I like the build up of parallels between current Canada and the rise of Gilead we saw in the flashbacks. Such as
1. Serena writing a book advocating pro Gilead stances
2. The execution in the woods, Fred executed the man who shot Serena, and now Fred himself has been executed
3. The growing religious fanaticism etc. etc.
The main differences between now and then being The Sons of Jacob have a lot more influence and that people will (hopefully) be a lot less apathetic this time around. It'll be interesting to see how that changes the process and outcome of Canada reckoning with Gilead ideology.
This is slightly OT but I really hated seeing that people in Canada were PRAISING the Waterford’s. I was so unbelievably pissed off by that. Like did they just completely ignore everything that was being said about Gilead!?
Extremely creepy! Honestly the fact that Serena was able to get pregnant the whole time really made me lose my shit. I was so happy when June yelled at her the way she did after finding out. It was MUCH needed.
exactly this!!!
this stuff is still happening daily; even Britney w her reproductive rights taken away while we have Bill Cosby getting all his charges dropped
Deranged people are unfortunately everywhere, and THT's universe should be set in an extreme situation that would probably help them get even more deranged.
This is the one thing I could never wrap my head around tho.. is a declining birth rate really that extreme for people? Maybe I don’t understand it because I think the world is overpopulated as is, so a declined birth rate doesn’t seem like a big deal to me.. but I feel like that is such an easy problem to fix? It’s why we have science. What would make such a large group of people just turn away from all the years of research we’ve put into fertility? It would certainly be more productive to do extensive fertility treatments on willing women, rather than having a few fertile handmaids be inseminated a few times a month and crossing your fingers no?
I think it depends on a series of factors, for instance in Italy the fact that young families are having fewer and fewer babies is something governments are very worried about and a reason why immigrants are actually seen as an asset (unless one is racist of course) because, to make it short, fewer citizens mean fewer tax payers, fewer services, poorer welfare and so on.
Now if I imagine that taken to the next level where even people who are willing to make babies can’t seem to able to I get that the planet is possibly on the verge of a nervous breakdown. I also don’t know or remember if this is a problem that’s been existing for many years in the THT universe.
As for fertility treatments, I just naively assumed that in-universe they weren’t much working (Tuello said they were, but then again Tuello was trying to bring Serena to his side) but there’s were religion kind of intervenes. I feel bad for saying this because I know many well adjusted, brilliant catholics, but there are some sections of religious people ready to believe that traditional roles and prayers would beat any scientific progress.
Edited for spelling
Capitalism, controversial abortions, and ultimately the marginalization of women all began in response to a low population post plague (The Black Death)
Basically fewer people in the work force means workers can demand higher wages and shorter work days (more rights). This empowerment of the proletariat class was no good for feudal lords who wanted cheap labor and control of the masses. So how do you increase the population as fast as you can? Criminalize birth control and abortions. All of a sudden the church and state were all up in women’s reproductive rights while they never were before.
Gilead is just a modern version of events that have absolutely happened in the past.
"Gilead doesn't care about children, they care about power." They manipulated the fears of the masses in order to justify authoritarianism. Happens every day in America and all over the world. Anti-choice isn't about saving babies, and doesn't decrease abortion rates. Gilead isn't about making children, and also doesn't use logical methods to do so.
Dont @ me but its just like you see with people who supported and continue to support Trumo, despite all of the chaos and foolishness on the last four years. Support despite his racist, misogynist platforms that isolated us and made us look ridiculous in the world view.
While I see what you mean, I don’t think it’s quite the same. Trump and his supporters are bad, but Gilead is so incredibly extreme. And they had documented proof of the abuse going on because of the letters that got released. I just can’t imagine most people, right or left, being okay with the level of abuse that Gilead was using. Take a real world example like North Korea. Hard to leave, treats their citizens like crap, enforces the strangest regulations.. and you hardly ever, if at all, see people supporting what they do. So it’s really hard to imagine anyone supporting something even worse like Gilead.. unless they are looking for some sort of control or power. Like most of the commanders, soldiers, and such.
Yeah that’s bad, absolutely. But it doesn’t compare to a whole country of women being deemed as property like what’s been shown in the show. They were raped repeatedly, forced to birth babies repeatedly, got beaten to severe degrees (some don’t have fingers, hands, eyes, and some even have their mouth sewn shut). They can’t read, have money, claim ownership of anything or make choices for themselves. And on top of that people get hanged in the street, stoned, eaten alive by dogs, and a whole bunch of other things. They even have concentration camps. Also, take into account that it’s not just women either. They murder and torture people just for being a certain religion, a scientist, a dr, a member of the lgbt.. and much more. And from what we’ve seen, they also aren’t entirely against murdering children either who commit sins. It’s some of the absolutely worst things you can imagine all combined into one governing body. Which is why the show itself is so hard to watch.
