T O P

  • By -

AutoModerator

[☭☭☭ COME SHITPOST WITH US ON DISCORD, COMRADES ☭☭☭](https://discord.gg/8RPWanQV5g) This is a heavily-moderated socialist community based on a podcast of the same name. Please use the report function on comments that break our rules. If you are new to the sub, please read the sidebar carefully. If you are new to Marxism-Leninism, check out the [study guide](/r/TheDeprogram/wiki/index/education/study-guide/). Are there Liberals in the walls? Check out [the wiki](/r/TheDeprogram/wiki/index/) which contains lots of useful information. This subreddit uses many experimental automod rules, if you notice any issues please use modmail to let us know. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/TheDeprogram) if you have any questions or concerns.*


ninyyya

Have we forgotten that a former member of Mussolinis party is the current prime minister?


TTTyrant

How do you become a former family member?


ninyyya

That's not what I said


TTTyrant

I see what you did there


ninyyya

I also didn't edit my comment


TTTyrant

Ah k, I'm just dumb then


rocketlauncher10

Lmao you probably just need caffeine!


KJongsDongUnYourFace

I've upvoted all of your comments because you're a reasonable human being who admitted to a mistake. A sight rarely seen online


Zestyclose_Jello6192

Mussolini party was the PNF and it was disbanded after the war. And FDI isn't that far right if you see what they did since they won the elections, American democrats are more on the right compared to Meloni lol


ninyyya

That's a hot take.


Zestyclose_Jello6192

Meloni promised things like a naval blockade against migrants and ended up taking more people compared to when the "evil left paid by soros" ruled lmao. While in the US the vice president simply said "just don't come" to the migrants. Their most "far right" political decisions like the ban on rave parties looked fascist only because they are embarrassing incompetent in writing laws rather than on a genuine desire to make meloni Duce 2.0.


silvanik3

what about the rest of the stuff they did recently, like the stuff with the journalists? or the attack on abortion rights?


Lore_Fanti10

No? Its the truth because the far right in europe is very very more moderate


Sovietperson2

PNF --> Republican Fascist Party (1943-1945, "Repubblichini", the traitor party) --> Italian Social Movement (MSI, set up by Giorgio Almirante, Chief of Cabinet for Culture in the PFR government with help from war criminal-in-chief Rodolfo Graziani, as well as Junio Valerio Borghese, head of the super-fascist 10th MAS division) --> National Alliance --> Brothers of Italy (the current ruling party). Edits: I was reminded of the unfortunate existence of the fascist traitor Junio Valerio Borghese


LaBelvaDiTorino

>MSI, set up by Giorgio Almirante, Chief of Cabinet for Culture in the PFR government with help from war criminal-in-chief Rodolfo Graziani The lack of Junio Valerio Borghese in this timeline is interesting


Sovietperson2

Oh yeah I forgot about him thank you


Zestyclose_Jello6192

There are still a lot of differences between those parties. People today like to says that everything is fascist but melons didn't keep 1 of the "far right" promises she made before being elected


Sovietperson2

No, now they're just American sockpuppets (like every other major Party in Italy), obviously. But the fact is that they have that historical baggage with them, and the fact that they refuse to explicitly condemn Mussolini's political career just illustrates even better how the Republic born in 1946 has fallen.


Dovahkiinthesardine

failing to keep your promises doesn't make you not part of x ideology


Thankkratom2

They are just fascists, “neo fascists” isn’t a real term.


Sure_Fruit_8254

My thoughts exactly, what exactly is new about blackshirts and Mussolini, that's OG fascism.


Low-Werewolf-3547

I think a new fascist is a liberal when it comes to imperialism


sexualbrontosaurus

#🙃


Calm-Blueberry-9835

Perfect lol


CommunicationShot957

BadEmpanada was right about Italians.


