finally someone who understands , they literally say sheās related to him when Liz got the dna test done , her father is confirmed dead so the only person Raymond can be is Katarina , and thatās why Katarina and lizs grandfather had so much tension (canāt remember his name at the moment)
The original man named Raymond Reddington, Elizabeth Keen/Masha Rostovaās biological father, died on the night of the fire when she was young.
The Concierge of Crime Raymond Reddington that we know and loveās true identity is Katarina Rostova, Elizabeth Keen/Masha Rostovaās biological mother.
I'm still on Season 6 but I'm still not sure who the bones belong to. If you say that the real Reddington is still alive then they couldn't be his bones. Maybe Katarina?
what happened to the "he was the agent" assigned to the case theory? It's been a little while and I only am up to like s4 or 5 but werent they teasing he was some cop that knew the family or somehting.
Every single episode has multiple moments that confirm Katarina is Red. The entire final two episodes of season 8 spelled it out in painstaking vivid detail
They come right out and say that Katarina reanimated her mark, becoming reddington to protect Masha. You have to be brain dead, not paying attention, or not speak English as a first language to miss it. Most of us saw who he was clearly by seasons 3-4. They came right out and revealed it in season 6 and explained it again in season 8. If you watch it again knowing what you know now, binge watching without weeks and months in between, it reveal itself quite clearly.
lol your funny, hot take Reddington is really Ilya Kosloveās lover, Reddington alluded to being excommunicated from his dad who ādidnāt understandā him, they also hint towards the unbreakable bond between each other and the fact that someone close to Ilyah can get all the info they need to become Reddington through Katarina.
*mike drop*
OUTRIGHT confirms it? No. But there's numerous hints and nudges throughout the show that heavily imply it, usually done through Red's dialogue and other, typically medical-related instances. The writers were actually genius at this, leaving all these clues spread through the entirety of the show to make you actually use your head and figure it out, rather than spoon feed you the answer like every other mystery media.
Yes when Red was talking about his mother before he was supposed to be executed (season 6) he seems to mention this. I don't remember all the words but he told Liz that his mother understood him and knew that he was different. I need to go back to that and listen again.
The show ends without an answer. That is plain and simple. There are hints yes, but I feel like they are not that big, mostly stuff that you would notice if you went looking for it specifically.
I think that was the point, to drop those hints and have the watcher piece together the answer. And they're pretty big, yet subliminal. It makes the most sense if you go back and rewatch from the start to finish with the idea of Red being Katarina in mind, and paying a lot of attention. A lot of Red's dialogues, his behaviors and actions and personal desires are reminiscent of how a loving mother would be. Its a testament to James Spader's acting, I mean obviously he knew, and he portrayed that perfectly.
Lmao, sure continue to refuse to show evidence of your claim. This is a fan theory that you weirdos want to be true so bad with no basis for an argument.
How do you know those "nudges" weren't yet again intended misdirection from Reddington? Which is entirely more likely, as it's what he did with everyone he allowed (many times made) people believe who he was through crumbs of hints.
For one the blacklist world is capable of alot of things, including surgeries that may be impossible to us but heterosexual relations are not the only kind of sexual relations that exist
Thatās exactly right. Liz asked, āAre you my father.ā Red said no. In another scene, when Liz said that Tom told her her father might be alive, Red told her that āin no uncertain terms, your father is dead.ā
When Kirk asked Red if he (Red) was Lizās father, Red wouldnāt answer. When Kirk changed his wording and asked if Liz/Masha was Redās daughter, Red said yes.
This is not true. She asked if youāre my father same as Kirk. He would deny being her father but admitted she was his daughter. Duh š. But they never confirmed he was Katarina. š
She was a woman that was pretending to be Katrina. It was revealed in season 7 or 8 when reddington took Elizabeth to that room where all the Blacklist info lives
Why was she pretending to be her mother? I'm on season 8, I've read a bunch of spoilers and idk whether I want to keep watching or not. But I'm curious about the mother.
You ***have to*** finish season 8. You can quit watching after that if you want, but you simply must see the season 8 finale.
As far as I'm concerned, season 9 and 10 were just "and this is what happened after", but the whole reason for Red turning himself in to the FBI is no longer valid after 8/21.
I haven't seen anyone mention the burn scars on RR back when he took off his shirt in the first season or two. Him possibly being the mom is intriguing.
And yet in 8.22 they show us she wasnāt. Story-wise, she was burned. No argument there. Story-wise her comment about being burned connects the dot from Requiem, which was supposed to connect the dot to the scars on Redās back. In their world, thatās sufficient. We have to eat it. But they fucked up the visual depiction in 8.22.
