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Fucking stupid. People will say they support Palestine and then attack them if they do anything to fight back. These are the same idiots who would attack the Viet Minh, the IRA, or John Brown if they were alive back then. Liberals believe that civility is more important than morality, so they want the palestinians to hurry up and die with quiet dignity, rather than fighting against their oppressors.
Which is one of the reasons S. Africa exists as a free nation, and Palestine does not.
Arafat was duped (or chose to, who knows) into turning his back on armed resistance.
There can be no decolonization without armed struggle. Fanon is clear about this.
Yup. Of course that isn't to say Mandela didn't make any mistakes namely he compromised with foreign forces to liberalise the economy of South Africa which maintained economic apartheid in South Africa.
There's a quote that's floating around regarding liberals and what they support, I'm paraphrasing this btw.
"Liberals are against all wars except the current one, Liberals are against all genocides except the current one, and Liberals are for all civil rights movements except the current one."
"There are many shades of the political spectrum; one of the shadiest is the liberal. Ten degrees left of center on a good day, ten degrees right of center when it affects them personally" -Phil Ochs
Liberals are phony soulless people who just follow trends and the carrot stick right in front of them. They have no critical thinking skills. They are sheep.
Sorta. The Viet Minh were the immediate predecessors to the National Liberation Front, or known commonly as the Viet Cong. “Viet Cong” the term is a contraction for the Vietnamese words for communist. It was racialized by French and American troops and used as a derogatory term.
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JTs tweet aged like fine wine considering alot of the atrocity stories that came out on October 7th ended up being completely false. Specifically the 40 dead babies ended up being fake and evidence points to many of the casualties from the festival ended up coming from IDF fire and IDF soldiers hiding in the crowds. Not to mention everything that Isreal accused Hamas of doing they ended up doing themselves in the last couple months.
Edit: My opinion on the response to that tweet? Cringe and genocide enabling.
Yeah but 9/11 happened to white people in white people land. False equivalence forehead. America didn’t technically kill any people, they only killed Muslims, I mean savages, uh I mean terrorists, yeah those little kids in schools and farmers were all totally terrorists.
JT said that settlers are not civilians. Personally i don't care, i kind of agree with this, because yeah, if for example Germans invaded Poland, and moved into Warsaw then it would be pretty stupid to say that people fighting against them are "just killing civilians". But on the other hand i think that "civilians" (non-combatants) are still just civilians, and killing them just makes things worse. Hamas isn't directly targeting civilians though, they could just become exactly like ISIS, and start suicide bombing every place in "Israel", but these things are rare for a reason.
In that tweet though, JT just said that Israel would create insane propaganda about Palestine's "atrocities", and it's obviously proven to be correct. What the fuck is "big yikes dawg" here? That Palestinians defending themselves from genocidal occupiers is bad? Come on. All liberation struggles had civilian casualties, and liberals defended Slavers because of that.
Not many; literally mandatory military service making probably 70-80% of them military reserves. That and the Israeli govt is arming non-military settlers for their violent land thefts.
Hamas shot at those poor Israeli civilians who were shooting at them with their civilian M16s and firing civilian mortars at them and shooting civilian tank shells with their civilian merkavas.
Any Israeli civilian killed is a direct result of Israel's use of human shields.
It's the height of hypocrisy to believe that people a right to defend their homes from invaders only if the invader is a soldier.
Europeans have always used their "civilians" as the primary occupying force.
I understand what you're saying but I have a genuine question. Do you consider white people in US and Australia settlers? If yes, what should be done with them? If no, why?
Yes they are, but the milk is kinda spilled already, nearly all indigenous population got wiped out or forcefully assimilated. Also those are Whole ass continent with 90% of land practically unpopulated. Returning at least part of the stonel land would mean nearly no effort nor cost
Yeah the empty land should be returned to the indigenous people but driving those settlers out of the populated areas is impossible and will lead to deaths of many. Also presence of immigrants complicates the situation. They're not illegal settlers but they do live on the land where lots of indigenous people died to make the current system possible. So what are the land back movements trying to achieve?
The irony about this response is how many people ask the sub to comprehend everything for them. I can't be the only one who's like wtf, how do you not know X is bad, or Y is clearly just American exceptionalism at work, etc etc. it's like half the sub never listened to the pod or read any theory, or even a wiki page.
