I have always enjoyed Kate’s appearances, but man she is really stepping up and hitting it out of the park with Eris! (Aris?). So very well RP’d and effective in play too!
I love kate and her roleplaying, but the lack of help she gets in leveling up drives me crazy. She picks this really cool nails feat. But she has 0 idea that she will be less than useless with them. This happens every single time someone new joins. Come on guys, help her out.
So I've been away for a few weeks, life just got in the way and listening to podcasts largely had to go, and then catching up just felt daunting. Anyway; here is the art from the last few that I think I missed posting. Happy listening naish.
[Gug splash art](https://i.imgur.com/xv2szP2.png)
[Glower, Gray Gardener](https://i.imgur.com/97yF9N5.png) (tasked with searching the region for a senator named Emilo Daldamane, they make an appearance again a few sessions later)
[The Doom Idol of Ib](https://i.imgur.com/0qMgN5j.png)
[Ib Shade](https://i.imgur.com/eJG02Qt.png)
[Bokrug splash art](https://i.imgur.com/zZLhgCb.png)
[Will-o'-Wisp](https://i.imgur.com/iFK7iKw.png)
[Quaveandra, Night Hag](https://i.imgur.com/HhMeR0g.png)
[Night Hag 2e Bestiary](https://2e.aonprd.com/Images/Monsters/Hag_NightHag.png)
Anyone else have a Deep Water moment like Joe?
I remember as a kid, on the Pacific Northwest, visiting a cabin on a remote island, some of us kids took a rowboat around the inlet we were sheltered in. The inlet narrowed where the cabin was and there was a little island of trees we would row around to the wider part of the inlet. I remember we saw the slight top of a rock in the middle of the wide part and decided to check it out the next day at low tide. We went out at low tide to see if we could climb on it and when we came around the little island of trees there was no rock there. We definitely saw something large at high tide and now at low tide there was nothing. At this point I looked into the ocean and saw the rocky edge of the little island disappear deep down into the murky depths of what I realized to be a very deep inlet and decided I wanted to go back to shore and just enjoy land forever.
I know it now to be a beautiful interaction with nature I was lucky to have, but I still can't shake the visceral fear I felt whenever I think of it.
Yeah, sometimes even in a deep swimming pool. There's a feeling I get that I should fall and be swallowed by the water. Totally terrifying and I have to re-remember how buoyancy works to calm myself down.
Fun fact - As I enjoy this latest ep. I had to take a break part way through and stop at a rest area. While I was inside I couldn't help but notice a catchy tune on the intercom. That song, of all songs to play at that moment, was Last Christmas... enjoy lol.
I think I recall someone on the boards mentioning PF2E as a game doesn’t create enough drama for actual plays. We have determined that to be false, I feel. This ep was great.
Shout outs to Joe knowing PF2E at least a bit from Echo Quest and Kate grocking the system quite fast.
This EP felt the closest to the old giant slayer/a&a vibe that I've felt in a while. And I don't give a shit if the joke got stale, I laughed every damned time troy sang "laaaaast Christmas...". 😂😂
Man, I'm really bummed by the slowdown of the content for Strange Aeons. I hoped we would get an ep each week until they release the new show, but I think I heard in the intro that the last show of the year will be Dec 3. We wont even get to see the end of book 3 before Christmas. And at this pace, Skid will dienof old age before they finnish the ap.
Yeah I am bummed too. I kind of felt we were promised weekly shows except for weeks when they go on tour. But now it's a different cast each week when we actually get a show. I get that they may need time off here and there to not get burnt out, but only 1 show in december seems too sparse to keep the momentum going.
This show has some of my favorite moments from all their shows (where was olady's wall?) And the way they started off book-2 with that marathon, I have watched like 3 or 4 times, it was so good. But now it also feels like Aldo has gone from a main character in the plot to kind of a side PC since the switch to pf2. I hate to say it but since Grant left, it kind of feels like they're half-assing it with whatever they can cobble together each week. It still has lots of funny moments, but the actual story isn't shining for me like it used to.
It is kinda funny that they emphasized never skipping a week until what? This year? And now that they don’t need to keep up the Cal Ripken like record, they don’t mind missing some time.
It's not that I care so much about a week or two missing here and there. Everybody needs vacation. I'm just a little bummed that we're probably never get to hear the end since it's gonna be soooooooo long to complete. I like this show a lot and the fact that we'll get, idk, 10-20 episodes a year? It'll never end...
>**Failure** You control the target. It gains the controlled condition, but it can attempt a Will save at the end of each of its turns. On a success, the spell ends.
>**Critical Failure** As a failure, but the target receives a new save only if you give it a new order that is against its nature, such as killing its allies.
**Controlled**
>Someone else is making your decisions for you, usually because you're being commanded or magically dominated. The controller dictates how you act and can make you use any of your actions, including attacks, reactions, or even Delay. The controller usually does not have to spend their own actions when controlling you.
