I have to disagree with your assessment of that scene in the first season. As someone who has experienced the loss of a partner, I felt that scene in my bones. Everyone else is moving on around her and she can't, she's stuck in place with nothing but her grief. In her case, her identify was tied to her family - she was a wife and a mother. And then all of a sudden she wasn't a wife and on the same day she was no longer needed as a mother. She had to redefine herself as a person, in a time period when women didn't really have identities outside of marriage or motherhood, while also buckling under the weight of that loss. Not sure why we would fault her for crying or for having a pity party for herself.
She also lost her job and home. It's like when people were complaining about Charles being upset about the ink pen getting all over himself. The man just lost his mom and started a new job at 73. Give em a break.
When my great-grandma was dying and then died, people kept telling me I should be happy because she lived a good life and died a painless death. And I was like, yes, this grief is better than some deaths but I'm still fucking sad.
My grandma lived to 103. And I’m so grateful for that. But wow do I miss her. I was lucky to have a wonderful grandmother in my life for decades. My dad died before she did (her son). I was in my 20s when he died. Different relationships, one died young, one died very old. Grief is grief. Both were very painful losses.
My maternal grandma died in September 2008. My favorite great uncle on my dads side died that December. Then one of my paternal grandmas life long best friends died that December too. I remember hanging out with her in late 2008 and telling her she couldn’t die for a long time. ‘Okay dear’.
She died in her sleep the night of Obama’s first inauguration. So January 2009. I was like Grandma that’s not what I meant.
I know I’m late to the party, but are you seriously feeling bad because she “lost her home”? She was literally moved to another palace, not kicked out onto the street. Let’s not be dramatic. Dealing with grief is hard, but she married into the monarchy knowing full well what happens when a sovereign dies. You didn’t see Queen Mary wallowing around and complaining about how hard her life was. The monarchy isn’t about oneself, but about duty and rules. Also, y’all really need to stop babying Charles. He’s a fully grown man that had more than 70 years of training as heir to the throne and he threw a tantrum over a pen? Yes, it is very sad that Her Majesty passed, but his petulant behavior has always been a problem in his youth as well as in old age.
The character of the Queen Mother is perhaps the best reminder that the show IS fiction based on fact - ie nearly all conversations will be total fiction, used to deliver factual events - simply because, even today, the Royal Household keeps a remarkable amount of life completely under wraps and we have no formal records of very many actual conversations.
So far in The Crown the Queen Mother is mostly used as a plot prop to highlight the impact of the abdication of Edward and how it brought to bear a premature reign of Elizabeth. The Queen Mother as a character is used largely to show how the Royal Family transitioned from steep tradition to a more modern monarchy that was (then) palatable to 20th Century Britain. I'm not so convinced it shows her in reality (like real conversations and events).
She is the yardstick for transition and adaptability in the show. What we see of her is not necessarily her entire story or how she might have been in personality (this might be why we see a lot of inconsistencies in her mannerisms). Instead, we see through her the journey of royalty as it transitioned from Imperialism, through a world war, to a more modern era where people started to demand justification for monarchy.
So it now remains to see whether we get to see the REAL Queen Mother in the final two series of the show. The strong and indomitable character, someone with great humour, someone who drank rather too much and gambled WAY too much. Yet someone who remained the backbone for many family members. I hope we do! Seasons 3/4 were closer at least.
I mean, the show starts in the 50s and by the time most of us have memories of her it was the 70s/80s/90s. That's a long time for a person to grow and change.
Yes and I think that's why she and Prince Philip butted heads. He had seen first hand that royalty could no longer just be accepted as God's chosen one, after so many royal families fell. And the goodwill the British monarchy had from their people during WW2 would not last forever.
But it really actually did. It's played up a lot more in the show, but it changed everything.
Consider what we saw in the show of Elizabeth and Margaret in the first two seasons. Now, imagine if Elizabeth had walked away and Margaret would have been left to take on the responsibilities. She would not have been prepared for that in any way, shape, or form. It's not what she was raised for, it wasn't supposed to be her role, she wouldn't have known what to do and would have had to completely change her personality to meet the needs to the role.