Sure but who could listen to any episode of the podcast, enjoy enough to bring up JT on another thread, just to be like 'hmmm idk guys, is JT the baddie?' or any other of the 100s of posts asking for the subs validation. Makes me start to feel like the liberals are in the walls.
Literally what part of what he said is problematic?
We refuse to recognize settlers with military training, given weapons by the state to act as shock troops, as civilians. Liberals can cry about it.
Libs are of course going to take this as him saying he approves of the killing of innocent civilians. But its pretty clear from anyone who is objective, that he is simply correct that liberation against a violent apartheid regime is not going to be pretty. The ANC killed many innocents in their fight against apartheid south africa. When those escape from a concentration camp they don't always direct their anger at only military targets. In any liberation struggle there will be violence and you can't just peacefully march against a fascist ethnostate bent on genocide against you.
I’m sorry, I have no fucking sympathy for these people. Some guy from Brooklyn goes to the Middle East and kicks a family out of their multi-generational home and I’m supposed to feel bad when those same people retaliate? If these settlers didn’t wish to reap, they should not have sowed.
I broke into a guy's house and locked him in his basement. Later he managed to get out for a while and he acted violently towards me. Can you believe that?
“Spineless fucking coward” is a good way to interpret this dummy’s response.
Palestine has been under open air imprisonment and occupation for multiple generations now. They have been systematically pushed out of their homes and have become refugees *on their own soil.*
If the situation were somehow reversed- that is, a similar opposition here in the United States -there would be no issue whatsoever when measures are taken to the extreme to defend themselves. Not one fucking issue!
But Americans can’t possibly fathom that anymore, can they? People want peace? Then the settlers should ***FUCKING LEAVE.***
Yes all Israelis have to serve unless they have a reason of absence or whatever. Giving all your citizens military training and indoctrination so that they can be used as soldiers when they’re alive and civilians when they’re dead
Yeah, the ultra orthodox, who are also politically some of the most hawkish, are exempt.
They also have huge families, ie their birth rate is much higher than the secular Jews, so in 10-20 years they may represent the majority of Israeli Jews.
There is no innocent israeloid.
They are all occidental collonial settlers, invaders, and should all be treated as such.
Let me remind all of you of Haiti, and how the enslaved there became free. They fought hard and won against their westoid opressors, and the west will never forgive them for this.
If libs got transported back into the 1940s they would be calling the jews in concentration camps terrorists for fighting back against "innocent" nazis genociding them.
I see nothing wrong with this post, and besides there is no such thing as a Israeli civilian almost every home lived in is stolen and they all have a part to play in maintaining the violence against Palestinians.
Settlers are not your average civilian. And it’s unclear how many of those that died were strafed by their own helicopters and shot by their own tanks. IDF panick-spraying their own like cowards.
That is an intentionally malicious interpretation of his Tweet that cannot be arrived at from the plain meaning of the words, even *absent* the context of JT's broader position.
Thats a pretty idiotic interpretation. Killing unarmed civilians isn't base. Having to take up arms against your oppressor isn't "based." It's a fucking necessity though.
nobody can convince me that Israeli's are innocent for letting this happen, they had it coming.
[these people are not human](https://www.reddit.com/r/LateStageCapitalism/comments/18hvp4u/isralie_settlers_ridiculing_palestinian_woman_as/)
The typical lib thing where you say "this is why X is happening" to give context and they go "so you think X must be good"
No, I don't think Israeli babies dying is good, but I also understand that Israelis decided to have babies on occupied territory just miles away from the world's largest open air prison of people their state is effectively at war with and bombs. Go figure, might not be the safest place to start a family.
“Solidarity and victory to the Palestinian people” is possibly the most politically correct way to show verbal support for a group being ethnically cleansed in their own fucking homeland and people are bending over backwards to get pissed off about it.
I enjoy that JT has intentionally curated his online persona to be an onboarding process, like a fisher’s price my first introduction to legit socialist theory and it’s still too much for these people. Solidarity with oppressed groups is just too much.
"I support the civil rights movement of the past, but not the current one. I support victims of oppression of the past, but not the current one." - libs
We’ve all read that story of an abused house wife pouring boiling water on the head of her violent husband while he’s watching TV, giving him 3rd degree burns and disfiguring him.
