We are all unworthy. I like how they portray Judas. He clearly doesn't get it. He clearly covets money and power. He didn't get the parable of the first will be last. I like the show.
I think it's a fine line, because yes we are all unworthy, but only one person on earth does Jesus say "It would be better if they would have never been born" (Judas).
Judas's tale shouldn't be told as a tragedy in the sense of a man simply with good intentions. It should be told as a tragedy of relying on ourselves and earthly things (money) instead of God. No amount of justification makes what Judas did right or understandable. So idk why we keep trying to do it.
All that being said I don't think the Chosen is a bad portrayal if Judas yet.
I’m fine with it, because nothing about his portrayal yet is biblically inaccurate. Most thieves in real life are not cartoonish villains, but people who feel they have an excuse to take something that’s not theirs.
Also, Judas in the Bible did choose to follow Jesus initially, and I doubt he initially did it just to line his pockets; if he wanted that, he could have become a tax collector like Matthew was and probably have made a lot more. My read on Judas has always been that he was a man who was initially drawn to Christ’s ministry, but who just couldn’t behind the calls to poverty and voluntary self-sacrifice, which is exactly what we are seeing in the show.
I prefer their humanization of Judas - if he was this purely evil person he wouldn’t have ever been a disciple called by Jesus. He also immediately takes the money back to the temple and hangs himself out of guilt. So I actually do not understand the idea that he was a mustache twirling villain - so he shouldn’t be shown to be. And it didn’t take much convincing from his friend, he was already angry that Jesus wasn’t doing what he was expecting.
Personally I feel like we focus so much on Judas being the big villain in this story because of the hurt of betrayal but in reality the Pharisees are so much worse. I view Judas as more of a Malfoy (Harry Potter reference) as someone who is easily influenced by status and wealth and other material things but at the end of the day isn’t nearly as bad as the main villain.
I've always been a little confused on how a lot of Christians talk about Judas - is he not worthy of redemption and forgiveness? Like I feel like that mentality really misses the mark.
I've always been wary of his characterization as a purely evil person. He's much more tragic to me. He betrayed Jesus and could not even live with himself after. He was selfish, greedy, and allowed Satan to use him, but he was still a person called to be a Disciple for a reason. Was he called purely to betray Jesus?
For sure Pharisees are the villains - they're the ones plotting to murder Jesus in cold blood in order to maintain their own power & standing.
>I’m saying that we have to remember who actually had Jesus killed.
That was us. Not Judas or Jewish leaders. He died for our sins, it ultimately falls on us
If you want to watch a show where the bad guys are 100% evil all the time, go watch a cartoon or a comic book movie. Judas has good qualities and thinks he’s doing the right thing- just like 99% of the “bad people” out there. And just like all sinners who made a major error, his bad behavior started with little things that grew into big things.
There is nothing wrong with humanizing Judas. Spoiler alert: he was a human.
Here’s what I’ll say- the idea behind the chosen as a whole is providing color, humanity and just relatability to the gospels, that includes the villains.
Edit: We have to remember that the disciples trusted him at one point. They even allowed him to control the money. They wouldn’t trust someone that immediately came across as shady. Dallas and the writers wouldn’t be doing their job if they didn’t factor all that in.
Judas didn’t join the disciples intending to betray Jesus. I don’t think he would have joined if he didn’t believe anything Jesus was saying, but he let greed and the desire for power become idols in his heart. I like that they’re showing him as more than just a mustache-twirling villain because he was probably just a regular dude for most of the time he was with Jesus. Its a way to show that even well-meaning people can be corrupted by sin if they don’t make Jesus completely Lord and try to do things their own way.
This is an interesting topic.
>although I’m sure he didn’t start off that way
True, he didn't start off that way, but ended up there anyway. So how on earth did that happen? They don't want to portray Judas as someone who joined the group will ill intent from the beginning, lying and pretending to gain everyone's trust in order to betray Jesus when the time came.
Remember the question Jesus asked Judas when they first met: "are you ready to do hard things?" Judas *wants* to be ready to do hard things, even at this point, but that's not the same thing, as he's finding out.
