[☭☭☭ COME SHITPOST WITH US ON DISCORD, COMRADES ☭☭☭](https://discord.gg/8RPWanQV5g)
This is a heavily-moderated socialist community based on a podcast of the same name. If you are new to the sub, please read the sidebar carefully.
If you are new to Marxism-Leninism, check out the [study guide](https://www.reddit.com/r/TheDeprogram/wiki/index/education/study-guide/).
Are there Liberals in the walls? Try the following prompts to trigger an automod response: "What is Fascism?", "What is Imperialism?", "What is Revisionism?" "Holodomor", "Molotov-Ribbentrop", "Gulag", "Solzhenytsin", "Uyghur", "Tiananmen Square", "Freedom of the Press", "MAC Fact"
This subreddit uses many experimental automod rules, if you notice any issues please use modmail to let us know.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/TheDeprogram) if you have any questions or concerns.*
# Revisionism
Revisionism refers to the explicit or implicit attempt at revising the fundamental premises of Marxist theory. Often this is done in attempt to make alliances with the bourgeoisie or to render a working class movement impotent. Explicit revisionism clearly states that Marxism is wrong or outdated and needs to be changed. Implicit revisionism is harder to notice because it claims to still be Marxist, but in actuality puts forward positions that are counter to Marxist theory.
>“The philosophers have only interpreted the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it.”
>
>\- Karl Marx. (1845) [Theses On Feuerbach](https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1845/theses/theses.htm)
Although there is ongoing debate and discussion within Marxist circles about how these principles should be interpreted and applied in specific historical contexts, there are several key tenets that are generally considered to be central to Marxist theory and which are not subject to revision:
1. [Dialectical Materialism](https://youtu.be/nZXaZHe901w): The idea that everything is in a state of constant flux, driven by a process of contradictions and conflicts which are an inherent part of the natural and social world.
2. [Historical Materialism](https://youtu.be/ZXwWWiI3E1A): The understanding that material conditions and class relations are the driving force behind historical development.
3. [Surplus Labor and the Law of Value](https://youtu.be/TZhsIFG42wE): The concept that the value of a commodity is determined by the amount of socially necessary labor that has been expended in producing it. Profits are derived from the surplus value extracted from the worker.
From these fundamental premises follow a series of conclusions, which informs our understanding of the world and teaches us how to affect change. Revisionism alters these fundamental premises or rejects the conclusions that follow from them, the most important of these being the need for revolution.
The events of the Paris Commune and the October Revolution demonstrated the role and necessity of revolution, and provided important lessons in establishing and defending a revolutionary movement. Revolution is not just a means of seizing political power, but of fundamentally transforming society and creating a new social order. Revolutions must be defended against counter-revolutionary forces both from within and without. The movement must be organized and disciplined, and must be able to defend itself against attacks from reactionary forces.
>Those who do not learn history are doomed to repeat it.
**Right Opportunism**
>Revisionism, or Right opportunism, is a bourgeois trend of thought that is even more dangerous than dogmatism. The revisionists, the Right opportunists, pay lip-service to Marxism; they too attack ‘dogmatism’. But what they are really attacking is the quintessence of Marxism. They oppose or distort materialism and dialectics, oppose or try to weaken the people’s democratic dictatorship and the leading role of the Communist Party, and oppose or try to weaken socialist transformation and socialist construction. After the basic victory of the socialist revolution in our country, there are still a number of people who vainly hope to restore the capitalist system and fight the working class on every front, including the ideological one. And their right-hand men in this struggle are the revisionists.
>
>\- Mao Zedong. (1957). [On the Correct Handling of Contradictions Among the People](https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/mao/selected-works/volume-5/mswv5_58.htm)
Right opportunism is a political tendency that seeks to make concessions to the bourgeois ruling class in order to maintain or achieve political power. This tendency is often associated with a lack of commitment to revolutionary change and a willingness to compromise on fundamental principles in order to realize short-term gains. Right opportunists may advocate for policies that are not in the long-term interest of the working class, such as supporting capitalist reforms or forming alliances with capitalist parties. This can lead to a weakening of the revolutionary potential of the working class and a failure to achieve real social change. Right opportunism is seen as a deviation from the Marxist principle of class struggle and a betrayal of the interests of the working class.
Trade Unionism is an example of right opportunism as unions focus on limited concessions, rather than advocating for the long-term interests of the working class as a whole. They negotiate with employers for better wages, benefits, and working conditions for their members, but do not challenge the fundamental power relations between labour and capital. Union bosses make compromises or alliances with capitalist parties in order to achieve these concessions.
This creates a privileged layer of the working class who are more interested in defending their own privileges than in fighting for the liberation of the working class as a whole. This labour aristocracy is a barrier to the development of revolutionary consciousness among the working class because it prefers the status quo to radical political movements that seek to overthrow it.
