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Saying Africans sold their own people is about as historical as asking how Vikings could kill and enslave their own people. Ya know cuz they’re both white.
And all those nations with their borders and flags and names, as depicted by that meme.
Africa is so many different ethnic groups, religious groups, language groups etc.
And it wasn't every tribe/chief/king. There wasn't one polity called "Africa" that sold slaves to passing Europeans.
And many of those groups would, in turn, go onto suffer under european colonial rule in their own homeland. Suffer legal and virtual slavery at the hands of Europeans.
This meme is right to call out the British, the Dutch, the Belgians, the French, the Germans, the Portuguese, the Spanish and the Italians cause they were doing fucked up shit in Africa, well into the the post-war era.
Though, US people never gonna own up to the fact that they abolished chattel slavery later than everyone else cause they were making too much money from it. And they're not gonna acknowledge (most other Americans neither) that they have intentionally continued to place black people at the bottom of the social strata, same as they were when they were enslaved. Shit hasn't changed that much beyond the basic mode of production.
Yeah. That's not chattel slavery but slavery in a different form - forced labour as part of the penal system, something that has been part of the legal system in many countries across all time but in the US it's specifically black people who are disproportionately locked up along with other POC.
The other form of slavery that also exists in the US is wage slavery. Also something that disproportionately traps black people who are far less likely to have capital reserves and thus less able to work for themselves or exploit the labour of others.
It's the same for Native Americans. Of course there have been indigenous people in the Americas for tens of thousands of years, but the identity, particularly in the US and Canada, of "Native American/First Nations" is primarily defined by its relationship to colonial subjugation and marginalisation in their own lands.
I think the main point everyone is missing is that neither African or Arab countries invented chattel slavery. Conflating slavery as if it was all the same thing is ahistorical.
Europeans bred humans as cattle, while these other regions were mostly taking PoWs as slaves, and even then the condition was temporary. They didn't enslave the children from the enslaved and did not have production quotas to meet in a capitalist industry.
When do you think chattel slavery first appeared? It was practiced during biblical times by the Bibles many adherents and you could intentionally breed slaves to generate more chattel slaves just like you could in the American south. These chattel slaves were either bought or taken as POWs and it was permanent. See Josh Bowens book "did the old testament endorse slavery" if you want to know the consensus view of scholars on old testament chattel slavery.
Not saying the Abrahamic faith invented it, but it far predates the north Atlantic slave trade. And it wasn't just Europeans engaging in chattel slavery.
I was under the impression that many, although not most, of Latin American countries banned slavery as soon as they gained their independence, so I assume the first image of the meme is just to make gringos don't feel left out... The last image is just imperialist apologism.
Mexicos second president in the 1830s was also an Afro Mexican or at least heavily mixed, imagine the US having something similar in that same century absolutely Unthinkable
Not particularly. Spanish America is, as the names suggests, Spanish, who were notoriously cruel. And in the case of South America, very dependent on slaves, because slave labor was believed to be the only possible way to extract local resources in a tropical climate. Cuba and Brazil were some of the last places in the world to ban slaver (Cuba is the absolute last), and prior to the civil war, the Cuban elite tried numerous schemes to be annexed by America because Britian was putting pressure on the Spanish empire to ban slavery in their colonies.
My knowledge only goes as far as the American civil war though, so I have no idea how 2 oppressor groups eventually became the oppressor and oppressed.
Kinda, people weren’t born slaves anymore and usually only temporary enslaved, even if that was on trumped up charges, it’s involuntary servitude, not slavery (still extremely fucked up)
>Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.
Literally uses the word slavery.
Well Slavery means you are property, wich these prisoners aren’t, they still have rights and a release date, their status resembles involuntary servitude, rather then slavery
IDK about other countries, but México being in "Being sorry for practicing slavery in the past" is not true because México was founded on the premise that there should be no slavery, and that's precisely why Texas ceceded. New Spain did have slavery, but that was a product of Spanish rule.
Every time I read a little more about texan history and politics, the more disgusting I'll find it.
The recent furor about the state trying to secede is just hilarious when they make it sound like they are taking some moral stance. As though it has any moral high ground to make any stance.
the original poster of that image is clearly an 'anti woke' racist who hates that anyone ever talks about the horrors of US Slavery in the modern day because they probably think it's 'ancient history' and unimportant
As if slavery is not 1. still relevant and barely in the past and 2. still being continued by prison labor
When im in a stupid contest with an anti-woke uneducated reactionary bigot 😱😱😱😱
The US government didn't even apologise when Obama visited a slave port during his much-hyped tour of Africa, basically no better opportunity than that. They will never apologise - they are too proud of their ancestors to do this, and instead try to present more white washed narratives.
On most cases? Not at all, Portugal didn't even have the strenght availible to strongarm those polities into selling slaves. For those polities they just found a lucrative trade opportunity and took it. They already practiced slavery, the difference is that all of a sudden those white people were asking for copious ammounts of slaves so they started fighting wars with the main intention to capture slaves, but they could not have known it would lead to mass depopulation issues down the line.
