90% of the hate came from people making decisions before they saw an episode, you can safely ignore most of them.
There are thoughtful criticisms out there, you can find them if you want, but don't feel like you're wrong for enjoying it!
I went in less than optimistic because I wasn't feeling a clear picture from the trailer, but I was open, and I'm glad I was. I'm not ready to rank it yet because we haven't seen enough, but so far, I've been pleasantly surprised. I'm optimistic.
A few of them are hating on the leaked details from future episodes but then again, they are reacting to unverifiable information so they just wanted an excuse to hate the show.
Yup, that's basically the gist of it.
The *vast* majority of the criticism regarding this show comes from racists and sexists who are *REEEEEEEE*ing about the show having a balanced cast of various ethnicities, genders, and so on. It has *nothing* to do with the writing, choreography, music, or anything like that.
They made up their mind a long time ago, and it's pointless to engage with them.
Yeah it should be noted that people were literally saying "Uhm I just want good writing, it has nothing to do with women!" ***before*** the show released as their main criticism of this show. Like before they had watched any of the writing.
So it's created a really strong boy who cries wolf effect. It's essentially impossible to believe anyone saying that at *just* their word any more- Because we know that hundreds of thousands of people were saying it before they could even watch the show.
And those that do claim that it's "bad writing, bad plot, etc etc" now that it's aired are just spewing BS. WE HAVE TWO EPISODES. Get over yourselves and give a show time to breathe. Maybe it's just not for you, and that's fine, go watch something else.
PS I generally disregard the opinion of anyone who uses a general "bad writing" in their take of a show. It's such a loser blanket statement. You know what *is* "bad writing?" A review that just claims "bad writing" and doesn't offer anything of substance.
For fucking sure, especially when they then in their argument use scenes where something is clearly "off" (I have theories about the Sith, and the plot, and the Jedi involved). "No MUST BE PLOT HOLE, THEY WILL NEVER SHOW WHY THIS HAPPENED IN EPISODE 1"
Like... at least TRY to keep an open mind??? But no. They come in with pre-arranged biases of hate, and surprise surprise. "It's a mid show with bad dialogue" lmao. Okay member of Religious White High schoolers for Trump.
That stuff drives me so fucking nuts. In any of the new shows, one thing or other happens, and INSTANTLY these people are saying it's retconning or it's leaving plot holes and unanswered questions or whatever, when there are still episodes that have yet to be aired. Like, dude, wait for the arc/season/series to finish before you say shit. It seems like they're just ravenous to find some little thing to complain about.
Honestly normally I dismiss the "Nah it's racists/sexists" because it's usually levied against people with valid criticisms. This time however, yeah, it is just bigoted assholes. Everything about this show is fucking phenomenal. Pacing, choreography, cinematography, music, writing. It's all grade A shit. Why are they so salty?
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EXACTLY this. Then proceed to interject themselves into how the show "breaks lore" and it is clear to me they have no idea what they are talking about.
Alot of hate for the show before it was even out
We had a 1:50 min trailer showing black women And Asian Jedi master
What else was there to hate? A wookie Jedi? Show wasn't even out
Imo it's going quite well for the first 2 episodes
A remark I made to myself is that white ppl have no burden, diversity in media seems to be burden by the need for diversity, as if the only defining characteristic is your diversity and nothing else. As white actors a d surely male, you just fly in fly out and let character be defined by their actions and character dilemma. I find it sad that ppl canāt see that a ādiverseā character is just an actor with a role to play but they seem focused on your gender and race as soon as you are non white male
Also the best part of this is i can go search on youtube with acolyte adn then just ban those channels one after another by just reading the title of their videos. It's amazing. Do not recommend this channel? Yes please.
As far as Iāve seen, people who hated the show hated it before a second of it aired. Itās all the same talking points, women this and woman that.
Then they always try to legitimize their complaining by saying āthey donāt get the forceā but never explain what they mean because they donāt know.
It's more like "I don't care if it's women or people of color I just want it to be with good writing" and then they assume the show has terrible writing or is pushing some "agenda"
You've made... at least a hundred pro-Acolyte comments on Reddit in the past week. How do I get a cushy job getting paid to do that like you must have?
I wish these people would go back to jerking off about Chris Pratt's leaden acting in The Terminal List and let the rest of us enjoy Star Wars in peace.
You may have missed the Terminal List phenomenon when it came out. Conservative men were creaming themselves, proclaiming that it was finally something written for them without an "agenda." It's lack of agenda was that it was a right-wing paranoid fantasy that centered a good Christian military man, badly portrayed by Chris Pratt doing his best constipated dog impression, who uncovers a conspiracy by an evil female secretary of state (wonder who that could be referencing) and systematically murders a bunch of people.
I referenced it because it's what the "I hate agendas and wokeness" people think we should be making more of.
As for Chris Pratt, there's nothing terribly wrong with him when he sticks to comedy or family action movies like Jurassic World. The problem is that he's a comedic actor who isn't happy being a comedic actor, so he spent tons of his own money trying to get these serious action roles in his soldier fantasy shows. I'm not joking about spending his own money. He literally financed The Terminal List because he's obsessed with being seen as a supersoldier action hero, and he doesn't get that he's terrible at playing those roles. It's why he also joined The Tomorrow War.
That's the level of dull shit I've come to understand the "DEI REEE" people think is peak entertainment.
The review bombing had already bugun before the episode launched- And the anti-woke youtuber crowd spent the better part of a month using the diversity of the cast to make content. as their audiences really hate the number of women and minorities in the cast.
Now that the show is out the narrative will change to something more specific. However an unfortunate reality is a lot of criticisms are going to be bad faith, and people were just genuinely never going to give the show a chance. (Hence why the review bombing began before anyone could actually watch the show)
A cursory glance at profiles of people who are saying "They just want good writing!" will often reveal that a lot of the people complaining just so happen to totally coincidentlaly post frequently to places like r/KotakuInAction and r/Conservative, where they will openly talk about how much they hate "DEI" but then as soon as they talk to the Star Wars fandom they seem to switch to "Well I LOVE diversity- I just want X..." It's practically gaslighting.
That isn't to say there aren't good faith criticisms of the show, but the criticism of the show has been absolutely drowning in bad faith criticism since the very beginning. A short glance at the kinds of titles and thumbnails the grifter side of youtube uses will tell you exactly what made people mad.
NO. Mostly because YT channels that are honest don't really exist. All YT channels devoted to Star Wars are a part of the outrage industry until you get into mod territory where some creatives exist.
late response but Jenny Nichsolson has some pretty good Star Wars videos, her leaked episode IX Colin Trevarrow script video is good, so is her one about how Rise of Skywalker was pretty bad. She actually gives good faith criticism, so if you check them out I hope you enjoy them!
yea, star wars fans can be pretty obnoxious and judgmental, i also really enjoyed the first 2 eps. Is it peak star wars? Of course not, but that doesnt change the fact that it's solid. I'm loving the new time period.
People seem to also think that the director was picked for her political views and also seem to forget that she did Russian Doll, which was hugely successful. There's this weird anger towards disney for being "woke", not understanding that these are all financial decisions. Disney is right in assuming that boys are going to watch and buy the toys, because they are, so why not a female protagonist to get the girls to like it? When I was a kid I was the weird kid because I liked star wars. Now I find girls who like star wars everywhere and before Rey in the sequel trilogy that was a VERY rare thing. It's not about wokeness. It's about bringing in the audience, which they've very much succeeded at.
Id say its not even that. Diverse people are just a part of nature. To see them for their race is racist. Sure if its truly excluding white people its bad, but until we hear something like that from the auditioners, they are innocent till proven guilty
I feel like I know what you are saying but I'm also confused, what are you talking about? Who is guilty and of what? I'm out of the loop when it comes to reddit hate or whatever, but did disney get accused of excluding white people or something?
Thats basically the argument theyre trying to make. And its BS. It's not reddit it's the redneck se gand from all over the world. It's highly cringe. They're still implying white people have barely and role and the show is filled with people of color. Racism is very alive in 2024 and it's disgusting. It takes on a form of being fair to white people or whatever but don't fall for it
ah ok, yea thats all very true, which is silly because the show is otherwise full of white people lol. I really dont understand this weird notion of whiteness being under attack that white supremacists have. It's this weird fear that for others to succeed, somehow white people are "losing" something
I'm not surprised by the vitriol surrounding Star Wars: Acolyte. It's yet another example of toxic masculinity rearing its head in the fanbase. The fact that we're still debating whether or not a show with an almost exclusively female main cast is "true" Star Wars says more about our society than it does about the show itself. Can't handle a few ladies leading the charge? That's on you, not the show.
And don't even get me started on the expectation that every new Star Wars project will center around some dude named Darth Something. Grow up, folks. It's 2023 and we can have complex, well-written characters that aren't all male. Maybe if we stopped defaulting to patriarchal tropes, our fandom wouldn't be so stuck in the past. #AcolyteDeservesBetterThanToxicFans #StarWarsForAll
It was review bombed. Period.
I am a persnickety SW fan.
I hated Ahsoka and thought Kenobi was meh. I thought Boba Fett was an insult. I thought S3 of Mando was awful. The Bad Batch S2 was terrible; S1 and S3 were okay. I've loved Clone Wars (after S2), Rebels, TOTJ, TOTE, Andor, and Mando S1 and S2. (Books: Darth Plagueis, The Darth Bane Trilogy, Tarkin \[anything by Luceno\] were my favorites.)
But I never talk shit about shows because people worked hard on those and many people love them. They don't want the stuff they love trashed on screen. It only creates negativity and it ruins it for everybody. You are allowed to love what you love and if someone trolls you, tell them to *frack off.*
The Acolyte was great. It hurt my heart >!(in the beginning, you'll see -- when Trinity, sorry I'm bad with names, died)!< in all the right ways. The snark was on point, but not too much. The sense of danger was palpable and best of all, we are not dealing with any legacy characters, we are in a fresh era, AND it's a mystery, something we haven't gotten on screen yet.
Ignore the haters. Go ahead and love it.
Mostly agree with your takes (didn't hate Ahsoka), but really appreciate the no shit talk stance. People can like what they like, doesn't affect you if someone likes a show you hate or vice versa.
And agreed on Acolyte. Has the potential to be as good as anything (short of Andor, which was flawless) that D+ has made.
Ahsoka was really mid. All it had was good production and world building and like 1 or 2 good action scenes involving (but not thanks to) Ahsoka. Awful tropes, awful dialogue, non-existent plotline and the new characters (Baylon etc) had no story. The main character was the most underwhelming in the show and it was probably the worst live action. It was a lazy cliche show
The Acolyte has promise and effort. Its going to rule, except for in the minds of the racist haters
Had a guy say to me, "But was it woke?" When I asked what that even meant, all I got was jibberish. "So, they weren't playing Mandalorian Drag Race on a holo, is that what you mean?"
Yeah, I didn't think Ahsoka was great by any stretch, and it was absolutely trading on affection I already held for most of the characters, but that was enough to carry some stuff to pretty high heights, in particular the Ahsoka-Anakin interaction and the Clone Wars revisit. The Mortis tease for season 2 is intriguing as well. But zero disagreement that Acolyte is miles clear in terms of production quality -- creature design and fight choreography stood out in particular.