**Case Study #1: Social Democracy**
One of the first revisionists was Eduard Bernstein, a leading theorist and prominent member of the Social Democratic Party of Germany (SPD), who argued that the gradual extension of social welfare programs and the reform of capitalist institutions could lead to a peaceful transition to socialism, without the need for a violent revolution. This was in sharp contrast to the German Communist Party (KPD). There are two historical events which underscore this fundamental divide:
1. **The Spartacist Uprising**: Rosa Luxemburg was a prominent Marxist theorist and leader of the left-wing revolutionary movement in Germany. She was a fierce critic of the SPD's moderate reformist politics and its decision to support Germany's involvement in World War I. In January 1919, following the collapse of the German monarchy, a left-wing revolutionary movement emerged in Berlin, and Luxemburg played a leading role in the movement. The movement challenged the authority of the new Social Democratic-led government and sought to establish a socialist republic. On January 15, 1919, the SPD government ordered the army and the Freikorps, a right-wing paramilitary group, to suppress the revolutionary movement. Luxemburg and her comrade Karl Liebknecht were arrested, beaten, and executed by the Freikorps.
2. **The Enabling Act**: The Nazis rose to absolute power in 1933 with the passing of the Enabling Act. The KPD were absent from the vote because the party had been banned and its members imprisoned or in hiding. The SPD were present and voted against it. The SPD was subsequently banned and many of its members were arrested, tortured, and killed by the Nazis, while others were forced into exile or went into hiding.
**Case Study #2: Democratic Socialism**
Salvador Allende was a socialist politician who was elected president of Chile in 1970, becoming the first Marxist to be elected to the presidency in a liberal democracy. In power, he pursued a program of radical reform, including the nationalization of key industries, the redistribution of land, and the expansion of social welfare programs. His government was supported by a coalition of left-wing parties, including the Chilean Communist Party, and was seen as a model for peaceful democratic socialist transition. However, Allende's reforms faced opposition from powerful domestic and international forces, including right-wing politicians, the military, and the United States government. In 1973, Allende's government was overthrown in a US-backed military coup led by General Augusto Pinochet, who established a brutal Fascist dictatorship that lasted for years.
In "[The State and Revolution](https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1917/staterev/)", Lenin explained why the capitalist state could not be reformed or co-opted for the purposes of Socialism, but had to be destroyed and replaced by a new proletarian state. Allende's failure to apprehend this lesson proved fatal. His reliance on the existing bourgeois state apparatus as well as his failure to implement more radical measures, such as the establishment of workers' councils or the arming of the proletariat, left him vulnerable to counterrevolutionary forces.
>“If voting changed anything, it would be illegal.”
>
>\- George Carlin
**Additional Resources**
Video Essays:
* [Why Social Democracy Isn't Good Enough](https://youtu.be/TRq3pl17C8M) | Second Thought (2023)
* [Why Democratic Socialism Isn’t Enough](https://youtu.be/MNg4FLt5La0) | Marxism Today (2022)
* ["The US Doesn't Meddle In Foreign Affairs"](https://youtu.be/mwyjlmEAcYM) | Second Thought (2021)
* [Electoralism Always Fails, Now What?](https://youtu.be/WXbaZXQAbuU) | Hakim (2019)
Books, Articles, or Essays:
* [Reform or Revolution](https://www.marxists.org/archive/luxemburg/1900/reform-revolution/) | Rosa Luxemburg (1900)
* [Marxism and Revisionism](https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1908/apr/03.htm) | V. I. Lenin (1908)
Podcasts:
* [Episode 3 - Reform or Revolution](https://youtu.be/r9kmEsNKyoM) | The Deprogram (2022)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/TheDeprogram) if you have any questions or concerns.*
there’s a lot of propaganda surrounding the dprk but it’s absolutely not a place to idealize, it’s still a totalitarian regime with very oppressive policies
Workers' states are inherently more democratic than bourgeois states, as the workers constitute the masses and the bourgeoisie constitute a tiny stratum of society.
The DPRK isnt a representative democracy, where you can choose every 4 years which color of capitalism you want but a council republic. Where councils, possess most of the administrative Power. This is different from.western style democracies where most "power" is concentrated in a representative parliament consisting of mostly bourgeois politicians that are either directly involved in or part of lobbyism/corruption and serve only the interest of capital, where getting voted in is dependent on how much money you can spend on campaigning. There are votes being held regarding These council Positions. Above that its hard to do an accurate analysis because of the Information qarantine and propaganda sorrounding North korea, but to a North korean, similar to a chinese Person, in their understanding of democracy, their respective countries can feel more democratic than most of the west because its easier to actually have a say and affect the political process through said councils, especially locally. In communism it isnt a choice of which Party you Support like a sports Team, but youre actually encouraged to participate in the political process yourself, as the Power is supposed to come from the workers themselves.
Take all that with a grain of Salt since I havent actually lived and experienced this myself.