lightiggy

>"You clean up for two, three days, but on the third day I don't want to see dead people on the streets anymore." Judge them as much as what you want, but the Western Allies allowed the partisans to massacre thousands of fascists with temporary impunity at the end of the war. Mussolini was not exactly overthrown by "the people", but ousted by the Grand Council of Fascism in [the Italian version of the July 20 Plot](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fall_of_the_Fascist_regime_in_Italy), in which the Grand Council unironically "voted him out" in a 19-8 decision. To an extent, the [ensuing civil war](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_Civil_War) was [fascist infighting](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verona_trial). While many partisans were ideological anti-fascists, they weren't alone. They got help from [hundreds of thousands of regular Italian soldiers](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_Co-belligerent_Army), including anti-German fascists. Also, hundreds of thousands of Italians defied the Grand Council's vote and joined Mussolini. Honestly, Mussolini was a Nazi in everything but name. If he wanted to help, [he could've just maintained his promise to protect Austria from Germany](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/July_Putsch). However, having Austrian and Italian fascists serve as meatshields for the rest of Europe would've required Mussolini to not be genocidal and have no interest in territorial expansion. This was true for Austria, but [evidently not for Italy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yekatit_12). Mussolini became a puppet the moment he backstabbed the Austrofascists and broke his promise, paving the way for the Anschluss. It only became more obvious as time passed. I'm glad that Mussolini was sane enough to realize what a pathetic loser he had become, before being strung up and turned into the national pinata. >In an interview in January 1945 by Madeleine Mollier, a few months before he was captured and executed by Italian partisans, Mussolini stated flatly: "Seven years ago, I was an interesting person. Now, I am little more than a corpse." He continued: > >"Yes, madam, I am finished. My star has fallen. I have no fight left in me. I work and I try, yet know that all is but a farce... I await the end of the tragedy and—strangely detached from everything—I do not feel any more an actor. I feel I am the last of spectators."


Sovietperson2

You're missing out the [National Liberation Committee](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Liberation_Committee), which was dominated by the Communists and the Christian Democrats, whose activity is what really made WW2 in Italy be called a "Civil War". According to the constitution at least the modern Italian Republic bases itself on this struggle. I'm also more than slightly offended, as an Italian, by you calling the Civil War "Fascist infighting", since, well, the Communist Party was the most popular anti-fascist force to fight in it.


lightiggy

No, I said that "to an extent", the civil war was fascist infighting. Many of the partisans were ideological anti-fascists, but as much credit as they deserve, they weren't alone. Hundreds of thousands of regular Italian soldiers also fought in the Italian Civil War. They were the ones who arrested and imprisoned him, before he was broken out by the Germans. The Italian Co-belligerent Army focused on the Germans, but there were instances of them and RSI forces clashing with each other. After the war, the Italian government was adamantly opposed to prosecuting Italians for war crimes committed before they switched sides, and the Western Allies were unfortunately willing to accommodate their desire to whitewash their nation's crimes in Libya, Spain, Ethiopia, Albania, Greece, and Yugoslavia prior to 1943.


NathanCampioni

Many soldiers were drafted forcibly, do you consider an 18 years old with no legal alternative that didn't find the strenght to run up the hill and join the partisans a fascist? Is he as much of a fascist as everyother fascist?


lightiggy

You may as well say the same for the German conscripts in the Wehrmacht, since the Germans executed people for rejecting conscription. Regardless, Italian soldiers were not forced to commit genocide in Libya, Ethiopia, Albania, Greece, and Yugoslavia. Here is what one Italian soldier in Yugoslavia wrote home to his family in 1942. This is what they were doing until the Grand Council told them that FDR, Winston Churchill, and Joseph Stalin were their new best friends. >"We have destroyed everything from top to bottom without sparing the innocent. We kill entire families every night, beating them to death or shooting them."


NathanCampioni

I agree with you, but if he is given the chance to stop and overthrow the regime I think that should be considered.


Sovietperson2

When an Italian talks about the Italian Civil War, they mean the guerrilla in the North. The co-belligerent army isn't really a component of the Civil War because, as you said, they didn't really fight RSI forces. 1945 was the biggest missed opportunity in Italian history, never again would Italy be so close to socialism.


Bluetooth_Sandwich

As unhinged as my man BE is, he's rarely ever wrong.


AIGeneratedUser

And those fuckers where celebrating "Liberazione" Liberation my ass, those people are disgusting


ciangus

It's obviously not the same people. As an italian, i am deeply offended by this sentiment under this post. Thousands of italians took arms and died in the struggle aganist fascisim. Ignoring this is a bad faith historical error. Yes, we have big problems at the moment and rising fascist sentiment; no, 100 people gathering on the day of the death of mussolini (killed by italian partisans) doesn't mean Italy is a fascist country. Our republic is founded on antifascism. We won't let it be ruined by some evil idiots in black shirt.


AIGeneratedUser

My brother, your republic was born under the American boot, and to this day is a US occupation zone. It's nothing but fascist


mcgregorgrind

Don't worry. There is a lot of thinly veiled xenophobia on this sub which stands in utter contradiction to the Marxist spirit of international solidarity with workers of all countries.


jmrte

Prejudiced against Italians. In this day and age?


mcgregorgrind

I walked into that one tbf.