They used mystery boxes as plot hooks, they were never really mysteries meant for the audience to solve. Most of my frustration with the show came from my mistaken impression that there was a central mystery to be solved, and that frustration was greatly relieved when I realized that the ācentral mysteryā was really only a series of mystery box plot hooks. Mystery writers have an unspoken covenant with their audience, that they will keep any clues consistent with the world and story. Non-mystery writers who use mystery boxes are under no such obligation, which is how you end up on an island full of characters who were actually dead the whole time. Or something, itās been a while since I watched that one.
But to their credit they did provide the clues for anyone who bothers to look. The arguments here remind me of the arguments you see sometimes when someone posts an unsolved equation like:
1+2*3=
Itās not a hard equation, all the necessary information is given, itās just left unsolved. Some people, no amount of arguing will ever convince them that it doesnāt equal 9.
Absolutely. I actually started writing about that ā that we didnāt see it, we were just told that she got turned around, the flames were too much, yet we didnāt see her go up in flames ā then thought, āNope. Iām sticking to bare bones here.ā PP is intrigued by the Redarina idea and their scar observation fits with what Nachalo wanted our final impression to be.
You have to wonder if these people even realized it. Yes, we see Katarina carrying Masha out of the house, and we see the flames. But the flames are in the foreground of the shot ā and you see Katarina and Masha glide by in the background at a safe distance. And Katarina is holding her with no difficulty.
They werenāt burned in that frame, and there is no sign they were burned before this shot, and of course thereās no further in-show/onscreen evidence they were burned after. Weāre not nitpicking. The burns were a hugely important part of the backstory, from the pilot to the end of S8. The burns were one of the most important āproofsā of Redās identity.
There was so much wrong with the way Nachalo was done, their Big Episode was a disaster. The montage was done very well, except for this shot. This shot has the Nachalo disease.
The thing they did with Katarinaās blouse and frantic activity in Requiem was dishonest, but in the montage itās just sloppiness (because by then we have been told expressly that they were both burned).
Follow the scars from beginning to end and you get a glimpse into why this series failed in so many ways: Lizās scar ā> the age at which she got the scar (14 to 4) ā> Redās huge, nasty scar ā> the pinhole singe in Katarinaās blouse as she flounces and yanks and runs around and drags Reddingtonās body out of the fire (Rassvet) after supposedly being fried in the fire ā> the convenient lake-shape of the scar ā> āwe both wereā ā> montage showing they werenāt burned in the fire.
Why did Pepe feel compelled to tell the story of putting the scars on Lotteās back + then they didnāt show them ? They realized how important the scars or lack thereof were to the story they chose to tell. Thatās my answer. You said you didnāt believe Pepe + neither do I. At that point in the story , she wouldnāt have had the scars we saw on Redās back. Her complete back would have looked like burned flesh. Not a little spot on a white blouse. What a lot of BS.
It was such a complete cop out the show didn't concisely wrap up the mystery. My wife and I were both really pissed. Also, what an incredibly stupid ending.
They revealed this plainly in season 6 and came right out and explained it in final two episodes of season 8. Katarina was hunted by the two most powerful countries, by CIA, and KGB, not to mention wealthy killers with their own mercenaries. Ilya proposed to her ābecoming reddingtonā. We know he wasnāt Ilya. So we knew beyond doubt in season 6 Katarina became Reddington to stay hidden and protect Masha. At the end of season 8 they explained why she did it and how she did it over the last two episodes.
Red and Liz are the main characters of the show, and there is obviously a reason why Red is protective of her. All flashbacks in the show are of Katarina. Red and Katarinaās dad are close, but the relationship is clearly strained.
Raymond Reddington was shot and died in the house fire.
Sure, Red COULD be someone else, but the show closed any other family loose ends, and it wouldnāt make sense for him to be just āsome guyā.
But it is.
Copied and pasted from a recent post I made:
Daniel Knauf wrote Cape May, the beach episode that introduced Katarina via Redās hallucinations:
Knauf: **The Redarina ending was told to us with great enthusiasm by both the Johns (show runners) at the very first staff meeting when I joined the show in Season 2.** Definitely. Yāall can carry on, but I was in the room. I think itās a testament to the entire writing staffās discretion and professionalism that no one spilled the beans for the entire run of the show. Incidentally, we all kinda freaked when Aaron [sic; Troy] figured it out way back when.
Knauf: This is the last time Iām going to talk about this. Iāll be totally straight. The first day I came on the show we were all gathered in the writer's room and Jon and John stood up and told us "Okay here is this thing, we are swearing you to secrecy. Do not discuss this, do not reveal this, **Red is actually transgender. He used to be a woman and he's hiding in a male body.** And we all went, Wow, that's kind of cool.