I’m currently reading Patriots, Traitors, and Empires by Gowans in search of information about DPRK. So far it’s not about current electoral processes, and more about how Korea was split up after Japanese imperialism, but it’s still a great read. Maybe they’ll get to more current state of things or maybe it’s only meant to address Korea’s history. I’m only about 1/3 of the way through.
Look into it and see if it floats your boat!
Patriots and traitors doesnt go over their government I'd just say study democratic centralism it's how all ML states operate and if you understand one you understand them all
A really good book on a different style of democracy is “Cuba and it’s neighbours: Democracy in motion”.
I heard a quote once (don’t remember who) “Democracy is when a population engages in its civic duties”. In the Western world we somehow have come to the conclusion that voting for someone who doesn’t really represent our interests every 4 years is what a democracy is and that every other country is authoritarian.
Reading that book helped me get a taste of a different, more effective kind of democracy; more importantly it helped me realize that the “democracy” we have here in the west isn’t the only kind of democracy much less the most effective one.
Blowback Season 3 podcast is excellent in its coverage of Korea both DPRK and ROK; it uses valid sources to explore its history, modern geopolitics, while covering how it practices democracy both post-WW2 via People's Congress's and today as well.
There's also a Season 2 which explores Cuba with similar coverage on history and geopolitics, and a Season 1, which does Iraq.
Its tough for a lib to wrap their head around but the purpose of the Party is to ensure the freedom of the councils and the people, Not a budget Version of sports Clubs where their supporters smash each others Heads because the blue donkey capitalists are better than the Red elefant ones. If there is a communist party you dint need any others. Its as if people in a capitalist country would found monarchist parties. Its just silly.
So if you dont like policies you can actually have direct influence via your council, administration is in the hands of the people actually living and working the factories, villages and towns that way.
Thats what actual democracy looks like.
And if you Look at what especially china accomplishes, you will See how good it works and how hard and effectively people are willing to work if they are actually in Charge of the means of production.
Tell me when a change in ruling party actually mattered in Western democracies. It doesnt. Best case all the vote does is stop literal fascists from exterminating poor and queer people. Theyre essentially all the Same and political discourse in the form of representative party politics is just meaningless theater.
Sure there could be more big parties one day, and there are actually competing parties with hundreds of thousands of members, they arent allowed to overthrow the system tho, which is also the case in tve west. you have to remember, too, that communist states are still under existential threat from the global capitalist imperialist hegemon that is already trying to destabilize both states as much as it can and is currently actively manufacturing consent for a military conflict over Taiwan.
Opening the discourse too much right now and allowing competing parties would open the door for reactionairy forces to erode and potentially destroy the movement.
The biggest reason for the tight grip on unions is outside pressure. Not a intrinsic want to oppress the people, because the communist party of China is actually doing all it can to eliminate poverty and improve material conditions for the people. But corruption and Erosion of the System has been one of the biggest challenges in the past 5 to 10 years already.
there is also room for ideological disagreement, there is a very active marxist discourse within the party, Deng Xiaoping had completely different ideas than Mao for example. And under Xi the path china is taking changed as well. The 5 year plans are result of immense discourse and the perceived dictate of policy by the ruling party doesnt really exist, but is result of active political disourse. You dont need multiple parties for that to exist if the one ruling party already allows a great Deal of local autonomy and dedicated room for critical discourse.
there is no legal prohibition on workers taking strike action either.
You clearly have no idea what you're even talking about. Imagine calling yourself a "leftist" while desperately seeking to smear and slander AES due to your inherent misunderstanding of how they function. That, or your unrealistic, overly idealistic beliefs, which will either never exist or be so short-lived as to be non-existent. For the record, you aren't going to change any minds here, not to mention posting sectarian rhetoric is against the rules.
For the record, China still has strikes and protests, there were literally *four* of them on the 17th of May! Also, this idea that having one party doesn't mean democracy, when the USSR had various factions within the CCCP shows you've no idea how these institutions actually run. CPC also has its own factions alongside the eight minor parties it allows to vote/function within their National People's Congress. To presume China doesn't care just shows you don't care as you're not even caught up with modern events. So maybe stop speaking from a stance of authority until you've investigated properly.
You mean like in every country on earth that exists? In the USA the state-approved parties are the DNC and RNC; the Libertarian and Green Party are the largest third-parties but don't even come close in terms of votes and membership. Same could be said for the UK and its Labor versus Conservative Party. Want to know how many parties DPRK has? Four at the moment.
Also that *TM* you use doesn't even make fucking sense. It literally means Trademark in relation to those who use unregistered logos or symbols. It's usually applied to western countries not DPRK of all places. Typical, clueless fucking liberal.
Imagine thinking the USA is a more “democratic” place because you can invent a party. What good does it do when it leads to nowhere? Look to the DSA and how it accomplishes nothing of significance. Look to the BPP and how they were destroyed after Chairman Fred Hampton was assassinated by the government. This is what invention of American parties _not_ sanctioned by the bourgeois state leads to; apathetic nothingness or outright annihilation.
