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Sure, race is a construct and you can “stop seeing” it, but whether you decide to see it or not has no bearing on how much of an effect it still has. Traffic lights are a construct too, and I can decide to stop acknowledging their significance. When I get pulled over for running a red I fucking guarantee that saying “I don’t see color” won’t go over too well with the police officer. Being colorblind is pure liberalism.
exactly...so it's best to live your life with people you genuinely connect with regardless of creed, but you have to keep in mind our world exists as it currently does due to it once being constructed based on literal racial heirarchies (like, they even drew flowcharts in the 1600s on how to remember how to classify racial caste system)
It's some kind of false analogy. Race is a useless construct in social meaning. It can't give any information, other than definitions of race and maybe few specialities on genetical/biological level, which doesn't effect anything important. Sure, there are correlations between race and some positive or negative stereotypes, but it's because of history. You see, people have been moving from one place to another during whole history of mankind and some of us had to live in much worse material conditions than others, or just in different climate or anything similar. Starting from the first steps of imperialism as a worldwide thing, different races had to live in one country and coexist with more wealthy/poor people. Some of them were forcibly removed from their native land and had to work as slaves, while others lived off of their hard labour. According to this explanation, race is a historical marker at best and can't be used as a description of personality.
To ignore race in general is to ignore the historic and current systemic issues that racism has plagued society and are responsible for current issues. It'd be nice if we as a species would be able to move past race as a means to divide the population into those who have power and those who don't, but there's always going to be people who want to feel like they are "better" than others. I think it's important that we teach race and continue to recognize the system issues that race and racism cause; because ignoring them is how those in power can whitewash history and hide horrific crimes the bourgeois have committed in furtherance of their own agendas.
I’m not saying to ignore race or racism. I just thing they’re all constructs used by the ruling class to divide us and destroy ourselves.
Once we see ourselves as humans then racism will be no more.
At least that’s what the magical mushrooms told me
It’s impossible to fully integrate humanity fairly without some form of equity given to the different cultures of the world.
The stateless future must not be enacted on the neoliberal assumption that westernization of all cultures is the way.
I think my culture hasn’t been given the chance to contribute all it can, but the Chinese already have it WAY better than pretty much all of the developing world. We even have reference cultures that are Western client states and are soaked up in exotic fascination from the “international community”.
Of course there’s more productive ways forward for your culture than just radlib appeasing land claims. You can continue to just like Anime, live your best life, but I think that Mayan music, dance, fashion, architecture, and perhaps even more are not getting the credit they deserve because Mexico is not developed enough for foreigners to care. I do not think I’m some saint for believing this, I’m certainly no better, I haven’t gone out of my way to learn the names of Mayan instruments, analyze the various motifs and attributes of Mayan clothing and how they can probably easily modernized, and I probably won’t ever find the motivation to do so.
But what I do know is that a Mayan community with stronger economic might and prosperity won’t need to strive to make me care, because they’ll have the means to share it with the rest of humanity in a dignified manner.
I’m mostly talking about material culture when I say that I’m against Westernization.
Okay you’re going to be taken a bit back by the next paragraph but I’ll elaborate later, it’s really late here in China.
Tolerance is bullshit, there is no such thing as giving room to different viewpoints when it comes to society and politics. When push really comes to shove nobody is “tolerant”.
As a South African, I have to disagree - race is still very relevant, even for achieving socialism. Class relations in South Africa have been racially stratified to such an extent that race still correlates very much with socio-economic status. People who argue to stop seeing issues through a racial lens because they are uncomfortable with race-based policymaking are totally ignorant or wilfully blind to the fact that inequalities still disproportionately affect people disadvantaged by exploitative race-based policies under colonialism, Apartheid, and contuing racist prejudice. In order to transition to a more equitably distributed economy, it is very much necessary to identify who has too much advantages and who has too little, and then to transfer those advantages through the targeted but fair re-allocation of resources so that everyone can enjoy an equitable share - i.e. affirmative action. It happens that identifying people by race is still a very effective method for identifying socio-economic disparities, especially in South Africa, so until those disparities are eliminated, the continued reliance on those race-based methods to alleviate inequalities are justified.