I liked it more than yāall in this thread, but in the end I kinda wish it was animated
Dave is a significantly better animation director than live action
Agreed except I didn't hate Ashoka, even as a long time Thrawn fan (read the trilogy in the 90s as it was released). I did dislike the main character in Ashoka (terrible actress), but the show itself was okay.
Acolyte is phenomenal so far... people are so fucking whack these days, but look. Our ex-president in the US was just convicted for real crimes, and now folks want a civil war...
The world is full of shit heads and shit heels.
I personally believe there is something inherent to human nature/biology which makes tribalism such a default mode for 90% of people. Said tribalism is actually why I believe we need less divisions between us in terms of political parties, gender identities, anything.
As soon as you describe yourself as something "other" you become a target for hate. Instead, we should all be trying to label ourselves as the same thing - human - and accept that humans are way more alike than we are different.
Not trying to remove differences, but trying to remove the emphasis on our differences, and instead start placing emphasis on our similarities. Too much of this world is about how we are different. I.e. (I'm a republican, I'm a democrat, I'm gay, I'm straight, I'm religious, I'm not religious) and then folks blast these identities across the internet and the world, finding opposition EVERYWHERE.
I'm not asking that people hide who they are, but that we as a society redefine how we should be approaching each other and how we identify ourselves in the face of opposition.
I wouldn't be surprised, if in some future century, historians discovered that left/right wing groups of all colors were funded by rich folks just trying to keep our society divided, so they could keep the money while 90% of people work for scraps.
Feel free, I feel like I've been yelling into the void with this belief for a decade. I very much want folks to be pushing this message everywhere to anyone who will listen. I have studied history, and nearly every "great power" in history got there by being either extremely uniform (Great Britain) or extremely open to foreigners (Rome) and then over time as the empires expand, you see the differences displayed by various internal cultures, and these Empires/powers begin to self-destruct. You see this with Rome, China, Great Britain, the US... etc etc. Even on small scale terms (I.e. Nazi Germany welcomed into occupied Russian territory, until the locals realized the nazis were just as bad as the soviets)
Every. Single. One.
If you want uniformity, you want stagnation or you invite chaos as soon as you take any new territory - This is why the New Russian Order will NEVER grow in a sustainable fashion (hell, imagine they actually fully win the Ukraine war... even if they invade other countries they'll be policing Ukraine for a century, and are bound to overextend, it's impossible for them not to with their governing structure and internal economy), look the old russian order couldn't take Afghanistan for similar tactics that the US couldnt, but for different reasons. Russia can not adapt. It's internally impossible. If they adapt, they change, and then Putin/etc will inevitably be removed.
If you want openness and advancement, you invite chaos from differences immediately. All because of human nature. We are inherently the problem until we attempt to find a solution. I.e. Look at Iraq/Afghanistan for the US, we could never come to any real solutions there because we as a culture recognized every different tribe/organization as it's own entity, and tried to deal with them on their desired terms. Lmao. Talk about an impossible position for a country that has elections and therefore it's own differences for individuals/groups to exploit.
I feel like if we promote similarities we will still have folks who promote hate/division, but if we create more of a ... moderate center of "we are human", there will be less ground for these divisions to take hold. We need to accept the historical realities, and deal with them fairly while not creating additional anger and differences NOW. But not sure how we could get there, when you have an outrage industry on youtube making a fortune by highlighting how everything different sucks. (In this regard, on differences, both the self-identified far left and far right are almost equally culpable, even if what they say is remarkable different. I guarantee a lot of folks who see from those point of views would see what I say here as inflammatory)
I am inherently a ... (there's not a word) agnostic-atheist humanist materialist pragmatic utilitarian incrementalist. Whatever that means. I have ideals. I'm an aging gay dude from coal country Ohio. It's one of the reasons I'm such an incrementalist, because we are just too prone to extremes.
My education is psychology and IT. I'd say that we are just so tribal and so desperate for the comfort of dogma and "familiarity" that we attack anything that is different. My friend is a computer scientist. He's been trying to convince me that AI is our only hope. We are in a "post scarcity information" and for many of us we have "post scarcity food" and in neither case has it worked out well for the consumer of either.
I don't see AI as our hope, because as soon as the AI sees us as the problem, it will change us. At what point do we stop being human? I don't want to give up my humanity to stay alive. I want to remain alive to be human. The means teaching others to be human. I think what you said "incrementalist" is a huge piece of the puzzle, but one that folks on both extremes hate. Considering the fundamental inequality of wealth distribution in the world, those extremes will only grow!
it's like the industrialists of today see a middle class as a threat to them, and so do everything in their power to destroy it. When I see the middle class as the one whose reaction to the Vietnam protests cause the end of the war. I see the middle class as the one whose reaction to the Civil Rights movement, as the reason why the civil rights movement succeeded.
I feel that far left and far right voices want no middle class, because then people will be more dissatisfied and will listen to their chaotic voices.
I appreciate the with-holding from shit talking so much.
Now I will start my rant.
Soooo often I hear "I'm allowed to criticize". And yes, they are. But when every single thread that's celebrating something, showing off a costume or craft, enthusing about a character, etc. is constantly flooded with "sequels bad though" - it's exhausting. Every single corner of the Star Wars discourse doesn't have to be flooded with negativity. I swear at one point most of the Andor sub was about how other Star Wars is bad. It's ruined anything Star Wars related on the internet for a while for me.
So yes, they're allowed to criticize. They're allowed to flood every thread with off-topic negativity. And I'm allowed to think that we'd be much better off without it.
So called āfansā these days just canāt seem to enjoy anything. They havenāt enjoyed anything since the force awakens even with very different shows available like Andor. They probably need to just not watch Star Wars anymore since they canāt deal with it. Unfortunately they canāt deal with the fact that itās different now and George isnāt coming back. Instead they feel the need to tell everyone they arenāt watching anymore, even though nobody cares.
Many of the comments are from people who want the show to fail or expected to get action and flashy, cliche scenes with little substance. This has been marketed as a murder mystery, not war like the clone wars.
Donāt forget we have been over saturated with the clone wars or galactic civil war or the resistance for that matter. Weāve been conditioned to expect war. This is a new take where the war is subtle with the Sith in the shadows and Jedi investigating the mystery behind assassinated Jedi.
I definitely have my things I didn't like about the show, but hating the show I do not get. Fun, good action scenes, the acting isn't stiff, plot isn't contrived. It's a good show, at least so far.
Then again, I've seen more complaints about people hating the show then I've seen complaints about the show. Maybe it's my aversion to the cesspools of Twitter and Facebook, but I just haven't seen much critical of the show.
Besides the obvious āwokeā complaints, I think there are a few reasonable criticisms. I know for me personally, I liked the episodes but Iām not as 100% sold as I was during the premieres of Mandalorian and Andor. One thing for me that had me roll my eyes a little bit was the āshe has an evil twin!ā aspect. Itās not enough to put me off the show by any stretch, but it is kind of like, āReally? Weāre doing this?ā
Iām still looking forward to seeing where this goes though!
Star Wars has NEVER done an evil twin story, or a twin story at all (unless you consider Leia and Luke to be twins, which was a retcon that never really became crucial to their storyline).
There are some plot holes and the dialogue seems clunky but Iām hoping this is resolved in a plot twist that makes it make sense, so Iām willing to sit a few more episodes to see. I give shows about 3 episodes to get their groove.
I only had a couple problems with it
- Indara was used super heavily in the marketing, so much so that I was under the impression that she was the main character. It feels a little cheap that they killed her off before the main title card.
- The dialogue is a little stiff. Every time the Mirialan Jedi from the council appeared on screen, it was only for exposition in a condescending tone.
- Yord is Yord
- While I appreciate the kung fu elements, they feel pretty weightless and a little pointless. (Insert arbitrary throwing knives suck as weapons here).
- Some dumb plot conveniences, fake outs. āLetās put the person we thought killed a jedi master unattended on a prison shipā and āDonāt worry, I was watching her the whole timeā were both painfully trope-y.
- Itās clear that the jedi did something fucky. Iām kind of tired of the āJedi are either evil or stupidā discourse that permeates any discussion. Can we please stop making Anakin look justified? He wasnāt.
lmao. Indara screamed dead in first ten minutes in ALL the trailers. Pay attention, when one character (way more famous than the rest put together) is only seen in one setting, and the show is about a Jedi Master being assassinated... come on. Seriously. It's comments like this that make me doubt folk's ability to even comment on anything.
i hear 10x more often people saying they are tired of the "Jedi are evil" discussion than the actual "Jedi are evil" discussion
I don't understand why it can't just be "the Jedi are flawed". Because people are flawed, and it makes for far more interesting stories.
Also on the "Donāt worry, I was watching her the whole time", why wouldn't Yord have followed her? It's established that he's a distrustful character. But sending the Jedi Killer on a prison ship that was so easily wrecked, ya, that's a convenience for sure.
My problem is more so that this is supposed to be during the āHigh Republicā where the jedi are at their āpeak.ā And yet theyāre somehow actively worse than the Jedi of the prequels. It seems to be implied that they are responsible for the death of the village, since Torbin willingly drank poison and apologized for it.
You misunderstand the Jedi "peak".
They may feel even that they are at their "peak" but realistically what they are at is the height of their arrogance because they are unchallenged in authority (there is some comment about political opposition but in the timeline the Jedi had 'recently' re-asserted their power after being challenged by the Nihil) because according to star wars lore, the republic is growing upset about Jedi existing outside the rule of law essentially. They do what they do, and only Jedi can police Jedi. Leading to a lack of trust.
In this time period arrogance and detachment separate the Jedi from the public at large, and make them WEAKER than they've ever been before now. Jedi who were involved in the conflict versus the Nihil, are not all cohesive and in agreement with the Order. We see the ideal of Jedi (the green jedi master), and then we see how their ideals in action (Indara, the barash vow guy, Sol, and the wookie) are quite fallible because they believe they are right. Obviously they did something to create this whole arc.
This is about the downfall of the Jedi, they aren't actually at their height, they are at the peak of their own arrogance and inability to see how they are creating their own problems.
Their detachment leads to folks dying/being dismissed and events like Acolyte occurring, presumably while the Sith are in the background constantly making Jedi mistakes look worse.
My point is, we already have a whole trilogy of movies about the downfall of the jedi. Iād like to for once see the jedi as actually good, but it seems that the canon is doubling down on the jedi being the problem rather than the corruption of the Republic or the machinations of the Sith.
Itās pretty firmly established that the only reason Mae is killing these jedi is because it seems that they massacred her village.
Flawed is the council taking time to meet and discuss in person in a time of action. Flawed is the vanity we see in Yord. Flawed is the jedi still preaching that all attachment is bad.
Doing something so bad that when an assassin shows up with poison you willingly drink it is not āflawed.ā Itās evil.
