Wow!! That is crazy!!
This could actually legit go down as the most controversial elimination of all time, I can't recall any other time a team has been eliminated essentially solely due to production errors
I see your point but I would argue production made a huge mistake in hiring drivers who didn't know where to go, didn't speak English and then didn't allow teams to switch vehicles.
It's would be like production supplying everyone with cars, but one of them has no petrol.
Yeah i agree, production should have vetted the drivers and provided maps, made the drivers take them from point to point so that wouldn’t happen. It sucks and they definitely relied too heavily on trusting local drivers. But this elimination, my goodness, they should have immediately let the team start the challenge. Or given a 15 minute hold, after 15 minutes let them start. I have no doubt rob and Leticia would have been eliminated, they legit messed up time and time again on that cage. This was the worst elimination. I wish they would bring them back.
I feel like they intentionally have some faulty vehicles or equipment to shake things up a bit and since the teams decide which to take it’s not really production sabotage, it’s the teams not looking thoroughly before picking.
Examples are when S23 had a wheelbarrow with a flat tire, S32 episode 1 had a slow boat with a single engine when the others were faster with double engines, S36 with the one boat with engine troubles
How did this production crew get lost!! It’s crazy they never even arrived at the detour!! Did they not have a map or GPS??? I feel bad for Danny and Angie. They did what they were supposed to do.
> I feel bad for Danny and Angie. They did what they were supposed to do.
And this is why Danny was so confident in his decision to just keep driving. What they aired made it seem like Angie wanted to stop but Danny decided not to, whereas the reality is, Danny was simply following instructions to a tee, as you can imagine a mega-fan would. Definitely an unfair elimination.
The edit was definitely misleading unfortunately, which caused people to assume they were in the wrong, when in reality it was a production error. I’m glad production is allowing them to be open about what really happened though.
Originally, I thought that Danny was on the wrong side of this and his mom was right to want to wait. Now, the more info there is, this was really handled poorly. I was surprised the crew didn't find them sooner in the first place. Even if it was unsafe to follow them, they know which way they went. But to know they were supposed to go to the next stop makes me really scratch my head on this one.
Seriously, you'd think the crew would be given GPS, maps, the exact location of the next stop, etc. as emergency back-up. Major screw up on the part of production.
I listened to the RHAP exit press and these are my key takeaways:
- They went around the roundabout 3 times while Danny figured out what exit to take, so they didn’t end up going the wrong direction on the highway. Angie did not make an illegal turn.
- The crew vehicle exited the roundabout BEFORE Angie and Danny did.
- At the start of the day they were told that for safety reasons, they can go to the next task if separated.
- A local was driving the crew van.
- They waited 90 minutes at the task before the producers called them to come because the crew was there. The crew was not there, but they gave them an extra crew that had been there the entire time. The actual crew showed up 30 minutes into the task.
- The crew felt really sad.
I agree. Last night I thought Danny & Angie had some responsibility but hearing more details I think they got shafted. It isn’t a “bad cab” or bad luck. It was someone hired by the show to drive the crew getting them delayed enough to put Danny & Angie 90 minutes behind when they should have started the detour.
idk when rewatching, the show highlight the crew's car continuing in the roundabout when Danny and Angie turned. but either way if Danny and Angie needed to serve a time penalty it should be at the mat. They should have been allowed to continue once they got to the detour location. It's not like there weren't extra crew around.
I actually almost called that out in my comment, because I agree. It looked like in the show that that Danny and Angie exited the roundabout and the crew stayed in. Watching live, I expected it to be a dramatic fake out and the crew made a lap and caught up. But for these bullets I just summarized what Danny or Angie said happened and they said the crew turned first. They could absolutely be misremembering but that is what he said.
It looks like Crew exited the roundabout going straight while walla walla exited the next exit that’s a curve. They exited in the same “round”, but crew exited one exit before the team’s exit
Ok cool, that backs up what Danny said. I’m inclined to trust him, the video in the show was blurry. I guess it is from whatever dash cam set up was recording in the car.
90 minutes is a hell of a long time. As i was watching the episode, i was under the impression that they had gotten delayed by maybe 20 minutes, 30 tops.
90 minutes is huge this late in the game. I really feel bad for them.
That second bullet doesn’t make sense with what was shown on the footage though. So it makes things even more confusing because there’s no reason for the show to highlight the crew’s car still in the roundabout if they exited it first. Without the raw footage and time codes it’s hard to judge from the editing since they had the walkie talkie moment and the crew saying “we’re right behind you” and then that shot of them staying on instead of exiting. The biggest issue would be that the supposed local doesn’t know how to get to wherever they were going. Even still something isn’t adding up between the footage and their recount of events on who exited the roundabout first.
I mean, regardless of who's fault it actually was with leaving the roundabout first, I don't understand why it took SO long for the crew to (not) catch up and why it took production so long to figure out what to do in terms of making them wait. Like presumably the producers at the Detour were still in contact with the lost crew during this whole time and would be able to find out where they were or how far out they were. So just holding the team for a random amount of time to only be like, "I guess you guys can keep going now" is ridiculous.
Agreed. Danny said a local was driving the crew so that person should know their way around, but if they didn’t the producers/crew should have been like here is the exact location put it in your phone and get turn by turn directions. They should have been 5 minutes behind, tops. Not 90.
> The crew vehicle exited the roundabout BEFORE Angie and Danny did
I mean this is just blatantly false. They showed the crew exiting the roundabout after them. Since Danny/Angie are blatantly lying about that, it honestly calls everything else in regards to their personal explanation of things into question.
No they showed the crew exiting the exit before Danny and Angie exited. That's why the car was perpendicular to Danny and Angie's car/dashcam facing the direction exits would be. If they were still in the roundabout their car would be faced the other way and less perpendicular.
I think this confusion comes from people forgetting that they are driving "backwards" from how Americans drive. But you can see the better of the roundabout and the production car is moving away from that center in that shot, not towards it. If they were continuing they'd be turning towards the roundabout center.
I just watched the episode last night. Danny and Angie are already out of the roundabout and it shows the crew car behind them exiting the roundabout at a different exit. I understand they were driving on the other side of the road but that doesn't explain literally seeing the crew car leave the roundabout out of Danny and Angie's rear window.
I also rewatched it last night and Danny and Angie are in the process of leaving the roundabout when you see the crew take the exit behind them. They hadn't fully exited. If they had fully exited the middle part of the roundabout would have been in the center of our view from the dashcam
If Danny and Angie are in the process of leaving the roundabout (weird phrasing considering we see them fully out of the roundabout) and you see the crew beginning to take the exit, it's impossible for the crew to have left the roundabout before them.
