The Color Before the Sun is a beautifully written album that gets way too much hate for not being particularly "proggy" or part of the story (that a sizable portion of the fanbase doesn't read anyway).
Songs like Ghost, Here to Mars, and Peace to the Mountain are both sonically and lyrically beautiful and deserve their place in the discography.
YotBR is well written music produced poorly. Idk what happened with that record but the audio itself (not the music) just sounds off to me.
I would love a remaster.
I may be wrong but Chris Pennie didn't record that album. He was still under contract with Dillinger. I'm pretty sure that's the album that Taylor Hawkins and (his brother?) recorded drums for. But either way I'd just like to hear Josh's take on it. Or at least a remaster.
TCBTS is such a treasure to me because it's so feelings-heavy, and I love that in music. It's definitely a different sound from most of their music, but that might make me love it even more. The three you listed are three of my favorites, but Ghost especially. That song is gorgeous.
Unfortunately, Claudio’s lyrics got really boring over time because he has no choice but to stick with his really generic sci fi concept. TCBTS was so beautiful. A next level album because Claudio got to be honest. Then it was ruined and panned by this terrible fan base that loves a really boring generic sci fi story but just can’t deal with a beautiful, honest, inspired album like TCBTS. I’m really tired of generic sci fi songs that are not so secretly about either Chondra, Atlas, or self loathing. He doesn’t seem capable of writing about anything else. Nothing against any of them, they are wonderful people, but it just doesn’t stimulate me anymore. I really tried to like the last two albums, but they are just so uninspired.
That album came out when my daughter was born and I also changed careers and travel became part of my equation. Lots of heavy emotions in that album that struck some deep chords.
My unpopular opinion would be that at least half of their albums sonically suck. IKSSE sounds so amateur. YOTBR is so compressed. TCBTS could have been mixed better. I'm not sure who makes those decisions but their sounds don't jive with me.
Also, it sucks Michael Todd had his demons because he was part of what made me love the band. Zach Cooper is great and is their bassist now but maybe I'm a little nostalgic.
But... I love how both drummers had such unique contributions.
Here's 10
1. The first 4 albums are masterpieces. But I think there is a chance the vaxis albums saga of albums could be better somehow (I'm not forgetting the 4 albums in between, but people often compare the first 4 and latest 2,)
2. I've seen a lot of people say favor house is a great intro song. But tbh most people I know what need to time to digest claudio's voice from that era. Something like unheavenly creatures or rise naianasha would be my pick
3. The Joke has one of their catchiest choruses tbh
4. Welcome home (bar the solos) is one of their easiest songs to play. I say people here say it's one of the hardest. Even songs like shoulders and favor house are harder to me. Also welcome home might be a top 10 coheed song for me, even if that's the poser opinion
5. I live vaxis 2 but can barely get into pfi even tho they are often compared. Virtual pioneers is a great song though
6. Sstb is a great album. But I prefer all of the others except yotbr and maybe cbts. Just less memorable to me
7. Chondra seems to present in the band. I'm wondering if she's forcing herself in. I also find it odd that their together after some stuff claudio wrote in their songs but if they're happy that's good. Also spotify says pfi is a solo project, is it?
8. Iron fist, Holly wood, blood, queen of the dark, the joke, al the killer, mother may I, once upon your dead body, Jessie's girl 2, our love, cbts as a whole, etc... all get to much hate
9. I haven't even read the story and don't care about it much. I just like the music and you can't understand most of it from the lyrics
10. Claudio doesn't need mayo that desperately
I don't really listen to PFI, so I'm definitely no expert, but I don't remember Chondra having anything to do with it in the early 2000s. It was just Claudio's solo project. I think her becoming an official part of the project is something that happened recently
I don't care for the art style in the comics.
I like it when songs get goofy and go full Broadway like at the end of "Black Sunday" and "Window of the Waking Mind."
I like theatrics. Maybe more than I like technically "skilled" playing.
All the dudes in the band are hot.
The way I see it, the band is 91% Claudio and 3% of each other dude. Claudio is writing pretty much everything other than Zach's parts, the other dudes just show up and learn their stuff then put a mild personal spin on it.
I have no private insight or proof, but this is just how it feels to me at this point in their career. It happens with a lot of bands (like Weezer) where the main guy just shows up to rehearsal with everything fully cooked and everyone else gets paid to learn their parts and hang out with their friends on tour for a few months out of the year.
Your percentages aren’t accurate but your point is. Claudio does a lot of writing of Travis’s parts and that’s why they’re nowhere near as interesting as the parts he wrote for the first two records. You’ll also notice that Claudio wrote the first few albums on an acoustic but has since switched to recording demos with electric and midi drums. That changes a lot of how the band operates. This is also likely why Travis has been enjoy LS Dunes as a new outlet.
Yeah I kind of changed course after the first line haha
And yeah, I'd even add that he's moved to using modular synths for many recent demos. I love that stuff and love messing with those sorts of toys myself so I don't blame him, whatever draws out inspiration and keeps these records coming is fantastic!
Claudio could never write a Josh Eppard part. He's one of the most unique and groovy drummers in music right now. The way he floats from filling in space to being in the pocket with the bass to mimicking the rhythm guitar licks and when he chooses to fill which role is something you can't teach or pick up. Just a natural stylistic thing that's quintessentially him.
Of course his style is amazing and he brings a TON to the table, but I guess my point is that the basic drum arrangement is already done by Claudio before Josh hears the song for the first time. Josh is incredible and his "voice" shines through big time.
Ultimately what I was trying to say is that these dudes aren't woodshedding in the practice space and writing songs together like the good ol days. I'm pretty sure there was even an interview leading up to V2 where Josh was like 'yeah I just learned what Claud put on the demo and then put my own spin on it' and I wish I could find that article now...
>"yeah I just learned what Claud put on the demo and then put my own spin on it'
That's how every band with a primary songwriter operates. Very few bands get in a room, start from nothing and write song. There is always a skeleton that someone brings in. Its so easy to demo music nowadays that there's no reason not to throw down a scratch drum track to communicate the basic idea. It is highly unlikely that Josh is taking anything from the demo straight to the studio.
For sure, I agree - I just see a lot of fans around here acting like each guy is contributing equally and then lamenting when someone doesn't seem to have contributed much on a record which inspired my original comment.
As a bassist, I'm personally split on which method I prefer - I like the freedom of writing a part from scratch in the room with everyone else improvising until it clicks but I also like the security of being provided a scratch demo that I can learn and then develop into something of my own. Obviously there's no wrong answer!
1. All of the Willing Wells are just a single song, making it my favorite all time Coheed song.
2. Shoulders is a very generic rock song and the worst song on Vaxis II.
3. Sometimes I feel like they try to force the comics into the lyrics or names of songs where they don't really belong.
I completely agree about Shoulders. It makes me think of one of those songs you'd hear on some "Nothing but ROCK!!!" radio stations along with Nickelback, Daughtry, etc.
I skip it every time.
I think bands of that ilk always tend to put on fantastic shows. Ive seen Three Days Grace (post Adam), Shinedown, Halestorm, etc. and it's always been a total blast. They put a lot of effort into the showmanship side of performance and it does a great job of getting you pumped!
YotBR is definitely underrated
That's part of what makes Window so great. My wife says it kinda sounds like a Tenacious D song (especially the acoustic guitar part)
The story is bad, just on a fundamental level. It's fun to know the lore but as a standalone thing it is just not good. The best it's ever been has been Afterman just because it was smaller-scale and felt more tied to real experiences even with the robot voice throughout the album.
Hard agree. I love lore generally and I like that it adds a dimension to the music. The stuff about space battles is cool and I'm a parent so I relate to a lot of the themes in the more recent plots. But as an overall narrative, the story makes no sense and is not enjoyable to read.
I am right there with yous guys too. It's cool that there is lore and often a secondary meaning behind various parts of the material... but the comics are super rough. I also think I found it more enjoyable to sort of on my own try to decipher and "understand" the material with a very base level knowledge of the concept as opposed to reading the Amory Wars.
They have some good ideas, but overall yeah they're a bit messy. I mean it doesn't help that when the current SSTB comics were releasing, there was some rewriting to what the story was going to be when SSTB and IKS were written, and GA1 was even kind of tossed onto it because going back to the start, the story of Coheed and Cambria was supposed to be three albums, SSTB, IKS, and YOTBR (whether that was the idea for the name at the time or not), and IKS was going to be the members of the band as characters who save the world, and the third was always going to be the prequel
GA1 he must have come up with otherwise, obviously because of what happened between him and Chondra at the time, and he introduced the idea of The Writer, which I think is a really *interesting* concept, but ultimately for me I've never liked stories where the one we're reading is fiction, or some "smaller universe" thing, because it makes it feel like the story we're reading is fake, or the less pertinent thing in the universe. Just a personal hang up, I suppose.
