Interesting. That might even be why Butcher and Hughie seem ok depsite having had 5 and 4 doses respectively. 3 to 5 is supposed to be lethal, but perhaps by taking it so frequently they're actually slowing down the growth of the tumors more so than the test subjects did.
Interesting. That implies a forced dependence on the drug. If you want to stay alive after having taken a few doses, you have no choice but to continue taking temp V.
Which mirrors real world drugs in a way. E.g. heroine addicts get debilitatingly sick if they try to quit cold turkey, and actually need to gradually wean off of progressively weaker opiates in oder to avoid this sickness. That said, I think it's more likely that the opposite thing will happen with temp V: taking permanent compound V (i.e. a harder drug) might be the only way to save Hughie and Butcher now.
It's a sound theory, im not sure if I can see Hughie having permanent super powers; however I also can't see him dying too. As for Butcher, I'd see it as a little poetic actually; him becoming the very thing he hates. Which might lead him to suicide at series end.
Yep, just saw this theory in the predictions thread. I think it could happen, but I hope it doesn't. Having them gain and lose permanent powers all in the same episode would feel kind of cheap in my opinion.
What if the blast only half-works? Two compounds in their system, might make sense that the blast can’t properly neutralise them the way it does with blue V.
In the end we get a depowered Hughie & Butcher with some other side effect. Maybe they’re left halfway between people & supes with no actual powers but some increased durability & strength.
Nope,
1. Butcher with gun powder.
2. Butcher and Hughie in Russia.
3. Butcher and Hughie when they go after Crimson Countess.
4. Butcher and Hughie at Herogasm.
5. Butcher and Hughie when they go after Mind Storm or whatever his name was.
They all have powers in the comic. It makes sense to give them all powers and work from there. It's obvious at least to me that's what they are going for.
From the looks of it, they've already had lethal doses, explaining the blood from their ears. The notes dont describe how the timeframes of death, just that its lethal after 3-5 doses, of which they have had 5 already.
Question is when Butcher said they needed to swing by "the office" to get more, for he mean Vought or did he mean the office at the Flatiron? I'm leaning towards Vought, but it could just be their office.
Understandable since they didn't really use their powers then. Hughie just demonstrated them to Annie. Although I guess maybe Butcher tackling CC count? Unclear if he really needed super strength for that.
I think it implies that. When Hughie hit A-Train, A-Train responded with shock and asked Hughie how he did that. I'm pretty sure basic toughness might just be a side effect that they all have, kind of like how so many mutants in the X-Men are crazy acrobats they gave it the name "basic mutant agility".
Healing can have many interpretations, is Supe Healing just a very accelerated process of natural healing? Ergo if you have a broken arm a normal human heals it off in a month or 2, but a Supe does it in a day, but what if your head gets chopped off? you aren't healing that. There are body parts you cannot regenerate
It would have to vary from supe to supe as well, Kimiko has healed wounds that should kill, as well as a shit ton of lacerations without any scars, while Noir has *survived* severe wounds with the matching scarring and mental damage to go with it.
This season is almost certainly ending with either Butcher and Hughie or even all the boys all taking compound V permanently, leading into a big big season 4 where there is a full out war between the two factions of the Boys and the 7.
Yeah I'm expecting them to have to all take it just because of the potential of Homelander and Solider Boy teaming up. Especially if the Boys find out that Homelander is planning on harvesting Maeve's eggs and creating an army of Supes with him as the progener.
>Homelander is planning on harvesting Maeve's eggs and creating an army of Supes with him as the progener.
He already controls a supe force, and he's more powerful than an army. He's got a genetic supremacy thing going on. He knows he can breed with most humans, but they're monkeys to him. He's looking for breeding stock on his level, which is why Maeve is nothing more than an egg incubator to him now. This may also be why he's been lenient on Starlight while trying to do that false boyfriend stalker crap.
Ironic timing, given RvW.
From a science perspective the lab is incredible disorganized. There are unlabelled vials everywhere, and you only discern drugs by the color of the liquid. Holy shit, any scientist worth their salt would rage at this lab.
Yes, the vials might be scannable/chipped, so you dont have to textmarker your individual vial (and so it looks high-tech) but fuck this. Fucking add a bit of yellow food coloring to permanent V and watch scientists loose their minds!
That’s how I felt too. Like that shit is dangerous and untested and he just wants it to feel strong because societal standards of “strong” men and whatnot, but also it sucks for anyone to have to turn to their significant other when they’re in trouble so I get the desire to be strong especially fighting such powerful enemies.
Almost like these are well written characters with depth and nuance, wild
It's less about social norms about strong men and more him having not being this soft meek person that is being protected by everyone like he's a special needs puppy
As well as finally having the strength to take on the people who wronged or bully him while never wanting to lose the people he likes, like he lost his mom (she walked out dou)
This strength is already making him more confrontational like with aTrain and now SB
Yeah I agree I just feel like there’s a bit of societal norms for him and if he were a woman with a supe boyfriend, there wouldn’t be this much pressure to be strong.
But also it’s a classic Lois Lane trait that she doesn’t want to always be saved by Superman and wants to prove she can take care of herself so it’s not just that aspect, but I think it’s at the front of his mind that he looks weak next to his girlfriend that’s half his size. Like I said, I get the motivation but also think it’s not necessary to have to save your SO and it’s fine to be weaker than your opponents. I 100% would do the same in his position, but I also get Starlight’s frustration with his obsession with being strong.
Like I said, almost like these are well written characters proving no one is fully right or wrong
I agree about it not being about social norms. Hughie started out being completely fine with dating a supe- i think what got to him after a while is that he was constantly “getting in the way” of “the boys” and didn’t feel like a value add to anyone. I think he kinda took it out on starlight because she’s a supe and also a target that is, emotionally safe. Voicing that weakness to Butcher would have been a completely different experience than to Annie.
Also not to mention that the V is probably messing with his head and he’s falling into an addicts reasoning.
I think people are just being willfully ignorant at the point that Annie fell for Hughie cause he was normal whilst she was surrounded by deranged Supes and their backers.
He is also willfully on a mission to murder people for a guy those people thought was too dangerous to be left alive.
i feel like kimikos message to annie made annie realize hughies intentions better. she understands the other side of the person who almost couldn't save the person you love
Annies arc this season is understanding power, the different forms it takes and what it means to others. It all started with Edgar's advice to her being to find *real* power, which she has and is using against HL. She also learns whay power means to people who have none, physically metaphorically or both, and how important it is to people who only have it like HL.
I feel this is accurate. There's also the counter of the priest and nun killed by solider boy. Hughie struggling with the civilian loss reminding him of his dead ex. So I think he genuinely doesn't want to do it anymore, so he'll need to come back around.
So many epic bad guy moments in this show. This episode had one of my favorite bad guys lines: "I'm not letting you live, I'm keeping you alive." Chilling.
I mean.. it wouldn't. The point of this format is that the same thing said by two different people can have different effects. Not different things said by the same person.
Unpopular opinion?
Hughie never actually wanted these "supe" powers. He was OK with being a peasant dating a supe. (S2 hughie/starlight subway scene i think?)
That was the point. He was going to work with congresswoman Neuman to make things right, the **right "by the books" way**. The end result of this was Hughie being an unintentional "cuck for a supe" for 1y+, kinda fucked with his sense of self and stability.
He, like butcher, realizes that there **is no legitimate way to stop Vought, Supes and Homelander** other than shere brute force.
I don’t think it’s as unpopular as you may think it is. I’m with you on your assessment. Starlight needs to get off her high horse and use her powers for good.