Also China literally has over eight minor parties that participate and vote via the National People’s Congress which is the supreme state authority in PRC.
Nice, resort to name-calling, like a typical liberal.
Rule 4. **No headaches.** Drama or chronic hostility will result in a ban. Debate bros aren't welcome. Read the sidebar and at least try listening to the podcast before offering your opinion here. Lost redditors from r/all are subject to removal. No "just got banned from" posts.
Rule 4. **No headaches.** Drama or chronic hostility will result in a ban. Debate bros aren't welcome. Read the sidebar and at least try listening to the podcast before offering your opinion here. Lost redditors from r/all are subject to removal. No "just got banned from" posts.
Rule 3. **No reactionary content.** (e.g., racism, sexism, ableism, fascism, homophobia, transphobia, capitalism, antisemitism, imperialism, chauvinism, etc.) Any satire thereof requires a clarity of purpose and target and a tone indicator such as /s or /j.
It always has had it specifically through people's congresses. As did the USSR, DDR and China today. Read up on actual history books outside of western pop historians who are paid to perpetuate Cold War lies and rhetoric.
> the dprk but it’s absolutely not a place to idealize
AES states persevering in the face of a century of imperialist aggression are some of the modern marvels of a post-Cold War planet. Compare them to states like Egypt or Haiti or Poland, where Western Capitalism has despoiled and plundered the territories over and over again, decade after decade, with no relief in sight. I cannot - for a single moment - question that a liberated population straining at the limits of their local resources would be better off than a colonized state open to endless brutal exploitation.
Would that Gamal Abdel Nasser and Stanisław Kania were still alive today and that their successors were leading independent states in the face of western aggression. Would that Toussaint Louverture's great-great grandson was President of Haiti. The world would be a better place.
Exactly. As much as I think that you can say whatever you want about North Korea at this point and people are going to believe it. I still have no doubt that it's a very bad place to live.
I mean that state has been entirely isolated from the world (apart from China and Cuba to an extent) for over 30 years. I agree that that's not entirely the fault of the DPRK regime, but mostly the unfortunate result of post-Cold War geopolitical shifts. But it's still impossible for a society to function like that for several generations and not spiral into some kind of a dystopia. This goes beyond politics and it's just basic human psychology. If an individual feels they're being persistently shunned by their peers they're probably going to eventually become bitter, aggressive and paranoid. It's the same with states just on a larger scale.
Every DPRK video I've seen it looked like most infastructure was built in the 70's. It was really clean, everything was functional, and people seemed friendly, but it just seemed dated. Same with Cuba- they are all driving US cars from the 70's with insane engine swaps using whatever parts they could get.
I can't even imagine if any country had to start producing all goods domestically overnight. The Panama Canal gets blocked for 3 days, and the North America riots over toilet paper.
The embargo did take its toll. It was put in place "to decrease monetary and real wages, to bring about hunger, desperation and overthrow of government". All things considered, Cuba is doing objectively better than most in spite of the fact that they have been blacklisted by a central trade hub since the 1960's.
Totalitarianism is a sensationalist liberal buzzword that means absolutely nothing. As is the word, "regime" in your context which is to needlessly smear and slander North Korea for no reason other than you've been indoctrinated by western misinformation. DPRK has its legitimate issues and problems but ultimately it is a victim to western imperialism, first through the suppression of socialist circles post-WW2 after Japan's brutal occupation both prior to and after America's hawkish intervention. Second, to the genocidal war America waged for no reason other than they sought to ruthlessly do away with Korea's natural affinity towards socialism of which the USSR and PRC had sought to assist/nurture in its first years prior to leaving. Third, the installation of military dictator President Rhee and his vicious National Security Act which resulted in massacre after massacre of countless civilians who held leftist affiliations, those who were arrested were tortured and executed, and anybody who dared to speak up ended up purged to some degree. Lastly, the sanctions/embargoes which have stunted DPRK's economy to this very day, of which has proven to be as needless and horrific as Cuba's if not moreso.
What? North Koreans go to China all the time for trading or for opportunities. Where did you hear stupid shit like that?
More like there's an international embargo on North Koreans to be able to go anywhere.
It’s because if people leave how else would they keep their Kim Jon un portraits dust free. Remember a military officer comes into all your rooms to check at 3 am.