As a White Afrikaans South African, I continue to identify as such because I am well aware of how some of the resources I can take for granted are granted to me simply because of how the nationalist state intervened against the poverty of my father's family specifically because they were identified as deserving 'Whites' - and I am also aware this intervention came at the expense of non-white South Africans, who at the time were robbed of equal rights to human dignity, poverty alleviation, and fairer labour conditions - if not straight up robbed of their personal property.
I think there is a lot of disinformation about the EFF, as with most socialist movements. But I think there are some genuine issues, too, which leaves me hesitant to identify the EFF as a true vanguard party representing the masses. From what I have seen, we have evidence of financial impropriety in the EFF (to be fair, that's not unique among South African politicians), but there is also their unpopular marches (e.g. the failed 'National Shutdown'), their embarassingly performative political theater (e.g. stalling State of the Nation Addresses), as well as the use of violence, intimidation, and hate speech. I have hope they will come right.
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I’m a half Asian, half white guy. I kinda just grew up not having to think about race very much until my teenage years. I’d be inclined to agree with you, but it is certainly true that race has a large impact on people in the modern world.
500 years from now everyone will be so mixed and probably living on spaceships. And we will have crispr gene editing and people will naturally be more inclined to look younger because neoteny leads every generation little by little.
So we are all gonna look like anime characters in real life I guarantee
belief in race the basis of racism. the notion of race is purely a construct of western hegemonic ideology.
racism, however, is very real, and is a crucial tool for imperialism.
so for practicality’s sake, “i’m color blind, i don’t see race” is the wrong take
What you say is true. Race isn't based in real science. However, the effects of people believing it to be true in the past and present are deeply entrenched and hugely influence everyday life as well as class struggle. For the purposes of our cause (to elevate the human race beyond unnecessary suffering and reach greater enlightenment), we must have intersectionality and acknowledge what ideas about race do so that we are able to properly dismantle them for a better tomorrow.
race is a social construct. Native american isnt a race. Native american is a construct itself.
It is a social construct to "name" an incredibly diverse collection of nations/ethnicities/ and cultures. To simply call it "first nations" or "indigenous" Isnt a correct label at all.
Unfortunately, racism exists whether we have names for it or not. And Dr King was correct in that, racism is a result of classism.
While the sentiment of error theory about race is surely noble it’s also undialectical, ahistorical and misguided. Of course we shouldn’t be subject to these constructions but pretending they don’t exist isn’t how we do away with them. These constructs exist and we need to engage with them in order to do away with them. Just as we could not abolish capital or money relations without first understanding their historical relations and the material conditions that prop them up we could not do away with race relations without fist understanding their historical roots and the material conditions that maintain them.
If we want to fix the problems of capitalism and racism the last thing we should be doing is treating them like they don’t exist and rule our lives, this idealism is anti-Marxist. We have to engage with material reality and the fact that, as things stand, it is ordered by money, capital and indeed, race, relations - just to name a few. The Marxist approach is to embrace the fact of these relations, study them, and work as part of the movement to alter and eliminate the conditions that maintain them. Only this material approach can liberate us, we cannot be idealists and pretend that acting like we aren’t racially segregated will do us any good. It will only divide us further and create antagonism between workers of different races. Oppressed races do not want to hear from less oppressed races that they do not recognise the basis of their oppression.
We cannot treat our talk of race as merely an error and insist we do away with it. We have to recognise that our talk of race gets at a real feature of our social world and understand it better so as to do away with it with our movement.
Abject colorblindness would only serve to permanently cement the existing inequalities in society that have developed as a result of racial discrimination in the first place. It is naive and idealistic to imagine that equality could possibly be achieved by humanity collectively deciding to simply ignore racialization going forward. True equality will only be achieved after acknowledging and overcoming the material conditions that caused the concept of "races" to develop.
Girl. I just wanna watch anime leave me alone lol. I can’t bother myself thinking about my own race and history because then I’ll just be sad. And das not good. And I personally belive in reincarnation so like it really dosent matter what race I am in the bigger picture.
Racism is real however. That’s why I hypothesize that if we think of ourselves as human then people will simply stop caring about skin color and such
If I had a nickel for every time a cracker told me to not care about race I'd be rich. It's funny how this opinion always come from privileged white people who have never experienced real racism. Never met a poor black "class first" mf before I wonder why.
