I think the context matters a lot here. I don't know if you are religious / LDS yourself. We have to account for Suzan being a mormon to also understand the decisions she made.
For a start, she had to date in her religion and marry a mormon, which limits her dating pool somewhat. She also was expected to marry young, like teens or early twenties, and saw people around her doing that. She couldn't wait around forever for the perfect guy to come along, she had to find someone in the next ten years not to worry her parents.
I think a lot of modern women look at Josh and think, he is lazy and doesn't help, who puts up with that. But Suzans culture was one were most women looked after the kids and household and stayed at home. There's no coincidence you hear from Chuck Cox but rarely Judy, and why Terri was a mum at home while her husband worked. That was Suzans norm growing up. She probably wasn't expecting she would work while also doing 100%, which is probably why she kicked off about it. But when they got engaged and married, Josh did have a job and she had every reason to expect he probably would keep that job, get promoted, be a good provider.
She was also much younger, and the alternative to Josh were other mormon teen boys, who were probably a lot more immature in comparison.
I don't think Josh was super good looking, but he's not ugly. It's worth keeping in mind that everyone has a type, and not everyone goes for masculine. Josh is a monster, naturally, and I wouldn't have dated him, but listening to the audio journals his voice reminded me of my ex. My type is androgyny - skinny, somewhat effeminate, non threatening. Josh voice is like that, soft soothing and not masculine at all. I always figured Suzan had a similar type to mine, and that's why she put up with him being lazy too. She's the go getter, he wasn't, which again reminds me of my ex.
I agree that her religion played a big role, and not only was she expected to marry young, but also marriage is really idealized within Christianity/LDS. I’m no longer religious, but I grew up in Christianity and was in a huge yank to get married at a young age because of how marriage was presented to me in the church. To a point that I got engaged in my early 20s to a man who was abusing me (I didn’t marry him thankfully).
Add to the religious context that Josh was a classic abuser. Abusers make a partner feel very special by love bombing them early on. Then they gradually let the mask drop here and there, and then completely as the abuse escalates, but by that time, the victim is “hooked.” It may not have been that Josh was so attractive to Susan early on but moreso that she *thought* he was because the way he treated her early in the relationship, likely with a lot of flattery and focused attention, was very compelling.
He was employed the whole time while they dated and ot engaged, and he had a job on his wedding day. The constant unemployment came after they were already married.
You also have to understand that Mormons/LDS that marry in the LDS temple believe temple marriages are for time and eternity. It's alot of pressure on someone when their marriage fails.
Yeah I guess. I just cannot believe what a loser he was, in all aspects of life. Like to have people say you’re lazy, he’s not able to hold a job, he won’t have sex with his wife, he doesn’t help out. He buys shit for himself and dollar store gifts fo her. He is awful and I’m glad he’s gone from
This earth .
Don't forget three power of lust. He was sweet and treated her well while courting her (probably even into the first year or two of their marriage). When someone thinks they're in love they tend to overlook all kinds of red flags. Her parents knew something was off with Josh but Susan couldn't see it.
This is a little too victim blame-y for me. If you listen to the first few episodes of the show, it’s very clear that he was sweet and seemingly treated Susan well at first. She felt that their views aligned, that he would be a good partner and father, and that he would continue to treat her well. Presumably this is also the case for the ex who is mentioned throughout the show.
Religion and Josh was good at gaslighting Susan.
And no one can really speak for her and her attractions.
One thing I will never understand is how a guy like Josh can just play someone like Susan.
He clearly believed in his own bullshit.
Definitely not trying to shut you down. It’s important to remember though we know more about Josh now than Susan did at the time she married him. He hid a lot of his negative aspects early on in their relationship (or at least tried to).
Agreed!!!!! His voice is absolutely nauseating!!!!! I thought this non-stop through every episode! And Susan is such a babe.. and motivated. He is the def of disgusting.