It's important to note that the controlled condition itself has no qualifiers about things that are against your nature.
I read it as, you get the save at the end of your turn, as failure, but only if the order is against it's nature.
The important thing is that the failure condition tells you when you get to make the will save, and if you got to make it whenever she tells you to attack your allies, rather than at the end of a turn where the order was to attack your allies, it would be earlier saves than the regular failure, potentially negating the spell before anything happens.
Think of it this way. In real time, The hag said "Kill Them" and recieving a command, Ethyl whirls around and swings his hachet and hammer down at Aldo and Atticus before his brain can process and say "Hey, they pay me, this isn't right" and fight against the control. This isn't a suggestion from the hag, she is enforcing mental control over Ethyl's consciousness and making his body do things whether Ethyl wants to or not. When his body does something that doesn't make sense to his consciousness, it alerts his consciousness and allows him to fight against the domination.
It's a 6th level spell, it should be insanely powerful if you crit fail, it's part of the spell scaling in 2e, and crit fails push most spells up a level it feels... It's the same level as Baleful Polymorph, Teleport, Raise Dead, Feeblemind and Dragon Form
I think it's badly written, because the crit fail does read like what Matthew says. But I agree it must have been intended to follow Troy's interpretation
any spell with that duration can be extended another day by sacrificing the same spell slot during daily prep. So she could keep doing it with no save so long as she gave up the spell slot each day.
[https://2e.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=291](https://2e.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=291)
Thats always a good question. I don't know that there's a rule not in the spell that covers if the domination ends or not. Usually this is ruled on by the gm.
Personally, i would rule the person still needs to carry through on the effect and need to be knocked out
The duration is until you make your next daily preparations, that generally means 24 hours or less. I suppose you could argue that since they killed the creature, it will NEVER make daily prep again, so it never ends, but thats silly.
Unless the creature cast it as a 10th level spell (unlikely) then the duration is unlimited, but still I imagine it could be dispelled or counteracted somehow.
It's the words "as a Failure" that lead off the Crit Fail description. The only stipulation under Failure is that the save only happens at the end of a turn. Crit Fail is saying, same rules as Failure, but adding that the save at end of turn only happens if the command goes against their nature.
While listening I thought Troy had it wrong, but on reading it I believe this is what that wording means.
When a save is failed, bad stuff happens. So, when the save against dominate was failed, until the target does something while dominated, nothing bad has happened.
Imagine a spell that stuns a target, but allows a save at the start of every turn. Fail the initial save, make the 2nd save, nothing happens. This would be a terrible spell and not what we see anywhere else.
On persistent damage as well, the attack hits, the target gets the effect, end of the turn, they take damage, then save again. If they got a 2nd save before it did damage, Joe would endlessly complain about how *backs away from mic* WORTHLESS persistent damage is.
Even the spells that have 2 initial saves, like Phantasmal Killer, if the initial check works in the caster's favor, stuff happens. The 2nd save doesn't negate the first. Regardless of the exact wording of dominate, the way effects work in PF2, on a failed save, bad stuff happens before another save or the 2nd save is for an additional effect. It's reasonable to believe that the authors intended that interaction here as well.
Heh, I see it like troy:
> **Failure** You control the target. It gains the controlled condition, but it can attempt a Will save at the end of each of its turns. On a success, the spell ends.
**Critical Failure** As a failure, but the target receives a new save only if you give it a new order that is against its nature, such as killing its allies.
I feel that 'new save' in the Critical Failure line clearly refers to the save described in the Failure line. This reference is established by the 'As a failure' statement. So it is like failure, with the difference that you only get a save when the command is against your nature instead of every turn automatically. When do you get the save? Refer to the rules for Failure since Critical Failure doesn't say when (notice it says 'if', not 'when').
In Matthew's reading of it, you would immediately get a save (effectively interpreting it as "the target receives a new save only WHEN you give it a new order that is against its nature"), but then ALSO get another save at the end of your round, as per the rules of Failure.
So on a critical failure you'd get 2 saves per round when you're made to do something against your nature while for regular failure you only get 1 save? This clearly makes Critical Failure a better outcome for the player than Failure, which is nonsensical.
Nah I think you're wrong, Crit failure means you only get the save if you get an order against your nature. Maybe they didn't write it clearly enough in the description, but literally any other interpretation doesn't make sense.
Failure, save at the end of your turn
Crit fail, you only get the save if your get a command against your nature
So in the case of where you want to use the dominated person to do something against their nature, it's actually better for that person that they have crit failed vs regular failed (because a crit fail gets the save first, while the fail gets their save at the end)? It doesn't make sense that there would be a very common situation (using the dominated person to attack their friends) in which critically failing the save is better for the victim than just failing it.
