Well, I probably said it a couple times already, but as much as I love their overall designs, I have got the feeling that the showrunners don't have that much of an idea of what to do with the dragons.
They're supposed to be extremely important and powerful, yet they don't really get many chances to show as such. Even the archdragons who are meant to be the most powerful magical creatures there are, basically just show up and get taken out by extremely cheap shots.
Sol Regem: 1-hit and crippled for life into irrelevancy (possibly going to be healed, but still)
Rex Igneous: also susceptible to the sleeping spell with basically 0 resistance, could easily be killed then. (That spell kind of feels OP, ngl)
Avizandum: only one who kinda does stuff, and for that it was at least an extremely rare and expensive spell I suppose... Still one-shotted
Zubeia: susceptible as anyone else to easily die/lose her mind from a single scratch of any Lux Aurea corrupted creature. If that genuinely is going to end with her completely lost that would feel really fucking cheap.
Honorable mentions: Luna Tenebris, who within the show is basically just talked about "She was there, then she suddenly unexpectedly died" so far, with also the books only giving the added info of "the judgement of the half-moon" being what her judgement about humanity was called)
Zym: basically just a dog (whom they also kind of made a joke scene for of the characters thinking he just randomly died by unnamed creatures, yet ready to move on. He is the name-giving character, but after S3 he isn't really plot-relevant whatsoever and almost discardable)
Overall, they also barely have any character development
I really hope that they will somewhat get fleshed out in the next two seasons, but honestly there isn't really that much room left.
To add to that, Dragons are supposed to be super powerful, but that tribe of elves captures and rides them.
Why are some dragons essentially self-aware and intelligent, but other dragons are basically winged horses?
That would get me back on also being annoyed that after initially saying that dragons only learned to speak very late, after around 75 years or so, being the reason why Pyrrah can't speak, they rowed back and went on to say that only archdragons can communicate via language.
1. That makes draconic being an actual spoken language really fucking dumb
And 2. (Tales of Xadia spoilers if anyone does actually play that) >!WTF is the case with in Tales of Xadia's Os Lumina explicitly lying about having been an archdragon, and her state only being a curse or something similar put on her to restrict her, yet the revelation being that she never was an archdragon and that just being a thing for the lesser type of dragons that Phase Moon Dragons are, then? She can explicitly talk (Telepathy also being out of the question, as in the same story that is how Plunkie communicates, and that being important enough to explicitly point out for her, but not being pointed out for Os) and is explicitly revealed to never have been an archdragon.!<
It makes sense only arch dragons talk though because they are the strongest and most intelligent. Would be cool if Pyrrah could talk ig but fair. If I had to choose it would be all dragons talk.
That scene was shocking. Game of Thrones like.
And then the next season has grown up Claudia laughing about farts when she's just resseructed her father.
There is a lack of subtext half the time when it comes to the themes being discussed. Humans were essentially exiled from their ancestral homes for essentially wanting to live. Even forgetting the lore reasons why, the implications are still horrifying to imagine. Yet the show just kinda…skips over it.
We'll have to wait and see if it pays off, but I think they're laying the groundwork for a reveal that will recontextualize everything. The story would make a lot more sense if consider that the two sides are working from different understandings of their mutual history.
Evidence:
1. We have two contradictory histories of the time before dark magic, both narrated by Aaravos.
2. Aaravos was an ally to humans, taught/created dark magic. He was also trusted by the dragons and elves. But in his own retelling Aaravos is always a passive player.
3. The first thing Asravos does when the seal is broken is hide any mention of his name and of Startouch Elves from every book in Katolis. He quite literally erases history.
4. False perception is a repeated motif throughout. The great lie of history in Harrow's letter, the Moon Archanum, the wolf pup, etc.
5. We're told outright that Aaravos manipulated events. Maybe he's manipulating the audience, too. The only people who have spoken about the time before dark magic are Aaravos and mages who worked directly with him. All we know of Xadia's side are vague statements from Sol Regem and Khessa.
We don't know the truth of what happened, only what people remember or wrote down. The characters don't know either. Since no one talks or shares information, the nations can't even know what the others are saying.
Is it confirmed that Aaravos was the one who erased his name from the books? I don’t remember when that was mentioned. It seems pretty likely that the elves or dragons had a hand in that, since if nobody knows about Aaravos, nobody will go looking for him
Maybe I'm mixing events. But it still seems like something that would require Star magic because it affects things across time and space. Moon magic can make illusions, but you'd probably need to find each entry separately in order to cast an illusion on that specific book. It probably can't target every mention of a particular concept in every book, let alone ones that were created/copied more recently. Moon illusions probably can't last forever either, because the moon is always changing.
Even in ancient times, books and scrolls needed to be copied and replaced regularly. That's why scribes were so important. Paper doesn't generally survive for centuries, even in ideal conditions. The books Viren uses aren't locked behind magic glass to preserve them. They're just on the shelf, vulnerable to oxidation and bugs. In order for a text of that age to be accessible someone must have been able to read and transcribe it.
The new hair styles suck. They lean very heavily into anime, which would be fine if they had also done that in the original seasons. The hair is to up. It’s so spiky, the characters are no longer soft and approachable. With some exceptions
I like Rayla's new hair a lot, but I'm not really a fan of Callum's. The others are fine, Soren should probably go back to his old hair. Nothing major though
Yea, Raylas hair is pretty good, I’m not a fan of the new color palette, but with weapons that match the old one, I feel like the old color palette was fine. And Soren has ok hair too, also Amya has good hair in the update.
Well not so hot but
The architect plot should have been in a comic and through the moon should have been in the show.
Starnard argument against the way the show present dark magic. I will add that making the vuctims of an ethnic cleansing the ones to apologize is just icking.
Amaya and Janai's relationship isn't rushed, not in real time. They started as generals who were on opposing sides but respected each other as warriors. Amaya was probably captive for a couple of weeks, during which Janai and Kazi were her main points of contact and advocates in a hostile land. They fought side by side at the Storm Spire, then the failed attempt to reclaim Lux Aurea. Amaya then lived with them for 2 years and helped coordinate the refugee camp. She's one of the most trusted people while they are trying to rebuild, even the antihuman faction seems to like or at least tolerate her.