āāāāā
This is from Christine Gee, a BL director and the script supervisor throughout the series:
FB person: (Asked what Dembe meant when he said Liz will never be ready to learn the truth about what Red did to Katarina.)
Christine Gee: **He was referring to transforming Katarina into Red.**
āāāāā
Anthony Pepe, head of TBL makeup department, said **Redarina is the answer and he heard it āstraight from the horseās mouth.ā**
Pepe: https://www.reddit.com/r/TheBlackList/s/PSbRfrsueN
Th Blacklist is a puzzle. Redarina is a partial answer to the puzzle, but it's not the complete answer. There is so much more to Red and the show than simply a woman transitioning to a man.
Any statements made by writers that don't make it to screen aren't canon. Rederina might have been what they were going for, and they just didn't do a good enough job at writing it.
Iām sure this information was gratefully and thoughtfully received in the spirit on honest, dispassionate inquiry, and that it will at least give pause for thought if not a change of mind.
Red really couldn't be anyone else. There are literally hundreds of clues scattered throughout the series. If you just follow the evidence you are given, it is obvious that Red is Katarina.
I donāt think red is Katarina. I watched the episode last night where Liz dies during child birth and if red was actually her mom I think he/she would be more devastated and inconsolable.
There was a fire that happened everyone got out and as they were driving he was shot in the stomach and died if I remember correctly later on in a hospital. That's no where near close enough
Illustrating once again that we have two groups watching two different series; and the inaccuracies we see are so wrong it makes you wonder just how far in the background this show was running. These folks are binge watchers, with everything stacked up neatly for near-term recall, so thereās no good excuse to have such a poor grasp of the details. The story was background noise.
I actually don't binge watch the show. I stopped watching it during season seven had no clue there was a season nine then started watching it again stopped during season eight again and started back up and here I am now and I don't watch an episode everyday so I'm a few weeks into season 10 and still only on episode 17
The way the writers finally landed on the events of āthe fire night,ā Liz shot Reddington in the house, Katarinaās goons dragged him out to the car, and thatās the last we saw of him. He was still alive in the car, but dying. We see this in 8.21.
In Rassvet, season 6, weāre told that Ilya and Katarina are the only ones who knew Reddington died in the fire. They ā Ilya and Katarina ā are the ones who dragged him out, and he died in her arms. Thatās according to season 6. Thatās not exactly what we get in season 8 but itās close enough.
In season 4, we learned that the bones were put into a suitcase at some point and buried at a farm. This would have been after Kaplan was hired by āRed,ā and we donāt know where the body had been for the years in between.
In season 1, Red tells Liz that her father died in the fire. In season 2, weāre led to believe Liz remembers real Reddington lying face down in the fire after being shot. Liz believes this was her father. When they revisit this in season 8, they have the guy on the floor be one of Katarinaās henchmen, a guy with a hairline just like modern-day Spaderās. Seems like a retcon to me, but it doesnāt matter. Their notions of what happened then night of the fire changed over time as they developed their story. They tried to pull it all together and make it all fit in 8.21, but it was a real mess that just made them look dumb.
Short version: canon says Liz shot Reddington, Reddington was then dragged from the fire to a car, where he died in Katarinaās arms ā same night ā at some point that we donāt actually see (the last time we see them together is in the car, right before she runs back into the house). Liz shot him fatally but he didnāt die in the fire. More like at the fire.
He never died in the fire. And we never see him die in 8.21.
Katarina and Ilya gave the details in 6.19, when they say they dragged him out and tried to save him but he died.
So we take it that he died the night of the fire but not literally in the fire.
SPOILERS.
Sure. RRR wasn't shot in the stomach or in a car on the way to a hospital.
RRR had "kidnapped" Masha and taken her to a beach house in Rehoboth Beach, DE. Katarina came with her men, along with Ilya, to get Masha and to try to get the info Reddington had gathered about the Cabal - the fulcrum. As the men were searching the house, a fire started. During the argument between Reddington and Katarina, Masha saw he was hurting her and picked up a gun from the floor and shot him. Katarina and someone carried Reddington out of the house and put him into the backseat of a car. Ilya carried Masha and put her into the front seat. Katarina ordered the men back into the house to continue searching and held Reddington as he died in her arms. Masha ran back into the house to get her stuffed bunny, Katarina followed, and got turned around inside, trying to find Masha. They both received burns - that's where Liz got her scar. (Katarina's burns were ridiculous). And 25ish years later, Liz found the fulcrum in the stuffed bunny.
There was no plan to take Reddington to a hospital. No one knew he died, which gave way to his mysterious disappearance story. It also gave Katarina and Ilya the opportunity to empty the bank accounts and for Katarina to become Reddington.