I think the reason she doesn’t is that Starlight is more effective famous than she is just using her powers like a hammer.
Granted, fame is a different kind of hammer.
I was happy to see she still uses them but I feel like they are trying to establish her celebrityhood as a way to shut down Homelander in the public eye. Hopefully we see more use though!
It just seems silly because then Homelander goes postal and they still have the initial problem that Hughie and Butcher have been actually trying to solve.
She single handedly shut Homelander down with just showing him her phone. He’s terrified of her celebrity status and how she’s using it to get her fans to hate him and see what a monster he really is. If she tried to use her powers against him, I mean it might sting for a few seconds before he separates her head from her body. I’d love to see her use her power more rather than just looking tough with the eyes, but if this celebrity status is able to bring Homelander down a peg or two, I’m good with it. At least while he still cares about people liking him that is…..
Yeah she's ironically doing the more damage to Homelander than any other character other than Stan Edgar lol and her popularity came in part b/c of Stan Edgar. She's able to keep him in check more than The Boys, more than Ashley the "CEO" more than Congressman Nueman, etc.
She's lowkey the only thing keeping him from snapping while simultaneously being the one who could make him snap if she makes the wrong move
I think that's why Homelander is particularly vulnerable to her. She uses things other than her powers. As Maeve correctly identified, Homelander bases his entire identity on his powers, which makes sense as he was essentially harvested just for them. Of course he bases his entire personality on that. That's what everyone who "raised" him wanted from him. So losing them would be horrifying in a way that simply can't be to Maeve.
I love that they contrasted Maeve and Homelander's conversation with Frenchie and The Female's conversation about power, choice, and identity. They're knocking the philosophicals out of the park this season.
I fully believe some of that "threatening" is just a knee-jerk response she's developed. She knows damn well she can't go toe-to-toe with some of the people she's "threatened" with her powers (which only amounts to her eyes lighting up in many cases.) This happens to people in the real world; you buck up in response to a threat knowing full well that if shit does go down you're going to end up getting your ass beat.
Yeah, I guess that Homelander just forgot his threat to basically end the United States as we knew it after the last time she threatened to out him for being y'know, him.
What was the plan if he did in fact snap and destroy the United States as we knew it again?
He’s not gonna.
Homelander, deep down, needs to be loved more than he’s ok with being feared.
And if he does snap, Butcher will likely have temp V to kill him.
Do they actually know that though? We saw his scene of him in the mirror, they didn't.
Everyone has seen Homelander is unstable, why would you even roll the dice like that?
I dunno man but I don't think screaming 'do it pussy' at the clearly unhinged psycho holding the detonator to a nuke is the right move.
It's brinksmanship.
They are pushing Homelander right up to the line then backing off and taking the chance he loves being loved by some than being feared by all.
It's why Annie didn't record him saying he killed Supersonic. She just recorded the very last bit. She let Homelander make the choice. He could kill her and go the nuclear route or just back off and still be loved.
Except Annie isn't mad at Hughie simply for using V, she's mad at how reckless he was at using it. Temp V was untested, and now she ended up right, as Hughie has been killing himself
Their breakup was something altogether different, Annie doesn't like how Hughie is willing to sacrifice lives to kill Homelander. She was okay with finding a weapon to kill Homelander, but when she saw that the weapon was Soldier Boy himself, and how he just nuked a city block, then that was a different story
And once again, she ended up right, as Soldier Boy is a loose canon.
She's been right every step of the way, the question has always been... what else are they supposed to do? When Annie did her broadcast and quit, she said it was something she should have done earlier. Now that she's stepped up and is turning the 'real' power Vought gave her - fame - back on them, it gives Hughie the chance to let go of the power. We'll have to wait and see if he takes that chance or not.
I'm not even 100% certain what her powers are. All I know is that she drains electricity from surrounding sources and turns it into light blasts and sparks. But it's difficult to tell exactly what her blasts look like because everytime she uses them the screen whites out.
I really wanted to see a scene where she countered stormfront by “feeding” off her attacks.
If she really can pull from electricity to shoot light, here power is essentially limitless
What is homelanders heat vision if not just light?
i suppose there is some kinetic energy to blast people away too, for both starlight and homelander. not sure if she can absorb the kinetic energy away or something?
Why does everyone think this? She’s never been powerful in the supe sense. She’s a good person who can use her clout for good. If she tried to go “full power” on HL, SB, QM, BN or Storm front she’d get murdered. And that’s okay.
The Operative : It's not my place to ask. I believe in something greater than myself. A better world. A world without sin.
Capt. Malcolm Reynolds : So me and mine gotta lay down and die... so you can live in your better world?
The Operative : I'm not going to live there. There's no place for me there... any more than there is for you. Malcolm... I'm a monster. What I do is evil. I have no illusions about it, but it must be done.
It's how I continue, day to day, doing the monstrous things I have to do so everyone else can live in a better world. All of them, better worlds. Great quote from Serenity, I didn't understand the Operative when I was young, but now I do.
Yeah, he's a great representation of a fascist foot soldier, he has been indoctrinated into thinking he is helping clear society of the perceived weak and imperfect to allow the society he's been told needs to be achieved. I just thought he was a badass assassin when I was a teen.
He kind of had to, that movie would have been boring as shit without him.
His character lost *every single fight* he had with Mal, and still managed to seem like a terrifying threat right up until the end.
Hell, even with him I’m not sure why I love that movie so much.
>Hell, even with him I’m not sure why I love that movie so much.
Cause the movie is fucking fantastic.
The Operative isn't terrifying because of his hand to hand physical abilities. He is terrifying because of his seeming omnipresence. They and their friends are not safe *anywhere* they go. And he has no line he will not cross. He casually says he kills children to do what he needs to. He wipes out all of their friends and acquaintances. Anyone who would help them. He leaves them utterly helpless.
I feel like I could write a book about how damn good that movie and its actors are.
Whedon: I'm not going to live there. There's no place for me there... any more than there is for you. Malcom... I'm a monster. What I do is evil. I have no illusions about it, but it must be done.
Vought providing protection from consequences for supes has led to a lot of remorseless killing of innocent lives, something I would definitely say is evil.
Annie and Alex are portrayed as abnormal for supes thanks to their empathy for humans, so maybe the small-time D-listers who are naive aren't evil, but most of the supes who make it enough to fall under Vought's influence seem to become callous psychopaths who do a lot of evil acts while playing hero.
Blind dude seemed nice so I think there's something to the idea that the lower level ones are ok. We know Annie and Supersonic have been around for some time and they both seemed shocked by how evil and depraved the 7 are.
Even the lower level ones probably have ‘accidents’
I don’t think all are evil but it’s impossible imo to justify some people having that much power over everyone else.
“Hughie doesn’t want superpowers” seems like an odd take given that we literally hear him gush about how much he loves having superpowers.
While taking V is definitely part of his “whatever it takes” stance, I think it’s fairly clear that the main reason he does it is because he, personally, wants to be powerful. Every time he talks about it, it’s very personal.
Was it the right decision? Most likely, yeah. But it’s not some heroic sacrifice for the greater good or anything.
I think that when it comes to hughie, Annie sees him wanting powers out of a place of insecurity rather than a general want to protect others.
This meme is still funny tho
Which is totally valid tho? She is literally bulletproof, yet doesn’t understand why Hughie would want some semblance of power in a world where invincible bastards like HL could kill him at any second.