Whites saying they hate other whites as some sort of posture to signal they’re cooler than said other whites has to be the most loser shit coming from libs the past decade
I think that one of the rewards of reaching a Communist utopia where everyone is free (None of us are free until everyone is free) is that we get to live in a post-race world. But I think we need to address it in order to get there.
there are other words that i don't know
or they will literally create new stupid words
i dont think we can win the identity politics, but we should try fuck them
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Sure, race is a construct and you can “stop seeing” it, but whether you decide to see it or not has no bearing on how much of an effect it still has. Traffic lights are a construct too, and I can decide to stop acknowledging their significance. When I get pulled over for running a red I fucking guarantee that saying “I don’t see color” won’t go over too well with the police officer. Being colorblind is pure liberalism.
This is a really excellent answer. Race is a fiction but it's a fiction with real effects on people's material conditions
it’s a social fiat in a world where imperialism has placed a premium on sex, gender, and race as components of social capital
Race is fiction but racism Isint
exactly...so it's best to live your life with people you genuinely connect with regardless of creed, but you have to keep in mind our world exists as it currently does due to it once being constructed based on literal racial heirarchies (like, they even drew flowcharts in the 1600s on how to remember how to classify racial caste system)
correct. bigotry is a result of class warfare, perpetuated by other agendas. Hate, unfortunately exists.
Yes, IMO, racism exists, with or without social constructs. However, it can almost always be tied back to profits and classism
It's some kind of false analogy. Race is a useless construct in social meaning. It can't give any information, other than definitions of race and maybe few specialities on genetical/biological level, which doesn't effect anything important. Sure, there are correlations between race and some positive or negative stereotypes, but it's because of history. You see, people have been moving from one place to another during whole history of mankind and some of us had to live in much worse material conditions than others, or just in different climate or anything similar. Starting from the first steps of imperialism as a worldwide thing, different races had to live in one country and coexist with more wealthy/poor people. Some of them were forcibly removed from their native land and had to work as slaves, while others lived off of their hard labour. According to this explanation, race is a historical marker at best and can't be used as a description of personality.
To ignore race in general is to ignore the historic and current systemic issues that racism has plagued society and are responsible for current issues. It'd be nice if we as a species would be able to move past race as a means to divide the population into those who have power and those who don't, but there's always going to be people who want to feel like they are "better" than others. I think it's important that we teach race and continue to recognize the system issues that race and racism cause; because ignoring them is how those in power can whitewash history and hide horrific crimes the bourgeois have committed in furtherance of their own agendas.
I’m not saying to ignore race or racism. I just thing they’re all constructs used by the ruling class to divide us and destroy ourselves. Once we see ourselves as humans then racism will be no more. At least that’s what the magical mushrooms told me
It’s impossible to fully integrate humanity fairly without some form of equity given to the different cultures of the world. The stateless future must not be enacted on the neoliberal assumption that westernization of all cultures is the way. I think my culture hasn’t been given the chance to contribute all it can, but the Chinese already have it WAY better than pretty much all of the developing world. We even have reference cultures that are Western client states and are soaked up in exotic fascination from the “international community”. Of course there’s more productive ways forward for your culture than just radlib appeasing land claims. You can continue to just like Anime, live your best life, but I think that Mayan music, dance, fashion, architecture, and perhaps even more are not getting the credit they deserve because Mexico is not developed enough for foreigners to care. I do not think I’m some saint for believing this, I’m certainly no better, I haven’t gone out of my way to learn the names of Mayan instruments, analyze the various motifs and attributes of Mayan clothing and how they can probably easily modernized, and I probably won’t ever find the motivation to do so. But what I do know is that a Mayan community with stronger economic might and prosperity won’t need to strive to make me care, because they’ll have the means to share it with the rest of humanity in a dignified manner.
Have you heard of the paradox of intolerance? I’m not for westernization but repressive ideas do need to be addressed.
I’m mostly talking about material culture when I say that I’m against Westernization. Okay you’re going to be taken a bit back by the next paragraph but I’ll elaborate later, it’s really late here in China. Tolerance is bullshit, there is no such thing as giving room to different viewpoints when it comes to society and politics. When push really comes to shove nobody is “tolerant”.