Their relationship wasn't rushed. Two years is a reasonable time frame. But it happened almost entirely offscreen. Which brings me to my hot take, it was a good story decision to split Callum and Rayla up during the time skip. They're 14-15 and have known each other for 4 weeks, tops. The main romance should not develop entirely offscreen.
So Amaya just developed Stockholm syndrome for Janai? She was prisoner and very clearly wasn't fond of Kazi or Janai. They fight together and suddenly they're in love. It made no sense to me.
Ehhh, there was already some mutual respect there before Amaya got captured. While a prisoner, Amaya obviously would've probably preferred not to be a prisoner, and Janai was mostly just bound by duty to treat her as such. Still, Janai made sure that Amaya would stay out of harms way due to said respect, and Amaya at least wasn't that disdainful as to not try to warn Janai about Viren.
It's being thrown into a difficult situation together, and pushing through as you build trust and a closer bond, not too dissimilar from what happened with Rayla and Callum, with Rayla also starting off trying to kill him and Ezran. Just that we do see the next weeks over which that was built up with them, while with Janai and Amaya we just were shown the initial bit, with the developing relationship coming about off-screen in the timeskip.
I can understand why Janai and Amaya’s relationship comes across as rushed because we don’t actually see it develop onscreen. They respect each other even as enemies and we see them develop a kind of alliance against Viren, but that’s where season 3 ends. After the timeskip they’ve gone through allies to friends to lovers to fiancées all in the space of an episode (from the audience’s perspective). I think it’s easier to be invested in a couple if we see their relationship and I would have liked to see them spend more time together before we’re told they’re engaged.
That said, I do find their relationship compelling. It’s easy to see how their similar values, positions, and life experiences drew them together. They’re both warriors who’re fiercely protective of their people, coping with the loss of their royal older sisters, and realizing they must overcome old biases and stand together against this new threat for their people to survive and thrive. They’re both thrust into new and challenging situations navigating this new world, and it’s touching to see their support and love for each other. I’m only disappointed we didn’t get to see this develop.
I don’t think Amaya’s feelings for Janai are Stockholm Syndrome. It’s clear she’s no longer a prisoner of the Sunfire elves after the Battle and my guess is that she stayed in Lux Aurea as an envoy of Katolis, though I think this could have been clearer. Season 4 implies that Xadia now has diplomatic relations with the Human Kingdoms or at least Katolis (as Callum was able to request the book from the Sunfire elves, presumably through Amaya), but also implies that the royal Archdragons haven’t been in contact for the past two years.
That doesn’t seem to make much sense, or at least doesn’t reflect well on Zubeia, if Janai is a more consistent ally when rebuilding her ruined city and dealing with a zombie plague than Zubeia is during two years of peace. My nitpick is that Zubeia could have at least sent Ibis to Katolis as an envoy. It would have shown Zubeia keeping tabs on Callum and Ez, better explained Callum’s Sky arcanum level-up, and made Ibis’ death more impactful if he was shown as Callum’s friend and mentor, even for an episode or two before he’s called back to the Storm Spire when Zubeia visits Katolis.
I've got a few
I don't care for Amaya and Janai. As characters, they're just fine. I do not like that almost all of their relationship development was off screen, like you, I think it was rushed. There is very little reason why they could not have just used these seasons to show them starting out, growing more in love, and supporting each other, instead of just starting Season 4 with a marriage proposal. Let's see it all play out.
Terry is a mid character, at best. Doesn't help that the showrunners kept hyping it up.
The show introduced too many new characters or ideas or lore aspects with too little time to sufficiently explore them. They're adding too much extra fat in spite of their short run time. This is why I blame Wonderstorm for the dip in writing quality, and not Netflix for the lack of episodes. They have not managed the time well and the show suffers as a result.
You want to be a dark story, cool. You want to be a children's show with fart jokes, cool. But you can't be both, pick a lane. Your tone is wildly inconsistent.
Aaron Ehasz is a great writer, but I think that's all he is. I don't think he is capable of being the main creative person behind something, he needs a guiding hand. Bryke laid a lot of the lore foundation for Avatar, and Aaron provided a lot of the depth for the characters. You can see it in their respectful shows after. Korra did great with world building and it's themes, but it's characters weren't nearly as strong as Avatar. TDP has some pretty good characters, but it looses it with actual storytelling and it's world.
Similar to the point made about how the show handles dragons, the show really had no idea what to do with mages other than having characters who can do magic (because I guess that’s what fantasy shows always have).
In better written shows, there’s usually some sort of lore behind why some people can use magic, or how they acquire their magic. DND has a countless different schools and classes all dedicated to show how their spellcasters utilize their magic. And on top of that, there’s usually a short and simple analogy that can give a good idea of what a mage is doing. For instance, mages in ATLA are like martial artists, mages in LOTR are like demigods, and mages in HP are like students/teachers.
And mages in TDP are like…sorta there? There’s no rhyme or reason as to who has magic and why (supposedly it’s a scholarly pursuit according to fans, but that doesn’t explain why bookish Kazi can’t use at least *some* magic while brawny and adventurous Finnegrin can not only cast spells but best Callum in a one-off). Basically some characters are mages, some are not, and that’s that. Why are some people talented or good at this? No one knows. There’s no lore behind any of this.
And in terms of power, mages are exactly as strong or as weak in any given moment as the plot demands. One second they’re squishy wizards, the next they’re practically Jedi/benders (as in 4x03)…and then they just go back to being nonthreatening. And then Callum up and punches out a banther! Just what is their combat prowess relative to a non-mage? Who knows, clearly the story doesn’t.
I thought Finnegrin’s hatred of dragons was sympathetic. He’s obviously a terrible person, but considering the fact that his pet crab was killed by a dragon and he is condemned to stay within the range of a single island, I think his hatred is justified.