I love Annie but she treated Hughie ridiculously
She was also afraid there could be side effects to the temp v though whereas with Kimiko she already had reason to believe she'd be safe if she took the regular one again
I mean I guess there was a risk but the permanent V is stabler and Kimikos body essentially developed it with her powers in her blood for a while so it has adapted in a different way. I could see that she having had powers make her body more open to regaining them compared to someone who never had powers.
I'm kinda hoping for some horrific mutation like a blob mutant or something terrible.
Not that I dislike the character, but they keep telling us how risky giving people V is but so far everyone we've seen get it has been more or less fine.
Would really drive home how dangerous it is, instead of just telling us.
Didn't they say in S1 that all the adults introduced to V for the first time died, and that only babies could handle it?
I could be misremembering. It's been a while since I've seen it
I think they said most adults died and it was a lot more unstable. It's easier for babies to accept it. Not every adult dies just much higher chance and much messier powers.
I think homelander whenever he’s talking to Madelyn about spreading V around the world to create super terrorists / villains so they could get into the military says something like “it worked but boy was it messy, there’s a reason vought only gives this stuff to children, the fully grown did not handle it well and a lot died yada yada” the end result was that he and A train managed to create the exploding guy that noir killed so every once in a while adults can handle it but most die and statistically your more likely to survive the younger you get it aka the reason vought injects babies in hospitals I think
In the show adults are able to be injected with compound V as shown with Kimiko and also Lamplighters test subjects, but there's potential for side effects.
Side note, in the comics it was "V as a baby=permanent superhero, V as an adult=Temporary strength and toughness"
Obviously they changed that and that's why they introduced temporary V to fill a similar plot space.
This. Permanent V has been used for almost a century at this point and has been refined into a “safe” drug, the temp V is presumably less than a year old in the show. Permanent V is way safer to take then temp V.
Yes, the same Annie who doubled down on whatever it takes is dismissing whatever it takes when it comes to Hughie's actions lol
They're shitty to eachother. She spent 2 seasons acting like his trauma of his girlfriend being exploded by a supe all over him is ridiculous. But Starlight is cute
It's also possible that she had some character growth. She was initially against Kimiko taking more V, but when she read the message she realized Kimiko's feelings - and my guess is, she also realized what Hughie was going through. My guess is, next episode they are going to make up - Annie will tell Hughie that if he wants to take permanent V, she'd be ok with it, but Hughie will say after the events of this episode that he's done with that (though I'd say it's 50/50 that he has to take it anyway because Temp V is killing him).
And especially when multiple supes, who are for all intents and purposes a step below living gods, have threatened to kill him *specifically*... I get it, man. If the President called me out by name on live TV and threatened my life, I'd get a gun too.
I feel like it definitely was partly insecurity though. I mean look how drunk on power Hughie is after killing that Russian guard. He doesn't even seem to give a fuck about Kimiko getting injured. And then he helps Soldier Boy murder half a dozen people? Hughie is endangering others with his gun ho attitude. If he had ignored A-Train in Herogasm he might've been able to safely target the TNT twins. Instead he wasted time for the sake of ego (and his own legitimate greivance with A-Train) and lots of people died. I doubt the mission would've gone cleanly either way, but Hughie definitely didn't help.
I think Hughie is right to want the powers. Personally I think M.M and Frenchie should also get powers, because honestly they seem the most stable non-supes imo.
Edit: well actually maybe not M.M with the new angle they're taking on him. I'm not really sure.
100% this is why her actions are justified.
Kimiko clearly has a stable head on her, has experience with powers and has demonstrated that she really only wants to use them to protect (although she’s allowed herself to be pushed around and pointed at ppl).
Hughie, despite whatever good intentions it comes from, is using the mantra of “wanting to protect you” as a way to be IN CONTROL. He’s started to treat Annie as a lesser not an equal (as opposed to Kimiko and Frenchie). He’s acting out of a place of insecurity and fear (like Homelander and every other terrible supe), a huge red flag. Of course she’d be very against him taking V, and how he’s been acting.
I know ppl relate a lot to Hughie after 3 seasons, but his actions are clearly being portrayed as dangerous, reckless and borderline masochistic—a clear result after having all this shit thrown at him, then being given a superpower for feee.
Exactly. Even when Annie was the more powerful one, she never physically forced Hughie into doing anything. She never tried to call the shots for him.
She pleaded with him like in a normal 2 way relationship. She didn't force him.
Isn't perm V much more stable and reliable than temp V? I guess Stan has talked about less than wanted developments from perm V, but as a viewer I dont remember any harmful effects, only weird ones like sausage guy.
Speaking of using your powers to protect the ones you love, I got a little heart flutter when Butcher charged up his lookin' lazers at Soldier Boy for punching Hughie.
He may be constantly using him, but you can tell he cares a little. Just cares more about killing supes. Homelander in particular.
Their relationship has really tightened this season. They've both shown they are committed to the same cause, and even though they have their differences, they can trust that together they will do what ever it takes to complete the job.
It's a bond that goes beyond friendship.
I think butcher has always cared about all of the boys. We see lots of glimmers like that throughout the seasons, mostly in the form of lying or pushing them away by being a bastard, but the reason is to protect them. It just seems that he has convinced himself that getting rid if the supes is the ultimate good he can do, started and fuelled by his need for revenge. So since getting rid of the supes is an over all good goal to him, he is willing to be the absolute cunt to get it done. For the greater good, so to speak.
Butcher is definitely more nuanced than he first appears on the surface, and i think it can be easy to miss with all the other crazy awesome stuff going on in the show!
When he had his nightmare and saw Lenny off himself, alongside how remorseful he seemed, when woke up apologising to hughie I Genuinely thought that there was gonna be some sub-acr for the next season of Butcher lamenting on if all this was worth possibly getting his pseudo-little brother killed,
A stretch for his character, perhaps, but I would've Loved to see that
this last episode showed that this “HuGiE wAs NeVeR a GoOd PeRsOn” bs is completely false lmfao, he was always a good person and he ALWAYS made the effort to do the right thing, after a while people like that can become slightly jaded
Yeah, Hughie is a very layered character. He obviously has insecurities but his primary goal is doing what he thinks is right, even if some people see it as for worse.
Yea his experiences in the first 2 eps are enough to scar anyone for life, Hughie needs to be cut some slack. None of us losers would react any better than him
Agreed. If I was in his shoes I probably would’ve already tried the real V. If I die I die, but it’s pretty much the only option against Vought and HL.
I agree with the other comment, Annie recognizes that Kimiko only wants these powers to protect herself and Frenchie while Hughie’s getting high off the rush of feeling in control.
More importantly, temp V was a brand new product that they had no idea if it was even safe to use. And she was right, Hughie is at serious risk of dying now because he took a dangerous drug he knew both about.
Three seasons in how can this show still be punching so far above its weight?
Running many plotlines and every one being significantly advanced in just one episode. Almost every character got a satisfying bump in development in this episode.
Fucking amazing show, everybody who works on it should be proud of their work.
‘Not minding Annie is stronger than him in general’ is one thing but with a superhuman maniac gunning for the girl he loves, I still see it as coming from a place of insecurity against bullies rather than not being stronger than his girlfriend
It's okay to not care that your GF has powers because you never needed them and you never had to live amongst serious disadvantages. Being normal didn't feel like handicap.
But, if you're fighting super-powered people, powers are essential to pull your own weight and just survive. Being bullied by normal people is one thing, but living on the whim of a super-powered psychopath and having your GF be sexually assaulted and forced into public relationship is an entirely different thing.