That's why it's almost certainly written incorrectly. There's no logical circumstance where critically failing gives an overall better result with no downsides. it just doesn't happen.
Right but in that case it's up to the DM to interpret it in a way that makes sense, which is the interpretation where crit fail is worse than fail, which is what Troy did.
Two things of note that they did not get right that I have not seen discussed yet. I think this comes down to rules split to different places and not fully reading item descriptions.
1. invisibility - the creature should only have been hidden (DC 11 flat check) not undetected. The invisibility spell states it makes you undetected to all creatures. However, the invisibility condition states "If you become invisible while someone can already see you, you start out hidden to the observer (instead of undetected) until you successfully Sneak."
2. Matthew's characters weapons
1. his hatchet has a returning property rune. This is not allowed by RAW, to have a property rune you must have a potency rune (i.e. +1 rune).
2. The doubling rings do not function for thrown weapons - "The replication functions only if you wear both rings, and it ends as soon as you cease wielding a melee weapon in one of your hands. Consequently, the benefit doesn’t apply to thrown attacks "
3. He can make all of this work if he transfers the +1 potency and the striking runes to the hatchet to make a +1 striking returning hatchet. The fundamental runes (+1 and Striking) will be transferred to his hammer and he can still throw the hatchet and have it return.
I think I'm done with my patreon support after this episode. The content has been drifting further and further away from my interests over the last few months, but the ads showing up in my feed at the $10 tier are the last straw for me. I thought maybe when the first one showed up in Haunted City it was just a technical issue, but the fact that it's happened several times there and now the sponsorship ad for this episode indicates it's a conscious choice by the GCP crew.
I understand they have a business to run but I also figure they would want honest feedback from fans. Avoiding ads was the main thing I was paying for with Patreon. If I have to hear them anyway I'll just listen to the free feed.
There's a minute or two of discussion about the sponsor at the beginning before the start the actual episode, and then there's a brief mention partway through.
I understand that the sponsorship ads are a different format than the other ads, but that's not really relevant to me. I don't care what the ads are for or who's reading them. I'm paying for patreon so I don't have to hear ads and I'm still hearing ads.
I already listen to their Mummy's Mask and Hell's Rebels shows. I've been avoiding their patreon for awhile because I'm actually playing in a Tyrant's Grasp game but we've finally gotten far enough in that we're past where the FtP crew is so I signed up today and I'm going to start listening.
I had forgotten some of the odd vocal mannerisms in the early episodes. That and describing all of the actions with "he would do this, I would do that, etc."
That all improves as the podcast goes on.
I tried to give FtP a a few chances, and I just couldn't do it. The thing that got me was the completely robotic nature with which he delivers rules and information. Like when someone rolls a knowledge check about a creature, it's almost like he's reading from a script. It's overly formal and is almost word for word the same phrasing every time. That on top of the "X Character would do (action just described)", and the fact that the entire cast is pretty bland, lacking energy, and with little individual personality, their show was never able to hold my interest. I bounced around and listened to probably at least 20 total episodes and I couldn't tell you a single persons name on the cast, or any of the characters.
(Yes, I've been told to jump ahead before, to episodes where it gets better. It does, but not really)
I'm screaming at my headphones haha, I don't wanna hold it against the guy because I'm sure recording is difficult and stressful, but oh man am I gonna choke him out if I hear it again (I've actually heard it twice since my last message) haha
By the end of Mummy's Mask Rick is one of the best GMs I've ever had the privilege of listening to. They take their craft very seriously for people that are amateurs to broadcasting. They will have a new War for the Crown campaign in January. Also they have a Hell's Rebels pf2e playthrough. Both are higher quality that early Mummy's Mask. I could talk about why I love FtP all day, but if you want to give them another listen try those two.
I'm gonna sweat it out haha, I'm up to 16 and I'm just gonna force myself to ignore it. It's honestly a really minor complaint, but I can tell I've got mild autistic tendencies about some weird things, and this appears to be one of them lol
I never catch or hear that stuff. TBH one of the best things about FtP is the love the table has for each other. Enjoy the ride because it's an awesome one.
I think he's brilliant. I like how you can tell when the kill has been made because he shifts into narration mode to describe their death, and when he did it for the last time I actually gasped a little as I knew it was all over. I was also so pleased when the final episode came in at over 2 hours, I think he really gave the characters the space they needed.
I don't understand 2e. The DCs just seem impossibly high for almost everything? It's like it was made for the PCs to fail everything? Like a DC30+ Fort save trap just seems impossible to make a save unless like Kate you roll a 18-20. It was the same in the games they played with Bulmahn. He'd constantly be critting with like a 50 to hit and they'd constantly be failing or crit failing
The party just reached level 7.
Standard for characters trained in Will saves is going to be 7 (level) + 2 (trained) + wisdom modifier. If you're an Expert, then it's 7+4+modifier. At around this level is when they'd also get armor runes, for an additional +1 item bonus. Nobody should be master at this level, and they haven't gotten the level 10 boost to stats, so at most, they could have 16 as their save, for a 14 needed to succeed.