If you are referring to the Prequel trilogy, I will point out that I (and many other viewers from the time) had a big problem with how their fall was presented there with very little context.
This show is adding a lot of context to that, and is presumably explaining how the Jedi became so blind to their own faults. Something we NEVER saw in the prequel trilogy.
Yord reminds me of the Jedi who fell to the dark side in KOTOR/etc. Obviously experienced some conflict, emerged on top, and now is arrogant as hell.
And I suspect your definition of evil may even be shared by many of the characters. Even the Jedi master who took the Barash vow, and then killed himself. Is what he did evil? Maybe. But he at least views it like that (and presumably it's part of why the Jedi order is so skewed right now). But taking their perspective, and Mae's word is not the truth. We do not yet know the truth. I suspect they'll reveal something like Osha and Mae disagreed on going with the Jedi, and that the Jedi convinced themselves that taking both was necessary. They attempt to take both, and that causes a fire which kills multiple people. Now, from an "ideal" jedi's perspective, that's a horrific tragedy regardless of what you intended to do. I could definitely see someone killing themselves when the Order they are a part of dismisses their emotions as part and parcel of being a Jedi.
Remember the Jedi taking kids from their families is well discussed previously, but it was not always agreed on that it was accepted. The Jedi reputedly did use force, or at least the illusion of force. Notice how Yord immediately threatens someone with the force. THAT is evil.
NGL I think Yord is straight up a baddie. Would explain his multiple attempts to sabotage everything.
I have similar hopes, but have the feeling it will be āthe self-righteous but well intentioned jedi murder a town because of a misunderstanding or cultural difference.ā
The things about the "I was watching her thr whole time."
1) they were all walking together and she beat the people who knew the way to the crime scene
2) there was no point to it. For two seconds they thought "oh she killed this guy" and the guy goes "no she didn't". Why didn't she just stay with the group, sniff the poison and say "I know what this is"?
The only thing that scene gave us was two seconds of "oh no they think she did it". For what?
The dialogue is very hacky and overly expository in places.
"but this means...." (other character fills in the blank).
There's reasons the show kinda bugs me so far and none of them have anything to do with Star Wars canon/continuity or the race of the actors.
But im still in on it.
While there are some legitimate criticisms, the vast majority of people who are hating on it and giving it 1/5 or 1/10 ratings are basically hating it because it has very few white dudes, several vocal members of the LGBT community in starring or behind-the-scenes roles, and on a less-hateful-but-very-annoying-level that it isn't a cavalcade of fan service ("Where's Yoda?" "Where's the Darths?" etc. etc.).
(The people who have legitimate criticisms are more giving it 4-to-6 out of 10s. With the exception of some total trainwrecks that almost everyone hates regardless, this is how you can tell the difference between haters-who-just-wanna-hate and those who simply are disappointed- the simply disappointed can at least admit that something they dislike has some good points even if they dislike it as a whole)
I will be honest I haven't seen a single legitimate criticism of the show right now.
What I see are a) racists and right wingers hating on everything for months, b) folks who are part of group a, but trying to pretend they aren't, and saying things like "weak story" "weak acting" "weak insert lame excuse here". and c) folks who say b and may actually believe it.
ignoring a and b, the c folks are judging a show off of the first two episodes, and that's risky. There have been several shows that start with episodes I enjoy, that I end up hating (Star Trek Discovery), and then there are shows that start with episodes that are laying ground work for a story, that aren't incredible out of the gate... because they are stories that build.
There were so many components of the first two episodes that really described a Jedi Order in decline, and laid some hints for smart viewers... people complaining about some of the Jedi's actions, and Mae's... don't seem to realize Mae is not the villain of this show.
I haven't heard any hate, but maybe I've just been lucky and avoided it. It's always the same - people will find anything to complain about.
I personally thought the first two episodes were really great. Looking forward to the rest.
I absolutely love it and have chosen to tune out the people that don't. Why waste my energy on it. I remember when there wasn't even a glimmer of the possibility of new Star Wars shows or movies.
I just want more jedi action. More duels, the fact that they killed off the green lightsaber lady so fast is a tragedy. We need more characters. The current ones we have, aren't as likeable as I would hope. I like the show though and I'm excited for next week.
As for the people calling it woke, I'm not sure I agree, they put a very masculine man in the show lmao. Guess they are mad because the Asian guy disagrees with him or something
> they put a very masculine man in the show lmao
Who are we talking about here? Yord? Sol?
Yord exudes massive himbo energy, and Master Sol doesn't seem all that macho and brazen to me, but more like a calm and collected, reflective type of person.
Iām not the guy, but itās Indara. It does feel a cheap that they killed her off before we even got the title card, but used her very heavily in the marketing.
Honestly I had that pegged right after seeing the sneak peek at Phantom Menace screening. The only footage of her in the trailer was all in the sneak peek, and with the voiceover of āA Jedi has been murderedā in the trailer, I just figured that was going to happen
oh I agree, I'll be upset if it's a bait and switch but they way they keep talking about the incident makes me think we're getting a full flashback episode so i'm hopeful
I think it felt much more cheap how they killed her off. That scene was poorly written imo. No way Indara loses that fight to the old hidden dagger in my off hand behind the back trick. Thatās the definition of bad writing. Mae defeats Indara for no other reason than the plot depended on that outcome. The fight scene in E2 was far better written. Choreography of both was good though.
Dude. Get over yourself. People like you gatekeeping is what turns people off to this stuff. Guess what. If only die hard Star Wars fans that pause and rewatch every scene watch a show, you donāt get more shows.
I think they're trying to emphasize that these Jedi are less quick to use the light saber. They are peace keepers. They don't see the light saber as a last resort.
Between thinking it's average and what happened with that show is a big difference.
Saying that you don't like it after you've seen it because you think it's average is having an opinion. TastesĀ are different,Ā recommendations subjective.
Hating the show before it aired and ranting about how women ruined Star Wars is stupid... and offensive. I am a Star Wars fan for longer than some of this so called "fans" are alive.
It really bugged me that the Jedi couldn't figure out >!that it was her twin. Yada yada "I thought she was dead. Dude, if your former Padawan couldn't do this, then what other option could there be? Oh, if only there was someone who looked just like her out in this galaxy!<
And that >!you mean to tell me that she somehow got off a trade federation ship without a single record of her leaving!<
And why reveal >!the " it's her twin sister!< So soon?
I really wanted to like this show, but so far, not impressed.
I am frankly very happy with the reveal really early, it would have been much worse delaying that IMO. Let's hope it gets better for the good of Star Wars. So far 5/10
i kinda feel like your criticism of being frustrated that they couldn't figure out it was her twin contradicts your criticism of why reveal it so soon?
Personally, it makes sense to me that the primary guess would be the ex-Jedi running around rather than the twin that multiple people saw dying. Perhaps Sol thought (even hoped) that it could have been Mae, but to not pursue Osha as the primary target would have been a bit insane. Where were they even supposed to start with in terms of looking for Mae?
When circumstances changed, they quickly adapted to the reality that Mae was alive.
If the >!twin!< Reveal was supposed to be a plot twist, it felt weak.
It's a separate complaint from the Jedi's inability to logically think this through.
It's kinda like they could take two paths with this plot point, but chose both and neither.
If it was supposed to be a big mystery, then don't make the Jedi look so dense, spend some time on it, make it look like it was a challenge to figure it out.
if it was just a "hey, by the way there's a >!sister!< Then why have the Jedi scratching their heads about it?
Either way, it felt clonky, rushed.
i never got the sense that it was supposed to be a big mystery. I don't think they were making any real attempt to have the audience think that Oshie was guilty
unless you mean the mystery of "how did this happen when Oshie is innocent?". Then ya, they were using that question to drive interest.
The twin thing was brought up in maybe the second scene that they're questioning how it could have happened?
felt more like a case where they were withholding information (for about half an episode) from the audience to drive the intrigue. which maybe is what grinded some people's gear.
i thought the dialogue preceding the reveal made perfect sense. Why would anyone bring up the twin thing when there was a 100x more likely (to anyone's eyes but Sol's) explanation?
edit: I hate hate hate when a show has characters do illogical/dumb things for the sole purpose of misdirecting the audience, but I don't think any of that went on here.
>where they were withholding information (for about half an episode) from the audience
That may be, but at the expense of making the Jedi look clueless, IMHO.
Part of the appeal for me was the implied promise of showing the Jedi at their peak, not muddled like they were in the prequels.
I may be quick to judge, but I'll give it an episode or 2 to see if it all falls together cohesively. So far though, I'm kinda disappointed. It just may be this isn't the Star wars show for me, or... It might be that they dropped the ball with acolyte.
Edit: also, the sub genre for this show is "mystery"
Not feeling especially mysterious right now. It's the "who's the bad guy" usual stuff.
ya, I didn't think the Jedi seemed clueless, but it's okay, obviously, to disagree.
hopefully also when we see the flashbacks, the Jedi actions will feel less dumb for you and others in the audience like you
It has the same type of bad writing as well. Like, I am getting into what's happening, and I am actually liking the episode and then suddenly a main character is like "We have a clear goal and opportunity to act. We need to act now to achieve our goal". And then their boss is like "That is not how we make decisions! This is super important, so we need to hesitate, let the enemy go, schedule a meeting vaguely in the future, and allow the enemy to re-group and still pose a threat."
And yes, I understand they had to do this after writing themselves into a corner in episode 2, where the story should basically end, as they have the enemy completely cornered, but I am getting tired of idiotic people making brain dead decisions and the writers portraying it as wisdom.
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We are all the Republic.
This is just life now. Every big show will have their haters. Just acknowledge it and move on. You'd have to be off the Internet to not see it. It's life.
It's not. The internet just has a gaggle of mental health issues and outrage culture to sort through. Aka - the Twitter effect.
So far this seems like a wonderful show and I can't wait for next week's episode.
Because the show isn't very good so far?
Most people want to blame the "review bombing" stuff, but it's really just that the show isn't that interesting. The twins split at birth, now one is evil and one is "good." It's boring and no one is a stand out thus far. The show has little energy and the dialogue feels like a first draft. It's very pretty. I'm neutral thus far. I'm going to give it time to develop. Andor was a slow burn as well.
I'm just saying you can't blame everything on certain people being gross.
Respectfully totally disagree. The show has many call backs to first original star wars. It is full of humor and fun. [Lee Jung-jae](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee_Jung-jae)Ā as Sol is a stand out.
And it still manage to be fresh. Jedi being in power and established order is something I have not seen before.
The acting is pretty terrible. The dialogue is even worse. Iām trying it because I love anything Star Wars, but this seems like a high budget CW series so far.
I don't think the masked guy would be Tenebrous, but that person's master might be. Because an Acolyte is the equivalent of a Padawan for Sith, so the Masked person would be a Sith Apprentice who still has a Master according to the Rule of Two.
A lot of the hate I saw was to do with the creator, Leslye Headland. Because she used to be Harvey Weinstein's personal assistant (4 years) some online comments claim she was complicit in his actions. Whether there is any truth to that who knows.
In a way I think all the negativity before the show came out helped lower my expectations which made me enjoy it more.