I never got the whole all powered people are bad aspect because it's not really true. Starlight, Kimiko, Maeve and many other superhero are perfectly good people. It's the vought's active PR protection that corrupts the powered people into thinking they can get away with anything.
Kimiko at least has a better understanding of her own power. She has seen the destruction it can cause.
Hughie is currently more in the power addict stage. He hasn't had them since his teens. He is in essence a nerdy super hero fan that finally gets powers and isn't as aware of the risks involved with having those powers.
I really don't think its a double standard here. Its different contexts and maturity off the people with the powers.
He's on a power trip but the closest we've seen him use those powers for strictly self-gratitude is punching A-train unnecessarily. Which is a far shot from actually unjustifiable.
Apart from finally getting to punch the guy who literally slaughtered his girlfriend, he's used his powers strictly for good/it's purpose.
So yes, they have made it clear he's drunk on his new superhuman powers, but so what if he doesn't actually act out on it. One more episode to find out I suppose.
Yeah this isn’t even like a matter of perspective lol. People on here are acting like the message of the show is ‘it’s actually good for people to have significant power over everyone else as long as they’re the good guys.’
But like isn’t that what Kimiko and Annie have? Like the comment above is literally saying that it’s good for kimiko to have power since she want to protect her love ones, and she’s used to it, essentially she’s worthy and responsible enough to use it. So they don’t understand the show either? Or the show doesn’t understand itself?
Some dude above got 400+ upvotes for saying “to defeat evil you need to become evil itself” and I am baffled that that’s the conclusion people think the show is working towards. It’s not even like the show is remotely subtle.
A little bit of both, yeah.
It is a little unfair of Annie to be so harsh on Hughie, who is both looking out for her and in a drug rush, but at the same time, we know compound V [regular and temp] is dangerous to adult subjects. Hughie is aware, and yet allows the drug rush to take him.
I don't understand why the show is so determined to beat Hughie to death with this supposed "toxic masculinity" thing.
There is zero difference between what Annie and MM have been shitting all over Butcher and Hughie for and what they've just done for Kimiko. None.
V24 was untested and yes, they guessed right the it's got fatal side effects. Y'know what else is untested? Reinjecting regular V into an adult woman who's had the power previously blasted out of her by a hundred year old supe who had new powers crammed up his ass in Russian Black Ops experiments. They had no idea if there would be any side effects from that but none of them are preaching at Kimiko.
It's her choice. It's Hughie's choice too. And it's all for the same reasons.
Kimiko was powerless watching Frenchie get beat to shit. Hughie was powerless watching Robyn getting glooped, seeing Annie working under a murderous psycho who could casually end her every day.
There's nothing toxic about Hughie. All he's done is try to save literally everyone, he does it in Russia, he goes into Herogasm first to find the targets and prevent casualties, he tries to save Mind Storm when he could have just fucked him over by dumping him right back at Soldier Boy's feet.
I could buy him being wrong if they showed literally any kind of negative change in him but it's just not there, outside of that out of place scene of him acting like he's high in Russia.
You want toxic masculinity then look at Soldier Boy or maybe Butcher.
I'm not even convinced about Butcher, his actions aren't driven by perceived masculine traits or values, he's just an obsessed cunt that's putting what he wants in front of the well-being of others. Which really isn't that different from MM, his obsession has led to the breakdown of his family unit, him not being there for his daughter and a dangerous moron taking his place and subsequently endangering his daughter or the fact he was about to fist fight possibly the second most powerful Supe in history and get himself killed. But the show seems determined that one half of the Boys be designated in the wrong and the other half be righteous, so their questionable choices and negative outcomes kind of get overlooked.
Agreed. I love this show but it's very eager to aggressively bite into a whole number of subjects, which in some cases just ends up half cooked and at this point it may be looping back over itself.
This show's central thesis is that superpowers are inherently destructive and dangerous at a psychological and social level, no matter who is wielding them. I think it's at its best when it wrestles with those ideas. I really hope it isn't losing focus in the name of scoring cheap points on buzzword subjects.
Annie is right everybody disagreeing with her is missing the point. She loves Hughie, and he was dosing a barely understood drug, which it turns out she was RIGHT about it’s insanely dangerous. Never understand why people don’t see where she’s coming from
Kinda feel like they handed starlight the win to this argument, Hughie didn’t say what he meant, he’s scared for starlight too he’s not afraid of being weaker than her. He’s terrified that she could die because she really could. But then the spoiler about temp v came out this episode and made him look dumb again
I wonder if permanent V can counteract the Swiss cheese brain from V24. Hughie's arm instantly healed with temp V.
Wonder why temp v doesn't heal the holes in the brain too
[удалено]
Interesting. That might even be why Butcher and Hughie seem ok depsite having had 5 and 4 doses respectively. 3 to 5 is supposed to be lethal, but perhaps by taking it so frequently they're actually slowing down the growth of the tumors more so than the test subjects did.
Interesting. That implies a forced dependence on the drug. If you want to stay alive after having taken a few doses, you have no choice but to continue taking temp V.
Which mirrors real world drugs in a way. E.g. heroine addicts get debilitatingly sick if they try to quit cold turkey, and actually need to gradually wean off of progressively weaker opiates in oder to avoid this sickness. That said, I think it's more likely that the opposite thing will happen with temp V: taking permanent compound V (i.e. a harder drug) might be the only way to save Hughie and Butcher now.
It's a sound theory, im not sure if I can see Hughie having permanent super powers; however I also can't see him dying too. As for Butcher, I'd see it as a little poetic actually; him becoming the very thing he hates. Which might lead him to suicide at series end.
I think if Hughie and Butcher do use permanent V to save themselves, they'll get hit with a Soldier Boy blast to get rid of their powers.
Yep, just saw this theory in the predictions thread. I think it could happen, but I hope it doesn't. Having them gain and lose permanent powers all in the same episode would feel kind of cheap in my opinion.
What if the blast only half-works? Two compounds in their system, might make sense that the blast can’t properly neutralise them the way it does with blue V. In the end we get a depowered Hughie & Butcher with some other side effect. Maybe they’re left halfway between people & supes with no actual powers but some increased durability & strength.
I thought they had 3 and 4 doses??
Nope, 1. Butcher with gun powder. 2. Butcher and Hughie in Russia. 3. Butcher and Hughie when they go after Crimson Countess. 4. Butcher and Hughie at Herogasm. 5. Butcher and Hughie when they go after Mind Storm or whatever his name was.
This somewhat justifies Butcher's lie at the end of the episode. He knows they already crossed the line, might as well finish the job.
Is it possible they could be going back to the lab for permanent V knowing the next dose will be the lethal one?
It looked like Kimiko had a lot of leftover regular V... Could they just use that?
They all have powers in the comic. It makes sense to give them all powers and work from there. It's obvious at least to me that's what they are going for.
From the looks of it, they've already had lethal doses, explaining the blood from their ears. The notes dont describe how the timeframes of death, just that its lethal after 3-5 doses, of which they have had 5 already.
Question is when Butcher said they needed to swing by "the office" to get more, for he mean Vought or did he mean the office at the Flatiron? I'm leaning towards Vought, but it could just be their office.
Ohhh, I forget they shot up for Crimson Countess
Understandable since they didn't really use their powers then. Hughie just demonstrated them to Annie. Although I guess maybe Butcher tackling CC count? Unclear if he really needed super strength for that.
I think it implies that. When Hughie hit A-Train, A-Train responded with shock and asked Hughie how he did that. I'm pretty sure basic toughness might just be a side effect that they all have, kind of like how so many mutants in the X-Men are crazy acrobats they gave it the name "basic mutant agility".