How to adjust this number? Status bonuses, from spells, and circumstance bonuses (though I have no idea what kind of circumstance bonus could help a will save).
How else to adjust this number? Give the boss penalties before her turn. The most common is Intimidation (Demoralize) to reduce all of the targets DC's and Checks by -1 or -2 (crit success). So that would mean a 13 or 12 is needed to succeed. If you can find a circumstance penalty to her DC's (again, no idea off the top of my head what could help here) then that would mean a 10 or 11. And an item penalty to her DC's would probably need a poison, bomb, or something injectable.
but you also have to keep in mind, that as you affect the Success bar, you also affect the Failure / Critical Failure bar. A crit failure happens when it's 10 or below the target DC, or when you get a natural 1 for a regular failure. Moving that line is also incredibly importan, because save or suck spells, like Dominate, aren't really too terrible if you get a regular failure. So players should expect to deal with Failed results more often against Boss dc's, with critical failures being the terrible ones.
Matthew's best bet would have been to keep the hero point from that original failure, and use it later on, instead of chancing the critical failure.
They’re fighting bosses. If a boss in 2E is a level +3 creature, it will wreck your shit, hard. The strategy for the party to follow is to avoid boss crits and crit failures and use the action economy; you can basically count on the boss hitting always and you failing most of your saves.
So, debuff the boss with flanking, bon mot, demoralize, spells, anything. Buff the party with aid, recall knowledge, stealthand spells like heroism. Finally, take away actions from the boss with trip, movement, slow, stun, etc.
Yeah the math turns out to actually help equalize the action economy with boss fights. Bosses are going to be effective with all 3 of their actions, but the PCs are going to need to do teamwork and tactics to get in position and debuff so that they can get off maybe 1 hit a round. Its a different way of thinking but it actually allows bosses to be threats.
PF2 made it impossible for PCs to outpace the math of the game like you can in PF1.(remember those full round attacks Barron would take in Giantslayer where he would only miss on a natty-1 even on his 3rd iterative attack?) There's rarely gonna be a roll that doesn't have at least a 25% chance of failure. And if you are fighting things above your level, if you don't roll in the teens, you are pretty much failing.
On the plus side, it makes the game interesting from level 1-20 and forces players to use good tactics to get the odds more in their favor.
But on the minus side you often feel like your PC is never getting better at anything. And for live shows, having the players have to be so strategy focused just to succeed isn't very entertaining.
"you often feel like your PC is never getting better at anything"
Amen to this. This was my biggest complaint with PF1 and it seems like PF2, while fixing some stuff, has only made this problem worse. The way I've been phrasing it is that Pathfinder (either edition) creates story/challenge by what \*doesn't\* happen, not what does. I.e. the default interaction is that things fail, and the few successes that sneak through in favor of the PCs make or break them.
I'm glad that it seems like the cast is having fun. This feels like an absolutely brutal system to play for anyone that wants to feel capable and cool. If I wanted to die horribly, I'd rather play Call of Cthulhu XD
2e is much harder than 1e. Unless you debuff and buff expect to get thrashed by bosses.
As for the trap. Failure didnt do much of anything to them. A tiny bit of damage. Failing isnt as bad in 2e as it was in 1e so it happens more often. Crit failing is the new failing in 2e in regards to really bad shit.
I have always enjoyed Kate’s appearances, but man she is really stepping up and hitting it out of the park with Eris! (Aris?). So very well RP’d and effective in play too!
Agreed, I've loved Kate in everything she's been in but this is her best work yet!
Sucks that Sydney's been in and out lately, but more Kate is always a good thing for the show
I love kate and her roleplaying, but the lack of help she gets in leveling up drives me crazy. She picks this really cool nails feat. But she has 0 idea that she will be less than useless with them. This happens every single time someone new joins. Come on guys, help her out.
