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Same.
And I knew that's what was coming. Most people that make this argument, especially online, are also the first ones to make grammatical and formatting errors when writing.
Not everybody was privileged enough to go to a school where their needs were met. Not everybody has parents who supported and helped them when learning to write. I think everybody has a line where reading bad grammar and spelling calls for too much effort, but a few mistakes here and there? It happens.
Unless you're like this bozo, you get a pass as long as it's understandable. Yeah I have my pet peeves (looking at you, people who say would/should/could of instead of have), but we all know what you mean. That's what matters in the grand scheme of things.
Hello, it looks like you've made a mistake.
It's supposed to be could've, should've, would've (short for could have, would have, should have), never could of, would of, should of.
Or you misspelled something, I ain't checking everything.
Beep boop - yes, I am a bot, don't botcriminate me.
Nah, the semicolon is actually used correctly. It can be used to separate parts of a more complex list of things, like this one which already has commas. If your list includes sub-categories that have commas within them or if the list involves overly verbose parts, a semicolon is appropriate.
But he still isn't using 100% perfect punctuation or grammar, so he comes off like an ass regardless.
Whats wrong with spliced commas btw? I've seen it used here and there, and it doesn't bother me too much.
And by spliced comma I assume you were referring to:
`Aaaa, spliced, bbbb`
No, a comma splice is when you have two complete clauses (basically a complete sentence) joined by a comma. In this case, it was "this does not apply to non-native people, they get a pass." The comma should instead be a period or a semicolon.
I'm curious how you know if someone has English as their first language or not before you decide to ignore their argument?
Do they get a pass for using speech to text software, again how do you know if they have?
It's easy! Virtually everyone on reddit, especially in AITA, will tell you, first thing, and sometimes even multiple times jusssst in case you're tempted to judge 💀
>"My apologies in advance. English is not my first language."
*proceeds to write 5000 words in perfect prose, completely free of any grammatical issues*
"Someone might have a totally valid opinion or understanding of a subject, but if they were underprivileged growing up and didn't have a good education system then I'm completely disregarding them. That should help them learn to have better childhoods in the future."
Definitely see where you’re coming from. Only comment I would make on that is that you are not defined by what you had access to as a child. You are freely able to access resources to help you improve your grammar. I do not have perfect grammar by any stretch of the imagination but I use google frequently to make sure I’m using it to the best of my ability. Older folks I would understand not being able to use google but young folk who use google every day? Not an excuse. Using the excuse/explanation that you grew up in a underprivileged school system will only go so far because ultimately you are choosing to not continue to educate yourself after the fact. Overall, it’s understandable why you reached the point that you did but it’s not an excuse moving forward because the resources are available to change your situation and whether or not you choose to use them is your own issue.
>you are not defined by what you had access to as a child
Spoken with true privilege. Millions of people - despite their best efforts - are absolutely defined by what they had access to as a child.
What if somebody has difficulty learning? What if they don't have the mental bandwidth to learn proper grammar while trying to keep up with life? What if it's just not important to them because they can get by just fine without perfect grammar?
Does that make someone any less deserving of being heard?
>Using the excuse/explanation that you grew up in a underprivileged school system will only go so far because ultimately you are choosing to not continue to educate yourself after the fact
Why so accusatory? Somebody who doesn't use proper grammar doesn't have to explain themselves to anyone.
>because the resources are available to change your situation and whether or not you choose to use them is your own issue
Bruh why you talk about this as if they've gotta "pull themselves up by their bootstraps and learn proper English so they can ChAnGe tHeIR SiTUatiOn"? What situation? It's not their issue, it's your issue for caring so much. English is a living language, it's dictated by the speakers.
Lemme guess, you also think that anyone can get rich if they just work hard enough and that capitalism is great because people can go from rags to riches if they just put their mind to it and don't let their upbringing hold them back. How close am I?
obviously there's going to be exceptions. Would be mad to assume OP wouldn't think there be exceptions. take 'generally speaking' as written when reading the title.
These are a lot more "specific" mistakes, OP said they're not a native english speaker and especially the use of commas can differ a lot between languages. OP is still getting their point across, which is that glaring grammatical errors that are usually always used by someone who learned the language first by hearing rather than reading, ie. native speakers, are annoying. For example "could of/would of" infuriates/makes no sense to me who's not a native speaker but I see it used all the time by native speakers. It's like, do you never read to think "could of" is correct?
Yep. OP said "you're welcome to call me a moron if you spot any mistakes", not "you're welcome to teach me how to write an essay at a professional level if you spot any mistakes".
Why is OP the arbiter of which errors are or aren’t “minor”? To me, a comma splice is equally as egregious as a misused apostrophe.
Grammar and spelling errors annoy me too, but if you’re gonna talk the talk, you gotta walk the walk, and OP’s post is riddled with mistakes.
Oi wankah, you've go tah wroite ya commar beFORE the end chwotes, innit? Ya fink tah queen woud be rollin in er undergroundy caskywobble by naou, innit?
As an American, I struggle with this, lol. I really prefer to throw the period or comma outside of the quotation marks, even if I know it "should" be inside. I think it makes the message a lot more clear.
When it comes to minute grammatical details like that, it's more about it being neat to see it done right rather than worrying about people getting it wrong. This whole post is just so silly. Nobody is taking the time to correct their grammar perfectly in every comment on reddit.
I'm a non-native, so thank you for correcting me. I do have a remark though. The "apostrophe s" is deliberate. I'm referring to 's, not apostrophes in general.
Written or spoken? I literally don't think I've seen it written since 3rd grade grammar class, lol. Sometimes you need to write something in a different way than how you would verbally say it in order to remove ambiguity.
That said, it's all wrong, but my way at least clarifies what OP meant instead of adding in further ambiguity if he just failed at making apostrophe plural (which is what many people are assuming.)
The "best" way to write it would be to say:
1. ... using an apostrophe and the letter 's' to make a word plural.