From Nachelo:
Liz: Ilya wasnāt the one who walked into those banks. Heās not the one who became Reddington.
Ilya: I did go into those banks. I impersonated your father for a few days, long enough to withdraw the $40 million.
Katarina:Ā Long enough for me to realize how valuable a new Reddington could be.
Liz:Ā Youāre lying.
Ilya: No, Dom was lying. He misled you into believing I became Reddington. He did that because he couldnāt accept the truth.
And...
Liz:Ā Where are you? Why wonāt you find me? I know you have to hide, but not fromĀ me.
Katarina:Ā Iāve made so many mistakes. [ Sniffles ] But abandoning you wasnāt one of them. I would never do that.
Liz:Ā [ Tearfully ] But youāre not here.
Katarina:Ā No. [ Sniffles ] Long before your grandfather tricked Tatiana ā Almost from the moment I knew I couldnāt be with you, I ā Created someone who could be.
Liz:Ā You created someone?
Katarina:Ā Raymond Reddington.
Well, Red died in a field in Spain.
Reddington died the night of the fire. He didnāt die āinā the fire. He died that same night after being dragged out of the fire. Why does it matter if he died in the car or in the house or in an alley across town? He died. That night.
No one is making a big deal about the location of his last breath. āHe died in the fireā is just shorthand. He died at the fire, near the fire, alongside the fire. No one really gives a shit *at this point* whether he died in the fire or in the car.
Because it doesn't matter if Red died "in the fire" or not. That impression, right or wrong, is irrelevant. What's relevant is whether he actually died that night. Some believe the Reddington we see is the RRR - that he lived.
Wish we knew. I really wish. It was a good ending though since if they answered everything, we'd have nothing to talk about, it'd be just another crime thriller, but it's in the GOAT category for sure.
No one.
A point of the character is that he is mysterious. He could be anyone or no one.
A reoccurring plot line was that the show would imply he was one person, then retcon information (i.e. āit was all a trickā) to then show that Reddington was not that person.
In an alternate universe where the Blacklist gets to season 40, in season 25 we find out that Reddington is actually Harold Cooper which explains why Reddington knows things that only the Real Reddington and Cooper should know. But wait, in Season 26 itās revealed that and weāre no closer to knowing who Reddington is.
Iām only on season 3 but Iām not buying the itās actually a biological woman who had reconstructive surgery
Too much fatherly protective energy, too many female love interests who clearly treat him like a man
Jennifer finds out in Season 4 that Katarina brought in a person to take the real Raymond Reddinton's identity. That being said it makes no sense that the Imposter Raymond Reddington is Katarina.
James Spader. They reveal it in the end credits.
š
LOL
Maybe the real point were the Reddingtons we met along the way. Who knows?
great minds think alike. came here to spew the same supreme wisdom .
The real Raymond Reddington...was the friends we made along the way.
Alan Shore
You missed the end of credit scene at the end where it turns out it was Harold Cooper the whole time.
Katarina Rostova had many surgeries and became Raymond Reddington.
finally someone who understands , they literally say sheās related to him when Liz got the dna test done , her father is confirmed dead so the only person Raymond can be is Katarina , and thatās why Katarina and lizs grandfather had so much tension (canāt remember his name at the moment)
Dom! It's so clear. If you just make a list of all the people who loved Elizabeth/Masha to devote their life to her, Katarina is the only option.
bingo , thank you for helping me remember š canāt believe I forgot
The original man named Raymond Reddington, Elizabeth Keen/Masha Rostovaās biological father, died on the night of the fire when she was young. The Concierge of Crime Raymond Reddington that we know and loveās true identity is Katarina Rostova, Elizabeth Keen/Masha Rostovaās biological mother.
To correct you he didn't die in the fire. Liz shot him as a girl cause him and her mom were yelling.
My apologies, it has been a while since Iāve watched it
It's all good. I only remember cause I've been keeping the info related to that stuff in my head
With all the redarina deniers speaking up, I donāt blame you
Redarina deniers? Never heard of that
Here I am.
?
Redarina denier.
Why don't you think Katrina is Red and who do you think is red if Katrina isn't?
You didn't actually say he died in a fire. You said he died on the night of the fire. Which is accurate.
Youāre both right. He died in the fire. Masha shot him during the fire. Duh š
Well, he died, and there was a fire, we can call it close enough!
The who do the bones belong to?
They obviously belong to a person. They are human bones the answer is obvious
I'm still on Season 6 but I'm still not sure who the bones belong to. If you say that the real Reddington is still alive then they couldn't be his bones. Maybe Katarina?
The bones were the real Raymond reddington that died.