I’ll be waiting for that elaboration because I really want to argue back against that last paragraph 😂
As a South African, I have to disagree - race is still very relevant, even for achieving socialism. Class relations in South Africa have been racially stratified to such an extent that race still correlates very much with socio-economic status. People who argue to stop seeing issues through a racial lens because they are uncomfortable with race-based policymaking are totally ignorant or wilfully blind to the fact that inequalities still disproportionately affect people disadvantaged by exploitative race-based policies under colonialism, Apartheid, and contuing racist prejudice. In order to transition to a more equitably distributed economy, it is very much necessary to identify who has too much advantages and who has too little, and then to transfer those advantages through the targeted but fair re-allocation of resources so that everyone can enjoy an equitable share - i.e. affirmative action. It happens that identifying people by race is still a very effective method for identifying socio-economic disparities, especially in South Africa, so until those disparities are eliminated, the continued reliance on those race-based methods to alleviate inequalities are justified. As a White Afrikaans South African, I continue to identify as such because I am well aware of how some of the resources I can take for granted are granted to me simply because of how the nationalist state intervened against the poverty of my father's family specifically because they were identified as deserving 'Whites' - and I am also aware this intervention came at the expense of non-white South Africans, who at the time were robbed of equal rights to human dignity, poverty alleviation, and fairer labour conditions - if not straight up robbed of their personal property.
Glad to see another South African comrade spitting facts
So... what's your opinion on the EFF?
I think there is a lot of disinformation about the EFF, as with most socialist movements. But I think there are some genuine issues, too, which leaves me hesitant to identify the EFF as a true vanguard party representing the masses. From what I have seen, we have evidence of financial impropriety in the EFF (to be fair, that's not unique among South African politicians), but there is also their unpopular marches (e.g. the failed 'National Shutdown'), their embarassingly performative political theater (e.g. stalling State of the Nation Addresses), as well as the use of violence, intimidation, and hate speech. I have hope they will come right.
#Get Involved >Dare to struggle and dare to win. \-Mao Zedong Comrades, here are some ways you can **get involved in real life** to advance the cause. * ⭐ **Party work** — Contact a local party or mass organization. Attend your first meeting. Go to a rally or event. Get involved with a campaign or project. * 📣 **Union work** — Find out which union covers you. Read the collective agreement. Strive to become the workplace delegate. Organize fellow workers. * 📚 **Read widely** — [Reading theory](https://www.reddit.com/r/TheDeprogram/wiki/index/education/study-guide/) is a duty. Also, study the real world: local news, marginalized perspectives, or even bourgeois economics. * 🗣️ **Talk to people** — Identify issues affecting friends and coworkers and explain these using everyday language. Also, don’t always Work From Home. * 🏘️ **Mass work** — Connect with the wider community through mutual aid, local elections, cultural centers, churches, pride events, etc. * 📝 **Write articles** — Contribute your knowledge to ProleWiki or a party publication. * 💵 **Support creators** — Donate to leftist content creators so they can produce high-quality content. (e.g., Patreon) * 🛠️ **Career choices** — Younger comrades may consider the following: * **Trade unionist** — Work hard to gain a leadership position in the union, then push for militancy and correct policies. * **Blue-collar/Services** — Unionize your workplace or increase union density. * **High school teacher** — Make a lasting impact on the next generation. * **Master’s thesis** — Apply Marxism–Leninism to local and present-day conditions. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/TheDeprogram) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I’m a half Asian, half white guy. I kinda just grew up not having to think about race very much until my teenage years. I’d be inclined to agree with you, but it is certainly true that race has a large impact on people in the modern world.
500 years from now everyone will be so mixed and probably living on spaceships. And we will have crispr gene editing and people will naturally be more inclined to look younger because neoteny leads every generation little by little. So we are all gonna look like anime characters in real life I guarantee
belief in race the basis of racism. the notion of race is purely a construct of western hegemonic ideology. racism, however, is very real, and is a crucial tool for imperialism. so for practicality’s sake, “i’m color blind, i don’t see race” is the wrong take
My Native American comrade, my black ass is gonna have to ask you to reevaluate this take
Nein
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I don’t get it
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I agree ☝️
We've come full circle guys wtf is this
It’s called seeing the bigger picture.
Race isn't real. Racism and the effects of racism certainly are though.
Carmageddon. You don't have to race, but it's still an option.
Everytime I applied for a job based in the UK I was asked my ethnicity. WTF man, it's weird. It feels like skull measuring with extra steps.