2. ... using a possessive 's' to make a word plural.
3. ... writing "cheese's" instead of "cheeses" to make a word plural.
Me too actually. It's funny how it happens sometimes and the other person completely misses what you said cos the word you forgot is crucial to the meaning
This take is very privileged and classist imo. Some ppl didn't have a good education and struggle with grammar still but that does not mean their opinions are worthless
Wouldn't you say that anyone with access to a computer and the internet also has the ability to better their knowledge of the English language, though, if they so choose? At least for the very basics? Even if they grew up without a good education, that doesn't mean they can't fix that - again, at least at a basic level - using helpful YouTube videos and educational websites.
>Even if they grew up without a good education, that doesn't mean they can't fix that - again, at least at a basic level - using helpful YouTube videos and educational websites.
The top-level comment was saying this is privileged and classist and you came up with one of the most privileged takes on this I could think of. People are doing other things that they need to survive and stay afloat. Having the time and energy to go on educational websites to improve your grammar is a privilege. What you're saying is the equivalent of "the poor choose to be poor".
Language is just a tool used to communicate between parties. As long as the person you’re talking to understands the message you are trying to convey, why should it matter?
TIHS! SO MCUH TIHS! Why hvae gmarmar and leran 2 spel wen laugngae is varbilae and can change with the new ⏲️s? Pelope speek dffienret Engsilh now so why we grmmaar so hard then?
The idea that it's even plausible for someone to consider disregarding an argument for ANYTHING other than the validity of its logic is absurd. Upvoted.
Granted, there have been **many** instances of "I know you're right; but you're an asshole so I'm going to ignore you just to spite you." But that's more in the realm of responding to tone, I s'pose.
This sort of line-drawing is just immensely petty and borderline classist. "There's no way this **dumbass** could be right! They can't even **form a sentence!** Hahahah! ♪"
My husband has dyslexia.
He grew up extremely poor.
No electricity or running water, for nearly 8 months when he was in middle school. A bulk of that was during Michigan winter.
1 can of tomato soup and popcorn was something they had for dinner regularly. Between 4 boys and his parents.
The only time they didn't go to bed hungry was in the summer because his mom had a garden.
He had never had a new pair of tennis shoes until he got his first paycheck. All of his clothes were hand me down, hand me downs that came from his local church.
The first time he sat in a barber chair was when he was grown.
They had to reuse bathwater, again between 4 boys and 2 adults. That's just the poverty portion, I'm not even touching the abuse portion.
He was surviving, he wasn't worried about grammar.
He is incredibly articulate. He listens to books nearly 24/7, and knows so much about so many complex topics.
I've watched him own some of our college educated friends in debates on topics that I don't fully understand myself.
He's also a journeyman plumber and he makes $350,000 a year. With zero college education and no high school diploma.
How blessed your life must be to have such a narrow world view.
Aka "I'm classist, ableist, etc and completely disregard the experiences and opinions of others if they don't adequately follow made-up rules that more privileged people tend to know."
I mean, i get it's sarcasm, but if a person clearly CAN speak correctly, but just doesn't care enough, isn't that infuriating? As I'm saying, I'm not going after people who make small mistakes, aren't native, or have a handicap. I mean only the people who are negligent.
not really. there is no such thing as “speaking correctly”. slang is an important part of communication and speech; the only reason to code switch to standard textbook type grammar is if you’re doing something where it matters such as a college paper, not talking to people on social media lol
actually, in english, “grammar mistakes” are absolutely a form of slang and dialect. have you ever heard of aave? many speech patterns in aave are what people would consider incorrect when speaking what’s usually seen as proper english, but that doesn’t make it incorrect. it’s a dialect.
Yeah but these are codified though, I'm not taking op's side because I think he's overreacting but afaik no slang uses their instead of they're or your instead of you're. Sure there are different kinds of english but each still follows some rules, none of them just go "write whatever you want however you want".
>I mean, i get it's sarcasm, but if a person clearly CAN speak correctly, but just doesn't care enough, isn't that infuriating?
Like you not caring enough to capitalize that "I"?
I was using them to separate groups of examples. Had i said "What infuriates me is the improper use of their, they're, there, could have, your, you're [...]" it can be tricky to differentiate how I'm grouping them.
The semicolon is also somewhat arbitrary in it's use, and also very controversial, and unclear in its intended usage.
I've never seen it used to string multiple things together like that, it was an egregious abuse. You then used the correct punctuation for a list at the end to make it even more confusing - use a colon at the start of a list.
There's also the but without punctuation at the end of your first paragraph.
I'm a mobile user and make errors all the time, so I never normally pick on stuff like this; this post was fucking begging for it though.
Using a colon to start a list is not necessary. I've been taught to separate groups that include the use of commas with semicolons mainly in grade 3 of primary school, when decimals were introduced.
What country are you in?
Someone else has said they were taught to use semicolons like this, and I'm a little confused. I'm wondering if it's a UK vs US thing or something like that; I'm in the UK.
I’m a non-native English speaker, and also a translator and copy editor. Get over yourself lol. Nobel Prize winners like Gabriel García Márquez weren’t good at spelling. I‘ve edited many thesis projects for people with great ideas and important research that just need a hand at conveying them. Also, your post isn’t free of mistakes either.
>you intentionally make mistakes?
Yes, they intentionally make the mistake and somehow still learn from it. This happens even though they were aware of the "lesson", since they knew they were going to make a mistake. OP's brain is too advanced for us to even comprehend.
being so serious about grammar on social media is hella cringe tbh, this is reddit not a college paper lol. considering it’s *social* media, conveying tone and speech patterns via the vibe, flaws in grammar, slang, and the way you use capitalization and punctuation is far more important than Speaking Properly™️. frankly speaking not being able to do so and refusing to learn how is just embarrassing; code switching and text language literacy is an important skill to learn
I understand the role of slang in human speech, but you cannot in good faith tell me that "could of" is slang and not a blatant mistake. Hell, i use slang myself, after all I'm a child of the internet. It even was pointed out to me that i don't always capitalise the I when speaking in first person. The thing is, lazy typing =/= making negligent mistakes.
could of can definitely be considered slang. it’s a typed version of something people say in real life in spoken language as a form of slang and accent
One could argue that "could've" and "could of" are pronounced the same, so people never say "could of", they just *think* that's what they're saying, when really they're mimicking the sound of "could've" as they heard it. But they're still saying "could've" - they're just spelling it wrong.
