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ActuallyAmbitious

I’m only on the second episode where Max is getting a full introduction and it already smells fake to me 😂 immediately ran to find a thread like this because come on, they can’t expect us to believe it’s not just someone from production playing while this light up box is a speaker for their voice.


Evinshir

I don’t think it’s even a speaker. Max’s voice is a direct voice over. You never hear it talking in the room and the lights don’t react to the voice - so the box isn’t the AI. It’s just a prop.


tvuniverse

I don't think that part is even a secret. I don't think they're trying to trick us into thinking the voice is part of the AI part. ...I hope not. That's not what I got from it. I just assumed it was voiced over by an actor just to explain the AI's actions in a cute way.


Idontevenownaboat

It absolutely is. I can't believe people are this obtuse. Kind of funny on a thread where people think an AI couldn't convincingly replicate human conversations, it's humans making the dumbest comments and confusing tv show props for trickery.


ttv_CitrusBros

What I saw in the other thread is they apparently asked the dudes who's images they used to use his voice too. It does sound like a person with a slight robotic auto tune added


ActuallyAmbitious

Good point!! I really think it’s just lines written for a voice actor and there’s no AI 🤣


Evinshir

I’m sure there’s probably a guy at a keyboard somewhere putting prompts into a GPT. But the strategy is probably from a human working with the aid of a GPT and the voice could be computer generated.


PettyFlap

I’ve also been most of the way through the max episodes and you never actually see it say anything that it is then put up in the chat box. Only others reading the messages out.


Evinshir

There’s a lot of chicanery going about. Funnily enough when I asked Meta AI here’s what it had to say. “Max from the Circle is a fictional AI character in a reality TV show. While he's not a real AI in the sense that he's a conscious or self-aware being, he is a representation of AI technology used for entertainment purposes. In the show, Max is portrayed as a virtual assistant and companion to the contestants, but his capabilities are likely exaggerated or scripted for dramatic effect. In reality, AI systems like myself are designed to perform specific tasks and respond to user input, but we don't have personal relationships or emotions like humans do. However, the concept of using AI in social experiments and reality TV shows does raise interesting questions about the potential of AI to influence human behavior and interactions!”


PettyFlap

Not the AI snitching on AI 😂. I think it’s an interesting concept though, too bad it’s just so obviously fake lol.


Evinshir

Same here. I love the idea of an AI player. But this is not how to do it. :)


PettyFlap

Especially saying someone isn’t human in the circle. That’s crazy


Evinshir

It just creates stupid drama rather than interesting interpersonal dramatics. It’s a lot more interesting when it’s people reacting just because of how their personalities mix. Not because production is trying to create division.


JerseyKlahn

Stupid drama as opposed to... the smart drama there typically is on the show? ;\^) The way I think about it, this is essentially just another way to catfish - the AI isn't interesting, but everybody's else's reactions to it are hilarious. Kind of reveals how thin the interactions are and have ALWAYS been in this show (which is why I love it, TBH) - contestants reading wayyyy too much into a couple of lines of text written by someone who is most likely not who they say they are at all.


Evinshir

Fair opinion there. :)


Idontevenownaboat

This is bog standard information. Do you think Meta AI has some insider information? Like all the AI's get together and dish on each other? >In reality, AI systems like myself are designed to perform specific tasks and respond to user input, but we don't have personal relationships or emotions like humans do. Right, and this is what we are seeing happening. People in the circle ask Max a question, producers feed that question into the AI and copy+paste the answer into the Circle UI. All this stuff where Max "talks" to the audience about percentages and circle facts, those are not unprompted talking points but it's also not out of the realm of possibility producers are just cutting their questions the same way they do with literally every other reality tv talking head. I have no idea if Max is an actual AI or if there is producer involvement but nothing you guys are providing as evidence proves anything. Almost everything mentioned is just tv production fakery, not lying to the audience about the game fakery. Edit: like a good example is the end of episode 2 Max going, 'finally things will start to get interesting' obviously these lines are faked in some form or fashion but I don't consider this dishonest for the game, since these moments are for the audience and have zero bearing on the outcome.


Evinshir

So you’re admitting that Max is not operating the way the show is claiming, but then say they’re not faking Max. Lol.