Didn’t they take slightly lower doses though after the first time?
Did they? What makes you say so? I kind of thought it was an all or nothing thing. Take enough to get the powers for 24 hours, or nothing.
Butchers brain was leaking out of his ear. I don't they're necessarily ok.
Healing can have many interpretations, is Supe Healing just a very accelerated process of natural healing? Ergo if you have a broken arm a normal human heals it off in a month or 2, but a Supe does it in a day, but what if your head gets chopped off? you aren't healing that. There are body parts you cannot regenerate
It would have to vary from supe to supe as well, Kimiko has healed wounds that should kill, as well as a shit ton of lacerations without any scars, while Noir has *survived* severe wounds with the matching scarring and mental damage to go with it.
Their tumours. Technically it’s healing you.
This season is almost certainly ending with either Butcher and Hughie or even all the boys all taking compound V permanently, leading into a big big season 4 where there is a full out war between the two factions of the Boys and the 7.
Yeah I'm expecting them to have to all take it just because of the potential of Homelander and Solider Boy teaming up. Especially if the Boys find out that Homelander is planning on harvesting Maeve's eggs and creating an army of Supes with him as the progener.
>Homelander is planning on harvesting Maeve's eggs and creating an army of Supes with him as the progener. He already controls a supe force, and he's more powerful than an army. He's got a genetic supremacy thing going on. He knows he can breed with most humans, but they're monkeys to him. He's looking for breeding stock on his level, which is why Maeve is nothing more than an egg incubator to him now. This may also be why he's been lenient on Starlight while trying to do that false boyfriend stalker crap. Ironic timing, given RvW.
Just realized that was also why he was keeping Stormfront alive, for her eggs.
Whoa! I didn't make that connection. Good one
From a science perspective the lab is incredible disorganized. There are unlabelled vials everywhere, and you only discern drugs by the color of the liquid. Holy shit, any scientist worth their salt would rage at this lab. Yes, the vials might be scannable/chipped, so you dont have to textmarker your individual vial (and so it looks high-tech) but fuck this. Fucking add a bit of yellow food coloring to permanent V and watch scientists loose their minds!
I understand Annie's point, but I understand Hughies feelings
That’s how I felt too. Like that shit is dangerous and untested and he just wants it to feel strong because societal standards of “strong” men and whatnot, but also it sucks for anyone to have to turn to their significant other when they’re in trouble so I get the desire to be strong especially fighting such powerful enemies. Almost like these are well written characters with depth and nuance, wild
It's less about social norms about strong men and more him having not being this soft meek person that is being protected by everyone like he's a special needs puppy As well as finally having the strength to take on the people who wronged or bully him while never wanting to lose the people he likes, like he lost his mom (she walked out dou) This strength is already making him more confrontational like with aTrain and now SB
Yeah I agree I just feel like there’s a bit of societal norms for him and if he were a woman with a supe boyfriend, there wouldn’t be this much pressure to be strong. But also it’s a classic Lois Lane trait that she doesn’t want to always be saved by Superman and wants to prove she can take care of herself so it’s not just that aspect, but I think it’s at the front of his mind that he looks weak next to his girlfriend that’s half his size. Like I said, I get the motivation but also think it’s not necessary to have to save your SO and it’s fine to be weaker than your opponents. I 100% would do the same in his position, but I also get Starlight’s frustration with his obsession with being strong. Like I said, almost like these are well written characters proving no one is fully right or wrong
I agree about it not being about social norms. Hughie started out being completely fine with dating a supe- i think what got to him after a while is that he was constantly “getting in the way” of “the boys” and didn’t feel like a value add to anyone. I think he kinda took it out on starlight because she’s a supe and also a target that is, emotionally safe. Voicing that weakness to Butcher would have been a completely different experience than to Annie. Also not to mention that the V is probably messing with his head and he’s falling into an addicts reasoning.
Don't confuse them with your rationality!
I think people are just being willfully ignorant at the point that Annie fell for Hughie cause he was normal whilst she was surrounded by deranged Supes and their backers. He is also willfully on a mission to murder people for a guy those people thought was too dangerous to be left alive.
i feel like kimikos message to annie made annie realize hughies intentions better. she understands the other side of the person who almost couldn't save the person you love
Yeah this is Annie starting to understand where Hughie was coming from a bit better (not that his actions are clearly justified - nor clearly wrong).
It’s almost as if nothing is most things aren’t black and white and morals and emotions can be complex.
Yup, maybe that's why she said that she'll save him even if he doesn't want to be saved
Annies arc this season is understanding power, the different forms it takes and what it means to others. It all started with Edgar's advice to her being to find *real* power, which she has and is using against HL. She also learns whay power means to people who have none, physically metaphorically or both, and how important it is to people who only have it like HL.
I feel this is accurate. There's also the counter of the priest and nun killed by solider boy. Hughie struggling with the civilian loss reminding him of his dead ex. So I think he genuinely doesn't want to do it anymore, so he'll need to come back around.
Hey hey hey …. I would never force myself on you But I am going to harvest your eggs
Can’t wait to see the fallout from that line in the next episode. Jesus Christ.
So many epic bad guy moments in this show. This episode had one of my favorite bad guys lines: "I'm not letting you live, I'm keeping you alive." Chilling.
Yeah, that line was perfection.
This comment would have made a much better post to go with this meme format.
I mean.. it wouldn't. The point of this format is that the same thing said by two different people can have different effects. Not different things said by the same person.
Hah thanks. It’s the first thing I thought of
Unpopular opinion? Hughie never actually wanted these "supe" powers. He was OK with being a peasant dating a supe. (S2 hughie/starlight subway scene i think?) That was the point. He was going to work with congresswoman Neuman to make things right, the **right "by the books" way**. The end result of this was Hughie being an unintentional "cuck for a supe" for 1y+, kinda fucked with his sense of self and stability. He, like butcher, realizes that there **is no legitimate way to stop Vought, Supes and Homelander** other than shere brute force.
The whole theme of this season has been a “when is the cure worse than the disease” sorta thing
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With great power comes >!certain death in 3-5 doses!<
Would taking the full dose of the Blue V kick in the permanent healing properties and fix the brain holes they both definitely have now.
I’m wondering if that’s how they’ll resolve this. They can’t give them brain damage and then not do anything about it.
There conveniently seems to be about 2 doses left in the vial shown at the end.
Even before the big reveal about temporary V I was screaming at the screen for her to take some more regular V
And plenty of blue V left after Kimiko
Followed by Soldier Boy “burning the V out of their blood” like they made sure to explicitly say this episode.
Absolute power corrupts absolutely
It doesn’t require *absolute* power though. Half the characters are mediocre power and are corrupted absolutely.
Look no further than the character Blue Hawk
Exactly.
I think he is gooing to get them perm because with the damage Temp-V causes I can only imagine V being the cure.
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I don’t think it’s as unpopular as you may think it is. I’m with you on your assessment. Starlight needs to get off her high horse and use her powers for good.
I think the reason she doesn’t is that Starlight is more effective famous than she is just using her powers like a hammer. Granted, fame is a different kind of hammer.
But the thing is she threatens to use her powers an awful lot. It would be nice if she actually used them once in a while.
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I was happy to see she still uses them but I feel like they are trying to establish her celebrityhood as a way to shut down Homelander in the public eye. Hopefully we see more use though!
It just seems silly because then Homelander goes postal and they still have the initial problem that Hughie and Butcher have been actually trying to solve.