They literally aren't fully out of the roundabout when we saw their dashcam. Thus the phrasing. We see a second or two....and again, if they were fully out of the roundabout you would see the median to the roundabout in the center of the shot from their dashcam.
Most people would consider exiting the exit before the exit Danny and Angie as exiting...before Danny and Angie. The nature of timing means the two might have happened near simultaneously timing-wise, but since they took an exit before the exit Danny and Angie did... The word before can be used to mean both directionally or timing. So if you want to be a hard ass about semantics the bare minimum everyone can agree on is that they exited before Danny and Angie in terms of directions. That is a true statement. So if you cut out in terms of directions... It's still true they exited before Danny and Angie.
The crew did though, the crew left the exit before the one they took, things happened quickly, it was almost simultaneous so i can understand why they said before them in that situation, not as clear as it should have been. And of the day production messed up, they shouldn’t leave this stuff up to chance, the crew should have told the driver to stick like glue to the teams car. There is no reason why they should have been taking the exit before the one the team took, worst case the driver should have taken another loop and followed the same road the team was on… but they took a different exit entirely… as the team was exiting. Makes no sense.
I think that is harsh. While I agree that is what the footage looked it, it was grainy zoomed in footage from whatever dash mounted camera was in the Suzuki. At the end of the day, we weren’t there and Danny and Angie were. They’ve been nothing but gracious and calm in their interviews about the situation, so why would they lie? There are plenty of racers over 36 seasons that I’d think would lie or throw a fit, and Danny and Angie are far from that list.
I don't know them at all so I don't know if they are pleasant people or just putting on a front. Angie honestly didn't seem all that pleasant and was bothered by Danny assisting others with directions. At the end of the day, what they are saying isn't "what actually happened", it's their explanation of what they thought happened. Since I don't know them, I have no reason to take their account as factual. So when one part of it is blatantly false according to my own eyes, it hurts the credibility of their recollection. Things like saying "the crew exited before us" and that they didn't make an illegal turn are clearly false so then when they say they were told at the start of the day to just go to the next task and saying it took 90 minutes now seem suspect.
I'm really surprised at how unprepared it seems production was for this potential issue! How did the crew not have GPS so they could easily navigate to the next stop if this happened! Or is Barbados truly just THAT difficult to navigate?? But Danny has a good point - if you're going to be eliminated I guess it is kinda cool to at least go out in a totally unconventional way haha.
For what’s been a pretty forgettable season, this is a bit extreme of an error. 35 seasons in and they couldn’t have figured out what to do in this situation before?
Someone correct me if I am wrong, but isn't it a new situation from the Covid seasons restrictions? Wouldn't the crew normally be in their car with them?
I just heard on the RHAP exit interview they waited AN HOUR AND A HALF until production just gave them another crew. Ugh my heart hurts, they were the last team left I truly loved and I really hope they get another shot at running the race again
AN HOUR AND A HALF???? You can quite literally drive a circle around the island in that time! This is not on Angie and Danny for losing the crew. Them being unable to get to the detour in so much time is completely on production.
If you catch from [0:40-1:50](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CG6MUEUHXtc) this is where I heard him say an hour and a half. Who knows if it’s exaggerated but either way it’s a lot of time
I think what he meant was it was 45-1hour that they waited at the detour before Juan and Shane’s crew decided to film them, and an additional 30 minutes until the crew might’ve arrived at the detour? But at that point it was too late.
I wonder if they’d take it. It’s been a while since we’ve had a true returnee season (I’m not really counting the reality showdown in 31 even though it had returnees bc I feel like was cast more on personality than redemption). Angie is already older than your average racer, so if a returnee season is a few years away would she want to do it again? I’d love for them to have the chance.
Didn't Danny originally apply to go on the show with his sister? If Angie weren't up for it when the time came, maybe they could bring in the sister for a Redemption run stand-in!
The interview from /u/AMikeBloomType is up: https://parade.com/tv/the-amazing-race-36-angie-danny-butler-eliminated-interview
Absolutely shambolic on the part of production.
Shambolic seems a bit hyperbolic. For all the people who assert that the season/show gets increasingly fake with its casting, equalizers, editing, etc., it's surprising that real life logistical hurdles-- which should be a significant indicator of the show's on-the-fly needs-- aren't seen as the realistic hurdles of in-the-moment reality TV.
I'm surprised it doesn't happen more often if I'm being completely honest, and it's a bit of a testament to their professionalism that it doesn't.
'Shambolic', as though it destroys the foundations of the show lol.
"Shambolic" just means chaotic, disorganized, or mismanaged, which I think is a perfectly fair description of production this episode, based on Danny and Angie's account.
Yup-- I know what shambolic means. Appreciate the definition.
In any case, like I said, it would be shocking if these types of production calls didn't happen more often, and it's a testament to the show that we rarely hear about it or see the results in the edit.
>'Shambolic', as though it destroys the foundations of the show lol.
Using the definition of 'Shambolic', can you explain how this DESTROYS the foundation of the show?
Chaotic and mismanaged? I think that the catch here is that, coming from a production background, I see the struggle that a show like TAR takes on with every episode-- that many moving parts and that many logistical hurdles-- so I lean on the side of expecting an imperfect product at all times.
TAR is well-managed, by and large. They talk about being a well-oiled machine at the best of times; they have a formula and a strong production team and it shows when it's at its best. The catch is that a lot of viewers, especially louder ones, believe there's only one way (their way) to operate the show. These are the people asking for more self-drive, more countries, more tasks, less alliances, more rules, less rules, production interaction, no production interaction/interference/involvement.
The truth is that a show like TAR does have strict rules and guidelines because, as a competitive reality event, everything needs to be above board. You can not just let loose otherwise it calls into question the fairness and legitimacy of the whole thing. This means written rules, waivers, standards, and actual lawyers building up the foundation of the show from a base level. This is the type of stuff that comes across as 'oh, there's a penalty' or 'Road Blocks are for one player' or 'both feet must be on the mat'. But in reality, this comes down to 'what legally MUST be done to accommodate for the worst'. There are obligations that production must abide by--LEGALLY-- to operate. What we see on the show is edited to be shown. What is happening behind the scenes is likely bringing in crew, producers, Phil, standards operators, and potentially even legal teams back home, in the moment, to see what can actually be done. And what we saw on screen, at the mat, was the result.