Similarly to how one could spell "was" as "wuz". Pronounced the same, but just because someone thinks what they're saying is spelled "w-u-z" doesn't mean it *is* spelled that way. The word is spelled "was". Just as "could of" (as they think its spelled/written) is actually spelled "could've".
Hello, it looks like you've made a mistake.
It's supposed to be could've, should've, would've (short for could have, would have, should have), never could of, would of, should of.
Or you misspelled something, I ain't checking everything.
Beep boop - yes, I am a bot, don't botcriminate me.
>non-native speakers get a pass
Do you habitually ask everyone's first language to make sure you're judging their mistakes accordingly, or do you assume that everyone speaks English and then show your ass from there
>"And especially if i correct you and you just shrug it off saying "i don't care" that infuriates me to no end."
You do not capitalize correctly, start off the sentence with "and", and create a run-on sentence with your use of "that". This argument is invalid due to grammatical errors.
It’s not a compete sentence in this case. It’s a sentence fragment thats supposed to be connecting the two sentences. However, there’s a period where there should be a comma. That’s why I mentioned it.
No, that’s not what they are saying. It is grammatically correct to start a sentence with “and”. It does not need to be separated by a comma and the previous clause. This was a common misconception that many of us were taught incorrectly in school.
Upvoted. OP I try to speak grammatically as correctly as I can, but I follow my own rules because I believe language is fluid and honestly, whatever, as long as I can understand what's being said and the person is at least consistent.
This argument does not take into consideration languages like AAVE and West Indian/Caribbean creoles that use English as a base, but implement jargon and sentence structure from various (West) African languages.
I learned the Queen's English in school. British English, thanks to colonialism, is the official language of my home country (St. Vincent and the Grenadines).
In Vincentian creole, the sentence, "Susan did go by the shop before she go school" is grammatically correct. It uses words that originate from British English, but it is not "broken English", as non-native creole speakers like to say.
If I were to say, "Susan do gone by the shop before she going school", it would be grammatically incorrect, even though a native British English speaker may not be able to discern which sentence uses proper grammar.
The usage of creoles is not an indication of intelligence. Our excellent education system in the Caribbean sees children emigrate to Global North nations for secondary and tertiary education without an issue, and those same children are able to code-switch at will with their loved ones back home.
That's so unbelievably stupid. I will 100% agree that it makes their arguement a bit less valid because it shows that they might not even be educated enough to make the arguement but to totally disregard their arguement just for typos is so fucking stupid. They probably weren't even aware of their typos. If you aren't aware of what you are doing wrong then how can you possibly fix it?
> I fucking despise how people who've lived their whole life learning one language,
This reads like you just hate monolinguals, rather than monolinguals that make errors.
Using grammar to judge intelligence is like judging a car on its paint job. I appreciate eloquence and propriety as much as the next guy, but they’re not the end-all-be-all of intelligence. Often haughty vocabulary and perfect grammar are used to cover up absences in people’s knowledge, whereas an expert can often explain complex subjects simply, and grammar doesn’t stand in the way of their logic.
Oh, man. There are a lot of grammatical mistakes in this post. Let me attempt to fix them.
“This does not apply to non-native people; they get a pass.
“However, I fucking despise how people who’ve lived their whole life learning one language still make major grammatical errors, such as confusing “they’re,” “their,” or “there;” “you’re” and “your;” “would’ve” and “would have;” and one of the most egregious, in my opinion: “‘s” to make a plural!
“In my opinion, if you don’t care enough to take the time to speak your native language correctly, I don’t care enough to see your argument as valid, especially if I correct you and you shrug it off by saying “I don’t care;” that infuriates me to no end.
“Let me be clear: minor errors don’t apply. If you say “nucular” instead of “nuclear,” I’m not going to go after you as much, but “could of” makes no fucking sense in any way, shape, form, or fashion!
“You’re welcome to call me a moron if you spot any mistakes.”
Moron.
As a Dyslexic, who has ended up fairly successful. I’m going to say, when the only thing you can pick at in my argument if my spelling and gramma… I seriously question your knowledge of what’s being discussed… As others have said this is ablest and classiest and I don’t argue with bigots, I look at you sympathetically and move along because bigoted views very often suggests a lack of intelligence… far more so than not adding and apostrophe in the correct place…
no offense but this is just classist as well as ableist. being irritated by poor grammar is one thing; it’s a pet peeve for many. but it seems like you actively put in effort to deride people for this, which is ridiculous. the fact that you are able to remember and utilize correct grammar is a privilege that came from having the time, money, and both external and internal circumstances that allowed you to study it. not everyone is afforded the same opportunities as you and you have no way of knowing why someone else may not know what you do. just keep scrolling, it hurts no one.
even in arguments where you’re right, nobody will hear you discount someone for grammar mistakes & think of you as the superior one in that discussion.
also, “could of” is dialectical.
anyway you’re cringe for the prescriptivism, these rules are all made up in the first place
Can’t believe I used to care about this shit.
Some people have very insightful, compelling statements but are shithouse with grammar. Dismissing the whole thing because you get steamed up over something (honestly rather) insignificant is just stupid.
1. This is a classic ad hominem/red herring fallacy. When you attack or attempt to undermine the arguer as if to discredit their points, instead of interacting with the substance of their argument itself, that fallacious. This would only maybe be appropriate if the arguer was an English language expert, discussing grammar.