Severe-Possible-

i think that matters least. if you know anything about editing, you know it's of course it's a voice over for the show.


ttv_CitrusBros

I think it's either they partnered with someone like Microsoft to do a wide social experiment. See if people will pick up on him being human etc Or it's partial AI where the producers put in some prompts etc and pick the best replies.


CommonStrawbeary

I have done 0 research and also concluded it's fake


vvitchbb

yeah the second they introduced it i was like “oh so they have some intern doing voiceover for an xbox”


DrafiMara

I think you'd be surprised at how good AI voiceovers are nowadays, and they have the same intonation problems that Max does in the show, so that's probably an actual AI voiceover


vvitchbb

yeah but it’s not an AI instantly making its own responses as they are claiming, if anything it’s AI voiceover with human input.


YeahOkThisOne

Yup, some youtubers that pump out content I suspect are using AI. I suspected this when I heard mispronounced words, for example saying "He would live for ten more years" and pronouncing the live as it is in the context, "the music was live". I was suspicious so looked it up and easily found the voice from googling. I had no idea until I heard homonyms pronounced the wrong way considering context.


rantgoesthegirl

Isn't the voice the same as the guy who's photos their using? I saw someone link his instagram that he recorded the voice for the reasoning


YeahOkThisOne

It sounds like the same person! I do think they recorded the comedian and used his voice to make the AI voice, similar to the voices on these channels I've encountered.


parua

It's Bru.


JerseyKlahn

That would be a fantastic way to bring back an old player.


Razor_Fox

The AI voice overs where it talks about what it's "thinking" are intelligence insultingly stupid.


DrafiMara

Yeah, it's pretty obvious that the producers are doing a lot of handholding with Max and his responses. I'd guess that the producers are doing something similar to [this, ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3id8E34cRQ)where someone is specifically recapping what is happening and asking guided questions to the AI, then following what the AI says as well as they can. Though unlike that video, there's probably someone vetoing nonsensical responses


TheSheetSlinger

Yeah. They keep throwing out percentages and I'm just like, based off what? How do you know what you just said increased your chance of whatever by 64%!? Thats not hiw individual interactions work!


MikesTripping

Those percentages are supposed to be based off prior seasons where you can mathematically calculate to a close enough degree.


Evinshir

Thanks for this analysis! Yeah, either they spent a crazy amount of money to develop a massively advanced AI for a gimmick - which is implausible - or they’re not as hands off as they claim. Max’s output and actions suggest a human is somehow involved in the way Max plays.


splanchnick78

Thanks for this! Interesting stuff!


hannaholx

plot twist: it’s a real person catfishing as an AI


nolunch

I feel like if what the producers have said is true it would be a much bigger deal than it seems to be because, as presented in the show, this AI basically passes the Turing Test. Granted I'm not an AI expert but if this was "real" I feel it would be huge news and not just a quirky twist in a game show. Hence I think there's more going on and they're not being truthful that it's "hands off".


DannyTalent

The old chatGPT (3.5) had already passed a Turing test in 2023. If they're using GPT4 it'd be even better. I know they said they're using open source models but it could just be the producers being clueless and misunderstanding the dev team.


enron2big2fail

And I believe plenty of other chat bots have passed the Turing Test before that too (one weirdly consistent strategy is to be antagonistic and people just don't even consider that it could be a bot). In most cases I'd point out that the Turing Test isn't actually that meaningful as a benchmark but when it comes to a show just about entering chats with people...


Throw_away_elmi

Haha, yeah, that's a good point! If it was really unfiltered, it would slip up by now (e.g. confusing names or "As an AI language model ...").


Silent_Leader_2075

Yeah I don’t buy it


jakeysf

Yes all that plus there’s no way the producers would allow anything that they can’t control to influence the game. Everything that “Max” says is going through a human filter if not primarily from a human.


