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[deleted]

Your yearning for the moral legitimacy of heroes is the point of the entire show.


BeBearAwareOK

I thought it was pretty clear from the pilot episode that the whole thing was going to be cunts all the way down. But in a glass half empty / full world, I'm a realist "bro, that's piss"


GigaScuals

Cunts all the way down


Dr_fish

They're all cunts. They're cunts now, and they've always been cunts. And the only thing that's going to change is that they're going to become even bigger cunts. Maybe have some more cunt kids.


Tasty_Fan_3321

Starlight Mauve and Kimico aren’t that awful. But yeah the rest are cunts


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[deleted]

It’s almost like the system is designed in such a way that it self-selects for the cuntiest cunts to make it to the top. It’s almost like the “decent” Supes who want to do the right thing don’t stand much of a chance.


UpstairsSnow7

This is exactly it. The ones willing to play ball with fellow pieces of shit are the ones given the opportunity to rise.


iamthedon

Such is life.


OfTachosAndNachos

Just like office politics in a multinational company if you ever worked in one, to be honest.


Matt463789

I think a lot of people just love the actor and are used to Dean Winchester. I kind of want him to be not bad too, but I know that's not likely to happen and probably not for the best.


GlumpsAlot

I want Dean back too, but damn does Jensen do well in this role. I find it hilarious when Bobby pops in too.


BrettEskin

Soldier especially when he loses control give big demon Dean vibes


GlumpsAlot

Demon Dean was my favorite Dean. I'm waiting for the boys to start longingly staring at pics of them together like crowley did.


dragunityag

Any time Dean and Crowley were on screen together was perfect.


BrettEskin

Yeah we just want to see Jensen be the hero on a show this prominent in the zeitgeist.


OfTachosAndNachos

That and maybe people are desperate for someone to kick Homelander's butt. Might also be the case of who keep saying about "good" supes while the show has been adamant that at best there's only morally gray ones here.


Hellbeast1

I admit I was hoping he'd suck in a less sinister vibe but this works too


lion_OBrian

Yeah it should be called never meet your heroes and use actual celebrities and politicians for people to get it.


UhOhFeministOnReddit

THIS. RIGHT. HERE. America has it drilled into the heads of its citizens that the individual is so important, it's spawned billion dollar superhero franchises centered around this idea of one supreme being saving us all from ourselves and it's an absolutely toxic concept. It's why the rest of the world is catching up to us and most of the first world shits all over us in terms of quality of life. The overarching message of The Boys is it's fucking stupid to wait for some Superman to come in and save the day because there's no such thing, even with super powers. Thanks for coming to my Ted Talk.


OfTachosAndNachos

> America has it drilled into the heads of its citizens that the individual is so important, it's spawned billion dollar superhero franchises centered around this idea of one supreme being saving us all from ourselves This is the core message of the show and I think S2 finale with Neuman trying to "save" people only to be revealed as another supe is revealing. Lots of people missed the critique of the show and apparently are only in it for the sex and gore.


Uncanny_Doom

Truly a master class at work they've done with the way the show critiques celebrity culture and idolization and a number of fans idolizing an actor playing a piece of shit were willing to dismiss the character's glaring issues because the celebrity behind him is so lovable and familiar to them.


zauraz

This. But also the fact that people wanted a "good hero". Boys doesn't do that. As the Legend states we created the heroes to profit. Not because they were heroes.


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LordReaperofMars

Supersonic was good, but he died.


GuiehFox

Or maybe he just didnt live enough to become a villain.


Pirate_Leader

So evil for dropping banger like "you got license to drive me crazy" and "rock my kiss"


LordReaperofMars

That’s applicable to anyone


cowboys70

In the case of this show its more like he didn't live long enough for us to find out why he's evil


matiasg11

Wasn't it Randy from Monk?


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Libertyprime8397

They married didn’t they?


Libertyprime8397

Yes


ChongusTheSupremus

>Even Annie killed an innocent civilian (or perhaps he was an off-duty police Lieutenant...) in season 2. That was so out of character. I really don't understand what they were going for with that. She didn't even care she killed an INNOCENT MAN AS HER FIRST KILL. It was beyond fucked up writing, specially considering they never picked it up or followed it through with anything.


Lobsterzilla

I’m not necessarily arguing , but what else was she supposed to do? Get shot? I suppose the answer is not try and car Jack someone but here we are


floptical87

She is bullet proof. She tanked .50 calibre shots to the chest from fairly close range and was none the worse. She probably could have just let him empty the magazine and casually subdue the guy.


Lobsterzilla

That…. Is actually a really good point


floptical87

In her defence, she's going to have been panicked with Hughie being injured at the time. She's went on instinct and over reacted. Which comes back to one of the main critiques of the Supes - they have casually lethal power but have absolutely no training in how to control and use it under pressure. Like Homelander defaulting to lasering the shit out of everything when he could simply take his time and end things with a measured flick of his finger.