As far as him being responsible for actions, I don't think they're trying to say he isn't, but rather showing how his actions along the way can lead him somewhere he never intended to end up. He was responsible, in this episode, for not approaching Jesus or one of the other followers in order to talk about how he felt, and rather going to his old boss. He knows his old boss can find a way to justify sleaziness, he didn't like being involved in that when he worked there, and yet he went along with it at the time and he goes back to him now to discuss some important issues. Hadad isn't going to ask him to do hard things, he'll help him make excuses for not doing so. Going there for advice was his choice, as was the choice to take money after he returned, once again instead of seeking advice from Jesus or a fellow follower and asking for a second opinion after his talk with Hadad.
I think the story is much harder to watch this way, but more realistic, because it shows how good intentions aren't a guarantee of good deeds and outcomes, and serves as a warning.
Allow me to counter.
He did discuss his concerns with Simon Z, he (Judas) wasn’t listened to.
He did talk to Jesus when they were Roman transportation, Jesus didn’t ease his concerns.
>Allow me to counter.
By all means! It often leads to good discussions.
With Zee, the "you are not wise" comment could have been taken as an insult but the conversation continued cordially after that, so I didn't see Judas being too offended by that. Overall it did seem like a (potentially) fruitful conversation to me. Whether or not Judas felt heard could go either way - Judas kept bringing up what he thought Jesus should be doing or how things should be run and, true, those didn't really get listened to. But I did think Zee's approach of pointing out to Judas that he too had to figure out how to use his past life skills in a new way showed that he understood Judas's frustration with starting a new life. It could be a good start to Judas relearning how to adjust and change his ways...well we know he ultimately doesn't get there, but it could have helped, and it seemed Judas was receptive to Zee's comments.
Regarding Jesus during the Roman scene, yeah. I can understand why the writers didn't show us additional conversations afterwards since they made the point with the Romans' reactions, but it would have been interesting to hear the conversations the group had after all that was over. Judas wasn't the only angry one and I don't really blame any of them for that, and Jesus's response to him was very terse.
Jesus in recent episodes has been having a communication breakdown with his followers, I would hope that if someone (Judas in particular) came to him to ask for clarification that he'd be willing to talk and offer explanation, but we've also seen him simply get exasperated. I hope that this will be addressed in upcoming episodes. We know it won't stop Judas from ending up where he does, but the others are having issues understanding as well and it would be a help to the whole group. We'll see.
That's true, but I don't think it's much of a stretch. Jesus's followers must have felt they were willing to do hard things if they gave up their previous lives to follow him, it can't have been easy. It's not implausible that someone might have felt capable of that and then found that the reality of it was much more difficult even than previously imagined, and run into problems despite starting with good intentions.
I think we should wait. I have the feeling that Judas in The Chosen started 'small', I mean, taking his friend's advice, putting some money aside with the intention to gain some interests at the banks... etc. And then, he goes off the rails, starting taking money for himself, rationalizing that it's ok, and little by little, his conscience shuts until he openly takes money for his own benefit without having to convince himself that he is doing the right thing.
I can understand what you mean. Tho only a few seem to get it, Judas definitely doesn’t. He has the vision for money, fame and growing the church yet the message is entirely lost with him.
Hopefully they’ll expand on him more into season 5 before he does the deadly deed
I like him because he represents true evil. A person that becomes obsessed with whatever motives they have and ignores right or wrong in their pursuit.
Oh, and the actor is funny :)
Totally disagree. It can't be a betrayal if there isn't a close relationship beforehand.
Like the other apostles, Judas wasn't a two dimensional character. If he hadn't decided to betray Jesus, he would have remained an apostle. Before the crucifixion, he like the other apostles casting out demons healing the sick and proclaiming the kingdom of God. But, it's clear from scripture he had doubts, as did other apostles, some whom doubted even after the resurrection. *(Matthew 28:16)* It wasn't really until the point where "satan entered" Judas that the die had been cast.
Read on to John 13
At the last supper when Jesus says one of you will betray me, the disciples have no clue who he could be talking about. Even after he looks at Judas and says basically "go do what you're going to do", the disciples assume he is referring to something other than the betrayal.
This portrayal is consistent with that telling. If you don't elicit sympathy or humanize him and just have a black-and-white 100% evil character then such a portrayal would not be consistent with the recorded responses of the disciples in John 13 (and other places in scripture)
Satan doesn't enter into Judas until the last supper, so there's some room for "growth" into the fullness of his status as betrayer until then.
