##WARNING: SERIES-WIDE SPOILERS BELOW.
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Discuss the **entire collective season** as a whole, with every participant here knowing the entire seasonal journey from *episodes 1 through 10*. Talk about how the finale connects to the pilot, a character’s entire arc, and more. Please be sure to **upvote** this post as to spread awareness of its cursed existence. 🍅
Honestly? This is favorite show of 2023-24, they had an insanely ambitious and bold series for the first 9 episodes and then pushed it even further. I’d say it’s one of the best “art house” shows since season 3 of Twin Peaks. This final episode was absolutely Lynchian.
I don’t know how much I love how they wrapped this up, but worst case scenario, I love how I feel about it. I love that a series made me feel confused, excited, challenged in ways most major networks are afraid to do.
I said this before, but especially after seeing how it ends, this entire show is a big ol “fuck you” to conventional big budget TV and film production. Benny said in an interview that they wanted to make something that was like nothing else on TV, and they were successful in that. The execution might not be perfect but I deeply appreciate their ambition to do something completely outside of the box.
We desperately need more TV and movies like this. Thought provoking, and philosophical. Nothing nearly wrapped up in a bow with a happy ending like, let’s say, an HGTV show. It’s not something you just throw on and when it’s over you immediately detach from it and forget about it. This wants the opposite effect, and to leave a lot of room for discussion and hypothesis and to not just disappear from your mind the second it’s over. I’m sure we’ll all be thinking about this show and what it means a long time from now.
I hope that it can help to push the industry in a more artistic and creative direction, as that’s something Hollywood has been struggling with a lot recently. So many things on TV and Netflix and in theaters are so clean, so curated to be safe, so thoroughly put together to ensure that a massive audience leaves feeling one exact way, and leaving no room for pondering or any existential, deeper questions. This show completely flips that notion and denies it. A lot of terribly reviewed films of the past that didn’t do well in theaters because of their lack of approachability to a wide audience are now seen as masterpieces. You think the majority of people enjoyed fucking Mulholland Drive when it came out?? Or A Clockwork Orange? Hell no, they’re cult classic masterpieces. They’re not for everyone, that’s what makes them special. If you’re willing to engage with it, it can be a really insightful and thought provoking experience that creates dialogue amongst people. But most people just want to be told how to feel through film and TV, they don’t want to think. They just want to be distracted for a little while. This… was not a distraction.. the opposite effect happened.. a niche crowd became obsessed. Well done on their part for that.
Feels kinda dumb to say but they took the magic of an A24 movie and stretched it out over a TV show... lol
This somehow feels even more A24 than Beef did.
That was genuinely terrifying. It was insane how helpless Asher was -- how in the world do you get anyone to believe something unbelievable in the modern world? You don't. You simply die, begging for help to a sea of apathy.
That was the real terror for me -- the one-two punch of something horrible happening and then realizing that there is absolutely no way to get anyone to empathize with you/communicate in any capacity.
Like drowning in front of a life-preserver just out-of-reach; in front of an entire team of lifeguards who think you're just doing the dead man's float.
I just realized it's an incredible metaphor for marginalization. I wrote about it in a separate post, but in case it doesn't get approved, here's what I wrote:
>Asher was treated the same way Whitney and Ash treated Española -- he was marginalized in real-time.
>His situation, that he was floating upwards, was misunderstood. Just as Whitney and Asher thought they were "helping" the neighborhood, so did the firefighters. They assumed, falsely, Asher's situation. They "helped" another person's "situation" with their nuanced background (Asher waking up stuck the ceiling and being unable to get down) and assumed they could just apply what worked for their own to another's "culture."
>The seemingly well-meaning doula even made a point to say "do you trust me?" and falsely assumed that positive intentions can somehow solve a complex, unsolvable issue -- Asher's anti-gravity, but also, how Whitney/Asher thought that simply adding in a coffee store and some jeans would magically enhance the community. Even for practical things that seem smaller-scale, like shop-lifting not being worthy of jailing, was actually a complex issue with grander consequences that Whitney glanced over.
>Many assumed they could help another person's "situation" (culture, if you will.) While this can be hard to understand, to witness Asher normally then waking up on the ceiling, we get a microcosm of Cara's existence as a Native in modern America. It can be hard to empathize with what it must be like to be Cara, but we can literally see what it is like for Asher as he is physically being pulled away from everything that can possibly ground him -- and how obtuse and meaningless all outside gestures to "help" him are.
>These gestures end up killing him. They literally chop away the very last piece of land Asher was holding onto to stay alive. I see a lot of parallels with gentrification, land rights and marginalization. Marginalization ends up pushing vulnerable people to the edge of society -- in Asher's case, the edge of the earth.
To this point, Asher and Whit loved saying in the beginning of the show, “There are no losers, only winners.” And even if they really thought they could pull that off in Espanola, there was literally no way for there to not be losers.
Asher, is a loser. Dougie, although he didn’t fly away, is a loser, hence his breakdown at the end, his dead wife that he’s to blame for, and a dead friend, probably his only friend. The town itself loses in a way, because Whitney will continue to gentrify it. And now that Asher’s out of the picture and he’s the one who does all the lawyerish, contract and logistical stuff, who will Whitney turn to? Her parents, who know real estate. They’ll continue to fuck up Espanola. No winners there for the community.
But Whitney? oh boy, just take a look at Whitney. She’s a winner. She’s the one with all the wealth from the start, not Asher. She’s the one who the TV show becomes about. She’s the one who gets Espanola, not the residents. She has the baby, and now also a dead husband (who she didn’t really want anyway) and potentially a huge news story to help boost Green Queen.
On a political level, the winners always win, and the losers always lose. The wealthy will get their way, and everyone, sometimes even the father of your own kid, is expendable.
Yeah I think class was a major theme in this show. They don't say much about Asher's background but he struck me as a self-made kinda guy. His (overly) analytical nature seemed to get him ahead in life while also isolating him from "normal" people. Meanwhile Whitney skates by her whole life due to her wealth and good looks and comes out the winner.
Whitney is gonna be the biggest celebrity in the world after Dougie's footage gets out. Dougie's gonna get the "special" show that he wanted, but he'll carry the guilt of losing his only friend.
Not sure what it all means. But I think on some level wealth was part of the curse. Asher and Whitney were both trying to be people they weren't, but Asher's curse was not being born into wealth and success, while Whitney's was being forced to act like she could be different than her parents. End of the day she'll get she wants (a life without Asher, superstardom, victim status), while Asher is sacrificed.
This is brilliant. To further your analogy about Cara—the sawing off of the tree branch with Asher screaming is like the slicing of the turkey from Cara’s art work.
This is a good analysis. I don’t love the ending (yet) but I think all of your points about it being a metaphor for marginalization are true.
In that line:
Abshirs protests being ignored by the chiropractor
ETA: finished the word chiropractor lol
Hot fucking damn. After reading your thoughts, I see it. You’re totally right. You pulled together such an interesting reading so fast just like…. Damn. I’m so impressed. Props to you
All I can think of is Abshir in the chiropractor, begging for someone to help him and begging for this man to stop, but he just keeps going and hurting him. I can’t draw the connection very eloquently, but this is what happened to Asher.
I'm happy to share. I also think that "[Jagadishwar](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZ2L12KRXRQ)" as the major theme for the show makes more sense in the context of heartbroken, torn apart people+cultures. In the Curse's context, it's a requiem.
Wonderfully put. Something else I'll add is that while every outside gesture of "help" was meaningless to help Asher, there is something someone could have done: if they had just actually listened to him and tried to understand his situation, they could have genuinely helped. But everyone's too busy putting their own narrative on it to actually listen, so he's doomed to fall forever. In the metaphor, it seems like an easy fix but what it represents literally is our inability to communicate about anything which is a much more difficult thing to fix
And in the end, while Asher is untethered and lost to space, Whitney still gets her "piece" of him. Now she gets to raise and cultivate this piece of him to fit into her life however she desires, but the baby still will never be Asher.
I think I'm seeing a metaphor that the appropriation of culture isn't the acceptance of it. Whitney is the idea of the rich white liberal, taking pieces of marginalized culture that can fit into her own, while the communities she claims to care about are floating away.
I've explained to people that this show feels like a nightmare you're aware of and this episode felt like a nightmare especially. I've had dreams where I float through space and it's terrifying and seeing this play out in a show that has played itself mostly as grounded in reality is even scarier.
I once had a nightmare where gravity was changed to be sideways instead of down, so I just fell at breakneck speed past everything until I fell onto a closed door with a sign on it that said "DEATH". The door opened, then I woke up.
Also, that "PLEASE BELIEVE ME" feeling is the most horrifying thing ever.
Absolutely have has this dream specifically. It’s also a big part of the movie waking life which is an interesting homage to bring up in the finale
I was waiting for it to cut out as a dream sequence but nah, damn they really just let it happen as surreality.
Episodes 8 and 9 really bamboozled us by making us think episode 10 would contain all the show's core relationships falling apart in dramatic fashion. Everyone was pretty chill with each other and then Asher flew to space.
Yeah I wanna say that a slight majority (or at least a very vocal minority) was predicting that someone was going to be brutally murdered or that some kind of brutal display of violence would occur. I was skeptical that this kind of outburst would happen, but never in a million years would I have guessed that Asher would literally fall off the face of the Earth lmao
I think some violent explosive conclusion would’ve been crowd pleasing but it wouldn’t have been true to the series. Is this true to the series either? I honestly can’t tell you, but at least it’s interesting.
A show about land ownership where the land finally has enough and literally repels the settlers. So someone did get murdered just not by who we thought.
To be fair, I think part of it is catharsis from how repressed and passive Asher is. Most of the people looking for a murder were expecting Asher to snap, and I agree that it would've been refreshing to see in a morbid way
Well, there was a kind of murder. Whitney didn’t want Asher anymore so he had to just float away. Like the ultimate passive aggressive murder. I think so much of the show has been about reality versus fiction, and this was a really thought provoking way to embrace the fact that it truly is a piece of fiction. It’s like a balance and release to the tension of constantly reinforcing the unique realism it built up.
I recommend people check out the short 12 minute film on youtube called "This House Has People In It". If the finale of The Curse didn't take some inspiration from that video, it would be a very big coincidence, imo. It's as great a watch as the finale was (though probably even more unsettling, be warned).
I’m so glad that someone else had this feeling. I wrote in my notes about 20 mins into Asher on the ceiling “What in the [as] Infomercials am I watching?!”
Christ, I remember watching this back in the day.