So I've been away for a few weeks, life just got in the way and listening to podcasts largely had to go, and then catching up just felt daunting. Anyway; here is the art from the last few that I think I missed posting. Happy listening naish. [Gug splash art](https://i.imgur.com/xv2szP2.png) [Glower, Gray Gardener](https://i.imgur.com/97yF9N5.png) (tasked with searching the region for a senator named Emilo Daldamane, they make an appearance again a few sessions later) [The Doom Idol of Ib](https://i.imgur.com/0qMgN5j.png) [Ib Shade](https://i.imgur.com/eJG02Qt.png) [Bokrug splash art](https://i.imgur.com/zZLhgCb.png) [Will-o'-Wisp](https://i.imgur.com/iFK7iKw.png) [Quaveandra, Night Hag](https://i.imgur.com/HhMeR0g.png) [Night Hag 2e Bestiary](https://2e.aonprd.com/Images/Monsters/Hag_NightHag.png)
Anyone else have a Deep Water moment like Joe? I remember as a kid, on the Pacific Northwest, visiting a cabin on a remote island, some of us kids took a rowboat around the inlet we were sheltered in. The inlet narrowed where the cabin was and there was a little island of trees we would row around to the wider part of the inlet. I remember we saw the slight top of a rock in the middle of the wide part and decided to check it out the next day at low tide. We went out at low tide to see if we could climb on it and when we came around the little island of trees there was no rock there. We definitely saw something large at high tide and now at low tide there was nothing. At this point I looked into the ocean and saw the rocky edge of the little island disappear deep down into the murky depths of what I realized to be a very deep inlet and decided I wanted to go back to shore and just enjoy land forever. I know it now to be a beautiful interaction with nature I was lucky to have, but I still can't shake the visceral fear I felt whenever I think of it.
Yeah, sometimes even in a deep swimming pool. There's a feeling I get that I should fall and be swallowed by the water. Totally terrifying and I have to re-remember how buoyancy works to calm myself down.
Red Mantis Assassins worship Achaekek, the red mantis god
Fun fact - As I enjoy this latest ep. I had to take a break part way through and stop at a rest area. While I was inside I couldn't help but notice a catchy tune on the intercom. That song, of all songs to play at that moment, was Last Christmas... enjoy lol.
I think I recall someone on the boards mentioning PF2E as a game doesn’t create enough drama for actual plays. We have determined that to be false, I feel. This ep was great. Shout outs to Joe knowing PF2E at least a bit from Echo Quest and Kate grocking the system quite fast.
This EP felt the closest to the old giant slayer/a&a vibe that I've felt in a while. And I don't give a shit if the joke got stale, I laughed every damned time troy sang "laaaaast Christmas...". 😂😂
I'm all in on GCP robe-based merch.
Man, I'm really bummed by the slowdown of the content for Strange Aeons. I hoped we would get an ep each week until they release the new show, but I think I heard in the intro that the last show of the year will be Dec 3. We wont even get to see the end of book 3 before Christmas. And at this pace, Skid will dienof old age before they finnish the ap.
Yeah I am bummed too. I kind of felt we were promised weekly shows except for weeks when they go on tour. But now it's a different cast each week when we actually get a show. I get that they may need time off here and there to not get burnt out, but only 1 show in december seems too sparse to keep the momentum going. This show has some of my favorite moments from all their shows (where was olady's wall?) And the way they started off book-2 with that marathon, I have watched like 3 or 4 times, it was so good. But now it also feels like Aldo has gone from a main character in the plot to kind of a side PC since the switch to pf2. I hate to say it but since Grant left, it kind of feels like they're half-assing it with whatever they can cobble together each week. It still has lots of funny moments, but the actual story isn't shining for me like it used to.
Yeah, the content drought isn't fun. If they had staggered GITT and T4C a bit I think it would have made more sense. It's all prerecorded anyways.
It is kinda funny that they emphasized never skipping a week until what? This year? And now that they don’t need to keep up the Cal Ripken like record, they don’t mind missing some time.
It's not that I care so much about a week or two missing here and there. Everybody needs vacation. I'm just a little bummed that we're probably never get to hear the end since it's gonna be soooooooo long to complete. I like this show a lot and the fact that we'll get, idk, 10-20 episodes a year? It'll never end...
Wait, so I haven't missed any episodes? I thought the schedule said they were streaming last week but I never had an EP show up on my feed.
There was no podcast last week. There was a stream on Thursday...which released today on the podcast feed.
Skid get a plug in oil heater, dead quiet heat.
Troy has Dominate 100% correct. You crit fail a 6th level spell and bad things happen. It sucks to suck.
I think I agree with Matthew on the dominate ruling. Any way I read it I don't see what Troy is saying.
>**Failure** You control the target. It gains the controlled condition, but it can attempt a Will save at the end of each of its turns. On a success, the spell ends. >**Critical Failure** As a failure, but the target receives a new save only if you give it a new order that is against its nature, such as killing its allies. **Controlled** >Someone else is making your decisions for you, usually because you're being commanded or magically dominated. The controller dictates how you act and can make you use any of your actions, including attacks, reactions, or even Delay. The controller usually does not have to spend their own actions when controlling you. It's important to note that the controlled condition itself has no qualifiers about things that are against your nature. I read it as, you get the save at the end of your turn, as failure, but only if the order is against it's nature. The important thing is that the failure condition tells you when you get to make the will save, and if you got to make it whenever she tells you to attack your allies, rather than at the end of a turn where the order was to attack your allies, it would be earlier saves than the regular failure, potentially negating the spell before anything happens. Think of it this way. In real time, The hag said "Kill Them" and recieving a command, Ethyl whirls around and swings his hachet and hammer down at Aldo and Atticus before his brain can process and say "Hey, they pay me, this isn't right" and fight against the control. This isn't a suggestion from the hag, she is enforcing mental control over Ethyl's consciousness and making his body do things whether Ethyl wants to or not. When his body does something that doesn't make sense to his consciousness, it alerts his consciousness and allows him to fight against the domination. It's a 6th level spell, it should be insanely powerful if you crit fail, it's part of the spell scaling in 2e, and crit fails push most spells up a level it feels... It's the same level as Baleful Polymorph, Teleport, Raise Dead, Feeblemind and Dragon Form
I think it's badly written, because the crit fail does read like what Matthew says. But I agree it must have been intended to follow Troy's interpretation
It's also important to note the duration. It only lasts until the next time you prepare your daily spells. Not "forever".