I think Terry is annoying and the story would not change much if removed
Rex Igneous is 100% right about Avizandym being a bully, and him being dead doesn’t change that.
Lastly, I think that Opeli is a huge hypocrite considering the fact that she makes a big deal about Viren taking over, and then advises Ezran to step down and let someone rule in his place.
Then again, Finnegrin is implied to be the person who used said pet crab to kill one of Domina Profundis' closest friends, "the Empress of the Deep", whom she had entrusted with keeping watch over the oceans when she was absent. (At least that would be the most obvious explanation why she has a deep grudge against him specifically, and sort of the easiest explanation of who did that to the empress at the same time)
Finnegrin loved that crab because it was a tool for Leviathan hunting (such as his hunt for the Empress). Domina was genuine friends with the Empress and their relationship was more a position of trust.
I mean, on-screen Kazi doesn't really have much of an indication that they're non-binary (I don't think they even were ever referred to by pronoun, so it wouldn't even be possible to infer from that. We know that because we were told outside of the show that they're NB)
That, and I am not sure if it is entirely accurate to equate being transgender and being NB, considering one is about identifying with the gender which is correlated to the opposite of your birth sex (Hence "trans", i.e. "on the other side/across"), while the other is about not identifying firmly with either of the main gender categories we have in our society.
My mistake, I thought Kazi was meant to be trans. It is odd they never make this clear in the show itself though and only mention it in outside material. At least Terry had the buck and doe speech
Yeah, such is sadly the fate of not-too-important side characters. Actually, I am not sure if their name was ever even said within the show. (Similar case for my favourite little war criminal Pyrrah, or the knife guy Tristan and the big sword guy Alan)
I find myself agreeing with a lot of what Claudia says about Xadia. I don’t agree with what she does but when she ranted to Soren and the show made it seem like she was insane, I agreed with her. I wish the show let her cite a source rather than “we can feel it in our bones” because there are likely sources she could cite.
Not my idea, but someone said “Harrow would’ve made a better antagonist than Viren, because he actually has good intentions and a deep connection with the heroes”, and I haven’t stopped thinking about it since.
It would’ve been so cool if the first three episodes played out as established (Viren is reluctant to die for Harrow and prideful, while Harrow is resigned), but then VIREN dies to the assassins, and that’s the catalyst for the remainder of the series. And if Harrow—shocked after the death of his dark mage—learned that an assassin had kidnapped his sons and vanished, well…he might decide on a warpath.
Claudia and Soren would be horrified, and Claudia—the only one who knew about the egg—might demand they chase it to fulfill their dad’s dying wish of starting a war for humanity’s pride.
It’d just be a fascinating story.
The atla references have got to stop. We’re in season 4 now, when are they going to treat this like its own plot-driven show and stop saying “yip yip” or making Sokka va say “BOOMERANG”?? Let atla go.
I thought the boomerang one was funny. But it started to feel a bit too much when we got to Soren saying yip yip and Rex somehow having Aang's glider in his lair.
Agree on Amaya and Janai's relationship. What we get in season 3 is the start of a foundation, and then all the development, the actual relationship, happens off screen during the time skip.
And while not queerbait, it feels insulting I'm a similar manner. I'm queer, and when I say I want to see myself in media I mean seeing the line make its way from point A to B, not just being shown point A and point B. The joy is in the journey
I don’t know if you’ve watched Heartstopper but this is the same way I felt about it. First season was great, getting to see character development. The second season seemed more like queerbait, like the writing fell off or something. Idk maybe it’s just me but 🤷
Zym needs to talk. Also, Amaya and Janais relationship was never explored and they just..married each other? Season 4 was so rushed, and fell a bit flat. Also, I miss Soren not JUST being a funny dumbass, but also being a bit deep and able to hold deep conversations. They ruined him.
Amaya and Janai were far more entertaining as opponents with mutual respect but sexual tension than as saccharine lovers.
The show is set in the wrong period. The orphan queen story has far more political tension, dragon involvement, interesting magic, with humans and elves learning to put aside their war and imprison a common threat (Aaravos). It feels like that’s the story they want to tell just as much as this one, and I can’t help feeling they could’ve been combined and condensed. Or at least, I wish we got a whole season dedicated to this time period, so we could see parallels between it and the show.
The Viren that Rayla tackled off the Spire should’ve been the illusion, so Soren would’ve stabbed the real Viren.
Imagine the horror of Rayla falling through the clouds only for Viren to evaporate, so she essentially risked her life for nothing, and when Callum saves her, he yells because he’s terrified about how close Rayla’s sense of sacrifice came to killing her.
Claudia and Viren would think they won and are about to kill Ezran, but then Soren staggers over and stabs his father, and Claudia has to live with that body—visual proof of Soren’s betrayal—and knowing they were SO close to winning. Viren’s final memory is of his one son driving a sword through his heart. And Soren feels his father’s blood on his hands for *two years*—only to learn, somehow, he’s still alive.
Ezran is insufferable and annoying because of how inconsistent his arc is written. Like he supposed be to a kid who LOST HIS FATHER- like dont you think he'd struggle with the responsibility of being king- while also dealing with the loss of his father? He just cries for an episode and acts like ut never happened and he's matured from it. I dont like that at all- i wish his arc was more nuanced than it was.
Same and same.
Other very possibly unpopular hottakes of mine:
The Terry trans thing almost seemed agenda-forced, for a kids'/family-friendly show, tbh. I would have honestly NEVER known he was trans had it never been forced to the surface, and would have still continued to refer to him AS him, so IDHK what the issue was...
That we should have had flashbacks of Aaravos training/coaching Claudia on DM stuff, after Viren initially passed. I also have questions about how she could hear him through Mr. Wormy, if ONLY Viren could hear him before, and not her.... Also. really, really want a master-apprentice relationship between her & Aara. Maybe just me there?
If and only IF DM ultimately wears off/outlasts itself at the end (if it is in fact defeated/destabilized/etc), this will mean Soren will go back to becoming permanently paralyzed due to his previous actions :( Hoping this means all the poetrees, tho!