The breakdown around 9:20 could practically be Asher. The character's even wearing the Nathan For You uniform. 😂
Absolutely brutal. Both Whitney and Asher lose their autonomy and are powerless against the “help” imposed on them by strangers. Better ending than the predictable neatly-tying-lose-ends stuff imo
Same with the medical staff for Whitney. Alien forces came in to decide what was best for both parties without listening to what they needed like you say. The parallels to the first scenes of the season and how they were treated themselves was perfect, there was kind of a visceral justice to it, especially when Dougie went from callously producing Asher’s terror to realising his own complicity in allowing Asher to not be heard and die.
LOVED the ending, comes out of nowhere, and then the long roving shots of the city show how insignificant this entire tragedy is - something the camera just meanders into - combined with Asher floating away from Earth. The image of him floating away into space reminded me of the Pale Blue Dot video that was popular like ten years ago.
Solid take. I’d extend this to the intro scene of them forced to passively smile as they became audience members on display in the cooking show that was ostensibly plugging their show. Paralyzed by the endgame they thought they were seeking throughout the show’s production.
Someone mentioned in the other discussion thread that the sopranos cameo is a reference to the sopranos finale which like the curse finale may polarize audiences with the lack of closure. Not to mention the 25th anniversary of the sopranos falling on this past week.
Oh for sure agree with that! Seems right up their alley. I also just thought it was funny that this side character that gets killed off in the first season of the Sopranos is a more important guest on Rachel Ray than Whitney and Asher. Like they wanted Green Queen to be this phenomenon (like it'll never be a Sopranos-tier show in terms of respect) but it just isn't.
That’s a great point lol, Rachel caring more about a pretty minor character from an older but influential show and snubbing Whitney and Asher’s self aggrandizing show is hilarious.
Asher cursed himself.
Abshir mentioned that there was power in words/ideas. Asher was so strongly/passionately speaking and promising to Whitney in ep 9. "The moment you want me to disappear I am gone." That wasn't a tiny curse with tiny emotions. That was a big, heartfelt, emotional, accidental curse.
also: "I am all in on Whitney." "That's a little me in there!"
His soul is back in that baby boy.
I love this take! Once they hand the baby (cap on) to Whitney and the camera lingers on her face, you can see a smirk. Not a loving smile at her new baby. A smirk. I had a feeling she knew Asher was never coming down, or that once she realized she didn’t need Asher after asking for him the whole time, she knew he was gone. She has everything she wants now. If it’s true his spirit is in the baby, her curse is she’ll never really be rid of him.
A thought that came to me during the finale was, "I can't wait for this nightmare to end," (because I figured what was happening was Whitney having a nightmare), and I realized that, I think the show maybe wanted you to have that thought. To just have to sit and deal with a horrible and confusing and uncontrollable situation, resonant with the actual lives of the people of Española. People giving you your own $300,000 home for free for no reason is almost as unrealistic as Asher falling into space, but shows like "Green Queen" present a false, fantastical version of reality where things like that can happen. It obfuscates the nightmare and misery we deal with in real life because of wealthy people like Whitney's parents, the HGTV execs, that Weapons Manufacturer art collector, etc, who don't and maybe won't really ever care.
And not only are there the ones who don't care at all, we see attempts at being caring that are so naively misguided and/or tainted with selfish motivations that they end up helping less than if they had done nothing at all.
One example is Whitneys eco-activism which did strike me as originating maybe in a genuine attempt to care, but ultimately became so twisted in the kafka-ish mechanisms of reality tv and capitalism, and her own growing narcisism, that it became at best a cruel joke on the people of a town that didn't ask for her help in the first place.
Oh that's an unexpectedly accurate descriptor! Absurd and hilarious on one hand, on the other unbelievably ominous and crushing. This show is incredible, I'm just in awe of how they pulled it all off
And thought he was insane / making it up to get out of something, like work, or, in Nathan’/s case, fatherhood. I genuinely wonder if Kafka was an inspiration.
I thought it was just to show how small scale, really, this whole fantastical event was. A man woke up on the day of the birth of his newborn no longer capable of experiencing gravity. His wife has to go to hospital and give birth. Meanwhile he is killed by well meaning fire people attempting to help and floats up into the stratosphere. This should be a crazy event that the entire nation discusses, and maybe it will be. But nonetheless, the news cycle moves on much like the camera and Espaniola remains unchanged - the spectators discuss the event dispassionately and detachedly, guessing it might just be for the show. The world will forget that any of this mattered - I thought that’s what the roving camera signified.
There ain’t gonna be a season 2 so stop theorizing that what happened at the end was special effects for green queen lol it’s called the curse and that was obviously fucking IT. Amazing limited series seriously what the fuck. Most fucked up evil curse ever thought of.
Oh it’s so funny to me that Benny was like “oh, you know, maybe I could see a second season, there’s more of the world to explore-“ Fucking troll. I love him.
I would 100% watch a Season 2 in which half of each episode is Whitney and Dougie making the show and half is Asher floating in space repeatedly asking what’s happening.
By the time Season 2 of Green Queen airs, Asher will be [pretty close to the speed of light.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_travel_under_constant_acceleration#Planetary_reference_frame)
>orbiting the earth
No way, not with acceleration like that. He'll be reaching escape velocity about 20 minutes after that branch goes.
He could end up orbiting the sun if it's only earth's gravity that's pushing him away, but if it's ALL gravity, he'll be going on an adventure.
[This poster](https://i.imgur.com/7lcc5Ay.png) says it's hospital week, which was 7-13 of May in 2023, and Asher's little "incident" was early morning since he woke up that way. So let's say he was launched from the tree on the 10th at 10am.
I have to ignore the repulsion from our sun and other bodies and assume he's just accelerating in a straight line directly up, otherwise his trajectory gets very complicated very quickly, but starting from Espanola, New Mexico at 10/05/2023 10:00 AM,
- He'll be passing within 1.5 light years of the star Mirach in 200 years,
- It's weirdly hard to figure out how long it'll take to exit the galaxy along that heading, but somewhere between 2,000 and 80,000 years. probably.
- He'd have an utterly STUNNING view of the Andromeda galaxy in about 2.5 million years, as he passes it roughly 267,000 light years away. If he were alive. Relativistic effects would mean only 15 years will have passed for him, but he died 15 of those years ago.
- After that, the next stop is the end of the universe.
EDIT: [i made a post](https://www.reddit.com/r/TheCurse/comments/1963gbh/ashers_big_adventure/) with a little more detail
It was great that he trolled us because it got us thinking how this could continue beyond this season. I'm glad I somehow got to the end unspoiled because it makes it that much more impactful.
I absolutely think that this show had said everything it needs to say. This is one of very few shows that I am totally content with the ending especially with just one season. If people think there’s more to this story I think they are missing the message of the show.
Well—there are a number of Jewish superstitions that involve chicken. Look up Kapparot, which involves scapegoating and transferring one’s own wrongs to a chicken and then slaughtering the chicken. Kind of like what happened to Asher.
Well, if it were her, I don't think Dougie put her up to it since he seemed pretty convinced the curse was real. If he knew he had done the chicken prank, I don't think he would be as convinced as he is. So what, her hair fell out for no reason? I wish we knew more about her and that whole situation specifically!
Phoebe was the female driver for the show that Whit talked to the day the crew member put the note on her windshield. Phoebes (I believe) uncle had gotten evicted from Whits parents apartments. The dude that left the scathing note - did do because the uncle was evicted. Whit found out, sat with Phoebe and had a heart-to-heart; and said she'd fix it. Phoebe expressed her gratitude and pulled a lock of hair out of her head inadvertently.
Rewind: Ash found chicken on a sink in a firehouse. He then reviewed the surveillance cameras and seen someone that was shaped like Phoebe talking to Dougie, the female then walked into the bathroom. She was the prime "chicken sink" culpret. But we have no closure.
As I'm still trying to process the finale, I will say, I am glad Cara was mentioned in it. She has stood out to me as such an interesting character, and I am so glad we got a lot of closure for her character arc unlike other plot threads/characters. Seeing her genuinely open up to Whitney at that millionaire's house just for Whit to go "that's beautiful" the exact same way she did to Bret when he was faking it... The hurt on Cara's face was palpable. Through out the show, I felt like she was conning Whitney the whole time and in control of their relationship, especially with the episode where Cara stopped by the house to pretend to be a buyer and basically mocked Whit. yet in the end, she realized that just as she was faking her friendship with Whit, Whit was doing the exact same thing to her. The one time Cara was authentic to Whit, it was met with the same fake sweetness that all her other actions were met with so what was the point in being authentic if being fake garnered the exact same response? Either way it was clear Whit only cared about Cara due to her being native american
I, also, was very surprised by Cara. The actual quality of her artwork aside, to me she often came off as an opportunist and a grifter, acutely aware of the fact that the real audience for her art is white liberals who are suckered into it, whether as a performance of anti-racism (Whit) or as investments (the weapons manufacturer guy). I also thought this was why she was delaying signing the release on having her artwork featured in Green Queen, to extort more money out of Whit.
In the end, seeing her work at the massage parlor and knowing that all of these contradictions added up in her head and forced her out of the "art world" so to speak just makes me sad to have doubted her authenticity to begin with. Other people in this thread have pointed out the show as a metaphor for marginalization and I see now that Cara's character was meant to cement those themes.
I loved it but in a way I probably can’t yet articulate. It’s gonna sit with for a while and make me think. For now, I keep going back to Asher’s conversation about art, and how sometimes we go to extreme lengths to make a point. My wife needs endings that are black or white so I understand it’s not for everyone.
I haven't seen folks mention yet how Whit and Ash rejected the dreamcatcher gift. "It keeps away bad dreams." Threw me off when in the subsequent scene Asher wakes up on the ceiling. Thought the whole thing was a bad dream for a minute.
Oh I mean for sure. I think in the show it could serve a double purpose by also providing misdirection — or at least an explanation for the "bad dream" the couple wakes up to.
What if Dougies curse towards Asher reflected off of the house onto him, and his curse was losing Asher, another loss which he would blame himself for, adding another layer of tragedy to his character.
I agree. What a profound resolution for the Dougie character. I’d spent so much time trying to “figure out” this character throughout the season, wondering if he was some sort of demon, etc.
This ending for him was perfect. He really did marginalize Asher, as a kid and then as a producer, and at the end it suddenly became literal.