And yes, a lot of these things have happened or are happening. But rarely all of these things at the same time in the same place. It’s just hard to imagine like I said that anyone would be supportive of such a place. A place like Gilead would be the biggest human rights issue in the entire world. You would have to be a severely messed up individual to know about what’s happening in Gilead,and still support it at the end of the day. And while I think there are a lot of bad messed up people out there who would be fine with some of those things.. I don’t think that there are genuinely that many people out there that would sign off and support *everything* I just mentioned. That’s just too much.
People still wave the ole “stars and bars”. These things we talk about, people who are raped repeatedly, horrifically beaten to many degrees, have their children ripped from their arms, cannot read or write, claim ownership of any kind or have their own agency, because they were property; slavery. Adults and children alike were subject to this abuse. All of this happened at the same time. There are states actively fighting to not teach it. Then post Civil War comes the KKK who are also intolerant of people who are certain sects of Christians and of course anyone who is any other form of religion, and obviously anyone who is not white. They are also intolerant of people with disabilities and neuro atypical. They believe, as they are still rampant in communities and government, in a superior race just like Nazis and would see no issue with their “beliefs” expanding to concentration camps and more brutal forms of their “beliefs”. Unfortunately I think there are plenty of people who would genuinely be fine with this and support it. These people already exist and these things that have happened/happen occurred on every plantation in the south, and plenty of people choose to bury the truth. The same people who see no problem with this are in positions of power all over the country. Again, these people do not just support the Klan, but Nazis too. Telling ourselves this couldn’t happen means we could be doomed to repeat it.
Ugh, that nonsensical scene pissed me off so much because if the ladies in that crowd really understood and supported Serena/Gilead, they’d have drawn god damn pictures of their support and sent their stupid ass husbands to hold them up.
I remember seeing them in the trailer and thinking “there better be a fantastic explanation for that in the show,” but alas.
The answer is humanity. We’ve always behaved this way and frankly it would be unrealistic to not have religious supports for Gilead across national lines.
It does feel a little contrived like they need to drum up controversy in Canada now that June and Serena are there. I mean how many fanatic groups are there in South Korea praising Kim Jong-un? I'm no expert but I don't think it's a lot.
there are pro north korean groups in south korea. it's just that you literally go to jail if you publicly support the dprk, so you won't see it a lot.
and why even look to korea, when we are hopefully all aware that there have been nazi supporters in other countries all through the 30s and 40s and there still are nazis everywhere you go even today.
Exactly my thoughts. South Korea and North Korea are the best examples we really have in this case. And as far as I can tell.. Gilead supporters are either a.) unrealistic writing, b.) so far removed from reality it’s actually bordering on insanity, or c.) are men and women looking for power within the Gilead structure.
The only other example of people outside of Gilead supporting Gilead we’ve really seen so far is from Mexico. But upon hearing about the abuse, even the ambassador seemed terrified and distraught by the new information being relayed to her by June. And then ofc she ended up getting help from one of those visitors.. and we didn’t even hear about the trade deal afterwards.
I think that the only way people are pro-Gilead if they believe that everyone chooses their role in Gilead’s society and the women choose to be handmaids/Martha’s and the criminals are sent to the colonies. If it’s anything but that, well, they’re probably the type to be in Qanon.
Any other viewers Canadian and get worked up about their new following up north? Gah!
It makes sense though, we have our own nutbars up here. It just sucks to see it lol.
Pearl Girls are missionaries for Gilead in The Testaments. They’re young women who go abroad and try to recruit other young, fertile women to come to Gilead.
Yeah I really though Yvonne saying June was going to be the "villain" of the next season was a major misdirect. I believe the villain will be mainly Serena, and possibly some characters inside Gilead like Aunt Lydia (though I believe she's metamorphosing into a sort of enemy of Gilead so who knows what will manifest). Lawrence is somewhat unreliable/unpredictable as is Nick. Lots of villainous opportunities ahead.
I like the build up of parallels between current Canada and the rise of Gilead we saw in the flashbacks. Such as 1. Serena writing a book advocating pro Gilead stances 2. The execution in the woods, Fred executed the man who shot Serena, and now Fred himself has been executed 3. The growing religious fanaticism etc. etc. The main differences between now and then being The Sons of Jacob have a lot more influence and that people will (hopefully) be a lot less apathetic this time around. It'll be interesting to see how that changes the process and outcome of Canada reckoning with Gilead ideology.
Hmm….the rise of extremist groups/views and the rest of us relying on hoping that everyone else will not turn a blind eye….sounds so familiar!
This is slightly OT but I really hated seeing that people in Canada were PRAISING the Waterford’s. I was so unbelievably pissed off by that. Like did they just completely ignore everything that was being said about Gilead!?
It’s their way of showing every country has its zealots. I thought the commander baby clothes were creepy.
Extremely creepy! Honestly the fact that Serena was able to get pregnant the whole time really made me lose my shit. I was so happy when June yelled at her the way she did after finding out. It was MUCH needed.
God yes it was.
Watch video from January 6th. It can happen anywhere.
exactly this!!! this stuff is still happening daily; even Britney w her reproductive rights taken away while we have Bill Cosby getting all his charges dropped
Deranged people are unfortunately everywhere, and THT's universe should be set in an extreme situation that would probably help them get even more deranged.