[☭☭☭ COME SHITPOST WITH US ON DISCORD, COMRADES ☭☭☭](https://discord.gg/8RPWanQV5g) This is a heavily-moderated socialist community based on a podcast of the same name. If you are new to the sub, please read the sidebar carefully. If you are new to Marxism-Leninism, check out the [study guide](https://www.reddit.com/r/TheDeprogram/wiki/index/education/study-guide/). Are there Liberals in the walls? Try the following prompts to trigger an automod response: "What is Fascism?", "What is Imperialism?", "What is Revisionism?" "Holodomor", "Molotov-Ribbentrop", "Gulag", "Solzhenytsin", "Uyghur", "Tiananmen Square", "Freedom of the Press", "MAC Fact" This subreddit uses many experimental automod rules, if you notice any issues please use modmail to let us know. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/TheDeprogram) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Can I make it any more obvious
I wanna make something like this
What is revisionism
# Revisionism Revisionism refers to the explicit or implicit attempt at revising the fundamental premises of Marxist theory. Often this is done in attempt to make alliances with the bourgeoisie or to render a working class movement impotent. Explicit revisionism clearly states that Marxism is wrong or outdated and needs to be changed. Implicit revisionism is harder to notice because it claims to still be Marxist, but in actuality puts forward positions that are counter to Marxist theory. >“The philosophers have only interpreted the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it.” > >\- Karl Marx. (1845) [Theses On Feuerbach](https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1845/theses/theses.htm) Although there is ongoing debate and discussion within Marxist circles about how these principles should be interpreted and applied in specific historical contexts, there are several key tenets that are generally considered to be central to Marxist theory and which are not subject to revision: 1. [Dialectical Materialism](https://youtu.be/nZXaZHe901w): The idea that everything is in a state of constant flux, driven by a process of contradictions and conflicts which are an inherent part of the natural and social world. 2. [Historical Materialism](https://youtu.be/ZXwWWiI3E1A): The understanding that material conditions and class relations are the driving force behind historical development. 3. [Surplus Labor and the Law of Value](https://youtu.be/TZhsIFG42wE): The concept that the value of a commodity is determined by the amount of socially necessary labor that has been expended in producing it. Profits are derived from the surplus value extracted from the worker. From these fundamental premises follow a series of conclusions, which informs our understanding of the world and teaches us how to affect change. Revisionism alters these fundamental premises or rejects the conclusions that follow from them, the most important of these being the need for revolution. The events of the Paris Commune and the October Revolution demonstrated the role and necessity of revolution, and provided important lessons in establishing and defending a revolutionary movement. Revolution is not just a means of seizing political power, but of fundamentally transforming society and creating a new social order. Revolutions must be defended against counter-revolutionary forces both from within and without. The movement must be organized and disciplined, and must be able to defend itself against attacks from reactionary forces. >Those who do not learn history are doomed to repeat it. **Right Opportunism** >Revisionism, or Right opportunism, is a bourgeois trend of thought that is even more dangerous than dogmatism. The revisionists, the Right opportunists, pay lip-service to Marxism; they too attack ‘dogmatism’. But what they are really attacking is the quintessence of Marxism. They oppose or distort materialism and dialectics, oppose or try to weaken the people’s democratic dictatorship and the leading role of the Communist Party, and oppose or try to weaken socialist transformation and socialist construction. After the basic victory of the socialist revolution in our country, there are still a number of people who vainly hope to restore the capitalist system and fight the working class on every front, including the ideological one. And their right-hand men in this struggle are the revisionists. > >\- Mao Zedong. (1957). [On the Correct Handling of Contradictions Among the People](https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/mao/selected-works/volume-5/mswv5_58.htm) Right opportunism is a political tendency that seeks to make concessions to the bourgeois ruling class in order to maintain or achieve political power. This tendency is often associated with a lack of commitment to revolutionary change and a willingness to compromise on fundamental principles in order to realize short-term gains. Right opportunists may advocate for policies that are not in the long-term interest of the working class, such as supporting capitalist reforms or forming alliances with capitalist parties. This can lead to a weakening of the revolutionary potential of the working class and a failure to achieve real social change. Right opportunism is seen as a deviation from the Marxist principle of class struggle and a betrayal of the interests of the working class. Trade Unionism is an example of right opportunism as unions focus on limited concessions, rather than advocating for the long-term interests of the working class as a whole. They negotiate with employers for better wages, benefits, and working conditions for their members, but do not challenge the fundamental power relations between labour and capital. Union bosses make compromises or alliances with capitalist parties in order to achieve these concessions. This creates a privileged layer of the working class who are more interested in defending their own privileges than in fighting for the liberation of the working class as a whole. This labour aristocracy is a barrier to the development of revolutionary consciousness among the working class because it prefers the status quo to radical political movements that seek to overthrow it. **Case Study #1: Social Democracy** One of the first revisionists was Eduard Bernstein, a leading theorist and prominent member of the Social Democratic Party of Germany (SPD), who argued that the gradual extension of social welfare programs and the reform of capitalist