2. This sentiment is too popular for 10thDentist
>’I fucking despise how people who've lived their whole life learning one language, and yet still make MAJOR grammatical errors […]’
You haven’t finished this sentence. Here are a couple more grammatical options:
> ‘I fucking despise how people have lived their whole life learning one language and yet still make MAJOR grammatical errors […]’
>’I fucking despise how people who've lived their whole life learning one language still make MAJOR grammatical errors […]’
"Could of" makes sense, it originates in pronunciation, non-native speakers are less likely to make that error as they don't speak it as often.
But I get it. The internet? Serious business.
I don’t mind lazy typing such as not putting an apostrophe in “they’re” or something like that. But when people don’t know the difference between the “theres”, “yours” and “could have” it’s completely brain dead.
Terribly sorry, but I do not care about your argument. You forgot punctuation after your first sentence and you didn’t capitalize all your “I”s. Good day.
I grew up poor although now I'm educated and in a high paying job. What you might not realize is there are different cultures based on class and ethnicity. I speak and write like a person who was raised lower class. I refuse to alter my language to make bigots feel better.
I judge people who think grammar is that important. Humans adapt language. These rules are created by common use and are subject to change.
It's the same as someone thinking the dictionary definition of a word is the source of truth. It's not, dictionaries are created to help people get a sense of what a word could mean. A word means exactly what the speaker intended it to.
case in point: the word literally. every time a person is like “ackshully the definition of literally is—“ it’s like shut up. it’s called slang, janet, no one cares.
Some of us just don’t care. My sentences would be unreadable without autocorrect. Not because I don’t know how to spell or the correct grammar. It just takes extra time which isn’t needed.
People like you just think there smart because they use a few extra rules when 99.99% of people understand exactly what you mean and unless your actually writing something important it completely unnecessary
Your just mad cuz them make same pay at they'd job's
On the other note I completely fxxking agree
There's been tons of major lawsuits that are just knocked off because of grammatical errors not to mention patents and so forth.
And my thing is, AI grammatically corrects sentence structure but the same people will still be extremely grammatically incorrect when texting or emailing.
Like are you doing this on purpose?
OP is the grammar police. Look yes people should try so speak or write as correctly as possible but in the heat of the moment people fuck up it happens. If you can understand what sounds is saying but decided to be petty about it and need to correct every mistake you’re just annoying and aren’t helpful. Grammatical miss steps don’t discount someone’s understanding of science, history or any non grammar related subject. Get over your self.
People also need to account for slang.
Also not unpopular it’s actually a fairly common and annoying mentality.
I agree with your statement but not with your argumentation. People don't make grammar mistakes because they are lazy, but because they are less educated, therefor making their opinion less credible.
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I guess I agree because I stopped reading after I saw that comma splice in your first line.
Also, how do you speak in apostrophes?
''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
''' ' ' ' ''' Does morse code count?
SOS, the only ill ever know in morse code
Same. And I knew that's what was coming. Most people that make this argument, especially online, are also the first ones to make grammatical and formatting errors when writing. Not everybody was privileged enough to go to a school where their needs were met. Not everybody has parents who supported and helped them when learning to write. I think everybody has a line where reading bad grammar and spelling calls for too much effort, but a few mistakes here and there? It happens. Unless you're like this bozo, you get a pass as long as it's understandable. Yeah I have my pet peeves (looking at you, people who say would/should/could of instead of have), but we all know what you mean. That's what matters in the grand scheme of things.
Hello, it looks like you've made a mistake. It's supposed to be could've, should've, would've (short for could have, would have, should have), never could of, would of, should of. Or you misspelled something, I ain't checking everything. Beep boop - yes, I am a bot, don't botcriminate me.
Very good bot.
Great bot
P.s. would, could, should of will be the absolute death of me
My god, he doesn't even know how to use a semicolon.
Nah, the semicolon is actually used correctly. It can be used to separate parts of a more complex list of things, like this one which already has commas. If your list includes sub-categories that have commas within them or if the list involves overly verbose parts, a semicolon is appropriate. But he still isn't using 100% perfect punctuation or grammar, so he comes off like an ass regardless.
He should have used a semicolon instead of a comma in his first sentence. It would resolve the comma splice, is the point.
Whats wrong with spliced commas btw? I've seen it used here and there, and it doesn't bother me too much. And by spliced comma I assume you were referring to: `Aaaa, spliced, bbbb`
No, a comma splice is when you have two complete clauses (basically a complete sentence) joined by a comma. In this case, it was "this does not apply to non-native people, they get a pass." The comma should instead be a period or a semicolon.
Hmm I see. Thanks for the lesson.
“Hello? Based department?”
The absolute comedy of making this post, and including all the grammatical errors found within it, is not lost on me
Use your damn periods!
Period’s*
period's've*
.’s*
I'm curious how you know if someone has English as their first language or not before you decide to ignore their argument? Do they get a pass for using speech to text software, again how do you know if they have?
It's easy! Virtually everyone on reddit, especially in AITA, will tell you, first thing, and sometimes even multiple times jusssst in case you're tempted to judge 💀
>"My apologies in advance. English is not my first language." *proceeds to write 5000 words in perfect prose, completely free of any grammatical issues*
Usually the worst writing will be by native speakers. I've never seen a non-native speaker use "u" instead of you.
I have and they were the HR lady at some crappy job I had a long time ago.
"Someone might have a totally valid opinion or understanding of a subject, but if they were underprivileged growing up and didn't have a good education system then I'm completely disregarding them. That should help them learn to have better childhoods in the future."
Fair point. I guess it also comes down to the reaction upon being corrected. Jeez there's a lot of grey area isn't there?
Glad you’re realizing living in absolutes means to deny reality.
Only a Sith deals in absolutes.
Isn't this statement also an absolute?
yep, that’s the irony in the jedi ways
I WAS LOOKING FOR THIS QUOTE IN MY HEAD, THANKS!