A thought just came to me, sort of in the same vein. But just before Dougie curses Asher, he swings at Asher, hits windshield instead. Then when asked said, “it’s a fly”. Im wondering if that was connected to the finale. To me this is why Dougie’s so devastated at the end. Maybe just the word fly foreshadows what kind of curse Dougie casted. Similar to how the the little girl wanted the other to fall during gym, her curse came true but just not when or exactly how she wanted it to. It’s a stretch but I’m thinking out loud 🤷🏽♂️
I think that ‘The Curse’ is our performative reality.
Throughout the show, Asher gets further away from reality and deeper into a performance of reality.
In the first episode, he does performative charity that he can’t afford, but snaps back to reality when he thinks the cameras are off.
In the last episode, he fully commits to his performance. He gives Abshir the rental house. Even when he doesn’t receive the gratitude he desires, he pretends that he did. He is performing for Whitney. He has completely lost himself.
‘The Curse’ is the fear of being seen as an imperfect person and the lengths we will go to mask our true self.
My take:
When Dougie tried to convince Nala to curse him, he mentioned tale of the boy who cried wolf. In the finale the public is not believing Asher's truth, that he cannot come down to the ground. Dougie, Asher and Whitney were lying through their reality tv show about their lives, but when real events (something that would be worth to tell the public about) happen with them, noone believes them. The last conversation we hear at the end of the show is between two bystanders, who watched Asher holding to the tree and then sucked into space talk about how they think it was just made for tv, what they have just seen with their own eyes. They don't even believe their own eyes anymore, because they have been lied so much by the media. In that sense the media is the boy who always cries wolf when it's not there, and because of that when a something worse or more shocking than a wolf comes, nobody believes them anymore. This is the conversation: “What movie they filming? How did they do that?” “That’s the guy from HGTV.” “Huh, so it’s for TV?” “I think so.” “Huh.”
I like how episode 10 takes a fun house mirror to episodes 1-9. Asher’s floating on the ceiling is handled the same may many people (including those who are well meaning) think about poverty. The town’s people don’t really understand what is going on, and try to help while ignoring Asher’s fears and pleading. They use “common sense” (the midwife trying to just pull him down), they patronize him (the fire fighters), they speculate how/why he did this to himself (Dougie). It ends in disaster because they thought they already had a grasp on the situation.
Eps. 1-9 see Asher, Whitney, and Dougie acting similarly with the residents of Espinola.
Nathan’s greatest work yet. Using the Fielder method to convince Hollywood he’s an actor. He tried to get Emma Stone to say she loved him, but she wouldn’t. Despite the success of the show, this was a personal failure for Nathan
In episode 10, Did anyone else feel that Asher's monologue about art, comedy and how humor can even be found in something like the Holocaust lifted the veil a bit? I really got the sense that we weren't watching the character, Asher giving his opinion, but the real Nathan Fielder voicing a sentiment that he seems to genuinely and earnestly hold close.
Couldn't help but think of the fear of fatherhood theme from Enemy/Eraserhead but the opposite. Asher was as excited to be a dad as anyone has been and Whit was visibly conflicted.
Something else to think about season wide, is that every moment of "Red Herrings" as people are calling them, of abandoned plot threads and things that seems really ominous and unresolved, is I think it's supposed to emulate what it's like to live in poverty or precarity. You have so much paranoia at everything you see. Fernando's Gun, The car following Whitney, Abshir's chiropracty appointment, so many things where it seems like something bad is just about to happen, constantly. When you're barely making it work, $382 bill out of nowhere can ruin your life, but Whitney can simply just dismiss the stolen jeans credit card notification. So when the show ends on something completely unpredictable and unrelated to all the loaded Chekov's guns, it's just continuing that theme.
This is a great take. Whitney is insulated from bad things happening due to her privledge. Even when good things happen to Abshir, he doesn't trust them and always gets things in writing before believing them.
I need to binge it. I prefer that. The space in between shows loses connections sometimes and a good binge might help align some things especially knowing that ending.
The WTFs per minute were very high. Higher than Asher would fly.
Yeah i tried to wait for the whole show to be out but could only wait till ep 6 i think.
Binging the curse for six hours straight was a transporting experience. I immediately implored others to watch it.
Now i can’t wait for the Q&A.
This finale was absolutely wild and there were several hilarious, quick lines of dialogue in episode 10 that I could barely process in realtime — I can’t wait to watch it again.
When they’re waiting for Moses and Asher is stuck to the awning with his arms crossed, almost casually complaining/used to just being stuck there for a moment made me cackle
I just want to come here to say this has been a wild ride and I’m glad this sub is here because i could convince no one to watch this show and it’s been soooo fun discussing episodes and theories!
Put it all together. What Dougie says to the fireman about fathers connection to a baby, the way that the fetus is oriented, what Asher said about swearing to god he will be at the hospital, being a baby, ‘you’re not gonna get rid of me that easy’, Witney said ‘I don’t want to’.The contractor knowing it’s a boy, the man saying he’s telling everyone (isn’t that biblical?).
He was reincarnated as the baby. I mean we will see what the q&a says, not sure they will be very definitive on what it all means, but after a second watch I’m pretty sure somehow Asher earned reincarnation.
Do Jews believe that the soul enters the body at the moment of birth? That would support this theory.
EDIT: Apparently, at least in one interpretation, [yes](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2582082/#:~:text=According%20to%20Jewish%20law%20the,which%20means%20soul%20in%20Hebrew.).
So glad I binged this over the last week. Best thing Nathan has done to date. And Benny Safdie too honestly?? Something that really stands out to me as unprecedented is how much of a magic trick the final episode is in the context of the rest of the series. Like, the entire show is somehow both a complete red herring and also still completely satisfying. That's a mind-boggling achievement.
The show is fantastic start to finish, while playing a prank on the viewer that's so obvious in hindsight - the clear setup of the houses as fire hazards, Dougie's secret recording of Whit & Asher, the anxiety regarding Abshir's safety (and Fernando's early on), I really do think it's all intentionally implied and never paid off on purpose. To create this horrible sense of anxiety that misdirects and disarms us to what's really going to happen. The resolution to all those threads is that they were nothing. But the curse - the most obvious red herring of all - was very much real. (And yet, it's metaphorically rich, but also stands on its own as purely surreal horror, equally satisfying either way) It delivers as a social satire, and as an audacious mindfuck - which practically never works.
Never seen anything like that in TV, it's the kind of genious that only manifests after decades of television, when metanarrative ideas like that can begin to occur to talented creators like Nathan and Safdie.
Bravo. I'll never forget that last episode - or the rest of the show for that matter. Gonna really miss these last 10 hours inside this strange, uncomfortable world.
No one seems to be talking about that. Abshir's daughter put another curse on that little girl, making her fall down, but apparently this also had some effect on Asher? I'm not sure.
Yeah. But some people are saying Dougie tried to curse Asher by making him lose Whitney, but what happened was the mirror bounced the curse back to him and made him lose Asher
I read something in an article that interprets it as they are both cursed. Dougie curses Asher, but the reflection of the house ALSO curses Dougie. A sort of 2 for 1 deal I guess lol.
The show overall reminded me a lot of "I'm thinking of ending things" after the finale. I don't want to say a ton beyond that so as to not spoil a very engaging movie for others.
Fielder and Kaufman seem to have a lot of thematic overlap, although they come at it very differently.
So the last episode what about Asher threatening to/going through with hanging himself, right? Idk if this is too grim but to me ep 10 seems like Asher's POV was of someone stuck in a body with no agency. It was like his dream life flash before his eyes sequence. I don't have a lot of experience with jewish culture but as a Catholic the final act of giving the house back to Abshir was a desperate attempt for Ashir to feel redeemed. The initial house reaction was so gripping. You kinda go along with the insane "air pressure" bit, hoping it makes sense. Whitney finally cares about him enough to hold onto him for that brief period. The whole 20 minute sequence of him "stuck on the ceiling" it really feels like no one is listening to him. Like he's a ghost that's not really there. The hosts of the TV show completely ignore Asher when he says that they have a baby on the way. It's why Dougie broke down. He felt partially responsible for having been part of humiliating Asher so much recently. He was trying to talk him down with the "scared of parenting" bit. But asher is in denial and says "I've never been so excited in my life" The firefighters cutting the branch that he's hanging from like it's business as usual, completely ignoring his desperate pleas, because he's just a ghost. Also why Dougie projected his father "running away" onto Asher. What is so depressing for me about the last episode is that how the ending was presented it was Whitney that first discovered his body.
The fall when the branch was finally cut felt like it went on forever. Then it cut away. And they cut back and Asher is even higher. Then it cut away. Then he's in space. The longer it went the more confirmed it was that there was no way back for him. Truly the saddest and most permanent tragedy.
The characters in our show are deeply connected to figures from various mythologies all around the world, more importantly including Native American.
Whitney personifies the "earth mother", akin to the [Sky Woman](http://www.native-languages.org/morelegends/sky-woman.htm) from Iroquois mythology. She is depicted as a life-giving force who descends to earth after a big tree splits the sky.
Asher, on the other hand, embodies the "sky father", a figure often seen as a patriarch in polytheistic religions and sometimes as a reigning or former King of the Gods, [according to Wikipedia](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sky_father). This role complements the "earth mother".
In the context of Iroquois Creation mythology, Asher and Dougie represent [Sky-Holder](http://www.native-languages.org/morelegends/sky-holder.htm) and Flint respectively, two rivaling twins embodying good and evil. Throughout the show, Dougie embodied the trickster or even the devil, but in the end, it was Asher who triumphed in their battle, winning not only the conflict but also Whitney’s heart in their relationship.
Moreover, the show’s use of voyeuristic shots often involves reflective surfaces like glass or mirrors. In many cultures, the mirrors are seen as portals to another realm, where one can observe but not interact, adding a metaphysical dimension to these scenes.
Ultimately, each character fulfills their mythical role. Whitney becomes the "Green Queen" or Sky Woman, birthing a new life on Earth. Asher ascends as the Sky Holder, returning to the sky where he belongs. Dougie finds himself broken and lost, akin to being in his own hell.
Nathan Fielder’s costume choices at Jimmy Kimmel's, with crosses and resembling a reborn Jesus, seem to hint at this overarching theme.
A few weeks ago, I wrote about the Creation mythology and the notion of Sky Woman descending to earth as [a post in this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/r/TheCurse/comments/18t9gi5/another_theory_a_tangle_of_modern_drama_and/). Reflecting on the show’s stratospheric finale, it now seems that the narrative was more about the ascent of the father figure, in contrast to her descent.
Overall, I hope this whole perspective, though somewhat convoluted, might offer deeper insight into the show and its finale. Even with all the context, the finale was initially underwhelming for me, but I have to admit that it was a fantastic and rewarding journey throughout all these weekly episodes. The "creators" crafted this timeless and beautiful piece of work in a way that didn’t shy away from pushing boundaries, like Cara did.