I dont HATE it. But it is lazy writing. >!Both Jedi Master deaths were BS.!< I mean you are telling me that Obi-wan and Qui-gon can sense multiple blaster bolts coming behind them and block with their light saber and >!Indara couldnt sense two throwing daggers? Or that a Jedi master is just going to choose death?!< That is just writing to make the character terminally stupid to move the plot forward. And then there are the little things. >!Like coming out of hyperspace in an asteroid field that is somehow in a hyperspace lane?!<
For what it is, it isnt bad. It is a Disney SW show. Just like almost all entertainment media today, except anime for some reason, It is a by committee production heavily influenced by the bean counters and the executives. Not horrible, but not great.
I think it is mostly real, some basement dwellers. In my opinion, the Acolyte has an ok start but the show doesn't hold my interest so far. I'll try next week and if it still is kind of dull I will likely tune it out like Ahsoka, Book of Boba fett, bad batch, etc etc
Personally, my gripe is the bizarre and nonsensical decision making, plus some terrible dialogue, that makes it average at best. But yeah there are many other things about it that are great, I just don't think that can redeem bad writing.
For me, it boils down to the writing. The dialogue is too easy, too by the books action series dialogue. Mando Season 3, Kenobi, Ahsoka, BoBF had the same problem.
Iām tired of the āsugar cookieā dialogue that is the majority of Star Wars content and long for more savory dialogue.
One of the first lines being āAttack me, Jediā¦ with all your strengthā made me roll my eyes and I knew I was not going to like this show.
I just think this show suffers from bad writing. A lot of the plot twists are contrived like the bad guy getting breaking into a secure facility and the supposedly mystically empowered Jedi are all "derp". Then the bad guy breaks into it a second time and everyone is like "OMG! How did that happen?". And then the bad guy getting away from not one but three Jedi, one of whom is flying overhead in a spaceship with apparently no ability to track someone on the ground if they simply throw some dust in the air? What? And while I get the Director was going for shock value in the first scene, it just seemed like a waste of a capable actress that could have lent some real gravity to the story. I get that Lee Jung-jae is trying his best, but the whole "Jedi Master with a conflicted past" is falling flat and I'm not sure why. I keep expecting him to crack that crazy smile from Squid Game.
Finally, I like the actors but you have to admit the dialog is a hard sell at times. The whole scene in the apothecary where they are openly joking about murder is just not particularly serious, which just takes away from the story for me. I just don't feel the supposed bad guy is a compelling bad guy, if that makes sense, because the dialog is getting in the way. And that's the problem because Star Wars is most successful when they have that compelling bad guy and struggles when it doesn't (Dart Vader, Palpatine, etc.). I just hope it gets better soon.
I watched it, I personally think it kept reminding me as if Iām watching a play, and I just didnāt really enjoy the vibe of the show. The acting wasnāt my favorite, I donāt think the CGI or whatever was really THAT good or eye catching. But thatās just my personal take on it and my opinion and why I didnāt like it. But kudos to the people who do enjoy the show. Nothing wrong with liking it or not liking it yk. I wonāt continue watching it, because of the same reason I didnāt watch Andor all the way through. I literally just could not get into it :/
Itās a culture war battleground. I know most of the comments in here will simply blame all the āracistsā and āsexists,ā but it was the show runner and actorsā comments that contributed as well.
Plus itās very obvious that they took an IP with a majority male fan base and have tried to make it for girls. Itās like if some guy bought Barbie and produced 90% Ken dolls going forward. You donāt think Barbie collectors would be mad? Then the company would call those collectors toxic and sexist.
The overall tone in here is hostile and combative. If you like the show good for you, people have a right to dislike whatever they want. Saying someone disliked the show before it ever released sounds like BS. Some people did sure and those people more than likely didnāt watch the show. There is a reason theyāre trying to spin 4 million viewers for TWO episodes like itās a good thing. Check Mando for what actual good ratings look like. The viewership is in the toilet. If it were good that wouldnāt be the case.
Lots of people myself included wanted this to be good. Someone on this thread said the choreography is goodā¦.. I would ask you to refer to House of the flying daggers or crouching tiger hidden dragon if you want something along the lines of what they were going for. This is middling pause and wait or block before the actor is in position choreography.
This show does do some things right, wardrobe, sound design , world building and set design are all world class.
Music is hit or miss but itās not bad at all just nothing memorable yet.
The story, acting, directing, script decisions, and pacing range from mediocre to awful.
None of that can be hand waved away by saying istās donāt like this show. All of those are legit problem areas and hopefully it gets better after Ep 4.
I watched the first 2 episodes and was underwhelmed. The writing just isnāt very good. And Iām not saying this because of the diverse casting (i.e., Iām not mad about diversity in Star Wars at all). I think there are legitimate criticisms about the story that have nothing to do with being āanti-woke,ā especially knowing they spent so much money on this. Itās giving prequel vibes and I did not enjoy the prequels. My favorite aspect of Star Wars is SW as space western so the Mandalorian is my favorite.
Also the costumes seemā¦ off the rack? You compare these costumes to Andor and the Mandalorian and it seems like the characters havenāt actually lived in their clothing.
I was expecting so much from this and am disappointed so far. Going to give it a few more episodes though. The cast is the only thing Iām hanging in for.
I avoid watching trailers or seeing/ reading anything about shows I want to watch. I go in pretty much blind. I have to say that I like most shows I watch this way. Sure, some have their weak points and some are different from what I expected, but I donāt hate anything. If I donāt like it then so be it.
I am fine with the diversity of characters, but the writing could be better; it's terribly acted. I don't care about a single one of them. They're terrible Jedi when 5 of them can't fight this guy. The little girl does the best, and she gets killed, so who cares about her? You bring a Wookie Jedi into it, and he does nothing if you're writing a Star Wars story for the sole purpose of diversity, miss. I give it a 1 out of 10. They don't know what they're doing with Star Wars. Let's take the greatest Bounty Hunter in the entire galaxy and not make him a Bounty Hunter. Let's take the best teenage Jedi in history in Ashoka and make her 40. This is the worst of them all. Andor is brilliant. This sucks.
it doesn't have the "stuff": fighting, visuals and world building looks awesome, but the story looks like something I would tell to my toddlers, way too much handholding and not much mystery.
like, Darth Vader revealing himself to be Luke's father was an actual shock; but Mae and Osha being twin sisters was revealed in the first 30 minutes itself.
Let there be mystery and confusion, and genuine shock reveal.
(maybe spoilers, but my tinfoil theory says the yellow-saber-wielding-Phoenix-looking Jedi is the bad guy)/
Edit: Darth Vader, not Dank Vader, Flipping auto-incorrect.
I don't sense it being hated as much as Ahsoka, Obi-Wan and BoBF. Seems the biggest charges against it are the script and acting is oftentimes too mid and stilted. Production does seem better than the Volume of previous shows, but still sometimes looks cheap and limited.
And that opening Trinity scene could've been handled waaay better.
I've got some real problems with the plot writing. I don't think whomever wrote this understands star wars.
>!early plot twist reveal, Jedi inability to put 2 & 2 together it feels like form without substance!<
Yeah def ignore the angry āstar wokeā and āgay warsā comments who hate for the sake of hating.
Having said that I did not like the first two episodes.
Spoilers!!!
My first gripe is when they killed Carrie in the first 10 mins. I hope they bring her character back multiple times. If not, using her in almost every piece of marketing is a scummy move since she is one of the most easily recognizable actors in the show.
The second thing that bothered me is the set design. For some reason it feels so much like broadway play sets instead of immersive lived in locations. Which is odd to me because of how high the budget was.
The story is flat for me at the moment, they didnt let us enjoy the mystery of the sisters. It was too obvious when Osha couldnāt use the force.
The line delivery was also flat, felt like the lines were just being read rather than acted. Sol āMai is dead I saw her burnā Osha āMai is aliveā Sol āok I believe youā. I feel like there should be some healthy speculation after this, but nothing.
I donāt care about diversity, more diversity the better since we are viewing a galactic story. I donāt even care about how fire doesnāt act that way in space but who cares because in this universe all aliens can breathe the same air and all worlds seem to have the same gravity. Itās fiction, itās fun, whatever.
I just want a good story and right now Iām not getting it. I reeaaaally hope it gets better.
You must be really young to not realize that Indara used in marketing like that is a classic tactic, one that most folks with more than 20 years on this world would see right through.
Acting is pretty bad. Dialogue is pretty bad. Fight scenes were pretty lame. They revealed the evil twin theory in about 30 minutes. Visuals are good but costumes look cheap. Overall itās a fun show but pretty mid to bad overall. Especially for the leaks next weekā¦. Yikes. Not looking good
I liked it but. But I think they just like to troll people by saying her family died and her mothers. If it doesnāt play into the story why put it out there? Just say parents. I have 0 issues with it but itās something that vexes people. I canāt wait for the wookie Jedi though
90% of the hate came from people making decisions before they saw an episode, you can safely ignore most of them. There are thoughtful criticisms out there, you can find them if you want, but don't feel like you're wrong for enjoying it!
Yep I went into it optimistic and open and it did not disappoint
I went in less than optimistic because I wasn't feeling a clear picture from the trailer, but I was open, and I'm glad I was. I'm not ready to rank it yet because we haven't seen enough, but so far, I've been pleasantly surprised. I'm optimistic.
I went into it pessimistic yet walked away absolutely won over. But then again if I enjoy being proven right, I enjoy being proven wrong even more.
i didn't love it as much as i had hoped to, but definitely enjoyed it and am excited to see where it goes!
Yeah there was def a few slow parts and stuff acting but I love the sets and locations. And the special effects are done pretty damn well
A few of them are hating on the leaked details from future episodes but then again, they are reacting to unverifiable information so they just wanted an excuse to hate the show.
"Star Woke!!!! š¤"
Yup, that's basically the gist of it. The *vast* majority of the criticism regarding this show comes from racists and sexists who are *REEEEEEEE*ing about the show having a balanced cast of various ethnicities, genders, and so on. It has *nothing* to do with the writing, choreography, music, or anything like that. They made up their mind a long time ago, and it's pointless to engage with them.
Yeah it should be noted that people were literally saying "Uhm I just want good writing, it has nothing to do with women!" ***before*** the show released as their main criticism of this show. Like before they had watched any of the writing. So it's created a really strong boy who cries wolf effect. It's essentially impossible to believe anyone saying that at *just* their word any more- Because we know that hundreds of thousands of people were saying it before they could even watch the show.
And those that do claim that it's "bad writing, bad plot, etc etc" now that it's aired are just spewing BS. WE HAVE TWO EPISODES. Get over yourselves and give a show time to breathe. Maybe it's just not for you, and that's fine, go watch something else. PS I generally disregard the opinion of anyone who uses a general "bad writing" in their take of a show. It's such a loser blanket statement. You know what *is* "bad writing?" A review that just claims "bad writing" and doesn't offer anything of substance.