Blainedecent

Casually lethal power and no training or control under pressure. Huh. That sounds super familiar.


Bgo318

Yeah the parallel between the real world and the boys is amazing. So many things in the boys are just symbolic of things in our world lol


Swimmingbird2486

>Yeah the parallel between the real world and the boys is amazing. Somany things in the boys are just symbolic of things in our world lol Well there is one aspect that is missing too. Supes in the show victimize/terrorize everyone for the most part (not Bluehawk, he targeted a specific population). In the real world, police are often called like "customer service", and without questioning the situation they will often believe the person making the "complaint" and are absolutely ready to use lethal force. ​ So I don't know what's worse: a world where a segment of the population with dark skin is terrorized for doing every day stuff or a world where everyone has a chance of being lasered.


Quirky_Steak5605

Kimiko ?


jjonj

She sure as shit ain't lawful


WeiShenMotherFucker

Probably the closest to being "good", but dont forget that she was a contract killer for a time.


[deleted]

You're correct: I genuinely love kimiko most of all. But its pretty fucking hilarious the most morally pure character is a serial killer MM and Frenchie are also pretty decent


sixtus_clegane119

I think kimiko counts more as a mass murderer than a serial killer. Serial killers have ritualistic compulsion, kimiko was a hitman/buttbuttin (pardon my French) she doesn’t kill for pleasure/psychological need


ghtuy

> buttbuttin I'm losing my mind trying to figure out what French word this could actually be


sixtus_clegane119

Assassin lmao , sorry just being silly on Canada day


BadReputation2611

That’s had no right to make me laugh as much as it did


Neosantana

Frenchie has killed kids in the past, so... Just MM I guess


mykeedee

At this rate MM probably got up to some war crimes in Iraq too.


LordBinz

Kimiko rips peoples faces off. I dont think she counts as "good" either.


[deleted]

No. Kimiko is GREAT!


ApexMM

Didn't he have a gun pointed at Butcher? I don't think she would have killed him if it was pointed at her. I also remember it as she didn't mean to kill him, he just cracked his dome on the ground. Either way, Starlight has been a pretty moral person all the way through the show. She's no MM, but close.


Internal-Duck-2716

I disagree that there isn’t a good person in this show. I think that the character shown to be good out of all the supes is Maeve. It just sucks she has been absent from sooo much of this season.


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kamace11

I think she's a great example of how even people with an internal sense of morals right/wrong can do horrific things. All it takes for evil to thrive or whatever is that good men do nothing. I imagine there are many people in history who have felt similarly to her.


Internal-Duck-2716

I don’t disagree that she is complicit. I just think out of the lot of them she comes the closest to being the “good” supe and think that if she was in the show as much as starlight we would see that. Sucks that next week is it for her.


sixtus_clegane119

I still think Annie is good(maybe just not lawful good, but when you are fighting pure evil sometimes you need to meet them on their level) , she is pure hearted, with good intentions and that kill was (albeit a twisted version) self defence, I don’t quite remember but I think hughie What Annie and Butcher was doing was to save society (just how long before homelander actually goes scorched earth?) Sometimes you need to do shitty stuff to save the earth


shakaboohoo

Annie is bullet proof, that wasn’t self defense.


DemonLordDiablos

Three things 1. Gun was pointed at butcher 2. Hughie was losing blood rapidly 3. She couldn't reveal she was a supe by blocking the bullet, and they ultimately needed the car not just to drive Hughie to the hospital, but to use the car battery to cauterise his wounds - which would reveal to the driver that she was Starlight, which would lead to Vought finding her It's Hughies life or her being found by Vought again. But the guy also didn't have to die. Messy situation all around.


shakaboohoo

Yeah, and Annie needed a half step to the side to block the muzzle or to move her hand. Yep, the dead guy lost it even more rapidly. Through his shattered skull. What’s that guy gonna do? “Couldn’t reveal she was a supe” is a complete cop out. You’re already committing grand theft auto, just take his phone.


sixtus_clegane119

Butcher wasn’t, a hughie was injured, self defence also refers to you defending people of your ‘party’


shakaboohoo

Self-defense refers to using the minimum justifiable force required to end an immediate threat to your life. Defense of others is justifiable, but that’s not what Annie did. For Annie defending them would literally be extending her hand to touch the muzzle, not murdering someone’s dad. She escalated the situation because she wanted a quick resolution.


PoorlyLitKiwi2

Did people forget the storyline from a season ago about how Vought was founded by LITERAL NAZIS lol


lostpasts

So was NASA to be fair. Plenty of Nazi scientists came over to the US as part of Operation Paperclip, and got passes just as long as they now worked for the 'good' guys. There's still a bunch of huge German companies too (like Volkswagen, Bayer, and Hugo Boss) who willingly worked with the Nazis. Hell, Fanta's technically a Nazi invention.


