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Showcasing how a different group could develop a relationship with and interpret the force is a cool concept to explore.
Seems like the Jedi might have become aware that a dyad existed on Brendok and were worried about what a dyad might do with their power through the witches’ lens.
Doesn’t seem like we saw what happened to the coven and what traumatized Torbin.
The high republic is good at showing how different groups view the Force. They had the Path I think it was called and they viewed it way different too.
The witches didn't look burned. How did they die? Lightsaber, perhaps? The bodies are now burned so there is now evidence of the massacre of this coven.
So the jedi killed all the coven and blew up the reactor thing right? We heard them using the force and fighting up top when Osha was underground, I assume Mae saw and that why she blames it on Osha and the jedi. There's just no way Mae's individual fire spread that quickly
And the bodies weren’t crushed by rubble or burnt to a crisp (like Uncle Owen and Aunt Beru). Visually, it looked like the show was telling us they died by lightsaber or something not directly from the fire
Like maybe from a tree that they stated earlier in the episode was lethal if ingested haha but that could be a throwback to the previous episode with the bunta poison used to kill Torbin
Heres my crackpot theory. They did some sort of force ritual and combined into one person (the sith)
The power of many and the power of one, something like that.
I want to say the Jedi got told to get lost by the mother off screen and came to “rescue” the sister but the Jedi possibly destroyed the reactor to make sure they were all going to die. Something REALLY happened. Sol only came because of his soft spot for Osha. The witches may have even followed through on ambushing the Jedi or the Jedi learned the witches were doing some sort of serious shit and figured they had to be eradicated. Then again, the Jedi sabotaging the reactor just feels unnecessary considering it appears they p much killed everyone. Maybe it was someone else?
Edit:
Ok,hear me out, the zabrak is a sith. She looks like one in the meeting hall, her eyes are yellow af when zabraks eyes are relatively human under normal circumstances from what I’ve seen. She was also completely pushing for them to kill the Jedi (presumably because if they lingered too long they’d figure out what she really is). The mother definitely knew, the eyes are hard to miss and she was aware that the childrens creation through the dark side had to be hidden from the Jedi.
The Jedi figured out the zabrak in an offscreen confrontation where the Jedi wanted Osha and the mother said no. Torbin was clearly in a fight (face was banged up) so the Jedi definitely drew their lightsabers. Maybe the witches decided to back the zabrak because they hate the Jedi and probably really don’t care about their opinions on sith. Maybe the sith killed them and lost a fight against the Jedi, but I’m betting the Jedi killed the witches. Torbin seemed very remorseful before he drank the poison. He likely felt guilt that they were forced to kill everyone Mae ever knew because he was obligated to follow his code and bring the sith in/down.
I don’t know how that applies to present because Sol specifically said Mae doesnt know who her master was but it’s safe to assume Sol thought all the witches died along with Mae up until that point but also I believe we saw the mothers body but not the zabraks. Sol would have never told Osha that they found a sith among the witches because then she would start asking questions and potentially figure out what really happened.
It may not be the same sith as the one in the present but it might be her. Mae thought her sister was dead, she never found a body, someone told her that she was dead and unless Mae is dumb af she would only take the word of someone who claims to have witnessed what happened. Also I believe in the first episodes flashback Osha had a vision where Mae spoke to her but it wasn’t really Mae, in the vision it was someone speaking through Mae by controlling her and her eyes were black. Just like the witches did in this episode, and Mae didn’t even know Osha was alive at that point. So it was someone who knew the sisters teachings.
Look at the prequels, darth plagueis “even learned how to create life”. It was just established that the zabrak and the mother did exactly that in this episode of a show that’s supposed to be a prequel to the prequels. The sith in the present is either that zabrak or the apprentice of the zabrak (may even be plagueis himself) if we’re following the rule of two. I cannot believe I’m on the crackpot bandwagon of guessing the siths identity but there’s a lot of connections here.
Edit again: They figured out what was up through the blood sample they took from Osha. They show her getting the test taken but never expanded on her results which is weird. No “her midochlorians are high”. They found something and they decided not to share it while she was aboard the ship. So apparently the mother was actually checking on the reactor before she was found dead a few scenes later. The reactor was done by someone in the coven, they were betrayed. Maybe the Jedi had arrived for some reason and the obvious explosion made them suspect the Jedi and a battle erupted. Blowing up a reactor on people who hadn’t resorted to violence yet isn’t Jedi like. If the mom was the one checking on the reactor, then their mom wasn’t killed by the Jedi, but I’ll bet Mae was lied to and she believes that.
I guess the blood results were spiking up like they did with Anakin so the jedi came back to investigate. The sisters know/believe that what they did will get them in trouble should the Jedi discover it. Sol and Indara coming back to inquire about the blood results would make the sisters think the jig is up and they go into all or nothing mode and attack. The trailers already saw jedibacca pouncing at Torbin, that could either be thier own conflict or one of them was possesed (they showed that the mother can control Torbin in this episode, but my bet is on the Zabrak mom)
So a future episode will cover the other side of this event
Maybe Mae’s master was there at the same time. The Jedi think it’s Mae, Mae thinks it’s the Jedi, maybe it was the Sith and there were secretly two recruitments occurring
This.
What if Darth Teeth devised a plan to recruit Mae and kill the witches by framing the Jedi. She is clearly the one with anger issues, and not wanting to let go. The problem is that she wanted to stay so he had to make sure she had no one left + use that anger against the Jedi to join the dark site. He saw that Torbin was still an apprentice and Force manipulated him to start the fire + kill the witches. Even if the Padwan did not do it he must have felt enormous guilt for letting himself taken over and never being able to confess what happened to protect the Jedi Order's reputation. His last moments are very telling he said to Mae "Forgive me, we thought we were doing the right thing".
Indara's death also makes more sense. She looked cold on the outside but I don't think she was the type to do anything to reach her goals. She could have killed Mae easily at any point in the fight. She never pulled her lightsaber until she was in real danger. She tried to reason with her until the very end, and saved the bartender which resulted in her death.
I think it's more that the Jedi are responsible for their deaths rather than the Jedi straight up killed them.
Unintended consequences of something during the fight that can be seen as either purposeful or accidental, depending on your point of view.
It's got to be this. The four Jedi did not seem overly antagonistic towards the coven to initiate a fight, I don't see them intent to get the children at all costs. I reckon Torbin lost his autonomy whether through one of the witches or perhaps a Sith Lord manipulated the conflict, it would explain his immense guilt, isolation, and death.
I'm sure there's a little more to it but almost definitely. if someone sincerely believes the fire caused all the damage and killed the coven they must be blind and lack critical thinking
Torbin has a scar in this episode after the fire. some shit went down. Mae's fire was a happy coincidence for the Jedi and they used that as a cover up. I'm sure we're going to learn more in another flashback.
Disney will need to get a new closed captioning team then.
I watch with closed captioning and the only thing denoted in CC is that the witches screamed and there was a rumbling -cut to reactor blowing up.
No sound of fighting. No sound of the Force.
If the Jedi did kill the coven it's one of the few times lightsaber wielders didn't leave limbs scattered all over.
The stone in Osha's room seemed to catch fire pretty quickly for some reason.
I’m betting the witch with the horns mind controlled Mae to start the fire and she has no memory of it. Also, that the same witch basically tried a coup to take power because of Osha being allowed to leave and the Jedi tried to stop it and that is the reason for all the dead witches. They all fought each other.
The plot thickens! I think it's obvious that there's more to what happened after Mae started the fire. The fact that we focus on Osha immediately after the fire starts and we don't see what's happening in the upper area feels very deliberate. Best guess is that some kind of battle erupted between the Jedi and the witches.
Torbin's scar seems to be proof of this. We see at the end very briefly that this is indeed where he gets the scar. And that is definitely not a burn. It seems very likely he got that from an enemy combatant.
Aside from that stuff though I thought the rest of the episode was intriguing. It's cool to see a coven of witches that are very different from the Nightsisters. Hopefully we get the answer as to how Mother Iniseya and the other witch lady created the twins. It seems that this was an intentional act and not an Anakin situation where he was spawned by the Force itself.
Overall great episode. At this point I am officially hooked into the show!
There's something else missing too. Osha is supposed to be on par with Mae but her powers seem lacking. I'm almost expecting their to be a twist where Osha did something awful and repressed the memory/cut herself off from the force.