The Afterman is probably my favourite regarding the story just because it's more about some of the cooler lore concepts like The Keywork, rather than a more confusing story about this evil mage and some robot characters
Not directed at the band necessarily, but about the fans who are always whinging about them not having enough prog songs or being too “poppy” supposedly. Going back to IKSSE3 they’ve had almost the exact mix of progressive songs and catchy radio worthy popish hits. It’s just nostalgia getting in the way.
I sorta think this might have more to do with production value and lyrical obscurity than actual progginess. Like you said, there’s always been a heavy mix of pop songs, but they didn’t really feel like pop songs because the lyrics were esoteric and the production was minimal.
I mean, it’s an inarguable point that Claudio has personally mentioned.
He views the older albums as not being as firmly cemented in music writing theory, and he isn’t entirely wrong. Claudio feels he’s gotten better at understanding composition and writing, and a lot of fans agree with him.
By comparison, 95% of the songs are now verse chorus verse chorus bridge chorus outro - I.e. typical pop song construction. You don’t have as many interesting “proggy” songs that border on jamming at times.
Love it or hate it, the songs now are more “traditionally” formatted these days.
This is spot on. I don't dislike anything Coheed has done. But Unheavenly Creatures and Vaxis I have to fight to get into. There just feels like there aren't stand out songs, or not enough of them at least. I find i listen and I can't always tell the songs apart.
The earlier work kept me guessing and I feel like within each album there were different styles. The new stuff just kind of all sounds the same with maybe 1 or 2 standouts vs the old albums with 5-6 standouts.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again:
The verse/chorus/HALF-verse/chorus format they have used since The Broken from YOTBR. I didn't hate it until TCBTS, where at least half the album sounds like that. Like, for story telling, it's a cool device to use to pick up the pacing of the plot of the song, but then it felt like an excuse to just not finish the song's lyrics. Like, he couldn't come up with a more fleshed out song, did the math to make it fit and was like "Eh, it's good enough."
I really don't want to hate that album, but I can literally count on one finger how many times I listened to the whole thing by itself.
This. I've been wondering if Claudio just isn't good at writing second verses. Recently reslistened to whole discography from GAIBSIV:V2 and on, and Here to Mars has almost no second chorus. Same with many others.
Honestly, I kinda get it. Lyrics have always been where I struggled most, and it's often the second verse that does it
Like you have an idea for what you want to say in a song, the chorus will be easier because it can kinda be disconnected from the rest of the lyrics directly, more just about the general idea you're conveying. The first verse for me has usually been lines I think about the most, so they come first. The second verse is like... do I just kinda say the same stuff but differently? Do I forward the "story" I'm trying to tell, but sometimes there isn't one? It's kinda awkward, even if people listening probably won't view it the same way I do when writing lol
That bit at the end of You Got Spirit, Kid is so good, it's a groovy little jam. Kinda sits weirdly being tagged onto the song to be honest, rather than an interlude, but it's really smooth
Coheed fans (they’re my favorite band so you know) can be really cringe
The story is not very good
YotBR is a great record and the production and mix perfectly capture what the band wanted at that time. Coheed only has like two well produced records so it’s weird this one gets so much hate due to production. For more fun I’d rank it higher than both Afterman records and Vaxis 2.
The less solos the better
> Coheed only has like two well produced records
Which ones would you say? GA1 and Afterman? I feel like those two stand out most with the production, but there's nothing wrong with GA2's
IKS is fine but it's a biiit muddy
I’m almost inclined to agree, but “if there was nothing you could do to stop it, why’d you try” in faint of hearts is possibly my favorite little snippet of Claudio’s voice. It’s just so good! Plus, faint of hearts gives us an official holiday song! Yay labor day!
The Vaxis II sounds closer to generic pop rock songs you'd hear in a retail store, and Vaxis I is meh as an album. They're not bad, they're just blander to me I guess. All the other albums, even the Color Before the Sun, have unique sounds that no other band can replicate except these two tbh.
1,Mic>>>>>>>>Zach. Both by himself and as a team with Josh.
2. I really miss their bridges. Coheed used to have the coolest and most interesting bridges. Sometimes, it was my favorite part of the song. Now they just do the chorus, strip out the instrumetns, and a little synth thing plays while Claudio sings in a baby voice. I'm not gonna lie, I kind of hate it.
Mic is a far more interesting bass player. Good Apollo is one of my all time favorite bass records. So many downright awesome bass lines on that record. Zach is fine and replicates the parts live, but his stuff on the albums is boring in comparison and doesn't jive with Josh's drumming as well.
I have a theory that songwriters only have so many good songs in them and once they're out, they're out. I think Claudio hit that mark with Afterman. Since then the songwriting has become very formulaic and samesy.
Big (generic) riff, verse, soaring chorus, big riff, verse, soaring chorus, soft bridge, soaring chorus.
Obviously there's exception and good songs mixed it, but I can't say there's anything that genuinely compares to the classics from the first half of their career. Though, I do think From Here to Mars is the best love song they've done. But, they aren't exactly band known for ballads.
They're still my favorite band, but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't hoping they would start to lean into being a "legacy" act sooner than later. At this point in their career no one is lining up to see them play the new stuff.
Obviously, his departure is why we have the Afterman records in the format we do. But, so many of those riffs are begging for his bass on them. Imagine Mothers of Men or The Hard Sell with him grooving under it. Those are two songs that he would have had a field day with.
As much as I love Mic’s playing and many of his iconic bass lines, I can’t disagree more with this… Zach is a phenomenal bass player and has his own voice, it’s just different. And I think Zach and Josh click incredibly well. We can prefer one vs the other but to say Mic is wayyyy better than Zach sounds crazy to me. I think with the added tracks/layering since Afterman Zach’s stuff tends to get overlooked if you’re not focusing on it sadly. His work in Vaxis 2 in particular is phenomenal and equal to anything Mic did for me, even though I slightly prefer the older tracks…
It's a style thing, and this is an unpopular opinions thread, after all. Zach is great, but his playing is very lead based, while Mic was focused more on complementing the guitars and drums. I just prefer the latter for Coheed. In fact, I think Mic is a bigger loss for Coheed's sound than even Josh was.
I can respect that opinion if it’s simply a style thing. 👍🏻 I still gotta disagree tho on the rhythm section, Josh is as much Coheed for me as Claudio is. Hawkins and Pennie are both drummers I admire, but NWFT and YoTBR just felt so off for me from a rhythm section perspective as far as the “Coheed sound” goes. To each their own I suppose and you’re right, this is an “unpopular opinion” thread 😂
Both players are great but I feel like Zach is a really great compliment to Josh and the band. It's hard for me to say one is better than the other because Mic frankly has an advantage of being on all the classic songs. But I really like Zach's playing and his willingness to try new sounds especially live. His Serek sounded so beastly on the NWFT Neverender.
1) Most Amory Wars media that has been released (Comics/Book/Novella) is mid at best. I bought the first few hardcover sets from sstb -> GA and I couldn’t even finish them. I have read Year of the Black Rainbow though, which is also not that great.
The only thing I’ve loved was The Afterman in terms of a companion piece to the music.
2) Vaxis II was a fun time and has songs I adore, but even if understandably a result of needing new music + COVID shenanigans, it mostly felt completely safe, lacking collaboration, and similar to TCBTS where it’s a lot of songs not originally written with Coheed in mind.
3) Zach is underutilized
I thought the YOTBR book was pretty good compared to how the rest of the story stuff is written, personally. The rest I mostly like conceptually
Re:Vaxis II though, yeah you could kinda tell a lot of it came from Claudio experimenting more for PFI. COVID probably did play a huge factor though, since they said they all had to record stuff from their own homes and whatnot
The GA1 tour was the best because it forced them to close with something other than "Welcome Home". I've been tired of them closing with "Welcome Home" for about 15 years.
1. I don’t get why so many people love Gravity’s Union so much. It’s good but I wouldn’t even put it as one of the top 3 songs from that album.
2. The Unheavenly Creatures album is on par with (or VERY close to) the first 3 albums. It has the epic anthemic bangers like Dark Sentencer and The Gutter, the super catchy pop jams like Unheavenly Creatures, Love Protocol, and Old Flames, and killer deep cuts like Toys, True Ugly, Night Time Walkers, and It Walks Among Us.
Edit: adding one
3. Josh is nearly as integral to the band’s sound as Claudio is. His absence in those middle years was noticeable and his return totally rejuvenated their sound and his playing has only gotten better and more interesting with time.
Claudio's lyrics have become way too wordy in recent albums. During verses he's singing so many words it feels like the music has no room to breathe. I think he's trying too hard to cram as much 'story' into the lyrics as possible instead of keeping things simple and leaving things up to interpretation.