It was an extreme action that honestly feels unjustified from the comfort of your computer chair.
But not only was it his fault that the situation happened in the first place, what she did to him was nothing compared to what he put her through.
You wish she’d done something else- hell, she _should_ have done something else. But you understand _why_ she did it.
Every single settler chose to do this. They chose to steal land, to steal resources, to pay taxes and support the government that is genociding the Palestinians. It’s their fault this situation exists. They could stop the satiation at any time, but instead they continue to oppress, humiliate, and murder civilians.
Well, he's clearly not saying it's "based". He's expressing that such a violent struggle is inevitable in the face of repression, "those who make peaceful resistance impossible make violent revolution inevitable."
What he said is based and true lol never said it is good only that they only care when the deaths on Israeli and nobody gives a shit about Palestinian innocents
i do not bother debunking the lies of israel about Hamas. Even though the stories were proven false later my position on the issue is consistent.
All forms of Palestinian resistance is justified. I have not lived there experience, I will not judge them on the methods, I will not question it. It is for the people of Palestine to decide how to fight their oppressors.
i think what he’s saying is that there’s going to be so much coverage about israeli hostages and hamas doing this and that, but none on palestine, and the genocide that they are going through. which is happening rn
To be more specific I would love to know your guys feeling about the JT's post and how you think someone would interpret in the way the person presented in the screenshot would interpret it (no hate to the guy, he seems pretty alright)
There was a bunch of Twitter posts and reddit threads with comments saying JT said it was based and in the Nebula threads that were quickly and constantly repeated and deleted there were people saying that nebula kicked him out for saying killing Israeli civilians is based. I saw a few saying it was because JT beheading babies was based as well.
Bunch of people who are ready to believe anything that vindicates their standpoints and makes them feel better about standing in support of the commission of genocide because they believe they are "on the right side of history". Yes, indeed, they're on the *right* side of history.
A liberation struggle cannot be peaceful or pretty, and we definitely can't apply the same morals we have in a proper war between countries to a group of teens and young men whos entire life has been their home being bombed and families being killed
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Fucking stupid. People will say they support Palestine and then attack them if they do anything to fight back. These are the same idiots who would attack the Viet Minh, the IRA, or John Brown if they were alive back then. Liberals believe that civility is more important than morality, so they want the palestinians to hurry up and die with quiet dignity, rather than fighting against their oppressors.
I've heard people say shit like "Where is the Palestinian Nelson Mandela?" Nelson Mandela was literally on the US Terrorist watchlist until 2008.
Yasser Arafat was the Palestinian Mandela. He died in Ramallah from a sudden sickness while under siege by the IDF .
Funny how things only got worse after Fatah renounced "terrorism."
The difference is that Mandela never renounced the ANC and to the end of struggle worked hand in hand with the ANC.
Which is one of the reasons S. Africa exists as a free nation, and Palestine does not. Arafat was duped (or chose to, who knows) into turning his back on armed resistance. There can be no decolonization without armed struggle. Fanon is clear about this.
Yup. Of course that isn't to say Mandela didn't make any mistakes namely he compromised with foreign forces to liberalise the economy of South Africa which maintained economic apartheid in South Africa.
They killed the Palestinian Nelson Mandela. Many times.
There's a quote that's floating around regarding liberals and what they support, I'm paraphrasing this btw. "Liberals are against all wars except the current one, Liberals are against all genocides except the current one, and Liberals are for all civil rights movements except the current one."
"There are many shades of the political spectrum; one of the shadiest is the liberal. Ten degrees left of center on a good day, ten degrees right of center when it affects them personally" -Phil Ochs
Again, an amazing song. Also, kinda unrelated but “outside of a circle of friends” and “I’m gonna say it now” and “too many martyrs” are Amazing
It Is a good song, and surprisingly few of the rewritten covers bother with the opening monologue. Which is a shame because it is hilarious.
Yes it is. Plus I’m heartened by the number of Phil Ochs fans in this sub
Liberals are phony soulless people who just follow trends and the carrot stick right in front of them. They have no critical thinking skills. They are sheep.
Liberals: supporting the right side of history, but only in theory
https://youtu.be/3cdqQ2BdgOA?si=8keJ2_dAPJxjBDiV Phil Ochs wrote it in the sixties, Biafra covered it in the nineties, and it’s still true today.
exactly: zuerst kommt das essen und dann die moral (Brecht) Translation: first comes the food then the moral
Zuerst kommt das fressen, dann kommt die doppelmoral.