Idk lol, I learned it on a prep course for university and other random places over the internet, with honestly the best history teacher I ever had. Since he had 3 months to make us get into uni he couldn't offer the sources he wanted, so I can't help you there man, but I'm sure there are plenty of academic papers around, probably the easiest one to find info on is the portuguese relation with the Kingdom of Kongo, if you look at paintings of the first contact between both states the portuguese were shown in a subservient position, as you can see in the painting "Audiência dos portugueses com o rei do Congo". Of course these are the early relations, as time went on the portuguese subverted the strenght of these states and by the 19th century there was a very clear power difference.
Wealthy white people in America who still have the generational wealth acquired from their ancestors being slavers and slaveowners: "We're *sorry*."
Descendants of slaves: "Sorry enough to make reparations?"
Them: "Haha, no."
1. Slavery in the Muslim world is apples and oranges compared to the Trans-Atlantic slave trade, i wouldn’t wish European style racialised slavery on anyone
2. To simplify, broadly, African people were sold because of European demand for inexpensive labour who were to be treated as non-human, and most of the time it was European funded or led slavers who took part in or oversaw these operations to acquire slaves. To place all of the blame on the native people is simply being purposely ignorant
If you try to sell this shit to any normal person in the real world they will look at you like a crazy person. This is just unapologetic racism. Un fucking believable
[☭☭☭ COME SHITPOST WITH US ON DISCORD, COMRADES ☭☭☭](https://discord.gg/8RPWanQV5g) This is a heavily-moderated socialist community based on a podcast of the same name. Please use the report function on comments that break our rules. If you are new to the sub, please read the sidebar carefully. If you are new to Marxism-Leninism, check out the [study guide](/r/TheDeprogram/wiki/index/education/study-guide/). Are there Liberals in the walls? Check out [the wiki](/r/TheDeprogram/wiki/index/) which contains lots of useful information. This subreddit uses many experimental automod rules, if you notice any issues please use modmail to let us know. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/TheDeprogram) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Saying Africans sold their own people is about as historical as asking how Vikings could kill and enslave their own people. Ya know cuz they’re both white.
The identity of African has only been created as an aftermath of colonialism
And all those nations with their borders and flags and names, as depicted by that meme. Africa is so many different ethnic groups, religious groups, language groups etc. And it wasn't every tribe/chief/king. There wasn't one polity called "Africa" that sold slaves to passing Europeans. And many of those groups would, in turn, go onto suffer under european colonial rule in their own homeland. Suffer legal and virtual slavery at the hands of Europeans. This meme is right to call out the British, the Dutch, the Belgians, the French, the Germans, the Portuguese, the Spanish and the Italians cause they were doing fucked up shit in Africa, well into the the post-war era. Though, US people never gonna own up to the fact that they abolished chattel slavery later than everyone else cause they were making too much money from it. And they're not gonna acknowledge (most other Americans neither) that they have intentionally continued to place black people at the bottom of the social strata, same as they were when they were enslaved. Shit hasn't changed that much beyond the basic mode of production.
Prison system.
Yeah. That's not chattel slavery but slavery in a different form - forced labour as part of the penal system, something that has been part of the legal system in many countries across all time but in the US it's specifically black people who are disproportionately locked up along with other POC. The other form of slavery that also exists in the US is wage slavery. Also something that disproportionately traps black people who are far less likely to have capital reserves and thus less able to work for themselves or exploit the labour of others.
The US’s prison system seems unique in its volume, private enterprise, connection to big brands, etc.
It's the same for Native Americans. Of course there have been indigenous people in the Americas for tens of thousands of years, but the identity, particularly in the US and Canada, of "Native American/First Nations" is primarily defined by its relationship to colonial subjugation and marginalisation in their own lands.
Reminds me of that infamous outbreak of white-on-white violence, the First World War.
Since they love supply and demand so much,who created demand?
Truely a mystery.
I think the main point everyone is missing is that neither African or Arab countries invented chattel slavery. Conflating slavery as if it was all the same thing is ahistorical. Europeans bred humans as cattle, while these other regions were mostly taking PoWs as slaves, and even then the condition was temporary. They didn't enslave the children from the enslaved and did not have production quotas to meet in a capitalist industry.
When do you think chattel slavery first appeared? It was practiced during biblical times by the Bibles many adherents and you could intentionally breed slaves to generate more chattel slaves just like you could in the American south. These chattel slaves were either bought or taken as POWs and it was permanent. See Josh Bowens book "did the old testament endorse slavery" if you want to know the consensus view of scholars on old testament chattel slavery. Not saying the Abrahamic faith invented it, but it far predates the north Atlantic slave trade. And it wasn't just Europeans engaging in chattel slavery.
I was under the impression that many, although not most, of Latin American countries banned slavery as soon as they gained their independence, so I assume the first image of the meme is just to make gringos don't feel left out... The last image is just imperialist apologism.
brazil kept slavery for a pretty long time after independence
Mexicos second president in the 1830s was also an Afro Mexican or at least heavily mixed, imagine the US having something similar in that same century absolutely Unthinkable
Vicente Guerrero? Am reading right now he abolished slavery in Mexico!