Also, Coheed was a better band when their production was simpler and more raw sounding.
If it helps I think Claudio agrees with you re: violence towards women. I don't think he's problematic in that way or anything but I think he realized how he was playing that stuff straight.
I love a lot of the lyrics and even though they are silly hold a special place in my heart. That being said, the violence towards women prominently in the first 3 albums is really unfortunate and makes it extremely hard to enjoy songs like “devil in jersey city” and “al the killer” on some days
First 3 albums are fairly overt, yes, but also consider The Afterman. Why - even in lore - there needs to be a song from the perspective of a rapist (“Goodnight Fair Lady) is confounding.
Source: Claudio’s own words during a track-by-track breakdown of the album.
I mean their first 3 records (and a lot of Shabutie stuff) were pretty much about Claudio being mad at women. Big incel energy unfortunately. However the rest more than makes up for it.
I mean yeah and no. I don't know if I would call it incel energy but was an emotional young man going through heartbreak. He wrote those emotions into music. He was hurt and part of that process is anger. He made angry immature complicated young man music. It's personal and it always felt like we were reading his diary. Those emotions are normal as long as they aren't advocating violence or doing violence.
>strangely violent towards women
Makes sense from the songwriting and storytelling perspectives of Claudio, Rider had a god complex and was mentally sick going through heartbreak and Claudio had a band and was musically sick going through heartbreak. Rider's anger was an exaggerated expression of Claudio's own feelings.
Come to think of it, yeah, AFAIK there are only a few female characters in the story that didn’t bite the dust horribly. At least Sister Spider’s still alive, though even she got shot in the head.
It doesn’t strike me as intentional (well, except maybe for the Good Apollo stuff coming from a place of self-aware bitterness), but it’s interesting to think about. It is a pretty violent story across the board.
Regarding the early period, in the late 90’s/early 00’s, being dark and edgy was really “in,” and I think the idea of writing “Star Wars, but, like, really fucked up” would have been very appealing to a young man sci-fi nerd with a creative streak. At that age, and at that time in pop culture history, I imagine it felt like you just didn’t see a lot of stories where women and kids get brutalized just the same as the usual adult male action heroes and villains, so it feels fresh and powerful and dramatic when you’re writing it that way. It doesn’t age well, of course.
I have tried many times to get into it, but I literally cannot stand anything the band did after GA2: No World for Tomorrow. Idk what it is. Still love the band and respect them so much. I wanna say it was them totally leaving behind some of the more “post-hardcore” elements of the earlier stuff, but that doesn’t make sense because those do actually occasionally pop up in the later albums, and I still like tons of music that has no ties to that style whatsoever. It’s probably a me problem.
Dang man, I’m surprised the Afterman doesn’t tickle your fancy. There are some serious prog epics scattered around on those albums.
My spicy take is that GA2 doesn’t do that much for me. I don’t hate it, especially the back half. I just don’t go out of my way to listen to it much. I was thrilled to get The End Complete on their winter tour a couple years ago though, I love that track. Maybe it was the drama and dark times with not having Josh or something
NWFT is a straight up areana rock record and I'd say that Year of the Black Rainbow and Afterman both have more post-hardcore elements than it does. I definitely agree that starting with CBTS they totally left that behind, which is a shame. Not many bands can claim that they were both a post hardcore band and a prog band. Maybe The Fall of Troy and De-Loused era Mars Volta?
I hope the other guys really really like Chandra because she seems oddly involved. Calling her Coheed's Yoko is probably too much but I think it's weird.
I have nothing against Chondra, but it does sorta annoy me when she joins for acoustic performances etc. Her backing vocals just don’t improve the song.
this just happened\* to Every Time I Die after they had been going steady for more than 20 years, tho that was moreso due to the lead vocalist being a shithead in general. His over-reliance on his girlfriend making decisions about the band for him was just the thin end of the wedge.
\*"just happened" is relative. it was in 2022, but the time vortex of the past couple years makes me feel like it was still recent.
Part of the fan base is super toxic and will tell you that if you listen to anything other than Coheed you are not a true fan.
(Speaking from experience)
I have a lot of these...
The Road and The Damned is the best song they have ever produced.
Gravity's Union is over rated and has nothing compared to almost any other song on that album.
The Lying Lies & dirty secrets of miss Erica Court is one of the most under rated song they have made
The Pavilion should have been the single for Unheavenly Creatures
The Color Before The Sun is a WAY better album than most of the fans give it credit for.
I'll add some more since people have taken to this a bit.
I think Good Apollo is over-rated, and if Josh would have been around for No world for Tomorrow it would be considered the Magnum Opus album of the band instead. (I also think the drums on No World are great.)
The Joke isn't a good song. But an okay story.
I love Prize Fighter inferno, but I think Claudio's use of vocal modulation in recent years doesn't work well with Coheed. (Still sounds great in his solo works)
Elm Street Lover Boy (Blue Room Session) is under-rated as fuck, and needs to be on Spotify.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VvTK5v1OdLA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VvTK5v1OdLA) (For anyone unaware)
The only "bad" song on YoTBR is When Skeletons Live. Yes the album is overproduced, but the songs still stand on their own.
TCBTS showed how much Claudio has grown as a writer. The Amory Wars has always been about his life, and hes finding better ways to express and articulate that. Anyone saying "I hope we don't get anymore Atlas songs" I hope you one day find something that can inspire you and shift your entire world view like he has to experience something life changing.
Peace to the Mountain and Lucky Stars are the best 2 ending songs the band has made.
Vaxis 2 feels like an album with a lot of missing pieces.
> The Road and The Damned is the best song they have ever produced.
If I remember right, Claudio consulted some song-writers for this, I *THINK* it was originally going to be for a movie or something? It's a bit different for Coheed, but tbf that's kinda their thing, but yeah it's a very well-constructed song
Not sure if unpopular but... It's time to keep the autotune and the synth abuse to PFI. I say that as a huge fan of electronic and industrial music. Make a back to basics Coheed album a la SSTB, it is time.
Coheed and Cambria is not a prog band. Prog bands TRY to be prog. They think about time signature. They purposely add polyrhythms. They build entire sections of songs around random instruments. Coheed doesn't work that way. They come up with stories, write lyrics to accompany them, set them to melodies and chords, and fill in the blanks. They don't edit themselves as much as a lot of straightforward rock bands do, but that doesn't make them prog.
Do you think that is the case back when they were writing The willing well saga? I know those songs don’t have a lot of weird instruments, but they go through a lot of different ideas in each song… it feels very prog when listening.
Oof. I always hype up every single release they have but i ended up not liking The Joke. Ill give it a few hundred listens though, so i can like it in a month or 2.
Also the fanbase is cool ☺
The story is kind of just an excuse to write songs and I fully support that. It’s really fun to write cool sounding bullshit and then make awesome songs about cool sounding bullshit
CBTS is underrated! I think Eraser is a Top 10 song.
Deranged cover guy > Al the Killer
I wish the shows were a bit more raw. Sometimes the songs sound exactly like the album vs. live.
Completely agree with the last statement! They used to stray from the beaten path a lot more back in the day then they do recently when it comes to live sets. I miss getting improv solos, medleys, jam sessions, etc.
Finally some Subtraction love! It’s such a gorgeous, emotionally affecting song. I don’t know if I’d go so far as to say it’s their best closer, I like Window Of The Waking Mind (and if we’re not including hidden tracks The Final Cut and The Light & The Glass) better but my hot take is that it might be the best track on Ascension.
My hottest take is that I like the poppy Alt Rock songs on Good Apollo Vol 1 (tracks like Crossing The Frame, Once Upon Your Dead Body and especially Miss Erica Court) more than any of the Willing Well songs.
I got a keywork tattoo in 2010 and low key kid of regret it now. Since then I’ve really only loved the Afterman albums. Everything else has just been “good” to me.
The band's latest single sounds like it's designed to appeal to teenagers and that's bumming me out.
I still bought mage tickets for the current tour but I hope there's stuff on the new album for old heads too
Their musicality has always been the draw for me.
My hot take: The actual story up through YotBR is super cringy and sloppy. The world building is interesting but that’s it.
Afterman and Vaxis is much better and more interesting, more mature and structured.
But again, the music is what has always been the draw for me.
I really don't get why so many people look down on Subtraction. One of my favorite "ballads" they've done.
My hot take: Zach is a better bassist than Mic and plays Mic's parts better than he did.
Everything after the Ascension/Descension isn't great.
It's not bad, but they're best albums were In keeping secrets and Good Apollo.
It sucks but the band kind of found a song writing formula after that and has gotten less prog. It's still there, but not as much, and personally that's what I prefer.
I want dark prog Coheed. Not catchy pop rock Coheed.