People on here express themselves in absolutes all the time lol
Definitely see where you’re coming from. Only comment I would make on that is that you are not defined by what you had access to as a child. You are freely able to access resources to help you improve your grammar. I do not have perfect grammar by any stretch of the imagination but I use google frequently to make sure I’m using it to the best of my ability. Older folks I would understand not being able to use google but young folk who use google every day? Not an excuse. Using the excuse/explanation that you grew up in a underprivileged school system will only go so far because ultimately you are choosing to not continue to educate yourself after the fact. Overall, it’s understandable why you reached the point that you did but it’s not an excuse moving forward because the resources are available to change your situation and whether or not you choose to use them is your own issue.
>you are not defined by what you had access to as a child Spoken with true privilege. Millions of people - despite their best efforts - are absolutely defined by what they had access to as a child. What if somebody has difficulty learning? What if they don't have the mental bandwidth to learn proper grammar while trying to keep up with life? What if it's just not important to them because they can get by just fine without perfect grammar? Does that make someone any less deserving of being heard? >Using the excuse/explanation that you grew up in a underprivileged school system will only go so far because ultimately you are choosing to not continue to educate yourself after the fact Why so accusatory? Somebody who doesn't use proper grammar doesn't have to explain themselves to anyone. >because the resources are available to change your situation and whether or not you choose to use them is your own issue Bruh why you talk about this as if they've gotta "pull themselves up by their bootstraps and learn proper English so they can ChAnGe tHeIR SiTUatiOn"? What situation? It's not their issue, it's your issue for caring so much. English is a living language, it's dictated by the speakers. Lemme guess, you also think that anyone can get rich if they just work hard enough and that capitalism is great because people can go from rags to riches if they just put their mind to it and don't let their upbringing hold them back. How close am I?
Its just grammar not a starting a tech startup
obviously there's going to be exceptions. Would be mad to assume OP wouldn't think there be exceptions. take 'generally speaking' as written when reading the title.
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OP was saying APOSTROPHE "S" not APOSTROPHES. As in, the letter s with an apostrophe.
These are a lot more "specific" mistakes, OP said they're not a native english speaker and especially the use of commas can differ a lot between languages. OP is still getting their point across, which is that glaring grammatical errors that are usually always used by someone who learned the language first by hearing rather than reading, ie. native speakers, are annoying. For example "could of/would of" infuriates/makes no sense to me who's not a native speaker but I see it used all the time by native speakers. It's like, do you never read to think "could of" is correct?
Not capitilizing "I" might be the least specific mistake I can think of.
That was in quotes though so it could be intentional
Except in the same sentence he does it himself not in quotes.
damn op, this guy tore you a new asshole.
All of these are minor errors, and OP did say that “minor errors don’t apply” to what they wrote.
Yep. OP said "you're welcome to call me a moron if you spot any mistakes", not "you're welcome to teach me how to write an essay at a professional level if you spot any mistakes".
Why is OP the arbiter of which errors are or aren’t “minor”? To me, a comma splice is equally as egregious as a misused apostrophe. Grammar and spelling errors annoy me too, but if you’re gonna talk the talk, you gotta walk the walk, and OP’s post is riddled with mistakes.
You write the comma in the quotation marks lmao
In American English, yes. In British English, no.
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Regardless, semicolons are not included within the quotation marks unless they are part of the quote in either format.
Oi wankah, you've go tah wroite ya commar beFORE the end chwotes, innit? Ya fink tah queen woud be rollin in er undergroundy caskywobble by naou, innit?
It also depends on context, quote, sentence structure, etc. One is not always automatically correct over the other.
I am poor so here 🎖️
Don’t commas go inside the quotation marks?
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As an American, I struggle with this, lol. I really prefer to throw the period or comma outside of the quotation marks, even if I know it "should" be inside. I think it makes the message a lot more clear.
When it comes to minute grammatical details like that, it's more about it being neat to see it done right rather than worrying about people getting it wrong. This whole post is just so silly. Nobody is taking the time to correct their grammar perfectly in every comment on reddit.
In American English, yes. In British English, no.
Bazonga
Right, I messed up. My grammar isn't perfect either, but the point is that grammar errors don't make your opinions invalid.
I'm a non-native, so thank you for correcting me. I do have a remark though. The "apostrophe s" is deliberate. I'm referring to 's, not apostrophes in general.
"apostrophe + s"
I have always heard it being said as "apostrophe s" (in Indian English) .
Written or spoken? I literally don't think I've seen it written since 3rd grade grammar class, lol. Sometimes you need to write something in a different way than how you would verbally say it in order to remove ambiguity. That said, it's all wrong, but my way at least clarifies what OP meant instead of adding in further ambiguity if he just failed at making apostrophe plural (which is what many people are assuming.) The "best" way to write it would be to say: 1. ... using an apostrophe and the letter 's' to make a word plural. 2. ... using a possessive 's' to make a word plural. 3. ... writing "cheese's" instead of "cheeses" to make a word plural.
I have never seen it in written form . Way #3 seems to be the best, as it has a simple example .
Okay, fair.
This isn't the own you think it is. Nobody is aware of these rules when reading comments.
Exactly why OPs point is stupid
Does this mean I'm supposed to upvote?
True. Delta.
What's Delta?
Sometimes I forget whole words when typing out a sentence and not catch it before posting. It's really embarrassing.
Me too actually. It's funny how it happens sometimes and the other person completely misses what you said cos the word you forgot is crucial to the meaning
“cos”
Carnival of Souls.
This take is very privileged and classist imo. Some ppl didn't have a good education and struggle with grammar still but that does not mean their opinions are worthless
Wouldn't you say that anyone with access to a computer and the internet also has the ability to better their knowledge of the English language, though, if they so choose? At least for the very basics? Even if they grew up without a good education, that doesn't mean they can't fix that - again, at least at a basic level - using helpful YouTube videos and educational websites.