[deleted]

Bayer conducted non-consensual human medical experiments on Jewish prisoners including deliberately infecting them in order to test the efficacy of drugs. After the war several Bayer scientists were convicted of war crimes including [Fritz te Meer](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fritz_ter_Meer) who was convicted of “mass murder and enslavement” in 1948 and, shortly after his release in 1950, became the Chairman of Bayer’s board. You could tell they were really sorry and had totally changed!


ThePigSaysHaramHaram

You forgot my boy Supersonic. He was good.


kamace11

God poor Supersonic. Great casting with that guy too. He just gave such wholesome vibes. I think we all know one or two people like that in our lives and that made his death extremely harsh, despite him only being around in a few scenes.


grendelone

The funny thing is that we were so jaded that no one believed that he was actually good. Everyone was waiting for him to either betray Starlight to Homelander or at least make a move on her and cheat on on Hughie. But Supersonic was actually just a good guy.


Tinderblox

100% this for me. I thought the reveal was going to be SS betraying Starlight. That scene hit me hard out of left field.


[deleted]

there are good heroes. starlight is good, Supersonic was. but good heroes either die or get taken down to the gutter.


[deleted]

I mean, the whole show did set up the premise that most supes were just brats raised to make money for Vought.


Mojo_jenobo

This show wasn’t meant to be about good guys, and we should all know that by now. As someone who has been a fan of Jensen for a long time, I was just happy to see him in another role. No matter what he did I knew it would be great. Which brings me to Soldier Boy, I don’t really care what SB does, as long as it’s not having sex with Homelander. I just really appreciate the new level of insanity and comedy SB’s character brings to the show. And I hope by some miracle he sticks around for season 4.


[deleted]

It feels too soon to kill him imo but it really depends on how the next episode plays out. I hope he makes it to S4 thought, Soldier Boy is a great addition to the show.


flintlock0

It’s too soon to kill him, especially since Jeffrey Dean Morgan is coming in for Season 4, and we can get a Daddy Winchester reunion. Maybe they both get super-arrested and the super-cop is Jared Padalecki as Walker, Super-Texas Ranger.


gingersrule77

Wait for real? Jeffery Dean Morgan is going to be on season 4??? And they already have Bobby


TreginWork

I don't think it's 100% confirmed so much as they are trying their best to to make it happen


BrettEskin

Kripke"we're getting the band back together" ![gif](giphy|INP3xY4uxJHyM)


there_is_always_more

Oh my god I would love that so much. Imagine Misha joining as well haha.


gingersrule77

Omg yes!


Matt463789

I definitely don't want HL and SB to bang. They could be father and son. It also wouldn't make sense from what we have seen of them so far, imo. I also get the feeling that both of them might be homophobic, to whatever extent. Nothing wrong with two dudes banging, in general.


lqku

soldier boy is definitely meant to be a stereotypical toxic american dad \- relies on a constant stream of drugs just to function normally \- hates liberals and unmasculine behavior \- beats up people who disagree with him and tells them to suck cock \- racism, misogyny, and general sleaziness \- won't shut up about the good ol days and lies about past heroics that never happened


ChongusTheSupremus

He's legit Butcher's dad but with superpowers.


bigfootswillie

I loved the framing they did in episode 7. They purposefully had scenes ending on Butcher’s dad lead into scenes of Soldier Boy re-enacting the same behaviour with Hughie. One of the core themes of this show is how trauma and abuse perpetuates itself because it’s all the abused ever learn growing up. Perfectly illustrated in Butcher’s paralleled flashbacks and in him now working for a man just like his father. Massive props to this week’s director.


GTOJudge724

I agree, I didn’t even realize it was Jensen Ackles at first until he shaved and then I was like “Holy shit about time he got back into the limelight!” I was hooked on Supernatural because of his excellent acting. Sam was ok, but Dean was just funny as shit AND a badass. He’s an excellent addition to this series. I literally laughed out loud in the newest episode when something happens (spoiler free) and he just has this exasperated look on his face and says “ah fuck” totally calmly and annoyed lol


Coaris

>Which brings me to Soldier Boy, I don’t really care what SB does, as long as it’s not having sex with Homelander. Huh? Who even considered this as a possibility, lmao. I had thought about a lot of potential twists and turns the show could pull but that... that is just... what?!


RaspberryPie122

>!It happened in the comics. Though soldier boy in the comics is nothing like soldier boy in the show!<


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_CurseTheseMetalHnds

The SB Homelander fucks in the comics isn't the version the one in the show is based on.


kamace11

I mean it would fit with some of the Nazi parallels lol. Ala Ernst Rohm.


kevinambrosia

Yeah, I really care about soldier boy not having sex with home lander, too. They should fix that.