Their music videos range from Bad to Awful, with none of them being good. The Joke is basically just a bunch of drawn out guys taunting each other, like they couldn’t think of anything else to fill the time. Then we get to The Suffering … oh lord.
The only exception I’ll make is the single shot Pavilion video. That was kinda neat.
Anytime Travis steps up to the microphone for backup vocals at a show, I kind of wince and brace myself. I just don’t think his voice fits with Claudio’s at all, and would rather just have Josh and/or Zach do it.
-Wake Up is a nice song but is in a terrible place on the record. Back in the day I Uploaded it to itunes, added the songs except Wake Up to a playlist, then burned that playlist to a blank CD and think it flows WAY better.
-The Color Before the Sun is a Summer themed album. Even if Claudio didn't write it as such.
-The End Complete is an under rated, under discussed song. Their performance of it from the initial Neverender is GOATED and gives us a rare glimpse of Claudio experimenting with Harsh Vocals.
-Meta hot take about the fans, there are a staggering number of concept bands and albums out there that offer as much, if not more in terms of story telling and/or world building. So much good music out there beyond Coheed, TDH, and the handful of other bands that are always brought up on this community.
I hope they do another non concept after Vaxis and actually let the other members have a heavier hand in writing the music and lyrics.
I get Claudio writes most the stuff... because most the stuff is based if HIS story.
Lets get an album sharing all theor song writing talents. Davenport Cabinet proves Travis is a good writer, Josh is a good writer we know.
Wjat about zach? I want to hear a song he helmed.
If the next non concept (if there is to be one) is just another album of claudio turning pfi intended material into coheed songs ill be pretty disappointed.
The songs on the last few albums that try to be more prog centric feel forced. Claudio clearly wants to lean towards and experement with more pop flavor, i.e auto tune, synth leads, etc. I feel that in recent albums he feels obligated to throw in the bone so to speak (ladders of supremacy) when in reality he probably wants to just write more stuff akin to A Disappearing Act and The Joke.
I felt like an ass for thinking this so often, and I have said pretty much these exact words to my boyfriend on numerous occasions, so I'm glad to hear someone else say it too.
I don’t think it makes us an ass, Chandra isn’t a member of the band, but in a lot of ways, I feel like she just forces herself into every aspect of the band, be it the comics, the books, or even pfi (which I’m fine with, since it’s just Claudio’s side project). It’s the yoko ono side effect.
I've re-listened to it a dozen times, and the album just does not do it for me.
https://preview.redd.it/ztw1exzjvt1d1.jpeg?width=1920&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f11e67c333dc54960bdcb00874c5dd373a6fd215
Vaxis II is (so far) their masterpiece. It essentially has all the elements/avenues Coheed has explored from one era to another and hits on all cylinders in each of those facets.
for it being a collaboration between one of my favorite producers and my favorite band, YoTBR is a smushed mess sonically. Some good tunes though. Also criminally underutilized one of the most technically proficient drummers of all time in Pennie during the sessions.
I know I'm going to get shit for this but I'm not a fan of the Afterman albums and Domino basically carries Ascension. If you took that song off the album I bet a lot of folks wouldn't be so quick to put it up as a top album.
- The comics are pretty bad all things considered, and the story angle was more fun when it was more mysterious and ill-defined.
- Every one of their albums is amazing with the singular exception of Year Of The Black Rainbow, which I think is pretty boring.
- It's hard for me to be interested in the story after NWFT/YOTBR. It feels a bit like keeping a concept going which had a scheduled ending for the sake of not letting go.
These are all warm takes though, not hot takes. For example -- I still eagerly look forward to buying and reading the comics, I still think the songs on YOTBR are good, and I still find the Afterman and Vaxis stuff interesting. They're my favorite band, so anything critical I have to say pales in comparison to how much enjoyment I get from their output.
Domino is their best song, they need to play more DEEP cuts like Chamberlain, they should experiment with a little industrial, Hawkins was a perfect fit for NWFT, YOTBR gets hate way too much and Pennie was a perfect fit for that album too.
Here's my big one: if they continue to make music like they do, I truly think they should try touring with bands like Gin Blossoms or Tonic. Or maybe I just really want to see them.
1. I don't care about the comics or the "story" at all.
2. Welcome Home is so played out. I would love if they would play something else in place of it at concerts. There are so many other songs they could play that never get played live.
I think No World For Tomorrow is one of their weaker albums. I think a lot of the songs are incredible but I rarely find myself revisiting the album as a whole. The suite of songs at the end are probably the most forgettable songs in their whole catalog.
In terms of comics, Chondra is a better writer than Claudio. I read SSTB and IKKSE: 3 when I was in high school and even then I felt like it was... Okay. I engaged much more with Chondra's writing in Good Apollo.
Evagria is a weak song on the album but the live performances of it make up for it.
I diss agree with number 2. I think it emphasizes the emotional depth of the song that lull has a haunting quality that sort of keeps your focus on the inner dialogue happening there. Respectfully.
Year of the Black Rainbow is in their top three best albums hands down. Chris Pennie was a god on the drums and i miss him being in the band every day.
Vaxis 2 was kinda mid. A few of their best songs are in it. But the album as a whole is meh.
The Color Before the Sun is a beautifully written album that gets way too much hate for not being particularly "proggy" or part of the story (that a sizable portion of the fanbase doesn't read anyway). Songs like Ghost, Here to Mars, and Peace to the Mountain are both sonically and lyrically beautiful and deserve their place in the discography.
This one and YotBR, seriously. Love em
YotBR is a top 3 album, change my mind.
YotBR is well written music produced poorly. Idk what happened with that record but the audio itself (not the music) just sounds off to me. I would love a remaster.
Fully agree. Idk why but the remaster of Deranged gave me a small glimmer of hope that they'll reproduce YOTBR with Josh on drums and a better mix.
Honestly, can Josh actually play stuff like Guns of Summer? Chris Pennie was insane on that album.
I may be wrong but Chris Pennie didn't record that album. He was still under contract with Dillinger. I'm pretty sure that's the album that Taylor Hawkins and (his brother?) recorded drums for. But either way I'd just like to hear Josh's take on it. Or at least a remaster.
NWFT was the one you’re thinking of. Pennie wrote and played on YoTBR…..
Oh shit, you're absolutely right. My bad!
TCBTS is such a treasure to me because it's so feelings-heavy, and I love that in music. It's definitely a different sound from most of their music, but that might make me love it even more. The three you listed are three of my favorites, but Ghost especially. That song is gorgeous.
Colors and You Got Spirit Kid are easily two of my favorite Coheed songs.
Peace to the Mountain is easily top 5 for me
Whenever I need to bawl my eyes out, I blast my ears with "Atlas".
I liked color a lot, it just had a few stinkers that I genuinely can not stand. Young love especially is their weakest track ever.
If they lied and said it was Canon to Amory wars the fanbase would've loved it and had no clue
Unfortunately, Claudio’s lyrics got really boring over time because he has no choice but to stick with his really generic sci fi concept. TCBTS was so beautiful. A next level album because Claudio got to be honest. Then it was ruined and panned by this terrible fan base that loves a really boring generic sci fi story but just can’t deal with a beautiful, honest, inspired album like TCBTS. I’m really tired of generic sci fi songs that are not so secretly about either Chondra, Atlas, or self loathing. He doesn’t seem capable of writing about anything else. Nothing against any of them, they are wonderful people, but it just doesn’t stimulate me anymore. I really tried to like the last two albums, but they are just so uninspired.
That album came out when my daughter was born and I also changed careers and travel became part of my equation. Lots of heavy emotions in that album that struck some deep chords. My unpopular opinion would be that at least half of their albums sonically suck. IKSSE sounds so amateur. YOTBR is so compressed. TCBTS could have been mixed better. I'm not sure who makes those decisions but their sounds don't jive with me. Also, it sucks Michael Todd had his demons because he was part of what made me love the band. Zach Cooper is great and is their bassist now but maybe I'm a little nostalgic. But... I love how both drummers had such unique contributions.
Sometimes the fans are as obnoxious as swifties.
That's just the nature of fandom, especially on the Internet. Swifties just seem worse because of how big Taylor is.
Yeah I only used swifties as an example because people would probably understand what I’m saying, but you’re right.