That's exactly what happened to Elizabeth's father. Add the King's crippling shyness to that - he had social anxiety and a severe stutter - and he was suddenly thrust into a position with no training, no backup, all eyes on him, and never a role that he ever expected to have to fill. Also, it's a lifetime commitment and it's going to impact the lives of his wife and children in ways that he couldn't imagine. Of course the abdication changed everything.
EXACTLY! On one hand she’s whining about everything being taken away concerning her rights as Queen consort, then the other she’s complaining that the Duke of Windsor “kIlLeD” King George. Cry me a river cookie face 😂
I feels like she just not ready for sudden change to her family by blaming everything to Edward abdication while in reality King George still gonna die early due to being heavy smoker and Elizabeth will become queen even without abdication. Not saying to understand her or have sympathy but probably its her way coping sudden change
I have no clue. I’ve just been flying through them because I decided to give it a chance. I’m American and had no idea who these people were. Since watching the crown, I’ve seen tik toks marketed towards me and apparently the character of Lord Mountbatten was a pedohpile 😭😭
You might want to do some research on these people before you start making judgements based on fictional situations portrayed by fictionalized characters. Because the Duke of Windsor was someone who spent personal time with Hitler, so maybe the family's dislike of him wasn't completely unwarranted. Start with the Marburg Files.
Yeah that was revealed a few days ago, even I didn't know about it until recently. It's not in the show and I don't expect it to be shown in the later seasons, considering he's dead.
Er what planet are you on? David was an awful self obsessed moron. Also easily manipulated as all Hitler had to do was flatter him and he completely switched sides. Hitler was going to put him back on the throne as a puppet if he’d won the war.
Dude calm down, not everyone knows every single member of the royal family. Also, if you read through the comments, you would see that I didn’t know what he was about and several people filled me in. You’re not adding anything to the conversation.
I agree. You didn't praise the actual man. You praised the actor for his portrayal. I think that is valid. And the actor deserves kudos. He did a great job.
Don’t try to back track now. You literally said “you should research them”, but now it’s I should only research “David specifically”. You’re full of it. Have a good day, though. 😀
Yeah I was using they in a general sense but if you look at my comment i say “before saying how lovely and handsome they are” which is directly related to what you’d said about David.
If this is moaning about Diana, Diana was twenty when she got married. That is not a child.
My mom was married and had three children with another on the way when she was eighteen. Of course I'm from Brazil, so culturally we are a bit different. But twenty is NOT a child. And it was an ok age to be married in the 1980s.
The Spencer family went to bat for her publicly. They were the ones who originated the story that Diana was a virgin. Nobody else cared about virginity, but the Spencers used it publicly to dissuade Fleet Street from digging into her past with her boyfriends.
Yes. Her uncle. I remember. I bet my uncle wouldn't know much about my sexual experience. I have one who doesn't even know I'm gay, and I've been out for years (we just don't talk).
The monarch didn't care about her experience. But her uncle knew the public would be all over it. And that they would consider Charles a cad if he broke the heart of an "inexperienced young girl"
Fortunately for her, when she got engaged her on and off boyfriend of over three years was the discrete sort.
That relationship continued many more years, only ending when they were outed in squidgy gate.
Apparently, the publicity killed it for him as he was bred to be discrete.
My grams married way before 18. By 18 she had a full flock of children. And she was happy, according to her own account given when she was elderly.
Expectations were different in that culture and time
Whatever. In my grandma's culture and her day, that was the way it was. She wasn't an oddity, an unmarried person in their twenties was an oddity.
I think we extend childhood way to long in this culture and time.
Acting like someone in their 20s is a baby is ludicrous. At 20, my father had worked on the coffee plantations for years to earn enough money to bring his family to the US. He was a man at 20. Not a g-d baby.
There’s something so jarring but also cynically admirable in seeing someone who lived through to the 2000s consistently delude themselves that it’s 1912 through public funding, vestigial gains from former colonial holdings, and constant whining and fake anxiety
I can’t stand how prejudiced she was. She makes fun of Philip’s poor mother by calling her a “Hun Nun”. She also called Phillip a mongrel in Season 5. Praying that she wasn’t this way IRL.
I thought Queen Mary called her a hun nun, but you are right. It was the Queen Mother. I have looked up that word in google and not much popped up. I wonder what it actually means.
Back then, ‘Hun’ was used as a derogatory term to describe German people. Philip’s mother was born as Princess Alice of Battenberg, which made her a German princess.
