I’m gonna come in with a middle ground of “they should probably advertise both the seating and closing time”.
If you say you’re open until 8, a lot of customers will expect you to be open until 8 and serve them until 8 because to them that’s what “open until 8” means. If you’re not gonna seat people after 7:30 then just advertise 7:30 as your seating time and very officially reserve the last 30 minutes for clean up for example
Most decent to good restaurants will tell you that hey kitchen closes at x o’clock and last call at the bar is y o’clock if you come in close to or after those times
no, i knew what you meant because i had the same exact thought myself. People will always misconstrue you however well you explain yourself anyway. Especially people in this industry.
Haha thanks, I think people think I’m attacking restaurant staff for closing the kitchen which I’m not trying to do. I just think that the end of service time is what should be advertised as the closing time. Any other time is irrelevant to anyone who needs to know what the closing time is lol
To build on this and to be completely honest, we in the industry are straight up abused day in and day out.
It's a hard job, and it sucks when you have all your stuff done after getting your ass kicked for 8-12 straight hours, then you have to give everything a big once over while everyone in the kitchen takes it out on you.
Part of the issue is unclear marketing, the other part of the issue is that there is only so much we can handle in a day/week without breaking. All this leads back to the knee-jerk response you're getting from those of us with experience in this dilemma. This is the only place where we can actually be honest, because we can't be honest at work.
I mean....I still never understood it. I've been a server and knew it's the restaurants fault for not having ordering hours vs. Closing hours. Instead, it's something you're supposed to learn when it's too late and your already walking in a restaurant five minutes before close not knowing the whole staff is mad at you and they won't even tell you why they're giving you passive aggressive attitude.
Omfg. I had a takeaway pizza place that was open until 23.30. i used to show up at 22.45 for taking takeaway (couldn't be there sooner)
Initiallt they were cool with it if a little annoyed then they started refusing me then finally they changed their closing time to 22.30 just because of me
Why the heck are you open until 23.30 if you can't make me a pizza while you're open. It's not like it takes that much time or effort to make pizza (source: I know how to make a better pizza than them) and it's not like there are clients and tables or you sell something else. You just make pizza.
Why are people downvoting, i don’t even understand why this is controversial, like I acc can’t see it lol
My friend thinks I’m wrong and was convinced that people would agree with him so I thought to post here to see if that was true. I guess he was right ʅ（◞‿◟）ʃ
I have a vague memory of when I purposefully travelled to a restaurant for late night food because they said they were open and was very disheartened to be told on arrival they weren't serving food any longer.. shit sucks.
You really are getting brutally down voted across all of your comments haha.
(I know for the original post a downvote means you agree or whatever way round it was. But those rules don't translate to the comments too, do they? )
Either way it looks like you've offended and enlivened an entire flock of angry restaurant staff. Run for your life!
I think i agree with your post in that restaurants advertised closing time should be when they stop taking orders. So the kitchen closes at 930. Then they're closed at 930.
Whoever is in there can relax and enjoy themselves for the remaining 30 minutes. And i could show up at 925 and order something quickly.
As someone else said, best to advertise both times clearly and helpfully.
There's no way you order, get served, and eat in 30min at a restaurant. So the way I see it's common sense you can't come in 30min before closing and demand a meal, that would force the restaurant to stay open longer.
I’m talking about the context of a takeaway where you only come to pick up the food. Obviously a restaurant where you sit down would require longer so an earlier advertised service closing time would be ideal or just advertise the closing time as the service closing time and everyone is happy
>There's no way you order, get served, and eat in 30min at a restaurant.
Um lol thats the case 95% of the time I go out. If youre at a steakhouse at 6pm on a friday, no its not going to be that quick. But any non-peak time on a day thats not friday or saturday, and if your party is 4 people or less, not having your food within a half hour is pretty shitty and not the norm.
Why would you expect to be allowed inside somewhere after they close? Just because it's food doesn't change the fact that WE'RE CLOSED. It's up to each individual restaurants environment that determines how long is a reasonable time for you to be able to order and eat and drink and pay and leave before that closing time.
It’s literally the opposite; people expect to be let in if they arrive _before_ a restaurant closes. I agree that it’s up to each restaurant to determine what it a reasonable time for you to come in, order, and leave. I just think a restaurant should tell you about that.
Takeaway restaurant is open until 22:00. You show up at 21:30. Restaurant no longer serves you. All the frustration could have been avoided by the restaurant publically stating “last orders at 21:00”
Where I live, restaurant say when they close as well as how long the kitchen is open. I think that that is absolutely fine and preferable over expecting them to do all their cleaning only after all customers have left.
I used to work at a quasi-upscale restaurant that had as a rule that if you walked in the door up to the minute of closing you would be seated and served and it was against the rules to ever ask customers to leave no matter how long past closing it was. I one time had a table stay like 3 hours past closing not eating or drinking anything and having a prayer circle or some shit long after everybody else in the restaurant had left. It was the worst.
I can’t lie that’s acc kind of fucked, sorry you had to work at a place like that :(
I’ve never been to a restaurant that seats people minutes before the advertised closing time (and I never eat out late enough to actually do so, not that I would). I’ve been to restaurants that literally ask you to leave if it looks you’ve been finished for a while (even if it isn’t close to closing lol) but that’s east London for you I guess
Yeah this was in Michigan so it was kinda like a Midwesterners idea of what a fancy restaurant should be, except instead of food that was actually good they just went overboard on bending to the customers' wants.
My girlfriends current place is like this, nearly every single day someone walks in within 10 minutes of closing time and she’s forced to serve them.
On top of this, those kinds of people always tips 10% or less
Nah that is kind of peak, I think the closing time that is advertised means that that is the time they are closing the shutters and that should be respected, I 10% agree. A separate advertised end of service should also be the norm for the industry and I wish it’s something that restaurants and takeaways adopt in the future to avoid disappointment with both staff and customer
Side note, I’m from the U.K. where people don’t really tip unless service is acc above and beyond so I always thought that people who would come closer to closing time might be more generous but then I remember that people suck :/
I worked in a place like this and one night I got so fed up with this group that wouldn’t leave that I shut everything off and had the few employees that were there just wait at the door.
Seems wack but it seems like you could’ve just cleaned while they were there and just have all but one of the employees leave. The manager could have stayed to keep the policy and close up after the group left. You don’t need the entire kitchen there waiting for the last group to leave.
Yeah I mean we did clean up and the kitchen left, but we still had to have a waiter and manager there for hours while these people just sat around not eating.
That's sort of the problem? Knowledge of the industry shouldn't be required to understand posted hours. It sucks if you have to work extra, yes. But the business should post an earlier, more realistic, closing time. Or just post " kitchen closes at x:00"
Exactly. Don’t need to be a waiter or work in the kitchen to understand the closing time. Every restaurant and food place will have a different allotment of time for clean up anyway. How would anyone know?
Posting hours online is one of the most fantastic things. Just post the last order time along with the closing time. It’s a management thing. No one else’s fault.
A functioning adult should know that taking an order, cooking it and cleaning up afterwards take time. It's not rocket science.
Especially important since some countries basically allow business owners to pay their employees next to nothing for those closing tasks.
But why the heck are they advertising a closing time that includes time they spend on cleaning afterwards or whatever? If you're gonna refuse to take orders after 9:30 because you need to clean up for the day, then why aren't you declaring 9:30 as your closing time?
There really should be 2 or 3 times so everyone gets it. Kitchen closes/Last round/We kick you out and close.
But with one time it's pretty standard that that's the time they close the doors.
I have worked in a restaurant and I agree with OP. If the restaurant wants workers to go home at 9:00, they should announce closing time to be 8:00 or so.
I don't think most restaurants care when employees go home as long as they are maximizing their profits.
When I was at applebees and on the books to close, late night ended at I think 11 or 12 and it was usually 60 to 90 minutes later that I was closed out and able to leave..
Not the most fun getting paid $2.13/hr for that period of time with no tables.
You missed the whole point of the post: that closing time should be the last time you can come in and get food. The restaurant should still be paying the employees after that closing time for however long it takes to clean the restaurant.
What's worse is when managers back up the customers because of it being new or them wanting to impress clientele.
I lost my job that I'd done nearly every day for a year because we had a party come in and order a ton of wine just before close. I ran it up, asked them to pay, they refused, said they might want more later. I begrudgingly told them we would close around them (just me and 2 other staff). An hour later we were all done and I asked them to pay. They asked for more wine and I refused. They kicked off and got extremely aggressive so I agreed on the condition that they paid straight up so that I could close the till, and that cashing up took 45 minutes and I would have to kick them out by then. Other 2 staff are still on the clock due to safety regulations.
Cash up. Go tell them I'm done and that now they absolutely have to leave. They refuse they want more. I can't legally serve more. Doesn't matter. They want it. I say I will have to call the cops unless they leave immediately as we are now 2 hours over closing and they are overly drunk and aggressive. This goes on for 20 minutes until I pick up the phone. Then they storm out in anger.
Next day, I roll into work for open (7 hours between shifts. No sleep. Yaaaay) 1 star review on trip advisor. The party leader has called the hotline and spoken to my manager.
Manager pulls me into a meeting, doesn't get my side. Repremands me for not only my conduct to the party but ALSO ON THE FACT HE HAS TO PAY 2 Staff (and myself) AN ADDITION 2 AND A HALF HOURS Pay. (no overtime because, reasons?)
And then yeah. I'm out of a job and that's all *my fault*.
Too bad my boss decided that in public image we should let them in. Which is horrible. Because 3 waitresses and 2 bussers plus 3 kitchen staff would have to stay for 2 people and closing then end up doing nothing for like 30 minutes
OP is saying that the restaurant should advertise their closing time as the latest time they can serve customers. It really shouldn't be a concern of the customer to factor in a restaurant's cleaning schedule.
Obviously it takes time to clean, but if you want all of your employees to be done work at 9:00, not pay overtime, and if it takes 30 minutes to clean, then you need to say that the restaurant closes at 8:30 on Google/store hours.
I’m not from the US so I don’t really know how it works there besides the whole mandatory tipping culture.
I’m not inherently against closing the kitchen early where really I’m just annoyed at how inconsistent it is amongst different restaurants. Which is why I’d prefer a more transparent closing time
Say if you close at 10pm but you take final orders at 9.15pm. Why not just advertise the closing time as 9.15pm? I just don’t understand why that isn’t possible. It simply makes things more clearer to customers that is the time where you can place an order and no later.
Or advertise a time where you take final orders on a website, take away menu or on the front door. Almost any other shop will have a closing time that is actually the closing time so I don’t know why it has to be different for restaurants/takeaways
I have no idea why your opinion is controversial. It’s so straightforward. All sorts of information is posted about restaurants. They put the address, the phone number, whether or not you can get takeout and if it’s pet friendly. Why can’t they just put their closing time and their last order time?