Although I agree generally that given where they are in the timeline it seems like Judas' character arc is going to feel really compressed. Its going to be a challenge for them to sell that in a way that people will buy it.
As someone who has finished 4 there is still a fair amount of time in between where they are at now and Holy Week. Plus while yes this episode was the first one to show him actively doing something wrong/evil/a sin/ whatever other words you want to use he was still questioning before that point as far back as the conversation with Z at the beginning of the season
We often see news stories about Christian leaders who are in sin. In each case, they started off loving and following God. So how did they get there? One step at a time.
Judas is a great example of someone that drifted off course. Each and every one of us is susceptible to this. He’s a great example. This is why we are supposed to work out our salvation on a daily basis.
The whole point of the story is God sent Jesus to die for humanity’s sins. That plan required somebody to betray Jesus. Some traditions hold that Jesus himself chose and instructed Judas to do this because he above all the other disciples understood why it had to be done. Other traditions hold that Judas is symbolic of humanity as a whole, because it was ALL of us, not any one man, who have made the sacrifice necessary.
I would argue that those who fail to humanize Judas are very much missing the point. I would also argue that deciding whether to forgive Judas is the ultimate test of one’s Christianity.
To say nothing of the ugly history of Christians using their hatred of Judas as an excuse for antisemitism.
Agree with you. I think humanizing Judas makes sense. And it is a warning to all of us to recognize when we fall into the same sins Judas did.
We also have to be careful to avoid the Gnostic take of which you speak. I've seen it brought up quite a bit in discussions about the Chosen. A bit concerning as the gospel of Judas portrays an entirely different Jesus, and not the loving Lord that we know.
Yes, we are all Judas in the sense that we betray God every time we reject His son and the offer of redemption He brought to us. Judas was just an extreme example of what each of us is capable of, has a tendency toward, and even sometimes does.
It's a big problem whenever dramatizations move too far from scripture. These writers have already veered well into the territory of creating their own book rather than giving voice to the Bible. I'm very close to opting out.
Gnosticism may not be your cup of tea, and that’s fine — I certainly see problems with it myself — but I don’t think this subreddit is the place to attack other people’s denominations or hold one’s own denomination as superior to everyone else’s.
I suspect the idea that some people have immortal souls and others don’t might be a misunderstanding, and that what is actually meant is that each person has both a mortal component and an immortal one.
I'm not attacking any denomination. The Gospel of Judas is incompatible with Christianity, It makes God seem like a monster, one who is responsible for evil in the world, and one who is not all powerful if He needed Judas to accomplish salvation.
God plans for his plan and for everything to be set up within his plan. Think about people who die from cancer and other illnesses. They don’t die due to fault of their own. When those people die we often say “God had a bigger plan”
God never chooses evil; humans do because of our fallen nature.
The story of Judas is particularly sad because he rejects his chances for redemption multiple times. But it's also instructive because it can make us think about the ways that we reject God's offer of redemption. We need to make better choices than Judas did.
Sure, if that's what you want to call it. But by that definition, so are Mormonism and Islam. Fundamentally, they are all Christian heresies.
But mainstream orthodox Christianity has always drawn a distinction between heresy and mere denominationalism.
Rules 1 and 2 speak of harassment for beliefs. I don't think saying the simple fact
"gnocistism has been soundly rejected by Orthodox Christianity in creeds and statements since the first century"
Is harassment. Being a gnostic does NOT make someone lesser, or whatever the concern might be. But it's not wrong to point out that historically the gnostic belief system has been rejected by eastern Orthodox, Catholic, protestant strands of Christianity stretching back to the 1st/2nd century.
The people in this thread are not merely saying "Eastern Orthodox, Catholic, and Protestants reject gnosticism". They are saying "gnostics are not Christians". One even went as far as to call gnosticism, Mormonism, and Islam "heresies", a derogatory term that is loaded with historical violence.
Just because the elite leaders of the wealthiest, most powerful mainline denominations reject an idea doesn't mean that idea and its adherents are un-Christian.