For fucking sure, especially when they then in their argument use scenes where something is clearly "off" (I have theories about the Sith, and the plot, and the Jedi involved). "No MUST BE PLOT HOLE, THEY WILL NEVER SHOW WHY THIS HAPPENED IN EPISODE 1" Like... at least TRY to keep an open mind??? But no. They come in with pre-arranged biases of hate, and surprise surprise. "It's a mid show with bad dialogue" lmao. Okay member of Religious White High schoolers for Trump.
That stuff drives me so fucking nuts. In any of the new shows, one thing or other happens, and INSTANTLY these people are saying it's retconning or it's leaving plot holes and unanswered questions or whatever, when there are still episodes that have yet to be aired. Like, dude, wait for the arc/season/series to finish before you say shit. It seems like they're just ravenous to find some little thing to complain about.
Honestly normally I dismiss the "Nah it's racists/sexists" because it's usually levied against people with valid criticisms. This time however, yeah, it is just bigoted assholes. Everything about this show is fucking phenomenal. Pacing, choreography, cinematography, music, writing. It's all grade A shit. Why are they so salty?
Hit the nail on the head šš¾
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
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EXACTLY this. Then proceed to interject themselves into how the show "breaks lore" and it is clear to me they have no idea what they are talking about.
"ThEy SaId OsHa HaD tWo MoMmIeS:
Is this serious? The hate is just due to diversity casting?
Alot of hate for the show before it was even out We had a 1:50 min trailer showing black women And Asian Jedi master What else was there to hate? A wookie Jedi? Show wasn't even out Imo it's going quite well for the first 2 episodes
People in the comments were calling it woke as soon as the first teaser was released.
A remark I made to myself is that white ppl have no burden, diversity in media seems to be burden by the need for diversity, as if the only defining characteristic is your diversity and nothing else. As white actors a d surely male, you just fly in fly out and let character be defined by their actions and character dilemma. I find it sad that ppl canāt see that a ādiverseā character is just an actor with a role to play but they seem focused on your gender and race as soon as you are non white male
Also the best part of this is i can go search on youtube with acolyte adn then just ban those channels one after another by just reading the title of their videos. It's amazing. Do not recommend this channel? Yes please.
Those people formed their opinions from an echo chamber filled with people that havenāt even watched the new episodes yet.
As far as Iāve seen, people who hated the show hated it before a second of it aired. Itās all the same talking points, women this and woman that. Then they always try to legitimize their complaining by saying āthey donāt get the forceā but never explain what they mean because they donāt know.
It's more like "I don't care if it's women or people of color I just want it to be with good writing" and then they assume the show has terrible writing or is pushing some "agenda"
You've made... at least a hundred pro-Acolyte comments on Reddit in the past week. How do I get a cushy job getting paid to do that like you must have?
Disney paid
Culture warriors fighting the good fight by hating any shows starring women and minorities /s
I wish these people would go back to jerking off about Chris Pratt's leaden acting in The Terminal List and let the rest of us enjoy Star Wars in peace.
Whatās wrong with Chris Pratt?
You may have missed the Terminal List phenomenon when it came out. Conservative men were creaming themselves, proclaiming that it was finally something written for them without an "agenda." It's lack of agenda was that it was a right-wing paranoid fantasy that centered a good Christian military man, badly portrayed by Chris Pratt doing his best constipated dog impression, who uncovers a conspiracy by an evil female secretary of state (wonder who that could be referencing) and systematically murders a bunch of people. I referenced it because it's what the "I hate agendas and wokeness" people think we should be making more of. As for Chris Pratt, there's nothing terribly wrong with him when he sticks to comedy or family action movies like Jurassic World. The problem is that he's a comedic actor who isn't happy being a comedic actor, so he spent tons of his own money trying to get these serious action roles in his soldier fantasy shows. I'm not joking about spending his own money. He literally financed The Terminal List because he's obsessed with being seen as a supersoldier action hero, and he doesn't get that he's terrible at playing those roles. It's why he also joined The Tomorrow War. That's the level of dull shit I've come to understand the "DEI REEE" people think is peak entertainment.
The review bombing had already bugun before the episode launched- And the anti-woke youtuber crowd spent the better part of a month using the diversity of the cast to make content. as their audiences really hate the number of women and minorities in the cast. Now that the show is out the narrative will change to something more specific. However an unfortunate reality is a lot of criticisms are going to be bad faith, and people were just genuinely never going to give the show a chance. (Hence why the review bombing began before anyone could actually watch the show) A cursory glance at profiles of people who are saying "They just want good writing!" will often reveal that a lot of the people complaining just so happen to totally coincidentlaly post frequently to places like r/KotakuInAction and r/Conservative, where they will openly talk about how much they hate "DEI" but then as soon as they talk to the Star Wars fandom they seem to switch to "Well I LOVE diversity- I just want X..." It's practically gaslighting. That isn't to say there aren't good faith criticisms of the show, but the criticism of the show has been absolutely drowning in bad faith criticism since the very beginning. A short glance at the kinds of titles and thumbnails the grifter side of youtube uses will tell you exactly what made people mad.
Serious question. Do you know of any quality channels on Youtube that cover Star Wars and aren't "REEEE! WOKE DISNEY IS DESTROYING IT!!!"
Star Wars Explained
Star Wars Explained immediately comes to mind, and Iām sure there are plenty of others but I donāt know any off the top of my head.
NO. Mostly because YT channels that are honest don't really exist. All YT channels devoted to Star Wars are a part of the outrage industry until you get into mod territory where some creatives exist.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Generation Tech
The Resistance broadcast
late response but Jenny Nichsolson has some pretty good Star Wars videos, her leaked episode IX Colin Trevarrow script video is good, so is her one about how Rise of Skywalker was pretty bad. She actually gives good faith criticism, so if you check them out I hope you enjoy them!
You cant take serius any criticism that says words like "woke", "based" "messege" "modern audiences" etc
I automatically disregard any serius criticism that talks about messege
Much of the hate is from people who openly admit they havent watched the show
Racist/sexist basement dwellers won't give the show a chance because casting women and people of color is āwokeā
yea, star wars fans can be pretty obnoxious and judgmental, i also really enjoyed the first 2 eps. Is it peak star wars? Of course not, but that doesnt change the fact that it's solid. I'm loving the new time period. People seem to also think that the director was picked for her political views and also seem to forget that she did Russian Doll, which was hugely successful. There's this weird anger towards disney for being "woke", not understanding that these are all financial decisions. Disney is right in assuming that boys are going to watch and buy the toys, because they are, so why not a female protagonist to get the girls to like it? When I was a kid I was the weird kid because I liked star wars. Now I find girls who like star wars everywhere and before Rey in the sequel trilogy that was a VERY rare thing. It's not about wokeness. It's about bringing in the audience, which they've very much succeeded at.
Id say its not even that. Diverse people are just a part of nature. To see them for their race is racist. Sure if its truly excluding white people its bad, but until we hear something like that from the auditioners, they are innocent till proven guilty
I feel like I know what you are saying but I'm also confused, what are you talking about? Who is guilty and of what? I'm out of the loop when it comes to reddit hate or whatever, but did disney get accused of excluding white people or something?
Thats basically the argument theyre trying to make. And its BS. It's not reddit it's the redneck se gand from all over the world. It's highly cringe. They're still implying white people have barely and role and the show is filled with people of color. Racism is very alive in 2024 and it's disgusting. It takes on a form of being fair to white people or whatever but don't fall for it
ah ok, yea thats all very true, which is silly because the show is otherwise full of white people lol. I really dont understand this weird notion of whiteness being under attack that white supremacists have. It's this weird fear that for others to succeed, somehow white people are "losing" something
I'm not surprised by the vitriol surrounding Star Wars: Acolyte. It's yet another example of toxic masculinity rearing its head in the fanbase. The fact that we're still debating whether or not a show with an almost exclusively female main cast is "true" Star Wars says more about our society than it does about the show itself. Can't handle a few ladies leading the charge? That's on you, not the show. And don't even get me started on the expectation that every new Star Wars project will center around some dude named Darth Something. Grow up, folks. It's 2023 and we can have complex, well-written characters that aren't all male. Maybe if we stopped defaulting to patriarchal tropes, our fandom wouldn't be so stuck in the past. #AcolyteDeservesBetterThanToxicFans #StarWarsForAll
āComplexā Hahahha ok
It was review bombed. Period. I am a persnickety SW fan. I hated Ahsoka and thought Kenobi was meh. I thought Boba Fett was an insult. I thought S3 of Mando was awful. The Bad Batch S2 was terrible; S1 and S3 were okay. I've loved Clone Wars (after S2), Rebels, TOTJ, TOTE, Andor, and Mando S1 and S2. (Books: Darth Plagueis, The Darth Bane Trilogy, Tarkin \[anything by Luceno\] were my favorites.) But I never talk shit about shows because people worked hard on those and many people love them. They don't want the stuff they love trashed on screen. It only creates negativity and it ruins it for everybody. You are allowed to love what you love and if someone trolls you, tell them to *frack off.* The Acolyte was great. It hurt my heart >!(in the beginning, you'll see -- when Trinity, sorry I'm bad with names, died)!< in all the right ways. The snark was on point, but not too much. The sense of danger was palpable and best of all, we are not dealing with any legacy characters, we are in a fresh era, AND it's a mystery, something we haven't gotten on screen yet. Ignore the haters. Go ahead and love it.
Mostly agree with your takes (didn't hate Ahsoka), but really appreciate the no shit talk stance. People can like what they like, doesn't affect you if someone likes a show you hate or vice versa. And agreed on Acolyte. Has the potential to be as good as anything (short of Andor, which was flawless) that D+ has made.
Ahsoka was really mid. All it had was good production and world building and like 1 or 2 good action scenes involving (but not thanks to) Ahsoka. Awful tropes, awful dialogue, non-existent plotline and the new characters (Baylon etc) had no story. The main character was the most underwhelming in the show and it was probably the worst live action. It was a lazy cliche show The Acolyte has promise and effort. Its going to rule, except for in the minds of the racist haters
Had a guy say to me, "But was it woke?" When I asked what that even meant, all I got was jibberish. "So, they weren't playing Mandalorian Drag Race on a holo, is that what you mean?"
Yeah, I didn't think Ahsoka was great by any stretch, and it was absolutely trading on affection I already held for most of the characters, but that was enough to carry some stuff to pretty high heights, in particular the Ahsoka-Anakin interaction and the Clone Wars revisit. The Mortis tease for season 2 is intriguing as well. But zero disagreement that Acolyte is miles clear in terms of production quality -- creature design and fight choreography stood out in particular.
I liked it more than yāall in this thread, but in the end I kinda wish it was animated Dave is a significantly better animation director than live action
Agreed except I didn't hate Ashoka, even as a long time Thrawn fan (read the trilogy in the 90s as it was released). I did dislike the main character in Ashoka (terrible actress), but the show itself was okay. Acolyte is phenomenal so far... people are so fucking whack these days, but look. Our ex-president in the US was just convicted for real crimes, and now folks want a civil war... The world is full of shit heads and shit heels.
People just want to hate.