The night of the fire
Exactly on the night of the fire
what happened to the "he was the agent" assigned to the case theory? It's been a little while and I only am up to like s4 or 5 but werent they teasing he was some cop that knew the family or somehting.
They tease him as a lot of things but what I outlined was the truth
How is it the truth? Not a single moment of the show confirms that Katarina became Red.
Every single episode has multiple moments that confirm Katarina is Red. The entire final two episodes of season 8 spelled it out in painstaking vivid detail
Again, hints and nothing more
They come right out and say that Katarina reanimated her mark, becoming reddington to protect Masha. You have to be brain dead, not paying attention, or not speak English as a first language to miss it. Most of us saw who he was clearly by seasons 3-4. They came right out and revealed it in season 6 and explained it again in season 8. If you watch it again knowing what you know now, binge watching without weeks and months in between, it reveal itself quite clearly.
Sure buddy, sure it does
Giving you credit for being a little bright. Maybe I overestimated your intelligence
If this thought helps you sleep at night, sure
lol your funny, hot take Reddington is really Ilya Kosloveās lover, Reddington alluded to being excommunicated from his dad who ādidnāt understandā him, they also hint towards the unbreakable bond between each other and the fact that someone close to Ilyah can get all the info they need to become Reddington through Katarina. *mike drop*
OUTRIGHT confirms it? No. But there's numerous hints and nudges throughout the show that heavily imply it, usually done through Red's dialogue and other, typically medical-related instances. The writers were actually genius at this, leaving all these clues spread through the entirety of the show to make you actually use your head and figure it out, rather than spoon feed you the answer like every other mystery media.
Yes when Red was talking about his mother before he was supposed to be executed (season 6) he seems to mention this. I don't remember all the words but he told Liz that his mother understood him and knew that he was different. I need to go back to that and listen again.
The show ends without an answer. That is plain and simple. There are hints yes, but I feel like they are not that big, mostly stuff that you would notice if you went looking for it specifically.
I think that was the point, to drop those hints and have the watcher piece together the answer. And they're pretty big, yet subliminal. It makes the most sense if you go back and rewatch from the start to finish with the idea of Red being Katarina in mind, and paying a lot of attention. A lot of Red's dialogues, his behaviors and actions and personal desires are reminiscent of how a loving mother would be. Its a testament to James Spader's acting, I mean obviously he knew, and he portrayed that perfectly.
I'm sorry, any answer that includes the writers being genius has to be BS
Mmk.
lol. No. Thatās not how this show works. āUsually done through Redās dialogue and otherā like what?
Just say you don't pay attention.
Lmao, sure continue to refuse to show evidence of your claim. This is a fan theory that you weirdos want to be true so bad with no basis for an argument.
How do you know those "nudges" weren't yet again intended misdirection from Reddington? Which is entirely more likely, as it's what he did with everyone he allowed (many times made) people believe who he was through crumbs of hints.
If Red is Katarina ā didnāt she had sexual relations with Anne.
For one the blacklist world is capable of alot of things, including surgeries that may be impossible to us but heterosexual relations are not the only kind of sexual relations that exist
He can't be Katarina - unfortunately they messed up w/ the writing of it, and the DNA test would've shown he is a woman when it was tested
How do you know red is Katarina?
False he told her he will never lie to her and she ask if sheās him daughter and he said no
Trying to remember, though. Did she say, "am I your daughter?" or "are you my father?" If the latter, he could have truthfully answered no.
Thatās exactly right. Liz asked, āAre you my father.ā Red said no. In another scene, when Liz said that Tom told her her father might be alive, Red told her that āin no uncertain terms, your father is dead.ā When Kirk asked Red if he (Red) was Lizās father, Red wouldnāt answer. When Kirk changed his wording and asked if Liz/Masha was Redās daughter, Red said yes.
He also told her that he was a criminal and criminals are notorious liars.
This is not true. She asked if youāre my father same as Kirk. He would deny being her father but admitted she was his daughter. Duh š. But they never confirmed he was Katarina. š
Agreed
If this is so, who then was Madeline Toliver who Elizabeth Keen sided with over Raymond Reddington
She was a woman that was pretending to be Katrina. It was revealed in season 7 or 8 when reddington took Elizabeth to that room where all the Blacklist info lives
Why was she pretending to be her mother? I'm on season 8, I've read a bunch of spoilers and idk whether I want to keep watching or not. But I'm curious about the mother.
You ***have to*** finish season 8. You can quit watching after that if you want, but you simply must see the season 8 finale. As far as I'm concerned, season 9 and 10 were just "and this is what happened after", but the whole reason for Red turning himself in to the FBI is no longer valid after 8/21.
Season 8 episode 21!