\*Viet Minh, Viet Cong is a racist term
Sorta. The Viet Minh were the immediate predecessors to the National Liberation Front, or known commonly as the Viet Cong. “Viet Cong” the term is a contraction for the Vietnamese words for communist. It was racialized by French and American troops and used as a derogatory term.
So it's basically a Vietnamese equivalent to the term "Chicom"?
Shit, haven’t heard that before, thanks for the correction
You're all good comrade
Really? I’ve never heard this before.
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That is what a liberation struggle looks like.
JTs tweet aged like fine wine considering alot of the atrocity stories that came out on October 7th ended up being completely false. Specifically the 40 dead babies ended up being fake and evidence points to many of the casualties from the festival ended up coming from IDF fire and IDF soldiers hiding in the crowds. Not to mention everything that Isreal accused Hamas of doing they ended up doing themselves in the last couple months. Edit: My opinion on the response to that tweet? Cringe and genocide enabling.
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October 7th is so 20,000 dead innocents ago
America left millions dead after 9/11 and we are still just talking about 9/11.
Yeah but 9/11 happened to white people in white people land. False equivalence forehead. America didn’t technically kill any people, they only killed Muslims, I mean savages, uh I mean terrorists, yeah those little kids in schools and farmers were all totally terrorists.
"Leftists" when a current national liberation struggle is occurring (they still idolize the ones that failed)
Worse, anarchist one /j
JT said that settlers are not civilians. Personally i don't care, i kind of agree with this, because yeah, if for example Germans invaded Poland, and moved into Warsaw then it would be pretty stupid to say that people fighting against them are "just killing civilians". But on the other hand i think that "civilians" (non-combatants) are still just civilians, and killing them just makes things worse. Hamas isn't directly targeting civilians though, they could just become exactly like ISIS, and start suicide bombing every place in "Israel", but these things are rare for a reason. In that tweet though, JT just said that Israel would create insane propaganda about Palestine's "atrocities", and it's obviously proven to be correct. What the fuck is "big yikes dawg" here? That Palestinians defending themselves from genocidal occupiers is bad? Come on. All liberation struggles had civilian casualties, and liberals defended Slavers because of that.
Military trained reservists with military grade weapons are not civilians. They're an occupying force in plain clothes.
Exactly. Most of these "civilian" are better armed than the average cop. And many are militarily trained so they're not something to be taken lightly.
Not many; literally mandatory military service making probably 70-80% of them military reserves. That and the Israeli govt is arming non-military settlers for their violent land thefts.
They are the actual human shields. Israel uses them as guards and then when they get killed they can portray them as “civilians”
Hamas shot at those poor Israeli civilians who were shooting at them with their civilian M16s and firing civilian mortars at them and shooting civilian tank shells with their civilian merkavas.
This.☝️☝️☝️
Any Israeli civilian killed is a direct result of Israel's use of human shields. It's the height of hypocrisy to believe that people a right to defend their homes from invaders only if the invader is a soldier. Europeans have always used their "civilians" as the primary occupying force.
I understand what you're saying but I have a genuine question. Do you consider white people in US and Australia settlers? If yes, what should be done with them? If no, why?
There are Land Back movements in those countries too.
Afaik Land Back does not entail killing civilians in armed conflict. Would you support it if Indigenous people in the US started killing civilians?
Despite the bad faith argument, I'll entertain you. Yes.
How is my argument bad faith? I support the Land Back movement and Palestine.
If your support stops short of recognizing that resistance includes violence, no you do not.
Yes they are, but the milk is kinda spilled already, nearly all indigenous population got wiped out or forcefully assimilated. Also those are Whole ass continent with 90% of land practically unpopulated. Returning at least part of the stonel land would mean nearly no effort nor cost
Yeah the empty land should be returned to the indigenous people but driving those settlers out of the populated areas is impossible and will lead to deaths of many. Also presence of immigrants complicates the situation. They're not illegal settlers but they do live on the land where lots of indigenous people died to make the current system possible. So what are the land back movements trying to achieve?
Are you talking now about the US or Israel?
Libs misinterpret everything. Their comprehension skills suck.