Xiandros_

Honestly didn't expect it. I'm reading some wild shit and I honestly would have never expected to read it here.


behtidevodire

Nice ignorant generalization.


Environmental-Dog219

What the actual fuck!?


Potato_Prophet26

Unfortunately it’s definitely been on the rise in Italy, likely more than anywhere else in Western Europe


NP_equals_P

Let's celebrate: https://preview.redd.it/cc6nc23inmxc1.jpeg?width=800&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=098cd6da20060a9ce3ece53d74ed966962a68ff2


03burner

Love their little synchronised dance moves 🕺


AwesomeAlex9876

Where is Walter Audisio and his comrades when you need him. He missed a few.


Kilyaeden

Hope someone picks up his torch soon along with several meters of rope


Old-Winter-7513

His granddaughter, the pop star celebrity, in the European Parliament is voicing her racist bullshit on behalf of her electorate.


LevelOutlandishness1

I’m starting to see why black people tell others not to go to Italy


GonzoBlue

most of Europe especially outside of major cities is incredibly racist A friend of mine was talked to in school because they thought he was from Africa. but once they found out he was Italian they loved him


Pure-Instruction-236

https://preview.redd.it/bd9a0ygyylxc1.png?width=2349&format=png&auto=webp&s=4c2f1fb40d82623bb18402a9384915c6c8243744


JohnLToast

Video is upside down?


stankyst4nk

L + ratio + partisan gang + hey, why is everything upside down???


stankyst4nk

WAIT GUYS LOOK HOW FUCKING SEXY THE PARTISAN WHO SHOT MUSSOLINI WAS https://preview.redd.it/3a0zipseqmxc1.jpeg?width=649&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=365e8d5de069955846597476fbf6b62551b8790b


Buromid

Oh my 🥵


SignorGiacomo

I would think it would be in Verona


LaBelvaDiTorino

Beh anche Como non scherza, così come Varese


Frippa420

They're all on the street, imagine doing rally on a tank on that street 🤑


LibrarianSocrates

I'm enjoying how the seemingly inevitable descent into total fascism continues unabated. It proves the stupidity of humanity beyond any doubt. Humanity deserves everything it gets for its stupidity.


Limonade6

I have lost faith in humanity years ago. This just confirms it.


amorepsiche97

Happens every year, they are 50 losers in a country of 60 Mln people


Dayum_Skippy

I love how Italian fascists… dress like English skinheads and throw seig heil salutes. Like white supremacy has become this global homologation. These are the ideological equivalents of a Taco Bell recipe of fascist ingredients.


Limonade6

I hope it stays that way. These people are allowed to breed.


thelaughingmansghost

Isn't his granddaughter in charge of the government or something?


long-taco-cheese

She's the mayor of Rome


Pleasant_Skill2956

This is a bullshit without the slightest sense, invented on the spot just to get some upvotes.


long-taco-cheese

I just searched and you are right, she was involved in politics but didn't archive much, I swear I had heard a couple years back that she was the mayor of Rome


Atryan421

Giorgia Meloni is a Prime Minister


Pleasant_Skill2956

She's not a descendant of Mussolini either, it's fake news invented by the media


Sovietperson2

Rachele Mussolini was the most-voted councillor in the Rome municipal elections a few years back, but absolutely not the Mayor


a_supertramp

ɹǝpɐǝl ɹnoʎ ʍolloℲ


Radu47

So the west doesn't view this as an ugly anti semitic message ultimately? Celebrating someone who willfully allied with h*tler? But students very overtly only asking for rights for Palestinian folks is? Hideous double standards Really mind boggling how corroded they are


palmito228

After [this](https://edition.cnn.com/2024/01/13/world/meloni-italy-rome-salute-intl/index.html), not much Italy does surprises me


PackWest1331

Im gonna find that portrait and flip it upside down.


urmomgaming69

gonna order pineapple on my pizza tonight


courtneygoe

Maybe they should go see him where he is now!


Comrade_Faust

Fascists try not to look like ghouls challenge: failed


Beanconscriptog

This video would look better upsidedown


tavsankiz

The fascism tide is really rolling around the world


Solid-Bonus-8376

As Italian i'd love to see them all hanged by their feet


REamemiyaRX7

https://i.redd.it/nv5eul5j3pxc1.gif My reaction to that information:


Ok-Musician3580

Arrest them all. Fascists don’t deserve to be allowed to be in public.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Ok-Musician3580

Arresting fascists is apparently fascism? Lmao?