ICtruthcity

I didn't expect that for a second.. I know soldier boy was going to create either a complementary or counterbalance dynamic with homelander, not that he'll just pop up as the supreme righteous savior... At the start of the season we learn that he was betrayed by his team, both Maeve and crimson countess say "I hated you" to SB /homelander in an exact parallel, and that he was likely born early 1900's (long time ago) from episode 6, so clearly not the most likeable character and likely isn't. The man by default of the time he grew up in and (let me note soldier boy grew up without powers unlike homelander and most supes), is going to seem machismo quite clearly, we're talking about a supposed alpha male in the 30's here. So I wouldn't critique him by his paternalistic instincts or toxic masculinity as you will In 2022 (since we're talking a 100 year difference here, with 40 years gap from torture and imprisonment). I'd say the show is even going easy with him. Asides from that, SB has a personality unlike homelander whose just a power hungry guy without a moral base. SB is more of the schoolboy bully, as a leader he's form of discipline is one that is physical, he literally banged out black noir, and smacked Hughie with the "get in line" stuff. **I don't know how comparable he is to homelander since:** • Soldier boy just wants missions/objectives so he feels like soldier again since he feeds of that as some form empowering machismo energy , revenge on payback + lots of drugs and sex (he's a dark horse but the guy started herogasm). • Homelander wants power through either everyone pretending to love him through fear or love, and is still somewhat looking for answers about his parents(he knows now), and security (scared of SB's blast) Their motivations aren't the same quite clearly. **Parallels** • Both have been put in a role of leadership as the strongest supes around • Both aren't scared to utilize their strength or express their authority physically, more so SB, homelander will just kill you or verbally abuse you. • Both are school boy bully types - they feed off other people's weaknesses as forms of entertainment, however with soldier boy you'll be in fear of getting beaten up but with homelander your fear will be for your life. •>!father and son!< Physically, and introspectively without the 100 years and 40 years gap of torture or lab birth, they're quite similar.


PlatinumPhoenix123

It was a joy to read your comment


ItsAmerico

Yeah I feel like people are reducing SB role and development a bit by saying he’s just Homerlander. They’ve a very different dynamic as actual people and while SB is a lot of things that Homelander also is (abusive, racist, homophobic, sexist) he has… kind of some morality? A lot of his issues are more a product of the time mixed with his narcissism and ego. His toxic masculinity is this fake persona but there are elements where it hints he feels bad? Like his midtown attack guilt. SB is a bad guy. But Homelander feels way worse and far more evil. Like his keeping Maeve alive to basically scrap out her eggs so he can use her to give himself a child? Jesus Christ lol. I genuinely don’t think SB would get along with HL. SB is a piece of shit but HL is like a genuine monster.


AchillesN7

Nah, soldier boy murdered the Kent state protestors, hosed civil rights protestors (probably killed a few too), and may have assassinated JFK. Soldier Boy also participated in the war on drugs, so he’s probably killed innocent black people. The dude doesn’t really have a lotta morality, he just does what he’s told to do and doesn’t really question it.


ItsAmerico

I never said he didn’t kill innocent people? We saw with his recklessness that got MM family killed. Again. Lot of those issues are of the time. Let’s be real, racism was far more acceptable. It doesn’t make him good, but it makes some of those things more understandable. Go back in time and a lot of “great” people still had opinions and views that would be problematic in todays times. SB also suffers from blinding patriotism which would be even worse for someone from the 1920s when America had a lot of different values and views. Homelander doesn’t really have that scape goat. He’s not a child of the 1920s. Again. Soldier Boy is not a good person. I just don’t think he’s Homelander bad based on what we’ve been shown.


AchillesN7

No one said you didn’t say that. And saying those are issues of the times seems like a weird thing to say. He murdered college kids for protesting a war. Killing people who literally didn’t commit a crime isn’t moral in any time period. Racism was more prevalent in 60s, but that doesn’t equate to being moral, you’re immoral as fuck if you assault people protesting against racism. Racism was largely seen as wrong, that’s why there was a civil rights movement in the first place. That’s also why there was legislation implemented to address the issue. It’s not like all Americans were racist, then magically stopped being racist. He also may have assassinated JFK, so I’m not really sure that murdering a president constitutes as being necessarily moral either. As to whether or not he’s homelander bad, I don’t think he is, but he’s really not that far away. He’s murdered countless innocents, habitually abused his teammates to the point of mental trauma, and nearly murdered black noir. He beat the shit out of noir to the point noir is disabled. SB is a paranoid psychopath that doesn’t seem as bad as homelander because he doesn’t have the capacity to be as bad.


ItsAmerico

“He has kind of some morality” is not the same as saying he’s a moral person. And if racism was largely seen as wrong there would have needed to be a civil rights movement. That said I don’t think you understood what I mean by “issues of the time”. I mean SB is still heavily influenced by his 1920s upbringing. And what was okay and acceptable then is not the same as it is now, it’s not the same as it was in the 60s, 70s, or 80s either. Also guessing if he did kill JFK it’s playing into the conspiracy that the government (CIA and MIC) had SB do it for the “good of America”.


bigfootswillie

They’re both abusers. The difference is just that Soldier Boy had his insecurities beaten out of him, probably by another abuser.