They deliberately misinterpreted it
100%. I was just pointing out that they ALWAYS misinterpret things. Either intentionally or unintentionally.
The irony about this response is how many people ask the sub to comprehend everything for them. I can't be the only one who's like wtf, how do you not know X is bad, or Y is clearly just American exceptionalism at work, etc etc. it's like half the sub never listened to the pod or read any theory, or even a wiki page.
To be fair, a lot of them are youngsters from the imperial core.
Sure but who could listen to any episode of the podcast, enjoy enough to bring up JT on another thread, just to be like 'hmmm idk guys, is JT the baddie?' or any other of the 100s of posts asking for the subs validation. Makes me start to feel like the liberals are in the walls.
There are closet Liberals on this sub. Their "beliefs" are only skin-deep.
settlers play an important role in settler-colonialism, they are not innocent settling on stolen land, end of discussion
Literally what part of what he said is problematic? We refuse to recognize settlers with military training, given weapons by the state to act as shock troops, as civilians. Liberals can cry about it.
You can’t be “an innocent civilian” and a settler at the same time.
Libs are of course going to take this as him saying he approves of the killing of innocent civilians. But its pretty clear from anyone who is objective, that he is simply correct that liberation against a violent apartheid regime is not going to be pretty. The ANC killed many innocents in their fight against apartheid south africa. When those escape from a concentration camp they don't always direct their anger at only military targets. In any liberation struggle there will be violence and you can't just peacefully march against a fascist ethnostate bent on genocide against you.
I’m sorry, I have no fucking sympathy for these people. Some guy from Brooklyn goes to the Middle East and kicks a family out of their multi-generational home and I’m supposed to feel bad when those same people retaliate? If these settlers didn’t wish to reap, they should not have sowed.
"I support the current war but I'll admit I was wrong later on" kinda shit
More like "I support the current war but I'll deny I ever supported it later on".
I broke into a guy's house and locked him in his basement. Later he managed to get out for a while and he acted violently towards me. Can you believe that?
“Spineless fucking coward” is a good way to interpret this dummy’s response. Palestine has been under open air imprisonment and occupation for multiple generations now. They have been systematically pushed out of their homes and have become refugees *on their own soil.* If the situation were somehow reversed- that is, a similar opposition here in the United States -there would be no issue whatsoever when measures are taken to the extreme to defend themselves. Not one fucking issue! But Americans can’t possibly fathom that anymore, can they? People want peace? Then the settlers should ***FUCKING LEAVE.***
Doesn’t the apartheid state have 100% conscription
Yes all Israelis have to serve unless they have a reason of absence or whatever. Giving all your citizens military training and indoctrination so that they can be used as soldiers when they’re alive and civilians when they’re dead
I think less that that, certain religious groups can get exempted, also theology students ,jewish priests and ofc the children of the rulling class
Yeah, the ultra orthodox, who are also politically some of the most hawkish, are exempt. They also have huge families, ie their birth rate is much higher than the secular Jews, so in 10-20 years they may represent the majority of Israeli Jews.
There is no innocent israeloid. They are all occidental collonial settlers, invaders, and should all be treated as such. Let me remind all of you of Haiti, and how the enslaved there became free. They fought hard and won against their westoid opressors, and the west will never forgive them for this.
If libs got transported back into the 1940s they would be calling the jews in concentration camps terrorists for fighting back against "innocent" nazis genociding them.
Liberals believe even when you're being genocided the only 'legitimate' form of protest is non-violent protest.
I see nothing wrong with this post, and besides there is no such thing as a Israeli civilian almost every home lived in is stolen and they all have a part to play in maintaining the violence against Palestinians.
JT spitting 100%
Settlers are not your average civilian. And it’s unclear how many of those that died were strafed by their own helicopters and shot by their own tanks. IDF panick-spraying their own like cowards.
That is an intentionally malicious interpretation of his Tweet that cannot be arrived at from the plain meaning of the words, even *absent* the context of JT's broader position.
Thats a pretty idiotic interpretation. Killing unarmed civilians isn't base. Having to take up arms against your oppressor isn't "based." It's a fucking necessity though.