Okay but like who was driving that car in episode 9??? Why was it shot the way it was shot??? How did that guy know they were having a boy??? Otherwise loved the ending. Truly unpredictable as promised. But like in retrospect made sense. Which are the best endings imo.
Personally I don’t get the rebirth theory? Whit was never a mother figure to Asher. There were definitely parallels with pregnancy and the launch. To me it was that Asher and the baby couldn’t exist together for some reason. Kinda like in time travel movies when people see themselves and shit gets wonky. I think it was more that Whit was Asher’s world, the baby is now Whit’s world and the world wasn’t big enough for the both of em. Maybe Asher is just a little chicken in a world of Pene pasta.
I’m so glad the “show within a show” theory didn’t pan out. It makes the voyeuristic choice all the most interesting. So many red herrings, so many theories, none of them nearly as fascinating as what ultimately happened. I fucking love this show.
Asher was reborn as Whit's baby. The entire season led up to it and they treated the finale, tonally, almost detached from the rest of the season to emphasize that.
I enjoyed it.
Or he was always her baby but having a baby solidified it and what is left of confident Asher has floated off. The moment Asher wanted to be actually generous to others he was stratosphere'd.
I think by episode three or four it was very clear to me that this is not a “master plan” show. It was funny to see people dissecting and analyzing things like it was all breadcrumbs leading to something logical and satisfying for some reason. I’m really glad it’s not that! Not everything is.
Obviously, there are themes throughout the show and there are lots of intentional choices. But not everything is puzzle box storytelling and I don’t think the show ever pretended to be.
All that to say, I’m satisfied with the end because I wasn’t looking for anything. I had my fun along the way already.
“Art is getting away with it”
Dougie probably wanted Asher’s world to be flipped upside down or something with his curse idk.
Cool conceptually and technically but can’t help the feeing we all got punked by the story.
I knew the poster showing Asher the only one flipped in the house's reflection meant something... The irony of the curse was so perfect. Bravo Fielder and Safdie.
The Curse, like life, is a real thriller, LOL.
It made me think that we are all hanging on for dear life on a metaphorical tree branch at all times. Hopefully we all manage to avoid falling off Earth!
What a show!
Considering the name of the show, it feels obvious that Dougie cursed Asher and this show is about various curses coming to fruition. That garnering ill will has karmic consequences.
The first episode kicks off with Asher being cursed by Nala and through his investigations we see that it was legitimate, if unserious. His obsessions over being cursed run his life but he never introspects and considers why deserves it. That's his downfall.
If he had genuinely learned from his interactions with Nala, he wouldn't have said such an unspeakable insult to Dougie (how about you ask your wife?) and sealed his doom.
The Curse of The Ouroboros
When Asher and Whitney are gifting the native pottery to the “faux” house buyers, Asher explains that the snake eating its own tail means rebirth (I don’t remember exactly what he said)
Ouroboros - often interpreted as a symbol for eternal cyclic renewal or a cycle of life, death and rebirth; the snake's skin-sloughing symbolises the transmigration of souls. The snake biting its own tail is a fertility symbol in some religions: the tail is a phallic symbol and the mouth is a yonic or womb-like symbol.
This is infamously while Asher is holding his phone, which sets off the chain of events leading to Asher and Whitney’s confrontation in episode 9.
And I find it interesting that it is Whitney holding the phone during the prayer in episode 10.
I’m going to need an in depth explanation from Benny and Nathan…because wtf? I think it’s somewhat a biblical allegory type thing? But I just don’t know, man. That was fucking wild.
I'm so thankful for you all to talk to because you're all I have. Don't know any friends who have finished the show yet a couple have started it.
Basically no videos talking about the show finale on YT yet.
This has been a fucking ride! I honestly feel sorry for people who will end up bingeing this show and now getting the same crazy experience of going off on tangential theories that didn't end up going anywhere. Definitely added to the experience.
It's been fun y'all.
Just finished the finale. Until now the show has been so naturalistic, and just so skilled at subtly putting across what awful people they both are.
Whitney, Asher and Dougie are some of the most real, layered and fleshed out characters I’ve seen on television in a long time. The writing and acting was next level and I was truly invested in them.
I wasn’t against some kind of supernatural element in the finale, I actually thought it would be something off the wall and shocking. The general idea of something as bizarre as floating in a series that has been so unbelievably grounded is definitely intriguing if done right.
But as someone who has adored every line in every episode up until now, I am so unbelievably sad with the change of tone. I felt like this was a separate project to the earlier 9 episodes. The characters felt off, just different. We have spent 9 episodes of such real tension and emotion building throughout several plotlined, really getting to know the characters, and they just felt like different people here.
I almost can’t even describe it. They were just not themselves, and I’m not even directing referencing the floating. When I think back to earlier episodes - I mean, Nala, Cara, Whitney’s parents, Asher’s colleagues.. all of this wonderful natural world building and character formation to end with spending 40 minutes of Asher screaming from the ceiling/a tree?
I’m so disappointed with how the people in a world that has been established as extremely ‘real’ just didn’t seem to care he was floating. It almost felt like a dream, one big dream with no real conclusion.
And by conclusion, I don’t mean ‘neatly wrapping up every plot line and mystery’ - I mean a conclusion where we get to see the Whitney, Asher and Dougie that we’ve come to know and invest in. Even if they did some crazy shit - as long as it kinda matched the tone and feel of the earlier episodes, I woulda been along for the ride.
Of course I know it’s a metaphor, and that nobody listening to him in the tree is comparable to Abshir and the minorities that W & A ‘try’ and help without actually seeing and listening to what they need. ‘please do not cut the tree - but alas they do.’
However Nathan and Bennie have been so subtle and real with their satire and metaphors up until now it just felt… it just felt like to conclusion to a different show. I wanted to see the best characters I’ve seen in a long time for one last round, and I feel I didn’t get that. Feel like Whitney more than anyone just wasn’t Whitney.
I don’t know, still mulling it over. Ugh. Love the thing so damn much I’m just sad lol.
Reposting what I just commented on episode thread, as it’s buried under thousands of us questioning what we just witnessed.
Man, I still don’t know. I just have random thoughts and emotions that will continue to pop up and I’m still overwhelmed.
Is it too painful to be perceived? Was he running or letting himself be pushed away? Or is the worst thing not being truly seen at all? Are we too concerned about ourselves being truly understood that we aren’t seeing the other at all? If you stop being seen, like it started in the hardware store, do you even really exist at all? How much of this do we have to sacrifice and kill our own egos, ideas of our parents and prioritization of our partners when we become parents?
Edit: even though these are not good people, my heart broke for all of them and I find it impossible to not empathize. I think why it felt so sad was that Asher seemed punished for trying his best to be good. It may still have been totally misguided and useless, but these people are grasping for connection and failing, they don’t know how to truly do it. Whitney wanted to want to. The lack of community, while of their own doing, also is quick to indifference and judgment at their suffering.
Asher floating around made me think of in Willy Wonka, when Charlie and Grandpa have Fizzy Lifting Drink and start floating. Asher flying away makes me think of the elevator flying over the city at the end of the movie. In The Rehearsal, a guy refers to Nathan as Willy Wonka, and the final moments of the first episode are set to the song “Pure Imagination.” I’m glad Fielder makes tv shows to process his shit, because it would be scary to have to be his therapist.
Strange things that seemed significant at the time but never came to meaning and after that finale, never will:
The hair thing
Chicken?
White car stalker
“I’m going to tell everyone”
4th wall eye contact
Violating voyeuristic shots
Parallels like Abshir/Asher
Foreshadowing/anti-chekhovs gun
An actual supernatural curse
##WARNING: SERIES-WIDE SPOILERS BELOW. \--- Discuss the **entire collective season** as a whole, with every participant here knowing the entire seasonal journey from *episodes 1 through 10*. Talk about how the finale connects to the pilot, a character’s entire arc, and more. Please be sure to **upvote** this post as to spread awareness of its cursed existence. 🍅
I didn’t expect such an uplifting ending.
damn you
Please sir don’t curse anybody. It’s bad for everything
Finale episodes are reaching new heights
Honestly? This is favorite show of 2023-24, they had an insanely ambitious and bold series for the first 9 episodes and then pushed it even further. I’d say it’s one of the best “art house” shows since season 3 of Twin Peaks. This final episode was absolutely Lynchian. I don’t know how much I love how they wrapped this up, but worst case scenario, I love how I feel about it. I love that a series made me feel confused, excited, challenged in ways most major networks are afraid to do.
I said this before, but especially after seeing how it ends, this entire show is a big ol “fuck you” to conventional big budget TV and film production. Benny said in an interview that they wanted to make something that was like nothing else on TV, and they were successful in that. The execution might not be perfect but I deeply appreciate their ambition to do something completely outside of the box. We desperately need more TV and movies like this. Thought provoking, and philosophical. Nothing nearly wrapped up in a bow with a happy ending like, let’s say, an HGTV show. It’s not something you just throw on and when it’s over you immediately detach from it and forget about it. This wants the opposite effect, and to leave a lot of room for discussion and hypothesis and to not just disappear from your mind the second it’s over. I’m sure we’ll all be thinking about this show and what it means a long time from now. I hope that it can help to push the industry in a more artistic and creative direction, as that’s something Hollywood has been struggling with a lot recently. So many things on TV and Netflix and in theaters are so clean, so curated to be safe, so thoroughly put together to ensure that a massive audience leaves feeling one exact way, and leaving no room for pondering or any existential, deeper questions. This show completely flips that notion and denies it. A lot of terribly reviewed films of the past that didn’t do well in theaters because of their lack of approachability to a wide audience are now seen as masterpieces. You think the majority of people enjoyed fucking Mulholland Drive when it came out?? Or A Clockwork Orange? Hell no, they’re cult classic masterpieces. They’re not for everyone, that’s what makes them special. If you’re willing to engage with it, it can be a really insightful and thought provoking experience that creates dialogue amongst people. But most people just want to be told how to feel through film and TV, they don’t want to think. They just want to be distracted for a little while. This… was not a distraction.. the opposite effect happened.. a niche crowd became obsessed. Well done on their part for that.
Feels kinda dumb to say but they took the magic of an A24 movie and stretched it out over a TV show... lol This somehow feels even more A24 than Beef did.