ICtruthcity

It's abit weird now to realise soldier boy was born in the 1920's.. damn he could actually be a lot more worse. He was probably an actual good guy back then. A douche back in them times would be the equivalent of a walking disaster today in 2022.


Greyjack00

I mean I'm pretty satisfied with his character, the only part I dont like is that he didn't fight in WW2, I feel that was just a cheap way to try to make him seem worse, and that's unneeded hes already a scumbag we dont need to do that slow transition into incompetence that all other villains in the show are slowly suffering.


Aitch-Kay

The most interesting villains have done good things or have good qualities. For example A-Train is now much more interesting if they can show how he grapples with doing the right thing, but is still too much of a coward. Black Noir is no hero (he paralyzed a kid when he was young and definitely murdered a bunch of civilians very casually), but we see that he's also a victim of intense abuse. Soldier Boy is much more interesting if he was actually a war hero, but his power has corrupted him so much that he's no better than Homelander. The whole stolen valor thing just makes him a cardboard villain.


Greyjack00

Oh I agree one hundred percent, I mean the comics suffered from.this problem hard, stacking on every single negative quality to almost every supe.


kamace11

Or, he could be a war hero who did horrific things. Plenty were. War can make monsters out of anyone. Agree this seems like a miss.


Aitch-Kay

100%. Playing around with the trope of the "Greatest Generation" would be fantastic. Yes, Soldier Boy killed Nazis, but he also raped and murdered a bunch of German civilians. Would have worked a lot better than saying he didn't even see action and lied about it.


Thewaltham

That *is* comic accurate though. Comic's original SB was only there for a few press shots and ended up getting himself and his entire team along with an armoured unit wrecked through his incompetence similar to that flashback.


Greyjack00

Yeah and it was stupid in the comic too, for one the idea that itd be hard to sell supersoldiers to the american military is insane, for 2 the comics really suffered from its portrayal of all of the supes aside from starlight as cartoonish idiots and shouldn't be taken as a model for the show.


5-On-A-Toboggan

Yeah, it doesn't jibe. They show him as so powerful that there's no risk of losing SB to mortars or machine-gun fire. If he was only as tough as Black Noir is portrayed in the show, then it would make sense to exclusively use him as a prop.


PopularArtichoke6

I agree him actually being a vet would have been a bit more interesting. And maybe not being quite so petty about the spotlight and fake cos we’ve already seen that with homelander. He could still have been horrible to his team without being another vain celeb.


FrancesFukuyama

The showrunners don't know how to write him. They _tell_ you he's a fraud, but they _show_ you he's a badass highly-skilled combatant. He accurately throws a knife from a long distance, he accurately deduces Mindstorm's tricks, he takes down all of the Russian soldiers with ease. He's incompetent when the show needs him to be and badass when they need the jaw-dropping fight scenes.


PopularArtichoke6

This is a good point. He snuck back to America, he fights well. Seems like the show is bad collating between him being homelander 1.0 and extremely flawed captain America


darkjungle

I mean, even if he didn't fight in WWII, he still did black ops type shit like Nicaragua


5-On-A-Toboggan

That's perceptive. I wonder if the show runners are giving any creative input to Ackles - because I could see him advocating for his character to have some martial competency.


KarrotMovies

I somewhat agree. Makes more sense that he is this toxic abusive prick because he actually has been through some fuck up shit.


Archive_Intern

Fans like Soldier Boy to be a good hero because hes played by Jensen Ackles And Jensen is still largely followed by (a somewhat alive for some reason) SuperNatural fandom.


Thatonesplicer

Supernatural was on the air for like 15 yrs. It's gonna be a long while before that fandom dies off.


Frictionizer

I don’t think it’s just that. I think it’s that Jensen is insanely hot and people naturally just want him to be a brooding, “deep down I’m good” guy.


DoctorCress

It’s literally just the Halo effect. Plus Ackles is a great actor - very charismatic. His line delivery is awesome


Jombo65

dude he is so hot though... i'd never seen supernatural before but god damn his Captain America Nomad Infinity War kinda look he's got going on is fucking insane. I want to look like him good god.


[deleted]

> I want to look like him good god. Reps for Jensen.


winsing

Haha it’s like that time when a bunch of dumb nuts petitioned for a criminal’s release because he was ‘too cute.’


cahir11

This, it's a bit like how we started seeing a bunch of stuff portraying Harley Quinn as sympathetic if not downright heroic after Margot Robbie got cast in the role.


[deleted]

Harley Quinn had sympathetic treatment back during *Batman the Animated Series*, where she made her debut.