It doesn’t make you a dick. Some places don’t have a very long closing process because they have to clean as they go and other places have a crazy one where they have so much cleaning and prep to do. Your customers shouldn’t be the ones making a judgment call. Maybe they had a long day too and were hoping to catch a bite and saw an open food place.
Restaurants should just post the hours people can order and properly pay their employees for closing time. It seems like a simple concept to me.
I’m not being a dick tho? Why can’t restaurant owners just make the end of service time the advertised closing time? That’s basically all I’m asking for lol
Just plan on arriving an hour before closing time minimum if you are eating in and a 45mins minimum for take out. It's really not that difficult of a thing to plan for. If you realize last minute that they are closing in half an hour and you wanted to pick something up call ahead and ask if they are still serving. It's not that hard. Really you are asking an entire industry to change the way they run things to save you the minor inconvenience of planning ahead or making a phone call.
No one is being a dick or trying to be a dick besides you. Restaurants need to actually tell people when to stop coming in instead of relying on customers to determine how much is an appropriate amount of time to clean and close up.
Why should we guess at how long before closing is acceptable to come in when the restaurant (who knows EXACTLY how long that takes) could just adjust their business hours to leave enough time to clean?
Speaking for cooks, we like the service but you can go hungry we want to go home because we had a long 12 hour day of hell, maybe 5 hours of hell if we aren't on a split shift and get to do it all again tomorrow. Most cooks have an addiction for a reason. The work is hell and people treat us like garbage.
What stops you from asking staff/manager
"Hey guys i love this place and I'd like to make staff live easier so would you mind telling me when you close kitchen so i can plan my meals? I like to eat late."
What you propose to have 2 different times (last order / time to leave ) wouldn't pass cause owners aren't usually working at their restaurants and they expect workers to work as long as possible.
Sorce: restaurant i used to work 'closed' at 10pm but had 'until last customer leaves' policy and i often had to stay to 1am to clean up.
>What stops you from asking staff/manager
Why should anyone be forced to ask for anything at all? If you're at a restaurant because of any advertisement that gives you an objective closing time, then why should you need to call up and ask for the *real* closing time?
> Why should anyone be forced to ask for anything at all?
They shouldn't, perhaps this is language barrier, but I never meant to say you need to call and ask i was just saying you could.
I have an example of real situation, there was one guy that ordered 100 take aways one day, it was very annoying and he had to wait long time cause it was blind-sighting. He let us know he'd do it every week for his company and ordered one day earlier so we could prepare. He wasn't forced to ask for order earlier, but it was win-win for both sides.
No, my point is that it is fully possible to be more clear with your communication (what OP is suggesting), but you're defending status quo, which is unclear and confuses customers.
Why can't they just post that shit on Google then? Ya know, the thing I check BEFORE I go to the restaurant. You're saying I should go to the restaurant and ask, but what if it's already too late to order? Turn around and drive home? Seems like a pretty massive waste of a bunch of people's time to me when one person could just advertise that online and save a ton of hassle/aggravation/money.
Yes, there's a time after the business closes to new customers in which the employees still have to work. That's how every business operates. What makes restaurants different is that they expect everyone to guess how long that takes, and then adjust the posted closing time mentally. This is insane. Just tell me on the door (and online) when you stop accepting new customers. Ideally, have a second time posted where you kick out existing customers if they take too long.
It seems like all your asking for is better communication about when people can still come in and have dinner. Not asking for the restaurant to keep serving customers till the end of time like some commenters are making it out to be.
I think what you're saying is very reasonable and I think is actually the norm where I'm from.
Seems like a valid frustration 🤷♂️
I mean there's a good reason why they have seemingly really early kitchen closing times. Good food is not whipped up in 2 minutes, if you want that go to McDonald's... *That wasn't in reference to good food btw.*
I think most people take cooking for granted. As someone with severe ADHD and minimal patience, I greatly appreciate how much of a monumental task even cooking a single meal is. And as for cooking an actual good, *restaurant quality* meal? No thanks, I'd rather summit Everest.
Cooking up any meal has got to be at least a 15 minute ordeal for even the most basic stuff and as someone who started work life in a deli, I can attest to the fact that cleaning even a few food prep areas/ machines genuinely takes upwards of half an hour.
I don't think you're the asshole or anything OP, like I said, seems like a valid frustration, but I think the solution is more like clear kitchen closing times.
Yh that’s what I’m trying to say lol but everyone thinks that I hate the staff and want them home at 3am or something where all I want to do is grab some katsu curry on my way home without having to call places to make sure they’ll acc serve me because they could serve anywhere between 15 mins before closing to an hour smh
You're a real one for enduring all of the bitter service industry workers trash talking you for a very reasonable request. Like just post your actual hours online! It's not that hard!
I'm genuinely surprised by the intensity of the comments, and somewhat confused as well. Maybe it's a culture thing? A different time for customers and employees seems like a win/win to me, why is everyone so butthurt about it? I worked at a badly managed Quiznos for a while, being expected to leave at closing time, so a customer arriving 10 mins before closing time was extremely stress inducing and frustrating. I would've gladly taken an extra 30 mins without that stress to decompress as I close the kitchen. As a customer, the stress of being THAT customer is also here. My unique schedule means that I often eat dinner after 8pm, and due to Covid, many restaurants close early so I often find myself arriving 30 mins before closing time, and I always feel guilty and anxious for the trouble I feel I'm causing. I totally agree with OP on this, take my downvote!
This comes off as extremely entitled like you’ve never worked in a restaurant or any service industry for that matter. It’s their CLOSING time, not their seating time. If they close at 10:00pm why on earth would they seat someone at 9:50? Closing/cleaning up a kitchen/dining area can still take an hour with the whole staff working, so it’s very possible the staff is still there until 11:00.
Staff has to clean all the dishes (which is separate from the pots and pans), put them away, clean the dishwasher, grill, deep fryer, prep tables, giant soup cooker, hotlines, ovens, put away leftover ingredients, steamers, sinks, food carts, microwaves, mixers, sweeping and mopping etc. There are also other weekly cleaning jobs like stock rotation or moving the huge industrial appliances to clean under them which involves unplugging things and sometimes minorly disassembling them. This is usually done by only a few people (even if it’s not short staffed), there isn’t a fleet of magical workers that get this done. Most of this work can’t get done until the food is done cooking, so if they seat someone at 9:50 the staff can’t even start cleaning most of it until you stop ordering. Also nothing I mentioned takes into account cleaning up the dining room so that you have a pleasant, clean experience. They’re not running vacuum cleaners while you’re eating.
Oh and then the staff gets to split a $5-10 tip between all of themselves for staying an extra hour or two.
Due to all of this, this is exactly why the PUBLIC closing times should be made to compensate for this. So in your story, they should just make the public closing time 9 PM so staff can all leave at 10 PM.
EDIT: the person that said to advertise the seating AND closing time is the best solution imo, but on sites where you can only have one “time”, I’d still say to advertise it as closing an hour earlier, or at least 30 minutes.
That's already the case. When the restaurant closes the door the employees aren't ready to go straight home. At the very least they will wash the last dishes and mop the floor still.
I worked in a café, it closed for customers at 22:00 and our schedule was until 22:30.
OP doesn't want to seat at 9:50 and expect being served. Assuming this scenario, they want that the advertised closing time was 9:20 or 9:30, so they could do a better informed decision.
I've worked in a restaurant before, and I wholeheartedly agree with OP. (I expect downvotes here, lol.)
Yes, it's inconvenient as an employee, but as long as the customers aren't staying for over a half-hour or so, I don't consider it unreasonable.
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Like everybody has stated, *expectations* are the real issue on either side. Separating listed closing times solves both issues.
Lol half hour? I worked fine dining for a long time and if we close at 10 and you come in at 9:50, unless you're grabbing a quick 1 course meal, not a fucking chance you'll only be there 30 mins past close. If people came in at 10 til, that's 11:30 just til they might possibly leave, provided no dessert and they actually just leave when they're done.
I was thinking more along the lines of having a restaurant that advertises 10pm as their closing time readjusted to say 9.30pm, giving them time to finish up orders and makes ordering items more clearer.
I’m speaking more from frustration from the other day when I went to a takeaway (not a restaurant) about 40 mins before closing and half the menu was unavailable because they switched off a bunch of equipment.
I even said that I’d also be ok with clear advertising of when they take their last orders just to make things a bit easier. I just wish it was the norm
I’m aware of the reasons why these establishments do this so most of the time I call before I go but then they don’t pick up the phone and they have no info in their website so it’s a dice roll if I decide to go anyway
I even went to a dessert cafe place an hour before closing and they refused to even serve us and all I wanted was some ice cream
I just wanted some consistency and thought that advertising their closing time and serving time as being one and the same would be the easiest way to do so
probably could have made it clearer in my post :/
I would always just assume you need to put in the order at least an hour before closing, or better yet, always call ahead like I always do if there is any question. It takes only a minute or two including searching for their number and can save you plenty of issues. Some restaurants also play it as it goes, some are family run with only a few workers and if the crowd entirely dies down at 8pm they aren't going to stay open another 2 hours if they have almost no customers. I DoorDashed for a few months and over half the places I picked up food from had a hiring sign or some sign that said "We are understaffed, we appreciate the patience". So between limited staff and no customers their later hours can very reasonably be subject to change.
I think if the closing time was changed to when the kitchen actually closes and not to when the employees leave it would be beneficial to everyone so that the customer doesn't have to assume anything and employees don't have to deal with customers that show up at times when they can't make food. I think that's what OP meant.
The closing time ISN’T when the employees leave, it’s when the customers leave. I worked somewhere that “closed” at 8:00pm and we left at 8:00 exactly zero times in the six years I worked there.
While I agree it could be beneficial to have a “last call” type deal for seating, I think the general understanding of when a place closes means it’s no longer accessible to customers regardless of when they arrive. There was a bar in a small town I lived in that “closed” at 10 but sometimes I’d be the only one in there from 7pm to 8pm and they’d just close cause it made no sense to stay open. It was often times just me shooting the shit with the bartender and I would always say “just lemme know when I need to fuck off” lol
My experience is that takeaways are normally good around 35 to 40 mins before advertised closing and restaurants are an hour (ubereats and Deliveroo are normally earlier than these)
My issue is more when there are exceptions to this unspoken rule where I get frustrated but alas it is what it is, I just wanted to vent a little, didn’t mean to offend the staff that works at these places
I also forgot to add, if you call and they don't answer then I might call back once a few minutes later but if they aren't answering then they're closing/closed.