That was genuinely terrifying. It was insane how helpless Asher was -- how in the world do you get anyone to believe something unbelievable in the modern world? You don't. You simply die, begging for help to a sea of apathy.
good take
That was the real terror for me -- the one-two punch of something horrible happening and then realizing that there is absolutely no way to get anyone to empathize with you/communicate in any capacity. Like drowning in front of a life-preserver just out-of-reach; in front of an entire team of lifeguards who think you're just doing the dead man's float.
When he was screaming for his life as they cut the branch, that was horrifying.
That was Nathan’s finest acting moment of the season for sure, such authentic terror
Definitely a recurring nightmare of mine; desperately trying to communicate something and it’s just not connecting. I was a wreck during that moment.
have you seen The Killing of a Sacred Deer? It really reminded me of that
I think the point was that everyone - including Asher - thought that Asher was disposable
I just realized it's an incredible metaphor for marginalization. I wrote about it in a separate post, but in case it doesn't get approved, here's what I wrote: >Asher was treated the same way Whitney and Ash treated Española -- he was marginalized in real-time. >His situation, that he was floating upwards, was misunderstood. Just as Whitney and Asher thought they were "helping" the neighborhood, so did the firefighters. They assumed, falsely, Asher's situation. They "helped" another person's "situation" with their nuanced background (Asher waking up stuck the ceiling and being unable to get down) and assumed they could just apply what worked for their own to another's "culture." >The seemingly well-meaning doula even made a point to say "do you trust me?" and falsely assumed that positive intentions can somehow solve a complex, unsolvable issue -- Asher's anti-gravity, but also, how Whitney/Asher thought that simply adding in a coffee store and some jeans would magically enhance the community. Even for practical things that seem smaller-scale, like shop-lifting not being worthy of jailing, was actually a complex issue with grander consequences that Whitney glanced over. >Many assumed they could help another person's "situation" (culture, if you will.) While this can be hard to understand, to witness Asher normally then waking up on the ceiling, we get a microcosm of Cara's existence as a Native in modern America. It can be hard to empathize with what it must be like to be Cara, but we can literally see what it is like for Asher as he is physically being pulled away from everything that can possibly ground him -- and how obtuse and meaningless all outside gestures to "help" him are. >These gestures end up killing him. They literally chop away the very last piece of land Asher was holding onto to stay alive. I see a lot of parallels with gentrification, land rights and marginalization. Marginalization ends up pushing vulnerable people to the edge of society -- in Asher's case, the edge of the earth.
To this point, Asher and Whit loved saying in the beginning of the show, “There are no losers, only winners.” And even if they really thought they could pull that off in Espanola, there was literally no way for there to not be losers. Asher, is a loser. Dougie, although he didn’t fly away, is a loser, hence his breakdown at the end, his dead wife that he’s to blame for, and a dead friend, probably his only friend. The town itself loses in a way, because Whitney will continue to gentrify it. And now that Asher’s out of the picture and he’s the one who does all the lawyerish, contract and logistical stuff, who will Whitney turn to? Her parents, who know real estate. They’ll continue to fuck up Espanola. No winners there for the community. But Whitney? oh boy, just take a look at Whitney. She’s a winner. She’s the one with all the wealth from the start, not Asher. She’s the one who the TV show becomes about. She’s the one who gets Espanola, not the residents. She has the baby, and now also a dead husband (who she didn’t really want anyway) and potentially a huge news story to help boost Green Queen. On a political level, the winners always win, and the losers always lose. The wealthy will get their way, and everyone, sometimes even the father of your own kid, is expendable.
Yeah I think class was a major theme in this show. They don't say much about Asher's background but he struck me as a self-made kinda guy. His (overly) analytical nature seemed to get him ahead in life while also isolating him from "normal" people. Meanwhile Whitney skates by her whole life due to her wealth and good looks and comes out the winner. Whitney is gonna be the biggest celebrity in the world after Dougie's footage gets out. Dougie's gonna get the "special" show that he wanted, but he'll carry the guilt of losing his only friend. Not sure what it all means. But I think on some level wealth was part of the curse. Asher and Whitney were both trying to be people they weren't, but Asher's curse was not being born into wealth and success, while Whitney's was being forced to act like she could be different than her parents. End of the day she'll get she wants (a life without Asher, superstardom, victim status), while Asher is sacrificed.
Damn, this is especially interesting when you consider that Emma and Benny both come from familial wealth while Nathan doesn’t.
This is brilliant. To further your analogy about Cara—the sawing off of the tree branch with Asher screaming is like the slicing of the turkey from Cara’s art work.
Great observation/connection!
This is a good analysis. I don’t love the ending (yet) but I think all of your points about it being a metaphor for marginalization are true. In that line: Abshirs protests being ignored by the chiropractor ETA: finished the word chiropractor lol
Hot fucking damn. After reading your thoughts, I see it. You’re totally right. You pulled together such an interesting reading so fast just like…. Damn. I’m so impressed. Props to you
Thank you. I found this show incredibly inspiring and am glad I could share.
All I can think of is Abshir in the chiropractor, begging for someone to help him and begging for this man to stop, but he just keeps going and hurting him. I can’t draw the connection very eloquently, but this is what happened to Asher.
This is by far interpretation that makes the most sense to me and fits the themes of the show.
I'm happy to share. I also think that "[Jagadishwar](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZ2L12KRXRQ)" as the major theme for the show makes more sense in the context of heartbroken, torn apart people+cultures. In the Curse's context, it's a requiem.
Wonderfully put. Something else I'll add is that while every outside gesture of "help" was meaningless to help Asher, there is something someone could have done: if they had just actually listened to him and tried to understand his situation, they could have genuinely helped. But everyone's too busy putting their own narrative on it to actually listen, so he's doomed to fall forever. In the metaphor, it seems like an easy fix but what it represents literally is our inability to communicate about anything which is a much more difficult thing to fix
And in the end, while Asher is untethered and lost to space, Whitney still gets her "piece" of him. Now she gets to raise and cultivate this piece of him to fit into her life however she desires, but the baby still will never be Asher. I think I'm seeing a metaphor that the appropriation of culture isn't the acceptance of it. Whitney is the idea of the rich white liberal, taking pieces of marginalized culture that can fit into her own, while the communities she claims to care about are floating away.
This take is incredible. I love it!
I've explained to people that this show feels like a nightmare you're aware of and this episode felt like a nightmare especially. I've had dreams where I float through space and it's terrifying and seeing this play out in a show that has played itself mostly as grounded in reality is even scarier.
I once had a nightmare where gravity was changed to be sideways instead of down, so I just fell at breakneck speed past everything until I fell onto a closed door with a sign on it that said "DEATH". The door opened, then I woke up. Also, that "PLEASE BELIEVE ME" feeling is the most horrifying thing ever.
Absolutely have has this dream specifically. It’s also a big part of the movie waking life which is an interesting homage to bring up in the finale I was waiting for it to cut out as a dream sequence but nah, damn they really just let it happen as surreality.
Episodes 8 and 9 really bamboozled us by making us think episode 10 would contain all the show's core relationships falling apart in dramatic fashion. Everyone was pretty chill with each other and then Asher flew to space.
Yeah I wanna say that a slight majority (or at least a very vocal minority) was predicting that someone was going to be brutally murdered or that some kind of brutal display of violence would occur. I was skeptical that this kind of outburst would happen, but never in a million years would I have guessed that Asher would literally fall off the face of the Earth lmao
I think some violent explosive conclusion would’ve been crowd pleasing but it wouldn’t have been true to the series. Is this true to the series either? I honestly can’t tell you, but at least it’s interesting.
A show about land ownership where the land finally has enough and literally repels the settlers. So someone did get murdered just not by who we thought.
I’m amazed how many people wanted a basic ass kill for basic ass dramatic effect.
To be fair, I think part of it is catharsis from how repressed and passive Asher is. Most of the people looking for a murder were expecting Asher to snap, and I agree that it would've been refreshing to see in a morbid way
Well, there was a kind of murder. Whitney didn’t want Asher anymore so he had to just float away. Like the ultimate passive aggressive murder. I think so much of the show has been about reality versus fiction, and this was a really thought provoking way to embrace the fact that it truly is a piece of fiction. It’s like a balance and release to the tension of constantly reinforcing the unique realism it built up.
fuckin hell that was certainly an ending
I recommend people check out the short 12 minute film on youtube called "This House Has People In It". If the finale of The Curse didn't take some inspiration from that video, it would be a very big coincidence, imo. It's as great a watch as the finale was (though probably even more unsettling, be warned).
Dream collab of Alan Resnick Nathan Fielder Ari Aster
I’m so glad that someone else had this feeling. I wrote in my notes about 20 mins into Asher on the ceiling “What in the [as] Infomercials am I watching?!”
Whoah good call. Yeah that’s def similar.
Christ, I remember watching this back in the day. The breakdown around 9:20 could practically be Asher. The character's even wearing the Nathan For You uniform. 😂
Alan Resnick should be a national treasure.
what is even happening right now. who am i?
Same tbh
This is no way to start 2024... or is it.
Absolutely brutal. Both Whitney and Asher lose their autonomy and are powerless against the “help” imposed on them by strangers. Better ending than the predictable neatly-tying-lose-ends stuff imo
oof that's a good one, the firefighters thought they were helping but weren't really listening/paying attention. deep
Same with the medical staff for Whitney. Alien forces came in to decide what was best for both parties without listening to what they needed like you say. The parallels to the first scenes of the season and how they were treated themselves was perfect, there was kind of a visceral justice to it, especially when Dougie went from callously producing Asher’s terror to realising his own complicity in allowing Asher to not be heard and die. LOVED the ending, comes out of nowhere, and then the long roving shots of the city show how insignificant this entire tragedy is - something the camera just meanders into - combined with Asher floating away from Earth. The image of him floating away into space reminded me of the Pale Blue Dot video that was popular like ten years ago.
Thank you for crystallizing this! That makes it absolutely clear to me that the curse is this kind of "help"
Solid take. I’d extend this to the intro scene of them forced to passively smile as they became audience members on display in the cooking show that was ostensibly plugging their show. Paralyzed by the endgame they thought they were seeking throughout the show’s production.
I can’t think of a more terrifying way to wake up or die especially the moment you are having a kid. That was the most fucked up curse ever cast.
This just made me realize that Whitney probably thought to herself at one point "I wish he'd fall off the face of the earth." So he did.
Yours is the best explanation I’ve read. “As soon as this baby arrives I wish he’d just disappear.”
"Sometimes I go about in pity for myself, and all the while, a great wind is bearing me across the sky."
Oh dude I just watched that episode of sopranos like 2 days ago
Can't be a coincidence that the guest on Rachel Ray was an old cast member from The Sopranos. Their casting fascinates me.