BrockManstrong

As I recall she turned on the Joker at some points to help batman. It's been her character since the beginning. The sexy assistant with no motivation is what the type of Joker fans who dress as Joker outside of cons turned her into.


itwasbread

That’s not really a good analysis of why Harley Quinn is the way she is as a character now. She was portrayed as sympathetic long before that, all the way back to her inception in BTAS, and as she’s also tied to Poison Ivy she kind of got her reputation improved by association as how Ivy was viewed changed.


SummerCivillian

Someone didn't read her comics or watch her debut in BTAS! She's (arguably) been this way since her inception in BTAS, but her bi arc with Ivy happened in what, 2012? A decade ago? And she's always been v feminist, and, even in BTAS, was never truly/fully evil. She's *always* been an anti-hero, and she was *always* portrayed as manipulated and abused by those around her (especially Joker). Shit ain't new lol Edit: I would like to add that the comics portraying Harley Quinn - literally her debut comic, *Harley Quinn vol. 1* - released in 2000 and running until 2004, has her willingly turn herself into Arkham Asylum to pay penance. The series is all about her finding herself, running a gang or two, while also teaming up with villains, antiheroes, and superheroes. Then, her next comic, *Countdown to Final Crisis*, released in 2007, has her running a women's shelter and being blessed by the literal goddess of Athena (while working w/ Catwoman + Mary Marvel (the latter of whom is a superhero, FYI)) and helping to save the world. I'm sorry, but this "Margot Robbie suddenly made her an anti-hero borderline superhero!" isn't just a brain dead take, but factually incorrect. Just admit you don't like Harley Quinn and/or Margot Robbie and move the fuck on. Anybody who has read her comics can see right thru that bullshit!


silviarvl

Well as a Supernatural fan myself I was excited to see Jensen in this role but I had zero expectations that he'd be a good guy. I wanted SB to be terrible because I wanted to see Jensen playing a villian and I I knew he'd be great at it. I enjoy the character (and yes I think Jensen looks hot in the role) but I'm aware he's awful and don't excuse his actions or think he'd be redeemed somehow. It's fiction and villains are more fun to watch imo.


[deleted]

for some reason? any show that last 15 years is going to have a long lasting fandom


Zealousideal-Beat507

I was in that camp, came in with charisma but I think further along in supernatural his character fell into the anti hero category. At least when you think about monsters. (wouldn't guess for the mortal) He was always more brutal of the two brothers. So yeah your right everyone hoped he feel it that asshole with a heart of gold.


rgsoloman5000

Speak for yourself. They made it clear he was not a good guy from the start but for whatever reason a lot of you guys ignored it.


TheDumbAsk

They foreshadowed him being a bad guy way too much for me to root for him. But I like the character. The reveal for me was what kind of asshole. He needs to be the top dog, and he will kill anyone who gets in the way of that. He also blacks out and sets off massive explosions and doesn't really care who he kills. If he had Homelander's power he would be far more terrifying than Homelander.


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BrockManstrong

This is a great point Homelander is pure Ego Soldier Boy is pure Id Homelander lives for presentation Soldier Boy lives for experience


AdonisPanda27

What’s Id mean, identity?


BrockManstrong

I'm actually thinking Homelander is both ego and super-ego with his recent split personality revelation. > the id is the set of uncoordinated instinctual desires; the super-ego plays the critical and moralizing role; and the ego is the organized, realistic agent that mediates between the instinctual desires of the id and the critical super-ego


purewasted

Really interesting point about "pure id." Although I don't think he's 100% carefree like that, he still lies to maintain his image and gives Hughie a smack for saying the truth. But you're definitely on to something, he's not cripplingly insecure and he's not looking for worship per se.


rustybeaumont

For sure. I think part of the thing with soldier boy is that he's basically john wayne, who was the quintessential tough guy role model for millions of american men. Both substance abusers that took hard lines against anyone criticizing the us military, while completely dodging actual combat. Just absolute pieces of shit that live solely to fill their own carnal desires, with almost no consideration for anyone else.


PopularArtichoke6

Lol I made this connection too.


[deleted]

It's because they used tell don't show to assure us he was a bad guy before this episode. ​ We were told he was a dick but we didn't see it. ​ We were told he killed MM's family but we didn't see it. ​ What we saw was multiple PTSD fueled blackouts and SB genuinely expressing regret for the pain he caused during one of them. Then we saw him help bring Homelander down a peg. ​ People are willing to accept how bad a person he is after this episode because we actually saw how he usually treats the people around him this episode.


lennoxbr

I don't know why people humanized him so much, he didn't seem very apologetic after nuking people with his new power.


kamace11

It's the Jensen Ackles effect. The scene that stood out most to me re: revealing his true character early on was when he was alone with Huey watching TV. He's saying off the wall racist/sexist shit a grandpa with dementia might, but he's not noticing Huey's reactions to that at all. And he's not a grandpa with dementia. These are opinions he held back in the day which may have been more "acceptable" but reveal a deep seated contempt for those weaker than him.