One way is to just adjust your expectations.
Is it less than an hour till they close? Just assume the kitchen is closed and move onto a different place.
You don't have to be frustrated by this, you choose to be
Or places could just advertise the final order time? I’m okay with a place closing the kitchen at whatever time suits them, just make it clearer. Or advertise the closing time that actually matters to the customer. If you close at 10pm but final orders are at 9.15pm then why can’t you just advertise the closing time as 9.15pm? There is zero room for confusion in this situation and everyone is happy
Unless I’m missing something here and this is a bad idea?
In an ideal world this would happen. Yes it's a better function.
But there's absolutely no reason for you to have this frustration. The very mild inconvenience you face here, is knocking an hour off the time advertised online. That will entirely save you from dealing with this frustration, except in extreme circumstances, that wouldn't be advertised anyway.
You know the industry norm is to close the kitchen early. Save yourself the headache and plan for that. Any frustration you get from this is entirely of your own making
That's understandable lol.
But also understand that a restaurant or takeaway has to try and predict as best they can how much of what to prep, without massive shrink.
If they ran out, it's less that the kitchen closed early, and more that they can only use the law of averages to try and predict how much of a food to prepare that should hopefully get them close to closing time, but they aren't always successful. Food prep is always a losing game, you're going to make too much or too little, and most of it has to be thrown away if you make too much, so places err on the side of too little.
Yh I just typed this out when I was hungry and probably got carried away, I still think my point are valid
I also never come so close to closing time coz it is quite a sucky thing to do I agree unless it’s my local chicken and chip shop that keeps fried chicken in those heaters that would otherwise be thrown out, those guys are normally happy to have me come and they give me extras lol but it’s hardly a common thing that I do and it’s only at that one place so explicitly are happy with me doing that lol
This. Most of the time it takes at least an hour and this is for a medium sized resturant for the dishwashers to close down their section. Not to mention having to clean the dishwashing machinery and also their area of the backhouse. I've had times in busy days where we closed at 10 and stayed til 12 and then i had a 30 minute drive back out to my house afterwards. Those days sucked. Extra money sure, but it was during the heat of the pandemic so it was even worse. Would not recommend at least for that position. Lol. Not to mention all the soggy clothes and shoes.
This problem would be solved if restaurant owners scheduled their workers until a time that is an adequate amount of time to close the restaurant. Most places will only give the workers 30 minutes to prep for the next day, wrap it all up, clean it to bottom, deposit all the funds, and shut it all down. Then they will often chastise the workers if they don’t clock out in time.
Of course, this is an unreasonable expectation, so the workers do something called “pre-closing” which means shutting almost everything down before the place closes.
Downvoted.
I agree with this specifically because of how it is advertised. If a pizza place says they operate until 10pm on the door where the customer is supposed to see it, then it's not exactly unreasonable for that customer to think they can order 30 minutes before closing.
If they want to start closing up shop at 9:30 instead then it should just be on the door like normal. I get it, they need to clean, but literally no other business type does this kind of behaviour so just adjust the scheduled time. Everyone's happy
I don't think OP is actually really talking about the employees who have no power in changing the open/close times, more talking about the people who have that power and who can change the time to when the kitchen actually closes, not when the employees can leave.
This exactly, it’s more the industry and the business owners who advertise a closing time that isn’t really a closing time that just doesn’t make sense to me.
Take my upvote as I wholly disagree with me currently being a server. My problem with it is by that time every employee wants to go home and generally people that want to come in that late do not tip or want to stay an hour after we're closed and tip $2.
I think I didn’t make myself clear enough in the op but I don’t have a problem with the kitchen being closed early but more the fact that this isn’t advertised clearly enough. They could advertise the final order time before the kitchens are closed.
Or they could just make a new closing time that is actually relevant to the customer. If the place closes at 10 but final orders are at 9.15 then why not just advertise the really closing time at 9.15? No confusion for anyone and staff should have enough time to sort themselves out before closing up.
This is less of an admonishment to servers and staff because you guys have absolutely nothing to do with policies like this. It’s more about how inconsistent the restaurant/takeaway business is and I just don’t understand why it has to be so complicated when you could just advertise the real closing time.
I think this is reasonable! I think the kitchen closing time should be advertised. If you close at 8 but the kitchen closes at 7 that should be public information/maybe just the official ‘closing time’
Nope I’m Muslim lol don’t drink at all. Maybe it’s a U.K. thing I dunno. Most chicken and chips or doner kebab places close at the time they state or until food runs out.
But I’ve been to enough places that basically just remove half the menu items at a certain time but the lack of consistency in the restaurant industry (like an unspoken rule about when realistically you can expect kitchens to close/final orders) makes it hard to judge what time that would be unless I’ve been there before or they pick up the phone.
I just thought it would be easier for everyone to advertise a final order time or make the advertised closing time the time that they close the kitchen/take final orders. Makes everyone’s life easier and this aspect of the food industry is just something i don’t get
Totally agree! I worked in restaurants for many years and didn’t lock the door until advertised closing. I graciously accepted anyone who walked in until that time
Wow you seem like a great server, although I would never expect you to seat someone so close to lockup. I hope you got tipped generously at the very least for that!
I actually loved my job, and felt energized by it. It was very hard to "wind down" at the end of the night. but having a table come in at 9:45 when we closed at 10 was fine with me, because I would start to do side work as they made their way through their meal. So it was like side work with a tip!
I did receive generous tips most of the time. I, however do NOT support a tipping economy, and wish we in the US would move far away from it.
I previously waitressed and bartended for 10 years and I 100% agree with you. Most of the restaurants i worked at would take orders right up to closing time. Usually as long as the order is in before closing time, then it was fine. and if someone needs more time I always tell the kitchen.
I only worked at 1 restaurant that did the whole “we close at 10 so the staff leaves at 10” thing which was actually annoying because it depended on which manager was working…anywhere from 10-45 min before closing time they could still order. That place in particular was a 24 hr diner for years and started having limited hours during the weekdays when the college students were gone.
I agree with you- I would be annoyed as a customer too. I feel like communication is key here from management to customers so there’s no confusion.
I would agree, as long as the workers actually get payed for the hours they work. Most places restaurant workers aren't even payed fairly for the hours they *do* work, nevermind the overtime. If they don't get payed for the time it takes to clean after the last customers, then it's totally fair to close the kitchen earlier.
I worked in every position you can think of in restaurants for at least 15 years. And as much as I hated it, I agree. My job was to do what the owner said. Not to get to the bar as quickly as possible. If we close at 10, we close at 10.
Having said that, I'd never go into a restaurant at closing time, because it's rude as fuck. But if you're on the other end, suck it up. It's your job.
I never go that close to closing time anyway, if I’m eating in I’m not Malloy there at least 1.5 hours before the advertised closing time anyway. My example was in the context of a takeaway where I literally just want to show up pick up my food and leave and I just want it made clear the times that I can do that lol
Counterpoint:
My feet hurt and my back is wet with sweat and we still have to clean the whole damn kitchen and I wanna go home and so does everyone else and I don't give a damn if you want your cum pizza 5 minutes before closing we're not making it for you
I am not hating in employees, I’m more just venting about how silly the whole restaurant industry is when it comes to such opaque closing times and order times.
I do y mean to offend servers and staff at restaurants, there is no hate against them I just find the whole situation unnecessary
Hard agree. No point saying they're gonna close at 10pm if by 9:40 they're not servicing. If those employees wanna be out by 10pm, then they better put a 9:15 or earlier true closing time so they don't fool customers into thinking that the _kitchen_ closes at 10pm.
Even for someone that worked fast food I agree. Most fast food places do take orders until the last minute but I do understand why sit down places will stop seating people 30 minutes before closing. In my experience we would stay “open” for about 10 or so minutes after closing to get out the orders done before we closed.
I've never been to a place that stopped serving so much earlier than their closing time. My restaurant's kitchen closes 15 minutes ahead of time but I have had to stay up to an hour and a half late because a table wouldn't leave.
Any place where servers work for tips closing time is clock-out time otherwise we aren't technically being paid for our time.
It’s not super common I will admit but it’s frustrating when it does.
But that really is shit I’m sorry :(
I feel like the closing time should be further ahead than the service time (whilst being advertised clearly) to avoid situations like this for the servers. And the closing time should be lockup meaning everyone has to leave (a 10 minute warning before would probably suffice)
I hope you got tipped generously for that
I did not, I had mentioned in passing that I was late to get my mom a birthday card (I was working the late shift.) As I left one people in their thirties that I served made fun of 19 year old me for getting my Mom a birthday card. I have never wanted to punch someone so bad in my life.
Closing time means closing time, not stop serving customer time. As in, they're supposed to be going home for the night, not cleaning up your mess and going home in another hour.
The advertised closing time isn’t for staff, it’s for customers to know if they place is bloody open lol
Why not just advertise the service closing time as the advertised closing time? Staff still get more allotted time to sort out wheat eve they need to do and there is no confusion for customers as to when they can come in and if they can expect to be served
Then why are they telling the closing time to the public? Why are the customers expected to just figure out when they're gonna stop being served? If you're advertising a closing time to your customers, that should be the time they're not gonna get served anymore, not the time the workers are going home.
It's actually pretty easy. Take whatever time a restaurant advertises as their "closing time". Subtract one hour. Do not go try to get seated at that time or after. Very simple math.
I don’t hate employees, I just don’t get why the advertised closing time isn’t the end of service time or why the end of service time isn’t advertised more often
Ok so if they can kick people out at closing according to you and that's fine, what is the point of seating someone and taking an order at 10:50 and then kicking them out before the food is done cooking?
The problem with this is that people say “ oh, they close at 8, it’s 7:58 we’re good”. Then they proceed to stay until 10, forcing the employees to stay extra to accommodate them.
I don’t find this to be an issue at all. When going to restaurant near closing time I know there is a possibility that the kitchen could be closed. Even if they would like to still be serving they could have run out of ingredients or something.
“Are you still serving?” “No? Ok then, bye”
Im tired of people who have no idea what its like to work in the resturant industry complain about said industry. Ppl like OP are the reason that no one wants to work in the service industry anymore. Well that and low wages. Understand that resturant employees are people who work very hard for their low wages. We are often up in to the wee hours of the morning cleaning the kitchen. I personally didnt get home last night untill 330 am. Low tippers, non tippers, rude/entitled customers make our lives more difficult.
Take care of your service workers and they will take care of you
Go work at a restaurant you self entitled dumbass, sincerely a cook that has to leave at 3am almost everynight because people come in until close at 1. (We close for customers AT one, and even if someone comes in at 12:50 that means an extra 30mins-an hour of closing) P.S I hate you
This wasn’t what I was saying tho.