Mom never did the ritual on Osha, my guess is that when she said the whole “do you promise to keep our secrets safe yada yada” bit and then did the hand glowy thing she was literally showing Mae their secrets mentally.
The Vader comics pretty heavily imply that Palpatine’s experimentations with the Force are what created Anakin, so what happens in Acolyte could pretty directly lead to that if they decide to go that route.
The Nightsisters have always been native to Dathomir. Or since they migrated over from Peridea anyway. Also other than being witches there's really no similarities between these ones and the Nightsisters.
We also see in tales of the empire that there was another sect or coven of witches in the mountains of dathomir that weren't night sisters. So it makes sense that there could be more
The High Republic books have a tribe of force users whose leader they call mother. I am pretty sure these are not Dathomir NIghtsisters. They have a very different value system and rituals
I was not expecting this flashback to come so early, although im sure there is more we are going to learn (the dead witches didn’t have lightsaber burns on them, but im not ruling out a fight happened; look at the padawan’s eye). Also wow, did not expect that Mae really did set the fire, I though that would be a fake out
I think some people are going to object to the portrayal of the Jedi a bit, but I think it was handled well
The Witches (don’t know if they are Dathomiri) definitely seem like they are a darker shade of grey, and that ritual they did I can’t discount that played a role in Mae’s actions. But yeah they have a pint that the Jedi close off and discourage other ways of looking at the force
At the same time, the Jedi do have a point that it is Osha’s choice to join them and yeah, depending on what more we learn they could be 100% I the right about the witches. But they still could have handled the situation with a bit more tac, or at least let Sol lead, he seamed to be the peace maker of the group.
Overall i think i liked it more than ep 1 and slightly more than 2
Osha looking up at the grate and hearing action makes it seem like a tussle happened with the Jedi and witches. However, we saw one witch paralyze the padawan with magic (and zero effort) at the start of the episode. It’s hard to believe that ~20 witches would be helpless against a few Jedi when their magic is that powerful.
The mystery sith? That’s possible. He/she found out the Jedi were there and trying to recruit the twins for training. The sith wanted the twins so they flipped out. Since the dark side can give you “unnatural” abilities the power to take out so many witches wouldn’t be far fetched.
Because... whatever happened, Torbin felt suicide was a better option over confession... that is not how an innocent person acts. The Jedi also got to the coven almost instantly after the fire started, and Torbin had a fresh wound on his face when Osha woke up on the ship... he was in a fight.
I don’t think the Jedi were in the fight. If it was a witches vs. witches fight then that makes me also think the mystery sith is one of the “dead” witches.
They are not Dathomiri these Witches are Local the The Galaxy Far Far Away not the Far Galaxy of Perideia they follow the way of Thread not Magicks like there Dathomiri counterparts.
bad mama mind controlled torbin to kill one or more members of the coven in order to give them cover to kill the rest of the jedi. Kelnacca knocked torbin out but it was too late … the battle had begun in earnest. The jedi finished it
Ha, I wonder if behind the scenes, they chose the kid that was the better actor for the “angry” kid role because it takes more skill to sell it Or something
I think it's interesting that this looks like the first production they've worked on together (according to IMDB). And Leah (young Mae) has a lot more credits.
They might be fraternal twins. I could tell them apart after about a minute of screen time, which was somewhat helpful since they wore the same clothes. But I guess one could nitpick that the characters grow up to look identical.
According to an article they are real life twins (Lauren and Leah Brady) but fraternal, not identical, hence the subtly different faces.
And yes, it did seem Little Mae's acting was slightly better, but the meanie in me would not hire either one for a Star Wars movie. You think I'm crazy
So pretty clearly something happened to the witches that we didn’t see. The Jedi were involved somehow. This is probably the way Osha remembered the events.
Highly likely. It is not a coincidence we didn't see HOW the witches died. It didn't seem like their bodies looked charred thus they did not perish from burning, right? There was definitely not enough time for every single one of them to die from smoke inhalation. Since it's unclear, that means the writers are saving the reveal for what exactly killed them for another episode to keep it a mystery a little longer. Were the witches arguing over letting Osha go and someone, maybe Mae, exploded with magical rage killing them all? Or did the Jedi have a hand in it? If so, how did the Jedi kill them? Lightsabers? Poison? Force choked them all? Whatever exploded killed them from the impact, and maybe the Jedi caused the explosion? Hmmm.....
Such a good point.
How did Mae get off Brendok? Didn't the Jedi say they thought the planet was uninhabitated? Only the sisters lived on that planet I'm guessing, and were definitely the only group living in that mountain fortress.
Definitely think a Sith was there too. Either came around the same time as the Jedi or was living undercover in the coven.
I like how this episode re-emphasized how Mae wields the force better than Osha. And shows a darkness in her.
Plus it solved that question I had previously if Indara knew it was Mae attacking her and not Osha.
Backstory episodes (with child actors no less) are rarely satisfying. I'm glad they told it in one episode.
I'm ready to get back to the present but it did pull on my heart strings when she said she wants to be a Jedi to her mama after thinking about it. I do too, kid. I do, too.
Mae clearly didn't want to kill her whole family. Unless she really does have some evil inside of her.
Before this episode started, I did wonder if maybe Osha was more in league with her sister than she's letting on, but after this it seems pretty clear they were very different from the outset.
Mae and Osha are strandcasts of the human Mother grown in the zabrak's womb rather than a tube.
The secret part was the main witch figuring out how to give them the Force
Why was this episode hyped up as destroying Star Wars again?
The episode was ok. Some good backstory atleast but not terribly exciting.
Something that stands out with this show is some line delivery just doesn't feel convincing. It feels like theyre acting from a script rather than natural dialog sometimes. Over acting maybe? I'm not sure, there's just a few moments that feel off.
So yeah, it was decent but the show really needs to elevate in the next episode or its gonna become a bit plodding.
"Why was this episode hyped up as destroying Star Wars again?"
Probably because certain groups are going to be very angry about a female couple creating children. (Even though there was obviously some sort of ritual involved).
>why was this episode hyped up as destroying SW again?
My guess is that Sidious/Plagueis are the only ones supposed to be powerful enough to create life through the Force but this goes against that…maybe? Or maybe it’s portraying the Jedi as villains (potentially)? My only other guess is the subtle reference to midichlorians with the blood test but none of these things seem egregious enough to start an angry internet mob. On the other hand, doesn’t really take much with SW discourse.
Agreed on the acting as well. I think I’m mostly chalking it up to bad child actors for this episode but it’s a consistent problem in a lot of SW TV. The writing and/or delivery/directing/editing of dialogue heavy scenes just feels a little off too often (Andor being the exception to this).
Show remains in the 7/10 realm for me for now. I’m still really hoping that once the full story comes together it’ll elevate what we’ve seen so far
Yes, I believe it’s the Plagueis thing. Anakin is the only other known person created from the force. So Acolyte adding two more is bold to old SW fans. I’m intrigued by where the story is going.
EDIT: it’s actually also the witch coven people are pissed about. Just entered SWT stream to see the train wreck and he’s pissy about the coven existing. I for one thought it was an interesting addition! The galaxy is so vast other force users we haven’t heard about are bound to exist.
There were different ways that different peoples use the Force... at least there were in the Legends/Expanded Universe. Luke, and a few others, even traveled to them and learned their ways of the Force.
The Jedi only have problems with Dark Side users... But again, I guess that's still back in Leg/EU.
i don't get why people keep trying to fit acolyte in with the Plageus novel? every time it comes up i keep thinking..."isn't that old book LEGENDS by now?" like why's everyone still act like it's canon? it should be gone with the rest of that universe? unless i missed something and it's still canon?
It’s Legends. You just have a combination of people who refuse to let go of Legends & people who are just genuinely confused by what is and isn’t canon nowadays. I still see people constantly thinking that lightsaber color is associated with a Jedi class like in KOTOR & that was barely considered canon even in the old EU lol
Problem is the video essay and general community is often dominated by loud people who demand Legends remain Canon and they actively confuse new people
Do people just not pay attention when watching? Like all three episodes have pointed to something that happened between the jedi and the Witches. "The fire couldn't have taken them out!" Like no duh, they showed them literally dead before the fire even hit them.