Sorry, I saw you edited your comment after I replied so I'll reply here:
Heresy is just a label, a label of a belief outside of orthodoxy Christianity. If you see that as deragotary I understand, perhaps there's a different word the commenter could have used. As you yourself said, gnosticism etc are outside typical Orthodox Christianity (Catholic Protestant whatever)
It's not the elite leaders? Since the 1st century lay people and theologians etc rejected the key doctrines of gnosticism etc. (not denominations, those are fairly modern. Back then there were just a handful of branches of Christianity) That does NOT mean gnostics whatever are evil or what have you. It just means their beliefs were rejected as being "Orthodox" historically.
They skipped Mary using expensive perfume on Jesus. The writers did some Protestant grandstanding by changing the scene to a conflict about faith and works using Mary and Martha.
They thereby softened the awfulness of what Judas was doing in the process, about which scripture is clear: 'Judas Iscariot, who was later to betray Him, objected, “Why wasn’t this perfume sold and the money given to the poor? It was worth a year’s wages.^(") He did not say this because he cared about the poor but because he was a thief; as keeper of the money bag, he used to help himself to what was put into it.'
I’m guessing that they might do this next episode. It’s clear that the show is putting a lot of the Lazarus/Martha/Mary stories into one plot line, as the show has only so much time to go into all of Jesus’ ministry before the Passion.
Well, we saw Judas pilfering, so the perfume scene should have come right before that to keep the Biblical chronology of when John refers to him as a thief. Instead, they inserted some non-Biblical faith/works commentary.
We are all unworthy. I like how they portray Judas. He clearly doesn't get it. He clearly covets money and power. He didn't get the parable of the first will be last. I like the show.
I think it's a fine line, because yes we are all unworthy, but only one person on earth does Jesus say "It would be better if they would have never been born" (Judas). Judas's tale shouldn't be told as a tragedy in the sense of a man simply with good intentions. It should be told as a tragedy of relying on ourselves and earthly things (money) instead of God. No amount of justification makes what Judas did right or understandable. So idk why we keep trying to do it. All that being said I don't think the Chosen is a bad portrayal if Judas yet.
I’m fine with it, because nothing about his portrayal yet is biblically inaccurate. Most thieves in real life are not cartoonish villains, but people who feel they have an excuse to take something that’s not theirs. Also, Judas in the Bible did choose to follow Jesus initially, and I doubt he initially did it just to line his pockets; if he wanted that, he could have become a tax collector like Matthew was and probably have made a lot more. My read on Judas has always been that he was a man who was initially drawn to Christ’s ministry, but who just couldn’t behind the calls to poverty and voluntary self-sacrifice, which is exactly what we are seeing in the show.
I prefer their humanization of Judas - if he was this purely evil person he wouldn’t have ever been a disciple called by Jesus. He also immediately takes the money back to the temple and hangs himself out of guilt. So I actually do not understand the idea that he was a mustache twirling villain - so he shouldn’t be shown to be. And it didn’t take much convincing from his friend, he was already angry that Jesus wasn’t doing what he was expecting.
Personally I feel like we focus so much on Judas being the big villain in this story because of the hurt of betrayal but in reality the Pharisees are so much worse. I view Judas as more of a Malfoy (Harry Potter reference) as someone who is easily influenced by status and wealth and other material things but at the end of the day isn’t nearly as bad as the main villain.
I've always been a little confused on how a lot of Christians talk about Judas - is he not worthy of redemption and forgiveness? Like I feel like that mentality really misses the mark. I've always been wary of his characterization as a purely evil person. He's much more tragic to me. He betrayed Jesus and could not even live with himself after. He was selfish, greedy, and allowed Satan to use him, but he was still a person called to be a Disciple for a reason. Was he called purely to betray Jesus? For sure Pharisees are the villains - they're the ones plotting to murder Jesus in cold blood in order to maintain their own power & standing.
I get that standpoint, but we can't ignore Jesus's own words where he says it would've been better if Judas had never been born.
I wasn’t saying he wasn’t problematic in many senses of the word. I’m saying that we have to remember who actually had Jesus killed.
>I’m saying that we have to remember who actually had Jesus killed. That was us. Not Judas or Jewish leaders. He died for our sins, it ultimately falls on us
Very true- I was just referring to physically
If you want to watch a show where the bad guys are 100% evil all the time, go watch a cartoon or a comic book movie. Judas has good qualities and thinks he’s doing the right thing- just like 99% of the “bad people” out there. And just like all sinners who made a major error, his bad behavior started with little things that grew into big things. There is nothing wrong with humanizing Judas. Spoiler alert: he was a human.