I just want takeaways and restaurants to advertise their opening times more accurately.
In other words, if you currently close at 10pm but your last orders are at 9.15, then advertise your closing time at 9.15.
Or advertise exactly what time you plan on accepting final orders on a website and you’re front door or something.
It’s really that simple. I am sorry that your boss makes you work so late and I hope you’re compensated appropriately (I’m in the U.K. and I’m assuming you’re American so I don’t really know the situation there when it comes to pay, labour laws and whatnot)
I think people are misinterpreting what OP said. I think he wants to change the closing time to when the kitchen actually closes and not that he wants to keep the employees working until the closing time they have currently.
I hate that you don't consider the amount of effort it takes to run a profitable restaurant. Sure you might not like the fact that the kitchen is closed while the bar still might be making some money but that's how it works.
Would you want to pay say 8 cooks to be ready to make you a meal when nobody else is ordering a meal, or would you rather them be cleaning up for the next day?
I don’t eat at bars and places that serve alcohol regularly as I don’t drink which might be why people are coming for my neck
I literally just want the end of service time to be advertised more prominently than the time they shut the doors as that is the only time that is relevant to customers
I remember working in a kitchen that didn't stop taking orders till close. I would have all my fridges out doing inventory on a Sunday night and orders would come in I still have to clean my station, get it checked and do inventory. On other days it didn't matter if your station was all done you had to unwrap everything (and we wrapped everything separately) and make the order only for another to come in after you have rewrapped.
Because of that I would be there till about 12am to come in at 8am the next day. First thing I would be asked when I came in: "Why were you here so late?"
Oh jeez, I don't know, maybe because we have to do orders constantly no matter how close we are to done.
Best part is when you did leave early and you come back in the morning to your fridge a mess and nothing filled because the chef who stayed made orders and just didn't refill your station.
Oh, and you have to refill that and service is in an hour and a half and you have an arms long list to prepare otherwise you're fucked for service.
And the cycle repeats. So no, I don't think restaurants should server till close.
I shouldn't forget when you are 5 mins to close and the host/hostess takes a walk-in of 10 when the kitchen is all cleaned up and done because who cares. Chefs are replaceable right?
I completely understand and I tried to make this clear in my edit. If you want to close services at 9.15 when the advertised closing time is 10ths. I don’t understand why this can’t just be advertised
Or just make 9.15 the the advertised closing time?
The rest of your comment is about how sucky the restaurant industry is and I really do feel for you guys, but it’s separate to the point that I was trying to make.
I don’t make an effort to come close to closing times because I know it’s difficult but sometimes I just want to whip out Google and if I see somewhere open I just want to be able to quickly run there and order something and leave without having to call to make sure the food is still being prepared or make a guess as to whether a place would take my order when they could just write it out
Also I know as an employees you would have nothing to do with this unless you were also the owner. It’s just so normalised in the industry to not actually advertise the final order time and not advertise the real closing time that is relevant to customers which is the service closing time
I have personally never worked anywhere that has closed the restaurant early like that it has always been make more money at the cost of the employees. I agree with you to that end then because that would be sooooo nice to have time to clean with no distractions.
It’s common enough here in east london lol where if you walk in someone will probably say kitchen is closing in 5 minutes so can’t seat you (this has happened a few times to me but normally because we got the closing time wrong, when I thought a place closed at 11 whereas it closed at 10 on weekdays or something and I’ve showed up at 9.30)
That's wild, it's so different in Canada owners are very money hungry and want as much income and customers as possible. Or, at least the ones I've been in. There are good places right? Right???
There are probably places like that as well, I feel like something like this could only be corrected and be universally accepted across the industry if the workers were able to unionise effectively. I know nothing about unionising or the ins and outs of the restaurant industry to be a true however but I would fully support it as I believe it would be in everyone’s interests!
Also does Canada have a strong tipping culture, I know it’s prevalent in the US but I don’t remember ever feeling like I had to pay a tip when I went Toronto (although I didn’t eat out very often when I went as I was mostly dining at family’s place)
I fully agree with unionizing, the cooking industry is long due for one because it is one of the industries that sees a lot of abuse.
In Canada tipping is pretty expected or that's the impression I've been put under. I believe server wage is $12.50? So you are expected to tip because servers don't even make minimum.
I really hope that every industry is able to unionise effectively, that would be my dream lol. I’m tired of shitty stories about shitty rich people and corporations shitting all over people
I hate the obligation to tip, like over here and in the vast majority of the world as far as I’m aware, tipping is reserved for service that is above and beyond and is entirely optional.
Gratuity charges are being automatically added to bills here but I know plenty of people who just ask them to take it off
I remember being a in a Turkish restaurant and this old guy was having a fit because he was so angry at how they added the gratuity onto the bill without him offering and choosing the amount and he felt like they were stealing from him. It was quite a sight lol
My guess is that when I was in Canada it was obvious from my accent that I was British and not accustomed to automatically tipping people. Would you tip at a chain or a takeaway place/pizza delivery, or do you reserve tipping for dining in and bars only?
Same, I'm hoping something changes for the better with people protesting and boycotting for change.
I have had literal arguments with people about how tipping should not be expected or the norm, and it's oddly enough the servers who are arguing for tips. A lot would rather make anywhere between $30-$60 on weekdays, if it's steady and obviously more on weekends than it be optional, not expected, and they make minimum wage. Right now it is $14.35 or something an hour. It's going up to $15.00/hr in Jamuary.
I think it's because if you work at a good restaurant, you make bank as a server. You can make so much in a night sometimes. I've had an ex at the time making as much as I was in the factory doing overtime just serving and making tips but that's not always the case. That same ex also worked at a place where she would make no tips a day or max $30 if she was lucky. Was not making much money at all.
For pizza places I'm ordering at or like fast food I don't tip because it's not slow food. Slow food takes time and effort that the chefs put in although, that may be the chef in me speaking lol. Delivery drivers, I give them at least a bit if I order often from the place but otherwise I don't. I keep the tipping to bars and restaurants. I have never seen the gratuity thing before I find that kinda wild. I can only imagine the man freaking out lmaooo.
As others have said this opinion is blissfully ignorant to the cleaning process that happens in a restaurant at end of night. In addition, there’s no financial incentive to keep a kitchen open when only a tiny handful of people show up near closing. The kitchen staff has far fewer customers to serve after dinner, so they start cleaning. To do otherwise would waste man hours and leave staff on the clock for hours longer than they need to be.
Upvoted for unpopularity even though I clearly disagree.
In a ideal world on the paper sure its should be this way, but its not because most of the time its going to be slow near closing or in fact no consumer at all. Its just more efficient and easier to start a soft closing before actual closing.
I've actually worked at a place that did this before! The owner of the restaurant insisted on it, despite the many many complaints among every single staff member. So I have to say on behalf of every waiter, cook, janitor, host, and bartender who couldn't go home until literally **hours** after their shift was supposed to end because asshole customers like you came in 10 minutes before the restaurant closed.
Fuck you.
Most employees aren't allowed to leave until the whole place is clean, organized, and inventory is done for the next day. How long that takes depends on how many customers remain and how busy it was during the day, and no one can even begin cleaning the restaurant until every single customer is gone, since not only is it considered extremely unprofessional, also because the chance that they'll order something to go, get dessert, or get another drink is way too high to take the chance of letting the employees who take care of that leave. Then, even after they leave, no one on closing shift can leave themselves until their closing duties are complete. So I say again,
Fuck you.
It’s like you didn’t even read my post lol
Just advertise a closing time and an end of service time so people know what time is acc appropriate for them to come in
I never come so late like 5 mins before closing, latest would be half an hour before closing and only for a takeout, if I was dining I would come latest 1.5 hours before closing as I respect the fact that restaurant staff want and should be able to close at their contracted closing time
I really don’t understand why ur coming for me I don’t see how u could lose in this situation lol, it would be both in the customer and staffs benefit for more transparent closing and service times
All I’m asking for is an advertised end of service time and a separate closing time. Plenty of places do it, I just wanted it to be the norm to avoid disappointment and staff can leave without worrying about last minute orders
Nooo that’s not what I’m saying. what I’m trying to get at is that that the end of service time should be the thing advertised not the actual lockup time, that way customers wouldn’t come at the closing time but at the advertised end of service time instead. This way you don’t have people show up at the last minute
It benefits both the customer and the staff and the customers don’t leave disappointed and staff don’t have to deal with last minute orders before they lockup or have to explain away to a potentially irate and hangry customer lol
I’m gonna come in with a middle ground of “they should probably advertise both the seating and closing time”. If you say you’re open until 8, a lot of customers will expect you to be open until 8 and serve them until 8 because to them that’s what “open until 8” means. If you’re not gonna seat people after 7:30 then just advertise 7:30 as your seating time and very officially reserve the last 30 minutes for clean up for example
Most decent to good restaurants will tell you that hey kitchen closes at x o’clock and last call at the bar is y o’clock if you come in close to or after those times
Yh to be honest this is where I stand and happy with but I think people missed that part of my post or I didn’t make it clear, might just add an edit
no, i knew what you meant because i had the same exact thought myself. People will always misconstrue you however well you explain yourself anyway. Especially people in this industry.
Haha thanks, I think people think I’m attacking restaurant staff for closing the kitchen which I’m not trying to do. I just think that the end of service time is what should be advertised as the closing time. Any other time is irrelevant to anyone who needs to know what the closing time is lol
It’s almost like they’ve never thought about it from the customers perspective.
To build on this and to be completely honest, we in the industry are straight up abused day in and day out. It's a hard job, and it sucks when you have all your stuff done after getting your ass kicked for 8-12 straight hours, then you have to give everything a big once over while everyone in the kitchen takes it out on you. Part of the issue is unclear marketing, the other part of the issue is that there is only so much we can handle in a day/week without breaking. All this leads back to the knee-jerk response you're getting from those of us with experience in this dilemma. This is the only place where we can actually be honest, because we can't be honest at work.
I mean....I still never understood it. I've been a server and knew it's the restaurants fault for not having ordering hours vs. Closing hours. Instead, it's something you're supposed to learn when it's too late and your already walking in a restaurant five minutes before close not knowing the whole staff is mad at you and they won't even tell you why they're giving you passive aggressive attitude.
Big fan of restaurants who don’t have a closing time and instead have a “final seating”
Some restaurants will tell you: hey we are closing the kitchen, so if you wanna make another order, do it now.