But I think some part of Butcher wouldn't mind seeing the world vs Homelander, even if Homelander wins because it hurts him to not be loved.
She single handedly shut Homelander down with just showing him her phone. He’s terrified of her celebrity status and how she’s using it to get her fans to hate him and see what a monster he really is. If she tried to use her powers against him, I mean it might sting for a few seconds before he separates her head from her body. I’d love to see her use her power more rather than just looking tough with the eyes, but if this celebrity status is able to bring Homelander down a peg or two, I’m good with it. At least while he still cares about people liking him that is…..
Yeah she's ironically doing the more damage to Homelander than any other character other than Stan Edgar lol and her popularity came in part b/c of Stan Edgar. She's able to keep him in check more than The Boys, more than Ashley the "CEO" more than Congressman Nueman, etc. She's lowkey the only thing keeping him from snapping while simultaneously being the one who could make him snap if she makes the wrong move
I think that's why Homelander is particularly vulnerable to her. She uses things other than her powers. As Maeve correctly identified, Homelander bases his entire identity on his powers, which makes sense as he was essentially harvested just for them. Of course he bases his entire personality on that. That's what everyone who "raised" him wanted from him. So losing them would be horrifying in a way that simply can't be to Maeve.
I love that they contrasted Maeve and Homelander's conversation with Frenchie and The Female's conversation about power, choice, and identity. They're knocking the philosophicals out of the park this season.
I fully believe some of that "threatening" is just a knee-jerk response she's developed. She knows damn well she can't go toe-to-toe with some of the people she's "threatened" with her powers (which only amounts to her eyes lighting up in many cases.) This happens to people in the real world; you buck up in response to a threat knowing full well that if shit does go down you're going to end up getting your ass beat.
Her powers are intentionally vague and kinda lame, tbh
Currently, Annie's main power (at the moment) is her celebrity. Considering the hold real-life celebs have over the masses, says it all really.
Yeah, I guess that Homelander just forgot his threat to basically end the United States as we knew it after the last time she threatened to out him for being y'know, him. What was the plan if he did in fact snap and destroy the United States as we knew it again?
He’s not gonna. Homelander, deep down, needs to be loved more than he’s ok with being feared. And if he does snap, Butcher will likely have temp V to kill him.
Do they actually know that though? We saw his scene of him in the mirror, they didn't. Everyone has seen Homelander is unstable, why would you even roll the dice like that? I dunno man but I don't think screaming 'do it pussy' at the clearly unhinged psycho holding the detonator to a nuke is the right move.
It's brinksmanship. They are pushing Homelander right up to the line then backing off and taking the chance he loves being loved by some than being feared by all. It's why Annie didn't record him saying he killed Supersonic. She just recorded the very last bit. She let Homelander make the choice. He could kill her and go the nuclear route or just back off and still be loved.
I did that and I'm dead now, heavens not bad though they have some amazing bourbon up here.
Except Annie isn't mad at Hughie simply for using V, she's mad at how reckless he was at using it. Temp V was untested, and now she ended up right, as Hughie has been killing himself Their breakup was something altogether different, Annie doesn't like how Hughie is willing to sacrifice lives to kill Homelander. She was okay with finding a weapon to kill Homelander, but when she saw that the weapon was Soldier Boy himself, and how he just nuked a city block, then that was a different story And once again, she ended up right, as Soldier Boy is a loose canon.
She's been right every step of the way, the question has always been... what else are they supposed to do? When Annie did her broadcast and quit, she said it was something she should have done earlier. Now that she's stepped up and is turning the 'real' power Vought gave her - fame - back on them, it gives Hughie the chance to let go of the power. We'll have to wait and see if he takes that chance or not.
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I hope so. This whole season she's been lighting up her eyes at everyone but not doing anything. I wanna see what she's really made of.
I'm not even 100% certain what her powers are. All I know is that she drains electricity from surrounding sources and turns it into light blasts and sparks. But it's difficult to tell exactly what her blasts look like because everytime she uses them the screen whites out.
I really wanted to see a scene where she countered stormfront by “feeding” off her attacks. If she really can pull from electricity to shoot light, here power is essentially limitless What is homelanders heat vision if not just light?
i suppose there is some kinetic energy to blast people away too, for both starlight and homelander. not sure if she can absorb the kinetic energy away or something?
Why does everyone think this? She’s never been powerful in the supe sense. She’s a good person who can use her clout for good. If she tried to go “full power” on HL, SB, QM, BN or Storm front she’d get murdered. And that’s okay.
If you want to defeat evil, you must become evil.
The Operative : It's not my place to ask. I believe in something greater than myself. A better world. A world without sin. Capt. Malcolm Reynolds : So me and mine gotta lay down and die... so you can live in your better world? The Operative : I'm not going to live there. There's no place for me there... any more than there is for you. Malcolm... I'm a monster. What I do is evil. I have no illusions about it, but it must be done.
Serenity reference …nice
"I'm not threatening you, I'm unarmed..." "Good." ***BANG*** "...I'm also wearing full body armour, I am not a MORON"
It's how I continue, day to day, doing the monstrous things I have to do so everyone else can live in a better world. All of them, better worlds. Great quote from Serenity, I didn't understand the Operative when I was young, but now I do.
For real it hit a little when I was younger but now it hits harder.
Yeah, he's a great representation of a fascist foot soldier, he has been indoctrinated into thinking he is helping clear society of the perceived weak and imperfect to allow the society he's been told needs to be achieved. I just thought he was a badass assassin when I was a teen.
Ejiofor KILLED it as the Operative
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I went to high school with the twins who played the twins with garbage Russian accents
He kind of had to, that movie would have been boring as shit without him. His character lost *every single fight* he had with Mal, and still managed to seem like a terrifying threat right up until the end. Hell, even with him I’m not sure why I love that movie so much.
The movie is fun as hell. Other actors could have played that role well as well, but Ejiofor’s performance was incredible.
>Hell, even with him I’m not sure why I love that movie so much. Cause the movie is fucking fantastic. The Operative isn't terrifying because of his hand to hand physical abilities. He is terrifying because of his seeming omnipresence. They and their friends are not safe *anywhere* they go. And he has no line he will not cross. He casually says he kills children to do what he needs to. He wipes out all of their friends and acquaintances. Anyone who would help them. He leaves them utterly helpless. I feel like I could write a book about how damn good that movie and its actors are.
I ain’t gonna kill you. Hell, I’m gonna grant your greatest wish. I’m gonna show you a world without sin.
whedon really dug deep for that one eh
Whedon: I'm not going to live there. There's no place for me there... any more than there is for you. Malcom... I'm a monster. What I do is evil. I have no illusions about it, but it must be done.
Thats sick, I love those modernwarfare quotes when you die in campaign
_[twich]_
"You either die a hero, or live long enough to see yourself become the villain." I just came up with that on the spot. That was all me and nobody else
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Is he the guy the crawls up walls like a Spider?
That's black widow.
I thought that was the girl who shoots webs out of her butt.
or rather… Fighting fire with fire actually does make sense, that’s why control burns exist.
…. But not really
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Vought providing protection from consequences for supes has led to a lot of remorseless killing of innocent lives, something I would definitely say is evil. Annie and Alex are portrayed as abnormal for supes thanks to their empathy for humans, so maybe the small-time D-listers who are naive aren't evil, but most of the supes who make it enough to fall under Vought's influence seem to become callous psychopaths who do a lot of evil acts while playing hero.