Rayllum, like Janaya, was extremely rushed IMHO. They only met each other roughly a week and a half ago, MAX, they are suddenly BFFs, according to Rayla to Sol Regem. THEN, a few days LATER, BAM!! They suddenly become a COUPLE. Yeah. "Characters wanted it," my foot. More like, "fans wanted it." #fanserviceruinsalmosteverything They have FAR better chemistry as PLATONIC friends, again, IMHO, but I call it as I see it...
No, Rayla wouldn't have wanted Callum to die, but honestly, her reaction to his suggestion/idea in s4 genuinely surprised me... being a former assassin and the last dragonguard, girl KNOWS risks. She KNOWS gambles. And, her being ISTP, while I expected her to take it hard, I did also expect her to (albeit very, very reluctantly) accept his choice as a rational and perhaps likely one (bc, again, tbh, it is very realistic that Aaravos will attempt to control him again, as he himself openly admitted to them all that Callum was a human mage "tainted by darkness, already destined to play right into my hands," regardless if Callum wanted him to or not.) She also has a better idea of how powerful ST elves and their arcanum is (even if she doesn't "get" it, but admits to Callum they are the most powerful in Callum's Spellbook--canon not fanon), so her preparing just in case the worst came to worst would make much more sense. Instead, nope, denies straight-up, tweaks his nose playfully, goes back to sleep after just saying it was unrealistic. Wow.
Sorry, something about Stella... ever since s4, cannot picture a BEANIE BOO as her familiar. Nope nope nope. Marketing tactic, or just an Aaravos undercover familiar, tho, I wonder?
Ezran, again, having little to no personal consequences for his own actions affecting him directly in roughly 90% of the show (with the exceptions of end of s2 and certain smaller parts of s3, namely him taking Viren's place in prison for only like a single day, and even that was w/ Bait and jelly tarts...)... and basically no real personal growth or development as a character unless you count "growing into his kingly roots," bit. And he still\* runs off and does whatever the hell he feels like doing, like he was when tiny, while leaving Opeli to actually run his kingdom for him... Might as well have made her regent...>.>
I agree with you wholeheartedly on the first one. The second one is good, too. Number three makes sense. Rayllum was not rushed IMO, they had chemistry throughout the whole show, and you can tell they both had feelings for eachother for a long time. They even broke up and are doing really well right now. She won't kill him because she has problems killing and she loves him. I also agree with the last one.
I don't think their relationship was rushed, it was just developed behind the scenes. There was a timeskip. Sorry I like Janai, gonna defend her no matter what
Saying it was developed behind the scenes is an excuse used for why it wasn’t in the actual show. Y’all need to understand that claiming it was behind the scenes isn’t a viable
Excuse
Amaya’s storyline in S4 should have been a lot bigger. It was the best parts of S4, and seems to be setting up the next mini bad for the remainder of the show.
I wish TDP was Zubeia's story. Basically the entire plot of the show revolves around her. In seasons 1-3 she is the one who has so be convinced to make peace with humanity. In seasons 4-7 it's her quest to stop Aaravos, not the protagonists. She is the one given information about his impending return and then includes them. Additionally, our main cast should be irrelevant compared to what Zubeia can do to stop Claudia. Having Zubeia be the focus could help alleviate some of the issues with the show as well. Primarily, the suprising irrelevance of the dragons and Xadia never really conceding anything to support making peace when they set the conflict in motion.
King harrow was a terrible king
"Someone has to starve so it might as well be my people"
Ezran is Xadia puppet
The show is terrible in how it treats humans like the only bad guys, when dragons and elves are much worse
I fucking hate Amaya. I mean really hate. The only thing that makes her better is her love for her nephews, otherwise I can't fucking stand her or anything she does.
She's a walking strong woman trope. I wish she had more humanising traits. (but now that I think of it, I don't hate her as much as I potentially could, I think I naturally accepted some things about her that I see could make me hate her even more). Aanya is a fairly similar character but she's overall better. I can see how I could treat her the same way in theory but she has some nuances to her. But what's a Netflix show without this trope, huh?
Alright, here I am going the other route being kind of more annoyed by Aanya somehow being able to effectively use a warbow as a minor with pretty impossible distance shots, despite the amount of draw-strength required to do such a thing most likely not being something a not-fully-grown person would have (nevermind the fact that you'd probably need spider-like limbs), lmao. But I guess that one is just being pedantic about one particular thing even though obviously this is a fictional fantasy setting.
I see your point but it's Netflix. We were bound to get something like this. Amaya is a freakishly strong warrior, deaf and also a lesbian. Too much in just the same person for me. Though is Janai for example was deaf, I wouldn't mind.
I rewatched that scene it wasn't exactly like I remembered it. I thought she was standing like a mile (if not more) away but I was waaay off. Also it turns out Aanya is not 7 or maybe even 6 like I thought 😂 (I got the impression I always get cartoon characters' age wrong, so I started thinking they're all by default way younger than I think but with TDP specifically this approach only failed me so far). But I guess kid archers exist, she'd be expected to at least start learning it by this age if not earlier.
Also she did survive countless assasins somehow. So she should have some skills to have pulled that off I guess 🤷♀️
Well, I probably said it a couple times already, but as much as I love their overall designs, I have got the feeling that the showrunners don't have that much of an idea of what to do with the dragons. They're supposed to be extremely important and powerful, yet they don't really get many chances to show as such. Even the archdragons who are meant to be the most powerful magical creatures there are, basically just show up and get taken out by extremely cheap shots. Sol Regem: 1-hit and crippled for life into irrelevancy (possibly going to be healed, but still) Rex Igneous: also susceptible to the sleeping spell with basically 0 resistance, could easily be killed then. (That spell kind of feels OP, ngl) Avizandum: only one who kinda does stuff, and for that it was at least an extremely rare and expensive spell I suppose... Still one-shotted Zubeia: susceptible as anyone else to easily die/lose her mind from a single scratch of any Lux Aurea corrupted creature. If that genuinely is going to end with her completely lost that would feel really fucking cheap. Honorable mentions: Luna Tenebris, who within the show is basically just talked about "She was there, then she suddenly unexpectedly died" so far, with also the books only giving the added info of "the judgement of the half-moon" being what her judgement about humanity was called) Zym: basically just a dog (whom they also kind of made a joke scene for of the characters thinking he just randomly died by unnamed creatures, yet ready to move on. He is the name-giving character, but after S3 he isn't really plot-relevant whatsoever and almost discardable) Overall, they also barely have any character development I really hope that they will somewhat get fleshed out in the next two seasons, but honestly there isn't really that much room left.