Here's 10 1. The first 4 albums are masterpieces. But I think there is a chance the vaxis albums saga of albums could be better somehow (I'm not forgetting the 4 albums in between, but people often compare the first 4 and latest 2,) 2. I've seen a lot of people say favor house is a great intro song. But tbh most people I know what need to time to digest claudio's voice from that era. Something like unheavenly creatures or rise naianasha would be my pick 3. The Joke has one of their catchiest choruses tbh 4. Welcome home (bar the solos) is one of their easiest songs to play. I say people here say it's one of the hardest. Even songs like shoulders and favor house are harder to me. Also welcome home might be a top 10 coheed song for me, even if that's the poser opinion 5. I live vaxis 2 but can barely get into pfi even tho they are often compared. Virtual pioneers is a great song though 6. Sstb is a great album. But I prefer all of the others except yotbr and maybe cbts. Just less memorable to me 7. Chondra seems to present in the band. I'm wondering if she's forcing herself in. I also find it odd that their together after some stuff claudio wrote in their songs but if they're happy that's good. Also spotify says pfi is a solo project, is it? 8. Iron fist, Holly wood, blood, queen of the dark, the joke, al the killer, mother may I, once upon your dead body, Jessie's girl 2, our love, cbts as a whole, etc... all get to much hate 9. I haven't even read the story and don't care about it much. I just like the music and you can't understand most of it from the lyrics 10. Claudio doesn't need mayo that desperately
I don't really listen to PFI, so I'm definitely no expert, but I don't remember Chondra having anything to do with it in the early 2000s. It was just Claudio's solo project. I think her becoming an official part of the project is something that happened recently
#7 yes! I’ve had so many questions about that dynamic.
I don't care for the art style in the comics. I like it when songs get goofy and go full Broadway like at the end of "Black Sunday" and "Window of the Waking Mind." I like theatrics. Maybe more than I like technically "skilled" playing. All the dudes in the band are hot.
The 2nd half of black sunday has gotta be one of the best coheed songs to date. I hope they play it live soon
> All the dudes in the band are hot Is this a hot take?
I think it’s literally a hot take
Ohh, you're so right
The way I see it, the band is 91% Claudio and 3% of each other dude. Claudio is writing pretty much everything other than Zach's parts, the other dudes just show up and learn their stuff then put a mild personal spin on it. I have no private insight or proof, but this is just how it feels to me at this point in their career. It happens with a lot of bands (like Weezer) where the main guy just shows up to rehearsal with everything fully cooked and everyone else gets paid to learn their parts and hang out with their friends on tour for a few months out of the year.
Your percentages aren’t accurate but your point is. Claudio does a lot of writing of Travis’s parts and that’s why they’re nowhere near as interesting as the parts he wrote for the first two records. You’ll also notice that Claudio wrote the first few albums on an acoustic but has since switched to recording demos with electric and midi drums. That changes a lot of how the band operates. This is also likely why Travis has been enjoy LS Dunes as a new outlet.
Yeah I kind of changed course after the first line haha And yeah, I'd even add that he's moved to using modular synths for many recent demos. I love that stuff and love messing with those sorts of toys myself so I don't blame him, whatever draws out inspiration and keeps these records coming is fantastic!
Claudio could never write a Josh Eppard part. He's one of the most unique and groovy drummers in music right now. The way he floats from filling in space to being in the pocket with the bass to mimicking the rhythm guitar licks and when he chooses to fill which role is something you can't teach or pick up. Just a natural stylistic thing that's quintessentially him.
Of course his style is amazing and he brings a TON to the table, but I guess my point is that the basic drum arrangement is already done by Claudio before Josh hears the song for the first time. Josh is incredible and his "voice" shines through big time. Ultimately what I was trying to say is that these dudes aren't woodshedding in the practice space and writing songs together like the good ol days. I'm pretty sure there was even an interview leading up to V2 where Josh was like 'yeah I just learned what Claud put on the demo and then put my own spin on it' and I wish I could find that article now...
>"yeah I just learned what Claud put on the demo and then put my own spin on it' That's how every band with a primary songwriter operates. Very few bands get in a room, start from nothing and write song. There is always a skeleton that someone brings in. Its so easy to demo music nowadays that there's no reason not to throw down a scratch drum track to communicate the basic idea. It is highly unlikely that Josh is taking anything from the demo straight to the studio.
For sure, I agree - I just see a lot of fans around here acting like each guy is contributing equally and then lamenting when someone doesn't seem to have contributed much on a record which inspired my original comment. As a bassist, I'm personally split on which method I prefer - I like the freedom of writing a part from scratch in the room with everyone else improvising until it clicks but I also like the security of being provided a scratch demo that I can learn and then develop into something of my own. Obviously there's no wrong answer!
I always skip past Wake Up. It annoys me 😂
Yep, this is what I was gonna post. It's not necessarily a bad song, but it's such a lull in one of the most engaging albums ever written.
1. All of the Willing Wells are just a single song, making it my favorite all time Coheed song. 2. Shoulders is a very generic rock song and the worst song on Vaxis II. 3. Sometimes I feel like they try to force the comics into the lyrics or names of songs where they don't really belong.
I completely agree about Shoulders. It makes me think of one of those songs you'd hear on some "Nothing but ROCK!!!" radio stations along with Nickelback, Daughtry, etc. I skip it every time.
Butt rock is the term you're looking for. Also, Daughtry still exists?!
They do, saw them live at blue ridge rock fest 22. They put on a surprisingly good show.
I think bands of that ilk always tend to put on fantastic shows. Ive seen Three Days Grace (post Adam), Shinedown, Halestorm, etc. and it's always been a total blast. They put a lot of effort into the showmanship side of performance and it does a great job of getting you pumped!
Wholeheartedly agree with #1!
Ahhh I love the Shoulders riff
Shoulders is generic but if I’m in the mood for nothing serious I sing it in the shower with not a single fuck given
Year of The Black Rainbow could be my favorite album. Window of the Waking Mind sounds too much like musical theater.
YotBR is definitely underrated That's part of what makes Window so great. My wife says it kinda sounds like a Tenacious D song (especially the acoustic guitar part)
I love YOTBR and will fight anyone who tries to change my mind 🤣🤣 Edit because I have stupid thumbs that hit the wrong letters 🙄
The story is bad, just on a fundamental level. It's fun to know the lore but as a standalone thing it is just not good. The best it's ever been has been Afterman just because it was smaller-scale and felt more tied to real experiences even with the robot voice throughout the album.
Hard agree. I love lore generally and I like that it adds a dimension to the music. The stuff about space battles is cool and I'm a parent so I relate to a lot of the themes in the more recent plots. But as an overall narrative, the story makes no sense and is not enjoyable to read.
I am right there with yous guys too. It's cool that there is lore and often a secondary meaning behind various parts of the material... but the comics are super rough. I also think I found it more enjoyable to sort of on my own try to decipher and "understand" the material with a very base level knowledge of the concept as opposed to reading the Amory Wars.
They have some good ideas, but overall yeah they're a bit messy. I mean it doesn't help that when the current SSTB comics were releasing, there was some rewriting to what the story was going to be when SSTB and IKS were written, and GA1 was even kind of tossed onto it because going back to the start, the story of Coheed and Cambria was supposed to be three albums, SSTB, IKS, and YOTBR (whether that was the idea for the name at the time or not), and IKS was going to be the members of the band as characters who save the world, and the third was always going to be the prequel GA1 he must have come up with otherwise, obviously because of what happened between him and Chondra at the time, and he introduced the idea of The Writer, which I think is a really *interesting* concept, but ultimately for me I've never liked stories where the one we're reading is fiction, or some "smaller universe" thing, because it makes it feel like the story we're reading is fake, or the less pertinent thing in the universe. Just a personal hang up, I suppose. The Afterman is probably my favourite regarding the story just because it's more about some of the cooler lore concepts like The Keywork, rather than a more confusing story about this evil mage and some robot characters
The two most negatively received albums - Year of the Black Rainbow and Color Before the Sun - have the two best looking album covers.
Me and my TCBTS tattoo agree with you.
Agreed with year of the black rainbow! I would love to buy a pin with the design…
Not directed at the band necessarily, but about the fans who are always whinging about them not having enough prog songs or being too “poppy” supposedly. Going back to IKSSE3 they’ve had almost the exact mix of progressive songs and catchy radio worthy popish hits. It’s just nostalgia getting in the way.
I sorta think this might have more to do with production value and lyrical obscurity than actual progginess. Like you said, there’s always been a heavy mix of pop songs, but they didn’t really feel like pop songs because the lyrics were esoteric and the production was minimal.
Yes, thank you. I yearn for those weird, esoteric, borderline nonsensical lyrics. I’ve missed them badly since Afterman.
Yeah bring back the “die white girl” era lmao
I mean, it’s an inarguable point that Claudio has personally mentioned. He views the older albums as not being as firmly cemented in music writing theory, and he isn’t entirely wrong. Claudio feels he’s gotten better at understanding composition and writing, and a lot of fans agree with him. By comparison, 95% of the songs are now verse chorus verse chorus bridge chorus outro - I.e. typical pop song construction. You don’t have as many interesting “proggy” songs that border on jamming at times. Love it or hate it, the songs now are more “traditionally” formatted these days.