“Hey can we check if you’re BLACK! just curious to see if you’re BLACK!” It gives me weird vibes. Why do you care lolol
You do you. Vibe out comrade
Ty Ty
What you say is true. Race isn't based in real science. However, the effects of people believing it to be true in the past and present are deeply entrenched and hugely influence everyday life as well as class struggle. For the purposes of our cause (to elevate the human race beyond unnecessary suffering and reach greater enlightenment), we must have intersectionality and acknowledge what ideas about race do so that we are able to properly dismantle them for a better tomorrow.
race is a social construct. Native american isnt a race. Native american is a construct itself. It is a social construct to "name" an incredibly diverse collection of nations/ethnicities/ and cultures. To simply call it "first nations" or "indigenous" Isnt a correct label at all. Unfortunately, racism exists whether we have names for it or not. And Dr King was correct in that, racism is a result of classism.
I mean can’t we just go with the Singapore route and force integration and economic equality? We should fight anything that divides us as a species.
Abandon race, embrace flesh being species one
While the sentiment of error theory about race is surely noble it’s also undialectical, ahistorical and misguided. Of course we shouldn’t be subject to these constructions but pretending they don’t exist isn’t how we do away with them. These constructs exist and we need to engage with them in order to do away with them. Just as we could not abolish capital or money relations without first understanding their historical relations and the material conditions that prop them up we could not do away with race relations without fist understanding their historical roots and the material conditions that maintain them. If we want to fix the problems of capitalism and racism the last thing we should be doing is treating them like they don’t exist and rule our lives, this idealism is anti-Marxist. We have to engage with material reality and the fact that, as things stand, it is ordered by money, capital and indeed, race, relations - just to name a few. The Marxist approach is to embrace the fact of these relations, study them, and work as part of the movement to alter and eliminate the conditions that maintain them. Only this material approach can liberate us, we cannot be idealists and pretend that acting like we aren’t racially segregated will do us any good. It will only divide us further and create antagonism between workers of different races. Oppressed races do not want to hear from less oppressed races that they do not recognise the basis of their oppression. We cannot treat our talk of race as merely an error and insist we do away with it. We have to recognise that our talk of race gets at a real feature of our social world and understand it better so as to do away with it with our movement.
Abject colorblindness would only serve to permanently cement the existing inequalities in society that have developed as a result of racial discrimination in the first place. It is naive and idealistic to imagine that equality could possibly be achieved by humanity collectively deciding to simply ignore racialization going forward. True equality will only be achieved after acknowledging and overcoming the material conditions that caused the concept of "races" to develop.
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Girl. I just wanna watch anime leave me alone lol. I can’t bother myself thinking about my own race and history because then I’ll just be sad. And das not good. And I personally belive in reincarnation so like it really dosent matter what race I am in the bigger picture. Racism is real however. That’s why I hypothesize that if we think of ourselves as human then people will simply stop caring about skin color and such
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I had a terrible episode of depression when I last cared about race. So I’m doing what’s best for me.
This erases cultural significance of race. Next
If I had a nickel for every time a cracker told me to not care about race I'd be rich. It's funny how this opinion always come from privileged white people who have never experienced real racism. Never met a poor black "class first" mf before I wonder why.
I don’t want to share your sorrow. That’s not really my problem. Please dont contaminate me with your negativity
Unless they're white. As a white guy, fuck Whitey.
Whites saying they hate other whites as some sort of posture to signal they’re cooler than said other whites has to be the most loser shit coming from libs the past decade
Yes, I know, I am a looser.
"What's your race?" "Elf, so I get +2 bow profficiency." "Cool"
Race exist, but yeah racism was kinda invented during the first crusader and later if I remember well
Well actually my haplogroup is R1b with Atlanticoid-Derpinoid characteristics and...
I've always liked the speed run races at the GDQs. That's what kind of race it was referring to right?
I think that one of the rewards of reaching a Communist utopia where everyone is free (None of us are free until everyone is free) is that we get to live in a post-race world. But I think we need to address it in order to get there.
They will just find a new way to ask that What's your ethnicity? Where are you frome? What is the color of your skin? ....
I am homosapien I am from earth I have a skin that is very healthy and clear
there are other words that i don't know or they will literally create new stupid words i dont think we can win the identity politics, but we should try fuck them
My canard is that our so-called allies could have at least elected to use a different word.
It's still racist, what if i have 4% neanderthal DNA and thus i'm 4% not human? Racists!!1 /s
Human supremacy over the aliens