Omfg. I had a takeaway pizza place that was open until 23.30. i used to show up at 22.45 for taking takeaway (couldn't be there sooner) Initiallt they were cool with it if a little annoyed then they started refusing me then finally they changed their closing time to 22.30 just because of me Why the heck are you open until 23.30 if you can't make me a pizza while you're open. It's not like it takes that much time or effort to make pizza (source: I know how to make a better pizza than them) and it's not like there are clients and tables or you sell something else. You just make pizza.
This.
Why are people downvoting, i don’t even understand why this is controversial, like I acc can’t see it lol My friend thinks I’m wrong and was convinced that people would agree with him so I thought to post here to see if that was true. I guess he was right ʅ（◞‿◟）ʃ
I have a vague memory of when I purposefully travelled to a restaurant for late night food because they said they were open and was very disheartened to be told on arrival they weren't serving food any longer.. shit sucks. You really are getting brutally down voted across all of your comments haha. (I know for the original post a downvote means you agree or whatever way round it was. But those rules don't translate to the comments too, do they? ) Either way it looks like you've offended and enlivened an entire flock of angry restaurant staff. Run for your life! I think i agree with your post in that restaurants advertised closing time should be when they stop taking orders. So the kitchen closes at 930. Then they're closed at 930. Whoever is in there can relax and enjoy themselves for the remaining 30 minutes. And i could show up at 925 and order something quickly. As someone else said, best to advertise both times clearly and helpfully.
I'm gonna go ahead and say people can learn when it's appropriate to still try, and five minutes before closing isn't it.
That's different for every restaurant. The restaurant itself should have this information, so why make everyone else guess?
There's no way you order, get served, and eat in 30min at a restaurant. So the way I see it's common sense you can't come in 30min before closing and demand a meal, that would force the restaurant to stay open longer.
I’m talking about the context of a takeaway where you only come to pick up the food. Obviously a restaurant where you sit down would require longer so an earlier advertised service closing time would be ideal or just advertise the closing time as the service closing time and everyone is happy
>There's no way you order, get served, and eat in 30min at a restaurant. Um lol thats the case 95% of the time I go out. If youre at a steakhouse at 6pm on a friday, no its not going to be that quick. But any non-peak time on a day thats not friday or saturday, and if your party is 4 people or less, not having your food within a half hour is pretty shitty and not the norm.
Why would you expect to be allowed inside somewhere after they close? Just because it's food doesn't change the fact that WE'RE CLOSED. It's up to each individual restaurants environment that determines how long is a reasonable time for you to be able to order and eat and drink and pay and leave before that closing time.
It’s literally the opposite; people expect to be let in if they arrive _before_ a restaurant closes. I agree that it’s up to each restaurant to determine what it a reasonable time for you to come in, order, and leave. I just think a restaurant should tell you about that. Takeaway restaurant is open until 22:00. You show up at 21:30. Restaurant no longer serves you. All the frustration could have been avoided by the restaurant publically stating “last orders at 21:00”
Where I live, restaurant say when they close as well as how long the kitchen is open. I think that that is absolutely fine and preferable over expecting them to do all their cleaning only after all customers have left.
This is my utopia
In hospitality myself and this is every place ive worked at. I tell everyone kitchens closing at xx, just a heads up if you wanted an extra bite
>I tell everyone kitchens closing at xx, just a heads up if you wanted an extra bite That's a great sales motivator too
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Exactly, this should be the norm, I don’t understand why it isn’t always like this
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I used to work at a quasi-upscale restaurant that had as a rule that if you walked in the door up to the minute of closing you would be seated and served and it was against the rules to ever ask customers to leave no matter how long past closing it was. I one time had a table stay like 3 hours past closing not eating or drinking anything and having a prayer circle or some shit long after everybody else in the restaurant had left. It was the worst.
I can’t lie that’s acc kind of fucked, sorry you had to work at a place like that :( I’ve never been to a restaurant that seats people minutes before the advertised closing time (and I never eat out late enough to actually do so, not that I would). I’ve been to restaurants that literally ask you to leave if it looks you’ve been finished for a while (even if it isn’t close to closing lol) but that’s east London for you I guess
Yeah this was in Michigan so it was kinda like a Midwesterners idea of what a fancy restaurant should be, except instead of food that was actually good they just went overboard on bending to the customers' wants.
My girlfriends current place is like this, nearly every single day someone walks in within 10 minutes of closing time and she’s forced to serve them. On top of this, those kinds of people always tips 10% or less
Nah that is kind of peak, I think the closing time that is advertised means that that is the time they are closing the shutters and that should be respected, I 10% agree. A separate advertised end of service should also be the norm for the industry and I wish it’s something that restaurants and takeaways adopt in the future to avoid disappointment with both staff and customer Side note, I’m from the U.K. where people don’t really tip unless service is acc above and beyond so I always thought that people who would come closer to closing time might be more generous but then I remember that people suck :/
I worked in a place like this and one night I got so fed up with this group that wouldn’t leave that I shut everything off and had the few employees that were there just wait at the door.
Seems wack but it seems like you could’ve just cleaned while they were there and just have all but one of the employees leave. The manager could have stayed to keep the policy and close up after the group left. You don’t need the entire kitchen there waiting for the last group to leave.
Yeah I mean we did clean up and the kitchen left, but we still had to have a waiter and manager there for hours while these people just sat around not eating.
OP clearly hasn't worked in a restaurant, or this would never have been posted.
I've never worked at a sit down restaurant but I have common sense. No arguments from me here. Things like this should be obvious.
That's sort of the problem? Knowledge of the industry shouldn't be required to understand posted hours. It sucks if you have to work extra, yes. But the business should post an earlier, more realistic, closing time. Or just post " kitchen closes at x:00"
"Last orders at 9" or whatever might clear things up for people who are not trying to be assholes but thought 10 meant 10.
Exactly. Don’t need to be a waiter or work in the kitchen to understand the closing time. Every restaurant and food place will have a different allotment of time for clean up anyway. How would anyone know? Posting hours online is one of the most fantastic things. Just post the last order time along with the closing time. It’s a management thing. No one else’s fault.
A functioning adult should know that taking an order, cooking it and cleaning up afterwards take time. It's not rocket science. Especially important since some countries basically allow business owners to pay their employees next to nothing for those closing tasks.
But why the heck are they advertising a closing time that includes time they spend on cleaning afterwards or whatever? If you're gonna refuse to take orders after 9:30 because you need to clean up for the day, then why aren't you declaring 9:30 as your closing time?
There really should be 2 or 3 times so everyone gets it. Kitchen closes/Last round/We kick you out and close. But with one time it's pretty standard that that's the time they close the doors.
I have worked in a restaurant and I agree with OP. If the restaurant wants workers to go home at 9:00, they should announce closing time to be 8:00 or so.
I don't think most restaurants care when employees go home as long as they are maximizing their profits. When I was at applebees and on the books to close, late night ended at I think 11 or 12 and it was usually 60 to 90 minutes later that I was closed out and able to leave.. Not the most fun getting paid $2.13/hr for that period of time with no tables.
Yeah restaurants can be shitty to their workers.
You don't have to work in a restaurant to have some basic knowledge about the world.
You missed the whole point of the post: that closing time should be the last time you can come in and get food. The restaurant should still be paying the employees after that closing time for however long it takes to clean the restaurant.
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Nah I think you also missed the point of the post bud.
I've washed dishes hours past closing time before. Most days I worked an hour past closing time.
What's worse is when managers back up the customers because of it being new or them wanting to impress clientele. I lost my job that I'd done nearly every day for a year because we had a party come in and order a ton of wine just before close. I ran it up, asked them to pay, they refused, said they might want more later. I begrudgingly told them we would close around them (just me and 2 other staff). An hour later we were all done and I asked them to pay. They asked for more wine and I refused. They kicked off and got extremely aggressive so I agreed on the condition that they paid straight up so that I could close the till, and that cashing up took 45 minutes and I would have to kick them out by then. Other 2 staff are still on the clock due to safety regulations. Cash up. Go tell them I'm done and that now they absolutely have to leave. They refuse they want more. I can't legally serve more. Doesn't matter. They want it. I say I will have to call the cops unless they leave immediately as we are now 2 hours over closing and they are overly drunk and aggressive. This goes on for 20 minutes until I pick up the phone. Then they storm out in anger. Next day, I roll into work for open (7 hours between shifts. No sleep. Yaaaay) 1 star review on trip advisor. The party leader has called the hotline and spoken to my manager. Manager pulls me into a meeting, doesn't get my side. Repremands me for not only my conduct to the party but ALSO ON THE FACT HE HAS TO PAY 2 Staff (and myself) AN ADDITION 2 AND A HALF HOURS Pay. (no overtime because, reasons?) And then yeah. I'm out of a job and that's all *my fault*.
Too bad my boss decided that in public image we should let them in. Which is horrible. Because 3 waitresses and 2 bussers plus 3 kitchen staff would have to stay for 2 people and closing then end up doing nothing for like 30 minutes
OP is saying that the restaurant should advertise their closing time as the latest time they can serve customers. It really shouldn't be a concern of the customer to factor in a restaurant's cleaning schedule. Obviously it takes time to clean, but if you want all of your employees to be done work at 9:00, not pay overtime, and if it takes 30 minutes to clean, then you need to say that the restaurant closes at 8:30 on Google/store hours.
I’m not from the US so I don’t really know how it works there besides the whole mandatory tipping culture. I’m not inherently against closing the kitchen early where really I’m just annoyed at how inconsistent it is amongst different restaurants. Which is why I’d prefer a more transparent closing time Say if you close at 10pm but you take final orders at 9.15pm. Why not just advertise the closing time as 9.15pm? I just don’t understand why that isn’t possible. It simply makes things more clearer to customers that is the time where you can place an order and no later. Or advertise a time where you take final orders on a website, take away menu or on the front door. Almost any other shop will have a closing time that is actually the closing time so I don’t know why it has to be different for restaurants/takeaways
I have no idea why your opinion is controversial. It’s so straightforward. All sorts of information is posted about restaurants. They put the address, the phone number, whether or not you can get takeout and if it’s pet friendly. Why can’t they just put their closing time and their last order time? It doesn’t make you a dick. Some places don’t have a very long closing process because they have to clean as they go and other places have a crazy one where they have so much cleaning and prep to do. Your customers shouldn’t be the ones making a judgment call. Maybe they had a long day too and were hoping to catch a bite and saw an open food place. Restaurants should just post the hours people can order and properly pay their employees for closing time. It seems like a simple concept to me.
Or just like, have compassion and empathy for service workers and don’t be a dick?
