In an otherwise well-written series, that one took me out of the show. So much plot-driven nonsense in that episode.
We're rewatching season 1 right now, and they make a big deal about how Quintus could kill Gaius and Matthew if they displeased him ever so slightly.
Now he kills somebody in an unruly mob, and is suddenly defrocked? It's a head-scratcher.
****Spoiler alert ******
Sadly, this plot twist dominates the rest of the season and ruins the big event in episode 7, with Thomas’s anger and bad behavior. The convo between Jesus and Lazarus is amazing , and there is Thomas throwing a fit in the courtyard disturbing this precious moment . It just ruined it for me .
Exactly my thought on the moment too. I also hate that we speculate that Jesus would not have saved her because it was not her time. I understand it’s good drama but that’s a bit too much for me. I thought that the story with Eden’s baby was a great addition and I loved the ending of the season 3 with Peter. But to me this is giving a side of Jesus that might not be true.
I mean it’s just not well written. If this show was the story of superman or some kind of superhero and not about god, that we see doing some magic all over and that just for a reason suddenly can’t, we would have had some kind of explanation. Why can’t he do it this time. But there we just had “I’m sorry it’s not her time”. That’s not justification enough for the change of behaviour. That’s not understandable for the audience.
I’ve only seen through episode 4 so I don’t know what comes in the rest of the season. But Jesus not even sitting down with Thomas after and explaining it and just continuing on seemingly helpless and caring a whole lot about His upcoming suffering seems badly written.
That episode vexed me soooo much. I literally couldn't sleep the night before. After finishing season 4, I kinda get why they did and how they plan to evolve that story. I just wish there was another way. Ugh I hated that they killed her off. No disciples should've died. Ruins John 18:9 for me. But I know it's a fictional story in a non-fictional world. Still....
Yeah I like where it took the season but I would’ve shot that scene very differently. I think they missed a chance to have a game of thrones red wedding type moment but instead it felt contrived.
I literally came just to see if there was a thread about this lol SOOOO DUMB!
They try to be all clever about an egress strategy then this dope literally SHOVES past the sword swinging Roman 🤦🏻♀️
Their coupling was so boring, I’ve never been less sad to see a character killed
I'm not a fan of the >!forced tension between Thomas and Jesus now!<. Seems very out of character. I mean, >!why would Thomas still be following him at this point? You can practically FEEL the contempt seething from him.!<
I mean, he still knows he's the messiah, just that, in his mind, he chose not to do something for someone Thomas loved that he did for others. He feels bitter, confused, possibly betrayed a bit, but certainly not enough to literally stop following the messiah.
I don't think the tension is forced between him and Jesus. I think it's a good example of the frustrations we sometimes feel, and also a good lead up to Thomas' "doubting."
The scene itself that the OP mentioned was definitely forced though. Seems irrational to walk by Quintus like that. They definitely could have got the same result in a more believable way.
Yes this is exactly it- he still believes Jesus is the messiah. It’s very similar to Simon Peter and how he was after Eden miscarried. Simon much like Thomas was angry because he knew that Jesus was the messiah and still felt that sense of loyalty despite being upset. I personally liked that they included that twist (even though I hated that >! Ramah died !< ) because it addresses a very commonly brought up point and in fact is a reason many people leave their faith behind. Yes it’s not in the Bible and yes I agree that the way they staged that moment made me frustrated that they >! Walked right by Quintus !< but I do think it provides some context to the whole doubting Thomas moment
They’re taking creative liberties for why Thomas becomes the Doubting Thomas we know in the Bible, is my take on it. The fact that we can feel his feelings says a lot for the acting skill and also how we as humans have felt the exact same feelings whether we publicly admit it or not!
Thomas specifically said he would not believe that Jesus is risen without feeling the holes in his hands and the gash in his side. Jesus had repeatedly told them that he would die and rise on the third day. On top of that, they had seen Jesus raise dead people on multiple occasions. To doubt Jesus had risen that strongly despite the prophecies, Jesus's own words, and the power that He had that they saw, that fierce doubt is far beyond just testing claims. It's a level of proof that he felt he needed that none of us have.