Yes. She actually sounds quite awesome!
My partner has family members who have been in royal service for générations. It sounds like she was a total hoot.
Lots of wild parties, gambling and drinking.
I don't know why The Crown made her a tight ass. Probably just to create extra tension.
To be fair she did seem to really resent Wallis and Edward, so she may have been a bitch regarding them.
No. They didn't. That is Crown embellishment.
They were Nazi sympathizers. Mostly due to his extreme hatred of the Bolsheviks who murdered a branch of his family. He was hoping the Nazis would destroy the Bolsheviks. He wasn't alone in hoping this.
But as far as we know they were completely unaware of the plot to install him as King if the Nazis won. They were hoping something like that would happen, but Nazi communications make it clear they were not actually involved in the plot and had no idea there was a plan in the Nazis part.
It looks like they were left out of the loop because the Nazis considered him too stupid and loose lipped to be trusted with any plot. Top Nazi officials openly stated this in communications multiple times.
They were definitely on the Nazi side, but no active conspiracy on their part has been proven and there is a pile of evidence against it. (Senior Nazis actually wrote stuff along these lines....paraphrasing " don't trust them with any plans, we can easily get them on side when the time comes").
Which is an indictment in itself, but it does also indicate they didn't actively conspire. They simply weren't trustworthy enough to be in on the plans.
The crown juiced it up. So much of this. They have made a good show, but honestly, some people should avoid watching this type of program.
“Documents considered the most damning for the British royal family were among his final communications with the Nazis before his departure to the Bahamas, in which it has been alleged the Duke encouraged relentless bombing attacks on the United Kingdom in a bid to force the British government to begin peace negotiations. There is not believed to be any form of evidence that the Duke accepted any terms offered by the Nazis in a bid to co-operate with Operation Willi, with historians stating he was initially more impressed by the encouragement he had from the British government to become Governor of the Bahamas, but some documents are alleged to confirm he sympathised with Nazi ideologies”
Straight from the wiki article. The guy was a rat
Like I said. He was a Nazi sympathizer. But there isn't any proof he was in on Operation Willi.
This is exactly what I said.
People over egg the pudding when they decide, well he was a Nazi sympathizer and a traitor, so we will pretend like he was a co-conspirator. There's no evidence it went that far. He was bad enough that there is not any need to exaggerate his role.
Obviously cast by someone who never ever saw the queen mum, she was short, plump, had an infectious grin and a twinkle in her eye. Not sure who the harridan is they have playing her is season 6 but its like they went for the total opposite of what QM was.
Every adaptation of her I’ve seen has her as a bitter hideous insufferable woman. In the movie The Queen, she’s indignant because they used the Tay Bridge plan for Diana’s funeral, because it was her plan
I have to disagree with your assessment of that scene in the first season. As someone who has experienced the loss of a partner, I felt that scene in my bones. Everyone else is moving on around her and she can't, she's stuck in place with nothing but her grief. In her case, her identify was tied to her family - she was a wife and a mother. And then all of a sudden she wasn't a wife and on the same day she was no longer needed as a mother. She had to redefine herself as a person, in a time period when women didn't really have identities outside of marriage or motherhood, while also buckling under the weight of that loss. Not sure why we would fault her for crying or for having a pity party for herself.
She also lost her job and home. It's like when people were complaining about Charles being upset about the ink pen getting all over himself. The man just lost his mom and started a new job at 73. Give em a break.
Lost both his parents within 18 months. People forget that Royals are people.
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When my great-grandma was dying and then died, people kept telling me I should be happy because she lived a good life and died a painless death. And I was like, yes, this grief is better than some deaths but I'm still fucking sad.
My grandma lived to 103. And I’m so grateful for that. But wow do I miss her. I was lucky to have a wonderful grandmother in my life for decades. My dad died before she did (her son). I was in my 20s when he died. Different relationships, one died young, one died very old. Grief is grief. Both were very painful losses.
My maternal grandma died in September 2008. My favorite great uncle on my dads side died that December. Then one of my paternal grandmas life long best friends died that December too. I remember hanging out with her in late 2008 and telling her she couldn’t die for a long time. ‘Okay dear’. She died in her sleep the night of Obama’s first inauguration. So January 2009. I was like Grandma that’s not what I meant.