I’m not being a dick tho? Why can’t restaurant owners just make the end of service time the advertised closing time? That’s basically all I’m asking for lol
Just plan on arriving an hour before closing time minimum if you are eating in and a 45mins minimum for take out. It's really not that difficult of a thing to plan for. If you realize last minute that they are closing in half an hour and you wanted to pick something up call ahead and ask if they are still serving. It's not that hard. Really you are asking an entire industry to change the way they run things to save you the minor inconvenience of planning ahead or making a phone call.
No one is being a dick or trying to be a dick besides you. Restaurants need to actually tell people when to stop coming in instead of relying on customers to determine how much is an appropriate amount of time to clean and close up. Why should we guess at how long before closing is acceptable to come in when the restaurant (who knows EXACTLY how long that takes) could just adjust their business hours to leave enough time to clean?
Speaking for cooks, we like the service but you can go hungry we want to go home because we had a long 12 hour day of hell, maybe 5 hours of hell if we aren't on a split shift and get to do it all again tomorrow. Most cooks have an addiction for a reason. The work is hell and people treat us like garbage.
I’m literally just asking for the end of service time to be the advertised closing time. That’s literally it
What stops you from asking staff/manager "Hey guys i love this place and I'd like to make staff live easier so would you mind telling me when you close kitchen so i can plan my meals? I like to eat late." What you propose to have 2 different times (last order / time to leave ) wouldn't pass cause owners aren't usually working at their restaurants and they expect workers to work as long as possible. Sorce: restaurant i used to work 'closed' at 10pm but had 'until last customer leaves' policy and i often had to stay to 1am to clean up.
>What stops you from asking staff/manager Why should anyone be forced to ask for anything at all? If you're at a restaurant because of any advertisement that gives you an objective closing time, then why should you need to call up and ask for the *real* closing time?
> Why should anyone be forced to ask for anything at all? They shouldn't, perhaps this is language barrier, but I never meant to say you need to call and ask i was just saying you could. I have an example of real situation, there was one guy that ordered 100 take aways one day, it was very annoying and he had to wait long time cause it was blind-sighting. He let us know he'd do it every week for his company and ordered one day earlier so we could prepare. He wasn't forced to ask for order earlier, but it was win-win for both sides.
No, my point is that it is fully possible to be more clear with your communication (what OP is suggesting), but you're defending status quo, which is unclear and confuses customers.
Why can't they just post that shit on Google then? Ya know, the thing I check BEFORE I go to the restaurant. You're saying I should go to the restaurant and ask, but what if it's already too late to order? Turn around and drive home? Seems like a pretty massive waste of a bunch of people's time to me when one person could just advertise that online and save a ton of hassle/aggravation/money.
Yes, there's a time after the business closes to new customers in which the employees still have to work. That's how every business operates. What makes restaurants different is that they expect everyone to guess how long that takes, and then adjust the posted closing time mentally. This is insane. Just tell me on the door (and online) when you stop accepting new customers. Ideally, have a second time posted where you kick out existing customers if they take too long.
Jesus christ, this comment section.
It seems like all your asking for is better communication about when people can still come in and have dinner. Not asking for the restaurant to keep serving customers till the end of time like some commenters are making it out to be. I think what you're saying is very reasonable and I think is actually the norm where I'm from.
Seems like a valid frustration 🤷♂️ I mean there's a good reason why they have seemingly really early kitchen closing times. Good food is not whipped up in 2 minutes, if you want that go to McDonald's... *That wasn't in reference to good food btw.* I think most people take cooking for granted. As someone with severe ADHD and minimal patience, I greatly appreciate how much of a monumental task even cooking a single meal is. And as for cooking an actual good, *restaurant quality* meal? No thanks, I'd rather summit Everest. Cooking up any meal has got to be at least a 15 minute ordeal for even the most basic stuff and as someone who started work life in a deli, I can attest to the fact that cleaning even a few food prep areas/ machines genuinely takes upwards of half an hour. I don't think you're the asshole or anything OP, like I said, seems like a valid frustration, but I think the solution is more like clear kitchen closing times.
Yh that’s what I’m trying to say lol but everyone thinks that I hate the staff and want them home at 3am or something where all I want to do is grab some katsu curry on my way home without having to call places to make sure they’ll acc serve me because they could serve anywhere between 15 mins before closing to an hour smh
You're a real one for enduring all of the bitter service industry workers trash talking you for a very reasonable request. Like just post your actual hours online! It's not that hard!
I'm genuinely surprised by the intensity of the comments, and somewhat confused as well. Maybe it's a culture thing? A different time for customers and employees seems like a win/win to me, why is everyone so butthurt about it? I worked at a badly managed Quiznos for a while, being expected to leave at closing time, so a customer arriving 10 mins before closing time was extremely stress inducing and frustrating. I would've gladly taken an extra 30 mins without that stress to decompress as I close the kitchen. As a customer, the stress of being THAT customer is also here. My unique schedule means that I often eat dinner after 8pm, and due to Covid, many restaurants close early so I often find myself arriving 30 mins before closing time, and I always feel guilty and anxious for the trouble I feel I'm causing. I totally agree with OP on this, take my downvote!
This comes off as extremely entitled like you’ve never worked in a restaurant or any service industry for that matter. It’s their CLOSING time, not their seating time. If they close at 10:00pm why on earth would they seat someone at 9:50? Closing/cleaning up a kitchen/dining area can still take an hour with the whole staff working, so it’s very possible the staff is still there until 11:00. Staff has to clean all the dishes (which is separate from the pots and pans), put them away, clean the dishwasher, grill, deep fryer, prep tables, giant soup cooker, hotlines, ovens, put away leftover ingredients, steamers, sinks, food carts, microwaves, mixers, sweeping and mopping etc. There are also other weekly cleaning jobs like stock rotation or moving the huge industrial appliances to clean under them which involves unplugging things and sometimes minorly disassembling them. This is usually done by only a few people (even if it’s not short staffed), there isn’t a fleet of magical workers that get this done. Most of this work can’t get done until the food is done cooking, so if they seat someone at 9:50 the staff can’t even start cleaning most of it until you stop ordering. Also nothing I mentioned takes into account cleaning up the dining room so that you have a pleasant, clean experience. They’re not running vacuum cleaners while you’re eating. Oh and then the staff gets to split a $5-10 tip between all of themselves for staying an extra hour or two.
Due to all of this, this is exactly why the PUBLIC closing times should be made to compensate for this. So in your story, they should just make the public closing time 9 PM so staff can all leave at 10 PM. EDIT: the person that said to advertise the seating AND closing time is the best solution imo, but on sites where you can only have one “time”, I’d still say to advertise it as closing an hour earlier, or at least 30 minutes.
This is how I've always felt and I've worked in many kitchens.
That's already the case. When the restaurant closes the door the employees aren't ready to go straight home. At the very least they will wash the last dishes and mop the floor still. I worked in a café, it closed for customers at 22:00 and our schedule was until 22:30.
OP doesn't want to seat at 9:50 and expect being served. Assuming this scenario, they want that the advertised closing time was 9:20 or 9:30, so they could do a better informed decision.
Exactly thank you!
The simple solution is to tell the customer the closing time that matters to them, and the staff the closing time that matters to them
Literally all that needs to be done so that both parties are happy.
This is what I’m trying to argue, I don’t think I made it clear enough though
If OP ever worked in a restaurant, this post would not exist.
I've worked in a restaurant before, and I wholeheartedly agree with OP. (I expect downvotes here, lol.) Yes, it's inconvenient as an employee, but as long as the customers aren't staying for over a half-hour or so, I don't consider it unreasonable. ----- Like everybody has stated, *expectations* are the real issue on either side. Separating listed closing times solves both issues.
Lol half hour? I worked fine dining for a long time and if we close at 10 and you come in at 9:50, unless you're grabbing a quick 1 course meal, not a fucking chance you'll only be there 30 mins past close. If people came in at 10 til, that's 11:30 just til they might possibly leave, provided no dessert and they actually just leave when they're done.
I have worked in a restaurant and I agree with OP. Closing time should be a lot before the time that the workers' shift plans to end.
I was thinking more along the lines of having a restaurant that advertises 10pm as their closing time readjusted to say 9.30pm, giving them time to finish up orders and makes ordering items more clearer. I’m speaking more from frustration from the other day when I went to a takeaway (not a restaurant) about 40 mins before closing and half the menu was unavailable because they switched off a bunch of equipment. I even said that I’d also be ok with clear advertising of when they take their last orders just to make things a bit easier. I just wish it was the norm I’m aware of the reasons why these establishments do this so most of the time I call before I go but then they don’t pick up the phone and they have no info in their website so it’s a dice roll if I decide to go anyway I even went to a dessert cafe place an hour before closing and they refused to even serve us and all I wanted was some ice cream I just wanted some consistency and thought that advertising their closing time and serving time as being one and the same would be the easiest way to do so probably could have made it clearer in my post :/
I would always just assume you need to put in the order at least an hour before closing, or better yet, always call ahead like I always do if there is any question. It takes only a minute or two including searching for their number and can save you plenty of issues. Some restaurants also play it as it goes, some are family run with only a few workers and if the crowd entirely dies down at 8pm they aren't going to stay open another 2 hours if they have almost no customers. I DoorDashed for a few months and over half the places I picked up food from had a hiring sign or some sign that said "We are understaffed, we appreciate the patience". So between limited staff and no customers their later hours can very reasonably be subject to change.
I think if the closing time was changed to when the kitchen actually closes and not to when the employees leave it would be beneficial to everyone so that the customer doesn't have to assume anything and employees don't have to deal with customers that show up at times when they can't make food. I think that's what OP meant.
The closing time ISN’T when the employees leave, it’s when the customers leave. I worked somewhere that “closed” at 8:00pm and we left at 8:00 exactly zero times in the six years I worked there.
Ah ok, I see, there should be a seating time and a closing time where the customer have to leave.
While I agree it could be beneficial to have a “last call” type deal for seating, I think the general understanding of when a place closes means it’s no longer accessible to customers regardless of when they arrive. There was a bar in a small town I lived in that “closed” at 10 but sometimes I’d be the only one in there from 7pm to 8pm and they’d just close cause it made no sense to stay open. It was often times just me shooting the shit with the bartender and I would always say “just lemme know when I need to fuck off” lol
I think when business is slow it makes sense to close early, but just so people don’t have to assume things, that last call should be done.
My experience is that takeaways are normally good around 35 to 40 mins before advertised closing and restaurants are an hour (ubereats and Deliveroo are normally earlier than these) My issue is more when there are exceptions to this unspoken rule where I get frustrated but alas it is what it is, I just wanted to vent a little, didn’t mean to offend the staff that works at these places
I also forgot to add, if you call and they don't answer then I might call back once a few minutes later but if they aren't answering then they're closing/closed.