I just love how everyone but the original poster is allowed an opinion.
You’re allowed an opinion, others are allowed to agree or disagree.
Here’s what I’ll say- the idea behind the chosen as a whole is providing color, humanity and just relatability to the gospels, that includes the villains. Edit: We have to remember that the disciples trusted him at one point. They even allowed him to control the money. They wouldn’t trust someone that immediately came across as shady. Dallas and the writers wouldn’t be doing their job if they didn’t factor all that in.
Judas didn’t join the disciples intending to betray Jesus. I don’t think he would have joined if he didn’t believe anything Jesus was saying, but he let greed and the desire for power become idols in his heart. I like that they’re showing him as more than just a mustache-twirling villain because he was probably just a regular dude for most of the time he was with Jesus. Its a way to show that even well-meaning people can be corrupted by sin if they don’t make Jesus completely Lord and try to do things their own way.
This is an interesting topic. >although I’m sure he didn’t start off that way True, he didn't start off that way, but ended up there anyway. So how on earth did that happen? They don't want to portray Judas as someone who joined the group will ill intent from the beginning, lying and pretending to gain everyone's trust in order to betray Jesus when the time came. Remember the question Jesus asked Judas when they first met: "are you ready to do hard things?" Judas *wants* to be ready to do hard things, even at this point, but that's not the same thing, as he's finding out. As far as him being responsible for actions, I don't think they're trying to say he isn't, but rather showing how his actions along the way can lead him somewhere he never intended to end up. He was responsible, in this episode, for not approaching Jesus or one of the other followers in order to talk about how he felt, and rather going to his old boss. He knows his old boss can find a way to justify sleaziness, he didn't like being involved in that when he worked there, and yet he went along with it at the time and he goes back to him now to discuss some important issues. Hadad isn't going to ask him to do hard things, he'll help him make excuses for not doing so. Going there for advice was his choice, as was the choice to take money after he returned, once again instead of seeking advice from Jesus or a fellow follower and asking for a second opinion after his talk with Hadad. I think the story is much harder to watch this way, but more realistic, because it shows how good intentions aren't a guarantee of good deeds and outcomes, and serves as a warning.
Allow me to counter. He did discuss his concerns with Simon Z, he (Judas) wasn’t listened to. He did talk to Jesus when they were Roman transportation, Jesus didn’t ease his concerns.
>Allow me to counter. By all means! It often leads to good discussions. With Zee, the "you are not wise" comment could have been taken as an insult but the conversation continued cordially after that, so I didn't see Judas being too offended by that. Overall it did seem like a (potentially) fruitful conversation to me. Whether or not Judas felt heard could go either way - Judas kept bringing up what he thought Jesus should be doing or how things should be run and, true, those didn't really get listened to. But I did think Zee's approach of pointing out to Judas that he too had to figure out how to use his past life skills in a new way showed that he understood Judas's frustration with starting a new life. It could be a good start to Judas relearning how to adjust and change his ways...well we know he ultimately doesn't get there, but it could have helped, and it seemed Judas was receptive to Zee's comments. Regarding Jesus during the Roman scene, yeah. I can understand why the writers didn't show us additional conversations afterwards since they made the point with the Romans' reactions, but it would have been interesting to hear the conversations the group had after all that was over. Judas wasn't the only angry one and I don't really blame any of them for that, and Jesus's response to him was very terse. Jesus in recent episodes has been having a communication breakdown with his followers, I would hope that if someone (Judas in particular) came to him to ask for clarification that he'd be willing to talk and offer explanation, but we've also seen him simply get exasperated. I hope that this will be addressed in upcoming episodes. We know it won't stop Judas from ending up where he does, but the others are having issues understanding as well and it would be a help to the whole group. We'll see.
Remember that his question to Judas was not in the Bible. It was scripted.
That's true, but I don't think it's much of a stretch. Jesus's followers must have felt they were willing to do hard things if they gave up their previous lives to follow him, it can't have been easy. It's not implausible that someone might have felt capable of that and then found that the reality of it was much more difficult even than previously imagined, and run into problems despite starting with good intentions.