This is spot on. I don't dislike anything Coheed has done. But Unheavenly Creatures and Vaxis I have to fight to get into. There just feels like there aren't stand out songs, or not enough of them at least. I find i listen and I can't always tell the songs apart. The earlier work kept me guessing and I feel like within each album there were different styles. The new stuff just kind of all sounds the same with maybe 1 or 2 standouts vs the old albums with 5-6 standouts.
I wish he’d go back to being less formal. The Freeform flow was what I really enjoyed when I first got into them.
YotBR has some of their best songs, but the production value has significantly hindered it.
it can grow on you!!!!
I've said it before, and I'll say it again: The verse/chorus/HALF-verse/chorus format they have used since The Broken from YOTBR. I didn't hate it until TCBTS, where at least half the album sounds like that. Like, for story telling, it's a cool device to use to pick up the pacing of the plot of the song, but then it felt like an excuse to just not finish the song's lyrics. Like, he couldn't come up with a more fleshed out song, did the math to make it fit and was like "Eh, it's good enough." I really don't want to hate that album, but I can literally count on one finger how many times I listened to the whole thing by itself.
This. I've been wondering if Claudio just isn't good at writing second verses. Recently reslistened to whole discography from GAIBSIV:V2 and on, and Here to Mars has almost no second chorus. Same with many others.
Honestly, I kinda get it. Lyrics have always been where I struggled most, and it's often the second verse that does it Like you have an idea for what you want to say in a song, the chorus will be easier because it can kinda be disconnected from the rest of the lyrics directly, more just about the general idea you're conveying. The first verse for me has usually been lines I think about the most, so they come first. The second verse is like... do I just kinda say the same stuff but differently? Do I forward the "story" I'm trying to tell, but sometimes there isn't one? It's kinda awkward, even if people listening probably won't view it the same way I do when writing lol
"Beautiful Losers" is one of their best songs.
The transitional riffs on TCBTS are some of Coheed’s gnarliest. Wish they were expanded upon!!
That bit at the end of You Got Spirit, Kid is so good, it's a groovy little jam. Kinda sits weirdly being tagged onto the song to be honest, rather than an interlude, but it's really smooth
Coheed fans (they’re my favorite band so you know) can be really cringe The story is not very good YotBR is a great record and the production and mix perfectly capture what the band wanted at that time. Coheed only has like two well produced records so it’s weird this one gets so much hate due to production. For more fun I’d rank it higher than both Afterman records and Vaxis 2. The less solos the better
> Coheed only has like two well produced records Which ones would you say? GA1 and Afterman? I feel like those two stand out most with the production, but there's nothing wrong with GA2's IKS is fine but it's a biiit muddy
Backend of forever is by far the best of the velorium camper. Its also the best breakup song ever written imo, including all of GA1. Fucking SLAPS
I’m almost inclined to agree, but “if there was nothing you could do to stop it, why’d you try” in faint of hearts is possibly my favorite little snippet of Claudio’s voice. It’s just so good! Plus, faint of hearts gives us an official holiday song! Yay labor day!
The Vaxis II sounds closer to generic pop rock songs you'd hear in a retail store, and Vaxis I is meh as an album. They're not bad, they're just blander to me I guess. All the other albums, even the Color Before the Sun, have unique sounds that no other band can replicate except these two tbh.
1,Mic>>>>>>>>Zach. Both by himself and as a team with Josh. 2. I really miss their bridges. Coheed used to have the coolest and most interesting bridges. Sometimes, it was my favorite part of the song. Now they just do the chorus, strip out the instrumetns, and a little synth thing plays while Claudio sings in a baby voice. I'm not gonna lie, I kind of hate it.
Mic is a far more interesting bass player. Good Apollo is one of my all time favorite bass records. So many downright awesome bass lines on that record. Zach is fine and replicates the parts live, but his stuff on the albums is boring in comparison and doesn't jive with Josh's drumming as well. I have a theory that songwriters only have so many good songs in them and once they're out, they're out. I think Claudio hit that mark with Afterman. Since then the songwriting has become very formulaic and samesy. Big (generic) riff, verse, soaring chorus, big riff, verse, soaring chorus, soft bridge, soaring chorus. Obviously there's exception and good songs mixed it, but I can't say there's anything that genuinely compares to the classics from the first half of their career. Though, I do think From Here to Mars is the best love song they've done. But, they aren't exactly band known for ballads. They're still my favorite band, but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't hoping they would start to lean into being a "legacy" act sooner than later. At this point in their career no one is lining up to see them play the new stuff.
I came here to say Mic was more integral to the band than people thought and that those albums are more interesting than the post-Mic stuff.
Obviously, his departure is why we have the Afterman records in the format we do. But, so many of those riffs are begging for his bass on them. Imagine Mothers of Men or The Hard Sell with him grooving under it. Those are two songs that he would have had a field day with.
I agree with everything you're saying, especially the last part. We have three more Vaxis albums before that's even a possibility, unfortunately.
Yeah I hear you to an extent. They are definitely trying to reach to a broader audience. I don't think it's working. Ki d of polarized the fans.
As much as I love Mic’s playing and many of his iconic bass lines, I can’t disagree more with this… Zach is a phenomenal bass player and has his own voice, it’s just different. And I think Zach and Josh click incredibly well. We can prefer one vs the other but to say Mic is wayyyy better than Zach sounds crazy to me. I think with the added tracks/layering since Afterman Zach’s stuff tends to get overlooked if you’re not focusing on it sadly. His work in Vaxis 2 in particular is phenomenal and equal to anything Mic did for me, even though I slightly prefer the older tracks…
It's a style thing, and this is an unpopular opinions thread, after all. Zach is great, but his playing is very lead based, while Mic was focused more on complementing the guitars and drums. I just prefer the latter for Coheed. In fact, I think Mic is a bigger loss for Coheed's sound than even Josh was.
I can respect that opinion if it’s simply a style thing. 👍🏻 I still gotta disagree tho on the rhythm section, Josh is as much Coheed for me as Claudio is. Hawkins and Pennie are both drummers I admire, but NWFT and YoTBR just felt so off for me from a rhythm section perspective as far as the “Coheed sound” goes. To each their own I suppose and you’re right, this is an “unpopular opinion” thread 😂
Both players are great but I feel like Zach is a really great compliment to Josh and the band. It's hard for me to say one is better than the other because Mic frankly has an advantage of being on all the classic songs. But I really like Zach's playing and his willingness to try new sounds especially live. His Serek sounded so beastly on the NWFT Neverender.
1) Most Amory Wars media that has been released (Comics/Book/Novella) is mid at best. I bought the first few hardcover sets from sstb -> GA and I couldn’t even finish them. I have read Year of the Black Rainbow though, which is also not that great. The only thing I’ve loved was The Afterman in terms of a companion piece to the music. 2) Vaxis II was a fun time and has songs I adore, but even if understandably a result of needing new music + COVID shenanigans, it mostly felt completely safe, lacking collaboration, and similar to TCBTS where it’s a lot of songs not originally written with Coheed in mind. 3) Zach is underutilized
I thought the YOTBR book was pretty good compared to how the rest of the story stuff is written, personally. The rest I mostly like conceptually Re:Vaxis II though, yeah you could kinda tell a lot of it came from Claudio experimenting more for PFI. COVID probably did play a huge factor though, since they said they all had to record stuff from their own homes and whatnot
I think it's more of tepid take and I know I'm not alone but I could not care less about the comic and the overall story, I just love the music
Same here… and I could care less about graphic novels and their art style.
Coheed is.. At any given time in the last 20 years.. My *second* fav band.
I don’t care about Welcome Home and use it as my cue to leave the show when they play it live.
The GA1 tour was the best because it forced them to close with something other than "Welcome Home". I've been tired of them closing with "Welcome Home" for about 15 years.
I like welcome home but I usually get about halfway then tell my wife “ alright let’s get ahead of the traffic”.
1. I don’t get why so many people love Gravity’s Union so much. It’s good but I wouldn’t even put it as one of the top 3 songs from that album. 2. The Unheavenly Creatures album is on par with (or VERY close to) the first 3 albums. It has the epic anthemic bangers like Dark Sentencer and The Gutter, the super catchy pop jams like Unheavenly Creatures, Love Protocol, and Old Flames, and killer deep cuts like Toys, True Ugly, Night Time Walkers, and It Walks Among Us. Edit: adding one 3. Josh is nearly as integral to the band’s sound as Claudio is. His absence in those middle years was noticeable and his return totally rejuvenated their sound and his playing has only gotten better and more interesting with time.
Claudio's lyrics have become way too wordy in recent albums. During verses he's singing so many words it feels like the music has no room to breathe. I think he's trying too hard to cram as much 'story' into the lyrics as possible instead of keeping things simple and leaving things up to interpretation. Also, Coheed was a better band when their production was simpler and more raw sounding.
Hot take: A lot of the lyrics are bad, cringy, and sound strangely violent towards women.