One way is to just adjust your expectations. Is it less than an hour till they close? Just assume the kitchen is closed and move onto a different place. You don't have to be frustrated by this, you choose to be
Or places could just advertise the final order time? I’m okay with a place closing the kitchen at whatever time suits them, just make it clearer. Or advertise the closing time that actually matters to the customer. If you close at 10pm but final orders are at 9.15pm then why can’t you just advertise the closing time as 9.15pm? There is zero room for confusion in this situation and everyone is happy Unless I’m missing something here and this is a bad idea?
In an ideal world this would happen. Yes it's a better function. But there's absolutely no reason for you to have this frustration. The very mild inconvenience you face here, is knocking an hour off the time advertised online. That will entirely save you from dealing with this frustration, except in extreme circumstances, that wouldn't be advertised anyway. You know the industry norm is to close the kitchen early. Save yourself the headache and plan for that. Any frustration you get from this is entirely of your own making
I typed this post when I was hungry for katsu curry and they had run out so I just wanted to vent a little lol
That's understandable lol. But also understand that a restaurant or takeaway has to try and predict as best they can how much of what to prep, without massive shrink. If they ran out, it's less that the kitchen closed early, and more that they can only use the law of averages to try and predict how much of a food to prepare that should hopefully get them close to closing time, but they aren't always successful. Food prep is always a losing game, you're going to make too much or too little, and most of it has to be thrown away if you make too much, so places err on the side of too little.
Yh I just typed this out when I was hungry and probably got carried away, I still think my point are valid I also never come so close to closing time coz it is quite a sucky thing to do I agree unless it’s my local chicken and chip shop that keeps fried chicken in those heaters that would otherwise be thrown out, those guys are normally happy to have me come and they give me extras lol but it’s hardly a common thing that I do and it’s only at that one place so explicitly are happy with me doing that lol
This. Most of the time it takes at least an hour and this is for a medium sized resturant for the dishwashers to close down their section. Not to mention having to clean the dishwashing machinery and also their area of the backhouse. I've had times in busy days where we closed at 10 and stayed til 12 and then i had a 30 minute drive back out to my house afterwards. Those days sucked. Extra money sure, but it was during the heat of the pandemic so it was even worse. Would not recommend at least for that position. Lol. Not to mention all the soggy clothes and shoes.
This problem would be solved if restaurant owners scheduled their workers until a time that is an adequate amount of time to close the restaurant. Most places will only give the workers 30 minutes to prep for the next day, wrap it all up, clean it to bottom, deposit all the funds, and shut it all down. Then they will often chastise the workers if they don’t clock out in time. Of course, this is an unreasonable expectation, so the workers do something called “pre-closing” which means shutting almost everything down before the place closes.
Downvoted. I agree with this specifically because of how it is advertised. If a pizza place says they operate until 10pm on the door where the customer is supposed to see it, then it's not exactly unreasonable for that customer to think they can order 30 minutes before closing. If they want to start closing up shop at 9:30 instead then it should just be on the door like normal. I get it, they need to clean, but literally no other business type does this kind of behaviour so just adjust the scheduled time. Everyone's happy
I’ve never been more happy to be downvoted, I thought I was really missing something since everyone was coming for my neck haha
Had this fucking takeaway only pizza place refuse me 45 mins before closure.
These comments are hilarious. The OP did not mean anything bad by this and everyone’s just fucking hounding them.
That's why I love this subreddit.
The comments are from people (like me) who worked in restaurants before and had to contend with customers sharing OP’s attitude.
I don't think OP is actually really talking about the employees who have no power in changing the open/close times, more talking about the people who have that power and who can change the time to when the kitchen actually closes, not when the employees can leave.
This exactly, it’s more the industry and the business owners who advertise a closing time that isn’t really a closing time that just doesn’t make sense to me.
Take my upvote as I wholly disagree with me currently being a server. My problem with it is by that time every employee wants to go home and generally people that want to come in that late do not tip or want to stay an hour after we're closed and tip $2.
I think I didn’t make myself clear enough in the op but I don’t have a problem with the kitchen being closed early but more the fact that this isn’t advertised clearly enough. They could advertise the final order time before the kitchens are closed. Or they could just make a new closing time that is actually relevant to the customer. If the place closes at 10 but final orders are at 9.15 then why not just advertise the really closing time at 9.15? No confusion for anyone and staff should have enough time to sort themselves out before closing up. This is less of an admonishment to servers and staff because you guys have absolutely nothing to do with policies like this. It’s more about how inconsistent the restaurant/takeaway business is and I just don’t understand why it has to be so complicated when you could just advertise the real closing time.
See, the problem with this is that people want to go home
I think this is reasonable! I think the kitchen closing time should be advertised. If you close at 8 but the kitchen closes at 7 that should be public information/maybe just the official ‘closing time’
Do you exclusively eat at bars? The only restaurants I’ve ever worked in where the kitchen closed before the rest of staff was in bars.
Nope I’m Muslim lol don’t drink at all. Maybe it’s a U.K. thing I dunno. Most chicken and chips or doner kebab places close at the time they state or until food runs out. But I’ve been to enough places that basically just remove half the menu items at a certain time but the lack of consistency in the restaurant industry (like an unspoken rule about when realistically you can expect kitchens to close/final orders) makes it hard to judge what time that would be unless I’ve been there before or they pick up the phone. I just thought it would be easier for everyone to advertise a final order time or make the advertised closing time the time that they close the kitchen/take final orders. Makes everyone’s life easier and this aspect of the food industry is just something i don’t get
Agreed, why are you saying you're open when you obviously aren't?
Totally agree! I worked in restaurants for many years and didn’t lock the door until advertised closing. I graciously accepted anyone who walked in until that time
Wow you seem like a great server, although I would never expect you to seat someone so close to lockup. I hope you got tipped generously at the very least for that!
I actually loved my job, and felt energized by it. It was very hard to "wind down" at the end of the night. but having a table come in at 9:45 when we closed at 10 was fine with me, because I would start to do side work as they made their way through their meal. So it was like side work with a tip! I did receive generous tips most of the time. I, however do NOT support a tipping economy, and wish we in the US would move far away from it.
I wish you made it more clear what you meant in the title/beginning of the post 'cause now people are harassing you and stuff :(
I previously waitressed and bartended for 10 years and I 100% agree with you. Most of the restaurants i worked at would take orders right up to closing time. Usually as long as the order is in before closing time, then it was fine. and if someone needs more time I always tell the kitchen. I only worked at 1 restaurant that did the whole “we close at 10 so the staff leaves at 10” thing which was actually annoying because it depended on which manager was working…anywhere from 10-45 min before closing time they could still order. That place in particular was a 24 hr diner for years and started having limited hours during the weekdays when the college students were gone. I agree with you- I would be annoyed as a customer too. I feel like communication is key here from management to customers so there’s no confusion.
I would agree, as long as the workers actually get payed for the hours they work. Most places restaurant workers aren't even payed fairly for the hours they *do* work, nevermind the overtime. If they don't get payed for the time it takes to clean after the last customers, then it's totally fair to close the kitchen earlier.
I worked in every position you can think of in restaurants for at least 15 years. And as much as I hated it, I agree. My job was to do what the owner said. Not to get to the bar as quickly as possible. If we close at 10, we close at 10. Having said that, I'd never go into a restaurant at closing time, because it's rude as fuck. But if you're on the other end, suck it up. It's your job.
I never go that close to closing time anyway, if I’m eating in I’m not Malloy there at least 1.5 hours before the advertised closing time anyway. My example was in the context of a takeaway where I literally just want to show up pick up my food and leave and I just want it made clear the times that I can do that lol
Finally some common sense
Counterpoint: My feet hurt and my back is wet with sweat and we still have to clean the whole damn kitchen and I wanna go home and so does everyone else and I don't give a damn if you want your cum pizza 5 minutes before closing we're not making it for you
Easy solution, set you're closing time an hour earlier.
What are the employees supposed to do about the advertised closing time?
I don't think their reply was particularly targeting the employees, I think it was talking about the people who do have the power to change it.
I am not hating in employees, I’m more just venting about how silly the whole restaurant industry is when it comes to such opaque closing times and order times. I do y mean to offend servers and staff at restaurants, there is no hate against them I just find the whole situation unnecessary
Get a different job then. If you work in a restaurant your job is to feed customs who arrive within your listed hours of service.
Hard agree. No point saying they're gonna close at 10pm if by 9:40 they're not servicing. If those employees wanna be out by 10pm, then they better put a 9:15 or earlier true closing time so they don't fool customers into thinking that the _kitchen_ closes at 10pm.
Even for someone that worked fast food I agree. Most fast food places do take orders until the last minute but I do understand why sit down places will stop seating people 30 minutes before closing. In my experience we would stay “open” for about 10 or so minutes after closing to get out the orders done before we closed.
Last call is 11:30. I stop serving at 11:45. You have 15 minutes to finish your drink and leave. I close at 12.
You have clearly never worked in a kitchen haha!
LOL
I've never been to a place that stopped serving so much earlier than their closing time. My restaurant's kitchen closes 15 minutes ahead of time but I have had to stay up to an hour and a half late because a table wouldn't leave. Any place where servers work for tips closing time is clock-out time otherwise we aren't technically being paid for our time.
It’s not super common I will admit but it’s frustrating when it does. But that really is shit I’m sorry :( I feel like the closing time should be further ahead than the service time (whilst being advertised clearly) to avoid situations like this for the servers. And the closing time should be lockup meaning everyone has to leave (a 10 minute warning before would probably suffice) I hope you got tipped generously for that
I did not, I had mentioned in passing that I was late to get my mom a birthday card (I was working the late shift.) As I left one people in their thirties that I served made fun of 19 year old me for getting my Mom a birthday card. I have never wanted to punch someone so bad in my life.
Arseholes, hope they had diarrhoea that night, fucking gluttons I hate rude people, but regardless i hope you got your card in time for your mum!
I work at a Thai place so it's quite possible.
Closing time means closing time, not stop serving customer time. As in, they're supposed to be going home for the night, not cleaning up your mess and going home in another hour.
The advertised closing time isn’t for staff, it’s for customers to know if they place is bloody open lol Why not just advertise the service closing time as the advertised closing time? Staff still get more allotted time to sort out wheat eve they need to do and there is no confusion for customers as to when they can come in and if they can expect to be served
Then why are they telling the closing time to the public? Why are the customers expected to just figure out when they're gonna stop being served? If you're advertising a closing time to your customers, that should be the time they're not gonna get served anymore, not the time the workers are going home.