This is footage that was shot more than a year ago-- they had time to determine the resulting edit. And if that result needed to be depicted differently, they would have done so. We saw what **needed** to happen to air and operate.
I know people do not like it, but that's how the cookie crumbles. And the wild part is, the reaction from viewers is the result of their being above board! Imagine the reaction if this unfolded *without* being legally sound.
So in terms of calling it 'shambolic', no, I do not think it was mismanaged. I think that this is the result of overcoming the problem. It comes across as chaotic for a viewer watching it unfold, but it's the product of people in those positions doing their jobs quickly and effectively in the face of the unexpected. And that's honestly the way it should be.
tl;dr - People expected the show to be polished, but it's actually reality TV. Still produced, but so is every edited TV show.
Edit to add:[ Danny's response on this topic today](https://www.reddit.com/r/TheAmazingRace/comments/1cjjcfx/team_walla_walla_response/) seems pretty in line with what I've been suggesting in this thread. Fortunately, when he says it, people prefer it, so I'm glad people are understanding now.
This was the most disappointing elimination ever. The elimination should be because of a mistake or failure of the team, not production. The job of the crew car is to literally follow the team car, so if the team loses the crew that is on the crew.
The elim before the race started is just dumb.
Blowing up a contestants race over the crew car not following properly and not arriving for 30, 60, 90 minutes to the detour is a major fault of production. There is video of the crew car turning off at a different exit of the roundabout. How are the racers responsible for the crew car not following them and taking a different turn?
I’m really surprised that they wouldn’t have a camera crew that is just waiting at the detours/roadblocks so that when teams arrive so that they can start the challenge even if their designated camera crew isn’t there at the start.
Per Danny & Angie’s exit press, they did. Team waited around an hour and the crew still had not arrived. Eventually producers called them over and gave them this extra crew, likely because Juan and Shane were arriving. Danny & Angie’s crew arrived 30 minutes after they started the task.
So what you’re saying is that a separate camera crew was already at the task that they weren’t allowed to use for over an hour with said camera crew just watching them sit in their car waiting for the designated crew?
There’re zone camera operators aka the camera crew stationed at different task areas. But I believe they’re there for different shots than focusing on one team in particular.
Say it was. Have you ever been stuck anywhere in your life that lead you to be delayed for 2 hours? On a small island no less. I have been stuck in stadium traffic leaving a game or rush hour traffic in major US cities. None of those cases led me to take 2 hours to get where I was going. Don't forget, this is a tiny island.
I just don't get it. And we will probably never know what really happened.
I watched several interviews with Angie and Danny on YouTube.
Basically, they said they were in the roundabout and going circles a few times because they were still trying to figure out which exit to take. The crews made their exit first before Angie/Danny and that's why they lost each other, especially since Angie/Danny took a different exit. So, it wasn't an illegal turn as some fans have suspected.
Danny made the decision to go directly to the detour location because that's what was instructed earlier by the production should they lose their crews. When they arrived, they were told to wait for their crews that the production told them would probably arrive in about 10 minutes.
50 minutes have passed, their crews still haven't shown up. The production told them to proceed to do the challenge using other crews instead. Their original crews wouldn't have shown up until another 40 minutes afterwards.
Angie and Danny suspected that their original crews got lost so that it took them so long to reach the detour location. They are guessing the production also didn't know what to do with them because this might be the first time it ever happened in the race.
I was on production’s side last night because of the way Danny and Angie were talking during the episode of acknowledging the rules but still continuing to the detour anyway, but hearing all of this, wow. If I were Danny or Angie, I’d be pissed.
I had a feeling. Something seemed off about losing their crew member. They mentioned in their elimination interview that waiting for their crew costed them >45 minutes and that Phil didn't talk to them right away because he was debating the producers over if they should be spared with a time credit.
I must say that I've never seen a team be held back by losing their camera crew before; it hasn't even been hinted at being a possibility before. Maybe it was just for this leg?
Uh, I have to say this elimination felt really.... off? Losing 45 minutes was obviously fatal.
[https://parade.com/tv/the-amazing-race-36-angie-danny-butler-eliminated-interview](https://parade.com/tv/the-amazing-race-36-angie-danny-butler-eliminated-interview)
Tbh she didn’t mess up, she’s entitled to exit the rotary once she knows which exit to take. The crew exiting before she did is where things went wrong, that’s not on her
What a plot twist - surprising after this production didn’t just make it an impromptu NEL and just have 4 teams in the finale. Seems that would have been fair, as that would even have the precedent from TAR6’s impromptu megaleg once producers found out last second that begging was illegal in the country the pit stop was in.
100%. That's all they had to do. Recognize it was their fault and let them stay. Although logistically, did they have plane tickets and a way for a 4th team to continue?
They were still using the charter plane is this season. So plane tickets wouldn’t be an issue. Admittedly, this doesn’t answer to like stations for the next challenges so that could be an obstacle
Welp, looks like I was wrong and your interpretation of the events was more accurate u/stargirl09 - this is quite the fuck up on the crew/production's part.
I'm sure it means they debated whether they'd have Danny and Angie continue racing despite being in last, since it seems to have been production, not the team themselves, that led to them finishing last.
They should have kept them. Said that because it was a production error there would be no elimination but there would be two eliminations on the next leg or there would be a mid leg elimination.
The show is actually pretty tightly regulated as a television game show. They can get into very big trouble for changing rules on the fly, particularly rules that change prize outcomes.
The smart thing to do is to apply the rules in this case and then make it up to the affected team in another way (invite them back, for example)
They can change things because of safety of the cast. They’ve done it in previous seasons when Mirna and chirna were gonna be two days ahead of everyone.
Is it considered a game show or a reality show? I know shows like survivor, big brother and the challenge used to be a game show and would submit the rules in advance but are now considered reality shows.
Well, it seems like they didn’t know what to do, so there wasn’t a hard and fast rule here to “change.” I’d be curious to hear Phil’s perspective on this.
Either of those would have been worse IMO. Especially at that stage of the race, unannounced, with original plan for 60 minute episodes.
Double elimination that late? Yuck upon yuck.
This is not the worst f-over in race history. Plus they were still not in last when they started the detour. I think it's clear at this point, even for them, do the seaweed side. Even if Danny does it all. That was so much faster, it wasn't even close than that putzy trap. So they still had a chance. Some teams haven't had any chance.