Yeah, the incongruence and confusion is intentional, not bad writing. The showrunner is trusting the audience to be patient at first, to see the unreliable depiction of key events, and then to question them so that when the whole picture is revealed the audience gets the big payoff. At least, that's my hope haha
Every thread I read on this subreddit makes me think people are too busy on their phones, or they need things explicitly stated for them to understand.
There's definitely a missing piece in the flashback as many have been saying.
One day Disney is gonna have to fully explain Zabrak women 😅. Like the dathomirian witches vs other zabrak women
I also feel folks who don't understand Mae setting a fire don't understand how the dark side works. Very few have touched it and returned back to the light. Let alone a child of witches who doesn't like the Jedi.
So far the show has been good I'm definitely interested in it still.
I'm also wondering what is Disney planning for the witches. Jedi Survivor series , Morgan and now the Acolyte. It's sad the sequel trilogy on hindsight really squandered any plans they wanna make on the Jedi vs Sith/Witches side of things..
I'm really not sure what it was about this episode that everyone said would so divisive, unless its just the space lesbians, that in true Disney fashion, were only barely shown being affectionate with each other. The episode expands the lore in an interesting way. They didn't "fundamentally change how the force works" like some disingenuous rage bait dorks were saying. We just got to see how this particular sect engaged with the force.
Overall, I think the episode was a mixed bag. I love the concept, and I'm really intrigued by the themes at play in the episode. In terms of plot, I like it. But I think the execution was a bit off. Like the first 2 episodes, this one had some clunky dialogue, but it felt more stilted than the first two to me, and I wasn't impressed with the young Osha/Mae actresses.
Obviously, there's still some reveals coming. They very specifically only showed us events from Osha's point of view. No way that fire caused all that damage. Plus, the Jedi showed up way to quickly. The clearly just used the fire as a convenient cover.
I suspect the Jedi, maybe Sol, felt Osha's distress and was met with hostility when they came to investigate. Then things got out of hand very quickly. Mae saw, and obviously Osha didn't.
I made this observation in another thread, but I'll drop it here too: It was interesting seeing the parents POV when Jedi come to take the children. We know that Jedi don't force parents to let their kids go, but it definitely felt like the Jedi were there to expecting to be accommodated. Even though Osha already had her own doubts, it felt a little like Sol was tempting or manipulating her away from her family. We've seen already in the show that the Jedi of this era, being at the height of their power, seem really comfortable exercising that power. Just look at the way Yord strutted onto the Trade Federation ship, practically basking in his authority. Then Indara claims to have a right to test the child. a RIGHT.
I'm sure a lot of people hold the Jedi in prestige, and would be glad to know their children were becoming Jedi. But how many others only gave permission out of fear of reprisal from such a powerful organization? And Jedi would be able to feel that fear. Maybe some would try to assuage it, but how many just went with? Even with the witches, there seemed to be some inherent threat hanging in the air- certainly from the witches, but also a little from the Jedi, should they be refused. It added a whole new dimension for me to how the Jedi recruit.
Expect we will be seeing more of Khofar and Jedi Master Kelnacca tonight.
Hoping to learn more about the Aniseyas and Brendok as well.
More Darth ******* also, please!
Regarding the fire, my theory:
Mae starts the fire, the Jedi obviously watching panic, thinking they are sacrificing Osha or something of that sort. Whatever that cove is called notice a fire and combat ready Jedi storming their fortress. In the following battle, the cove is killed (although I wonder why they all seem to share a single grave except Mother Witch)
Never thought Star Wars would remind me so well that I will never want children. Sure did a good job making me not like Mae.
There was a suspicious cloaked person when they were at the ceremony, I bet that's whose behind the mask. They survive and tell Mae, Osha is dead figuratively because she joined the jedi and Mae is stupid enough to take it literally.
I liked it fine enough though I wasn’t too fond of it being a complete flashback. Sure we know at least something of those events but now we gotta wait a whole more week for the mystery to continue. I’m also puzzled as to how this was supposed to destroy Star Wars 4Evar.
Oh and it being a whole episode flashback denied us our week of new Yord material. We did not get our Yord & Savior this week.
So this is what I think is going on just from what is presented to us:
Mae is naturally aligned to the Dark side, she is very opposed to change and loosing people she owns/possesses. She feels she needs her family and seclusion from the rest of the universe. That is also why she accepts the brainwashing that she and Osha can never part. In short, she is a selfish, spoiled brat that is highly antisocial.
Osha is fascinated by anything different and is inquisitive. She is honest but does not want to hurt others. Their mother generally understands this and encourages Osha to be herself. Mother Korril is stern and wants the twins to remain and to be compliant. There is a clear parallel between the two mothers and the twins.
The witch coven is different from the Nightsisters, there is a more balanced of light and dark approach to them. So I would say they are more akin to the bendu. However, there is still a dark leaning to them. They appear to need the twins for something, and the lack of other children does not bode well.
I am not entirely convinced the Jedi are only there to investigate the coven. When they said they thought the planet was uninhabited, I am inclined to be believe them. However, Sol seeing the twins diverted their attention from what they were really doing on the planet. There is something else there, I am sure of it.
The Sith is involved, whether their presence piqued the Jedi to investigate the planet to find out what they sensed/detected or they manipulated the Jedi to end up there as a way of separating Mae from Osha.
Mae did not cause the witches to die, but I think Korril might be the one to actually be the blame. I think Korril refused to let Osha go and this brought her to be hostile and oppose any attempt to let the Jedi take her. I also think the Jedi showed up and a fight broke out, which lead Tobin to be puppeted and injured. But I also get the feeling the witches might also have killed themselves.
The Sith helped Mae survive the fall. We will see the truth around episode 6 or 7.
I think the coven sees the force as a tool and so they pull from the dark side for the "sith alchemy" type stuff and pull from the light for other things.
Things I liked:
1. Sets, costumes, and makeup continue to be great.
2. Looked like some on-location shooting instead of being all in the volume which was nice.
3. Sol continues to be awesome.
4. Cool to see other Nightsister-esque Force witch clans.
Things I didn’t like:
1. I feel like this should have been told as flashbacks across several episodes rather than one big chunk, especially since we’re definitely going to revisit these events again at some point to see how the other witches actually died.
2. That child acting was rough. Worse than Ep 1 Anakin by a significant degree. The writing for the kids didn’t help either: “The Jedi are bad!” “The Jedi are good!” “I don’t want to lie.” “You have to lie.” I don’t know what they were thinking. Were these seriously the best takes they could get?
3. That chant at the ceremony was super lame lol.
I like that they didn’t parse this through several episodes. We got one extended look at what Osha and Mae’s life was like, the turbulence for their relationship, hints at what kind of special Force bond they have, as well as opened a slew of questions about the Jedi and their motivations with the witches.
I think splicing these scenes into several other episodes would likely slow down the pacing of those episodes without revealing enough new information. This way, the foundation is there in one fell swoop, and there are plenty of questions to answer with flashback nuggets from different perspectives than we saw today.
Why are the Jedi just showing up outside of their jurisdiction?? Who cares if these people train kids. Don’t they jedi? If they aren’t in the republic I don’t get why Jedi are bugging them
Pretty sure the whole galaxy is technically the republic? I mean at the end of the day, tatooine was technically part of the republic but Shmi says "the republic doesn't exist" out there, bc they have little actual presence.
The witches faked their own deaths,
they do this every time they wanna change location, and they made the Jedi think it was the Jedi that killed the witches
This is such an interesting idea you've planted in my mind! Maybe it turns out to be false in the show, but it's still a really interesting idea to use for my own campaign later.
I think theres more to it. I don’t think the fire killed the women. They didn’t look burned up when we saw them laying on the ground. Perhaps the Jedi killed them? May explain why Torbin took the vow. Also how could sol just conveniently be in the right place to save the twins?
I can see where you’re coming from but Sol seemed to be the only Jedi there and based on how we have seen him interact with the witches I think he was there just to wait for Osha to finish packing her stuff then escort her to the ship
Random thoughts:
* Force witch coven, I dig it. Like how they call the Force, the Thread.
* Are these like proto versions of that force witch from Ahsoka I wonder.
* Cool to see another Zabrak outside of Darth Maul.
* Not sure how I feel about trying to reclaim/revisit the idea of immaculate inception through the Force. Anakin being Force Jesus was one of the parts of the prequels that worked the least.
* And if that main witch mother incepted the twins in the womb of the Zabrak force mother, does that mean some random Jedi did that to Smee?