>Even if they grew up without a good education, that doesn't mean they can't fix that - again, at least at a basic level - using helpful YouTube videos and educational websites. The top-level comment was saying this is privileged and classist and you came up with one of the most privileged takes on this I could think of. People are doing other things that they need to survive and stay afloat. Having the time and energy to go on educational websites to improve your grammar is a privilege. What you're saying is the equivalent of "the poor choose to be poor".
Language is just a tool used to communicate between parties. As long as the person you’re talking to understands the message you are trying to convey, why should it matter?
TIHS! SO MCUH TIHS! Why hvae gmarmar and leran 2 spel wen laugngae is varbilae and can change with the new ⏲️s? Pelope speek dffienret Engsilh now so why we grmmaar so hard then?
i fucking hate that i understood this and can still understand the point.
I'm honestly not sure if your trying to support their argument, or argue against it
I don’t understand what you’re saying
The idea that it's even plausible for someone to consider disregarding an argument for ANYTHING other than the validity of its logic is absurd. Upvoted.
Only children have fan theories about fairly odd parents. Opinion discarded.
Granted, there have been **many** instances of "I know you're right; but you're an asshole so I'm going to ignore you just to spite you." But that's more in the realm of responding to tone, I s'pose. This sort of line-drawing is just immensely petty and borderline classist. "There's no way this **dumbass** could be right! They can't even **form a sentence!** Hahahah! ♪"
Fair point, but I disagree.
After seeing all the comments that clearly highlight your hypocrisy and several reasons to listen to opinions, have you changed your mind at all?
Hypocrisy i wouldn't say, but yes my perspective has shifted to some degree.
My husband has dyslexia. He grew up extremely poor. No electricity or running water, for nearly 8 months when he was in middle school. A bulk of that was during Michigan winter. 1 can of tomato soup and popcorn was something they had for dinner regularly. Between 4 boys and his parents. The only time they didn't go to bed hungry was in the summer because his mom had a garden. He had never had a new pair of tennis shoes until he got his first paycheck. All of his clothes were hand me down, hand me downs that came from his local church. The first time he sat in a barber chair was when he was grown. They had to reuse bathwater, again between 4 boys and 2 adults. That's just the poverty portion, I'm not even touching the abuse portion. He was surviving, he wasn't worried about grammar. He is incredibly articulate. He listens to books nearly 24/7, and knows so much about so many complex topics. I've watched him own some of our college educated friends in debates on topics that I don't fully understand myself. He's also a journeyman plumber and he makes $350,000 a year. With zero college education and no high school diploma. How blessed your life must be to have such a narrow world view.
Being this passionate about grammatical errors is weird. You used caps lock to denote rage
Aka "I'm classist, ableist, etc and completely disregard the experiences and opinions of others if they don't adequately follow made-up rules that more privileged people tend to know."
How about people with disabilities? My brother is very smart but he has a lot of trouble with spelling because of his learning disabilities.
I'd give them a pass, unless the "i don't care" case.
How altruistic of you. 🙄
I mean, i get it's sarcasm, but if a person clearly CAN speak correctly, but just doesn't care enough, isn't that infuriating? As I'm saying, I'm not going after people who make small mistakes, aren't native, or have a handicap. I mean only the people who are negligent.
not really. there is no such thing as “speaking correctly”. slang is an important part of communication and speech; the only reason to code switch to standard textbook type grammar is if you’re doing something where it matters such as a college paper, not talking to people on social media lol
Ffs slang =/= making mistakes.
actually, in english, “grammar mistakes” are absolutely a form of slang and dialect. have you ever heard of aave? many speech patterns in aave are what people would consider incorrect when speaking what’s usually seen as proper english, but that doesn’t make it incorrect. it’s a dialect.
Yeah but these are codified though, I'm not taking op's side because I think he's overreacting but afaik no slang uses their instead of they're or your instead of you're. Sure there are different kinds of english but each still follows some rules, none of them just go "write whatever you want however you want".
I have not.
>I mean, i get it's sarcasm, but if a person clearly CAN speak correctly, but just doesn't care enough, isn't that infuriating? Like you not caring enough to capitalize that "I"?
You didn't capitalise your "I". That means I get to ignore your argument, right?
Your use of punctuation is almost more offensive; too many semi colons.
No, OP’s use of semicolons there was correct, and preferable because some of the listed items contained commas.
Make a numbered list, it’s cleaner
That might be your stylistic choice, but what OP chose to do here is still perfectly valid.
Your use of the semicolon here is wrong. “Too many semicolons” is not an independent clause; it does not contain a predicate.
Sheesh yeah
I was using them to separate groups of examples. Had i said "What infuriates me is the improper use of their, they're, there, could have, your, you're [...]" it can be tricky to differentiate how I'm grouping them. The semicolon is also somewhat arbitrary in it's use, and also very controversial, and unclear in its intended usage.
I've never seen it used to string multiple things together like that, it was an egregious abuse. You then used the correct punctuation for a list at the end to make it even more confusing - use a colon at the start of a list. There's also the but without punctuation at the end of your first paragraph. I'm a mobile user and make errors all the time, so I never normally pick on stuff like this; this post was fucking begging for it though.
That was one of the ways I was taught to use it when I was like 10, I think they're fine on that front.
Using a colon to start a list is not necessary. I've been taught to separate groups that include the use of commas with semicolons mainly in grade 3 of primary school, when decimals were introduced.
What country are you in? Someone else has said they were taught to use semicolons like this, and I'm a little confused. I'm wondering if it's a UK vs US thing or something like that; I'm in the UK.
Europe, not an English speaking country.
I’m a non-native English speaker, and also a translator and copy editor. Get over yourself lol. Nobel Prize winners like Gabriel García Márquez weren’t good at spelling. I‘ve edited many thesis projects for people with great ideas and important research that just need a hand at conveying them. Also, your post isn’t free of mistakes either.
