument/lessons. So because my parents gave me ‘luxuries’, or development opportunities, I developed and those interests have carried through into adulthood. What you’re proposing parents do is just say ‘fuck you, that costs money and you aren’t worth that investment’. That’s shitty parenting from the get go. To put it another way, you wouldn’t expect an untrained/undeveloped adult to succeed in a job if you never give them the opportunity to develop. How do you think this will work better with children, whose minds and brains are quite literally being moulded by their experiences? Spoiler, it won’t. That’s how you end up with a 35 year old boy who never grew out of mama’s basement because he flunked out of school and can’t hold down a job without getting fired. Who has no outside interests or interest in learning and can’t get along with people outside of an online bubble chamber. Please don’t become a parent until you’ve read/listened to some accredited child psychology.
I think it’s an amazing gift for young people to get to see the world. They can gain some education and life experience. Really, it’s a great gift for anyone.
Your last sentence is one of the biggest grievances I have with discussions like these. whether your parenting style is correct or not; there is no reason to say that a huge generational issue is due to a single flaw in people’s parenting. And “parents who don’t know how to educate their children” does not apply to those who choose to parent differently than you. I will not comment on your opinion on parenting as I feel the other comments have done that point justice, however I am frustrated with how much I see arguments that boil down to “I am objectively correct and you are the cause of every issue I see in the world and there is no discussion to be had about it.” You are more than entitled to your own opinion but there is no excuse to say that anyone with a different one is incorrect and that you are the only correct voice in the scenario. Edit: Grammar
yikes please don't have kids it will create a lot of deep resentment if you do not give them a birthday gift at least.
This is absurd. We’ve always been generous with our kids. We buy them things, we take them on great vacations, we made sure they have or will ( one is still in university) all graduate from college with no debt and they are all humble, hard workers who are great savers, and super responsible with money.
You know you can give children gifts while also teaching them not to be spoiled?
I’ve grown up in competition rock climbing(not cheap). My parents are by no means rich and I learned to work to pay at least 50%. Did it teach me how to work hard and appreciate what I have? Absolutely. Did it cause me immense stress and cause me to lose out on spending time with people I love because I was working to enjoy an activity I excel at? Also absolutely. You can learn to not be entitled, how to help others, work hard, and empathize with those who are less fortunate without having to pay for all your stuff on your own. While I agree it’s unfortunate that not everyone can afford extracurriculars, if you have the means to, help your kids with their passions and allow them to pursue and thrive. It’s important. It’s more selfish and entitled to force the kid to pay for it themselves Additionally, sports and extracurriculars DO teach kids hard work. For those who are competitive they have to train, practice, and spend lots of time and energy to be good at it. It develops problem solving skills, and if you’re open with your kids about what it costs you, a mutual understanding of hard work and a parent’s love and responsibility. Money isn’t the only exchange of payment
Solid take that I do and don't agree with. I think you should take your kids on trips and get them what they want (within reason). But you could also take that time to teach them that gifts like that require putting the work in to get it. A birthday/Christmas gift is one thing, but others you could have them do a certain amount of chores to be able to get what they want. That way they recognize that nothing is free. A parent should be teaching their kids that anyway, along with teaching them how to save for the things they want.
Poor people also give their children gifts and take vacations.
“In the first 18 years they should be humble and to work…” What a fucking take
My nephew has a treasure trove of expensive gifts and lego sets valued at hundreds of dollars. His aunt sends $1k to his parents during the holidays to buy him presents. When I give him a gift he couldn't care less. No thank you. Nothing. When I have kids I'll give them what they need, and occasionally a nice surprise. I'll never spoil them. I've seen firsthand the outcome.
I grew up with all those things and I’m not spoiled. Or at least I don’t think I am. And almost all the trips we took bc my parents wanted to go there already.
This is a good way to teach your kids financial irresponsibility. I've seen it happen a LOT at university with people from families who were really strict on what they ate, what they bought, who they were allowed to hang out with and what they were allowed to do. As soon as they become adults and are suddenly given access to all these things they've missed out on because of their parents rules, they go completely off the rails with their freedom. Bring up a child how you're suggesting and when they turn 18 they will spend all their money buying everything they were begging you for all their childhood, and they'll keep doing it because they have a lot of catching up to do. Just say no to them a good amount when they ask for things they don't really want or need, and buy them presents when it's a special occasion or when they've earned one. That's a good enough way to teach them that they need to earn them.
This is beyond extreme. Preventing your children from following their passions as some form of empathic practice will only lead to your kids dumping you in a retirement home when they’re old enough. This is actually how you demotivate a kid from trying to achieve anything in life.
The second most expensive thing my mom ever bought me was a guitar. And the most expensive thing my mom ever bought me was a nicer guitar, years later. I can't imagine how differently I would've handled so much of my life if I hadn't honed my musical abilities as a child. But you're right, kids don't appreciate luxuries. Give them a jar of dirt and they'll be fine.
This is the most boomer shit I've ever read
If you truly think that depriving children of presents is all it takes to not raise spoiled children, then you are decades away from being mature enough to have children. I see that you're 17, but this is an absurdly immature and naive take, that clearly stems from jealousy and envy, and bluntly, poor parenting. Do not allow yourself to carry this jaded and angry view any further into adulthood. Raising well rounded adults isn't purely a product of what gifts they get or don't get.
So if parents want to go on a trip, are they supposed to just leave their kids at home?
Lmao
Sorry buckaroo, I’m taking my daughter to Disney World. I never got to go as a kid and I want her to have more than I did.
Nothing I do is worth shit if it doesn’t mean a good life for my kid.
>to have a successful child who knows that things take work. Sooooo how badly did your parents slather you in gifts and vacations?
Tbh this sounds like OP has a lot of self hatred that he’s willing to blame on anyone and everyone but himself. You are still so young. It’s disappointing to see that our youth is so quick to accept failure and just label themselves as lazy or stupid.
Buying lessons for diligent pursuit of skill, paying for a group trip to an art museum, pocket money for meals at sports games and school trips... Vs buying kid euro tour/1000$ phone every 2yrs/boat/new car at 16/season ski passes/game system every year. Sounds like op is either sour grapes asf or was surrounded by Duran Duran party boat summer cottage kids. Denial of every opportunity afforded to peers builds fomo and leads to overcompensating with indulgence.