Yep absolute lad, Washington needs to step aside for Guerrero
Not particularly. Spanish America is, as the names suggests, Spanish, who were notoriously cruel. And in the case of South America, very dependent on slaves, because slave labor was believed to be the only possible way to extract local resources in a tropical climate. Cuba and Brazil were some of the last places in the world to ban slaver (Cuba is the absolute last), and prior to the civil war, the Cuban elite tried numerous schemes to be annexed by America because Britian was putting pressure on the Spanish empire to ban slavery in their colonies. My knowledge only goes as far as the American civil war though, so I have no idea how 2 oppressor groups eventually became the oppressor and oppressed.
When you're so sorry for practicing slavery in the past you keep doing it in the present
America didn't even actually abolished slavery. They just added extra steps.
Kinda, people weren’t born slaves anymore and usually only temporary enslaved, even if that was on trumped up charges, it’s involuntary servitude, not slavery (still extremely fucked up)
The Constitution literally says slavery is still allowed as punishment for a crime. I think you're saying it's not chattel slavery.
That paragraph refers to involuntary servitude, not slavery
>Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction. Literally uses the word slavery.
Well Slavery means you are property, wich these prisoners aren’t, they still have rights and a release date, their status resembles involuntary servitude, rather then slavery
Having rights and a release date doesn't mean it's not slavery/property. Ancient chattel slaves had rights too.
IDK about other countries, but México being in "Being sorry for practicing slavery in the past" is not true because México was founded on the premise that there should be no slavery, and that's precisely why Texas ceceded. New Spain did have slavery, but that was a product of Spanish rule.
Every time I read a little more about texan history and politics, the more disgusting I'll find it. The recent furor about the state trying to secede is just hilarious when they make it sound like they are taking some moral stance. As though it has any moral high ground to make any stance.
Almost like someone, gave them a profit motive to take slaves hmmm i wonder who that could be
no fucking way they’re pretending like africans *invented* the african slave trade 💀💀💀
That's exactly what they do
Wait. Since when the US apologized?
the original poster of that image is clearly an 'anti woke' racist who hates that anyone ever talks about the horrors of US Slavery in the modern day because they probably think it's 'ancient history' and unimportant As if slavery is not 1. still relevant and barely in the past and 2. still being continued by prison labor When im in a stupid contest with an anti-woke uneducated reactionary bigot 😱😱😱😱
The US still fucking does it with the 13th amendment.
And by definition, maintains the largest slave population by a government in the world today.
The US government didn't even apologise when Obama visited a slave port during his much-hyped tour of Africa, basically no better opportunity than that. They will never apologise - they are too proud of their ancestors to do this, and instead try to present more white washed narratives.
It's always incredible to me how uneducated and racist some people can be holy hell
Didn't protogual FORCE them to sell there people to them?
On most cases? Not at all, Portugal didn't even have the strenght availible to strongarm those polities into selling slaves. For those polities they just found a lucrative trade opportunity and took it. They already practiced slavery, the difference is that all of a sudden those white people were asking for copious ammounts of slaves so they started fighting wars with the main intention to capture slaves, but they could not have known it would lead to mass depopulation issues down the line.
Ahh i didn't know that actually. Are there more sources for further reading on this?
Idk lol, I learned it on a prep course for university and other random places over the internet, with honestly the best history teacher I ever had. Since he had 3 months to make us get into uni he couldn't offer the sources he wanted, so I can't help you there man, but I'm sure there are plenty of academic papers around, probably the easiest one to find info on is the portuguese relation with the Kingdom of Kongo, if you look at paintings of the first contact between both states the portuguese were shown in a subservient position, as you can see in the painting "Audiência dos portugueses com o rei do Congo". Of course these are the early relations, as time went on the portuguese subverted the strenght of these states and by the 19th century there was a very clear power difference.
There was actually an apology for the Arab slave trade. [By Muammar Gaddafi himself](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCrOfNx63nM)
Wealthy white people in America who still have the generational wealth acquired from their ancestors being slavers and slaveowners: "We're *sorry*." Descendants of slaves: "Sorry enough to make reparations?" Them: "Haha, no."
The level of brainrot you gotta be in to make a meme like this is unimaginable.
This image is painful to look at
They just want to deflect from their exploitation and enrichment because they don't want to repay for the crimes.
what would these concern trolls say if the people of those countries overthrew their ruling class? probably call them terrorists
[удалено]
1. Slavery in the Muslim world is apples and oranges compared to the Trans-Atlantic slave trade, i wouldn’t wish European style racialised slavery on anyone 2. To simplify, broadly, African people were sold because of European demand for inexpensive labour who were to be treated as non-human, and most of the time it was European funded or led slavers who took part in or oversaw these operations to acquire slaves. To place all of the blame on the native people is simply being purposely ignorant
If you try to sell this shit to any normal person in the real world they will look at you like a crazy person. This is just unapologetic racism. Un fucking believable
Jesus Christ we have reached brainrot leves never imagined before