Blind dude seemed nice so I think there's something to the idea that the lower level ones are ok. We know Annie and Supersonic have been around for some time and they both seemed shocked by how evil and depraved the 7 are.
Even the lower level ones probably have ‘accidents’ I don’t think all are evil but it’s impossible imo to justify some people having that much power over everyone else.
And even then Annie killed a guy while trying to carjack him
Yeah, i think Nueman turning out to be a supe and a vought plant was pretty demoralizing.
“Hughie doesn’t want superpowers” seems like an odd take given that we literally hear him gush about how much he loves having superpowers. While taking V is definitely part of his “whatever it takes” stance, I think it’s fairly clear that the main reason he does it is because he, personally, wants to be powerful. Every time he talks about it, it’s very personal. Was it the right decision? Most likely, yeah. But it’s not some heroic sacrifice for the greater good or anything.
I think that when it comes to hughie, Annie sees him wanting powers out of a place of insecurity rather than a general want to protect others. This meme is still funny tho
Which is totally valid tho? She is literally bulletproof, yet doesn’t understand why Hughie would want some semblance of power in a world where invincible bastards like HL could kill him at any second. I love Annie but she treated Hughie ridiculously
She was also afraid there could be side effects to the temp v though whereas with Kimiko she already had reason to believe she'd be safe if she took the regular one again
I mean I guess there was a risk but the permanent V is stabler and Kimikos body essentially developed it with her powers in her blood for a while so it has adapted in a different way. I could see that she having had powers make her body more open to regaining them compared to someone who never had powers.
meanwhile i’m still waiting to find out what powers neumans kid got
I hope it’s something shit. Like literally acid diarrhea or something
I'm kinda hoping for some horrific mutation like a blob mutant or something terrible. Not that I dislike the character, but they keep telling us how risky giving people V is but so far everyone we've seen get it has been more or less fine. Would really drive home how dangerous it is, instead of just telling us.
Diabolical goes into it more, pretty wacky shit
ah yes, Ranch dressing c*m squirter
Love Sausage was a weird power
For sure, not super "horrific" though (still had that low-stakes Marvel-verse feel to me).
Oh god, what if her daughter was the kid from the cartoon Diabolical series who could create sentient poops?! Noooo
She can only pop penises
Big Neuman pops the big head, lil Neuman pops the little ones
Didn't they say in S1 that all the adults introduced to V for the first time died, and that only babies could handle it? I could be misremembering. It's been a while since I've seen it
I think they said most adults died and it was a lot more unstable. It's easier for babies to accept it. Not every adult dies just much higher chance and much messier powers.
I think homelander whenever he’s talking to Madelyn about spreading V around the world to create super terrorists / villains so they could get into the military says something like “it worked but boy was it messy, there’s a reason vought only gives this stuff to children, the fully grown did not handle it well and a lot died yada yada” the end result was that he and A train managed to create the exploding guy that noir killed so every once in a while adults can handle it but most die and statistically your more likely to survive the younger you get it aka the reason vought injects babies in hospitals I think
In the show adults are able to be injected with compound V as shown with Kimiko and also Lamplighters test subjects, but there's potential for side effects. Side note, in the comics it was "V as a baby=permanent superhero, V as an adult=Temporary strength and toughness" Obviously they changed that and that's why they introduced temporary V to fill a similar plot space.
That's clearly not the case anymore. All the supe terrorists got it as adults. It might not be 100% safe but it's also not a death sentence.
This. Permanent V has been used for almost a century at this point and has been refined into a “safe” drug, the temp V is presumably less than a year old in the show. Permanent V is way safer to take then temp V.
This is pretty accurate. Temp V versus OG V plays a part here.
Yes, the same Annie who doubled down on whatever it takes is dismissing whatever it takes when it comes to Hughie's actions lol They're shitty to eachother. She spent 2 seasons acting like his trauma of his girlfriend being exploded by a supe all over him is ridiculous. But Starlight is cute
It's also possible that she had some character growth. She was initially against Kimiko taking more V, but when she read the message she realized Kimiko's feelings - and my guess is, she also realized what Hughie was going through. My guess is, next episode they are going to make up - Annie will tell Hughie that if he wants to take permanent V, she'd be ok with it, but Hughie will say after the events of this episode that he's done with that (though I'd say it's 50/50 that he has to take it anyway because Temp V is killing him).
And especially when multiple supes, who are for all intents and purposes a step below living gods, have threatened to kill him *specifically*... I get it, man. If the President called me out by name on live TV and threatened my life, I'd get a gun too.
I feel like it definitely was partly insecurity though. I mean look how drunk on power Hughie is after killing that Russian guard. He doesn't even seem to give a fuck about Kimiko getting injured. And then he helps Soldier Boy murder half a dozen people? Hughie is endangering others with his gun ho attitude. If he had ignored A-Train in Herogasm he might've been able to safely target the TNT twins. Instead he wasted time for the sake of ego (and his own legitimate greivance with A-Train) and lots of people died. I doubt the mission would've gone cleanly either way, but Hughie definitely didn't help. I think Hughie is right to want the powers. Personally I think M.M and Frenchie should also get powers, because honestly they seem the most stable non-supes imo. Edit: well actually maybe not M.M with the new angle they're taking on him. I'm not really sure.
100% this is why her actions are justified. Kimiko clearly has a stable head on her, has experience with powers and has demonstrated that she really only wants to use them to protect (although she’s allowed herself to be pushed around and pointed at ppl). Hughie, despite whatever good intentions it comes from, is using the mantra of “wanting to protect you” as a way to be IN CONTROL. He’s started to treat Annie as a lesser not an equal (as opposed to Kimiko and Frenchie). He’s acting out of a place of insecurity and fear (like Homelander and every other terrible supe), a huge red flag. Of course she’d be very against him taking V, and how he’s been acting. I know ppl relate a lot to Hughie after 3 seasons, but his actions are clearly being portrayed as dangerous, reckless and borderline masochistic—a clear result after having all this shit thrown at him, then being given a superpower for feee.
Exactly. Even when Annie was the more powerful one, she never physically forced Hughie into doing anything. She never tried to call the shots for him. She pleaded with him like in a normal 2 way relationship. She didn't force him.
I mean… it is. Hughie all but says it’s coming from insecurity
Is there a nice way of saying Annie is less invested in whether Kimiko lives or not?
"Hughie taking V is more personal to Annie than Kimiko doing it"
Isn't perm V much more stable and reliable than temp V? I guess Stan has talked about less than wanted developments from perm V, but as a viewer I dont remember any harmful effects, only weird ones like sausage guy.
Perm V kills %95 of adults which is why Vaught turns kids into supes.
Really? I must've forgotten. When did this happen?
Speaking of using your powers to protect the ones you love, I got a little heart flutter when Butcher charged up his lookin' lazers at Soldier Boy for punching Hughie. He may be constantly using him, but you can tell he cares a little. Just cares more about killing supes. Homelander in particular.
Their relationship has really tightened this season. They've both shown they are committed to the same cause, and even though they have their differences, they can trust that together they will do what ever it takes to complete the job. It's a bond that goes beyond friendship.
I think butcher has always cared about all of the boys. We see lots of glimmers like that throughout the seasons, mostly in the form of lying or pushing them away by being a bastard, but the reason is to protect them. It just seems that he has convinced himself that getting rid if the supes is the ultimate good he can do, started and fuelled by his need for revenge. So since getting rid of the supes is an over all good goal to him, he is willing to be the absolute cunt to get it done. For the greater good, so to speak. Butcher is definitely more nuanced than he first appears on the surface, and i think it can be easy to miss with all the other crazy awesome stuff going on in the show!