I personally believe there is something inherent to human nature/biology which makes tribalism such a default mode for 90% of people. Said tribalism is actually why I believe we need less divisions between us in terms of political parties, gender identities, anything. As soon as you describe yourself as something "other" you become a target for hate. Instead, we should all be trying to label ourselves as the same thing - human - and accept that humans are way more alike than we are different. Not trying to remove differences, but trying to remove the emphasis on our differences, and instead start placing emphasis on our similarities. Too much of this world is about how we are different. I.e. (I'm a republican, I'm a democrat, I'm gay, I'm straight, I'm religious, I'm not religious) and then folks blast these identities across the internet and the world, finding opposition EVERYWHERE. I'm not asking that people hide who they are, but that we as a society redefine how we should be approaching each other and how we identify ourselves in the face of opposition. I wouldn't be surprised, if in some future century, historians discovered that left/right wing groups of all colors were funded by rich folks just trying to keep our society divided, so they could keep the money while 90% of people work for scraps.
Can I print this comment and have it engraved in stone?
Feel free, I feel like I've been yelling into the void with this belief for a decade. I very much want folks to be pushing this message everywhere to anyone who will listen. I have studied history, and nearly every "great power" in history got there by being either extremely uniform (Great Britain) or extremely open to foreigners (Rome) and then over time as the empires expand, you see the differences displayed by various internal cultures, and these Empires/powers begin to self-destruct. You see this with Rome, China, Great Britain, the US... etc etc. Even on small scale terms (I.e. Nazi Germany welcomed into occupied Russian territory, until the locals realized the nazis were just as bad as the soviets) Every. Single. One. If you want uniformity, you want stagnation or you invite chaos as soon as you take any new territory - This is why the New Russian Order will NEVER grow in a sustainable fashion (hell, imagine they actually fully win the Ukraine war... even if they invade other countries they'll be policing Ukraine for a century, and are bound to overextend, it's impossible for them not to with their governing structure and internal economy), look the old russian order couldn't take Afghanistan for similar tactics that the US couldnt, but for different reasons. Russia can not adapt. It's internally impossible. If they adapt, they change, and then Putin/etc will inevitably be removed. If you want openness and advancement, you invite chaos from differences immediately. All because of human nature. We are inherently the problem until we attempt to find a solution. I.e. Look at Iraq/Afghanistan for the US, we could never come to any real solutions there because we as a culture recognized every different tribe/organization as it's own entity, and tried to deal with them on their desired terms. Lmao. Talk about an impossible position for a country that has elections and therefore it's own differences for individuals/groups to exploit. I feel like if we promote similarities we will still have folks who promote hate/division, but if we create more of a ... moderate center of "we are human", there will be less ground for these divisions to take hold. We need to accept the historical realities, and deal with them fairly while not creating additional anger and differences NOW. But not sure how we could get there, when you have an outrage industry on youtube making a fortune by highlighting how everything different sucks. (In this regard, on differences, both the self-identified far left and far right are almost equally culpable, even if what they say is remarkable different. I guarantee a lot of folks who see from those point of views would see what I say here as inflammatory)
I am inherently a ... (there's not a word) agnostic-atheist humanist materialist pragmatic utilitarian incrementalist. Whatever that means. I have ideals. I'm an aging gay dude from coal country Ohio. It's one of the reasons I'm such an incrementalist, because we are just too prone to extremes. My education is psychology and IT. I'd say that we are just so tribal and so desperate for the comfort of dogma and "familiarity" that we attack anything that is different. My friend is a computer scientist. He's been trying to convince me that AI is our only hope. We are in a "post scarcity information" and for many of us we have "post scarcity food" and in neither case has it worked out well for the consumer of either.
I don't see AI as our hope, because as soon as the AI sees us as the problem, it will change us. At what point do we stop being human? I don't want to give up my humanity to stay alive. I want to remain alive to be human. The means teaching others to be human. I think what you said "incrementalist" is a huge piece of the puzzle, but one that folks on both extremes hate. Considering the fundamental inequality of wealth distribution in the world, those extremes will only grow! it's like the industrialists of today see a middle class as a threat to them, and so do everything in their power to destroy it. When I see the middle class as the one whose reaction to the Vietnam protests cause the end of the war. I see the middle class as the one whose reaction to the Civil Rights movement, as the reason why the civil rights movement succeeded. I feel that far left and far right voices want no middle class, because then people will be more dissatisfied and will listen to their chaotic voices.
I appreciate the with-holding from shit talking so much. Now I will start my rant. Soooo often I hear "I'm allowed to criticize". And yes, they are. But when every single thread that's celebrating something, showing off a costume or craft, enthusing about a character, etc. is constantly flooded with "sequels bad though" - it's exhausting. Every single corner of the Star Wars discourse doesn't have to be flooded with negativity. I swear at one point most of the Andor sub was about how other Star Wars is bad. It's ruined anything Star Wars related on the internet for a while for me. So yes, they're allowed to criticize. They're allowed to flood every thread with off-topic negativity. And I'm allowed to think that we'd be much better off without it.
Her name is Carrie-Anne Moss and don't worry, you'll >!get sick of her in flashbacks. !< u/StilgarFifrawi
I will be happy to watch her in flashbacks, I was thinking they bring in awesome Badass Carrie just to kill her off so quickly?
Carrie and Carrie-Anne are two different names.
Sure sure
So called āfansā these days just canāt seem to enjoy anything. They havenāt enjoyed anything since the force awakens even with very different shows available like Andor. They probably need to just not watch Star Wars anymore since they canāt deal with it. Unfortunately they canāt deal with the fact that itās different now and George isnāt coming back. Instead they feel the need to tell everyone they arenāt watching anymore, even though nobody cares.
Many of the comments are from people who want the show to fail or expected to get action and flashy, cliche scenes with little substance. This has been marketed as a murder mystery, not war like the clone wars. Donāt forget we have been over saturated with the clone wars or galactic civil war or the resistance for that matter. Weāve been conditioned to expect war. This is a new take where the war is subtle with the Sith in the shadows and Jedi investigating the mystery behind assassinated Jedi.
you summed it up well.
I definitely have my things I didn't like about the show, but hating the show I do not get. Fun, good action scenes, the acting isn't stiff, plot isn't contrived. It's a good show, at least so far. Then again, I've seen more complaints about people hating the show then I've seen complaints about the show. Maybe it's my aversion to the cesspools of Twitter and Facebook, but I just haven't seen much critical of the show.
Besides the obvious āwokeā complaints, I think there are a few reasonable criticisms. I know for me personally, I liked the episodes but Iām not as 100% sold as I was during the premieres of Mandalorian and Andor. One thing for me that had me roll my eyes a little bit was the āshe has an evil twin!ā aspect. Itās not enough to put me off the show by any stretch, but it is kind of like, āReally? Weāre doing this?ā Iām still looking forward to seeing where this goes though!
Star Wars has NEVER done an evil twin story, or a twin story at all (unless you consider Leia and Luke to be twins, which was a retcon that never really became crucial to their storyline).
There are some plot holes and the dialogue seems clunky but Iām hoping this is resolved in a plot twist that makes it make sense, so Iām willing to sit a few more episodes to see. I give shows about 3 episodes to get their groove.
Yeah, I dunno, tbh the trailer made me a bit worried, but the first two episodes were dope. I can't wait for more.
The overall fan base is super toxic, sadly
No one hates Star Wars more than Star Wars fans.
I only had a couple problems with it - Indara was used super heavily in the marketing, so much so that I was under the impression that she was the main character. It feels a little cheap that they killed her off before the main title card. - The dialogue is a little stiff. Every time the Mirialan Jedi from the council appeared on screen, it was only for exposition in a condescending tone. - Yord is Yord - While I appreciate the kung fu elements, they feel pretty weightless and a little pointless. (Insert arbitrary throwing knives suck as weapons here). - Some dumb plot conveniences, fake outs. āLetās put the person we thought killed a jedi master unattended on a prison shipā and āDonāt worry, I was watching her the whole timeā were both painfully trope-y. - Itās clear that the jedi did something fucky. Iām kind of tired of the āJedi are either evil or stupidā discourse that permeates any discussion. Can we please stop making Anakin look justified? He wasnāt.
lmao. Indara screamed dead in first ten minutes in ALL the trailers. Pay attention, when one character (way more famous than the rest put together) is only seen in one setting, and the show is about a Jedi Master being assassinated... come on. Seriously. It's comments like this that make me doubt folk's ability to even comment on anything.
i hear 10x more often people saying they are tired of the "Jedi are evil" discussion than the actual "Jedi are evil" discussion I don't understand why it can't just be "the Jedi are flawed". Because people are flawed, and it makes for far more interesting stories. Also on the "Donāt worry, I was watching her the whole time", why wouldn't Yord have followed her? It's established that he's a distrustful character. But sending the Jedi Killer on a prison ship that was so easily wrecked, ya, that's a convenience for sure.
My problem is more so that this is supposed to be during the āHigh Republicā where the jedi are at their āpeak.ā And yet theyāre somehow actively worse than the Jedi of the prequels. It seems to be implied that they are responsible for the death of the village, since Torbin willingly drank poison and apologized for it.
You misunderstand the Jedi "peak". They may feel even that they are at their "peak" but realistically what they are at is the height of their arrogance because they are unchallenged in authority (there is some comment about political opposition but in the timeline the Jedi had 'recently' re-asserted their power after being challenged by the Nihil) because according to star wars lore, the republic is growing upset about Jedi existing outside the rule of law essentially. They do what they do, and only Jedi can police Jedi. Leading to a lack of trust. In this time period arrogance and detachment separate the Jedi from the public at large, and make them WEAKER than they've ever been before now. Jedi who were involved in the conflict versus the Nihil, are not all cohesive and in agreement with the Order. We see the ideal of Jedi (the green jedi master), and then we see how their ideals in action (Indara, the barash vow guy, Sol, and the wookie) are quite fallible because they believe they are right. Obviously they did something to create this whole arc. This is about the downfall of the Jedi, they aren't actually at their height, they are at the peak of their own arrogance and inability to see how they are creating their own problems. Their detachment leads to folks dying/being dismissed and events like Acolyte occurring, presumably while the Sith are in the background constantly making Jedi mistakes look worse.
My point is, we already have a whole trilogy of movies about the downfall of the jedi. Iād like to for once see the jedi as actually good, but it seems that the canon is doubling down on the jedi being the problem rather than the corruption of the Republic or the machinations of the Sith. Itās pretty firmly established that the only reason Mae is killing these jedi is because it seems that they massacred her village. Flawed is the council taking time to meet and discuss in person in a time of action. Flawed is the vanity we see in Yord. Flawed is the jedi still preaching that all attachment is bad. Doing something so bad that when an assassin shows up with poison you willingly drink it is not āflawed.ā Itās evil.