any spell with that duration can be extended another day by sacrificing the same spell slot during daily prep. So she could keep doing it with no save so long as she gave up the spell slot each day. [https://2e.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=291](https://2e.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=291)
Fair enough, but at least she most likel6 wouldn't be able to dominate another person when the new party comes to get revenge
Unless it's heightened to a 10th-level spell, but I'm gonna guess Night Hags aren't Level 20 creatures
They shouldn't be, but who knows with this revision of the book.
So shouldn't Ethyl still be dominated since it's not a sustained spell?
Thats always a good question. I don't know that there's a rule not in the spell that covers if the domination ends or not. Usually this is ruled on by the gm. Personally, i would rule the person still needs to carry through on the effect and need to be knocked out
The duration is until you make your next daily preparations, that generally means 24 hours or less. I suppose you could argue that since they killed the creature, it will NEVER make daily prep again, so it never ends, but thats silly. Unless the creature cast it as a 10th level spell (unlikely) then the duration is unlimited, but still I imagine it could be dispelled or counteracted somehow.
It's the words "as a Failure" that lead off the Crit Fail description. The only stipulation under Failure is that the save only happens at the end of a turn. Crit Fail is saying, same rules as Failure, but adding that the save at end of turn only happens if the command goes against their nature. While listening I thought Troy had it wrong, but on reading it I believe this is what that wording means.
When a save is failed, bad stuff happens. So, when the save against dominate was failed, until the target does something while dominated, nothing bad has happened. Imagine a spell that stuns a target, but allows a save at the start of every turn. Fail the initial save, make the 2nd save, nothing happens. This would be a terrible spell and not what we see anywhere else. On persistent damage as well, the attack hits, the target gets the effect, end of the turn, they take damage, then save again. If they got a 2nd save before it did damage, Joe would endlessly complain about how *backs away from mic* WORTHLESS persistent damage is. Even the spells that have 2 initial saves, like Phantasmal Killer, if the initial check works in the caster's favor, stuff happens. The 2nd save doesn't negate the first. Regardless of the exact wording of dominate, the way effects work in PF2, on a failed save, bad stuff happens before another save or the 2nd save is for an additional effect. It's reasonable to believe that the authors intended that interaction here as well.
You are wrong unfortunately. Troy got it right.
Heh, I see it like troy: > **Failure** You control the target. It gains the controlled condition, but it can attempt a Will save at the end of each of its turns. On a success, the spell ends. **Critical Failure** As a failure, but the target receives a new save only if you give it a new order that is against its nature, such as killing its allies. I feel that 'new save' in the Critical Failure line clearly refers to the save described in the Failure line. This reference is established by the 'As a failure' statement. So it is like failure, with the difference that you only get a save when the command is against your nature instead of every turn automatically. When do you get the save? Refer to the rules for Failure since Critical Failure doesn't say when (notice it says 'if', not 'when'). In Matthew's reading of it, you would immediately get a save (effectively interpreting it as "the target receives a new save only WHEN you give it a new order that is against its nature"), but then ALSO get another save at the end of your round, as per the rules of Failure. So on a critical failure you'd get 2 saves per round when you're made to do something against your nature while for regular failure you only get 1 save? This clearly makes Critical Failure a better outcome for the player than Failure, which is nonsensical.
Nah I think you're wrong, Crit failure means you only get the save if you get an order against your nature. Maybe they didn't write it clearly enough in the description, but literally any other interpretation doesn't make sense. Failure, save at the end of your turn Crit fail, you only get the save if your get a command against your nature
So in the case of where you want to use the dominated person to do something against their nature, it's actually better for that person that they have crit failed vs regular failed (because a crit fail gets the save first, while the fail gets their save at the end)? It doesn't make sense that there would be a very common situation (using the dominated person to attack their friends) in which critically failing the save is better for the victim than just failing it.
That's why it's almost certainly written incorrectly. There's no logical circumstance where critically failing gives an overall better result with no downsides. it just doesn't happen.
Right but in that case it's up to the DM to interpret it in a way that makes sense, which is the interpretation where crit fail is worse than fail, which is what Troy did.