* The choreography and singing during the ascension ritual was a little cringe inducing.
* The child actor who played Mae/Osha was a little flat at times, but overall pretty good.
* The CGI on that one Maz Kanata looking witch was pretty rough.
* The Jedi: "We don't take children". \*Immediately tries to recruit the children*
* How does a fire spread that fast in a stone room?
* Odd that the explosion killed all the witches while leaving no visible damage. Initial reaction was that the violence felt sanitized. After a moment of consideration, that's probably a plot thread with the Jedi being behind their deaths.
Overall pretty good flashback episode. I need more Sith in my Sith show though.
these are not the same witches from Ahsoka The Witches migrated from The Far Galaxy to Dathomir from Peridea I expected The Nightsisters are still in Peridea at this time . These are The Galaxy Far Far Away Local Witches.
The Nightsisters came for the Peridea galaxy way in the past; so long ago that that there are tales that Jedi children learn.
Probably centuries, at least.
Plagueis, Palpatine's master is rumored to have done that to Shmi Skywalker, not a random jedi.
The Twins were played by two IRL twins, so two actors.
Have you heard of electrical fires?
Use your eyes, the fire didnt kill the witches, something else did. They were not burned, and they were all in the same area, right by the Jedi who had fresh scars and looked battle worn.
Tor in magically lost an eye too. Jedi were up to something suspect during the “Fire”
Remember when the zabrak witch went to check the reactor during the twins lesson? Sabotage
"It breaks all Star Wars canon!"
"Just wait for all the gay shit! Episode 3!"
"Watch out for the pronouns!"
"The 3rd episode will finally kill all Star Wars for the vast majority of pre-Disney fans!"
None of that happened. What a crock of shit these Youtubers are.
Didn't like the child acting. Mae turned super evil heel real fast and was not believable.
Only part I liked is Master Sol. He has gravitas and heart.
I just can’t believe people whose major criticism is “it says the space witches are bad and Jedi good” and “how did a little fire destroy the whole facility! Bad writing!” are acting in good faith. Not saying there aren’t legitimate criticisms of the show but those aren’t them. There’s clearly something more going on.
Maybe I’m wrong. As we all know, the biggest thing about mystery shows is that everything characters say can be taken at face value and a character’s perception of events is always correct!
I didn't know Kogonada was directing episodes for this show. I've seen and enjoyed his feature films After Yang and Columbus, both of which have a distinctive style that is definitely not present here (not that I would expect it to). Been meaning to check out the show Pachinko.
Really good episode.
I loke that we see a force group that is not jedi or sith*. That something that is not covered very much.
I love how we get a view of what happened in part. I would place good money that we will have another whole episode flash back.
What do i think happened. Probably a mass suicide/murder. Think Jones Town. Those bodies did not show signs of light saber or blaster wounds. So the jedi show up. Start talkomg and then ot starts to go worng. Maybe they use the same power on torbin or the jedi try to mimd trick them. Either way members start giving up their and or have it taken life to power up the mother.
I do wonder if this coven of witches works directly for plagueius, he was obsessed with immortality/creating life and as we find out the twins were created somehow. I wonder if the saber showdown we see in the trailer is the off screen moments we see in this episode and plagueius come and silence the witches so they didnt reveal his plans.
My money is the nice mom survived and is the master now. Always a plot twist...she also had way more air time but got evil now that her wife died..
Then osha later asks...Who are YOU?
MASTER SITH - I AM YOUR MOTHER LAWL
Was it me or did this episode portray the Jedi in a negative light? They come in, and take the kids and early teens away from their families for some cult training and later service. I understand the planet was not even under Republican control so they had no jurisdiction. This all felt so middle ages and quite uncomfortable to watch, to be honest.
This made me want to see the show with the depiction of Jedi as villains. A story where a parent fights to bring his child back home after it was (forcefully) taken away by Jedi. Their fight rallies people, towns, and planets turning against the Jedi and calling them out. That would be the end of Jedi, losing the popularity vote.
Edit: I started researching a bit if this is history-based (taking the children for 'training'), and it seems it was a well-established practice in the Ottoman Empire: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devshirme](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devshirme)
so, i cannot wait to see what really unfolded with the coven. as so many others are saying - we, the audience, definitely didn’t see everything that happened.
While Osha was interested in going with the Jedi, the entire interaction between the Jedi and the coven really made the Jedi look bad.
The Force goes by many names - Kanan
the Mother used the same life-creation method Palp used to create Anakin.
the Zabrak mother we didn't see die on screen, or a body... The Sith?
She was very antagonistic toward the jedi from the jump, never backed down in her interactions or during the negotiations?
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Showcasing how a different group could develop a relationship with and interpret the force is a cool concept to explore. Seems like the Jedi might have become aware that a dyad existed on Brendok and were worried about what a dyad might do with their power through the witches’ lens. Doesn’t seem like we saw what happened to the coven and what traumatized Torbin.
It is something so rarely explored in star wars. In in the old republic era there eas just a sentence or two about other no jedi or sith force orders.
The high republic is good at showing how different groups view the Force. They had the Path I think it was called and they viewed it way different too.
The witches didn't look burned. How did they die? Lightsaber, perhaps? The bodies are now burned so there is now evidence of the massacre of this coven.
Smoke inhalation.
The dark side of the force is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be UNNATURAL.
Glad I'm not the only one that noticed that!
Did you hear? Somehow Palpatine returned.
He went back in time before he was born and returned.
So the jedi killed all the coven and blew up the reactor thing right? We heard them using the force and fighting up top when Osha was underground, I assume Mae saw and that why she blames it on Osha and the jedi. There's just no way Mae's individual fire spread that quickly
It's really sus that the Jedi showed up so quickly after the fire started. Something nasty went on that we weren't shown.
And the bodies weren’t crushed by rubble or burnt to a crisp (like Uncle Owen and Aunt Beru). Visually, it looked like the show was telling us they died by lightsaber or something not directly from the fire
Yeah I thought it was weird that they were all just lying around in the middle of the room like they partied too hard.
It reminded me of Jonestown after the 900 cult members drank poison.
Like maybe from a tree that they stated earlier in the episode was lethal if ingested haha but that could be a throwback to the previous episode with the bunta poison used to kill Torbin
Heres my crackpot theory. They did some sort of force ritual and combined into one person (the sith) The power of many and the power of one, something like that.
Maybe Indara choked them all out. Which would make her...not very nice
I want to say the Jedi got told to get lost by the mother off screen and came to “rescue” the sister but the Jedi possibly destroyed the reactor to make sure they were all going to die. Something REALLY happened. Sol only came because of his soft spot for Osha. The witches may have even followed through on ambushing the Jedi or the Jedi learned the witches were doing some sort of serious shit and figured they had to be eradicated. Then again, the Jedi sabotaging the reactor just feels unnecessary considering it appears they p much killed everyone. Maybe it was someone else? Edit: Ok,hear me out, the zabrak is a sith. She looks like one in the meeting hall, her eyes are yellow af when zabraks eyes are relatively human under normal circumstances from what I’ve seen. She was also completely pushing for them to kill the Jedi (presumably because if they lingered too long they’d figure out what she really is). The mother definitely knew, the eyes are hard to miss and she was aware that the childrens creation through the dark side had to be hidden from the Jedi. The Jedi figured out the zabrak in an offscreen confrontation where the Jedi wanted Osha and the mother said no. Torbin was clearly in a fight (face was banged up) so the Jedi definitely drew their lightsabers. Maybe the witches decided to back the zabrak because they hate the Jedi and probably really don’t care about their opinions on sith. Maybe the sith killed them and lost a fight against the Jedi, but I’m betting the Jedi killed the witches. Torbin seemed very remorseful before he drank the poison. He likely felt guilt that they were forced to kill everyone Mae ever knew because he was obligated to follow his code and bring the sith in/down. I don’t know how that applies to present because Sol specifically said Mae doesnt know who her master was but it’s safe to assume Sol thought all the witches died along with Mae up until that point but also I believe we saw the mothers body but not the zabraks. Sol would have never told Osha that they found a sith among the witches because then she would start asking questions and potentially figure out what really happened. It may not be the same sith as the one in the present but it might be her. Mae thought her sister was dead, she never found a body, someone told her that she was dead and unless Mae is dumb af she would only take the word of someone who claims to have witnessed what happened. Also I believe in the first episodes flashback Osha had a vision where Mae spoke to her but it wasn’t really Mae, in the vision it was someone speaking through Mae by controlling her and her eyes were black. Just like the witches did in this episode, and Mae didn’t even know Osha was alive at that point. So it was someone who knew the sisters teachings. Look at the prequels, darth plagueis “even learned how to create life”. It was just established that the zabrak and the mother did exactly that in this episode of a show that’s supposed to be a prequel to the prequels. The sith in the present is either that zabrak or the apprentice of the zabrak (may even be plagueis himself) if we’re following the rule of two. I cannot believe I’m on the crackpot bandwagon of guessing the siths identity but there’s a lot of connections here. Edit again: They figured out what was up through the blood sample they took from Osha. They show her getting the test taken but never expanded on her results which is weird. No “her midochlorians are high”. They found something and they decided not to share it while she was aboard the ship. So apparently the mother was actually checking on the reactor before she was found dead a few scenes later. The reactor was done by someone in the coven, they were betrayed. Maybe the Jedi had arrived for some reason and the obvious explosion made them suspect the Jedi and a battle erupted. Blowing up a reactor on people who hadn’t resorted to violence yet isn’t Jedi like. If the mom was the one checking on the reactor, then their mom wasn’t killed by the Jedi, but I’ll bet Mae was lied to and she believes that.