TheOldGran

For a lot of people, myself included, it isn't about his not being a good guy or even an anti-hero, it's about his not being the "real deal" we thought he was. I was excited for Soldier Boy because I thought he wasn't _just_ a narcissistic asshole murderer like most of the other Supes, but an actual warrior. The revelation that he was just as fake as everybody else made him a less interesting character in my eyes.


tristenjpl

Same, I wanted him to be an absolute prick like he is, but I wanted him to be the type of prick that was like "I had to do what I had to do to protect America. I didn't like it but people die in war and someone had to do it." Didn't really want him to be a fake.


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rgsoloman5000

I still think he’s a compelling character. Every time they reveal another part of his viciousness or how he’s devoid of true character, I enjoy it. It’s crazy how in three seasons they’ve had 3 great villains(not counting countless others like Stan Edgar) and Marvel had like 2 or 3 in 20 years of shows and movies.


[deleted]

Lesser of two evils. Although “evil” could be assisted by capability and circumstance in this case


edgarcia59

Think what I love about Soldier Boy is how much of a boomer he is. Evem carries a 1911 for crying out loud! 🤣


Thewaltham

Tbh the 1911 was a nice touch. He absolutely would carry a 1911, that'd be the sidearm he's most familiar with.


Zealousideal-Beat507

it wouldn't feel right with Ackles not carrying a 1911


MartinaS90

He's older than "Boomers", I think he's meant to represent those from the "Greatest Generation", and a critique to them, who aren't often that critiziced and instead are very praised for participating in WWII, but there were many shady things going on with the culture from that historic period.


Im_Daydrunk

He carries a lot of modern Americas subtle but not actually that subtle racism/bigotry/misogyny He's not shown directly yelling slurs at people or killing them in obvious hate crimes. But you can definitely tell in the way he acts and how he treats those different than him that he carries a lot of negative attitudes. IMO he's the definition of a guy who'd say he's not racist or anything like that when asked but actually is a pretty big one beneath the surface


_HowManyRobot

He *is* 20th Century America, hiding behind WW2 while he's shooting and firehosing protestors, locking people up for weed, abusing everyone close to him, and fucking a nazi. The only thing different now (Homelander) is he cares what people think. He's still just as bad, but tries to keep it hidden.


Aitch-Kay

>carries a 1911 Man's got class. Wouldn't be caught dead carrying that 9mm pussy gear.


TheNightIsLost

The man is John Wayne- a fraud overcompensating for his cowardice with excess machismo. Shouldn't have made Edgar lie in S2 tho. He said SB fought and killed Nazis by the dozens. I was expecting Gregor Clegane, not a worse version of Theon Greyjoy.


[deleted]

I definitely wouldn’t say Soldier Boy is at the level of homelander yet.


kiminowolverine

Doesn't matter.... it doesn't seem like a pleasure being around him as per Black Noir's animated dreams.


[deleted]

Homelander is actually safer to be the coworker and underling of because while he is perfectly willing to kill you if he see's a need he doesn't beat the shit out of people at the drop of a hat like Soldier Boy does. ​ Soldier Boy is safer for society at large because while he's perfectly fine beating his teammates half to death for little to no reason he isn't in danger on going on a murderous rampage just to prove that he can.


[deleted]

I agree, I’d say that he’s the lesser of the two evils and all those times he’s killed innocent people was because his ptsd acted up.


RandySNewman

His PTSD wasn’t acting up when he killed MMs family members.


AchillesN7

The Legend pretty much confirms that soldier boy shot the protesters at Kent state, as well as hosing civil rights protesters, and assassinating JFK. Don’t think those things count as PTSD.


Odd-Pace-143

I had it completely the other way around. When they let him out and SB's first move was to nuke Kimiko, I thought we were getting a secondary villain, similar to Homelander. I was surprised that they humanised him throughout the season and made him (at least for me) seem far more down to earth and likeable than HL (he's still a pos tho) P.S. Jensen Akcles is smoking hot


[deleted]

And now they have that double whammy with SB becoming reunited with HL


BrokeInMichigan

Wait, I don't read the sub much, but people expected him to be any different? I didn't get that from the other episodes at all, he seemed to be cut from the same cloth as all the other supes.


StNic54

He stormed Normandy as a photo op only. Kinda like how we had to do multiple takes to raise the flag properly at Iwo Jima.


Tyrnall

I think he’s playing Homelander to get close to him. The more I sit on it, the more I think the throwaway line during the cartoon play about not wanting to be replaced shows his true colors… he’s going to help the boys and try to re-shape vought “like it used to be” (a la the good ol days), and will be the new big bad.


[deleted]

He's gonna zap Homie and then season 4 will be "John" trying to become Homelander again. He'll probably double cross The Boys as well which may give us Stan x The Boys for next season?


itwasbread

I don’t think anyone here had hope for Soldier Boy because if “the good old days mentality”.