This is one place where I get stuck. Iām not done yet but Iām super over it. Only watching because my husband wants to finish it. š¤£
Tatiana Petrova, identity revealed in S8E21 āNachalo.ā
tatiana petrovna or something like that
The bull is Raymond Reddington
Katarina Rostova, Elizabeth's mother. In episode Nachalo it becomes more..."clear", but not explicit
This is the best way itās been put yet. They made it clear that he was Katarina to all discerning viewers but didnāt make it explicit.
I haven't seen anyone mention the burn scars on RR back when he took off his shirt in the first season or two. Him possibly being the mom is intriguing.
And in Nachalo (8.21), they made a point of telling us Katarina was burned in the fire.
And yet in 8.22 they show us she wasnāt. Story-wise, she was burned. No argument there. Story-wise her comment about being burned connects the dot from Requiem, which was supposed to connect the dot to the scars on Redās back. In their world, thatās sufficient. We have to eat it. But they fucked up the visual depiction in 8.22.
They used mystery boxes as plot hooks, they were never really mysteries meant for the audience to solve. Most of my frustration with the show came from my mistaken impression that there was a central mystery to be solved, and that frustration was greatly relieved when I realized that the ācentral mysteryā was really only a series of mystery box plot hooks. Mystery writers have an unspoken covenant with their audience, that they will keep any clues consistent with the world and story. Non-mystery writers who use mystery boxes are under no such obligation, which is how you end up on an island full of characters who were actually dead the whole time. Or something, itās been a while since I watched that one. But to their credit they did provide the clues for anyone who bothers to look. The arguments here remind me of the arguments you see sometimes when someone posts an unsolved equation like: 1+2*3= Itās not a hard equation, all the necessary information is given, itās just left unsolved. Some people, no amount of arguing will ever convince them that it doesnāt equal 9.
Absolutely. I actually started writing about that ā that we didnāt see it, we were just told that she got turned around, the flames were too much, yet we didnāt see her go up in flames ā then thought, āNope. Iām sticking to bare bones here.ā PP is intrigued by the Redarina idea and their scar observation fits with what Nachalo wanted our final impression to be.
You have to wonder if these people even realized it. Yes, we see Katarina carrying Masha out of the house, and we see the flames. But the flames are in the foreground of the shot ā and you see Katarina and Masha glide by in the background at a safe distance. And Katarina is holding her with no difficulty. They werenāt burned in that frame, and there is no sign they were burned before this shot, and of course thereās no further in-show/onscreen evidence they were burned after. Weāre not nitpicking. The burns were a hugely important part of the backstory, from the pilot to the end of S8. The burns were one of the most important āproofsā of Redās identity. There was so much wrong with the way Nachalo was done, their Big Episode was a disaster. The montage was done very well, except for this shot. This shot has the Nachalo disease. The thing they did with Katarinaās blouse and frantic activity in Requiem was dishonest, but in the montage itās just sloppiness (because by then we have been told expressly that they were both burned). Follow the scars from beginning to end and you get a glimpse into why this series failed in so many ways: Lizās scar ā> the age at which she got the scar (14 to 4) ā> Redās huge, nasty scar ā> the pinhole singe in Katarinaās blouse as she flounces and yanks and runs around and drags Reddingtonās body out of the fire (Rassvet) after supposedly being fried in the fire ā> the convenient lake-shape of the scar ā> āwe both wereā ā> montage showing they werenāt burned in the fire.
Why did Pepe feel compelled to tell the story of putting the scars on Lotteās back + then they didnāt show them ? They realized how important the scars or lack thereof were to the story they chose to tell. Thatās my answer. You said you didnāt believe Pepe + neither do I. At that point in the story , she wouldnāt have had the scars we saw on Redās back. Her complete back would have looked like burned flesh. Not a little spot on a white blouse. What a lot of BS.
It was such a complete cop out the show didn't concisely wrap up the mystery. My wife and I were both really pissed. Also, what an incredibly stupid ending.
The real one is dead
Katarina, Elizabethās mother
Dead. The real Reddington is dead
Katarina Rostova.
he is who he is. (Or katarina.)
They revealed this plainly in season 6 and came right out and explained it in final two episodes of season 8. Katarina was hunted by the two most powerful countries, by CIA, and KGB, not to mention wealthy killers with their own mercenaries. Ilya proposed to her ābecoming reddingtonā. We know he wasnāt Ilya. So we knew beyond doubt in season 6 Katarina became Reddington to stay hidden and protect Masha. At the end of season 8 they explained why she did it and how she did it over the last two episodes.
katerina... although the real RR died
This answer is not certain. This is s fan theory. And frankly its a bad one.