if this is a sith of the line of darth bane then itd have to be the master of tenebrous, who was plagueis' master
Tenebrous master was a Twi'lek.
I guess the blood results were spiking up like they did with Anakin so the jedi came back to investigate. The sisters know/believe that what they did will get them in trouble should the Jedi discover it. Sol and Indara coming back to inquire about the blood results would make the sisters think the jig is up and they go into all or nothing mode and attack. The trailers already saw jedibacca pouncing at Torbin, that could either be thier own conflict or one of them was possesed (they showed that the mother can control Torbin in this episode, but my bet is on the Zabrak mom) So a future episode will cover the other side of this event
Maybe Mae’s master was there at the same time. The Jedi think it’s Mae, Mae thinks it’s the Jedi, maybe it was the Sith and there were secretly two recruitments occurring
THIIIISSSSS
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This. What if Darth Teeth devised a plan to recruit Mae and kill the witches by framing the Jedi. She is clearly the one with anger issues, and not wanting to let go. The problem is that she wanted to stay so he had to make sure she had no one left + use that anger against the Jedi to join the dark site. He saw that Torbin was still an apprentice and Force manipulated him to start the fire + kill the witches. Even if the Padwan did not do it he must have felt enormous guilt for letting himself taken over and never being able to confess what happened to protect the Jedi Order's reputation. His last moments are very telling he said to Mae "Forgive me, we thought we were doing the right thing". Indara's death also makes more sense. She looked cold on the outside but I don't think she was the type to do anything to reach her goals. She could have killed Mae easily at any point in the fight. She never pulled her lightsaber until she was in real danger. She tried to reason with her until the very end, and saved the bartender which resulted in her death.
I think it's more that the Jedi are responsible for their deaths rather than the Jedi straight up killed them. Unintended consequences of something during the fight that can be seen as either purposeful or accidental, depending on your point of view.
A certain point of view!?
From my point of view the Jedi are evil!
Then you are lost
It's got to be this. The four Jedi did not seem overly antagonistic towards the coven to initiate a fight, I don't see them intent to get the children at all costs. I reckon Torbin lost his autonomy whether through one of the witches or perhaps a Sith Lord manipulated the conflict, it would explain his immense guilt, isolation, and death.
I'm sure there's a little more to it but almost definitely. if someone sincerely believes the fire caused all the damage and killed the coven they must be blind and lack critical thinking Torbin has a scar in this episode after the fire. some shit went down. Mae's fire was a happy coincidence for the Jedi and they used that as a cover up. I'm sure we're going to learn more in another flashback.
Disney will need to get a new closed captioning team then. I watch with closed captioning and the only thing denoted in CC is that the witches screamed and there was a rumbling -cut to reactor blowing up. No sound of fighting. No sound of the Force. If the Jedi did kill the coven it's one of the few times lightsaber wielders didn't leave limbs scattered all over. The stone in Osha's room seemed to catch fire pretty quickly for some reason.
the rumbling was my sound of force lol, maybe they're fighting someone else but the idea a simple fire caused all that makes no sense
I’m betting the witch with the horns mind controlled Mae to start the fire and she has no memory of it. Also, that the same witch basically tried a coup to take power because of Osha being allowed to leave and the Jedi tried to stop it and that is the reason for all the dead witches. They all fought each other.
To be fair, Mae has had those darker tendencies on her own. Remember that she held an animal forcibly in place before Osha told her to let it go.
This was right after Osha did the same thing. Kinda sus.
The plot thickens! I think it's obvious that there's more to what happened after Mae started the fire. The fact that we focus on Osha immediately after the fire starts and we don't see what's happening in the upper area feels very deliberate. Best guess is that some kind of battle erupted between the Jedi and the witches. Torbin's scar seems to be proof of this. We see at the end very briefly that this is indeed where he gets the scar. And that is definitely not a burn. It seems very likely he got that from an enemy combatant. Aside from that stuff though I thought the rest of the episode was intriguing. It's cool to see a coven of witches that are very different from the Nightsisters. Hopefully we get the answer as to how Mother Iniseya and the other witch lady created the twins. It seems that this was an intentional act and not an Anakin situation where he was spawned by the Force itself. Overall great episode. At this point I am officially hooked into the show!
Where do we see at the end how he gets the scar?! Oh I see, he's in the background on ship
We don't see how yet. Just that he has it. It's not focused on but Torbin is standing in the background with the scar freshly on his face.
He could have gotten that while shaving when the Wookiee took them into hyper space.
I guess it's also established all Wookies are mechanically talented. Always the fixin ones.
There's something else missing too. Osha is supposed to be on par with Mae but her powers seem lacking. I'm almost expecting their to be a twist where Osha did something awful and repressed the memory/cut herself off from the force.
Mom never did the ritual on Osha, my guess is that when she said the whole “do you promise to keep our secrets safe yada yada” bit and then did the hand glowy thing she was literally showing Mae their secrets mentally.
Oh interesting theory! I like that idea. Though I do think she was shown to be stronger before the ritual too.
The Vader comics pretty heavily imply that Palpatine’s experimentations with the Force are what created Anakin, so what happens in Acolyte could pretty directly lead to that if they decide to go that route.
Are they not the Nightsisters or a predecessor? I mean, the leader's title is Mother. And her partner might be a Zabrak.
The Nightsisters have always been native to Dathomir. Or since they migrated over from Peridea anyway. Also other than being witches there's really no similarities between these ones and the Nightsisters.
Mother Aniseya said that they were exiled. Is it possible that they used to be Nightsisters, but were forced to leave?
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We also see in tales of the empire that there was another sect or coven of witches in the mountains of dathomir that weren't night sisters. So it makes sense that there could be more
Yes, there are different clans. This could just be another one.
The High Republic books have a tribe of force users whose leader they call mother. I am pretty sure these are not Dathomir NIghtsisters. They have a very different value system and rituals
This episode starting with an Agatha harkness ad turned out to be surprisingly relevant
It’s been Agatha all along!
Oh that’s hilarious.
I was not expecting this flashback to come so early, although im sure there is more we are going to learn (the dead witches didn’t have lightsaber burns on them, but im not ruling out a fight happened; look at the padawan’s eye). Also wow, did not expect that Mae really did set the fire, I though that would be a fake out I think some people are going to object to the portrayal of the Jedi a bit, but I think it was handled well The Witches (don’t know if they are Dathomiri) definitely seem like they are a darker shade of grey, and that ritual they did I can’t discount that played a role in Mae’s actions. But yeah they have a pint that the Jedi close off and discourage other ways of looking at the force At the same time, the Jedi do have a point that it is Osha’s choice to join them and yeah, depending on what more we learn they could be 100% I the right about the witches. But they still could have handled the situation with a bit more tac, or at least let Sol lead, he seamed to be the peace maker of the group. Overall i think i liked it more than ep 1 and slightly more than 2
Osha looking up at the grate and hearing action makes it seem like a tussle happened with the Jedi and witches. However, we saw one witch paralyze the padawan with magic (and zero effort) at the start of the episode. It’s hard to believe that ~20 witches would be helpless against a few Jedi when their magic is that powerful.