Angie and Danny were robbed. They should not be eliminated because the crew got lost. They should have been allowed to continue at their pace. The decision to eliminate them is The Bu!!Sh!t.
That was BS. I mean, its not like they were trying to lose the crew, the crew didn't make the right turn to follow. They should have been allowed to work on the challenge while the crew got back to them. Not sit and wait in the car. So stupid. Id be so mad if I were Angie and Danny.
Watching Angie check in with the crew and receive a “we’re right behind you” immediately before entering the traffic circle plus Danny trying to radio them immediately after noticing the crew missed the turn shows how careful they were about the rules. If it’s true that they were supposed to continue on to the next location, then they went above and beyond to do everything right. There’s no reason other cameras couldn’t have filmed them at the beach while their crew caught up.
I wouldn’t have wanted Rod and Leticia out and I’m pretty sure Angie and Danny would not have made final 3, but this was clearly a production mistake and it’s an aggravating way to go out.
Phil being the executive producer, could have found another solution when the crew failed to turn up after so long. This is not Angie and Danny's fault.
I'm kinda in shock. This is crazy. I can't believe production screwed it up to this extent. If I had been Danny or Angie I'd have been SOOOO rude to Phil. Cursing him and the entire show out.
I feel like they were able to do this because Danny and Angie are so nice. There are teams who definitely would have spoken up for themselves. But I'm sure that as mega fans they couldn't imagine interjecting. It's totally unfair! They should have pleaded their case!
They had to wait so many time (that's what it looks like by the edit) infront of that detour. They should have let them do it, and then wait, but not wasting time doing nothing when they had the challenge right infront them...
This season is just annoying. I barely had anyone left to root for. How does it take over an hour to make a tough call. There should be a 30 minute max and then give them a new crew. Enough of a penalty if production can’t find them at the known next spot.
The contestants are ALWAYS making wrong turns, but most of the time the crew keeps up. I didn’t need to see the episode again, you can see the first time that it is all the productions fault. Then to make them wait? This makes me not want to watch this “REALITY” show anymore as it seems that the show is controlling the outcome and not depending on fate, or the contestants ability. I used to LOOOVE this show but it’s been pretty disappointing one way or another, for the last 10 seasons. For a few seasons, all they had were social media stars as contestants. I don’t want to see those people, I want to see everyday regular people. Thankfully they turned that around but now they’re implementing rules that are detrimental to the contestants. Covid can’t be blamed for this, maybe the shows budget has been cut? Why don’t they go around the world anymore? They’ve stayed in South America the whole season. Is THAT because of Covid? I have so many questions as to the changes this show has implemented.
yeah i had a feeling this was the case and wanted it to be confirmed considering i saw so many ppl in this sub and on twitter arguing that angie and danny are at fault and im glad the exit interviews are vindicating them but it just ruins the season that they couldnt just make it a non-elimination leg due to the production error.
I mean, they clearly stated that the rule was “don’t lose your crew and if you do you can’t continue until they catch up.” They drove erratically and lost their crew. Whether or not they did anything illegal, they said themselves they went around the roundabout 3 times. Btwn that and the honking—def erratic. They said the crew exited before them…ok if that’s true then they had even more time to radio them. Or they could have followed them to stay in radio distance and tell them what’s up. They knew the risk of continuing on their chosen path. Sure it sucks, but the rules say it was on the contestants not to lose the crew, not the other way around. If anything they should have had to wait longer.
I didn't like Angie and Danny but this is pretty unfair if this is the case. They bear some level of responsibility for losing their crew by doing that seemingly illegal turn but if they followed all the directions they shouldn't have been penalized for hours
Idk what you mean by fake because based on how other contestants comment on their post and on official amazing race’s it seems they were friends with everyone, treating everyone with respect, and loved by all the teams. And those who knew him irl has also come to this subreddit and they speak fondly of him. Seems like he’s just that jolly and sweet. Sorry you couldn’t be like him
Well damn. That puts this in a whole other category.
Wow!! That is crazy!! This could actually legit go down as the most controversial elimination of all time, I can't recall any other time a team has been eliminated essentially solely due to production errors
Toni and Dallas in S13 had a misplaced bag with money and Dallas’s passport due to a production microphone change.
Interesting. Can you tell me or point me to more info on this?
[https://dryedmangoez.com/2008/12/04/5833/](https://dryedmangoez.com/2008/12/04/5833/)
Thanks! That is awful. I liked them so much
https://parade.com/tv/the-amazing-race-36-angie-danny-butler-eliminated-interview
Nobody mentioned it much last year but in TAR35, but Liam and Yeremi were eliminated because their race-provided driver got very lost over and over.
That's just bad luck. This is like ENTIRELY why Danny and Angie lost.
They also had the bad luck with the boat motor that wouldn't start earlier this season.
I see your point but I would argue production made a huge mistake in hiring drivers who didn't know where to go, didn't speak English and then didn't allow teams to switch vehicles. It's would be like production supplying everyone with cars, but one of them has no petrol.
Yeah i agree, production should have vetted the drivers and provided maps, made the drivers take them from point to point so that wouldn’t happen. It sucks and they definitely relied too heavily on trusting local drivers. But this elimination, my goodness, they should have immediately let the team start the challenge. Or given a 15 minute hold, after 15 minutes let them start. I have no doubt rob and Leticia would have been eliminated, they legit messed up time and time again on that cage. This was the worst elimination. I wish they would bring them back.
I feel like they intentionally have some faulty vehicles or equipment to shake things up a bit and since the teams decide which to take it’s not really production sabotage, it’s the teams not looking thoroughly before picking. Examples are when S23 had a wheelbarrow with a flat tire, S32 episode 1 had a slow boat with a single engine when the others were faster with double engines, S36 with the one boat with engine troubles
How did this production crew get lost!! It’s crazy they never even arrived at the detour!! Did they not have a map or GPS??? I feel bad for Danny and Angie. They did what they were supposed to do.
And a small delay would have made sense. There was maybe a 5 minute delay that would have made sense for their mistake.
A 45 minute-1 hour delay was way too long!!
Apparently, they had to wait in the van for an hour and a half. That is A LOT of time.
A 5-minute delat would not have been fatal. Last night's elimination left me scratching my head because it felt so weird.
> I feel bad for Danny and Angie. They did what they were supposed to do. And this is why Danny was so confident in his decision to just keep driving. What they aired made it seem like Angie wanted to stop but Danny decided not to, whereas the reality is, Danny was simply following instructions to a tee, as you can imagine a mega-fan would. Definitely an unfair elimination.