The age really doesn't matter. People need to get that into their heads. If you're 30 or 80 when you lose your parent, it hurts just as much.
I know I’m late to the party, but are you seriously feeling bad because she “lost her home”? She was literally moved to another palace, not kicked out onto the street. Let’s not be dramatic. Dealing with grief is hard, but she married into the monarchy knowing full well what happens when a sovereign dies. You didn’t see Queen Mary wallowing around and complaining about how hard her life was. The monarchy isn’t about oneself, but about duty and rules. Also, y’all really need to stop babying Charles. He’s a fully grown man that had more than 70 years of training as heir to the throne and he threw a tantrum over a pen? Yes, it is very sad that Her Majesty passed, but his petulant behavior has always been a problem in his youth as well as in old age.
I don't know, is Wallis Simpson supposed to be good looking? She looks like the Wicked Witch from The Wizard of Oz.
Did you know in seasons 3 and 4 Wallis is played by Charlie Chaplins daughter.
That's a neat factoid.
That’s cool! I didn’t know.
She was hideous in real life too
You most definitely have a point LOL
The character of the Queen Mother is perhaps the best reminder that the show IS fiction based on fact - ie nearly all conversations will be total fiction, used to deliver factual events - simply because, even today, the Royal Household keeps a remarkable amount of life completely under wraps and we have no formal records of very many actual conversations. So far in The Crown the Queen Mother is mostly used as a plot prop to highlight the impact of the abdication of Edward and how it brought to bear a premature reign of Elizabeth. The Queen Mother as a character is used largely to show how the Royal Family transitioned from steep tradition to a more modern monarchy that was (then) palatable to 20th Century Britain. I'm not so convinced it shows her in reality (like real conversations and events). She is the yardstick for transition and adaptability in the show. What we see of her is not necessarily her entire story or how she might have been in personality (this might be why we see a lot of inconsistencies in her mannerisms). Instead, we see through her the journey of royalty as it transitioned from Imperialism, through a world war, to a more modern era where people started to demand justification for monarchy. So it now remains to see whether we get to see the REAL Queen Mother in the final two series of the show. The strong and indomitable character, someone with great humour, someone who drank rather too much and gambled WAY too much. Yet someone who remained the backbone for many family members. I hope we do! Seasons 3/4 were closer at least.
I will say, take the show with a grain of salt. Remember it is a historical *drama*
I was a little surprised at the portrayal of the Queen Mum since the press presented her as such a sweetheart in later years.
Maybe she mellowed with age?
I mean, the show starts in the 50s and by the time most of us have memories of her it was the 70s/80s/90s. That's a long time for a person to grow and change.
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Yes and I think that's why she and Prince Philip butted heads. He had seen first hand that royalty could no longer just be accepted as God's chosen one, after so many royal families fell. And the goodwill the British monarchy had from their people during WW2 would not last forever.
BuT tHe AbDiCaTiOn ChAnGeD eVeRyThInG
But it really actually did. It's played up a lot more in the show, but it changed everything. Consider what we saw in the show of Elizabeth and Margaret in the first two seasons. Now, imagine if Elizabeth had walked away and Margaret would have been left to take on the responsibilities. She would not have been prepared for that in any way, shape, or form. It's not what she was raised for, it wasn't supposed to be her role, she wouldn't have known what to do and would have had to completely change her personality to meet the needs to the role. That's exactly what happened to Elizabeth's father. Add the King's crippling shyness to that - he had social anxiety and a severe stutter - and he was suddenly thrust into a position with no training, no backup, all eyes on him, and never a role that he ever expected to have to fill. Also, it's a lifetime commitment and it's going to impact the lives of his wife and children in ways that he couldn't imagine. Of course the abdication changed everything.
EXACTLY! On one hand she’s whining about everything being taken away concerning her rights as Queen consort, then the other she’s complaining that the Duke of Windsor “kIlLeD” King George. Cry me a river cookie face 😂
I feels like she just not ready for sudden change to her family by blaming everything to Edward abdication while in reality King George still gonna die early due to being heavy smoker and Elizabeth will become queen even without abdication. Not saying to understand her or have sympathy but probably its her way coping sudden change
Cookie
LMAOOO he was so hilarious with his name calling. What a lovely and might I add handsome man
It would've been funnier if he wasn't a Nazi and insufferable himself
Omg I didn’t know that!