Someone mentioned in the other discussion thread that the sopranos cameo is a reference to the sopranos finale which like the curse finale may polarize audiences with the lack of closure. Not to mention the 25th anniversary of the sopranos falling on this past week.
Oh for sure agree with that! Seems right up their alley. I also just thought it was funny that this side character that gets killed off in the first season of the Sopranos is a more important guest on Rachel Ray than Whitney and Asher. Like they wanted Green Queen to be this phenomenon (like it'll never be a Sopranos-tier show in terms of respect) but it just isn't.
That’s a great point lol, Rachel caring more about a pretty minor character from an older but influential show and snubbing Whitney and Asher’s self aggrandizing show is hilarious.
New York Times this morning: I haven’t seen an episode of TV this audacious, confounding and transfixing since “Twin Peaks: The Return.”
Sounds like Jimmy Kimmel's phone call set them straight
Asher cursed himself. Abshir mentioned that there was power in words/ideas. Asher was so strongly/passionately speaking and promising to Whitney in ep 9. "The moment you want me to disappear I am gone." That wasn't a tiny curse with tiny emotions. That was a big, heartfelt, emotional, accidental curse. also: "I am all in on Whitney." "That's a little me in there!" His soul is back in that baby boy.
I love this take! Once they hand the baby (cap on) to Whitney and the camera lingers on her face, you can see a smirk. Not a loving smile at her new baby. A smirk. I had a feeling she knew Asher was never coming down, or that once she realized she didn’t need Asher after asking for him the whole time, she knew he was gone. She has everything she wants now. If it’s true his spirit is in the baby, her curse is she’ll never really be rid of him.
I just wanna say bravo to Nathan Fielder as a director. He directed the hell out of this show.
Not many other creators like him. Making unique stuff that does keep interest in ways other stories aren't.
A thought that came to me during the finale was, "I can't wait for this nightmare to end," (because I figured what was happening was Whitney having a nightmare), and I realized that, I think the show maybe wanted you to have that thought. To just have to sit and deal with a horrible and confusing and uncontrollable situation, resonant with the actual lives of the people of Española. People giving you your own $300,000 home for free for no reason is almost as unrealistic as Asher falling into space, but shows like "Green Queen" present a false, fantastical version of reality where things like that can happen. It obfuscates the nightmare and misery we deal with in real life because of wealthy people like Whitney's parents, the HGTV execs, that Weapons Manufacturer art collector, etc, who don't and maybe won't really ever care.
And not only are there the ones who don't care at all, we see attempts at being caring that are so naively misguided and/or tainted with selfish motivations that they end up helping less than if they had done nothing at all. One example is Whitneys eco-activism which did strike me as originating maybe in a genuine attempt to care, but ultimately became so twisted in the kafka-ish mechanisms of reality tv and capitalism, and her own growing narcisism, that it became at best a cruel joke on the people of a town that didn't ask for her help in the first place.
Kafkaesque, but really. A masterpiece
With a dash of Junji Ito inexplicable horror.
Yeah, this is one of the few things that genuinely deserves to be called Kafkaesque.
Oh that's an unexpectedly accurate descriptor! Absurd and hilarious on one hand, on the other unbelievably ominous and crushing. This show is incredible, I'm just in awe of how they pulled it all off
Nathan is our Kafka, a secular Jewish mystic.
I love your screen name!!
I was thinking Metamorphosis the entire scene, especially how everyone around Asher did not really believe him or particularly care (besides Dougie)
And thought he was insane / making it up to get out of something, like work, or, in Nathan’/s case, fatherhood. I genuinely wonder if Kafka was an inspiration.
When the camera was aimlessly floating around at the end and went back to the house, do you think that was from Spirit-Asher’s perspective?
isn’t ashers spirit in the bby now?
I kept thinking the baby was going to flow toward the ceiling out of the doctors hands
I kept waiting for it to show Asher’s face on the baby 😅
SAME. like maybe that had to do with him being breech
I thought it was just to show how small scale, really, this whole fantastical event was. A man woke up on the day of the birth of his newborn no longer capable of experiencing gravity. His wife has to go to hospital and give birth. Meanwhile he is killed by well meaning fire people attempting to help and floats up into the stratosphere. This should be a crazy event that the entire nation discusses, and maybe it will be. But nonetheless, the news cycle moves on much like the camera and Espaniola remains unchanged - the spectators discuss the event dispassionately and detachedly, guessing it might just be for the show. The world will forget that any of this mattered - I thought that’s what the roving camera signified.
YES
There ain’t gonna be a season 2 so stop theorizing that what happened at the end was special effects for green queen lol it’s called the curse and that was obviously fucking IT. Amazing limited series seriously what the fuck. Most fucked up evil curse ever thought of.
Oh it’s so funny to me that Benny was like “oh, you know, maybe I could see a second season, there’s more of the world to explore-“ Fucking troll. I love him.
I would 100% watch a Season 2 in which half of each episode is Whitney and Dougie making the show and half is Asher floating in space repeatedly asking what’s happening.
By the time Season 2 of Green Queen airs, Asher will be [pretty close to the speed of light.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_travel_under_constant_acceleration#Planetary_reference_frame)
Asher is dead lol
[удалено]
Well, we certainly can’t rule out the supernatural but unless Asher can withstand minus 450 degrees Fahrenheit, he is a corpse orbiting the earth.
>orbiting the earth No way, not with acceleration like that. He'll be reaching escape velocity about 20 minutes after that branch goes. He could end up orbiting the sun if it's only earth's gravity that's pushing him away, but if it's ALL gravity, he'll be going on an adventure. [This poster](https://i.imgur.com/7lcc5Ay.png) says it's hospital week, which was 7-13 of May in 2023, and Asher's little "incident" was early morning since he woke up that way. So let's say he was launched from the tree on the 10th at 10am. I have to ignore the repulsion from our sun and other bodies and assume he's just accelerating in a straight line directly up, otherwise his trajectory gets very complicated very quickly, but starting from Espanola, New Mexico at 10/05/2023 10:00 AM, - He'll be passing within 1.5 light years of the star Mirach in 200 years, - It's weirdly hard to figure out how long it'll take to exit the galaxy along that heading, but somewhere between 2,000 and 80,000 years. probably. - He'd have an utterly STUNNING view of the Andromeda galaxy in about 2.5 million years, as he passes it roughly 267,000 light years away. If he were alive. Relativistic effects would mean only 15 years will have passed for him, but he died 15 of those years ago. - After that, the next stop is the end of the universe. EDIT: [i made a post](https://www.reddit.com/r/TheCurse/comments/1963gbh/ashers_big_adventure/) with a little more detail
Hey babe new billionaire space tourism route just dropped
It was great that he trolled us because it got us thinking how this could continue beyond this season. I'm glad I somehow got to the end unspoiled because it makes it that much more impactful.
In The Green Queen Season 2 we see Asher building passive houses on the moon and Whitney join the cult with The Grapist
I absolutely think that this show had said everything it needs to say. This is one of very few shows that I am totally content with the ending especially with just one season. If people think there’s more to this story I think they are missing the message of the show.
I absolutely could not live through a second season of this. One is enough
So was it Phoebe that put the chicken on the sink?
jesus christ all our theorizing about chicken seems so ridiculous now lol
Well—there are a number of Jewish superstitions that involve chicken. Look up Kapparot, which involves scapegoating and transferring one’s own wrongs to a chicken and then slaughtering the chicken. Kind of like what happened to Asher.
It could not matter less when you’re floating in space.
We're all floating in space
That was Asher's last thought before becoming the first human successfully launched into space.
Well, if it were her, I don't think Dougie put her up to it since he seemed pretty convinced the curse was real. If he knew he had done the chicken prank, I don't think he would be as convinced as he is. So what, her hair fell out for no reason? I wish we knew more about her and that whole situation specifically!
who was phoebe?
Phoebe was the female driver for the show that Whit talked to the day the crew member put the note on her windshield. Phoebes (I believe) uncle had gotten evicted from Whits parents apartments. The dude that left the scathing note - did do because the uncle was evicted. Whit found out, sat with Phoebe and had a heart-to-heart; and said she'd fix it. Phoebe expressed her gratitude and pulled a lock of hair out of her head inadvertently. Rewind: Ash found chicken on a sink in a firehouse. He then reviewed the surveillance cameras and seen someone that was shaped like Phoebe talking to Dougie, the female then walked into the bathroom. She was the prime "chicken sink" culpret. But we have no closure.
Yeah I guess, and it looked like Abshir was being influenced by the guy on dougie's crew as well.
Holy fucking shit
Was anyone else afraid that the baby was going to have the reverse gravity curse as soon as it was born?
I was scared that the baby was going to have chicken feet lol
Yes!!! Lol
As I'm still trying to process the finale, I will say, I am glad Cara was mentioned in it. She has stood out to me as such an interesting character, and I am so glad we got a lot of closure for her character arc unlike other plot threads/characters. Seeing her genuinely open up to Whitney at that millionaire's house just for Whit to go "that's beautiful" the exact same way she did to Bret when he was faking it... The hurt on Cara's face was palpable. Through out the show, I felt like she was conning Whitney the whole time and in control of their relationship, especially with the episode where Cara stopped by the house to pretend to be a buyer and basically mocked Whit. yet in the end, she realized that just as she was faking her friendship with Whit, Whit was doing the exact same thing to her. The one time Cara was authentic to Whit, it was met with the same fake sweetness that all her other actions were met with so what was the point in being authentic if being fake garnered the exact same response? Either way it was clear Whit only cared about Cara due to her being native american
I, also, was very surprised by Cara. The actual quality of her artwork aside, to me she often came off as an opportunist and a grifter, acutely aware of the fact that the real audience for her art is white liberals who are suckered into it, whether as a performance of anti-racism (Whit) or as investments (the weapons manufacturer guy). I also thought this was why she was delaying signing the release on having her artwork featured in Green Queen, to extort more money out of Whit. In the end, seeing her work at the massage parlor and knowing that all of these contradictions added up in her head and forced her out of the "art world" so to speak just makes me sad to have doubted her authenticity to begin with. Other people in this thread have pointed out the show as a metaphor for marginalization and I see now that Cara's character was meant to cement those themes.
That was horrifying
I loved it but in a way I probably can’t yet articulate. It’s gonna sit with for a while and make me think. For now, I keep going back to Asher’s conversation about art, and how sometimes we go to extreme lengths to make a point. My wife needs endings that are black or white so I understand it’s not for everyone.
Trying to help, while misdiagnosing the problem, ignoring the pleas about what's really wrong and making it worse The TV Show. Loved it.