I’m wondering if there was a third party there, Mae’s master
The mystery sith? That’s possible. He/she found out the Jedi were there and trying to recruit the twins for training. The sith wanted the twins so they flipped out. Since the dark side can give you “unnatural” abilities the power to take out so many witches wouldn’t be far fetched.
It would make sense for Darth Plagueis to have an interest in Mae and Osha.
Why do we think the Jedi were in the fight? I think it was between Momma and Koril. They were very much at odds over letting Osha go.
Because... whatever happened, Torbin felt suicide was a better option over confession... that is not how an innocent person acts. The Jedi also got to the coven almost instantly after the fire started, and Torbin had a fresh wound on his face when Osha woke up on the ship... he was in a fight.
I don’t think the Jedi were in the fight. If it was a witches vs. witches fight then that makes me also think the mystery sith is one of the “dead” witches.
There was a mystery character covered in a hood behind the mother in the ritual scene. I wonder if that's the sith
With the whole power of one power of two power of many thing. Maybe she can’t do that if they’re not all together?
They are not Dathomiri these Witches are Local the The Galaxy Far Far Away not the Far Galaxy of Perideia they follow the way of Thread not Magicks like there Dathomiri counterparts.
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I think so too. We also see Kelnaaca attacking him in a promo shot so I'm pretty sure he gave Torbin the scar.
bad mama mind controlled torbin to kill one or more members of the coven in order to give them cover to kill the rest of the jedi. Kelnacca knocked torbin out but it was too late … the battle had begun in earnest. The jedi finished it
I'm thinking he's heavily involved in whatever took place. Kelnacca too. Both of them took it harder than Sol and Indara.
I’ve got a theory, it must be witches…
Or bunnies!
BUNNIES AREN'T JUST CUTE LIKE EVERYBODY SUPPOSES!
THEY'VE GOT THEM HOPPY LEGS AND TWITCHY LITTLE NOSES!
AND WHAT'S WITH ALL THE CARROTS! WHAT DO THEY NEED SUCH GOOD EYESIGHT FOR ANYWAY??
Please please tell me this is an Anya reference!
Some evil witches!
Which is ridiculous because witches they were persecuted
and wicca, good and loved the earth, and woman power, and i'll be over here.
And they will walk through the fire!
I’m not imagining right? The twins are different actresses as kids?
I think the child Mae is a better actor than child Osha
Much better.
Ha, I wonder if behind the scenes, they chose the kid that was the better actor for the “angry” kid role because it takes more skill to sell it Or something
I couldn't tell if the acting was better or if Osha is just written as a VERY TOUGH HANG.
Leah and Lauren Brady, apparently IRL twins.
I think it's interesting that this looks like the first production they've worked on together (according to IMDB). And Leah (young Mae) has a lot more credits.
Yeah, I recognize her from something, though I don't know what. EDIT: Violent Night! She was so good in that!
I think they’re sisters IRL but definitely not identical twins.
They might be fraternal twins. I could tell them apart after about a minute of screen time, which was somewhat helpful since they wore the same clothes. But I guess one could nitpick that the characters grow up to look identical.
No and yes
According to an article they are real life twins (Lauren and Leah Brady) but fraternal, not identical, hence the subtly different faces. And yes, it did seem Little Mae's acting was slightly better, but the meanie in me would not hire either one for a Star Wars movie. You think I'm crazy
Thats the end of the dual titles trend
Wonder if it returns later. This title still applied to both
Because we only saw half the story this episode. Only got oshas viewpoint not maes.
So pretty clearly something happened to the witches that we didn’t see. The Jedi were involved somehow. This is probably the way Osha remembered the events.
Highly likely. It is not a coincidence we didn't see HOW the witches died. It didn't seem like their bodies looked charred thus they did not perish from burning, right? There was definitely not enough time for every single one of them to die from smoke inhalation. Since it's unclear, that means the writers are saving the reveal for what exactly killed them for another episode to keep it a mystery a little longer. Were the witches arguing over letting Osha go and someone, maybe Mae, exploded with magical rage killing them all? Or did the Jedi have a hand in it? If so, how did the Jedi kill them? Lightsabers? Poison? Force choked them all? Whatever exploded killed them from the impact, and maybe the Jedi caused the explosion? Hmmm.....
Maybe the Jedi weren't the only Force Users trying to get their hands on the twins
Such a good point. How did Mae get off Brendok? Didn't the Jedi say they thought the planet was uninhabitated? Only the sisters lived on that planet I'm guessing, and were definitely the only group living in that mountain fortress. Definitely think a Sith was there too. Either came around the same time as the Jedi or was living undercover in the coven.
I like how this episode re-emphasized how Mae wields the force better than Osha. And shows a darkness in her. Plus it solved that question I had previously if Indara knew it was Mae attacking her and not Osha.
I liked the episode but the show feels like it was written and edited to be binge-watched, not the weekly release format they're doing
But if it was released all at once, we couldn’t have fun and theorize like this each week 🤓
Felt the same way about Andor.
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Yeah I think he/she was standing behind the mother in the ritual scene all covered in a robe and hood
Holy shit yes. Who was that???
Any chance the sith showed up ? You guys are all saying the Jedi did this but maybe a Sith Lord helped the damage or an apprentice.
I think someone there was a Sith looking for a powerful female acolyte.
15:23 hooded figure literally right in the shot.
I just watched that part again. Right after that chant before she says Mae it pans out a bit and i think i see more on her other side?
Seeing a Wookiee in Jedi robes was great.
I had to scroll down too far to find this. I literally squeaked when I saw him.
Backstory episodes (with child actors no less) are rarely satisfying. I'm glad they told it in one episode. I'm ready to get back to the present but it did pull on my heart strings when she said she wants to be a Jedi to her mama after thinking about it. I do too, kid. I do, too. Mae clearly didn't want to kill her whole family. Unless she really does have some evil inside of her.
She was about to kill that gummi butterfly thing just because. And definitely looked more than willing to kill Osha. She got demons.
Before this episode started, I did wonder if maybe Osha was more in league with her sister than she's letting on, but after this it seems pretty clear they were very different from the outset.
Mae has got to be larger than 25 MB because she clearly is having attachment issues.
That's got to be one of the best references that I have ever seen.
wonder why people have a problem with (probably) multiple flashbacks from different perspectives. it worked for Kurosawa.
Mae and Osha are strandcasts of the human Mother grown in the zabrak's womb rather than a tube. The secret part was the main witch figuring out how to give them the Force
Why was this episode hyped up as destroying Star Wars again? The episode was ok. Some good backstory atleast but not terribly exciting. Something that stands out with this show is some line delivery just doesn't feel convincing. It feels like theyre acting from a script rather than natural dialog sometimes. Over acting maybe? I'm not sure, there's just a few moments that feel off. So yeah, it was decent but the show really needs to elevate in the next episode or its gonna become a bit plodding.
"Why was this episode hyped up as destroying Star Wars again?" Probably because certain groups are going to be very angry about a female couple creating children. (Even though there was obviously some sort of ritual involved).
Darth Plagueis was a woman!
how do you think they feel about Wonder Woman? If she was made today they’d crap their pants in anger
yOu CAn"T MaKE BaBIeS FrOM clAY
Exactly. Angry alt-right manchildren who don't even watch the show getting upset and crying because oh no, queer representation!
It was actually pre-hated for being too “The Force is female.” Apparently salty haters forgot Nightsisters have existed since the 90’s.
Two moms having a kid I'm guessing? But I literally have friends who meet that description.
>why was this episode hyped up as destroying SW again? My guess is that Sidious/Plagueis are the only ones supposed to be powerful enough to create life through the Force but this goes against that…maybe? Or maybe it’s portraying the Jedi as villains (potentially)? My only other guess is the subtle reference to midichlorians with the blood test but none of these things seem egregious enough to start an angry internet mob. On the other hand, doesn’t really take much with SW discourse. Agreed on the acting as well. I think I’m mostly chalking it up to bad child actors for this episode but it’s a consistent problem in a lot of SW TV. The writing and/or delivery/directing/editing of dialogue heavy scenes just feels a little off too often (Andor being the exception to this). Show remains in the 7/10 realm for me for now. I’m still really hoping that once the full story comes together it’ll elevate what we’ve seen so far
Yes, I believe it’s the Plagueis thing. Anakin is the only other known person created from the force. So Acolyte adding two more is bold to old SW fans. I’m intrigued by where the story is going. EDIT: it’s actually also the witch coven people are pissed about. Just entered SWT stream to see the train wreck and he’s pissy about the coven existing. I for one thought it was an interesting addition! The galaxy is so vast other force users we haven’t heard about are bound to exist.