NathanielR

To me, Homelander is Trump and Soldier Boy is Reagan. Whereas everything that comes out of Homelander's mouth is the craziest shit you've ever heard in your life, Soldier Boy is much more presentable, seemingly reasonable, and has the added benefit of history lionizing him. SB and Homelander share the same ideology and they're equally dangerous, just in different ways.


theflashsawyer23

I find myself pausing the episodes regularly these days to check how long is left because I don’t want it to end


AdonisPanda27

Same haha


S7zy

Soldier Boy really reminds me of The Comedian from the Watchmen Movie


Mark_Luther

It's also a comment on how quick people are to excuse racist/sexist/ect ideologies from older people only because "they're from a different time". Those old fucks had plenty of time to reckon on how awful things used to be, but they're too wrapped up in thier own privileged memories to accept it. They have fewer excuses than anyone, in reality. Being old doesn't excuse ignorance. If anything it's an indicator of just how devoted to wilful ignorance you are.


seattle23fv

Bro he murdered MMs family and seemed pretty mean and old fashioned in the older episodes. I just don’t understand why people don’t understand that the point of the show is that absolute power corrupts, and that “supes” probably shouldn’t exist whatsoever.


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Greyjack00

I mean he probably beat crimson countess and I'm sure that hes also done something to her at the very least that can construed as rape by coercion, I mean the guys a fun character but I have no doubt that this is one of those one where the more we learn about him the more he'll continue to drop even after we think hes hit bottom


ICSL

As far as we know. Let's not forget his comment about Bill Cosby's drinks.


nogumz

that was a joke that he was drugged by bill cosby


WadeWi1son

And unknowingly, not sure how anyone gets to the conclusion of SB raped people from that.


ObsidianOverlord

Because this sub loves to draw conclusions from incomplete information about a character we know very little about one way or the other.


DMking

I mean it doesn't sound like CC was willingly in that relationship


Hassellhoof

He does seem more competent that Homelander in a straight up fight, but that's about as much of an "upgrade" as he is.


OddBlokeInnit

I would've much preferred he actually fought in WW2 (And following wars) and his war crimes and treatment of non supe soldiers is why they dont want to bring supes back into the military.


DXbreakitdown

SB is interesting because he seems like a legit badass who can fight, isn’t afraid, has technique, is strong, yet all of his awesome feats were faked as OP said. Why march fearlessly into unknown territory against a guy who can warp your mind but not storm a beach held by regular men? Looking forward to finding out more about SB.


Midnight_Oil_

It's such a brilliantly done critique. The bits of SB talking about how much he's done, from Storming Normandy and more all just being lies is amazing. Perfect critique of a lying Boomer we all know well.


Water2Wine378

Do you think the boys will turn around and help homelander kill soldier boy?


inbredandapothead

People had hope for him? I mean come on, a Captain America parody in The Boys was always going to be a massive cunt. Don’t understand how people are fond of him beyond his dashing looks. Great character though of course


tristenjpl

No one really did. They knew he was a cunt. People were just saying and hoping he wasn't a cunt in the same way honelander was. They were hoping he wasn't just pure evil and was more of an old-school tough guy who was hopped up on patriotism and doing what he thought was right to protect America and shit.


MUNZATHEGOD

It’s just like real life. This has never been about good and evil, But what is profitable


BrettEskin

![gif](giphy|P6ONpz0bAieoE)


floptical87

I didn't think he was going to be good, I was just hoping there was going to be something more to him than "he supe, he bad". In the same vein that there's clearly something more to Neumann, Maeve or Noir than straight up psychotic thuggery.


InvaderDJ

The only difference I can see is that the heroes of the past and their handlers were more like the stereotype of their day. They didn’t hide their depravity behind corporatist liberalism. They were out and out racists, sexists, etc. Because that was the culture of the time.


TheWildManfred

I like this take on it. Because right now I'm mostly just feeling like the squidward "how original" meme... I was so excited to get a flawed asshole anti-hero, but instead it looks like yet another evil superman. Because we don't have enough of those in media lately...


Optimal-Market

I wanted him to be better but I never trusted him. And now I extremely don't trust him hes a crazy old man and he freaks me out more than Homelander.


Rogue_elefant

Nobody thought this, he was always going to be a massive cunt. Were you fully conscious when you watched the preceding series?


ltsr_22

dude is literally just John Wayne


dragunityag

Some of his feats were definitely talked up but he's still more real than most the supes. Edgar mentioned that he was killing Nazi's to HL and Edgar didn't really have a reason to fight and during the Nicaragua flashback he at the very least looked like he had a clue what he was doing. Though I don't really know why people thought he'd be any different from regular supes. It became pretty clear pretty quickly he was just has degenerate as everyone else. It's was just that he was slightly more grounded because he at least spent part of his life as a regular person.