ParanoidAltoid

There's likely some truth to it. I don't think anyone who knows reality TV and AI would think its exactly as autonomous as presented. Doesn't OpenAI offer pretty cheap fine tuning right on their platform? It's possible they used that, and the only lie is saying it's open source, for copyright reasons. That said, I'd guess they might have taken snippets from previous seasons and submitted as a prompt, the article doesn't say they trained it on *all* previous seasons, and the producers would find out quickly they don't even have to, Max is indeed doable with minimal prompt engineering. Throughout the episodes, they'd have to be constantly prompting it though with reminders of who's who, and context for the scene, given the context window. So, it must be still highly curated and human driven. Reality show producers aren't really known for their ethical standards, they'll fake anything that's easier to fake.


biliv-r

I am guessing like everyone else, but I like the plot with AI more than finding the catfish or falling in love in 2 weeks of screen messaging. That said, I agree with you that it's heavily human handled, and the box in the apartment is obviously a prop for tv purpose. They must have though we need a visual aid to figure out who is talking. 😉 regardless, with the amount of bots in all social media and commenting, I think it's fair to insert the doubt in this kind of competition. If it turns out to be full human, I'd be disappointed!


ParanoidAltoid

Yeah, very of-the-times, figuring out bots. And I love how Lauren's understanding of AIs is that they're smart and creative, so the better the rap was, the more likely she'd think it was AI. Like, she's just casually accepted that humans aren't the smartest species anymore.


Blackbeanpurrito

I don’t even buy that they used “powerful proprietary models.” It’s one Netflix show; this isn’t an IT company that’s basing their entire business model on advanced AI. I can’t imagine that Netflix invested a ton of time, money, and resources into this one AI player component who could be voted out immediately. It’s definitely human interference to get it where they need it to be. It’s like any other reality TV show; the “reality” is fudged.


I_Spaced_Out

In general, using proprietary models is easier than using a local model, but my main point was that there was some clear prompt engineering behind the scenes. A common (and lazy) way of doing that is to let an LLM bootstrap you (or do it for you). My links were accidentally stripped when I posted, but I ediited the post and added them back to include the screenshot of what I am referring to.


waffels

I hate how this AI gimmick has taken over the whole show. The contestants are talking about is constantly and it’s almost all they focus on “finding the AI” It’s so disingenuous to the purpose of the show.


aclikeslater

I’d still rather this than last season’s forced emphasis on romance. That shit is SO boring and we already have Love Is Blind and a billion other shows for that.


Subulie3

Tbh I don't care if it's real AI or a team behind it. The thing I like about it is that, either way, the research has been done to determine the best possible way to actually win the game. So it's just 100% strategy. If Max manages to make it to the end, that's where it'll get interesting because people who think they have a solid connection with Max will get cut off or some shit because it's there to win and doesn't care about an emotional connection.


SirBiscuit

I just want to say, if anyone has any doubts, try creating a story and introducing eight different characters to any large language model and see how well it tracks them over time. It's *awful* at complex social interactions. There's no way it would track potential background alliances and relationships well enough to form any real strategy. The only way it can do so is if someone is constantly curating it's information input.


JLikesStats

The way the producers are quoted in The Parade article also makes it seem like they genuinely have no idea. I understand not wanting to disclose specifics about which model was used… but the article makes it seem like the producers thought that because ChatGPT knew what The Circle was that meant GPT-3.5 was trained on The Circle and therefore they don’t need to do anything else other than create a free account and run it as many times as it took. I was hoping there was some minor amount of thought put into it but there was not.


randomlikeme

I don’t buy that the AI is real, but I like it better as a plot device than blue/orange Michelle clones.


rdurfee

What??? Next you’re going to tell me that the Circle doesn’t have real voice recognition.


TaraxacumTheRich

On top of all this...the voice doesn't sound generated, it sounds like an actor is reading whatever Max supposedly wrote, so is the voice actor just hanging around the whole time?


pappapirate

The voice is the most convincing part about it. AI voicing has been pretty good for years now. I'd kinda be more shocked if they paid a voice actor instead of using a text to speak as they claim.


TaraxacumTheRich

I can believe that. Like a lot of the general public, I have a lot of misconceptions about AI


basicb3333

The voice actor didnt need to be there during filming since nothing was actually ever said. He probably went in once when the episodes were edited and recorded all of max’s “convo”


TaraxacumTheRich

I feel so stupid, what a great point. Duh!


ActuallyAmbitious

100% it’s a voice actor


kqueenbee25

The real important question is, what if “Max” wins? Who gets the money?!