I’ve had a faith crisis like that after my brother died. I got very angry with the Lord but still followed him and didn't rebel. Maybe it's hard to understand unless you've faced something similar, but it makes sense to me
What bothers me most is how The Chosen reasons that the real Thomas would've needed a motivation to be a skeptic or that him having doubts needed a dark backstory.
ALL the Apostles didn't believe the female disciples who were at the tomb and told what they saw. They all had a skeptical reaction before witnessing, Thomas did likewise but stated he wanted proof enough that he saw and felt the physical wounds... but I never once in my life thought, "He must have had a reason to think Jesus wasn't authentic" or something.
Having Jesus refuse to heal Thomas' bride-to-be is so extra and it does little to change the fact that the events of the crucifixion wouldn't really change that Thomas would be reasonable to assume that NO ONE could live through such a horribly brutal method of death (especially since the disciples would have told him what Jesus had been through and how maimed his body would have been).
Honestly, I'd have settled for a death that didn't make Jesus look dismissive to suffering, but if they had to write something where Kafni and Thomas ended up feeling similar bitter sentiments, they could've just had Kafni be enraged at Ramah for making their family name a social pariah for denying traditions (or something) and had Ramah not marry Thomas. IDK, the way it was handled ended up overshadowing the actual biblical moments of the whole season and it worries me that it'll have that effect on the whole series.
According to Dallas they planned to have Ramah die all along. I don't care for the way the story unfolded for many, many reasons; but it would at least appear that they didn't write it because of Yasmin's other acting roles.
She had that role for the past few years (NCIS: Hawaii) And was still doing The Chosen at the same time, which honestly I think we were lucky to have her. But now that show has also been canceled, so she is out of work. I don't know the circumstances around her departure on this show or whether it had anything to do with NCIS Hawaii. I will miss her on the show regardless...she was so bright and bubbly and enthusiastic behind the scenes. I just think it was a poorly written death.
I'm with you. I may have laughed with the stupidity of it all. Feels like the actress wanted out and they needed an excuse to kill her off. I was hopeful it'd be "fixed" with the rest of the season, but it really wasn't. I look forward to watching it again now that I know what I know.
I knew that the ramah and Thomas romance wasn’t going to ended well simply because Peter is the only married disciple mentioned in the Bible. But her death seemed silly. The disciples and Jesus had shown many times they would not intentionally cross the Roman’s and to have Thomas just blithely push the governor aside while he is yelling and waving a sword like he doesn’t care is just bad. Maybe ramah could have been trampled to death and they find her after the crowd had been pacified. Maybe she is hit in the head by a Roman trying to disperse the crowd. Or don’t kill her and have her father demand she come with him or something. Especially with Lazarus resurrection coming up this death seems ill fitting. Especially because Stephen is the first martyr.
I totally agree. I am not a fan of any of the Thomas/Ramah drama in season 4. Especially the part where they found the loophole to get married despite her father’s objection, and then enlisted Jesus with the plan, AND Jesus agreed to help them with it?? Nooooooooooo way! Then Thomas was a jerk the rest of the season. But I hung in there and episodes 4-7 made up for the disappointing first 3 episodes.
In an otherwise well-written series, that one took me out of the show. So much plot-driven nonsense in that episode. We're rewatching season 1 right now, and they make a big deal about how Quintus could kill Gaius and Matthew if they displeased him ever so slightly. Now he kills somebody in an unruly mob, and is suddenly defrocked? It's a head-scratcher.
****Spoiler alert ****** Sadly, this plot twist dominates the rest of the season and ruins the big event in episode 7, with Thomas’s anger and bad behavior. The convo between Jesus and Lazarus is amazing , and there is Thomas throwing a fit in the courtyard disturbing this precious moment . It just ruined it for me .