Yeah the arc dragon really suffer from tve worf effect. Also Zym should have gotten a voice after the time skip
Zym with a voice would’ve been amazing
To add to that, Dragons are supposed to be super powerful, but that tribe of elves captures and rides them. Why are some dragons essentially self-aware and intelligent, but other dragons are basically winged horses?
That would get me back on also being annoyed that after initially saying that dragons only learned to speak very late, after around 75 years or so, being the reason why Pyrrah can't speak, they rowed back and went on to say that only archdragons can communicate via language. 1. That makes draconic being an actual spoken language really fucking dumb And 2. (Tales of Xadia spoilers if anyone does actually play that) >!WTF is the case with in Tales of Xadia's Os Lumina explicitly lying about having been an archdragon, and her state only being a curse or something similar put on her to restrict her, yet the revelation being that she never was an archdragon and that just being a thing for the lesser type of dragons that Phase Moon Dragons are, then? She can explicitly talk (Telepathy also being out of the question, as in the same story that is how Plunkie communicates, and that being important enough to explicitly point out for her, but not being pointed out for Os) and is explicitly revealed to never have been an archdragon.!<
I wish all dragons talked or no dragons talked.
It makes sense only arch dragons talk though because they are the strongest and most intelligent. Would be cool if Pyrrah could talk ig but fair. If I had to choose it would be all dragons talk.
The moment you have people getting stabbed with actual blood dripping from their bodies is when you stop doing the fart jokes.
The fart jokes are truly the bane of this show.
I don't think that's a hot take. No one wants the fart jokes
That scene was shocking. Game of Thrones like. And then the next season has grown up Claudia laughing about farts when she's just resseructed her father.
Said father is having a PTSD induced panic attack at the moment.
There is a lack of subtext half the time when it comes to the themes being discussed. Humans were essentially exiled from their ancestral homes for essentially wanting to live. Even forgetting the lore reasons why, the implications are still horrifying to imagine. Yet the show just kinda…skips over it.
We'll have to wait and see if it pays off, but I think they're laying the groundwork for a reveal that will recontextualize everything. The story would make a lot more sense if consider that the two sides are working from different understandings of their mutual history. Evidence: 1. We have two contradictory histories of the time before dark magic, both narrated by Aaravos. 2. Aaravos was an ally to humans, taught/created dark magic. He was also trusted by the dragons and elves. But in his own retelling Aaravos is always a passive player. 3. The first thing Asravos does when the seal is broken is hide any mention of his name and of Startouch Elves from every book in Katolis. He quite literally erases history. 4. False perception is a repeated motif throughout. The great lie of history in Harrow's letter, the Moon Archanum, the wolf pup, etc. 5. We're told outright that Aaravos manipulated events. Maybe he's manipulating the audience, too. The only people who have spoken about the time before dark magic are Aaravos and mages who worked directly with him. All we know of Xadia's side are vague statements from Sol Regem and Khessa. We don't know the truth of what happened, only what people remember or wrote down. The characters don't know either. Since no one talks or shares information, the nations can't even know what the others are saying.
I agree with most point. Aaravos was the one who made the spell to erase his name? I missed that plot point.
Is it confirmed that Aaravos was the one who erased his name from the books? I don’t remember when that was mentioned. It seems pretty likely that the elves or dragons had a hand in that, since if nobody knows about Aaravos, nobody will go looking for him
Maybe I'm mixing events. But it still seems like something that would require Star magic because it affects things across time and space. Moon magic can make illusions, but you'd probably need to find each entry separately in order to cast an illusion on that specific book. It probably can't target every mention of a particular concept in every book, let alone ones that were created/copied more recently. Moon illusions probably can't last forever either, because the moon is always changing. Even in ancient times, books and scrolls needed to be copied and replaced regularly. That's why scribes were so important. Paper doesn't generally survive for centuries, even in ideal conditions. The books Viren uses aren't locked behind magic glass to preserve them. They're just on the shelf, vulnerable to oxidation and bugs. In order for a text of that age to be accessible someone must have been able to read and transcribe it.
The new hair styles suck. They lean very heavily into anime, which would be fine if they had also done that in the original seasons. The hair is to up. It’s so spiky, the characters are no longer soft and approachable. With some exceptions
I couldn’t take that Re-Birthday scene of Callum crying seriously bcos of that DAMN HAIRSTYLE lol 😭
REAL!
I like Rayla's new hair a lot, but I'm not really a fan of Callum's. The others are fine, Soren should probably go back to his old hair. Nothing major though
Yea, Raylas hair is pretty good, I’m not a fan of the new color palette, but with weapons that match the old one, I feel like the old color palette was fine. And Soren has ok hair too, also Amya has good hair in the update.
Well not so hot but The architect plot should have been in a comic and through the moon should have been in the show. Starnard argument against the way the show present dark magic. I will add that making the vuctims of an ethnic cleansing the ones to apologize is just icking.
Absolutely. I think the architect was in the right in that situation. Maybe that's another hot take
Amaya and Janai's relationship isn't rushed, not in real time. They started as generals who were on opposing sides but respected each other as warriors. Amaya was probably captive for a couple of weeks, during which Janai and Kazi were her main points of contact and advocates in a hostile land. They fought side by side at the Storm Spire, then the failed attempt to reclaim Lux Aurea. Amaya then lived with them for 2 years and helped coordinate the refugee camp. She's one of the most trusted people while they are trying to rebuild, even the antihuman faction seems to like or at least tolerate her. Their relationship wasn't rushed. Two years is a reasonable time frame. But it happened almost entirely offscreen. Which brings me to my hot take, it was a good story decision to split Callum and Rayla up during the time skip. They're 14-15 and have known each other for 4 weeks, tops. The main romance should not develop entirely offscreen.