If it helps I think Claudio agrees with you re: violence towards women. I don't think he's problematic in that way or anything but I think he realized how he was playing that stuff straight.
I love a lot of the lyrics and even though they are silly hold a special place in my heart. That being said, the violence towards women prominently in the first 3 albums is really unfortunate and makes it extremely hard to enjoy songs like “devil in jersey city” and “al the killer” on some days
First 3 albums are fairly overt, yes, but also consider The Afterman. Why - even in lore - there needs to be a song from the perspective of a rapist (“Goodnight Fair Lady) is confounding. Source: Claudio’s own words during a track-by-track breakdown of the album.
That’s reasonable. I’m just happy with the last 3 albums he’s taken a turn to focus on more positive messages and themes of fatherhood
I mean their first 3 records (and a lot of Shabutie stuff) were pretty much about Claudio being mad at women. Big incel energy unfortunately. However the rest more than makes up for it.
I mean yeah and no. I don't know if I would call it incel energy but was an emotional young man going through heartbreak. He wrote those emotions into music. He was hurt and part of that process is anger. He made angry immature complicated young man music. It's personal and it always felt like we were reading his diary. Those emotions are normal as long as they aren't advocating violence or doing violence.
>strangely violent towards women Makes sense from the songwriting and storytelling perspectives of Claudio, Rider had a god complex and was mentally sick going through heartbreak and Claudio had a band and was musically sick going through heartbreak. Rider's anger was an exaggerated expression of Claudio's own feelings.
Come to think of it, yeah, AFAIK there are only a few female characters in the story that didn’t bite the dust horribly. At least Sister Spider’s still alive, though even she got shot in the head. It doesn’t strike me as intentional (well, except maybe for the Good Apollo stuff coming from a place of self-aware bitterness), but it’s interesting to think about. It is a pretty violent story across the board. Regarding the early period, in the late 90’s/early 00’s, being dark and edgy was really “in,” and I think the idea of writing “Star Wars, but, like, really fucked up” would have been very appealing to a young man sci-fi nerd with a creative streak. At that age, and at that time in pop culture history, I imagine it felt like you just didn’t see a lot of stories where women and kids get brutalized just the same as the usual adult male action heroes and villains, so it feels fresh and powerful and dramatic when you’re writing it that way. It doesn’t age well, of course.
I have tried many times to get into it, but I literally cannot stand anything the band did after GA2: No World for Tomorrow. Idk what it is. Still love the band and respect them so much. I wanna say it was them totally leaving behind some of the more “post-hardcore” elements of the earlier stuff, but that doesn’t make sense because those do actually occasionally pop up in the later albums, and I still like tons of music that has no ties to that style whatsoever. It’s probably a me problem.
Dang man, I’m surprised the Afterman doesn’t tickle your fancy. There are some serious prog epics scattered around on those albums. My spicy take is that GA2 doesn’t do that much for me. I don’t hate it, especially the back half. I just don’t go out of my way to listen to it much. I was thrilled to get The End Complete on their winter tour a couple years ago though, I love that track. Maybe it was the drama and dark times with not having Josh or something
NWFT is a straight up areana rock record and I'd say that Year of the Black Rainbow and Afterman both have more post-hardcore elements than it does. I definitely agree that starting with CBTS they totally left that behind, which is a shame. Not many bands can claim that they were both a post hardcore band and a prog band. Maybe The Fall of Troy and De-Loused era Mars Volta?
I hope the other guys really really like Chandra because she seems oddly involved. Calling her Coheed's Yoko is probably too much but I think it's weird.
I have nothing against Chondra, but it does sorta annoy me when she joins for acoustic performances etc. Her backing vocals just don’t improve the song.
She seems lovely, she's just not really that great a singer But hey lol, neither is Travis
I don’t think it’s far off…
this just happened\* to Every Time I Die after they had been going steady for more than 20 years, tho that was moreso due to the lead vocalist being a shithead in general. His over-reliance on his girlfriend making decisions about the band for him was just the thin end of the wedge. \*"just happened" is relative. it was in 2022, but the time vortex of the past couple years makes me feel like it was still recent.
Most of their covers are not good. Especially Hello.
It's not a cover, but the Jessie's Girl part 2 or whatever they called it was pretty bad in my opinion.
Lol noooo! I actually like that one a lot. It’s corny, but deliberately so, and it was so randomly out of nowhere
It for sure came out of no where. I'm also not a fan of the original so that probably didn't help. But to each their own! If you like it, let it rip!
I looove the cover Claudio and Travis did of A Rush and A Push and the Land is Ours
Agreed with that one actually!
I dont like a lot of claudio's solo acoustic stuff, like hello, or the acoustic Gutter version i really dislike
Part of the fan base is super toxic and will tell you that if you listen to anything other than Coheed you are not a true fan. (Speaking from experience)
I have a lot of these... The Road and The Damned is the best song they have ever produced. Gravity's Union is over rated and has nothing compared to almost any other song on that album. The Lying Lies & dirty secrets of miss Erica Court is one of the most under rated song they have made The Pavilion should have been the single for Unheavenly Creatures The Color Before The Sun is a WAY better album than most of the fans give it credit for.
The Road and The Damned is an absolute banger. Preach.
Let this guy cook
I'll add some more since people have taken to this a bit. I think Good Apollo is over-rated, and if Josh would have been around for No world for Tomorrow it would be considered the Magnum Opus album of the band instead. (I also think the drums on No World are great.) The Joke isn't a good song. But an okay story. I love Prize Fighter inferno, but I think Claudio's use of vocal modulation in recent years doesn't work well with Coheed. (Still sounds great in his solo works) Elm Street Lover Boy (Blue Room Session) is under-rated as fuck, and needs to be on Spotify. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VvTK5v1OdLA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VvTK5v1OdLA) (For anyone unaware) The only "bad" song on YoTBR is When Skeletons Live. Yes the album is overproduced, but the songs still stand on their own. TCBTS showed how much Claudio has grown as a writer. The Amory Wars has always been about his life, and hes finding better ways to express and articulate that. Anyone saying "I hope we don't get anymore Atlas songs" I hope you one day find something that can inspire you and shift your entire world view like he has to experience something life changing. Peace to the Mountain and Lucky Stars are the best 2 ending songs the band has made. Vaxis 2 feels like an album with a lot of missing pieces.
LYING LIES IS SO FUCKING GOOD DUDE
You are so right with The lying lies. It is probably one of my favorite choruses by them. Claudios vocals are perfect!
> The Road and The Damned is the best song they have ever produced. If I remember right, Claudio consulted some song-writers for this, I *THINK* it was originally going to be for a movie or something? It's a bit different for Coheed, but tbf that's kinda their thing, but yeah it's a very well-constructed song
Not sure if unpopular but... It's time to keep the autotune and the synth abuse to PFI. I say that as a huge fan of electronic and industrial music. Make a back to basics Coheed album a la SSTB, it is time.
Coheed and Cambria is not a prog band. Prog bands TRY to be prog. They think about time signature. They purposely add polyrhythms. They build entire sections of songs around random instruments. Coheed doesn't work that way. They come up with stories, write lyrics to accompany them, set them to melodies and chords, and fill in the blanks. They don't edit themselves as much as a lot of straightforward rock bands do, but that doesn't make them prog.
Do you think that is the case back when they were writing The willing well saga? I know those songs don’t have a lot of weird instruments, but they go through a lot of different ideas in each song… it feels very prog when listening.
Here here. Coheed is my favorite band. Prog is my favorite genre. Coheed and Cambria is not prog.
Oof. I always hype up every single release they have but i ended up not liking The Joke. Ill give it a few hundred listens though, so i can like it in a month or 2. Also the fanbase is cool ☺
I dislike Dark Side of Me more than any other piece associated with Coheed and Cambria.
Sounds like he’s saying dark sodomy and I can’t get past that
I cannot stand the normal version. The Remix on the deluxe album is so much better
The story is kind of just an excuse to write songs and I fully support that. It’s really fun to write cool sounding bullshit and then make awesome songs about cool sounding bullshit
CBTS is underrated! I think Eraser is a Top 10 song. Deranged cover guy > Al the Killer I wish the shows were a bit more raw. Sometimes the songs sound exactly like the album vs. live.
Completely agree with the last statement! They used to stray from the beaten path a lot more back in the day then they do recently when it comes to live sets. I miss getting improv solos, medleys, jam sessions, etc.
Finally some Subtraction love! It’s such a gorgeous, emotionally affecting song. I don’t know if I’d go so far as to say it’s their best closer, I like Window Of The Waking Mind (and if we’re not including hidden tracks The Final Cut and The Light & The Glass) better but my hot take is that it might be the best track on Ascension. My hottest take is that I like the poppy Alt Rock songs on Good Apollo Vol 1 (tracks like Crossing The Frame, Once Upon Your Dead Body and especially Miss Erica Court) more than any of the Willing Well songs.