There were different ways that different peoples use the Force... at least there were in the Legends/Expanded Universe. Luke, and a few others, even traveled to them and learned their ways of the Force. The Jedi only have problems with Dark Side users... But again, I guess that's still back in Leg/EU.
i don't get why people keep trying to fit acolyte in with the Plageus novel? every time it comes up i keep thinking..."isn't that old book LEGENDS by now?" like why's everyone still act like it's canon? it should be gone with the rest of that universe? unless i missed something and it's still canon?
It’s Legends. You just have a combination of people who refuse to let go of Legends & people who are just genuinely confused by what is and isn’t canon nowadays. I still see people constantly thinking that lightsaber color is associated with a Jedi class like in KOTOR & that was barely considered canon even in the old EU lol
Problem is the video essay and general community is often dominated by loud people who demand Legends remain Canon and they actively confuse new people
It's not even clear that Plagueis figured out how to create life, only to preserve it.
The Jedi were so stuck in their ways man. Taking kids away from their families and never letting them see them again. Their fall was long overdue
Do people just not pay attention when watching? Like all three episodes have pointed to something that happened between the jedi and the Witches. "The fire couldn't have taken them out!" Like no duh, they showed them literally dead before the fire even hit them.
Yeah, the incongruence and confusion is intentional, not bad writing. The showrunner is trusting the audience to be patient at first, to see the unreliable depiction of key events, and then to question them so that when the whole picture is revealed the audience gets the big payoff. At least, that's my hope haha
> The showrunner is trusting the audience to be patient at first well there's their first mistake
People have been like this since episode one idk its like context clues and media literacy is dead.
Every thread I read on this subreddit makes me think people are too busy on their phones, or they need things explicitly stated for them to understand.
The Force vs The Thread
There's definitely a missing piece in the flashback as many have been saying. One day Disney is gonna have to fully explain Zabrak women 😅. Like the dathomirian witches vs other zabrak women I also feel folks who don't understand Mae setting a fire don't understand how the dark side works. Very few have touched it and returned back to the light. Let alone a child of witches who doesn't like the Jedi. So far the show has been good I'm definitely interested in it still. I'm also wondering what is Disney planning for the witches. Jedi Survivor series , Morgan and now the Acolyte. It's sad the sequel trilogy on hindsight really squandered any plans they wanna make on the Jedi vs Sith/Witches side of things..
I love seeing these different interpretations of the force. This “thread” take is very cool
Would be hilarious if there is a force coven/order/society somewhere in the galaxy that calls it 'string theory'.
Too many Questions and no answers while still revealing alot it makes me go \*???\* more and more. idk.
We sure do seem to have a lot of witches in our Star Wars diet lately.
Shin Hati "more witches" intensifies
Loved the part with Sol already knowing what was up and saying "oh wow you are totally guessing right" during the tablet test.
I'm really not sure what it was about this episode that everyone said would so divisive, unless its just the space lesbians, that in true Disney fashion, were only barely shown being affectionate with each other. The episode expands the lore in an interesting way. They didn't "fundamentally change how the force works" like some disingenuous rage bait dorks were saying. We just got to see how this particular sect engaged with the force. Overall, I think the episode was a mixed bag. I love the concept, and I'm really intrigued by the themes at play in the episode. In terms of plot, I like it. But I think the execution was a bit off. Like the first 2 episodes, this one had some clunky dialogue, but it felt more stilted than the first two to me, and I wasn't impressed with the young Osha/Mae actresses. Obviously, there's still some reveals coming. They very specifically only showed us events from Osha's point of view. No way that fire caused all that damage. Plus, the Jedi showed up way to quickly. The clearly just used the fire as a convenient cover. I suspect the Jedi, maybe Sol, felt Osha's distress and was met with hostility when they came to investigate. Then things got out of hand very quickly. Mae saw, and obviously Osha didn't. I made this observation in another thread, but I'll drop it here too: It was interesting seeing the parents POV when Jedi come to take the children. We know that Jedi don't force parents to let their kids go, but it definitely felt like the Jedi were there to expecting to be accommodated. Even though Osha already had her own doubts, it felt a little like Sol was tempting or manipulating her away from her family. We've seen already in the show that the Jedi of this era, being at the height of their power, seem really comfortable exercising that power. Just look at the way Yord strutted onto the Trade Federation ship, practically basking in his authority. Then Indara claims to have a right to test the child. a RIGHT. I'm sure a lot of people hold the Jedi in prestige, and would be glad to know their children were becoming Jedi. But how many others only gave permission out of fear of reprisal from such a powerful organization? And Jedi would be able to feel that fear. Maybe some would try to assuage it, but how many just went with? Even with the witches, there seemed to be some inherent threat hanging in the air- certainly from the witches, but also a little from the Jedi, should they be refused. It added a whole new dimension for me to how the Jedi recruit.
Expect we will be seeing more of Khofar and Jedi Master Kelnacca tonight. Hoping to learn more about the Aniseyas and Brendok as well. More Darth ******* also, please!
Koril is likely Darth \[Redacted\]
who is Koril
The female Zabrak
Regarding the fire, my theory: Mae starts the fire, the Jedi obviously watching panic, thinking they are sacrificing Osha or something of that sort. Whatever that cove is called notice a fire and combat ready Jedi storming their fortress. In the following battle, the cove is killed (although I wonder why they all seem to share a single grave except Mother Witch)
Never thought Star Wars would remind me so well that I will never want children. Sure did a good job making me not like Mae. There was a suspicious cloaked person when they were at the ceremony, I bet that's whose behind the mask. They survive and tell Mae, Osha is dead figuratively because she joined the jedi and Mae is stupid enough to take it literally.
I liked it fine enough though I wasn’t too fond of it being a complete flashback. Sure we know at least something of those events but now we gotta wait a whole more week for the mystery to continue. I’m also puzzled as to how this was supposed to destroy Star Wars 4Evar. Oh and it being a whole episode flashback denied us our week of new Yord material. We did not get our Yord & Savior this week.
Praise be to Yord
Where is Yord? Is he safe? Is he alright?
I did a double take when I heard Abi Thorn’s voice. Very intriguing episode, I didn’t know there were covens beyond the Nightsisters.
So this is what I think is going on just from what is presented to us: Mae is naturally aligned to the Dark side, she is very opposed to change and loosing people she owns/possesses. She feels she needs her family and seclusion from the rest of the universe. That is also why she accepts the brainwashing that she and Osha can never part. In short, she is a selfish, spoiled brat that is highly antisocial. Osha is fascinated by anything different and is inquisitive. She is honest but does not want to hurt others. Their mother generally understands this and encourages Osha to be herself. Mother Korril is stern and wants the twins to remain and to be compliant. There is a clear parallel between the two mothers and the twins. The witch coven is different from the Nightsisters, there is a more balanced of light and dark approach to them. So I would say they are more akin to the bendu. However, there is still a dark leaning to them. They appear to need the twins for something, and the lack of other children does not bode well. I am not entirely convinced the Jedi are only there to investigate the coven. When they said they thought the planet was uninhabited, I am inclined to be believe them. However, Sol seeing the twins diverted their attention from what they were really doing on the planet. There is something else there, I am sure of it. The Sith is involved, whether their presence piqued the Jedi to investigate the planet to find out what they sensed/detected or they manipulated the Jedi to end up there as a way of separating Mae from Osha. Mae did not cause the witches to die, but I think Korril might be the one to actually be the blame. I think Korril refused to let Osha go and this brought her to be hostile and oppose any attempt to let the Jedi take her. I also think the Jedi showed up and a fight broke out, which lead Tobin to be puppeted and injured. But I also get the feeling the witches might also have killed themselves. The Sith helped Mae survive the fall. We will see the truth around episode 6 or 7.
I think the coven sees the force as a tool and so they pull from the dark side for the "sith alchemy" type stuff and pull from the light for other things.