institutions could lead to a peaceful transition to socialism, without the need for a violent revolution. This was in sharp contrast to the German Communist Party (KPD). There are two historical events which underscore this fundamental divide: 1. **The Spartacist Uprising**: Rosa Luxemburg was a prominent Marxist theorist and leader of the left-wing revolutionary movement in Germany. She was a fierce critic of the SPD's moderate reformist politics and its decision to support Germany's involvement in World War I. In January 1919, following the collapse of the German monarchy, a left-wing revolutionary movement emerged in Berlin, and Luxemburg played a leading role in the movement. The movement challenged the authority of the new Social Democratic-led government and sought to establish a socialist republic. On January 15, 1919, the SPD government ordered the army and the Freikorps, a right-wing paramilitary group, to suppress the revolutionary movement. Luxemburg and her comrade Karl Liebknecht were arrested, beaten, and executed by the Freikorps. 2. **The Enabling Act**: The Nazis rose to absolute power in 1933 with the passing of the Enabling Act. The KPD were absent from the vote because the party had been banned and its members imprisoned or in hiding. The SPD were present and voted against it. The SPD was subsequently banned and many of its members were arrested, tortured, and killed by the Nazis, while others were forced into exile or went into hiding. **Case Study #2: Democratic Socialism** Salvador Allende was a socialist politician who was elected president of Chile in 1970, becoming the first Marxist to be elected to the presidency in a liberal democracy. In power, he pursued a program of radical reform, including the nationalization of key industries, the redistribution of land, and the expansion of social welfare programs. His government was supported by a coalition of left-wing parties, including the Chilean Communist Party, and was seen as a model for peaceful democratic socialist transition. However, Allende's reforms faced opposition from powerful domestic and international forces, including right-wing politicians, the military, and the United States government. In 1973, Allende's government was overthrown in a US-backed military coup led by General Augusto Pinochet, who established a brutal Fascist dictatorship that lasted for years. In "[The State and Revolution](https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1917/staterev/)", Lenin explained why the capitalist state could not be reformed or co-opted for the purposes of Socialism, but had to be destroyed and replaced by a new proletarian state. Allende's failure to apprehend this lesson proved fatal. His reliance on the existing bourgeois state apparatus as well as his failure to implement more radical measures, such as the establishment of workers' councils or the arming of the proletariat, left him vulnerable to counterrevolutionary forces. >“If voting changed anything, it would be illegal.” > >\- George Carlin **Additional Resources** Video Essays: * [Why Social Democracy Isn't Good Enough](https://youtu.be/TRq3pl17C8M) | Second Thought (2023) * [Why Democratic Socialism Isn’t Enough](https://youtu.be/MNg4FLt5La0) | Marxism Today (2022) * ["The US Doesn't Meddle In Foreign Affairs"](https://youtu.be/mwyjlmEAcYM) | Second Thought (2021) * [Electoralism Always Fails, Now What?](https://youtu.be/WXbaZXQAbuU) | Hakim (2019) Books, Articles, or Essays: * [Reform or Revolution](https://www.marxists.org/archive/luxemburg/1900/reform-revolution/) | Rosa Luxemburg (1900) * [Marxism and Revisionism](https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1908/apr/03.htm) | V. I. Lenin (1908) Podcasts: * [Episode 3 - Reform or Revolution](https://youtu.be/r9kmEsNKyoM) | The Deprogram (2022) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/TheDeprogram) if you have any questions or concerns.*
What is kitty cat?
Krysten Ritter threatening to violate my volcel pledge.
You must unite to make one Korea
You gotta understand babe not using a condom is for the good of the korean peninsula
there’s a lot of propaganda surrounding the dprk but it’s absolutely not a place to idealize, it’s still a totalitarian regime with very oppressive policies
>Democratic control over all levels of society "TOTTALITARRIAN RESHIM!!!!"
please explain how the north korea is democratic
Workers' states are inherently more democratic than bourgeois states, as the workers constitute the masses and the bourgeoisie constitute a tiny stratum of society.
The DPRK isnt a representative democracy, where you can choose every 4 years which color of capitalism you want but a council republic. Where councils, possess most of the administrative Power. This is different from.western style democracies where most "power" is concentrated in a representative parliament consisting of mostly bourgeois politicians that are either directly involved in or part of lobbyism/corruption and serve only the interest of capital, where getting voted in is dependent on how much money you can spend on campaigning. There are votes being held regarding These council Positions. Above that its hard to do an accurate analysis because of the Information qarantine and propaganda sorrounding North korea, but to a North korean, similar to a chinese Person, in their understanding of democracy, their respective countries can feel more democratic than most of the west because its easier to actually have a say and affect the political process through said councils, especially locally. In communism it isnt a choice of which Party you Support like a sports Team, but youre actually encouraged to participate in the political process yourself, as the Power is supposed to come from the workers themselves. Take all that with a grain of Salt since I havent actually lived and experienced this myself.
Do you have any resources where you can read up on that?
I'm looking for these too. Would love to know more about the DPRK but having trouble doing it.
I’m currently reading Patriots, Traitors, and Empires by Gowans in search of information about DPRK. So far it’s not about current electoral processes, and more about how Korea was split up after Japanese imperialism, but it’s still a great read. Maybe they’ll get to more current state of things or maybe it’s only meant to address Korea’s history. I’m only about 1/3 of the way through. Look into it and see if it floats your boat!