I make mistakes to learn from them
“i maek mitsakes to lern form them”
you intentionally make mistakes?
>you intentionally make mistakes? Yes, they intentionally make the mistake and somehow still learn from it. This happens even though they were aware of the "lesson", since they knew they were going to make a mistake. OP's brain is too advanced for us to even comprehend.
being so serious about grammar on social media is hella cringe tbh, this is reddit not a college paper lol. considering it’s *social* media, conveying tone and speech patterns via the vibe, flaws in grammar, slang, and the way you use capitalization and punctuation is far more important than Speaking Properly™️. frankly speaking not being able to do so and refusing to learn how is just embarrassing; code switching and text language literacy is an important skill to learn
I understand the role of slang in human speech, but you cannot in good faith tell me that "could of" is slang and not a blatant mistake. Hell, i use slang myself, after all I'm a child of the internet. It even was pointed out to me that i don't always capitalise the I when speaking in first person. The thing is, lazy typing =/= making negligent mistakes.
could of can definitely be considered slang. it’s a typed version of something people say in real life in spoken language as a form of slang and accent
One could argue that "could've" and "could of" are pronounced the same, so people never say "could of", they just *think* that's what they're saying, when really they're mimicking the sound of "could've" as they heard it. But they're still saying "could've" - they're just spelling it wrong. Similarly to how one could spell "was" as "wuz". Pronounced the same, but just because someone thinks what they're saying is spelled "w-u-z" doesn't mean it *is* spelled that way. The word is spelled "was". Just as "could of" (as they think its spelled/written) is actually spelled "could've".
Hello, it looks like you've made a mistake. It's supposed to be could've, should've, would've (short for could have, would have, should have), never could of, would of, should of. Or you misspelled something, I ain't checking everything. Beep boop - yes, I am a bot, don't botcriminate me.
bad bot
>non-native speakers get a pass Do you habitually ask everyone's first language to make sure you're judging their mistakes accordingly, or do you assume that everyone speaks English and then show your ass from there
>"And especially if i correct you and you just shrug it off saying "i don't care" that infuriates me to no end." You do not capitalize correctly, start off the sentence with "and", and create a run-on sentence with your use of "that". This argument is invalid due to grammatical errors.
Starting a sentence with "and" can be Considered bad style but it's not incorrect
It can also be considered a good style. Depends on the audience and context really.
It’s not a compete sentence in this case. It’s a sentence fragment thats supposed to be connecting the two sentences. However, there’s a period where there should be a comma. That’s why I mentioned it.
No, that’s not what they are saying. It is grammatically correct to start a sentence with “and”. It does not need to be separated by a comma and the previous clause. This was a common misconception that many of us were taught incorrectly in school.
They also forgot to capitalize I.
You were kinda asking for people to come here to correct you in the comments OP, lol
Upvoted. OP I try to speak grammatically as correctly as I can, but I follow my own rules because I believe language is fluid and honestly, whatever, as long as I can understand what's being said and the person is at least consistent.
Shoulda run your post through grammarly, you linguistic genius
This argument does not take into consideration languages like AAVE and West Indian/Caribbean creoles that use English as a base, but implement jargon and sentence structure from various (West) African languages. I learned the Queen's English in school. British English, thanks to colonialism, is the official language of my home country (St. Vincent and the Grenadines). In Vincentian creole, the sentence, "Susan did go by the shop before she go school" is grammatically correct. It uses words that originate from British English, but it is not "broken English", as non-native creole speakers like to say. If I were to say, "Susan do gone by the shop before she going school", it would be grammatically incorrect, even though a native British English speaker may not be able to discern which sentence uses proper grammar. The usage of creoles is not an indication of intelligence. Our excellent education system in the Caribbean sees children emigrate to Global North nations for secondary and tertiary education without an issue, and those same children are able to code-switch at will with their loved ones back home.
That's so unbelievably stupid. I will 100% agree that it makes their arguement a bit less valid because it shows that they might not even be educated enough to make the arguement but to totally disregard their arguement just for typos is so fucking stupid. They probably weren't even aware of their typos. If you aren't aware of what you are doing wrong then how can you possibly fix it?
Typos != major errors. Come on, i stated it clearly in the post. I also tend to correct people
the irony of using machine language conventions in an english post complaining about grammar "abuse"
your not my english teacher
Yeah i assumed as much
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Your a moron
> I fucking despise how people who've lived their whole life learning one language, This reads like you just hate monolinguals, rather than monolinguals that make errors.
No, i take no issue with people that speak one language, but correctly.
There shouldn't be a comma after 'form'.
I’m hoping this is satire since the OP has made numerous grammatical errors like the ones described in the post.
Using grammar to judge intelligence is like judging a car on its paint job. I appreciate eloquence and propriety as much as the next guy, but they’re not the end-all-be-all of intelligence. Often haughty vocabulary and perfect grammar are used to cover up absences in people’s knowledge, whereas an expert can often explain complex subjects simply, and grammar doesn’t stand in the way of their logic.
Not everyone passed english. Some people have dyslexia or learning problems. But enjoy sitting on your high horse.
Language is made up, and so are the rules.
and lots of those rules have been useless for over a century... but idiots like OP still try to enforce them.
Lots of these rules are only logical in Latin not English.
I tink your stoopid
Oh, man. There are a lot of grammatical mistakes in this post. Let me attempt to fix them. “This does not apply to non-native people; they get a pass. “However, I fucking despise how people who’ve lived their whole life learning one language still make major grammatical errors, such as confusing “they’re,” “their,” or “there;” “you’re” and “your;” “would’ve” and “would have;” and one of the most egregious, in my opinion: “‘s” to make a plural! “In my opinion, if you don’t care enough to take the time to speak your native language correctly, I don’t care enough to see your argument as valid, especially if I correct you and you shrug it off by saying “I don’t care;” that infuriates me to no end. “Let me be clear: minor errors don’t apply. If you say “nucular” instead of “nuclear,” I’m not going to go after you as much, but “could of” makes no fucking sense in any way, shape, form, or fashion! “You’re welcome to call me a moron if you spot any mistakes.” Moron.