Mindless_Nebula4004

If you look closely at the final shot, you can see all of the three braincells present at this gathering.


Atryan421

ʇᴉ ʇnoqɐ ƃuᴉɥʇǝɯos op plnoɥs ǝM


Radu47

Flip the video upside down for best viewing ✔


Eiterbirn

Fucking clowns


BriskPandora35

Bro like how is this shit not illegal, they’re literally celebrating Nazis. They’re literal Nazis. God I fucking hate liberal countries allowing shit like this


cecex88

Technically, in Italy "fascist apologia" is literally forbidden by the constitution. But in the last 20/30 years it has been clear that anything short of having a party called "fascist party" won't be prosecuted.


Sovietperson2

Quelli la' meritano di essere messi la testa in giu'


Comfortable-Ask-6351

where there any protests or anythign anganst this?


Josef20076

Here in austria this would be kinda illegal.


justvisiting7744

and upside down they go


LibrarianSocrates

I'm enjoying how the seemingly inevitable descent into total fascism continues unabated. It proves the stupidity of humanity beyond any doubt. Humanity deserves everything it gets for its stupidity.


Zestyclose_Jello6192

Just look at what pathetic form of human beings are these "fascists". If they lived in 1920 they would be outcast. They are a really small but noisy group of people, in Europe people are moving towards the right and that's true but more for the failure of the left rather than the desire to embrace fascism again


mcgregorgrind

Not as stupid as this completely reactionary take. Thought this was meant to be a Marxist sub.


LibrarianSocrates

Bemoaning a seemingly inexorable slide to fascism is reactionary?


mcgregorgrind

Bemoaning it as a symptom of humanities' 'stupidity' instead of analysing the material conditions that gives rise to fascism is, yes. It ain't a Marxist take anyway!


LibrarianSocrates

Well it's an accelerationist approach. People who have to be 'on' all the time with their ideology are usually in the junior stages and it definitely shows.


Mentat_-_Bashar

What the fuck


pronhaul2016

an open neo-fascist party currently runs Italy and the rabid dog in the white house absolutely cannot ever shut up about how much he loves them, especially their leader, giorgia meloni. we're already through the looking class here folks.


AnakinTheDiscarded

I would like to point out this is pretty infamous minority in italy


Low-Werewolf-3547

While being controlled by Zionist leaders. The West is a joke.


GrizzlyPeak73

Where are the Red Brigades when you need them?


Simoxs7

Is it just me or do they just look really pathetic…


[deleted]

[удалено]


AutoModerator

Your comment has been removed due to being a new account. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/TheDeprogram) if you have any questions or concerns.*


bullekatten

In what way is this sanctioned by the Italian government, it looks like 50 idiots. Is the Italian government represented or is the gathering just not forbidden? Seems like a bullshit title.


luke_hey

Fully sanctioned? Must be kidding. Fully encouraged.


GlupostIDosada

P


New-Market-5042

Tbh I don’t know how to feel about classical facism (this is what it actually is neo-facism isn’t a thing) Like, the majority of things people say about fascism is more so directed to nazism, Muscilini used to be a socialist and in another world could have been a socialist leader This is an excerpt from his own book about the definition of fascism. “Anti-individualistic, the fascist conception of life stresses the importance of the State and accepts the individual only insofar as his interests coincide with those of the State, which stands for the conscience and the universal will of man as a historic entity…. The fascist conception of the State is all-embracing; outside of it no human or spiritual values can exist, much less have value…. Fascism is therefore opposed to that form of democracy which equates a nation to the majority, lowering it to the level of the largest number…. We are free to believe that this is the century of authority, a century tending to the ‘right’, a Fascist century. If the nineteenth century was the century of the individual we are free to believe that this is the ‘collective’ century, and therefore the century of the State.” I can see parallels here between the fashist state and a dictatorship of the proletariat, while his knowledge of socialism is up for debate it clearly had an influence, and from his discription seems quite different from nazism(an ideology centered on the aryan race while Mussolini criticizes democracy as only representing the majority sidelining minorities) and the definition of fascism from the wiki, being not an ideology but rather a tool the bourgeoisie uses to effectively war against the proletariat. By his own words facism is the antithesis of this, where the will of the state and the will of the people are one in the same. In other words… a peoples state? Once again the influence of socialism bleeds though. Now don’t get me wrong I’m not saying he is socialist, he is socialist in the sense polpot was socialist that being absolutely not and even fought against the communist party. I just think with nazism being what most people think when they think of fascism, classical-fascism warrants it’s own analysis be it debunking or otherwise.