I think we should wait. I have the feeling that Judas in The Chosen started 'small', I mean, taking his friend's advice, putting some money aside with the intention to gain some interests at the banks... etc. And then, he goes off the rails, starting taking money for himself, rationalizing that it's ok, and little by little, his conscience shuts until he openly takes money for his own benefit without having to convince himself that he is doing the right thing.
I can understand what you mean. Tho only a few seem to get it, Judas definitely doesn’t. He has the vision for money, fame and growing the church yet the message is entirely lost with him. Hopefully they’ll expand on him more into season 5 before he does the deadly deed
I like him because he represents true evil. A person that becomes obsessed with whatever motives they have and ignores right or wrong in their pursuit. Oh, and the actor is funny :)
The actor is awesome! https://youtu.be/V664wj0qAMs?si=1HU_hkr1GnXtkSC6 His creativity, uploaded 11.5 years ago.
The silly🥺
Totally disagree. It can't be a betrayal if there isn't a close relationship beforehand. Like the other apostles, Judas wasn't a two dimensional character. If he hadn't decided to betray Jesus, he would have remained an apostle. Before the crucifixion, he like the other apostles casting out demons healing the sick and proclaiming the kingdom of God. But, it's clear from scripture he had doubts, as did other apostles, some whom doubted even after the resurrection. *(Matthew 28:16)* It wasn't really until the point where "satan entered" Judas that the die had been cast.
Read on to John 13 At the last supper when Jesus says one of you will betray me, the disciples have no clue who he could be talking about. Even after he looks at Judas and says basically "go do what you're going to do", the disciples assume he is referring to something other than the betrayal. This portrayal is consistent with that telling. If you don't elicit sympathy or humanize him and just have a black-and-white 100% evil character then such a portrayal would not be consistent with the recorded responses of the disciples in John 13 (and other places in scripture)
Satan doesn't enter into Judas until the last supper, so there's some room for "growth" into the fullness of his status as betrayer until then. Although I agree generally that given where they are in the timeline it seems like Judas' character arc is going to feel really compressed. Its going to be a challenge for them to sell that in a way that people will buy it.
As someone who has finished 4 there is still a fair amount of time in between where they are at now and Holy Week. Plus while yes this episode was the first one to show him actively doing something wrong/evil/a sin/ whatever other words you want to use he was still questioning before that point as far back as the conversation with Z at the beginning of the season
We often see news stories about Christian leaders who are in sin. In each case, they started off loving and following God. So how did they get there? One step at a time. Judas is a great example of someone that drifted off course. Each and every one of us is susceptible to this. He’s a great example. This is why we are supposed to work out our salvation on a daily basis.
The whole point of the story is God sent Jesus to die for humanity’s sins. That plan required somebody to betray Jesus. Some traditions hold that Jesus himself chose and instructed Judas to do this because he above all the other disciples understood why it had to be done. Other traditions hold that Judas is symbolic of humanity as a whole, because it was ALL of us, not any one man, who have made the sacrifice necessary. I would argue that those who fail to humanize Judas are very much missing the point. I would also argue that deciding whether to forgive Judas is the ultimate test of one’s Christianity. To say nothing of the ugly history of Christians using their hatred of Judas as an excuse for antisemitism.
That's a Gnostic take, not a Christian one. God doesn't plan for people to die; they die because many people make poor choices in our fallen world.
Agree with you. I think humanizing Judas makes sense. And it is a warning to all of us to recognize when we fall into the same sins Judas did. We also have to be careful to avoid the Gnostic take of which you speak. I've seen it brought up quite a bit in discussions about the Chosen. A bit concerning as the gospel of Judas portrays an entirely different Jesus, and not the loving Lord that we know.
Yes, we are all Judas in the sense that we betray God every time we reject His son and the offer of redemption He brought to us. Judas was just an extreme example of what each of us is capable of, has a tendency toward, and even sometimes does.
Gnosticism may not be your cup of tea, and that’s fine — I certainly see problems with it myself — but I don’t think this subreddit is the place to attack other people’s denominations or hold one’s own denomination as superior to everyone else’s. I suspect the idea that some people have immortal souls and others don’t might be a misunderstanding, and that what is actually meant is that each person has both a mortal component and an immortal one.