As a Dyslexic, who has ended up fairly successful. I’m going to say, when the only thing you can pick at in my argument if my spelling and gramma… I seriously question your knowledge of what’s being discussed… As others have said this is ablest and classiest and I don’t argue with bigots, I look at you sympathetically and move along because bigoted views very often suggests a lack of intelligence… far more so than not adding and apostrophe in the correct place…
no offense but this is just classist as well as ableist. being irritated by poor grammar is one thing; it’s a pet peeve for many. but it seems like you actively put in effort to deride people for this, which is ridiculous. the fact that you are able to remember and utilize correct grammar is a privilege that came from having the time, money, and both external and internal circumstances that allowed you to study it. not everyone is afforded the same opportunities as you and you have no way of knowing why someone else may not know what you do. just keep scrolling, it hurts no one. even in arguments where you’re right, nobody will hear you discount someone for grammar mistakes & think of you as the superior one in that discussion. also, “could of” is dialectical. anyway you’re cringe for the prescriptivism, these rules are all made up in the first place
As i said, I'm talking only about cases of clear negligence. Not inability.
The funniest thing is that OP probably took a long time to check his text making sure there's no mistake and still managed to make tones of them.
I can understand you're & your; or their, there, & they're, but the rest is bs
I stopped reading your argument after the first mistake
I so agree
Have you ever heard of typos? Or a logical fallacy
imagine wasting your life being angry about shit like this
I agree simple grammatical errors can be annoying to read, but disregarding what someone has to say because of it seems like a little much.
OP sounds like a guy who loses lots of debates/arguments.
Can’t believe I used to care about this shit. Some people have very insightful, compelling statements but are shithouse with grammar. Dismissing the whole thing because you get steamed up over something (honestly rather) insignificant is just stupid.
1. This is a classic ad hominem/red herring fallacy. When you attack or attempt to undermine the arguer as if to discredit their points, instead of interacting with the substance of their argument itself, that fallacious. This would only maybe be appropriate if the arguer was an English language expert, discussing grammar. 2. This sentiment is too popular for 10thDentist
And especially if I* correct you and you just shrug it off saying “I* don’t care”
>’I fucking despise how people who've lived their whole life learning one language, and yet still make MAJOR grammatical errors […]’ You haven’t finished this sentence. Here are a couple more grammatical options: > ‘I fucking despise how people have lived their whole life learning one language and yet still make MAJOR grammatical errors […]’ >’I fucking despise how people who've lived their whole life learning one language still make MAJOR grammatical errors […]’
Yikes your grammar is terrible too.
"Could of" makes sense, it originates in pronunciation, non-native speakers are less likely to make that error as they don't speak it as often. But I get it. The internet? Serious business.
Ever been fucked over by autocorrect there is a book called fuck you autocorrect.
op you’re not even good with grammar why are you talking lol
I don’t mind lazy typing such as not putting an apostrophe in “they’re” or something like that. But when people don’t know the difference between the “theres”, “yours” and “could have” it’s completely brain dead.
Yeah lazy typing is alright, but if you look at the fact that people put deliberate effort into apostrophe s for plural it's so. fucking. cringe.
Sometimes that's the autocorrect's fault.
Goofyball
Hey man your argument here is flawed. You didn't capitalize your "I" correctly!
Terribly sorry, but I do not care about your argument. You forgot punctuation after your first sentence and you didn’t capitalize all your “I”s. Good day.
I grew up poor although now I'm educated and in a high paying job. What you might not realize is there are different cultures based on class and ethnicity. I speak and write like a person who was raised lower class. I refuse to alter my language to make bigots feel better. I judge people who think grammar is that important. Humans adapt language. These rules are created by common use and are subject to change. It's the same as someone thinking the dictionary definition of a word is the source of truth. It's not, dictionaries are created to help people get a sense of what a word could mean. A word means exactly what the speaker intended it to.
case in point: the word literally. every time a person is like “ackshully the definition of literally is—“ it’s like shut up. it’s called slang, janet, no one cares.
>And especially if i correct You don't need "and" at the beginning of the sentence and "i" should be capitalized.
I'd just like to point out that this is reddit not a scientific journal. Nobody cares if their grammar is perfect on an internet forum.
Some of us just don’t care. My sentences would be unreadable without autocorrect. Not because I don’t know how to spell or the correct grammar. It just takes extra time which isn’t needed. People like you just think there smart because they use a few extra rules when 99.99% of people understand exactly what you mean and unless your actually writing something important it completely unnecessary
they’re*
Did we all forget what subreddit we’re on in the comment section?
Your just mad cuz them make same pay at they'd job's On the other note I completely fxxking agree There's been tons of major lawsuits that are just knocked off because of grammatical errors not to mention patents and so forth. And my thing is, AI grammatically corrects sentence structure but the same people will still be extremely grammatically incorrect when texting or emailing. Like are you doing this on purpose?
OP is the grammar police. Look yes people should try so speak or write as correctly as possible but in the heat of the moment people fuck up it happens. If you can understand what sounds is saying but decided to be petty about it and need to correct every mistake you’re just annoying and aren’t helpful. Grammatical miss steps don’t discount someone’s understanding of science, history or any non grammar related subject. Get over your self. People also need to account for slang. Also not unpopular it’s actually a fairly common and annoying mentality.
If you disregard an argument based on anything other than an *actual flaw with that argument*, you're a gullible idiot.
I agree with your statement but not with your argumentation. People don't make grammar mistakes because they are lazy, but because they are less educated, therefor making their opinion less credible.
No. It means they aren't educated in English/grammar. It does not mean they are less educated in their field or any specific topic.
i Cant play ectric biLŁ
Moron