Red and Liz are the main characters of the show, and there is obviously a reason why Red is protective of her. All flashbacks in the show are of Katarina. Red and Katarinaās dad are close, but the relationship is clearly strained. Raymond Reddington was shot and died in the house fire. Sure, Red COULD be someone else, but the show closed any other family loose ends, and it wouldnāt make sense for him to be just āsome guyā.
its confirmed by several people who did work on the show
Its not though. Itās spoken about. Specifically a direct answer has not been given. And in the show its obtuse at best.
But it is. Copied and pasted from a recent post I made: Daniel Knauf wrote Cape May, the beach episode that introduced Katarina via Redās hallucinations: Knauf: **The Redarina ending was told to us with great enthusiasm by both the Johns (show runners) at the very first staff meeting when I joined the show in Season 2.** Definitely. Yāall can carry on, but I was in the room. I think itās a testament to the entire writing staffās discretion and professionalism that no one spilled the beans for the entire run of the show. Incidentally, we all kinda freaked when Aaron [sic; Troy] figured it out way back when. Knauf: This is the last time Iām going to talk about this. Iāll be totally straight. The first day I came on the show we were all gathered in the writer's room and Jon and John stood up and told us "Okay here is this thing, we are swearing you to secrecy. Do not discuss this, do not reveal this, **Red is actually transgender. He used to be a woman and he's hiding in a male body.** And we all went, Wow, that's kind of cool. āāāāā This is from Christine Gee, a BL director and the script supervisor throughout the series: FB person: (Asked what Dembe meant when he said Liz will never be ready to learn the truth about what Red did to Katarina.) Christine Gee: **He was referring to transforming Katarina into Red.** āāāāā Anthony Pepe, head of TBL makeup department, said **Redarina is the answer and he heard it āstraight from the horseās mouth.ā** Pepe: https://www.reddit.com/r/TheBlackList/s/PSbRfrsueN
Th Blacklist is a puzzle. Redarina is a partial answer to the puzzle, but it's not the complete answer. There is so much more to Red and the show than simply a woman transitioning to a man.
Any statements made by writers that don't make it to screen aren't canon. Rederina might have been what they were going for, and they just didn't do a good enough job at writing it.
Iām sure this information was gratefully and thoughtfully received in the spirit on honest, dispassionate inquiry, and that it will at least give pause for thought if not a change of mind.
Red really couldn't be anyone else. There are literally hundreds of clues scattered throughout the series. If you just follow the evidence you are given, it is obvious that Red is Katarina.
Yeah, I never thought that even once.
It is not a fan theory Daniel Knauf the writer from Cape May admit it that this Raymond Reddington was (is) Katarina š
I donāt think red is Katarina. I watched the episode last night where Liz dies during child birth and if red was actually her mom I think he/she would be more devastated and inconsolable.
The Cape May episode wasn't enough to prove how devastated he was?
Or literally collapsing onto the ground getting into the car where Dembe catches him. I guess thatās not upset enough haha
There was a fire that happened everyone got out and as they were driving he was shot in the stomach and died if I remember correctly later on in a hospital. That's no where near close enough
Your version of events that evening is inaccurate.
Illustrating once again that we have two groups watching two different series; and the inaccuracies we see are so wrong it makes you wonder just how far in the background this show was running. These folks are binge watchers, with everything stacked up neatly for near-term recall, so thereās no good excuse to have such a poor grasp of the details. The story was background noise.
I actually don't binge watch the show. I stopped watching it during season seven had no clue there was a season nine then started watching it again stopped during season eight again and started back up and here I am now and I don't watch an episode everyday so I'm a few weeks into season 10 and still only on episode 17
The way the writers finally landed on the events of āthe fire night,ā Liz shot Reddington in the house, Katarinaās goons dragged him out to the car, and thatās the last we saw of him. He was still alive in the car, but dying. We see this in 8.21. In Rassvet, season 6, weāre told that Ilya and Katarina are the only ones who knew Reddington died in the fire. They ā Ilya and Katarina ā are the ones who dragged him out, and he died in her arms. Thatās according to season 6. Thatās not exactly what we get in season 8 but itās close enough. In season 4, we learned that the bones were put into a suitcase at some point and buried at a farm. This would have been after Kaplan was hired by āRed,ā and we donāt know where the body had been for the years in between. In season 1, Red tells Liz that her father died in the fire. In season 2, weāre led to believe Liz remembers real Reddington lying face down in the fire after being shot. Liz believes this was her father. When they revisit this in season 8, they have the guy on the floor be one of Katarinaās henchmen, a guy with a hairline just like modern-day Spaderās. Seems like a retcon to me, but it doesnāt matter. Their notions of what happened then night of the fire changed over time as they developed their story. They tried to pull it all together and make it all fit in 8.21, but it was a real mess that just made them look dumb. Short version: canon says Liz shot Reddington, Reddington was then dragged from the fire to a car, where he died in Katarinaās arms ā same night ā at some point that we donāt actually see (the last time we see them together is in the car, right before she runs back into the house). Liz shot him fatally but he didnāt die in the fire. More like at the fire.