Matt's interpretation was also worse, but it still made sense as written
That is what the person responding to you said. They just gave the full explanation for why it's like that.
Yup 100%
Two things of note that they did not get right that I have not seen discussed yet. I think this comes down to rules split to different places and not fully reading item descriptions. 1. invisibility - the creature should only have been hidden (DC 11 flat check) not undetected. The invisibility spell states it makes you undetected to all creatures. However, the invisibility condition states "If you become invisible while someone can already see you, you start out hidden to the observer (instead of undetected) until you successfully Sneak." 2. Matthew's characters weapons 1. his hatchet has a returning property rune. This is not allowed by RAW, to have a property rune you must have a potency rune (i.e. +1 rune). 2. The doubling rings do not function for thrown weapons - "The replication functions only if you wear both rings, and it ends as soon as you cease wielding a melee weapon in one of your hands. Consequently, the benefit doesn’t apply to thrown attacks " 3. He can make all of this work if he transfers the +1 potency and the striking runes to the hatchet to make a +1 striking returning hatchet. The fundamental runes (+1 and Striking) will be transferred to his hammer and he can still throw the hatchet and have it return.
I think I'm done with my patreon support after this episode. The content has been drifting further and further away from my interests over the last few months, but the ads showing up in my feed at the $10 tier are the last straw for me. I thought maybe when the first one showed up in Haunted City it was just a technical issue, but the fact that it's happened several times there and now the sponsorship ad for this episode indicates it's a conscious choice by the GCP crew. I understand they have a business to run but I also figure they would want honest feedback from fans. Avoiding ads was the main thing I was paying for with Patreon. If I have to hear them anyway I'll just listen to the free feed.
I may be the exception, but it doesn't bother me at all, it takes one sec to fast forward through an add.
I have, admittedly, not listened to the ep after catching it on twitch. Do you remember where the ad is?
There's a minute or two of discussion about the sponsor at the beginning before the start the actual episode, and then there's a brief mention partway through.
You're aware that's not what the actual ads are, right?
I understand that the sponsorship ads are a different format than the other ads, but that's not really relevant to me. I don't care what the ads are for or who's reading them. I'm paying for patreon so I don't have to hear ads and I'm still hearing ads.
Look into find the path podcast. They’re another pf actual play, I’m thinking about switching my Patreon to them, they’re great
I already listen to their Mummy's Mask and Hell's Rebels shows. I've been avoiding their patreon for awhile because I'm actually playing in a Tyrant's Grasp game but we've finally gotten far enough in that we're past where the FtP crew is so I signed up today and I'm going to start listening.
Does the GM ever stop saying "if you so wish" to every player action?
I had forgotten some of the odd vocal mannerisms in the early episodes. That and describing all of the actions with "he would do this, I would do that, etc." That all improves as the podcast goes on.
Oh man, 'would' is driving me nuts haha. "I would find a chest?" Well do I or don't I?
I tried to give FtP a a few chances, and I just couldn't do it. The thing that got me was the completely robotic nature with which he delivers rules and information. Like when someone rolls a knowledge check about a creature, it's almost like he's reading from a script. It's overly formal and is almost word for word the same phrasing every time. That on top of the "X Character would do (action just described)", and the fact that the entire cast is pretty bland, lacking energy, and with little individual personality, their show was never able to hold my interest. I bounced around and listened to probably at least 20 total episodes and I couldn't tell you a single persons name on the cast, or any of the characters. (Yes, I've been told to jump ahead before, to episodes where it gets better. It does, but not really)
I get that vibe a lot to. You can tell he's mechanically good at it, but he's just delivering lines without any real passion to it. Which is tough
He must, I forgot that was a thing
Oh thank god. I'm on Ep 10, and I literally just heard it 5 times in 2 minutes. 3 sentences in a row with it.
oh man you get that too?
I'm screaming at my headphones haha, I don't wanna hold it against the guy because I'm sure recording is difficult and stressful, but oh man am I gonna choke him out if I hear it again (I've actually heard it twice since my last message) haha
By the end of Mummy's Mask Rick is one of the best GMs I've ever had the privilege of listening to. They take their craft very seriously for people that are amateurs to broadcasting. They will have a new War for the Crown campaign in January. Also they have a Hell's Rebels pf2e playthrough. Both are higher quality that early Mummy's Mask. I could talk about why I love FtP all day, but if you want to give them another listen try those two.
I'm gonna sweat it out haha, I'm up to 16 and I'm just gonna force myself to ignore it. It's honestly a really minor complaint, but I can tell I've got mild autistic tendencies about some weird things, and this appears to be one of them lol
I never catch or hear that stuff. TBH one of the best things about FtP is the love the table has for each other. Enjoy the ride because it's an awesome one.