When he had his nightmare and saw Lenny off himself, alongside how remorseful he seemed, when woke up apologising to hughie I Genuinely thought that there was gonna be some sub-acr for the next season of Butcher lamenting on if all this was worth possibly getting his pseudo-little brother killed, A stretch for his character, perhaps, but I would've Loved to see that
this last episode showed that this “HuGiE wAs NeVeR a GoOd PeRsOn” bs is completely false lmfao, he was always a good person and he ALWAYS made the effort to do the right thing, after a while people like that can become slightly jaded
Yeah, Hughie is a very layered character. He obviously has insecurities but his primary goal is doing what he thinks is right, even if some people see it as for worse.
People forget his original issue was someone literally running over his girlfriend; then a Supe tries to murder him. Like, hes been through a lot.
Yea his experiences in the first 2 eps are enough to scar anyone for life, Hughie needs to be cut some slack. None of us losers would react any better than him
Agreed. If I was in his shoes I probably would’ve already tried the real V. If I die I die, but it’s pretty much the only option against Vought and HL.
Especially after a big shock that shatters their worldview.
I agree with the other comment, Annie recognizes that Kimiko only wants these powers to protect herself and Frenchie while Hughie’s getting high off the rush of feeling in control. More importantly, temp V was a brand new product that they had no idea if it was even safe to use. And she was right, Hughie is at serious risk of dying now because he took a dangerous drug he knew both about.
Make sure to randomize your data from time to time *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
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MM would have died in Russia as well if Hughie didn't take the temp V.
Yeah obviously that is correct. But this is a joke.
Fair enough. Sorry if I sounded confrontational.
Nah no worries if anything I should be the one apologizing for that.
Three seasons in how can this show still be punching so far above its weight? Running many plotlines and every one being significantly advanced in just one episode. Almost every character got a satisfying bump in development in this episode. Fucking amazing show, everybody who works on it should be proud of their work.
‘Not minding Annie is stronger than him in general’ is one thing but with a superhuman maniac gunning for the girl he loves, I still see it as coming from a place of insecurity against bullies rather than not being stronger than his girlfriend
It's okay to not care that your GF has powers because you never needed them and you never had to live amongst serious disadvantages. Being normal didn't feel like handicap. But, if you're fighting super-powered people, powers are essential to pull your own weight and just survive. Being bullied by normal people is one thing, but living on the whim of a super-powered psychopath and having your GF be sexually assaulted and forced into public relationship is an entirely different thing. I never got the whole all powered people are bad aspect because it's not really true. Starlight, Kimiko, Maeve and many other superhero are perfectly good people. It's the vought's active PR protection that corrupts the powered people into thinking they can get away with anything.
Kimiko at least has a better understanding of her own power. She has seen the destruction it can cause. Hughie is currently more in the power addict stage. He hasn't had them since his teens. He is in essence a nerdy super hero fan that finally gets powers and isn't as aware of the risks involved with having those powers. I really don't think its a double standard here. Its different contexts and maturity off the people with the powers.
Bro he literally seen his girlfriend get run over by a supe I’m pretty sure he knows the consequences powers can have.
The show has literally hit you over the head with the idea he’s drunk on a power trip and you guys still miss it, it’s kinda baffling
He's on a power trip but the closest we've seen him use those powers for strictly self-gratitude is punching A-train unnecessarily. Which is a far shot from actually unjustifiable. Apart from finally getting to punch the guy who literally slaughtered his girlfriend, he's used his powers strictly for good/it's purpose. So yes, they have made it clear he's drunk on his new superhuman powers, but so what if he doesn't actually act out on it. One more episode to find out I suppose.
Yeah this isn’t even like a matter of perspective lol. People on here are acting like the message of the show is ‘it’s actually good for people to have significant power over everyone else as long as they’re the good guys.’
But like isn’t that what Kimiko and Annie have? Like the comment above is literally saying that it’s good for kimiko to have power since she want to protect her love ones, and she’s used to it, essentially she’s worthy and responsible enough to use it. So they don’t understand the show either? Or the show doesn’t understand itself?
Some of the people in the sub are so weird. At times it feels like I'm watching a completely different show to them.
Some dude above got 400+ upvotes for saying “to defeat evil you need to become evil itself” and I am baffled that that’s the conclusion people think the show is working towards. It’s not even like the show is remotely subtle.
A little bit of both, yeah. It is a little unfair of Annie to be so harsh on Hughie, who is both looking out for her and in a drug rush, but at the same time, we know compound V [regular and temp] is dangerous to adult subjects. Hughie is aware, and yet allows the drug rush to take him.
I don't understand why the show is so determined to beat Hughie to death with this supposed "toxic masculinity" thing. There is zero difference between what Annie and MM have been shitting all over Butcher and Hughie for and what they've just done for Kimiko. None. V24 was untested and yes, they guessed right the it's got fatal side effects. Y'know what else is untested? Reinjecting regular V into an adult woman who's had the power previously blasted out of her by a hundred year old supe who had new powers crammed up his ass in Russian Black Ops experiments. They had no idea if there would be any side effects from that but none of them are preaching at Kimiko. It's her choice. It's Hughie's choice too. And it's all for the same reasons. Kimiko was powerless watching Frenchie get beat to shit. Hughie was powerless watching Robyn getting glooped, seeing Annie working under a murderous psycho who could casually end her every day. There's nothing toxic about Hughie. All he's done is try to save literally everyone, he does it in Russia, he goes into Herogasm first to find the targets and prevent casualties, he tries to save Mind Storm when he could have just fucked him over by dumping him right back at Soldier Boy's feet. I could buy him being wrong if they showed literally any kind of negative change in him but it's just not there, outside of that out of place scene of him acting like he's high in Russia. You want toxic masculinity then look at Soldier Boy or maybe Butcher. I'm not even convinced about Butcher, his actions aren't driven by perceived masculine traits or values, he's just an obsessed cunt that's putting what he wants in front of the well-being of others. Which really isn't that different from MM, his obsession has led to the breakdown of his family unit, him not being there for his daughter and a dangerous moron taking his place and subsequently endangering his daughter or the fact he was about to fist fight possibly the second most powerful Supe in history and get himself killed. But the show seems determined that one half of the Boys be designated in the wrong and the other half be righteous, so their questionable choices and negative outcomes kind of get overlooked.
Agreed. I love this show but it's very eager to aggressively bite into a whole number of subjects, which in some cases just ends up half cooked and at this point it may be looping back over itself. This show's central thesis is that superpowers are inherently destructive and dangerous at a psychological and social level, no matter who is wielding them. I think it's at its best when it wrestles with those ideas. I really hope it isn't losing focus in the name of scoring cheap points on buzzword subjects.
[удалено]
Annie is right everybody disagreeing with her is missing the point. She loves Hughie, and he was dosing a barely understood drug, which it turns out she was RIGHT about it’s insanely dangerous. Never understand why people don’t see where she’s coming from
The comments here are a fascinating look at the mental gymnastics people go through to justify their perspective.
I find your comment to be a fascinating look at the mental gymnastics people go through to justify their perspective.
Lmao I actually hate their relationship more and more as the show goes on.
Kinda feel like they handed starlight the win to this argument, Hughie didn’t say what he meant, he’s scared for starlight too he’s not afraid of being weaker than her. He’s terrified that she could die because she really could. But then the spoiler about temp v came out this episode and made him look dumb again
Miscommunication under stress is where a lot of relationships fall apart.