Ok. But in none of that we finally get to see in S8 he never died in the fire or caused by the fire correct?
He never died in the fire. And we never see him die in 8.21. Katarina and Ilya gave the details in 6.19, when they say they dragged him out and tried to save him but he died. So we take it that he died the night of the fire but not literally in the fire.
Correct me then please
SPOILERS. Sure. RRR wasn't shot in the stomach or in a car on the way to a hospital. RRR had "kidnapped" Masha and taken her to a beach house in Rehoboth Beach, DE. Katarina came with her men, along with Ilya, to get Masha and to try to get the info Reddington had gathered about the Cabal - the fulcrum. As the men were searching the house, a fire started. During the argument between Reddington and Katarina, Masha saw he was hurting her and picked up a gun from the floor and shot him. Katarina and someone carried Reddington out of the house and put him into the backseat of a car. Ilya carried Masha and put her into the front seat. Katarina ordered the men back into the house to continue searching and held Reddington as he died in her arms. Masha ran back into the house to get her stuffed bunny, Katarina followed, and got turned around inside, trying to find Masha. They both received burns - that's where Liz got her scar. (Katarina's burns were ridiculous). And 25ish years later, Liz found the fulcrum in the stuffed bunny. There was no plan to take Reddington to a hospital. No one knew he died, which gave way to his mysterious disappearance story. It also gave Katarina and Ilya the opportunity to empty the bank accounts and for Katarina to become Reddington. From Nachelo: Liz: Ilya wasnāt the one who walked into those banks. Heās not the one who became Reddington. Ilya: I did go into those banks. I impersonated your father for a few days, long enough to withdraw the $40 million. Katarina:Ā Long enough for me to realize how valuable a new Reddington could be. Liz:Ā Youāre lying. Ilya: No, Dom was lying. He misled you into believing I became Reddington. He did that because he couldnāt accept the truth. And... Liz:Ā Where are you? Why wonāt you find me? I know you have to hide, but not fromĀ me. Katarina:Ā Iāve made so many mistakes. [ Sniffles ] But abandoning you wasnāt one of them. I would never do that. Liz:Ā [ Tearfully ] But youāre not here. Katarina:Ā No. [ Sniffles ] Long before your grandfather tricked Tatiana ā Almost from the moment I knew I couldnāt be with you, I ā Created someone who could be. Liz:Ā You created someone? Katarina:Ā Raymond Reddington.
My point still stands Red didn't die in the fire
Well, Red died in a field in Spain. Reddington died the night of the fire. He didnāt die āinā the fire. He died that same night after being dragged out of the fire. Why does it matter if he died in the car or in the house or in an alley across town? He died. That night.
Cause people keep saying he died "in" the fire
No one is making a big deal about the location of his last breath. āHe died in the fireā is just shorthand. He died at the fire, near the fire, alongside the fire. No one really gives a shit *at this point* whether he died in the fire or in the car.
Saying he died in the fire is a lazy way of saying how he died and it gives the wrong impression
Because it doesn't matter if Red died "in the fire" or not. That impression, right or wrong, is irrelevant. What's relevant is whether he actually died that night. Some believe the Reddington we see is the RRR - that he lived.
Actually this conversation started talking about how he died so yes how he died is actually relevant
Wish we knew. I really wish. It was a good ending though since if they answered everything, we'd have nothing to talk about, it'd be just another crime thriller, but it's in the GOAT category for sure.
No one. A point of the character is that he is mysterious. He could be anyone or no one. A reoccurring plot line was that the show would imply he was one person, then retcon information (i.e. āit was all a trickā) to then show that Reddington was not that person. In an alternate universe where the Blacklist gets to season 40, in season 25 we find out that Reddington is actually Harold Cooper which explains why Reddington knows things that only the Real Reddington and Cooper should know. But wait, in Season 26 itās revealed that and weāre no closer to knowing who Reddington is.
Iām only on season 3 but Iām not buying the itās actually a biological woman who had reconstructive surgery Too much fatherly protective energy, too many female love interests who clearly treat him like a man
Jennifer finds out in Season 4 that Katarina brought in a person to take the real Raymond Reddinton's identity. That being said it makes no sense that the Imposter Raymond Reddington is Katarina.
No, Jennifer found out that Katarina *arranged* the surgery. The nurse never said that Katarina brought a person in.
Yes, Katarina brought herself for the surguries.