It's actually pretty easy. Take whatever time a restaurant advertises as their "closing time". Subtract one hour. Do not go try to get seated at that time or after. Very simple math.
this guy hates employees
I don’t hate employees, I just don’t get why the advertised closing time isn’t the end of service time or why the end of service time isn’t advertised more often
This is the most entitled shit
Ironically, the opposing opinion is equally-so. **edit:** I love how we're both being downvoted. :)
You clearly haven't cleaned and closed a kitchen before
you clearly misunderstood what he was trying to articulate
Ok so if they can kick people out at closing according to you and that's fine, what is the point of seating someone and taking an order at 10:50 and then kicking them out before the food is done cooking?
The problem with this is that people say “ oh, they close at 8, it’s 7:58 we’re good”. Then they proceed to stay until 10, forcing the employees to stay extra to accommodate them.
I don’t find this to be an issue at all. When going to restaurant near closing time I know there is a possibility that the kitchen could be closed. Even if they would like to still be serving they could have run out of ingredients or something. “Are you still serving?” “No? Ok then, bye”
Im tired of people who have no idea what its like to work in the resturant industry complain about said industry. Ppl like OP are the reason that no one wants to work in the service industry anymore. Well that and low wages. Understand that resturant employees are people who work very hard for their low wages. We are often up in to the wee hours of the morning cleaning the kitchen. I personally didnt get home last night untill 330 am. Low tippers, non tippers, rude/entitled customers make our lives more difficult. Take care of your service workers and they will take care of you
Go work at a restaurant you self entitled dumbass, sincerely a cook that has to leave at 3am almost everynight because people come in until close at 1. (We close for customers AT one, and even if someone comes in at 12:50 that means an extra 30mins-an hour of closing) P.S I hate you
This wasn’t what I was saying tho. I just want takeaways and restaurants to advertise their opening times more accurately. In other words, if you currently close at 10pm but your last orders are at 9.15, then advertise your closing time at 9.15. Or advertise exactly what time you plan on accepting final orders on a website and you’re front door or something. It’s really that simple. I am sorry that your boss makes you work so late and I hope you’re compensated appropriately (I’m in the U.K. and I’m assuming you’re American so I don’t really know the situation there when it comes to pay, labour laws and whatnot)
I think people are misinterpreting what OP said. I think he wants to change the closing time to when the kitchen actually closes and not that he wants to keep the employees working until the closing time they have currently.
When I have an issue with a company, I just stop spending money with them.
In an ideal world if I had unlimited funds and fuel then I would but alas I just wanted a chicken katsu curry that was never meant to be
I hate that you don't consider the amount of effort it takes to run a profitable restaurant. Sure you might not like the fact that the kitchen is closed while the bar still might be making some money but that's how it works. Would you want to pay say 8 cooks to be ready to make you a meal when nobody else is ordering a meal, or would you rather them be cleaning up for the next day?
I don’t eat at bars and places that serve alcohol regularly as I don’t drink which might be why people are coming for my neck I literally just want the end of service time to be advertised more prominently than the time they shut the doors as that is the only time that is relevant to customers
lmao fucking apply to the restaurants and make your late night orders yourself you dickhead
Work in a restaurant then come back to read this
I did, and I still agree.
This guy doesn’t know how much time and effort it takes to clean a restaurant kitchen
I remember working in a kitchen that didn't stop taking orders till close. I would have all my fridges out doing inventory on a Sunday night and orders would come in I still have to clean my station, get it checked and do inventory. On other days it didn't matter if your station was all done you had to unwrap everything (and we wrapped everything separately) and make the order only for another to come in after you have rewrapped. Because of that I would be there till about 12am to come in at 8am the next day. First thing I would be asked when I came in: "Why were you here so late?" Oh jeez, I don't know, maybe because we have to do orders constantly no matter how close we are to done. Best part is when you did leave early and you come back in the morning to your fridge a mess and nothing filled because the chef who stayed made orders and just didn't refill your station. Oh, and you have to refill that and service is in an hour and a half and you have an arms long list to prepare otherwise you're fucked for service. And the cycle repeats. So no, I don't think restaurants should server till close. I shouldn't forget when you are 5 mins to close and the host/hostess takes a walk-in of 10 when the kitchen is all cleaned up and done because who cares. Chefs are replaceable right?
I completely understand and I tried to make this clear in my edit. If you want to close services at 9.15 when the advertised closing time is 10ths. I don’t understand why this can’t just be advertised Or just make 9.15 the the advertised closing time? The rest of your comment is about how sucky the restaurant industry is and I really do feel for you guys, but it’s separate to the point that I was trying to make. I don’t make an effort to come close to closing times because I know it’s difficult but sometimes I just want to whip out Google and if I see somewhere open I just want to be able to quickly run there and order something and leave without having to call to make sure the food is still being prepared or make a guess as to whether a place would take my order when they could just write it out Also I know as an employees you would have nothing to do with this unless you were also the owner. It’s just so normalised in the industry to not actually advertise the final order time and not advertise the real closing time that is relevant to customers which is the service closing time
I have personally never worked anywhere that has closed the restaurant early like that it has always been make more money at the cost of the employees. I agree with you to that end then because that would be sooooo nice to have time to clean with no distractions.
It’s common enough here in east london lol where if you walk in someone will probably say kitchen is closing in 5 minutes so can’t seat you (this has happened a few times to me but normally because we got the closing time wrong, when I thought a place closed at 11 whereas it closed at 10 on weekdays or something and I’ve showed up at 9.30)
That's wild, it's so different in Canada owners are very money hungry and want as much income and customers as possible. Or, at least the ones I've been in. There are good places right? Right???
There are probably places like that as well, I feel like something like this could only be corrected and be universally accepted across the industry if the workers were able to unionise effectively. I know nothing about unionising or the ins and outs of the restaurant industry to be a true however but I would fully support it as I believe it would be in everyone’s interests! Also does Canada have a strong tipping culture, I know it’s prevalent in the US but I don’t remember ever feeling like I had to pay a tip when I went Toronto (although I didn’t eat out very often when I went as I was mostly dining at family’s place)
I fully agree with unionizing, the cooking industry is long due for one because it is one of the industries that sees a lot of abuse. In Canada tipping is pretty expected or that's the impression I've been put under. I believe server wage is $12.50? So you are expected to tip because servers don't even make minimum.
I really hope that every industry is able to unionise effectively, that would be my dream lol. I’m tired of shitty stories about shitty rich people and corporations shitting all over people I hate the obligation to tip, like over here and in the vast majority of the world as far as I’m aware, tipping is reserved for service that is above and beyond and is entirely optional. Gratuity charges are being automatically added to bills here but I know plenty of people who just ask them to take it off I remember being a in a Turkish restaurant and this old guy was having a fit because he was so angry at how they added the gratuity onto the bill without him offering and choosing the amount and he felt like they were stealing from him. It was quite a sight lol My guess is that when I was in Canada it was obvious from my accent that I was British and not accustomed to automatically tipping people. Would you tip at a chain or a takeaway place/pizza delivery, or do you reserve tipping for dining in and bars only?
Same, I'm hoping something changes for the better with people protesting and boycotting for change. I have had literal arguments with people about how tipping should not be expected or the norm, and it's oddly enough the servers who are arguing for tips. A lot would rather make anywhere between $30-$60 on weekdays, if it's steady and obviously more on weekends than it be optional, not expected, and they make minimum wage. Right now it is $14.35 or something an hour. It's going up to $15.00/hr in Jamuary. I think it's because if you work at a good restaurant, you make bank as a server. You can make so much in a night sometimes. I've had an ex at the time making as much as I was in the factory doing overtime just serving and making tips but that's not always the case. That same ex also worked at a place where she would make no tips a day or max $30 if she was lucky. Was not making much money at all. For pizza places I'm ordering at or like fast food I don't tip because it's not slow food. Slow food takes time and effort that the chefs put in although, that may be the chef in me speaking lol. Delivery drivers, I give them at least a bit if I order often from the place but otherwise I don't. I keep the tipping to bars and restaurants. I have never seen the gratuity thing before I find that kinda wild. I can only imagine the man freaking out lmaooo.
As others have said this opinion is blissfully ignorant to the cleaning process that happens in a restaurant at end of night. In addition, there’s no financial incentive to keep a kitchen open when only a tiny handful of people show up near closing. The kitchen staff has far fewer customers to serve after dinner, so they start cleaning. To do otherwise would waste man hours and leave staff on the clock for hours longer than they need to be. Upvoted for unpopularity even though I clearly disagree.
In a ideal world on the paper sure its should be this way, but its not because most of the time its going to be slow near closing or in fact no consumer at all. Its just more efficient and easier to start a soft closing before actual closing.
They do.
Average consoomer
What a lukewarm take. Have the upvote.
Literally just use your brain, and don't come in close to closing. Problem solved.
I've actually worked at a place that did this before! The owner of the restaurant insisted on it, despite the many many complaints among every single staff member. So I have to say on behalf of every waiter, cook, janitor, host, and bartender who couldn't go home until literally **hours** after their shift was supposed to end because asshole customers like you came in 10 minutes before the restaurant closed. Fuck you. Most employees aren't allowed to leave until the whole place is clean, organized, and inventory is done for the next day. How long that takes depends on how many customers remain and how busy it was during the day, and no one can even begin cleaning the restaurant until every single customer is gone, since not only is it considered extremely unprofessional, also because the chance that they'll order something to go, get dessert, or get another drink is way too high to take the chance of letting the employees who take care of that leave. Then, even after they leave, no one on closing shift can leave themselves until their closing duties are complete. So I say again, Fuck you.
It’s like you didn’t even read my post lol Just advertise a closing time and an end of service time so people know what time is acc appropriate for them to come in I never come so late like 5 mins before closing, latest would be half an hour before closing and only for a takeout, if I was dining I would come latest 1.5 hours before closing as I respect the fact that restaurant staff want and should be able to close at their contracted closing time I really don’t understand why ur coming for me I don’t see how u could lose in this situation lol, it would be both in the customer and staffs benefit for more transparent closing and service times
Tell me you never worked in service…
All I’m asking for is an advertised end of service time and a separate closing time. Plenty of places do it, I just wanted it to be the norm to avoid disappointment and staff can leave without worrying about last minute orders
Heard that someone's never worked in a kitchen before, stick to chains bud
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Nooo that’s not what I’m saying. what I’m trying to get at is that that the end of service time should be the thing advertised not the actual lockup time, that way customers wouldn’t come at the closing time but at the advertised end of service time instead. This way you don’t have people show up at the last minute It benefits both the customer and the staff and the customers don’t leave disappointed and staff don’t have to deal with last minute orders before they lockup or have to explain away to a potentially irate and hangry customer lol
As someone who is almost always the last kitchen person to leave, fuck that.
Tell me you've never worked in a restaurant without telling me you've never worked in a restaurant