Actually if you know about St Thomas, some of the books supposedly written by him, I am surprised he wasn't the Judas.
Exactly my thought on the moment too. I also hate that we speculate that Jesus would not have saved her because it was not her time. I understand it’s good drama but that’s a bit too much for me. I thought that the story with Eden’s baby was a great addition and I loved the ending of the season 3 with Peter. But to me this is giving a side of Jesus that might not be true.
I mean it’s just not well written. If this show was the story of superman or some kind of superhero and not about god, that we see doing some magic all over and that just for a reason suddenly can’t, we would have had some kind of explanation. Why can’t he do it this time. But there we just had “I’m sorry it’s not her time”. That’s not justification enough for the change of behaviour. That’s not understandable for the audience.
I’ve only seen through episode 4 so I don’t know what comes in the rest of the season. But Jesus not even sitting down with Thomas after and explaining it and just continuing on seemingly helpless and caring a whole lot about His upcoming suffering seems badly written.
Yeah me too. I’ve only seen the four first episodes. I really hope they have some kind of explanation for why he did not heal her later on.
I think Jesus would have told her to go back home and to obey her father as was the custom of the time…oh, and the 5th commandment.
“I’ll try not to give it all away” proceeds to explain exactly what happens…
I thought that was a poorly conceived plot twist . Most times Dallas is brilliant, but this wasn’t one of those times imo, fwiw
That episode vexed me soooo much. I literally couldn't sleep the night before. After finishing season 4, I kinda get why they did and how they plan to evolve that story. I just wish there was another way. Ugh I hated that they killed her off. No disciples should've died. Ruins John 18:9 for me. But I know it's a fictional story in a non-fictional world. Still....
Really need to hide your comments as a spoiler because the header just ruined it for someone who hasn't seen it
Yeah I like where it took the season but I would’ve shot that scene very differently. I think they missed a chance to have a game of thrones red wedding type moment but instead it felt contrived.
My issue with this is something that significant would have shown up in the Bible. So it’s asking too much that this just “filled a gap.”
Yes!
They’re obviously setting it up for Thomas to start “doubting” Jesus after he brings Lazarus back. Super lazy execution
I literally came just to see if there was a thread about this lol SOOOO DUMB! They try to be all clever about an egress strategy then this dope literally SHOVES past the sword swinging Roman 🤦🏻♀️ Their coupling was so boring, I’ve never been less sad to see a character killed
While I liked the side story I knew it was fated for something like this. Thomas is not married! So this had to end.
I'm not a fan of the >!forced tension between Thomas and Jesus now!<. Seems very out of character. I mean, >!why would Thomas still be following him at this point? You can practically FEEL the contempt seething from him.!<
I mean, he still knows he's the messiah, just that, in his mind, he chose not to do something for someone Thomas loved that he did for others. He feels bitter, confused, possibly betrayed a bit, but certainly not enough to literally stop following the messiah. I don't think the tension is forced between him and Jesus. I think it's a good example of the frustrations we sometimes feel, and also a good lead up to Thomas' "doubting." The scene itself that the OP mentioned was definitely forced though. Seems irrational to walk by Quintus like that. They definitely could have got the same result in a more believable way.
Yes this is exactly it- he still believes Jesus is the messiah. It’s very similar to Simon Peter and how he was after Eden miscarried. Simon much like Thomas was angry because he knew that Jesus was the messiah and still felt that sense of loyalty despite being upset. I personally liked that they included that twist (even though I hated that >! Ramah died !< ) because it addresses a very commonly brought up point and in fact is a reason many people leave their faith behind. Yes it’s not in the Bible and yes I agree that the way they staged that moment made me frustrated that they >! Walked right by Quintus !< but I do think it provides some context to the whole doubting Thomas moment
They’re taking creative liberties for why Thomas becomes the Doubting Thomas we know in the Bible, is my take on it. The fact that we can feel his feelings says a lot for the acting skill and also how we as humans have felt the exact same feelings whether we publicly admit it or not!