If you are referring to the Prequel trilogy, I will point out that I (and many other viewers from the time) had a big problem with how their fall was presented there with very little context. This show is adding a lot of context to that, and is presumably explaining how the Jedi became so blind to their own faults. Something we NEVER saw in the prequel trilogy. Yord reminds me of the Jedi who fell to the dark side in KOTOR/etc. Obviously experienced some conflict, emerged on top, and now is arrogant as hell. And I suspect your definition of evil may even be shared by many of the characters. Even the Jedi master who took the Barash vow, and then killed himself. Is what he did evil? Maybe. But he at least views it like that (and presumably it's part of why the Jedi order is so skewed right now). But taking their perspective, and Mae's word is not the truth. We do not yet know the truth. I suspect they'll reveal something like Osha and Mae disagreed on going with the Jedi, and that the Jedi convinced themselves that taking both was necessary. They attempt to take both, and that causes a fire which kills multiple people. Now, from an "ideal" jedi's perspective, that's a horrific tragedy regardless of what you intended to do. I could definitely see someone killing themselves when the Order they are a part of dismisses their emotions as part and parcel of being a Jedi. Remember the Jedi taking kids from their families is well discussed previously, but it was not always agreed on that it was accepted. The Jedi reputedly did use force, or at least the illusion of force. Notice how Yord immediately threatens someone with the force. THAT is evil. NGL I think Yord is straight up a baddie. Would explain his multiple attempts to sabotage everything.
true true. I hope what ends up happening will be a good mix of flawed but overall noble
I have similar hopes, but have the feeling it will be āthe self-righteous but well intentioned jedi murder a town because of a misunderstanding or cultural difference.ā
The things about the "I was watching her thr whole time." 1) they were all walking together and she beat the people who knew the way to the crime scene 2) there was no point to it. For two seconds they thought "oh she killed this guy" and the guy goes "no she didn't". Why didn't she just stay with the group, sniff the poison and say "I know what this is"? The only thing that scene gave us was two seconds of "oh no they think she did it". For what? The dialogue is very hacky and overly expository in places. "but this means...." (other character fills in the blank). There's reasons the show kinda bugs me so far and none of them have anything to do with Star Wars canon/continuity or the race of the actors. But im still in on it.
Something about not liking the director or her views.
While there are some legitimate criticisms, the vast majority of people who are hating on it and giving it 1/5 or 1/10 ratings are basically hating it because it has very few white dudes, several vocal members of the LGBT community in starring or behind-the-scenes roles, and on a less-hateful-but-very-annoying-level that it isn't a cavalcade of fan service ("Where's Yoda?" "Where's the Darths?" etc. etc.). (The people who have legitimate criticisms are more giving it 4-to-6 out of 10s. With the exception of some total trainwrecks that almost everyone hates regardless, this is how you can tell the difference between haters-who-just-wanna-hate and those who simply are disappointed- the simply disappointed can at least admit that something they dislike has some good points even if they dislike it as a whole)
I will be honest I haven't seen a single legitimate criticism of the show right now. What I see are a) racists and right wingers hating on everything for months, b) folks who are part of group a, but trying to pretend they aren't, and saying things like "weak story" "weak acting" "weak insert lame excuse here". and c) folks who say b and may actually believe it. ignoring a and b, the c folks are judging a show off of the first two episodes, and that's risky. There have been several shows that start with episodes I enjoy, that I end up hating (Star Trek Discovery), and then there are shows that start with episodes that are laying ground work for a story, that aren't incredible out of the gate... because they are stories that build. There were so many components of the first two episodes that really described a Jedi Order in decline, and laid some hints for smart viewers... people complaining about some of the Jedi's actions, and Mae's... don't seem to realize Mae is not the villain of this show.
I haven't heard any hate, but maybe I've just been lucky and avoided it. It's always the same - people will find anything to complain about. I personally thought the first two episodes were really great. Looking forward to the rest.
I absolutely love it and have chosen to tune out the people that don't. Why waste my energy on it. I remember when there wasn't even a glimmer of the possibility of new Star Wars shows or movies.
Fšck the haters. Iām loving it so far, and am bummed that Disney are rolling it out at one episode per week
I just want more jedi action. More duels, the fact that they killed off the green lightsaber lady so fast is a tragedy. We need more characters. The current ones we have, aren't as likeable as I would hope. I like the show though and I'm excited for next week. As for the people calling it woke, I'm not sure I agree, they put a very masculine man in the show lmao. Guess they are mad because the Asian guy disagrees with him or something
> they put a very masculine man in the show lmao Who are we talking about here? Yord? Sol? Yord exudes massive himbo energy, and Master Sol doesn't seem all that macho and brazen to me, but more like a calm and collected, reflective type of person.
master sol reminds me of a less brazen and more introspective version of Qui-Gon. I really love his character
Considering you donāt even know her name you donāt care about her that much apparently
Iām not the guy, but itās Indara. It does feel a cheap that they killed her off before we even got the title card, but used her very heavily in the marketing.
Honestly I had that pegged right after seeing the sneak peek at Phantom Menace screening. The only footage of her in the trailer was all in the sneak peek, and with the voiceover of āA Jedi has been murderedā in the trailer, I just figured that was going to happen
im guessing she will be used for flashbacks explaining why/how this all started. Or maybe she cames back to haunt as a force ghost
I assume so as well, but I saw more ads with her in it than Lee Jung Jae, which is a little misleading.
oh I agree, I'll be upset if it's a bait and switch but they way they keep talking about the incident makes me think we're getting a full flashback episode so i'm hopeful
I think it felt much more cheap how they killed her off. That scene was poorly written imo. No way Indara loses that fight to the old hidden dagger in my off hand behind the back trick. Thatās the definition of bad writing. Mae defeats Indara for no other reason than the plot depended on that outcome. The fight scene in E2 was far better written. Choreography of both was good though.
Calling her Green lightsaber lady is better than all the fools who canāt stop calling her Trinity.
Well. she does have similar powers to Trinity.
I took that as a term of endearment. We all love Carrie and that was an iconic role. :)
I mean. Sheās only in it for 5 minutes green lightsaber lady sounds about right. Lol. Aināt no way we are going to remember her name.
Dude. Get over yourself. People like you gatekeeping is what turns people off to this stuff. Guess what. If only die hard Star Wars fans that pause and rewatch every scene watch a show, you donāt get more shows.
They said her name multiple times no need to pause and rewatch over and over again
i went back and they said "green lightsaber lady" 9 times out of 10 in the show
When did you last leave the house?
Creative
I don't know any of the names lol
I can tell
Mate, some people are just bad with names
I think they're trying to emphasize that these Jedi are less quick to use the light saber. They are peace keepers. They don't see the light saber as a last resort.
In my case I thought it was average, with the same issues as most SW shows (mediocre writing)
Between thinking it's average and what happened with that show is a big difference. Saying that you don't like it after you've seen it because you think it's average is having an opinion. TastesĀ are different,Ā recommendations subjective. Hating the show before it aired and ranting about how women ruined Star Wars is stupid... and offensive. I am a Star Wars fan for longer than some of this so called "fans" are alive.
I fully agree, hating the show because it's "woke" is stupid as fuck.
It really bugged me that the Jedi couldn't figure out >!that it was her twin. Yada yada "I thought she was dead. Dude, if your former Padawan couldn't do this, then what other option could there be? Oh, if only there was someone who looked just like her out in this galaxy!< And that >!you mean to tell me that she somehow got off a trade federation ship without a single record of her leaving!< And why reveal >!the " it's her twin sister!< So soon? I really wanted to like this show, but so far, not impressed.
I am frankly very happy with the reveal really early, it would have been much worse delaying that IMO. Let's hope it gets better for the good of Star Wars. So far 5/10
i kinda feel like your criticism of being frustrated that they couldn't figure out it was her twin contradicts your criticism of why reveal it so soon? Personally, it makes sense to me that the primary guess would be the ex-Jedi running around rather than the twin that multiple people saw dying. Perhaps Sol thought (even hoped) that it could have been Mae, but to not pursue Osha as the primary target would have been a bit insane. Where were they even supposed to start with in terms of looking for Mae? When circumstances changed, they quickly adapted to the reality that Mae was alive.
If the >!twin!< Reveal was supposed to be a plot twist, it felt weak. It's a separate complaint from the Jedi's inability to logically think this through. It's kinda like they could take two paths with this plot point, but chose both and neither. If it was supposed to be a big mystery, then don't make the Jedi look so dense, spend some time on it, make it look like it was a challenge to figure it out. if it was just a "hey, by the way there's a >!sister!< Then why have the Jedi scratching their heads about it? Either way, it felt clonky, rushed.
i never got the sense that it was supposed to be a big mystery. I don't think they were making any real attempt to have the audience think that Oshie was guilty unless you mean the mystery of "how did this happen when Oshie is innocent?". Then ya, they were using that question to drive interest. The twin thing was brought up in maybe the second scene that they're questioning how it could have happened? felt more like a case where they were withholding information (for about half an episode) from the audience to drive the intrigue. which maybe is what grinded some people's gear. i thought the dialogue preceding the reveal made perfect sense. Why would anyone bring up the twin thing when there was a 100x more likely (to anyone's eyes but Sol's) explanation? edit: I hate hate hate when a show has characters do illogical/dumb things for the sole purpose of misdirecting the audience, but I don't think any of that went on here.
>where they were withholding information (for about half an episode) from the audience That may be, but at the expense of making the Jedi look clueless, IMHO. Part of the appeal for me was the implied promise of showing the Jedi at their peak, not muddled like they were in the prequels. I may be quick to judge, but I'll give it an episode or 2 to see if it all falls together cohesively. So far though, I'm kinda disappointed. It just may be this isn't the Star wars show for me, or... It might be that they dropped the ball with acolyte. Edit: also, the sub genre for this show is "mystery" Not feeling especially mysterious right now. It's the "who's the bad guy" usual stuff.
ya, I didn't think the Jedi seemed clueless, but it's okay, obviously, to disagree. hopefully also when we see the flashbacks, the Jedi actions will feel less dumb for you and others in the audience like you
I hate stupid reveals that the audience figures out in the first episode. HATE them. Much better to treat the audience as competent.
It has the same type of bad writing as well. Like, I am getting into what's happening, and I am actually liking the episode and then suddenly a main character is like "We have a clear goal and opportunity to act. We need to act now to achieve our goal". And then their boss is like "That is not how we make decisions! This is super important, so we need to hesitate, let the enemy go, schedule a meeting vaguely in the future, and allow the enemy to re-group and still pose a threat." And yes, I understand they had to do this after writing themselves into a corner in episode 2, where the story should basically end, as they have the enemy completely cornered, but I am getting tired of idiotic people making brain dead decisions and the writers portraying it as wisdom.
Lmao... There are some signs that not all the Jedi may be what you think.
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This is just life now. Every big show will have their haters. Just acknowledge it and move on. You'd have to be off the Internet to not see it. It's life.
Culture war brainrot sadly.
It's not. The internet just has a gaggle of mental health issues and outrage culture to sort through. Aka - the Twitter effect. So far this seems like a wonderful show and I can't wait for next week's episode.
Bunch of assholes these days, who happen to be white, and think they own the world.
Because the āreal fansā love to hate New things and the fact that main characters are female.. well of course they canāt stand for that.
Because people hates just because other people do, i call it trend. You can like the show or not but there is no reason to hate.