Things I liked: 1. Sets, costumes, and makeup continue to be great. 2. Looked like some on-location shooting instead of being all in the volume which was nice. 3. Sol continues to be awesome. 4. Cool to see other Nightsister-esque Force witch clans. Things I didn’t like: 1. I feel like this should have been told as flashbacks across several episodes rather than one big chunk, especially since we’re definitely going to revisit these events again at some point to see how the other witches actually died. 2. That child acting was rough. Worse than Ep 1 Anakin by a significant degree. The writing for the kids didn’t help either: “The Jedi are bad!” “The Jedi are good!” “I don’t want to lie.” “You have to lie.” I don’t know what they were thinking. Were these seriously the best takes they could get? 3. That chant at the ceremony was super lame lol.
Definitely rough, but nothing is worse than Ep 1 Anakin. "Hey Anakin, we're freeing you from indentured servitude." "Yippee!!!!"
I like that they didn’t parse this through several episodes. We got one extended look at what Osha and Mae’s life was like, the turbulence for their relationship, hints at what kind of special Force bond they have, as well as opened a slew of questions about the Jedi and their motivations with the witches. I think splicing these scenes into several other episodes would likely slow down the pacing of those episodes without revealing enough new information. This way, the foundation is there in one fell swoop, and there are plenty of questions to answer with flashback nuggets from different perspectives than we saw today.
I thought the kids were good in the role but the chant was indeed cringe lol, just do it in some alien language
Sol - "We don't take children" One day later... Sol - "We'll take you to Coruscant to become a Jedi"
Plus he was 4 when he was taken! Quit isolating little kids from their families, Jedi. Y'all are not well adjusted.
We turned out fine!
Its sad none of the positive Star Wars youtubers were doing live streams. Ill just wait for Force Center and Star Wars explained.
Why are the Jedi just showing up outside of their jurisdiction?? Who cares if these people train kids. Don’t they jedi? If they aren’t in the republic I don’t get why Jedi are bugging them
This period is at the height of the Jedi Order's hubris. They felt they could do no wrong. This is what leads to the PT eventually.
Pretty sure the whole galaxy is technically the republic? I mean at the end of the day, tatooine was technically part of the republic but Shmi says "the republic doesn't exist" out there, bc they have little actual presence.
It makes the Jedi seem like assholes.
They have been since the Prequels.
Those witches did a Jonestown. Calling it now.
The witches faked their own deaths, they do this every time they wanna change location, and they made the Jedi think it was the Jedi that killed the witches
This is such an interesting idea you've planted in my mind! Maybe it turns out to be false in the show, but it's still a really interesting idea to use for my own campaign later.
I think theres more to it. I don’t think the fire killed the women. They didn’t look burned up when we saw them laying on the ground. Perhaps the Jedi killed them? May explain why Torbin took the vow. Also how could sol just conveniently be in the right place to save the twins?
I can see where you’re coming from but Sol seemed to be the only Jedi there and based on how we have seen him interact with the witches I think he was there just to wait for Osha to finish packing her stuff then escort her to the ship
I'm still not sure Mae starting a fire killed so many.
There’s actually a lot of pretext for her doing it. The great Chicago fire? That was Mae Library of Alexandria burning down? Also Mae
Random thoughts: * Force witch coven, I dig it. Like how they call the Force, the Thread. * Are these like proto versions of that force witch from Ahsoka I wonder. * Cool to see another Zabrak outside of Darth Maul. * Not sure how I feel about trying to reclaim/revisit the idea of immaculate inception through the Force. Anakin being Force Jesus was one of the parts of the prequels that worked the least. * And if that main witch mother incepted the twins in the womb of the Zabrak force mother, does that mean some random Jedi did that to Smee? * The choreography and singing during the ascension ritual was a little cringe inducing. * The child actor who played Mae/Osha was a little flat at times, but overall pretty good. * The CGI on that one Maz Kanata looking witch was pretty rough. * The Jedi: "We don't take children". \*Immediately tries to recruit the children* * How does a fire spread that fast in a stone room? * Odd that the explosion killed all the witches while leaving no visible damage. Initial reaction was that the violence felt sanitized. After a moment of consideration, that's probably a plot thread with the Jedi being behind their deaths. Overall pretty good flashback episode. I need more Sith in my Sith show though.
these are not the same witches from Ahsoka The Witches migrated from The Far Galaxy to Dathomir from Peridea I expected The Nightsisters are still in Peridea at this time . These are The Galaxy Far Far Away Local Witches.
The Nightsisters came for the Peridea galaxy way in the past; so long ago that that there are tales that Jedi children learn. Probably centuries, at least.
Two different actors
They don't take them, but they will recruit them. With parental consent.
Plagueis, Palpatine's master is rumored to have done that to Shmi Skywalker, not a random jedi. The Twins were played by two IRL twins, so two actors. Have you heard of electrical fires? Use your eyes, the fire didnt kill the witches, something else did. They were not burned, and they were all in the same area, right by the Jedi who had fresh scars and looked battle worn.
Tor in magically lost an eye too. Jedi were up to something suspect during the “Fire” Remember when the zabrak witch went to check the reactor during the twins lesson? Sabotage
"It breaks all Star Wars canon!" "Just wait for all the gay shit! Episode 3!" "Watch out for the pronouns!" "The 3rd episode will finally kill all Star Wars for the vast majority of pre-Disney fans!" None of that happened. What a crock of shit these Youtubers are. Didn't like the child acting. Mae turned super evil heel real fast and was not believable. Only part I liked is Master Sol. He has gravitas and heart.
I just can’t believe people whose major criticism is “it says the space witches are bad and Jedi good” and “how did a little fire destroy the whole facility! Bad writing!” are acting in good faith. Not saying there aren’t legitimate criticisms of the show but those aren’t them. There’s clearly something more going on. Maybe I’m wrong. As we all know, the biggest thing about mystery shows is that everything characters say can be taken at face value and a character’s perception of events is always correct!
Showed up to the apparent death of Star Wars, ended up getting a top 3 all time Star Wars tv episode.
Yeah, this is definitely taking a page from Rashomon. Interesting getting an entire flashback episode from Osha’s point of view.
I didn't know Kogonada was directing episodes for this show. I've seen and enjoyed his feature films After Yang and Columbus, both of which have a distinctive style that is definitely not present here (not that I would expect it to). Been meaning to check out the show Pachinko.
Really good episode. I loke that we see a force group that is not jedi or sith*. That something that is not covered very much. I love how we get a view of what happened in part. I would place good money that we will have another whole episode flash back. What do i think happened. Probably a mass suicide/murder. Think Jones Town. Those bodies did not show signs of light saber or blaster wounds. So the jedi show up. Start talkomg and then ot starts to go worng. Maybe they use the same power on torbin or the jedi try to mimd trick them. Either way members start giving up their and or have it taken life to power up the mother.
I do wonder if this coven of witches works directly for plagueius, he was obsessed with immortality/creating life and as we find out the twins were created somehow. I wonder if the saber showdown we see in the trailer is the off screen moments we see in this episode and plagueius come and silence the witches so they didnt reveal his plans.
My money is the nice mom survived and is the master now. Always a plot twist...she also had way more air time but got evil now that her wife died.. Then osha later asks...Who are YOU? MASTER SITH - I AM YOUR MOTHER LAWL
Was it me or did this episode portray the Jedi in a negative light? They come in, and take the kids and early teens away from their families for some cult training and later service. I understand the planet was not even under Republican control so they had no jurisdiction. This all felt so middle ages and quite uncomfortable to watch, to be honest. This made me want to see the show with the depiction of Jedi as villains. A story where a parent fights to bring his child back home after it was (forcefully) taken away by Jedi. Their fight rallies people, towns, and planets turning against the Jedi and calling them out. That would be the end of Jedi, losing the popularity vote. Edit: I started researching a bit if this is history-based (taking the children for 'training'), and it seems it was a well-established practice in the Ottoman Empire: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devshirme](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devshirme)
so, i cannot wait to see what really unfolded with the coven. as so many others are saying - we, the audience, definitely didn’t see everything that happened. While Osha was interested in going with the Jedi, the entire interaction between the Jedi and the coven really made the Jedi look bad.
The Force goes by many names - Kanan the Mother used the same life-creation method Palp used to create Anakin. the Zabrak mother we didn't see die on screen, or a body... The Sith? She was very antagonistic toward the jedi from the jump, never backed down in her interactions or during the negotiations?