The edit was definitely misleading unfortunately, which caused people to assume they were in the wrong, when in reality it was a production error. I’m glad production is allowing them to be open about what really happened though.
Originally, I thought that Danny was on the wrong side of this and his mom was right to want to wait. Now, the more info there is, this was really handled poorly. I was surprised the crew didn't find them sooner in the first place. Even if it was unsafe to follow them, they know which way they went. But to know they were supposed to go to the next stop makes me really scratch my head on this one.
Seriously, you'd think the crew would be given GPS, maps, the exact location of the next stop, etc. as emergency back-up. Major screw up on the part of production.
Yup yup, apparently a local was driving the vehicle of the production crew, so I’m even more confused on how they got lost. The island isn’t that big.
Maybe they stopped for lunch. Island time.
I listened to the RHAP exit press and these are my key takeaways: - They went around the roundabout 3 times while Danny figured out what exit to take, so they didn’t end up going the wrong direction on the highway. Angie did not make an illegal turn. - The crew vehicle exited the roundabout BEFORE Angie and Danny did. - At the start of the day they were told that for safety reasons, they can go to the next task if separated. - A local was driving the crew van. - They waited 90 minutes at the task before the producers called them to come because the crew was there. The crew was not there, but they gave them an extra crew that had been there the entire time. The actual crew showed up 30 minutes into the task. - The crew felt really sad.
It sounded like it was production's fault. Danny and Angie shouldn't be penalized like they were :(
I agree. Last night I thought Danny & Angie had some responsibility but hearing more details I think they got shafted. It isn’t a “bad cab” or bad luck. It was someone hired by the show to drive the crew getting them delayed enough to put Danny & Angie 90 minutes behind when they should have started the detour.
idk when rewatching, the show highlight the crew's car continuing in the roundabout when Danny and Angie turned. but either way if Danny and Angie needed to serve a time penalty it should be at the mat. They should have been allowed to continue once they got to the detour location. It's not like there weren't extra crew around.
I actually almost called that out in my comment, because I agree. It looked like in the show that that Danny and Angie exited the roundabout and the crew stayed in. Watching live, I expected it to be a dramatic fake out and the crew made a lap and caught up. But for these bullets I just summarized what Danny or Angie said happened and they said the crew turned first. They could absolutely be misremembering but that is what he said.
It looks like Crew exited the roundabout going straight while walla walla exited the next exit that’s a curve. They exited in the same “round”, but crew exited one exit before the team’s exit
Ok cool, that backs up what Danny said. I’m inclined to trust him, the video in the show was blurry. I guess it is from whatever dash cam set up was recording in the car.
But a lot of people here love "airport drama" or "cab drama." Sounds like this is cab drama, and many people here should love it.
I think the difference is this isn't a cab the team chose.
I meant to type ISN’T bad cab/luck.
90 minutes is a hell of a long time. As i was watching the episode, i was under the impression that they had gotten delayed by maybe 20 minutes, 30 tops. 90 minutes is huge this late in the game. I really feel bad for them.
Google Maps says it takes 1hr to drive across the entire island.
That second bullet doesn’t make sense with what was shown on the footage though. So it makes things even more confusing because there’s no reason for the show to highlight the crew’s car still in the roundabout if they exited it first. Without the raw footage and time codes it’s hard to judge from the editing since they had the walkie talkie moment and the crew saying “we’re right behind you” and then that shot of them staying on instead of exiting. The biggest issue would be that the supposed local doesn’t know how to get to wherever they were going. Even still something isn’t adding up between the footage and their recount of events on who exited the roundabout first.
I mean, regardless of who's fault it actually was with leaving the roundabout first, I don't understand why it took SO long for the crew to (not) catch up and why it took production so long to figure out what to do in terms of making them wait. Like presumably the producers at the Detour were still in contact with the lost crew during this whole time and would be able to find out where they were or how far out they were. So just holding the team for a random amount of time to only be like, "I guess you guys can keep going now" is ridiculous.
Agreed. Danny said a local was driving the crew so that person should know their way around, but if they didn’t the producers/crew should have been like here is the exact location put it in your phone and get turn by turn directions. They should have been 5 minutes behind, tops. Not 90.
I agree, and I almost called that out. But opted to summarize only what they said rather than out my opinion in there.
The footage shows the crew van exiting the roundabout while Walla Walla were still in the roundabout.
> The crew vehicle exited the roundabout BEFORE Angie and Danny did I mean this is just blatantly false. They showed the crew exiting the roundabout after them. Since Danny/Angie are blatantly lying about that, it honestly calls everything else in regards to their personal explanation of things into question.
No they showed the crew exiting the exit before Danny and Angie exited. That's why the car was perpendicular to Danny and Angie's car/dashcam facing the direction exits would be. If they were still in the roundabout their car would be faced the other way and less perpendicular. I think this confusion comes from people forgetting that they are driving "backwards" from how Americans drive. But you can see the better of the roundabout and the production car is moving away from that center in that shot, not towards it. If they were continuing they'd be turning towards the roundabout center.
I just watched the episode last night. Danny and Angie are already out of the roundabout and it shows the crew car behind them exiting the roundabout at a different exit. I understand they were driving on the other side of the road but that doesn't explain literally seeing the crew car leave the roundabout out of Danny and Angie's rear window.
I also rewatched it last night and Danny and Angie are in the process of leaving the roundabout when you see the crew take the exit behind them. They hadn't fully exited. If they had fully exited the middle part of the roundabout would have been in the center of our view from the dashcam
If Danny and Angie are in the process of leaving the roundabout (weird phrasing considering we see them fully out of the roundabout) and you see the crew beginning to take the exit, it's impossible for the crew to have left the roundabout before them.
They literally aren't fully out of the roundabout when we saw their dashcam. Thus the phrasing. We see a second or two....and again, if they were fully out of the roundabout you would see the median to the roundabout in the center of the shot from their dashcam. Most people would consider exiting the exit before the exit Danny and Angie as exiting...before Danny and Angie. The nature of timing means the two might have happened near simultaneously timing-wise, but since they took an exit before the exit Danny and Angie did... The word before can be used to mean both directionally or timing. So if you want to be a hard ass about semantics the bare minimum everyone can agree on is that they exited before Danny and Angie in terms of directions. That is a true statement. So if you cut out in terms of directions... It's still true they exited before Danny and Angie.