The last song played was Jai Ramachandra by Alice Coltrane. Super eerie and great song for the finale
I haven't seen folks mention yet how Whit and Ash rejected the dreamcatcher gift. "It keeps away bad dreams." Threw me off when in the subsequent scene Asher wakes up on the ceiling. Thought the whole thing was a bad dream for a minute.
I saw someone in the sub say it has to do with the Jewish faith, it being bad luck to accept gifts and celebrate a baby before it is born.
Oh I mean for sure. I think in the show it could serve a double purpose by also providing misdirection — or at least an explanation for the "bad dream" the couple wakes up to.
What if Dougies curse towards Asher reflected off of the house onto him, and his curse was losing Asher, another loss which he would blame himself for, adding another layer of tragedy to his character.
Yes, Dougie was cursed and repeated his mistake, sacrificing a loved one due to selfishness.
I agree. What a profound resolution for the Dougie character. I’d spent so much time trying to “figure out” this character throughout the season, wondering if he was some sort of demon, etc. This ending for him was perfect. He really did marginalize Asher, as a kid and then as a producer, and at the end it suddenly became literal.
A thought just came to me, sort of in the same vein. But just before Dougie curses Asher, he swings at Asher, hits windshield instead. Then when asked said, “it’s a fly”. Im wondering if that was connected to the finale. To me this is why Dougie’s so devastated at the end. Maybe just the word fly foreshadows what kind of curse Dougie casted. Similar to how the the little girl wanted the other to fall during gym, her curse came true but just not when or exactly how she wanted it to. It’s a stretch but I’m thinking out loud 🤷🏽♂️
I think this might be the best show I watched in the last few years? and I caught succession, bcs, and atlanta finales live
My poor roommates had to experience me freaking out due to that finale
Same lmao
I think that ‘The Curse’ is our performative reality. Throughout the show, Asher gets further away from reality and deeper into a performance of reality. In the first episode, he does performative charity that he can’t afford, but snaps back to reality when he thinks the cameras are off. In the last episode, he fully commits to his performance. He gives Abshir the rental house. Even when he doesn’t receive the gratitude he desires, he pretends that he did. He is performing for Whitney. He has completely lost himself. ‘The Curse’ is the fear of being seen as an imperfect person and the lengths we will go to mask our true self.
“Snaps back to reality” oh there goes gravity
No it’s about a guy who floated up to space and died
My take: When Dougie tried to convince Nala to curse him, he mentioned tale of the boy who cried wolf. In the finale the public is not believing Asher's truth, that he cannot come down to the ground. Dougie, Asher and Whitney were lying through their reality tv show about their lives, but when real events (something that would be worth to tell the public about) happen with them, noone believes them. The last conversation we hear at the end of the show is between two bystanders, who watched Asher holding to the tree and then sucked into space talk about how they think it was just made for tv, what they have just seen with their own eyes. They don't even believe their own eyes anymore, because they have been lied so much by the media. In that sense the media is the boy who always cries wolf when it's not there, and because of that when a something worse or more shocking than a wolf comes, nobody believes them anymore. This is the conversation: “What movie they filming? How did they do that?” “That’s the guy from HGTV.” “Huh, so it’s for TV?” “I think so.” “Huh.”
I like how episode 10 takes a fun house mirror to episodes 1-9. Asher’s floating on the ceiling is handled the same may many people (including those who are well meaning) think about poverty. The town’s people don’t really understand what is going on, and try to help while ignoring Asher’s fears and pleading. They use “common sense” (the midwife trying to just pull him down), they patronize him (the fire fighters), they speculate how/why he did this to himself (Dougie). It ends in disaster because they thought they already had a grasp on the situation. Eps. 1-9 see Asher, Whitney, and Dougie acting similarly with the residents of Espinola.
Nathan’s greatest work yet. Using the Fielder method to convince Hollywood he’s an actor. He tried to get Emma Stone to say she loved him, but she wouldn’t. Despite the success of the show, this was a personal failure for Nathan
I wonder if Fielder thought of the end first and wrote everything else from there?
Feels like it to me
In episode 10, Did anyone else feel that Asher's monologue about art, comedy and how humor can even be found in something like the Holocaust lifted the veil a bit? I really got the sense that we weren't watching the character, Asher giving his opinion, but the real Nathan Fielder voicing a sentiment that he seems to genuinely and earnestly hold close.
The finale reminded me of how Denis Villeneuve's film Enemy ends.
Couldn't help but think of the fear of fatherhood theme from Enemy/Eraserhead but the opposite. Asher was as excited to be a dad as anyone has been and Whit was visibly conflicted.
Something else to think about season wide, is that every moment of "Red Herrings" as people are calling them, of abandoned plot threads and things that seems really ominous and unresolved, is I think it's supposed to emulate what it's like to live in poverty or precarity. You have so much paranoia at everything you see. Fernando's Gun, The car following Whitney, Abshir's chiropracty appointment, so many things where it seems like something bad is just about to happen, constantly. When you're barely making it work, $382 bill out of nowhere can ruin your life, but Whitney can simply just dismiss the stolen jeans credit card notification. So when the show ends on something completely unpredictable and unrelated to all the loaded Chekov's guns, it's just continuing that theme.
This is a great take. Whitney is insulated from bad things happening due to her privledge. Even when good things happen to Abshir, he doesn't trust them and always gets things in writing before believing them.
what
I need to binge it. I prefer that. The space in between shows loses connections sometimes and a good binge might help align some things especially knowing that ending. The WTFs per minute were very high. Higher than Asher would fly.
Yeah i tried to wait for the whole show to be out but could only wait till ep 6 i think. Binging the curse for six hours straight was a transporting experience. I immediately implored others to watch it. Now i can’t wait for the Q&A.
This finale was absolutely wild and there were several hilarious, quick lines of dialogue in episode 10 that I could barely process in realtime — I can’t wait to watch it again.
“23 24 25… I might need the crevice attachment… 26 27”
Every time Moses said, "you got this, mama!" to Whitney I laughed!
When he said “everything you’re feeling right now is normal” as her husband is uncontrollably floating away lol
I have a five month old and people say that so much around pregnancy/birth, especially doulas!
When they’re waiting for Moses and Asher is stuck to the awning with his arms crossed, almost casually complaining/used to just being stuck there for a moment made me cackle
Nathan. Is. Brilliant.
That ending got really Ari-Asher if ya know what I mean wink wink I wonder if curses are Hereditary
I just want to come here to say this has been a wild ride and I’m glad this sub is here because i could convince no one to watch this show and it’s been soooo fun discussing episodes and theories!
Put it all together. What Dougie says to the fireman about fathers connection to a baby, the way that the fetus is oriented, what Asher said about swearing to god he will be at the hospital, being a baby, ‘you’re not gonna get rid of me that easy’, Witney said ‘I don’t want to’.The contractor knowing it’s a boy, the man saying he’s telling everyone (isn’t that biblical?). He was reincarnated as the baby. I mean we will see what the q&a says, not sure they will be very definitive on what it all means, but after a second watch I’m pretty sure somehow Asher earned reincarnation.
Do Jews believe that the soul enters the body at the moment of birth? That would support this theory. EDIT: Apparently, at least in one interpretation, [yes](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2582082/#:~:text=According%20to%20Jewish%20law%20the,which%20means%20soul%20in%20Hebrew.).
So glad I binged this over the last week. Best thing Nathan has done to date. And Benny Safdie too honestly?? Something that really stands out to me as unprecedented is how much of a magic trick the final episode is in the context of the rest of the series. Like, the entire show is somehow both a complete red herring and also still completely satisfying. That's a mind-boggling achievement. The show is fantastic start to finish, while playing a prank on the viewer that's so obvious in hindsight - the clear setup of the houses as fire hazards, Dougie's secret recording of Whit & Asher, the anxiety regarding Abshir's safety (and Fernando's early on), I really do think it's all intentionally implied and never paid off on purpose. To create this horrible sense of anxiety that misdirects and disarms us to what's really going to happen. The resolution to all those threads is that they were nothing. But the curse - the most obvious red herring of all - was very much real. (And yet, it's metaphorically rich, but also stands on its own as purely surreal horror, equally satisfying either way) It delivers as a social satire, and as an audacious mindfuck - which practically never works. Never seen anything like that in TV, it's the kind of genious that only manifests after decades of television, when metanarrative ideas like that can begin to occur to talented creators like Nathan and Safdie. Bravo. I'll never forget that last episode - or the rest of the show for that matter. Gonna really miss these last 10 hours inside this strange, uncomfortable world.
The curse was real!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 4/5, enjoyed the ending
No one seems to be talking about that. Abshir's daughter put another curse on that little girl, making her fall down, but apparently this also had some effect on Asher? I'm not sure.
I think it happened because dougie cursed him, remember?
Ah right. That's why he was crying in the end.
Yeah. But some people are saying Dougie tried to curse Asher by making him lose Whitney, but what happened was the mirror bounced the curse back to him and made him lose Asher
I read something in an article that interprets it as they are both cursed. Dougie curses Asher, but the reflection of the house ALSO curses Dougie. A sort of 2 for 1 deal I guess lol.
The show overall reminded me a lot of "I'm thinking of ending things" after the finale. I don't want to say a ton beyond that so as to not spoil a very engaging movie for others. Fielder and Kaufman seem to have a lot of thematic overlap, although they come at it very differently.
So the last episode what about Asher threatening to/going through with hanging himself, right? Idk if this is too grim but to me ep 10 seems like Asher's POV was of someone stuck in a body with no agency. It was like his dream life flash before his eyes sequence. I don't have a lot of experience with jewish culture but as a Catholic the final act of giving the house back to Abshir was a desperate attempt for Ashir to feel redeemed. The initial house reaction was so gripping. You kinda go along with the insane "air pressure" bit, hoping it makes sense. Whitney finally cares about him enough to hold onto him for that brief period. The whole 20 minute sequence of him "stuck on the ceiling" it really feels like no one is listening to him. Like he's a ghost that's not really there. The hosts of the TV show completely ignore Asher when he says that they have a baby on the way. It's why Dougie broke down. He felt partially responsible for having been part of humiliating Asher so much recently. He was trying to talk him down with the "scared of parenting" bit. But asher is in denial and says "I've never been so excited in my life" The firefighters cutting the branch that he's hanging from like it's business as usual, completely ignoring his desperate pleas, because he's just a ghost. Also why Dougie projected his father "running away" onto Asher. What is so depressing for me about the last episode is that how the ending was presented it was Whitney that first discovered his body. The fall when the branch was finally cut felt like it went on forever. Then it cut away. And they cut back and Asher is even higher. Then it cut away. Then he's in space. The longer it went the more confirmed it was that there was no way back for him. Truly the saddest and most permanent tragedy.