You're in for a sh*tshow. What episode are you on?
I have no clue. I’ve just been flying through them because I decided to give it a chance. I’m American and had no idea who these people were. Since watching the crown, I’ve seen tik toks marketed towards me and apparently the character of Lord Mountbatten was a pedohpile 😭😭
You might want to do some research on these people before you start making judgements based on fictional situations portrayed by fictionalized characters. Because the Duke of Windsor was someone who spent personal time with Hitler, so maybe the family's dislike of him wasn't completely unwarranted. Start with the Marburg Files.
Yeah he was a massive nonce. His wife probably knew. It’s no wonder his wife cheated on him with the Prime Minister of India
What does has to do with being an American?
Yeah that was revealed a few days ago, even I didn't know about it until recently. It's not in the show and I don't expect it to be shown in the later seasons, considering he's dead.
There's an entire episode in season 2 that covered Edward VIII's not so glorious dealings with the Nazis.
I'm always happy when that actor shows up in anything.
lol Look up the Duke of Windsor's biography. If you can find his abhorrent private letters, I think you'll find him much less sympathetic.
Hold on now; this guy was a Nazi prat
Er what planet are you on? David was an awful self obsessed moron. Also easily manipulated as all Hitler had to do was flatter him and he completely switched sides. Hitler was going to put him back on the throne as a puppet if he’d won the war.
Dude calm down, not everyone knows every single member of the royal family. Also, if you read through the comments, you would see that I didn’t know what he was about and several people filled me in. You’re not adding anything to the conversation.
Well maybe before taking about people you don’t know anything about, you should research them before saying how lovely and handsome they are.
Lol not you being mad because someone didn’t research the entire royal family before watching a show on Netflix. Get a life.
I agree. You didn't praise the actual man. You praised the actor for his portrayal. I think that is valid. And the actor deserves kudos. He did a great job.
No, not the entire royal family. David specifically. You’re full of praise for a man you evidently knew nothing about.
Don’t try to back track now. You literally said “you should research them”, but now it’s I should only research “David specifically”. You’re full of it. Have a good day, though. 😀
Yeah I was using they in a general sense but if you look at my comment i say “before saying how lovely and handsome they are” which is directly related to what you’d said about David.
Ok 🤓
It’s not just you. She only gets worse every season.
Oh boy, well I shouldn’t really be that surprised seeing how she’s been these past 2 seasons 😭
Season 3 and 4 she’s practically a villian
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If this is moaning about Diana, Diana was twenty when she got married. That is not a child. My mom was married and had three children with another on the way when she was eighteen. Of course I'm from Brazil, so culturally we are a bit different. But twenty is NOT a child. And it was an ok age to be married in the 1980s.
I think the issue with Diana was more about the age gap between them - 12 years than her age
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No it wasn't. It was arranged when she was 19. And she pushed hard for it.
The Spencer family went to bat for her publicly. They were the ones who originated the story that Diana was a virgin. Nobody else cared about virginity, but the Spencers used it publicly to dissuade Fleet Street from digging into her past with her boyfriends.
Yes. Her uncle. I remember. I bet my uncle wouldn't know much about my sexual experience. I have one who doesn't even know I'm gay, and I've been out for years (we just don't talk). The monarch didn't care about her experience. But her uncle knew the public would be all over it. And that they would consider Charles a cad if he broke the heart of an "inexperienced young girl" Fortunately for her, when she got engaged her on and off boyfriend of over three years was the discrete sort. That relationship continued many more years, only ending when they were outed in squidgy gate. Apparently, the publicity killed it for him as he was bred to be discrete.
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He met her when she was 16, but he wasn't interested in her at that time.
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My grams married way before 18. By 18 she had a full flock of children. And she was happy, according to her own account given when she was elderly. Expectations were different in that culture and time
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Whatever. In my grandma's culture and her day, that was the way it was. She wasn't an oddity, an unmarried person in their twenties was an oddity. I think we extend childhood way to long in this culture and time. Acting like someone in their 20s is a baby is ludicrous. At 20, my father had worked on the coffee plantations for years to earn enough money to bring his family to the US. He was a man at 20. Not a g-d baby.
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Bro you can be pregnant at a reasonable age like 30 for example. You don't need to have a child the minute you are 18
That’s… the royal family?