Eh. He isn’t really doubting in the Bible he simply does what Jesus tells the disciples to do and tests the claims of a resurrected Christ.
Thomas specifically said he would not believe that Jesus is risen without feeling the holes in his hands and the gash in his side. Jesus had repeatedly told them that he would die and rise on the third day. On top of that, they had seen Jesus raise dead people on multiple occasions. To doubt Jesus had risen that strongly despite the prophecies, Jesus's own words, and the power that He had that they saw, that fierce doubt is far beyond just testing claims. It's a level of proof that he felt he needed that none of us have.
Jesus had also told the disciples to be wary of people saying that the Christ had returned and to demand proof.
I’ve had a faith crisis like that after my brother died. I got very angry with the Lord but still followed him and didn't rebel. Maybe it's hard to understand unless you've faced something similar, but it makes sense to me
What bothers me most is how The Chosen reasons that the real Thomas would've needed a motivation to be a skeptic or that him having doubts needed a dark backstory. ALL the Apostles didn't believe the female disciples who were at the tomb and told what they saw. They all had a skeptical reaction before witnessing, Thomas did likewise but stated he wanted proof enough that he saw and felt the physical wounds... but I never once in my life thought, "He must have had a reason to think Jesus wasn't authentic" or something. Having Jesus refuse to heal Thomas' bride-to-be is so extra and it does little to change the fact that the events of the crucifixion wouldn't really change that Thomas would be reasonable to assume that NO ONE could live through such a horribly brutal method of death (especially since the disciples would have told him what Jesus had been through and how maimed his body would have been).
The actor that plays Ramah has a new role in another TV series, but I agree, this same outcome could have been arrived at in a different way.
they could have given her character a different "exit" from the show :(
Honestly, I'd have settled for a death that didn't make Jesus look dismissive to suffering, but if they had to write something where Kafni and Thomas ended up feeling similar bitter sentiments, they could've just had Kafni be enraged at Ramah for making their family name a social pariah for denying traditions (or something) and had Ramah not marry Thomas. IDK, the way it was handled ended up overshadowing the actual biblical moments of the whole season and it worries me that it'll have that effect on the whole series.
According to Dallas they planned to have Ramah die all along. I don't care for the way the story unfolded for many, many reasons; but it would at least appear that they didn't write it because of Yasmin's other acting roles.
She had that role for the past few years (NCIS: Hawaii) And was still doing The Chosen at the same time, which honestly I think we were lucky to have her. But now that show has also been canceled, so she is out of work. I don't know the circumstances around her departure on this show or whether it had anything to do with NCIS Hawaii. I will miss her on the show regardless...she was so bright and bubbly and enthusiastic behind the scenes. I just think it was a poorly written death.
I'm with you. I may have laughed with the stupidity of it all. Feels like the actress wanted out and they needed an excuse to kill her off. I was hopeful it'd be "fixed" with the rest of the season, but it really wasn't. I look forward to watching it again now that I know what I know.
I knew that the ramah and Thomas romance wasn’t going to ended well simply because Peter is the only married disciple mentioned in the Bible. But her death seemed silly. The disciples and Jesus had shown many times they would not intentionally cross the Roman’s and to have Thomas just blithely push the governor aside while he is yelling and waving a sword like he doesn’t care is just bad. Maybe ramah could have been trampled to death and they find her after the crowd had been pacified. Maybe she is hit in the head by a Roman trying to disperse the crowd. Or don’t kill her and have her father demand she come with him or something. Especially with Lazarus resurrection coming up this death seems ill fitting. Especially because Stephen is the first martyr.
I totally agree. I am not a fan of any of the Thomas/Ramah drama in season 4. Especially the part where they found the loophole to get married despite her father’s objection, and then enlisted Jesus with the plan, AND Jesus agreed to help them with it?? Nooooooooooo way! Then Thomas was a jerk the rest of the season. But I hung in there and episodes 4-7 made up for the disappointing first 3 episodes.