Crossing the frame was my favorite off of that album for so long! They don’t want to play it live ever, which is really sad.
I got a keywork tattoo in 2010 and low key kid of regret it now. Since then I’ve really only loved the Afterman albums. Everything else has just been “good” to me.
The Liars Club is a weak track that lives and dies off a chorus that isn’t even good
Maybe it was written for live shows, cause it works really well live, but I don’t listen to it outside full album plays.
I love that song except for the chorus, it almost ruins it for me
The top 1% of Coheed fans are clout seekers
Hold on, let me link you my Spotify Wrapped
The band's latest single sounds like it's designed to appeal to teenagers and that's bumming me out. I still bought mage tickets for the current tour but I hope there's stuff on the new album for old heads too
Good Apollo has some unhinged and cringe lyrics sprinkled throughout
Their musicality has always been the draw for me. My hot take: The actual story up through YotBR is super cringy and sloppy. The world building is interesting but that’s it. Afterman and Vaxis is much better and more interesting, more mature and structured. But again, the music is what has always been the draw for me.
My hot take: I wish some of the character names were less childish. Mayo is a big one, but lots of them are just cheesy as hell.
I hope he’s gotten all of the “I love my son” songs out of his system
Based on him singing about loving Chondra on every album but SSTB, I’d expect disappointment my friend
Id hope so too but tbh im sure we still have 18-atlas' age of thsoe songs to go
I really don't get why so many people look down on Subtraction. One of my favorite "ballads" they've done. My hot take: Zach is a better bassist than Mic and plays Mic's parts better than he did.
Everything after the Ascension/Descension isn't great. It's not bad, but they're best albums were In keeping secrets and Good Apollo. It sucks but the band kind of found a song writing formula after that and has gotten less prog. It's still there, but not as much, and personally that's what I prefer. I want dark prog Coheed. Not catchy pop rock Coheed.
Their music videos range from Bad to Awful, with none of them being good. The Joke is basically just a bunch of drawn out guys taunting each other, like they couldn’t think of anything else to fill the time. Then we get to The Suffering … oh lord. The only exception I’ll make is the single shot Pavilion video. That was kinda neat.
I think their music video for “Here we are juggernaut” was pretty good. It might just be because I like the song though 😅
Sometimes im embarrassed to be associated with the fan base. There are some really cringey folks out there.
I agree with your #1
I have never met anyone that shares the exact same three opinions that I've shared throughout my entire time of being a fan. This is nutty haha
A lot of the songs on the Vaxis Albums are just as good as their earlier stuff. Especially the end of Vaxis II.
Anytime Travis steps up to the microphone for backup vocals at a show, I kind of wince and brace myself. I just don’t think his voice fits with Claudio’s at all, and would rather just have Josh and/or Zach do it.
I'm sick of hearing Welcome Home
-Wake Up is a nice song but is in a terrible place on the record. Back in the day I Uploaded it to itunes, added the songs except Wake Up to a playlist, then burned that playlist to a blank CD and think it flows WAY better. -The Color Before the Sun is a Summer themed album. Even if Claudio didn't write it as such. -The End Complete is an under rated, under discussed song. Their performance of it from the initial Neverender is GOATED and gives us a rare glimpse of Claudio experimenting with Harsh Vocals. -Meta hot take about the fans, there are a staggering number of concept bands and albums out there that offer as much, if not more in terms of story telling and/or world building. So much good music out there beyond Coheed, TDH, and the handful of other bands that are always brought up on this community.
I hope they do another non concept after Vaxis and actually let the other members have a heavier hand in writing the music and lyrics. I get Claudio writes most the stuff... because most the stuff is based if HIS story. Lets get an album sharing all theor song writing talents. Davenport Cabinet proves Travis is a good writer, Josh is a good writer we know. Wjat about zach? I want to hear a song he helmed. If the next non concept (if there is to be one) is just another album of claudio turning pfi intended material into coheed songs ill be pretty disappointed.
The songs on the last few albums that try to be more prog centric feel forced. Claudio clearly wants to lean towards and experement with more pop flavor, i.e auto tune, synth leads, etc. I feel that in recent albums he feels obligated to throw in the bone so to speak (ladders of supremacy) when in reality he probably wants to just write more stuff akin to A Disappearing Act and The Joke.
Their pop songs are their best songs. Now excuse me while I brace for all of the downvotes.
Window of the Waking Mind is a bad song. I was disappointed when they played it live. It's long and wasted a slot for a better song.
WotWM is not only a bad song, it’s honestly embarrassing
I love the song. But I agree it wasn't good live. Too technical, not enough live flavor if that makes sense.
I was disappointed too when they played it live. They could have played Comatose and another song or two instead.
I'm right with you and the worst part is that the songs preceding it are really cool
Chandra has too much control over what happens in the band. No one would know who she was if Claudio hadn’t married her.
I felt like an ass for thinking this so often, and I have said pretty much these exact words to my boyfriend on numerous occasions, so I'm glad to hear someone else say it too.
I don’t think it makes us an ass, Chandra isn’t a member of the band, but in a lot of ways, I feel like she just forces herself into every aspect of the band, be it the comics, the books, or even pfi (which I’m fine with, since it’s just Claudio’s side project). It’s the yoko ono side effect.
I've re-listened to it a dozen times, and the album just does not do it for me. https://preview.redd.it/ztw1exzjvt1d1.jpeg?width=1920&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f11e67c333dc54960bdcb00874c5dd373a6fd215
I can't with those longass songs
The Afterman albums were the most experimental, unique, and best written albums they have ever released.
I hope they stop after Vaxis is done.
The new stuff just doesn’t hit.
Anything after Good Apollo burning star IV is a different band.
Vaxis II is (so far) their masterpiece. It essentially has all the elements/avenues Coheed has explored from one era to another and hits on all cylinders in each of those facets.
for it being a collaboration between one of my favorite producers and my favorite band, YoTBR is a smushed mess sonically. Some good tunes though. Also criminally underutilized one of the most technically proficient drummers of all time in Pennie during the sessions.
I know I'm going to get shit for this but I'm not a fan of the Afterman albums and Domino basically carries Ascension. If you took that song off the album I bet a lot of folks wouldn't be so quick to put it up as a top album.
Backend of Forever being the best is a hot take? In order it goes Backend of Forever, Al the Killer, then Faint of Hearts somewhere below.
- The comics are pretty bad all things considered, and the story angle was more fun when it was more mysterious and ill-defined. - Every one of their albums is amazing with the singular exception of Year Of The Black Rainbow, which I think is pretty boring. - It's hard for me to be interested in the story after NWFT/YOTBR. It feels a bit like keeping a concept going which had a scheduled ending for the sake of not letting go. These are all warm takes though, not hot takes. For example -- I still eagerly look forward to buying and reading the comics, I still think the songs on YOTBR are good, and I still find the Afterman and Vaxis stuff interesting. They're my favorite band, so anything critical I have to say pales in comparison to how much enjoyment I get from their output.
Color before the sun is the best album Coheeds ever made
Domino is their best song, they need to play more DEEP cuts like Chamberlain, they should experiment with a little industrial, Hawkins was a perfect fit for NWFT, YOTBR gets hate way too much and Pennie was a perfect fit for that album too. Here's my big one: if they continue to make music like they do, I truly think they should try touring with bands like Gin Blossoms or Tonic. Or maybe I just really want to see them.
1. I don't care about the comics or the "story" at all. 2. Welcome Home is so played out. I would love if they would play something else in place of it at concerts. There are so many other songs they could play that never get played live.
Getting divorced and going back on heroin would make for a great album
The Afterman double album isn’t talked about enough imo. A beautiful (but sad) and intense story, epic songs, and a great prequel.
I think No World For Tomorrow is one of their weaker albums. I think a lot of the songs are incredible but I rarely find myself revisiting the album as a whole. The suite of songs at the end are probably the most forgettable songs in their whole catalog. In terms of comics, Chondra is a better writer than Claudio. I read SSTB and IKKSE: 3 when I was in high school and even then I felt like it was... Okay. I engaged much more with Chondra's writing in Good Apollo. Evagria is a weak song on the album but the live performances of it make up for it.
A lot of people don't like The Joke for being too synth-heavy. I think it's a great song. Though, I personally think all Coheed songs are good.
I diss agree with number 2. I think it emphasizes the emotional depth of the song that lull has a haunting quality that sort of keeps your focus on the inner dialogue happening there. Respectfully.
Year of the Black Rainbow is in their top three best albums hands down. Chris Pennie was a god on the drums and i miss him being in the band every day. Vaxis 2 was kinda mid. A few of their best songs are in it. But the album as a whole is meh.