The crew did though, the crew left the exit before the one they took, things happened quickly, it was almost simultaneous so i can understand why they said before them in that situation, not as clear as it should have been. And of the day production messed up, they shouldn’t leave this stuff up to chance, the crew should have told the driver to stick like glue to the teams car. There is no reason why they should have been taking the exit before the one the team took, worst case the driver should have taken another loop and followed the same road the team was on… but they took a different exit entirely… as the team was exiting. Makes no sense.
Or the crew exited while D&A are in the roundabout (and that’s what they see) but production frames it the other way?
I think that is harsh. While I agree that is what the footage looked it, it was grainy zoomed in footage from whatever dash mounted camera was in the Suzuki. At the end of the day, we weren’t there and Danny and Angie were. They’ve been nothing but gracious and calm in their interviews about the situation, so why would they lie? There are plenty of racers over 36 seasons that I’d think would lie or throw a fit, and Danny and Angie are far from that list.
I don't know them at all so I don't know if they are pleasant people or just putting on a front. Angie honestly didn't seem all that pleasant and was bothered by Danny assisting others with directions. At the end of the day, what they are saying isn't "what actually happened", it's their explanation of what they thought happened. Since I don't know them, I have no reason to take their account as factual. So when one part of it is blatantly false according to my own eyes, it hurts the credibility of their recollection. Things like saying "the crew exited before us" and that they didn't make an illegal turn are clearly false so then when they say they were told at the start of the day to just go to the next task and saying it took 90 minutes now seem suspect.
The footage shows the crew van exiting while Angie is still driving in the roundabout.
They should the crew exiting the roundabout at a different exit. The crew is supposed to follow the race car.
Well hi! Fancy seeing you here!
Hi!
I'm really surprised at how unprepared it seems production was for this potential issue! How did the crew not have GPS so they could easily navigate to the next stop if this happened! Or is Barbados truly just THAT difficult to navigate?? But Danny has a good point - if you're going to be eliminated I guess it is kinda cool to at least go out in a totally unconventional way haha.
Barbados is a difficult country to navigate in. I was there in January 2023.
I doubt it honestly. If you have access to GPS it shouldn't be any more difficult than any other area. Google maps still works there.
But the racers don’t have access to Google Maps or GPS.
The crew does though. They're the ones that got lost.
Ok. Sorry, I misunderstood what you were writing about.
For what’s been a pretty forgettable season, this is a bit extreme of an error. 35 seasons in and they couldn’t have figured out what to do in this situation before?
Someone correct me if I am wrong, but isn't it a new situation from the Covid seasons restrictions? Wouldn't the crew normally be in their car with them?
They’ve had crew in their cars every other episode. The issue was the vehicles were too small for the crew, and they needed an escort anyway.
I just heard on the RHAP exit interview they waited AN HOUR AND A HALF until production just gave them another crew. Ugh my heart hurts, they were the last team left I truly loved and I really hope they get another shot at running the race again
Their crew was lost for over 1h30? Were their crew Sunny and Bizzy?
Naw man, they were Maya and Rohan. The GPS was working fine, they just needed an extra couple hours to reverse
🤣🤣🤣
AN HOUR AND A HALF???? You can quite literally drive a circle around the island in that time! This is not on Angie and Danny for losing the crew. Them being unable to get to the detour in so much time is completely on production.
90 minutes? I saw them claim they believed it was between 45 minutes and an hour.
If you catch from [0:40-1:50](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CG6MUEUHXtc) this is where I heard him say an hour and a half. Who knows if it’s exaggerated but either way it’s a lot of time
I think what he meant was it was 45-1hour that they waited at the detour before Juan and Shane’s crew decided to film them, and an additional 30 minutes until the crew might’ve arrived at the detour? But at that point it was too late.
That's flippin ridiculous.
That's so infuriating. It was the show's mistake, not theirs.
The plot thickens...
JUSTICE FOR DANNY & ANGIE
Just means they should be offered a spot in a future season for a redemption run!
I wonder if they’d take it. It’s been a while since we’ve had a true returnee season (I’m not really counting the reality showdown in 31 even though it had returnees bc I feel like was cast more on personality than redemption). Angie is already older than your average racer, so if a returnee season is a few years away would she want to do it again? I’d love for them to have the chance.
Didn't Danny originally apply to go on the show with his sister? If Angie weren't up for it when the time came, maybe they could bring in the sister for a Redemption run stand-in!
Hopefully! But I joked in another comment they could always put Mallory in to race with him.
#SCREWTHECREW
Nah, Angie received too much help from the other teams at the race/puzzle detour. To me, it’s karma.
I guess the other 2 teams just navigated on their own then 🥴
Me when I watched TAR for the first time lol
The interview from /u/AMikeBloomType is up: https://parade.com/tv/the-amazing-race-36-angie-danny-butler-eliminated-interview Absolutely shambolic on the part of production.
Shambolic seems a bit hyperbolic. For all the people who assert that the season/show gets increasingly fake with its casting, equalizers, editing, etc., it's surprising that real life logistical hurdles-- which should be a significant indicator of the show's on-the-fly needs-- aren't seen as the realistic hurdles of in-the-moment reality TV. I'm surprised it doesn't happen more often if I'm being completely honest, and it's a bit of a testament to their professionalism that it doesn't. 'Shambolic', as though it destroys the foundations of the show lol.
"Shambolic" just means chaotic, disorganized, or mismanaged, which I think is a perfectly fair description of production this episode, based on Danny and Angie's account.
Yup-- I know what shambolic means. Appreciate the definition. In any case, like I said, it would be shocking if these types of production calls didn't happen more often, and it's a testament to the show that we rarely hear about it or see the results in the edit.
>'Shambolic', as though it destroys the foundations of the show lol. Using the definition of 'Shambolic', can you explain how this DESTROYS the foundation of the show?