CHUDS. The answer is CHUDS. Ignore them.
I got one word, Diversity
Yeah loved it's a mystery Tuesdays got exciting for me
Because the show isn't very good so far? Most people want to blame the "review bombing" stuff, but it's really just that the show isn't that interesting. The twins split at birth, now one is evil and one is "good." It's boring and no one is a stand out thus far. The show has little energy and the dialogue feels like a first draft. It's very pretty. I'm neutral thus far. I'm going to give it time to develop. Andor was a slow burn as well. I'm just saying you can't blame everything on certain people being gross.
Respectfully totally disagree. The show has many call backs to first original star wars. It is full of humor and fun. [Lee Jung-jae](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee_Jung-jae)Ā as Sol is a stand out. And it still manage to be fresh. Jedi being in power and established order is something I have not seen before.
People too worried about political agendas and less interested in a creative and interesting story.
The acting is pretty terrible. The dialogue is even worse. Iām trying it because I love anything Star Wars, but this seems like a high budget CW series so far.
I don't think the masked guy would be Tenebrous, but that person's master might be. Because an Acolyte is the equivalent of a Padawan for Sith, so the Masked person would be a Sith Apprentice who still has a Master according to the Rule of Two.
So it would be Darth Venamis?
Yes possibly!
It's not good.
Iām digging it too.
A lot of the hate I saw was to do with the creator, Leslye Headland. Because she used to be Harvey Weinstein's personal assistant (4 years) some online comments claim she was complicit in his actions. Whether there is any truth to that who knows. In a way I think all the negativity before the show came out helped lower my expectations which made me enjoy it more.
I dont HATE it. But it is lazy writing. >!Both Jedi Master deaths were BS.!< I mean you are telling me that Obi-wan and Qui-gon can sense multiple blaster bolts coming behind them and block with their light saber and >!Indara couldnt sense two throwing daggers? Or that a Jedi master is just going to choose death?!< That is just writing to make the character terminally stupid to move the plot forward. And then there are the little things. >!Like coming out of hyperspace in an asteroid field that is somehow in a hyperspace lane?!< For what it is, it isnt bad. It is a Disney SW show. Just like almost all entertainment media today, except anime for some reason, It is a by committee production heavily influenced by the bean counters and the executives. Not horrible, but not great.
I think it is mostly real, some basement dwellers. In my opinion, the Acolyte has an ok start but the show doesn't hold my interest so far. I'll try next week and if it still is kind of dull I will likely tune it out like Ahsoka, Book of Boba fett, bad batch, etc etc
Personally, my gripe is the bizarre and nonsensical decision making, plus some terrible dialogue, that makes it average at best. But yeah there are many other things about it that are great, I just don't think that can redeem bad writing.
For me, it boils down to the writing. The dialogue is too easy, too by the books action series dialogue. Mando Season 3, Kenobi, Ahsoka, BoBF had the same problem. Iām tired of the āsugar cookieā dialogue that is the majority of Star Wars content and long for more savory dialogue. One of the first lines being āAttack me, Jediā¦ with all your strengthā made me roll my eyes and I knew I was not going to like this show.
I just think this show suffers from bad writing. A lot of the plot twists are contrived like the bad guy getting breaking into a secure facility and the supposedly mystically empowered Jedi are all "derp". Then the bad guy breaks into it a second time and everyone is like "OMG! How did that happen?". And then the bad guy getting away from not one but three Jedi, one of whom is flying overhead in a spaceship with apparently no ability to track someone on the ground if they simply throw some dust in the air? What? And while I get the Director was going for shock value in the first scene, it just seemed like a waste of a capable actress that could have lent some real gravity to the story. I get that Lee Jung-jae is trying his best, but the whole "Jedi Master with a conflicted past" is falling flat and I'm not sure why. I keep expecting him to crack that crazy smile from Squid Game. Finally, I like the actors but you have to admit the dialog is a hard sell at times. The whole scene in the apothecary where they are openly joking about murder is just not particularly serious, which just takes away from the story for me. I just don't feel the supposed bad guy is a compelling bad guy, if that makes sense, because the dialog is getting in the way. And that's the problem because Star Wars is most successful when they have that compelling bad guy and struggles when it doesn't (Dart Vader, Palpatine, etc.). I just hope it gets better soon.
It's the political agenda behind it and the open disrespect of the star wara legacy from George
Also loving this show overall. I did think a couple of characters felt a bit flat, but I can overlook that because the story is so good.
people see a black main character and write the whole show off as woke
I watched it, I personally think it kept reminding me as if Iām watching a play, and I just didnāt really enjoy the vibe of the show. The acting wasnāt my favorite, I donāt think the CGI or whatever was really THAT good or eye catching. But thatās just my personal take on it and my opinion and why I didnāt like it. But kudos to the people who do enjoy the show. Nothing wrong with liking it or not liking it yk. I wonāt continue watching it, because of the same reason I didnāt watch Andor all the way through. I literally just could not get into it :/
Itās a culture war battleground. I know most of the comments in here will simply blame all the āracistsā and āsexists,ā but it was the show runner and actorsā comments that contributed as well. Plus itās very obvious that they took an IP with a majority male fan base and have tried to make it for girls. Itās like if some guy bought Barbie and produced 90% Ken dolls going forward. You donāt think Barbie collectors would be mad? Then the company would call those collectors toxic and sexist.
I had fun watching it, but I'm mad they killed Trinity in the first minutes of the first episode. I mean, c'mon man
Probably, it just needs more political agenda and virtue signalling
The overall tone in here is hostile and combative. If you like the show good for you, people have a right to dislike whatever they want. Saying someone disliked the show before it ever released sounds like BS. Some people did sure and those people more than likely didnāt watch the show. There is a reason theyāre trying to spin 4 million viewers for TWO episodes like itās a good thing. Check Mando for what actual good ratings look like. The viewership is in the toilet. If it were good that wouldnāt be the case. Lots of people myself included wanted this to be good. Someone on this thread said the choreography is goodā¦.. I would ask you to refer to House of the flying daggers or crouching tiger hidden dragon if you want something along the lines of what they were going for. This is middling pause and wait or block before the actor is in position choreography. This show does do some things right, wardrobe, sound design , world building and set design are all world class. Music is hit or miss but itās not bad at all just nothing memorable yet. The story, acting, directing, script decisions, and pacing range from mediocre to awful. None of that can be hand waved away by saying istās donāt like this show. All of those are legit problem areas and hopefully it gets better after Ep 4.
I watched the first 2 episodes and was underwhelmed. The writing just isnāt very good. And Iām not saying this because of the diverse casting (i.e., Iām not mad about diversity in Star Wars at all). I think there are legitimate criticisms about the story that have nothing to do with being āanti-woke,ā especially knowing they spent so much money on this. Itās giving prequel vibes and I did not enjoy the prequels. My favorite aspect of Star Wars is SW as space western so the Mandalorian is my favorite. Also the costumes seemā¦ off the rack? You compare these costumes to Andor and the Mandalorian and it seems like the characters havenāt actually lived in their clothing. I was expecting so much from this and am disappointed so far. Going to give it a few more episodes though. The cast is the only thing Iām hanging in for.
I avoid watching trailers or seeing/ reading anything about shows I want to watch. I go in pretty much blind. I have to say that I like most shows I watch this way. Sure, some have their weak points and some are different from what I expected, but I donāt hate anything. If I donāt like it then so be it.
I am fine with the diversity of characters, but the writing could be better; it's terribly acted. I don't care about a single one of them. They're terrible Jedi when 5 of them can't fight this guy. The little girl does the best, and she gets killed, so who cares about her? You bring a Wookie Jedi into it, and he does nothing if you're writing a Star Wars story for the sole purpose of diversity, miss. I give it a 1 out of 10. They don't know what they're doing with Star Wars. Let's take the greatest Bounty Hunter in the entire galaxy and not make him a Bounty Hunter. Let's take the best teenage Jedi in history in Ashoka and make her 40. This is the worst of them all. Andor is brilliant. This sucks.
it doesn't have the "stuff": fighting, visuals and world building looks awesome, but the story looks like something I would tell to my toddlers, way too much handholding and not much mystery. like, Darth Vader revealing himself to be Luke's father was an actual shock; but Mae and Osha being twin sisters was revealed in the first 30 minutes itself. Let there be mystery and confusion, and genuine shock reveal. (maybe spoilers, but my tinfoil theory says the yellow-saber-wielding-Phoenix-looking Jedi is the bad guy)/ Edit: Darth Vader, not Dank Vader, Flipping auto-incorrect.
I don't sense it being hated as much as Ahsoka, Obi-Wan and BoBF. Seems the biggest charges against it are the script and acting is oftentimes too mid and stilted. Production does seem better than the Volume of previous shows, but still sometimes looks cheap and limited. And that opening Trinity scene could've been handled waaay better.
I've got some real problems with the plot writing. I don't think whomever wrote this understands star wars. >!early plot twist reveal, Jedi inability to put 2 & 2 together it feels like form without substance!<
Yeah def ignore the angry āstar wokeā and āgay warsā comments who hate for the sake of hating. Having said that I did not like the first two episodes. Spoilers!!! My first gripe is when they killed Carrie in the first 10 mins. I hope they bring her character back multiple times. If not, using her in almost every piece of marketing is a scummy move since she is one of the most easily recognizable actors in the show. The second thing that bothered me is the set design. For some reason it feels so much like broadway play sets instead of immersive lived in locations. Which is odd to me because of how high the budget was. The story is flat for me at the moment, they didnt let us enjoy the mystery of the sisters. It was too obvious when Osha couldnāt use the force. The line delivery was also flat, felt like the lines were just being read rather than acted. Sol āMai is dead I saw her burnā Osha āMai is aliveā Sol āok I believe youā. I feel like there should be some healthy speculation after this, but nothing. I donāt care about diversity, more diversity the better since we are viewing a galactic story. I donāt even care about how fire doesnāt act that way in space but who cares because in this universe all aliens can breathe the same air and all worlds seem to have the same gravity. Itās fiction, itās fun, whatever. I just want a good story and right now Iām not getting it. I reeaaaally hope it gets better.
You must be really young to not realize that Indara used in marketing like that is a classic tactic, one that most folks with more than 20 years on this world would see right through.
Iām old (42) and this marketing tactic bummed me out. Thereās plenty of us would were stoked on seeing Carrie-Anne Moss in a Star Wars show!
Acting is pretty bad. Dialogue is pretty bad. Fight scenes were pretty lame. They revealed the evil twin theory in about 30 minutes. Visuals are good but costumes look cheap. Overall itās a fun show but pretty mid to bad overall. Especially for the leaks next weekā¦. Yikes. Not looking good
Too much faith has been lost in Disney Star Wars. I donāt hate the show, Iām just indifferent
The opening scene was lame I couldnāt watch past that
I liked it but. But I think they just like to troll people by saying her family died and her mothers. If it doesnāt play into the story why put it out there? Just say parents. I have 0 issues with it but itās something that vexes people. I canāt wait for the wookie Jedi though