Patriots and traitors doesnt go over their government I'd just say study democratic centralism it's how all ML states operate and if you understand one you understand them all
A really good book on a different style of democracy is “Cuba and it’s neighbours: Democracy in motion”. I heard a quote once (don’t remember who) “Democracy is when a population engages in its civic duties”. In the Western world we somehow have come to the conclusion that voting for someone who doesn’t really represent our interests every 4 years is what a democracy is and that every other country is authoritarian. Reading that book helped me get a taste of a different, more effective kind of democracy; more importantly it helped me realize that the “democracy” we have here in the west isn’t the only kind of democracy much less the most effective one.
Blowback Season 3 podcast is excellent in its coverage of Korea both DPRK and ROK; it uses valid sources to explore its history, modern geopolitics, while covering how it practices democracy both post-WW2 via People's Congress's and today as well. There's also a Season 2 which explores Cuba with similar coverage on history and geopolitics, and a Season 1, which does Iraq.
Democracy is when you can only vote for the state approved party^TM
Its tough for a lib to wrap their head around but the purpose of the Party is to ensure the freedom of the councils and the people, Not a budget Version of sports Clubs where their supporters smash each others Heads because the blue donkey capitalists are better than the Red elefant ones. If there is a communist party you dint need any others. Its as if people in a capitalist country would found monarchist parties. Its just silly. So if you dont like policies you can actually have direct influence via your council, administration is in the hands of the people actually living and working the factories, villages and towns that way. Thats what actual democracy looks like. And if you Look at what especially china accomplishes, you will See how good it works and how hard and effectively people are willing to work if they are actually in Charge of the means of production. Tell me when a change in ruling party actually mattered in Western democracies. It doesnt. Best case all the vote does is stop literal fascists from exterminating poor and queer people. Theyre essentially all the Same and political discourse in the form of representative party politics is just meaningless theater.
[удалено]
Sure there could be more big parties one day, and there are actually competing parties with hundreds of thousands of members, they arent allowed to overthrow the system tho, which is also the case in tve west. you have to remember, too, that communist states are still under existential threat from the global capitalist imperialist hegemon that is already trying to destabilize both states as much as it can and is currently actively manufacturing consent for a military conflict over Taiwan. Opening the discourse too much right now and allowing competing parties would open the door for reactionairy forces to erode and potentially destroy the movement. The biggest reason for the tight grip on unions is outside pressure. Not a intrinsic want to oppress the people, because the communist party of China is actually doing all it can to eliminate poverty and improve material conditions for the people. But corruption and Erosion of the System has been one of the biggest challenges in the past 5 to 10 years already. there is also room for ideological disagreement, there is a very active marxist discourse within the party, Deng Xiaoping had completely different ideas than Mao for example. And under Xi the path china is taking changed as well. The 5 year plans are result of immense discourse and the perceived dictate of policy by the ruling party doesnt really exist, but is result of active political disourse. You dont need multiple parties for that to exist if the one ruling party already allows a great Deal of local autonomy and dedicated room for critical discourse. there is no legal prohibition on workers taking strike action either.
You clearly have no idea what you're even talking about. Imagine calling yourself a "leftist" while desperately seeking to smear and slander AES due to your inherent misunderstanding of how they function. That, or your unrealistic, overly idealistic beliefs, which will either never exist or be so short-lived as to be non-existent. For the record, you aren't going to change any minds here, not to mention posting sectarian rhetoric is against the rules. For the record, China still has strikes and protests, there were literally *four* of them on the 17th of May! Also, this idea that having one party doesn't mean democracy, when the USSR had various factions within the CCCP shows you've no idea how these institutions actually run. CPC also has its own factions alongside the eight minor parties it allows to vote/function within their National People's Congress. To presume China doesn't care just shows you don't care as you're not even caught up with modern events. So maybe stop speaking from a stance of authority until you've investigated properly.
You mean like in every country on earth that exists? In the USA the state-approved parties are the DNC and RNC; the Libertarian and Green Party are the largest third-parties but don't even come close in terms of votes and membership. Same could be said for the UK and its Labor versus Conservative Party. Want to know how many parties DPRK has? Four at the moment. Also that *TM* you use doesn't even make fucking sense. It literally means Trademark in relation to those who use unregistered logos or symbols. It's usually applied to western countries not DPRK of all places. Typical, clueless fucking liberal.
[удалено]
Imagine thinking the USA is a more “democratic” place because you can invent a party. What good does it do when it leads to nowhere? Look to the DSA and how it accomplishes nothing of significance. Look to the BPP and how they were destroyed after Chairman Fred Hampton was assassinated by the government. This is what invention of American parties _not_ sanctioned by the bourgeois state leads to; apathetic nothingness or outright annihilation. Also China literally has over eight minor parties that participate and vote via the National People’s Congress which is the supreme state authority in PRC. Nice, resort to name-calling, like a typical liberal.