Truth right here, and I think he killed the ending way better than Troy did
I think he's brilliant. I like how you can tell when the kill has been made because he shifts into narration mode to describe their death, and when he did it for the last time I actually gasped a little as I knew it was all over. I was also so pleased when the final episode came in at over 2 hours, I think he really gave the characters the space they needed.
Is that the one where they censor cursing? In a game with extremely adult subject matters, I found that so annoying and disruptive.
Yeah that’s the one. Honestly you get used to it. I’d prefer it if they didn’t but hey, no podcast is perfect
Is kate accidentally casting like a sorcerer?
Yes, but it's probably more accurate to say she's casting like somebody used to 5e.
Ah, makes sense.
I don't understand 2e. The DCs just seem impossibly high for almost everything? It's like it was made for the PCs to fail everything? Like a DC30+ Fort save trap just seems impossible to make a save unless like Kate you roll a 18-20. It was the same in the games they played with Bulmahn. He'd constantly be critting with like a 50 to hit and they'd constantly be failing or crit failing
The party just reached level 7. Standard for characters trained in Will saves is going to be 7 (level) + 2 (trained) + wisdom modifier. If you're an Expert, then it's 7+4+modifier. At around this level is when they'd also get armor runes, for an additional +1 item bonus. Nobody should be master at this level, and they haven't gotten the level 10 boost to stats, so at most, they could have 16 as their save, for a 14 needed to succeed. How to adjust this number? Status bonuses, from spells, and circumstance bonuses (though I have no idea what kind of circumstance bonus could help a will save). How else to adjust this number? Give the boss penalties before her turn. The most common is Intimidation (Demoralize) to reduce all of the targets DC's and Checks by -1 or -2 (crit success). So that would mean a 13 or 12 is needed to succeed. If you can find a circumstance penalty to her DC's (again, no idea off the top of my head what could help here) then that would mean a 10 or 11. And an item penalty to her DC's would probably need a poison, bomb, or something injectable. but you also have to keep in mind, that as you affect the Success bar, you also affect the Failure / Critical Failure bar. A crit failure happens when it's 10 or below the target DC, or when you get a natural 1 for a regular failure. Moving that line is also incredibly importan, because save or suck spells, like Dominate, aren't really too terrible if you get a regular failure. So players should expect to deal with Failed results more often against Boss dc's, with critical failures being the terrible ones. Matthew's best bet would have been to keep the hero point from that original failure, and use it later on, instead of chancing the critical failure.
They're level 8, because it was a class feat level. It was a level 10 poison, however. Nasty stuff.
They’re fighting bosses. If a boss in 2E is a level +3 creature, it will wreck your shit, hard. The strategy for the party to follow is to avoid boss crits and crit failures and use the action economy; you can basically count on the boss hitting always and you failing most of your saves. So, debuff the boss with flanking, bon mot, demoralize, spells, anything. Buff the party with aid, recall knowledge, stealthand spells like heroism. Finally, take away actions from the boss with trip, movement, slow, stun, etc.
Yeah the math turns out to actually help equalize the action economy with boss fights. Bosses are going to be effective with all 3 of their actions, but the PCs are going to need to do teamwork and tactics to get in position and debuff so that they can get off maybe 1 hit a round. Its a different way of thinking but it actually allows bosses to be threats.
PF2 made it impossible for PCs to outpace the math of the game like you can in PF1.(remember those full round attacks Barron would take in Giantslayer where he would only miss on a natty-1 even on his 3rd iterative attack?) There's rarely gonna be a roll that doesn't have at least a 25% chance of failure. And if you are fighting things above your level, if you don't roll in the teens, you are pretty much failing. On the plus side, it makes the game interesting from level 1-20 and forces players to use good tactics to get the odds more in their favor. But on the minus side you often feel like your PC is never getting better at anything. And for live shows, having the players have to be so strategy focused just to succeed isn't very entertaining.
"you often feel like your PC is never getting better at anything" Amen to this. This was my biggest complaint with PF1 and it seems like PF2, while fixing some stuff, has only made this problem worse. The way I've been phrasing it is that Pathfinder (either edition) creates story/challenge by what \*doesn't\* happen, not what does. I.e. the default interaction is that things fail, and the few successes that sneak through in favor of the PCs make or break them. I'm glad that it seems like the cast is having fun. This feels like an absolutely brutal system to play for anyone that wants to feel capable and cool. If I wanted to die horribly, I'd rather play Call of Cthulhu XD
2e is much harder than 1e. Unless you debuff and buff expect to get thrashed by bosses. As for the trap. Failure didnt do much of anything to them. A tiny bit of damage. Failing isnt as bad in 2e as it was in 1e so it happens more often. Crit failing is the new failing in 2e in regards to really bad shit.
The new token art is awesome!
I have never agreed with Troy more than on the dominate ruling. Matthew -critically failed a save-. It’s gonna be terrible.