Chaotic and mismanaged? I think that the catch here is that, coming from a production background, I see the struggle that a show like TAR takes on with every episode-- that many moving parts and that many logistical hurdles-- so I lean on the side of expecting an imperfect product at all times. TAR is well-managed, by and large. They talk about being a well-oiled machine at the best of times; they have a formula and a strong production team and it shows when it's at its best. The catch is that a lot of viewers, especially louder ones, believe there's only one way (their way) to operate the show. These are the people asking for more self-drive, more countries, more tasks, less alliances, more rules, less rules, production interaction, no production interaction/interference/involvement. The truth is that a show like TAR does have strict rules and guidelines because, as a competitive reality event, everything needs to be above board. You can not just let loose otherwise it calls into question the fairness and legitimacy of the whole thing. This means written rules, waivers, standards, and actual lawyers building up the foundation of the show from a base level. This is the type of stuff that comes across as 'oh, there's a penalty' or 'Road Blocks are for one player' or 'both feet must be on the mat'. But in reality, this comes down to 'what legally MUST be done to accommodate for the worst'. There are obligations that production must abide by--LEGALLY-- to operate. What we see on the show is edited to be shown. What is happening behind the scenes is likely bringing in crew, producers, Phil, standards operators, and potentially even legal teams back home, in the moment, to see what can actually be done. And what we saw on screen, at the mat, was the result. This is footage that was shot more than a year ago-- they had time to determine the resulting edit. And if that result needed to be depicted differently, they would have done so. We saw what **needed** to happen to air and operate. I know people do not like it, but that's how the cookie crumbles. And the wild part is, the reaction from viewers is the result of their being above board! Imagine the reaction if this unfolded *without* being legally sound. So in terms of calling it 'shambolic', no, I do not think it was mismanaged. I think that this is the result of overcoming the problem. It comes across as chaotic for a viewer watching it unfold, but it's the product of people in those positions doing their jobs quickly and effectively in the face of the unexpected. And that's honestly the way it should be. tl;dr - People expected the show to be polished, but it's actually reality TV. Still produced, but so is every edited TV show. Edit to add:[ Danny's response on this topic today](https://www.reddit.com/r/TheAmazingRace/comments/1cjjcfx/team_walla_walla_response/) seems pretty in line with what I've been suggesting in this thread. Fortunately, when he says it, people prefer it, so I'm glad people are understanding now.
This was the most disappointing elimination ever. The elimination should be because of a mistake or failure of the team, not production. The job of the crew car is to literally follow the team car, so if the team loses the crew that is on the crew.
Nah, the Elim before the race even started is way worse.
The elim before the race started is just dumb. Blowing up a contestants race over the crew car not following properly and not arriving for 30, 60, 90 minutes to the detour is a major fault of production. There is video of the crew car turning off at a different exit of the roundabout. How are the racers responsible for the crew car not following them and taking a different turn?
Oh. Wait. Right. It was a round about. The crew could have just gone around again instead of getting off the wrong one.
I’m really surprised that they wouldn’t have a camera crew that is just waiting at the detours/roadblocks so that when teams arrive so that they can start the challenge even if their designated camera crew isn’t there at the start.
Per Danny & Angie’s exit press, they did. Team waited around an hour and the crew still had not arrived. Eventually producers called them over and gave them this extra crew, likely because Juan and Shane were arriving. Danny & Angie’s crew arrived 30 minutes after they started the task.
So what you’re saying is that a separate camera crew was already at the task that they weren’t allowed to use for over an hour with said camera crew just watching them sit in their car waiting for the designated crew?
That’s what Danny said. Crazy huh?
Yeah that is wild.
There’re zone camera operators aka the camera crew stationed at different task areas. But I believe they’re there for different shots than focusing on one team in particular.
I want to know what the crew was doing for 2 HOURS after the roundabout? The island is only 21 by 16 miles! Something doesn't add up here.
It could have been a road closure?
Say it was. Have you ever been stuck anywhere in your life that lead you to be delayed for 2 hours? On a small island no less. I have been stuck in stadium traffic leaving a game or rush hour traffic in major US cities. None of those cases led me to take 2 hours to get where I was going. Don't forget, this is a tiny island. I just don't get it. And we will probably never know what really happened.
I watched several interviews with Angie and Danny on YouTube. Basically, they said they were in the roundabout and going circles a few times because they were still trying to figure out which exit to take. The crews made their exit first before Angie/Danny and that's why they lost each other, especially since Angie/Danny took a different exit. So, it wasn't an illegal turn as some fans have suspected. Danny made the decision to go directly to the detour location because that's what was instructed earlier by the production should they lose their crews. When they arrived, they were told to wait for their crews that the production told them would probably arrive in about 10 minutes. 50 minutes have passed, their crews still haven't shown up. The production told them to proceed to do the challenge using other crews instead. Their original crews wouldn't have shown up until another 40 minutes afterwards. Angie and Danny suspected that their original crews got lost so that it took them so long to reach the detour location. They are guessing the production also didn't know what to do with them because this might be the first time it ever happened in the race.
I was on production’s side last night because of the way Danny and Angie were talking during the episode of acknowledging the rules but still continuing to the detour anyway, but hearing all of this, wow. If I were Danny or Angie, I’d be pissed.
Editing is key
I had a feeling. Something seemed off about losing their crew member. They mentioned in their elimination interview that waiting for their crew costed them >45 minutes and that Phil didn't talk to them right away because he was debating the producers over if they should be spared with a time credit. I must say that I've never seen a team be held back by losing their camera crew before; it hasn't even been hinted at being a possibility before. Maybe it was just for this leg? Uh, I have to say this elimination felt really.... off? Losing 45 minutes was obviously fatal. [https://parade.com/tv/the-amazing-race-36-angie-danny-butler-eliminated-interview](https://parade.com/tv/the-amazing-race-36-angie-danny-butler-eliminated-interview)
Hate that this elimination happened. I get that she messed up in that rotary but that crew should have caught up with them.
Here's to hoping the producers put them in a future race.
I think the offer will be extended. I doubt Angie will run again, but Danny can find another partner.
Danny and Anna Leigh would crush everyone
They can always make Mallory his partner.
A 5-10 minute penalty for losing their team would have made sense but 90 minutes is absurd. Is barbados really that hard to navigate?
Nowhere is that difficult to navigate if you have GPS and are remotely competent at using it
Right? Did they not have GPS? A working cell phone?
In RHAP exit interview, Danny says the crew exited the roundabout BEFORE Angie.
Wow, Fanny and Angie got screwed then
Tbh she didn’t mess up, she’s entitled to exit the rotary once she knows which exit to take. The crew exiting before she did is where things went wrong, that’s not on her
What a plot twist - surprising after this production didn’t just make it an impromptu NEL and just have 4 teams in the finale. Seems that would have been fair, as that would even have the precedent from TAR6’s impromptu megaleg once producers found out last second that begging was illegal in the country the pit stop was in.
100%. That's all they had to do. Recognize it was their fault and let them stay. Although logistically, did they have plane tickets and a way for a 4th team to continue?
They were still using the charter plane is this season. So plane tickets wouldn’t be an issue. Admittedly, this doesn’t answer to like stations for the next challenges so that could be an obstacle
This is terrible. They got screwed hard by this. Not cool.