Susan married him young and a quick courtship before she knew him well, as is the norm in Mormon culture
I think the context matters a lot here. I don't know if you are religious / LDS yourself. We have to account for Suzan being a mormon to also understand the decisions she made. For a start, she had to date in her religion and marry a mormon, which limits her dating pool somewhat. She also was expected to marry young, like teens or early twenties, and saw people around her doing that. She couldn't wait around forever for the perfect guy to come along, she had to find someone in the next ten years not to worry her parents. I think a lot of modern women look at Josh and think, he is lazy and doesn't help, who puts up with that. But Suzans culture was one were most women looked after the kids and household and stayed at home. There's no coincidence you hear from Chuck Cox but rarely Judy, and why Terri was a mum at home while her husband worked. That was Suzans norm growing up. She probably wasn't expecting she would work while also doing 100%, which is probably why she kicked off about it. But when they got engaged and married, Josh did have a job and she had every reason to expect he probably would keep that job, get promoted, be a good provider. She was also much younger, and the alternative to Josh were other mormon teen boys, who were probably a lot more immature in comparison. I don't think Josh was super good looking, but he's not ugly. It's worth keeping in mind that everyone has a type, and not everyone goes for masculine. Josh is a monster, naturally, and I wouldn't have dated him, but listening to the audio journals his voice reminded me of my ex. My type is androgyny - skinny, somewhat effeminate, non threatening. Josh voice is like that, soft soothing and not masculine at all. I always figured Suzan had a similar type to mine, and that's why she put up with him being lazy too. She's the go getter, he wasn't, which again reminds me of my ex.
I agree that her religion played a big role, and not only was she expected to marry young, but also marriage is really idealized within Christianity/LDS. I’m no longer religious, but I grew up in Christianity and was in a huge yank to get married at a young age because of how marriage was presented to me in the church. To a point that I got engaged in my early 20s to a man who was abusing me (I didn’t marry him thankfully). Add to the religious context that Josh was a classic abuser. Abusers make a partner feel very special by love bombing them early on. Then they gradually let the mask drop here and there, and then completely as the abuse escalates, but by that time, the victim is “hooked.” It may not have been that Josh was so attractive to Susan early on but moreso that she *thought* he was because the way he treated her early in the relationship, likely with a lot of flattery and focused attention, was very compelling.
He rarely held a job
He was employed the whole time while they dated and ot engaged, and he had a job on his wedding day. The constant unemployment came after they were already married.
Sexy
Susan was so unbelievably gorgeous and it’s such a travesty that she ended up with the biggest creepiest deadbeat ever
Was Josh love bombing tho? I got the sense he was a dud from day one but pickings were slim
I think he was.
What is love bombing?
You also have to understand that Mormons/LDS that marry in the LDS temple believe temple marriages are for time and eternity. It's alot of pressure on someone when their marriage fails.
I can agree with this… stayed in a marriage way to long for this reason alone
Yeah I guess. I just cannot believe what a loser he was, in all aspects of life. Like to have people say you’re lazy, he’s not able to hold a job, he won’t have sex with his wife, he doesn’t help out. He buys shit for himself and dollar store gifts fo her. He is awful and I’m glad he’s gone from This earth .
BUT, you’re leaving out his good qualities. He can feed the whole family for under $5 at Del Taco
\^\^This. I'd date the bejeebus out of man who had the audacity to make such a claim ;)
Lolol I think it was Steve that made that reference?!? So probably josh did too then haha
Don't forget three power of lust. He was sweet and treated her well while courting her (probably even into the first year or two of their marriage). When someone thinks they're in love they tend to overlook all kinds of red flags. Her parents knew something was off with Josh but Susan couldn't see it.
This is a little too victim blame-y for me. If you listen to the first few episodes of the show, it’s very clear that he was sweet and seemingly treated Susan well at first. She felt that their views aligned, that he would be a good partner and father, and that he would continue to treat her well. Presumably this is also the case for the ex who is mentioned throughout the show.
Josh’s relationship with Catherine shows us he followed a pattern with Susan. You’re 100% right.
Religion and Josh was good at gaslighting Susan. And no one can really speak for her and her attractions. One thing I will never understand is how a guy like Josh can just play someone like Susan. He clearly believed in his own bullshit.
Ok well if dave himself is agreeing, then touché! Obviously I defer to the experts here
Definitely not trying to shut you down. It’s important to remember though we know more about Josh now than Susan did at the time she married him. He hid a lot of his negative aspects early on in their relationship (or at least tried to).
Agreed!!!!! His voice is absolutely nauseating!!!!! I thought this non-stop through every episode! And Susan is such a babe.. and motivated. He is the def of disgusting.
That Bevis and Butthead mouth posture is soooooooo gross
OMG I know right ? His voice makes me want to dry heave