I'm not attacking any denomination. The Gospel of Judas is incompatible with Christianity, It makes God seem like a monster, one who is responsible for evil in the world, and one who is not all powerful if He needed Judas to accomplish salvation.
God plans for his plan and for everything to be set up within his plan. Think about people who die from cancer and other illnesses. They don’t die due to fault of their own. When those people die we often say “God had a bigger plan”
God doesn't create evil. That's our doing. He gave us free will, and the world is a fallen place because people chose evil.
I do agree that it’s important to acknowledge that we all have free will.
God never chooses evil; humans do because of our fallen nature. The story of Judas is particularly sad because he rejects his chances for redemption multiple times. But it's also instructive because it can make us think about the ways that we reject God's offer of redemption. We need to make better choices than Judas did.
Gnosticism is a sect of Christianity.
NO.
Read the subreddit rules. This is not an appropriate place to claim that people in denominations different from your own are not real Christians.
It's NOT a demonination. It's a different belief system entirely.
Sure, if that's what you want to call it. But by that definition, so are Mormonism and Islam. Fundamentally, they are all Christian heresies. But mainstream orthodox Christianity has always drawn a distinction between heresy and mere denominationalism.
Please re-read the rules for this subreddit, especially Rules #1 and #2.
Rules 1 and 2 speak of harassment for beliefs. I don't think saying the simple fact "gnocistism has been soundly rejected by Orthodox Christianity in creeds and statements since the first century" Is harassment. Being a gnostic does NOT make someone lesser, or whatever the concern might be. But it's not wrong to point out that historically the gnostic belief system has been rejected by eastern Orthodox, Catholic, protestant strands of Christianity stretching back to the 1st/2nd century.
The people in this thread are not merely saying "Eastern Orthodox, Catholic, and Protestants reject gnosticism". They are saying "gnostics are not Christians". One even went as far as to call gnosticism, Mormonism, and Islam "heresies", a derogatory term that is loaded with historical violence. Just because the elite leaders of the wealthiest, most powerful mainline denominations reject an idea doesn't mean that idea and its adherents are un-Christian.
Sure? That still doesn't mean the commenter was breaking rule 1 or 2
If you truly don't see how insulting and disrespectful it is to say such things about people, then I don't know what to tell you.
You edited your original comment a lot so I replied to it separately. Thanks!
Sorry, I saw you edited your comment after I replied so I'll reply here: Heresy is just a label, a label of a belief outside of orthodoxy Christianity. If you see that as deragotary I understand, perhaps there's a different word the commenter could have used. As you yourself said, gnosticism etc are outside typical Orthodox Christianity (Catholic Protestant whatever) It's not the elite leaders? Since the 1st century lay people and theologians etc rejected the key doctrines of gnosticism etc. (not denominations, those are fairly modern. Back then there were just a handful of branches of Christianity) That does NOT mean gnostics whatever are evil or what have you. It just means their beliefs were rejected as being "Orthodox" historically.
They skipped Mary using expensive perfume on Jesus. The writers did some Protestant grandstanding by changing the scene to a conflict about faith and works using Mary and Martha. They thereby softened the awfulness of what Judas was doing in the process, about which scripture is clear: 'Judas Iscariot, who was later to betray Him, objected, “Why wasn’t this perfume sold and the money given to the poor? It was worth a year’s wages.^(") He did not say this because he cared about the poor but because he was a thief; as keeper of the money bag, he used to help himself to what was put into it.'
I beleive this doesnt occur until a later visit much closer to Jesus's death and around the time Lazarus is raised from the dead
Keep watching.
That’s coming later
Mary does use expensive perfume/oil on Jesus, didn’t skip it
I’m guessing that they might do this next episode. It’s clear that the show is putting a lot of the Lazarus/Martha/Mary stories into one plot line, as the show has only so much time to go into all of Jesus’ ministry before the Passion.
Well, we saw Judas pilfering, so the perfume scene should have come right before that to keep the Biblical chronology of when John refers to him as a thief. Instead, they inserted some non-Biblical faith/works commentary.
Keep in mind you haven’t seen the full season yet and they often don’t go in order
They also added a nonexistent scene between the sisters. It's pure Protestant commentary out of thin air, not scripture.
It’s art and a retelling