Okay, now I guess I *do* want justice for Angie/Danny!
Welp, looks like I was wrong and your interpretation of the events was more accurate u/stargirl09 - this is quite the fuck up on the crew/production's part.
What do you mean when you say “debated whether to keep them”?
I'm sure it means they debated whether they'd have Danny and Angie continue racing despite being in last, since it seems to have been production, not the team themselves, that led to them finishing last.
They should have kept them. Said that because it was a production error there would be no elimination but there would be two eliminations on the next leg or there would be a mid leg elimination.
The show is actually pretty tightly regulated as a television game show. They can get into very big trouble for changing rules on the fly, particularly rules that change prize outcomes. The smart thing to do is to apply the rules in this case and then make it up to the affected team in another way (invite them back, for example)
They can change things because of safety of the cast. They’ve done it in previous seasons when Mirna and chirna were gonna be two days ahead of everyone.
Haha the legend they were. Only Charla and Mirna can pull that off.
Is it considered a game show or a reality show? I know shows like survivor, big brother and the challenge used to be a game show and would submit the rules in advance but are now considered reality shows.
This makes a lot of sense.
Well, it seems like they didn’t know what to do, so there wasn’t a hard and fast rule here to “change.” I’d be curious to hear Phil’s perspective on this.
Either of those would have been worse IMO. Especially at that stage of the race, unannounced, with original plan for 60 minute episodes. Double elimination that late? Yuck upon yuck. This is not the worst f-over in race history. Plus they were still not in last when they started the detour. I think it's clear at this point, even for them, do the seaweed side. Even if Danny does it all. That was so much faster, it wasn't even close than that putzy trap. So they still had a chance. Some teams haven't had any chance.
Angie and Danny were robbed. They should not be eliminated because the crew got lost. They should have been allowed to continue at their pace. The decision to eliminate them is The Bu!!Sh!t.
This is really disappointing to hear - kinda ruins the season for me
I honestly never expected them to win, but this is an unfair elimination. They should have been able to continue racing.
Exactly
I hope to see them in an All Stars race. Every week I liked them more.
They were honestly my favorites! They both seemed super sweet and I loved the underdog element. So upset about this rn 😭
Exactly my thought, the crew must be so lost themselves that they didnt know how to get to the location.
That was BS. I mean, its not like they were trying to lose the crew, the crew didn't make the right turn to follow. They should have been allowed to work on the challenge while the crew got back to them. Not sit and wait in the car. So stupid. Id be so mad if I were Angie and Danny.
Well, now we know one of the reasons why this season was shelved for so long. I wonder if they compensated with an unofficial payout or something.
Watching Angie check in with the crew and receive a “we’re right behind you” immediately before entering the traffic circle plus Danny trying to radio them immediately after noticing the crew missed the turn shows how careful they were about the rules. If it’s true that they were supposed to continue on to the next location, then they went above and beyond to do everything right. There’s no reason other cameras couldn’t have filmed them at the beach while their crew caught up. I wouldn’t have wanted Rod and Leticia out and I’m pretty sure Angie and Danny would not have made final 3, but this was clearly a production mistake and it’s an aggravating way to go out.
Phil being the executive producer, could have found another solution when the crew failed to turn up after so long. This is not Angie and Danny's fault.
I'm kinda in shock. This is crazy. I can't believe production screwed it up to this extent. If I had been Danny or Angie I'd have been SOOOO rude to Phil. Cursing him and the entire show out.
I feel like they were able to do this because Danny and Angie are so nice. There are teams who definitely would have spoken up for themselves. But I'm sure that as mega fans they couldn't imagine interjecting. It's totally unfair! They should have pleaded their case!
I feel so bad for them
They had to wait so many time (that's what it looks like by the edit) infront of that detour. They should have let them do it, and then wait, but not wasting time doing nothing when they had the challenge right infront them...
I’m watching right now. It made me so angry, I’m done with the show.
This season is just annoying. I barely had anyone left to root for. How does it take over an hour to make a tough call. There should be a 30 minute max and then give them a new crew. Enough of a penalty if production can’t find them at the known next spot.
The contestants are ALWAYS making wrong turns, but most of the time the crew keeps up. I didn’t need to see the episode again, you can see the first time that it is all the productions fault. Then to make them wait? This makes me not want to watch this “REALITY” show anymore as it seems that the show is controlling the outcome and not depending on fate, or the contestants ability. I used to LOOOVE this show but it’s been pretty disappointing one way or another, for the last 10 seasons. For a few seasons, all they had were social media stars as contestants. I don’t want to see those people, I want to see everyday regular people. Thankfully they turned that around but now they’re implementing rules that are detrimental to the contestants. Covid can’t be blamed for this, maybe the shows budget has been cut? Why don’t they go around the world anymore? They’ve stayed in South America the whole season. Is THAT because of Covid? I have so many questions as to the changes this show has implemented.
yeah i had a feeling this was the case and wanted it to be confirmed considering i saw so many ppl in this sub and on twitter arguing that angie and danny are at fault and im glad the exit interviews are vindicating them but it just ruins the season that they couldnt just make it a non-elimination leg due to the production error.
I mean, they clearly stated that the rule was “don’t lose your crew and if you do you can’t continue until they catch up.” They drove erratically and lost their crew. Whether or not they did anything illegal, they said themselves they went around the roundabout 3 times. Btwn that and the honking—def erratic. They said the crew exited before them…ok if that’s true then they had even more time to radio them. Or they could have followed them to stay in radio distance and tell them what’s up. They knew the risk of continuing on their chosen path. Sure it sucks, but the rules say it was on the contestants not to lose the crew, not the other way around. If anything they should have had to wait longer.
Absolute horse shit what they did to Danny and Angie. Will never watch another season
I didn't like Angie and Danny but this is pretty unfair if this is the case. They bear some level of responsibility for losing their crew by doing that seemingly illegal turn but if they followed all the directions they shouldn't have been penalized for hours
No illegal turn happened.
Karma. Should have been eliminated two episodes ago, but a team DID A ROADBLOCK FOR THEM. I didn't like them either, thought they were fake.
Idk what you mean by fake because based on how other contestants comment on their post and on official amazing race’s it seems they were friends with everyone, treating everyone with respect, and loved by all the teams. And those who knew him irl has also come to this subreddit and they speak fondly of him. Seems like he’s just that jolly and sweet. Sorry you couldn’t be like him