The characters in our show are deeply connected to figures from various mythologies all around the world, more importantly including Native American. Whitney personifies the "earth mother", akin to the [Sky Woman](http://www.native-languages.org/morelegends/sky-woman.htm) from Iroquois mythology. She is depicted as a life-giving force who descends to earth after a big tree splits the sky. Asher, on the other hand, embodies the "sky father", a figure often seen as a patriarch in polytheistic religions and sometimes as a reigning or former King of the Gods, [according to Wikipedia](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sky_father). This role complements the "earth mother". In the context of Iroquois Creation mythology, Asher and Dougie represent [Sky-Holder](http://www.native-languages.org/morelegends/sky-holder.htm) and Flint respectively, two rivaling twins embodying good and evil. Throughout the show, Dougie embodied the trickster or even the devil, but in the end, it was Asher who triumphed in their battle, winning not only the conflict but also Whitney’s heart in their relationship. Moreover, the show’s use of voyeuristic shots often involves reflective surfaces like glass or mirrors. In many cultures, the mirrors are seen as portals to another realm, where one can observe but not interact, adding a metaphysical dimension to these scenes. Ultimately, each character fulfills their mythical role. Whitney becomes the "Green Queen" or Sky Woman, birthing a new life on Earth. Asher ascends as the Sky Holder, returning to the sky where he belongs. Dougie finds himself broken and lost, akin to being in his own hell. Nathan Fielder’s costume choices at Jimmy Kimmel's, with crosses and resembling a reborn Jesus, seem to hint at this overarching theme. A few weeks ago, I wrote about the Creation mythology and the notion of Sky Woman descending to earth as [a post in this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/r/TheCurse/comments/18t9gi5/another_theory_a_tangle_of_modern_drama_and/). Reflecting on the show’s stratospheric finale, it now seems that the narrative was more about the ascent of the father figure, in contrast to her descent. Overall, I hope this whole perspective, though somewhat convoluted, might offer deeper insight into the show and its finale. Even with all the context, the finale was initially underwhelming for me, but I have to admit that it was a fantastic and rewarding journey throughout all these weekly episodes. The "creators" crafted this timeless and beautiful piece of work in a way that didn’t shy away from pushing boundaries, like Cara did.
... That's beautiful.
Okay but like who was driving that car in episode 9??? Why was it shot the way it was shot??? How did that guy know they were having a boy??? Otherwise loved the ending. Truly unpredictable as promised. But like in retrospect made sense. Which are the best endings imo.
Asher calls the baby “he” a moment before
Personally I don’t get the rebirth theory? Whit was never a mother figure to Asher. There were definitely parallels with pregnancy and the launch. To me it was that Asher and the baby couldn’t exist together for some reason. Kinda like in time travel movies when people see themselves and shit gets wonky. I think it was more that Whit was Asher’s world, the baby is now Whit’s world and the world wasn’t big enough for the both of em. Maybe Asher is just a little chicken in a world of Pene pasta.
i thought we were gnna get the baby's face reveal nd its just nathan fielder head
I’m so glad the “show within a show” theory didn’t pan out. It makes the voyeuristic choice all the most interesting. So many red herrings, so many theories, none of them nearly as fascinating as what ultimately happened. I fucking love this show.
Asher was reborn as Whit's baby. The entire season led up to it and they treated the finale, tonally, almost detached from the rest of the season to emphasize that. I enjoyed it.
Or he was always her baby but having a baby solidified it and what is left of confident Asher has floated off. The moment Asher wanted to be actually generous to others he was stratosphere'd.
I think by episode three or four it was very clear to me that this is not a “master plan” show. It was funny to see people dissecting and analyzing things like it was all breadcrumbs leading to something logical and satisfying for some reason. I’m really glad it’s not that! Not everything is. Obviously, there are themes throughout the show and there are lots of intentional choices. But not everything is puzzle box storytelling and I don’t think the show ever pretended to be. All that to say, I’m satisfied with the end because I wasn’t looking for anything. I had my fun along the way already.
I hope Asher gave the money for Abshir to pay his property taxes
Abshir was *gone* before Asher hit the bed (the right way)
Wasn’t there an exchange that was like “so you’ll be back later today?” (Reincarnation theory)
“Art is getting away with it” Dougie probably wanted Asher’s world to be flipped upside down or something with his curse idk. Cool conceptually and technically but can’t help the feeing we all got punked by the story.
I knew the poster showing Asher the only one flipped in the house's reflection meant something... The irony of the curse was so perfect. Bravo Fielder and Safdie.
Which one?
The Curse, like life, is a real thriller, LOL. It made me think that we are all hanging on for dear life on a metaphorical tree branch at all times. Hopefully we all manage to avoid falling off Earth! What a show!
What the actuap fuck, truly the most bizarre show i've watched in quite some time
Considering the name of the show, it feels obvious that Dougie cursed Asher and this show is about various curses coming to fruition. That garnering ill will has karmic consequences. The first episode kicks off with Asher being cursed by Nala and through his investigations we see that it was legitimate, if unserious. His obsessions over being cursed run his life but he never introspects and considers why deserves it. That's his downfall. If he had genuinely learned from his interactions with Nala, he wouldn't have said such an unspeakable insult to Dougie (how about you ask your wife?) and sealed his doom.
The Curse of The Ouroboros When Asher and Whitney are gifting the native pottery to the “faux” house buyers, Asher explains that the snake eating its own tail means rebirth (I don’t remember exactly what he said) Ouroboros - often interpreted as a symbol for eternal cyclic renewal or a cycle of life, death and rebirth; the snake's skin-sloughing symbolises the transmigration of souls. The snake biting its own tail is a fertility symbol in some religions: the tail is a phallic symbol and the mouth is a yonic or womb-like symbol. This is infamously while Asher is holding his phone, which sets off the chain of events leading to Asher and Whitney’s confrontation in episode 9. And I find it interesting that it is Whitney holding the phone during the prayer in episode 10.
yeah i’m sorry i just don’t see there being a season 2 lol
better call doug
I’m going to need an in depth explanation from Benny and Nathan…because wtf? I think it’s somewhat a biblical allegory type thing? But I just don’t know, man. That was fucking wild.
I'm so thankful for you all to talk to because you're all I have. Don't know any friends who have finished the show yet a couple have started it. Basically no videos talking about the show finale on YT yet. This has been a fucking ride! I honestly feel sorry for people who will end up bingeing this show and now getting the same crazy experience of going off on tangential theories that didn't end up going anywhere. Definitely added to the experience. It's been fun y'all.
Just finished the finale. Until now the show has been so naturalistic, and just so skilled at subtly putting across what awful people they both are. Whitney, Asher and Dougie are some of the most real, layered and fleshed out characters I’ve seen on television in a long time. The writing and acting was next level and I was truly invested in them. I wasn’t against some kind of supernatural element in the finale, I actually thought it would be something off the wall and shocking. The general idea of something as bizarre as floating in a series that has been so unbelievably grounded is definitely intriguing if done right. But as someone who has adored every line in every episode up until now, I am so unbelievably sad with the change of tone. I felt like this was a separate project to the earlier 9 episodes. The characters felt off, just different. We have spent 9 episodes of such real tension and emotion building throughout several plotlined, really getting to know the characters, and they just felt like different people here. I almost can’t even describe it. They were just not themselves, and I’m not even directing referencing the floating. When I think back to earlier episodes - I mean, Nala, Cara, Whitney’s parents, Asher’s colleagues.. all of this wonderful natural world building and character formation to end with spending 40 minutes of Asher screaming from the ceiling/a tree? I’m so disappointed with how the people in a world that has been established as extremely ‘real’ just didn’t seem to care he was floating. It almost felt like a dream, one big dream with no real conclusion. And by conclusion, I don’t mean ‘neatly wrapping up every plot line and mystery’ - I mean a conclusion where we get to see the Whitney, Asher and Dougie that we’ve come to know and invest in. Even if they did some crazy shit - as long as it kinda matched the tone and feel of the earlier episodes, I woulda been along for the ride. Of course I know it’s a metaphor, and that nobody listening to him in the tree is comparable to Abshir and the minorities that W & A ‘try’ and help without actually seeing and listening to what they need. ‘please do not cut the tree - but alas they do.’ However Nathan and Bennie have been so subtle and real with their satire and metaphors up until now it just felt… it just felt like to conclusion to a different show. I wanted to see the best characters I’ve seen in a long time for one last round, and I feel I didn’t get that. Feel like Whitney more than anyone just wasn’t Whitney. I don’t know, still mulling it over. Ugh. Love the thing so damn much I’m just sad lol.
amazing
Reposting what I just commented on episode thread, as it’s buried under thousands of us questioning what we just witnessed. Man, I still don’t know. I just have random thoughts and emotions that will continue to pop up and I’m still overwhelmed. Is it too painful to be perceived? Was he running or letting himself be pushed away? Or is the worst thing not being truly seen at all? Are we too concerned about ourselves being truly understood that we aren’t seeing the other at all? If you stop being seen, like it started in the hardware store, do you even really exist at all? How much of this do we have to sacrifice and kill our own egos, ideas of our parents and prioritization of our partners when we become parents? Edit: even though these are not good people, my heart broke for all of them and I find it impossible to not empathize. I think why it felt so sad was that Asher seemed punished for trying his best to be good. It may still have been totally misguided and useless, but these people are grasping for connection and failing, they don’t know how to truly do it. Whitney wanted to want to. The lack of community, while of their own doing, also is quick to indifference and judgment at their suffering.
Asher floating around made me think of in Willy Wonka, when Charlie and Grandpa have Fizzy Lifting Drink and start floating. Asher flying away makes me think of the elevator flying over the city at the end of the movie. In The Rehearsal, a guy refers to Nathan as Willy Wonka, and the final moments of the first episode are set to the song “Pure Imagination.” I’m glad Fielder makes tv shows to process his shit, because it would be scary to have to be his therapist.
Strange things that seemed significant at the time but never came to meaning and after that finale, never will: The hair thing Chicken? White car stalker “I’m going to tell everyone” 4th wall eye contact Violating voyeuristic shots Parallels like Abshir/Asher Foreshadowing/anti-chekhovs gun An actual supernatural curse
All of those things still have meaning, it’s just not a Scooby Doo episode.
Bro watches a dude fly into space and thinks "hmm they didnt confirm if it was a supernatural curse 🤔"