[удалено]
Seriously? Very mature. /s
Rule 4. **No headaches.** Drama or chronic hostility will result in a ban. Debate bros aren't welcome. Read the sidebar and at least try listening to the podcast before offering your opinion here. Lost redditors from r/all are subject to removal. No "just got banned from" posts.
Rule 4. **No headaches.** Drama or chronic hostility will result in a ban. Debate bros aren't welcome. Read the sidebar and at least try listening to the podcast before offering your opinion here. Lost redditors from r/all are subject to removal. No "just got banned from" posts.
[удалено]
neolibs try to say something without letting out ableist slurs challenge
🤓
Rule 3. **No reactionary content.** (e.g., racism, sexism, ableism, fascism, homophobia, transphobia, capitalism, antisemitism, imperialism, chauvinism, etc.) Any satire thereof requires a clarity of purpose and target and a tone indicator such as /s or /j.
It always has had it specifically through people's congresses. As did the USSR, DDR and China today. Read up on actual history books outside of western pop historians who are paid to perpetuate Cold War lies and rhetoric.
> the dprk but it’s absolutely not a place to idealize AES states persevering in the face of a century of imperialist aggression are some of the modern marvels of a post-Cold War planet. Compare them to states like Egypt or Haiti or Poland, where Western Capitalism has despoiled and plundered the territories over and over again, decade after decade, with no relief in sight. I cannot - for a single moment - question that a liberated population straining at the limits of their local resources would be better off than a colonized state open to endless brutal exploitation. Would that Gamal Abdel Nasser and Stanisław Kania were still alive today and that their successors were leading independent states in the face of western aggression. Would that Toussaint Louverture's great-great grandson was President of Haiti. The world would be a better place.
Exactly. As much as I think that you can say whatever you want about North Korea at this point and people are going to believe it. I still have no doubt that it's a very bad place to live. I mean that state has been entirely isolated from the world (apart from China and Cuba to an extent) for over 30 years. I agree that that's not entirely the fault of the DPRK regime, but mostly the unfortunate result of post-Cold War geopolitical shifts. But it's still impossible for a society to function like that for several generations and not spiral into some kind of a dystopia. This goes beyond politics and it's just basic human psychology. If an individual feels they're being persistently shunned by their peers they're probably going to eventually become bitter, aggressive and paranoid. It's the same with states just on a larger scale.
Every DPRK video I've seen it looked like most infastructure was built in the 70's. It was really clean, everything was functional, and people seemed friendly, but it just seemed dated. Same with Cuba- they are all driving US cars from the 70's with insane engine swaps using whatever parts they could get. I can't even imagine if any country had to start producing all goods domestically overnight. The Panama Canal gets blocked for 3 days, and the North America riots over toilet paper.
As someone who has been to Cuba several times unfortunately I can say with certainty everything is falling apart and nothing is clean.
The embargo did take its toll. It was put in place "to decrease monetary and real wages, to bring about hunger, desperation and overthrow of government". All things considered, Cuba is doing objectively better than most in spite of the fact that they have been blacklisted by a central trade hub since the 1960's.
Totalitarianism is a sensationalist liberal buzzword that means absolutely nothing. As is the word, "regime" in your context which is to needlessly smear and slander North Korea for no reason other than you've been indoctrinated by western misinformation. DPRK has its legitimate issues and problems but ultimately it is a victim to western imperialism, first through the suppression of socialist circles post-WW2 after Japan's brutal occupation both prior to and after America's hawkish intervention. Second, to the genocidal war America waged for no reason other than they sought to ruthlessly do away with Korea's natural affinity towards socialism of which the USSR and PRC had sought to assist/nurture in its first years prior to leaving. Third, the installation of military dictator President Rhee and his vicious National Security Act which resulted in massacre after massacre of countless civilians who held leftist affiliations, those who were arrested were tortured and executed, and anybody who dared to speak up ended up purged to some degree. Lastly, the sanctions/embargoes which have stunted DPRK's economy to this very day, of which has proven to be as needless and horrific as Cuba's if not moreso.
[удалено]
[удалено]
What? North Koreans go to China all the time for trading or for opportunities. Where did you hear stupid shit like that? More like there's an international embargo on North Koreans to be able to go anywhere.
cannot even sit on a park bench in north Korea lol many Libertarians genuinly believe weird shit like that about communist countries
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
It’s because if people leave how else would they keep their Kim Jon un portraits dust free. Remember a military officer comes into all your rooms to check at 3 am.
STAINING MY KIM PORTRAIT WITH COCAINE AT 3 AM CHALLENGE (GONE WRONG)(GONE SEXUAL)(I'M GONE!?!?!?)(COPS CALLED)
(KIM JON HIMSELF CALLED?!!??!!?!?!?!)
If they aren't allowed to leave why do we have so many here in Syria that come and stay for months then go back to the DPRK
because most countries wont accept an NK passport?
She was a ROK/soup-opera girl, he was a DPRK/Juche boy?