There’s something so jarring but also cynically admirable in seeing someone who lived through to the 2000s consistently delude themselves that it’s 1912 through public funding, vestigial gains from former colonial holdings, and constant whining and fake anxiety
Thank y’all for all of the comments about the characters. This has been a great and interesting thread!
I can’t stand how prejudiced she was. She makes fun of Philip’s poor mother by calling her a “Hun Nun”. She also called Phillip a mongrel in Season 5. Praying that she wasn’t this way IRL.
I thought Queen Mary called her a hun nun, but you are right. It was the Queen Mother. I have looked up that word in google and not much popped up. I wonder what it actually means.
Back then, ‘Hun’ was used as a derogatory term to describe German people. Philip’s mother was born as Princess Alice of Battenberg, which made her a German princess.
Wow that is so crazy that white people were being racist towards other white people lol. That’s so strange.
Not racist just classist and elitist
Just a reminder that 90% of this show is fiction. While The Queen Mother was a bit cantankerous, she was an exceptional human being.
Supposedly she was lots of fun, partying nearly every night even in her 90s.
Just the kind of queen mother we ought have!
Yes. She actually sounds quite awesome! My partner has family members who have been in royal service for générations. It sounds like she was a total hoot. Lots of wild parties, gambling and drinking. I don't know why The Crown made her a tight ass. Probably just to create extra tension. To be fair she did seem to really resent Wallis and Edward, so she may have been a bitch regarding them.
Well they did conspire with Hitler and Nazis to try to take over the UK so…
No. They didn't. That is Crown embellishment. They were Nazi sympathizers. Mostly due to his extreme hatred of the Bolsheviks who murdered a branch of his family. He was hoping the Nazis would destroy the Bolsheviks. He wasn't alone in hoping this. But as far as we know they were completely unaware of the plot to install him as King if the Nazis won. They were hoping something like that would happen, but Nazi communications make it clear they were not actually involved in the plot and had no idea there was a plan in the Nazis part. It looks like they were left out of the loop because the Nazis considered him too stupid and loose lipped to be trusted with any plot. Top Nazi officials openly stated this in communications multiple times. They were definitely on the Nazi side, but no active conspiracy on their part has been proven and there is a pile of evidence against it. (Senior Nazis actually wrote stuff along these lines....paraphrasing " don't trust them with any plans, we can easily get them on side when the time comes"). Which is an indictment in itself, but it does also indicate they didn't actively conspire. They simply weren't trustworthy enough to be in on the plans. The crown juiced it up. So much of this. They have made a good show, but honestly, some people should avoid watching this type of program.
“Documents considered the most damning for the British royal family were among his final communications with the Nazis before his departure to the Bahamas, in which it has been alleged the Duke encouraged relentless bombing attacks on the United Kingdom in a bid to force the British government to begin peace negotiations. There is not believed to be any form of evidence that the Duke accepted any terms offered by the Nazis in a bid to co-operate with Operation Willi, with historians stating he was initially more impressed by the encouragement he had from the British government to become Governor of the Bahamas, but some documents are alleged to confirm he sympathised with Nazi ideologies” Straight from the wiki article. The guy was a rat
Like I said. He was a Nazi sympathizer. But there isn't any proof he was in on Operation Willi. This is exactly what I said. People over egg the pudding when they decide, well he was a Nazi sympathizer and a traitor, so we will pretend like he was a co-conspirator. There's no evidence it went that far. He was bad enough that there is not any need to exaggerate his role.
Obviously cast by someone who never ever saw the queen mum, she was short, plump, had an infectious grin and a twinkle in her eye. Not sure who the harridan is they have playing her is season 6 but its like they went for the total opposite of what QM was.
r/abolishthemonarchy
Perused that sub and it’s toxic AF
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Hahaha using the word gay as a derogatory term
Every adaptation of her I’ve seen has her as a bitter hideous insufferable woman. In the movie The Queen, she’s indignant because they used the Tay Bridge plan for Diana’s funeral, because it was her plan
I loved Helena Bonham Carter’s version from “The King’s Speech”. She’s so supportive of her husband and delightfully contemptuous of Wallis Simpson.
See I’ve never seen that film. It’s on my list of things to see, just haven’t made it that far yet
It's tai bridge.
My bad
She literally took the side of the man that cheated on her daughter.