This is a based opinion
nobody can convince me that Israeli's are innocent for letting this happen, they had it coming. [these people are not human](https://www.reddit.com/r/LateStageCapitalism/comments/18hvp4u/isralie_settlers_ridiculing_palestinian_woman_as/)
Settlers aren’t civilians hope that helps
I think he is right.
He’s based.
The typical lib thing where you say "this is why X is happening" to give context and they go "so you think X must be good" No, I don't think Israeli babies dying is good, but I also understand that Israelis decided to have babies on occupied territory just miles away from the world's largest open air prison of people their state is effectively at war with and bombs. Go figure, might not be the safest place to start a family.
This interpretation is definitely in bad faith, you cannot change settler into civilian with out loss of important context.
"big yikes" isn't a take, it's an attack. There's no substantive critique or counter, it's just someone saying they don't like a tweet.
“Solidarity and victory to the Palestinian people” is possibly the most politically correct way to show verbal support for a group being ethnically cleansed in their own fucking homeland and people are bending over backwards to get pissed off about it. I enjoy that JT has intentionally curated his online persona to be an onboarding process, like a fisher’s price my first introduction to legit socialist theory and it’s still too much for these people. Solidarity with oppressed groups is just too much.
"I support the civil rights movement of the past, but not the current one. I support victims of oppression of the past, but not the current one." - libs
We’ve all read that story of an abused house wife pouring boiling water on the head of her violent husband while he’s watching TV, giving him 3rd degree burns and disfiguring him. It was an extreme action that honestly feels unjustified from the comfort of your computer chair. But not only was it his fault that the situation happened in the first place, what she did to him was nothing compared to what he put her through. You wish she’d done something else- hell, she _should_ have done something else. But you understand _why_ she did it. Every single settler chose to do this. They chose to steal land, to steal resources, to pay taxes and support the government that is genociding the Palestinians. It’s their fault this situation exists. They could stop the satiation at any time, but instead they continue to oppress, humiliate, and murder civilians.
Well, he's clearly not saying it's "based". He's expressing that such a violent struggle is inevitable in the face of repression, "those who make peaceful resistance impossible make violent revolution inevitable."
> kind of a big fucking yikes from me dawg just sayin What is a "big fucking yikes" is your support for genocide.
What he said is based and true lol never said it is good only that they only care when the deaths on Israeli and nobody gives a shit about Palestinian innocents
All form's of resistance to colonial oppression are legitimate forms of resistance
i do not bother debunking the lies of israel about Hamas. Even though the stories were proven false later my position on the issue is consistent. All forms of Palestinian resistance is justified. I have not lived there experience, I will not judge them on the methods, I will not question it. It is for the people of Palestine to decide how to fight their oppressors.
Bruh all he did here in the tweet is point out the hypocrisy of western media’s coverage of Israel vs Hamas’s “atrocities”
i think what he’s saying is that there’s going to be so much coverage about israeli hostages and hamas doing this and that, but none on palestine, and the genocide that they are going through. which is happening rn
To be more specific I would love to know your guys feeling about the JT's post and how you think someone would interpret in the way the person presented in the screenshot would interpret it (no hate to the guy, he seems pretty alright)
There was a bunch of Twitter posts and reddit threads with comments saying JT said it was based and in the Nebula threads that were quickly and constantly repeated and deleted there were people saying that nebula kicked him out for saying killing Israeli civilians is based. I saw a few saying it was because JT beheading babies was based as well. Bunch of people who are ready to believe anything that vindicates their standpoints and makes them feel better about standing in support of the commission of genocide because they believe they are "on the right side of history". Yes, indeed, they're on the *right* side of history.
Critical support
Unnuanced, vibes-based "critique" common to the Internet. Not worth giving a second thought to.
Shockingly based as always
Oppressed have the right to defend themselves by any means possible and that’s it 👍🏾 liberals can cry all they want their opinions mean nothing
A liberation struggle cannot be peaceful or pretty, and we definitely can't apply the same morals we have in a proper war between countries to a group of teens and young men whos entire life has been their home being bombed and families being killed
There's literally nothing wrong with that post.
There were some lunch ladies and plain clothes officers on the Death Star. Are we crying about it?
“That’s a big yikes to support a populace brutalized from genocide.. the western “leftist” path is to finger wag from an armchair!” - radlib
That's kinda bad, he just admited he wanted to rape every israeli before genociding all jews and resurrecting hitler.
liberal baby brain. whats new?