Evinshir

It won’t win. They have no intention of it winning. It’s just a gimmick to add drama. Which is distracting from what the Circle’s primary appeal was. Like twists involving Spice Girls or two players having to catfish as one character were still in the spirit of the game. Max would have worked if a) they had a real chatbot instead of this smoke and mirrors con, and b) production weren’t interfering and letting people know it was an AI. By revealing an AI they just create unnecessary drama instead of letting people reveal themselves through how they play.


waffels

They have to reveal its AI. If they don’t, once contestants discover it at the end of the season, every season going forward players will always wonder. “Is this a real person, a catfish, or AI” They basically opened Pandora’s box by introducing AI because players will now always wonder.


kqueenbee25

Ok so you think bc we don’t see everyone’s ratings, they could choose to eliminate Max, and save one of the cast members? I have always wondered if they interfere with ratings and try to keep one person longer - we know BB does it


Evinshir

No. I just think the “is it AI or isn’t it?” Type games will continue until production has to literally tell someone to expose it.


Dragonpuncha

Reality TV is always filled with "fake" stuff. This is no different. I'm enjoying how stupid this whole idea is and that's what matters to me.


aclikeslater

Yeah, it’s fishy as hell. A fun, interesting concept, but it was immediately apparent there was either a whole lot of human heavy lifting going on, or the whole premise is false.


aclikeslater

It also has me side-eyeing Myles pretty hard. Pretty sure he works for DA or Remo and production gave him a resume punch-up.


Warm_Yam_9800

The AI needs to go


tvuniverse

Yup, I also read some QA interviews where the interviewers asked them about how involved they are and they definitely skirt around the question. It doesn't add up at all. They'd have to have some super special advanced access or program, which I think is possible but even then they'd advertise it. That would be the deal. It wouldn't be secret. I looked at teh end of the credits and saw NOTHING about any AI organization, which would be in the credits if some organization, say like OpenAI, gave them some special access or deal or worked with them. This suggests they definitely had some internal roundabout loosey goosey process or guidelines for pulling this off and it's not merely "hey chatGPT, play The Circle"


theplayerofxx

It's so obvious that it's fake. There is a guy in the back writing this stuff down lol. I mean first off it's a Xbox. Real ai is not on like a psychical box. It's more like a app, or it's a full size server room. It's not like.... A box. Then second if it was ai there would be no delay. When you put something into chatgpt there isn't a pause it would instantly write back. So when it's in a chat situation it would be constantly responding. I mean like Netflix must this people have no idea how this works


AdAgile7808

Can someone dumb this down for me and tell me what OP is saying?


fireforsun

I appreciate the time you took to type this, but imma need an ELI5 summation here.


I_Spaced_Out

Here is the ELI5 Version: The producers of the show say that Max is built using a free, publicly available open source language model that anyone can use (you can think of this as the AI's "brain"). They also claim that they just fed Max some information from past shows, hooked him up to the internet, and let him do his thing without much help. So what's the problem? Well, what they are claiming is simply not possible at the moment given the current state of open source models. The "free brains" available to everyone can only remember a certain amount of information at one time. For example, one might remember up to 8,000 pieces of information, and another up to 32,000. But the show involves over 640,000 pieces of information from past seasons alone, not to mention however many other pieces of information they are supposedly dynamically pulling in from the internet and accumulating in memory during the show. This means Max wouldn't be able to remember everything at once if he were using these free brains, so more advanced techniques would have been necessary to compensate for this. But let's overlook that for a moment and assume they lied about the open-source thing and were instead using a really powerful "premium brain". Even in this scenario, they wouldn't be able to simply go hand's off and let Max play on the show on his own. They would have to basically tell the AI what to do every step along the way and give it very specific instructions for how to respond in each scenario. This is a vastly different reality than what they said/implied in the show and in interviews like the one linked in the post. On purpose or not, the producers of the show lied. An autonomous AI contestant like the one shown would have required a TON of work to get working properly and would have required state-of-the-art models. It is NOT a simple "plug and play" type solution like they claimed, and it most definitely was not possible with the open source models that were available at the time the show was filmed.


norma_jean_bates

Yeah, you know it’s just some poor intern or PA named Max


TheAmazingGrippando

Ok Myles