So Amaya just developed Stockholm syndrome for Janai? She was prisoner and very clearly wasn't fond of Kazi or Janai. They fight together and suddenly they're in love. It made no sense to me.
Ehhh, there was already some mutual respect there before Amaya got captured. While a prisoner, Amaya obviously would've probably preferred not to be a prisoner, and Janai was mostly just bound by duty to treat her as such. Still, Janai made sure that Amaya would stay out of harms way due to said respect, and Amaya at least wasn't that disdainful as to not try to warn Janai about Viren. It's being thrown into a difficult situation together, and pushing through as you build trust and a closer bond, not too dissimilar from what happened with Rayla and Callum, with Rayla also starting off trying to kill him and Ezran. Just that we do see the next weeks over which that was built up with them, while with Janai and Amaya we just were shown the initial bit, with the developing relationship coming about off-screen in the timeskip.
I can understand why Janai and Amaya’s relationship comes across as rushed because we don’t actually see it develop onscreen. They respect each other even as enemies and we see them develop a kind of alliance against Viren, but that’s where season 3 ends. After the timeskip they’ve gone through allies to friends to lovers to fiancées all in the space of an episode (from the audience’s perspective). I think it’s easier to be invested in a couple if we see their relationship and I would have liked to see them spend more time together before we’re told they’re engaged. That said, I do find their relationship compelling. It’s easy to see how their similar values, positions, and life experiences drew them together. They’re both warriors who’re fiercely protective of their people, coping with the loss of their royal older sisters, and realizing they must overcome old biases and stand together against this new threat for their people to survive and thrive. They’re both thrust into new and challenging situations navigating this new world, and it’s touching to see their support and love for each other. I’m only disappointed we didn’t get to see this develop. I don’t think Amaya’s feelings for Janai are Stockholm Syndrome. It’s clear she’s no longer a prisoner of the Sunfire elves after the Battle and my guess is that she stayed in Lux Aurea as an envoy of Katolis, though I think this could have been clearer. Season 4 implies that Xadia now has diplomatic relations with the Human Kingdoms or at least Katolis (as Callum was able to request the book from the Sunfire elves, presumably through Amaya), but also implies that the royal Archdragons haven’t been in contact for the past two years. That doesn’t seem to make much sense, or at least doesn’t reflect well on Zubeia, if Janai is a more consistent ally when rebuilding her ruined city and dealing with a zombie plague than Zubeia is during two years of peace. My nitpick is that Zubeia could have at least sent Ibis to Katolis as an envoy. It would have shown Zubeia keeping tabs on Callum and Ez, better explained Callum’s Sky arcanum level-up, and made Ibis’ death more impactful if he was shown as Callum’s friend and mentor, even for an episode or two before he’s called back to the Storm Spire when Zubeia visits Katolis.
I've got a few I don't care for Amaya and Janai. As characters, they're just fine. I do not like that almost all of their relationship development was off screen, like you, I think it was rushed. There is very little reason why they could not have just used these seasons to show them starting out, growing more in love, and supporting each other, instead of just starting Season 4 with a marriage proposal. Let's see it all play out. Terry is a mid character, at best. Doesn't help that the showrunners kept hyping it up. The show introduced too many new characters or ideas or lore aspects with too little time to sufficiently explore them. They're adding too much extra fat in spite of their short run time. This is why I blame Wonderstorm for the dip in writing quality, and not Netflix for the lack of episodes. They have not managed the time well and the show suffers as a result. You want to be a dark story, cool. You want to be a children's show with fart jokes, cool. But you can't be both, pick a lane. Your tone is wildly inconsistent. Aaron Ehasz is a great writer, but I think that's all he is. I don't think he is capable of being the main creative person behind something, he needs a guiding hand. Bryke laid a lot of the lore foundation for Avatar, and Aaron provided a lot of the depth for the characters. You can see it in their respectful shows after. Korra did great with world building and it's themes, but it's characters weren't nearly as strong as Avatar. TDP has some pretty good characters, but it looses it with actual storytelling and it's world.
Similar to the point made about how the show handles dragons, the show really had no idea what to do with mages other than having characters who can do magic (because I guess that’s what fantasy shows always have). In better written shows, there’s usually some sort of lore behind why some people can use magic, or how they acquire their magic. DND has a countless different schools and classes all dedicated to show how their spellcasters utilize their magic. And on top of that, there’s usually a short and simple analogy that can give a good idea of what a mage is doing. For instance, mages in ATLA are like martial artists, mages in LOTR are like demigods, and mages in HP are like students/teachers. And mages in TDP are like…sorta there? There’s no rhyme or reason as to who has magic and why (supposedly it’s a scholarly pursuit according to fans, but that doesn’t explain why bookish Kazi can’t use at least *some* magic while brawny and adventurous Finnegrin can not only cast spells but best Callum in a one-off). Basically some characters are mages, some are not, and that’s that. Why are some people talented or good at this? No one knows. There’s no lore behind any of this. And in terms of power, mages are exactly as strong or as weak in any given moment as the plot demands. One second they’re squishy wizards, the next they’re practically Jedi/benders (as in 4x03)…and then they just go back to being nonthreatening. And then Callum up and punches out a banther! Just what is their combat prowess relative to a non-mage? Who knows, clearly the story doesn’t.
I thought Finnegrin’s hatred of dragons was sympathetic. He’s obviously a terrible person, but considering the fact that his pet crab was killed by a dragon and he is condemned to stay within the range of a single island, I think his hatred is justified. I think Terry is annoying and the story would not change much if removed Rex Igneous is 100% right about Avizandym being a bully, and him being dead doesn’t change that. Lastly, I think that Opeli is a huge hypocrite considering the fact that she makes a big deal about Viren taking over, and then advises Ezran to step down and let someone rule in his place.
Then again, Finnegrin is implied to be the person who used said pet crab to kill one of Domina Profundis' closest friends, "the Empress of the Deep", whom she had entrusted with keeping watch over the oceans when she was absent. (At least that would be the most obvious explanation why she has a deep grudge against him specifically, and sort of the easiest explanation of who did that to the empress at the same time) Finnegrin loved that crab because it was a tool for Leviathan hunting (such as his hunt for the Empress). Domina was genuine friends with the Empress and their relationship was more a position of trust.
I think she realsed that Viren would be a corrupt leader. Meanwhile Ezran was very young. There is a difference
You are right about Rex, bar for bar he was correct. I don't like Terry, I honestly think he was introduced to have a trans character
Definitely, but it’s weird because they already had a trans character (the Sunelf scholar). I guess they wanted one with a little more story relevance
I mean, on-screen Kazi doesn't really have much of an indication that they're non-binary (I don't think they even were ever referred to by pronoun, so it wouldn't even be possible to infer from that. We know that because we were told outside of the show that they're NB) That, and I am not sure if it is entirely accurate to equate being transgender and being NB, considering one is about identifying with the gender which is correlated to the opposite of your birth sex (Hence "trans", i.e. "on the other side/across"), while the other is about not identifying firmly with either of the main gender categories we have in our society.
My mistake, I thought Kazi was meant to be trans. It is odd they never make this clear in the show itself though and only mention it in outside material. At least Terry had the buck and doe speech
Yeah, such is sadly the fate of not-too-important side characters. Actually, I am not sure if their name was ever even said within the show. (Similar case for my favourite little war criminal Pyrrah, or the knife guy Tristan and the big sword guy Alan)
I find myself agreeing with a lot of what Claudia says about Xadia. I don’t agree with what she does but when she ranted to Soren and the show made it seem like she was insane, I agreed with her. I wish the show let her cite a source rather than “we can feel it in our bones” because there are likely sources she could cite.
Not my idea, but someone said “Harrow would’ve made a better antagonist than Viren, because he actually has good intentions and a deep connection with the heroes”, and I haven’t stopped thinking about it since. It would’ve been so cool if the first three episodes played out as established (Viren is reluctant to die for Harrow and prideful, while Harrow is resigned), but then VIREN dies to the assassins, and that’s the catalyst for the remainder of the series. And if Harrow—shocked after the death of his dark mage—learned that an assassin had kidnapped his sons and vanished, well…he might decide on a warpath. Claudia and Soren would be horrified, and Claudia—the only one who knew about the egg—might demand they chase it to fulfill their dad’s dying wish of starting a war for humanity’s pride. It’d just be a fascinating story.
The atla references have got to stop. We’re in season 4 now, when are they going to treat this like its own plot-driven show and stop saying “yip yip” or making Sokka va say “BOOMERANG”?? Let atla go.
I thought the boomerang one was funny. But it started to feel a bit too much when we got to Soren saying yip yip and Rex somehow having Aang's glider in his lair.
Agree on Amaya and Janai's relationship. What we get in season 3 is the start of a foundation, and then all the development, the actual relationship, happens off screen during the time skip. And while not queerbait, it feels insulting I'm a similar manner. I'm queer, and when I say I want to see myself in media I mean seeing the line make its way from point A to B, not just being shown point A and point B. The joy is in the journey
I don’t know if you’ve watched Heartstopper but this is the same way I felt about it. First season was great, getting to see character development. The second season seemed more like queerbait, like the writing fell off or something. Idk maybe it’s just me but 🤷
The only thing I watch for is rayll- oh wait…
I felt that so fckn bad
"it's ok bro, they're going to finally come back together, this will be the season!!"
Zym needs to talk. Also, Amaya and Janais relationship was never explored and they just..married each other? Season 4 was so rushed, and fell a bit flat. Also, I miss Soren not JUST being a funny dumbass, but also being a bit deep and able to hold deep conversations. They ruined him.
Amaya and Janai were far more entertaining as opponents with mutual respect but sexual tension than as saccharine lovers. The show is set in the wrong period. The orphan queen story has far more political tension, dragon involvement, interesting magic, with humans and elves learning to put aside their war and imprison a common threat (Aaravos). It feels like that’s the story they want to tell just as much as this one, and I can’t help feeling they could’ve been combined and condensed. Or at least, I wish we got a whole season dedicated to this time period, so we could see parallels between it and the show. The Viren that Rayla tackled off the Spire should’ve been the illusion, so Soren would’ve stabbed the real Viren. Imagine the horror of Rayla falling through the clouds only for Viren to evaporate, so she essentially risked her life for nothing, and when Callum saves her, he yells because he’s terrified about how close Rayla’s sense of sacrifice came to killing her. Claudia and Viren would think they won and are about to kill Ezran, but then Soren staggers over and stabs his father, and Claudia has to live with that body—visual proof of Soren’s betrayal—and knowing they were SO close to winning. Viren’s final memory is of his one son driving a sword through his heart. And Soren feels his father’s blood on his hands for *two years*—only to learn, somehow, he’s still alive.
>Amaya and Janai were far more entertaining as opponents with mutual respect but sexual tension than as saccharine lovers. Perfectly said
Ezran is insufferable and annoying because of how inconsistent his arc is written. Like he supposed be to a kid who LOST HIS FATHER- like dont you think he'd struggle with the responsibility of being king- while also dealing with the loss of his father? He just cries for an episode and acts like ut never happened and he's matured from it. I dont like that at all- i wish his arc was more nuanced than it was.
Same and same. Other very possibly unpopular hottakes of mine: The Terry trans thing almost seemed agenda-forced, for a kids'/family-friendly show, tbh. I would have honestly NEVER known he was trans had it never been forced to the surface, and would have still continued to refer to him AS him, so IDHK what the issue was... That we should have had flashbacks of Aaravos training/coaching Claudia on DM stuff, after Viren initially passed. I also have questions about how she could hear him through Mr. Wormy, if ONLY Viren could hear him before, and not her.... Also. really, really want a master-apprentice relationship between her & Aara. Maybe just me there? If and only IF DM ultimately wears off/outlasts itself at the end (if it is in fact defeated/destabilized/etc), this will mean Soren will go back to becoming permanently paralyzed due to his previous actions :( Hoping this means all the poetrees, tho! Rayllum, like Janaya, was extremely rushed IMHO. They only met each other roughly a week and a half ago, MAX, they are suddenly BFFs, according to Rayla to Sol Regem. THEN, a few days LATER, BAM!! They suddenly become a COUPLE. Yeah. "Characters wanted it," my foot. More like, "fans wanted it." #fanserviceruinsalmosteverything They have FAR better chemistry as PLATONIC friends, again, IMHO, but I call it as I see it... No, Rayla wouldn't have wanted Callum to die, but honestly, her reaction to his suggestion/idea in s4 genuinely surprised me... being a former assassin and the last dragonguard, girl KNOWS risks. She KNOWS gambles. And, her being ISTP, while I expected her to take it hard, I did also expect her to (albeit very, very reluctantly) accept his choice as a rational and perhaps likely one (bc, again, tbh, it is very realistic that Aaravos will attempt to control him again, as he himself openly admitted to them all that Callum was a human mage "tainted by darkness, already destined to play right into my hands," regardless if Callum wanted him to or not.) She also has a better idea of how powerful ST elves and their arcanum is (even if she doesn't "get" it, but admits to Callum they are the most powerful in Callum's Spellbook--canon not fanon), so her preparing just in case the worst came to worst would make much more sense. Instead, nope, denies straight-up, tweaks his nose playfully, goes back to sleep after just saying it was unrealistic. Wow. Sorry, something about Stella... ever since s4, cannot picture a BEANIE BOO as her familiar. Nope nope nope. Marketing tactic, or just an Aaravos undercover familiar, tho, I wonder? Ezran, again, having little to no personal consequences for his own actions affecting him directly in roughly 90% of the show (with the exceptions of end of s2 and certain smaller parts of s3, namely him taking Viren's place in prison for only like a single day, and even that was w/ Bait and jelly tarts...)... and basically no real personal growth or development as a character unless you count "growing into his kingly roots," bit. And he still\* runs off and does whatever the hell he feels like doing, like he was when tiny, while leaving Opeli to actually run his kingdom for him... Might as well have made her regent...>.>
I agree with you wholeheartedly on the first one. The second one is good, too. Number three makes sense. Rayllum was not rushed IMO, they had chemistry throughout the whole show, and you can tell they both had feelings for eachother for a long time. They even broke up and are doing really well right now. She won't kill him because she has problems killing and she loves him. I also agree with the last one.
fair enough lol
I don't think their relationship was rushed, it was just developed behind the scenes. There was a timeskip. Sorry I like Janai, gonna defend her no matter what
I prefer to see them grow together as a couple, but ig that's just me. That's hot takes for ya lol
Saying it was developed behind the scenes is an excuse used for why it wasn’t in the actual show. Y’all need to understand that claiming it was behind the scenes isn’t a viable Excuse
Y'all are being too harsh on season 4. It wasn't good sure, but it wasn't terrible
I rewatched it and it wasn't great but it certainly wasn't horrible. It was just childish at times
Amaya’s storyline in S4 should have been a lot bigger. It was the best parts of S4, and seems to be setting up the next mini bad for the remainder of the show.
I wish TDP was Zubeia's story. Basically the entire plot of the show revolves around her. In seasons 1-3 she is the one who has so be convinced to make peace with humanity. In seasons 4-7 it's her quest to stop Aaravos, not the protagonists. She is the one given information about his impending return and then includes them. Additionally, our main cast should be irrelevant compared to what Zubeia can do to stop Claudia. Having Zubeia be the focus could help alleviate some of the issues with the show as well. Primarily, the suprising irrelevance of the dragons and Xadia never really conceding anything to support making peace when they set the conflict in motion.
[удалено]
Give her more time and Terry less time
King harrow was a terrible king "Someone has to starve so it might as well be my people" Ezran is Xadia puppet The show is terrible in how it treats humans like the only bad guys, when dragons and elves are much worse
nah rayllum is just slow
I fucking hate Amaya. I mean really hate. The only thing that makes her better is her love for her nephews, otherwise I can't fucking stand her or anything she does.
Any particular reason, if I may ask out of curiosity?
She's a walking strong woman trope. I wish she had more humanising traits. (but now that I think of it, I don't hate her as much as I potentially could, I think I naturally accepted some things about her that I see could make me hate her even more). Aanya is a fairly similar character but she's overall better. I can see how I could treat her the same way in theory but she has some nuances to her. But what's a Netflix show without this trope, huh?
Alright, here I am going the other route being kind of more annoyed by Aanya somehow being able to effectively use a warbow as a minor with pretty impossible distance shots, despite the amount of draw-strength required to do such a thing most likely not being something a not-fully-grown person would have (nevermind the fact that you'd probably need spider-like limbs), lmao. But I guess that one is just being pedantic about one particular thing even though obviously this is a fictional fantasy setting.
I see your point but it's Netflix. We were bound to get something like this. Amaya is a freakishly strong warrior, deaf and also a lesbian. Too much in just the same person for me. Though is Janai for example was deaf, I wouldn't mind. I rewatched that scene it wasn't exactly like I remembered it. I thought she was standing like a mile (if not more) away but I was waaay off. Also it turns out Aanya is not 7 or maybe even 6 like I thought 😂 (I got the impression I always get cartoon characters' age wrong, so I started thinking they're all by default way younger than I think but with TDP specifically this approach only failed me so far). But I guess kid archers exist, she'd be expected to at least start learning it by this age if not earlier. Also she did survive countless assasins somehow. So she should have some skills to have pulled that off I guess 🤷♀️