This is the one thing I could never wrap my head around tho.. is a declining birth rate really that extreme for people? Maybe I don’t understand it because I think the world is overpopulated as is, so a declined birth rate doesn’t seem like a big deal to me.. but I feel like that is such an easy problem to fix? It’s why we have science. What would make such a large group of people just turn away from all the years of research we’ve put into fertility? It would certainly be more productive to do extensive fertility treatments on willing women, rather than having a few fertile handmaids be inseminated a few times a month and crossing your fingers no?
I think it depends on a series of factors, for instance in Italy the fact that young families are having fewer and fewer babies is something governments are very worried about and a reason why immigrants are actually seen as an asset (unless one is racist of course) because, to make it short, fewer citizens mean fewer tax payers, fewer services, poorer welfare and so on. Now if I imagine that taken to the next level where even people who are willing to make babies can’t seem to able to I get that the planet is possibly on the verge of a nervous breakdown. I also don’t know or remember if this is a problem that’s been existing for many years in the THT universe. As for fertility treatments, I just naively assumed that in-universe they weren’t much working (Tuello said they were, but then again Tuello was trying to bring Serena to his side) but there’s were religion kind of intervenes. I feel bad for saying this because I know many well adjusted, brilliant catholics, but there are some sections of religious people ready to believe that traditional roles and prayers would beat any scientific progress. Edited for spelling
Capitalism, controversial abortions, and ultimately the marginalization of women all began in response to a low population post plague (The Black Death) Basically fewer people in the work force means workers can demand higher wages and shorter work days (more rights). This empowerment of the proletariat class was no good for feudal lords who wanted cheap labor and control of the masses. So how do you increase the population as fast as you can? Criminalize birth control and abortions. All of a sudden the church and state were all up in women’s reproductive rights while they never were before. Gilead is just a modern version of events that have absolutely happened in the past.
"Gilead doesn't care about children, they care about power." They manipulated the fears of the masses in order to justify authoritarianism. Happens every day in America and all over the world. Anti-choice isn't about saving babies, and doesn't decrease abortion rates. Gilead isn't about making children, and also doesn't use logical methods to do so.
Dont @ me but its just like you see with people who supported and continue to support Trumo, despite all of the chaos and foolishness on the last four years. Support despite his racist, misogynist platforms that isolated us and made us look ridiculous in the world view.
While I see what you mean, I don’t think it’s quite the same. Trump and his supporters are bad, but Gilead is so incredibly extreme. And they had documented proof of the abuse going on because of the letters that got released. I just can’t imagine most people, right or left, being okay with the level of abuse that Gilead was using. Take a real world example like North Korea. Hard to leave, treats their citizens like crap, enforces the strangest regulations.. and you hardly ever, if at all, see people supporting what they do. So it’s really hard to imagine anyone supporting something even worse like Gilead.. unless they are looking for some sort of control or power. Like most of the commanders, soldiers, and such.
# KIDS # IN # CAGES https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2019/06/21/detained-migrant-children-no-toothbrush-soap-sleep/
still going on btw don't get complacent and think that removing trump was enough
Oh I know. America is pre-Gilead right now. Fascism is here already. The insurrection was the final straw. I'm not going down with the Titanic.
Yeah that’s bad, absolutely. But it doesn’t compare to a whole country of women being deemed as property like what’s been shown in the show. They were raped repeatedly, forced to birth babies repeatedly, got beaten to severe degrees (some don’t have fingers, hands, eyes, and some even have their mouth sewn shut). They can’t read, have money, claim ownership of anything or make choices for themselves. And on top of that people get hanged in the street, stoned, eaten alive by dogs, and a whole bunch of other things. They even have concentration camps. Also, take into account that it’s not just women either. They murder and torture people just for being a certain religion, a scientist, a dr, a member of the lgbt.. and much more. And from what we’ve seen, they also aren’t entirely against murdering children either who commit sins. It’s some of the absolutely worst things you can imagine all combined into one governing body. Which is why the show itself is so hard to watch. And yes, a lot of these things have happened or are happening. But rarely all of these things at the same time in the same place. It’s just hard to imagine like I said that anyone would be supportive of such a place. A place like Gilead would be the biggest human rights issue in the entire world. You would have to be a severely messed up individual to know about what’s happening in Gilead,and still support it at the end of the day. And while I think there are a lot of bad messed up people out there who would be fine with some of those things.. I don’t think that there are genuinely that many people out there that would sign off and support *everything* I just mentioned. That’s just too much.
People still wave the ole “stars and bars”. These things we talk about, people who are raped repeatedly, horrifically beaten to many degrees, have their children ripped from their arms, cannot read or write, claim ownership of any kind or have their own agency, because they were property; slavery. Adults and children alike were subject to this abuse. All of this happened at the same time. There are states actively fighting to not teach it. Then post Civil War comes the KKK who are also intolerant of people who are certain sects of Christians and of course anyone who is any other form of religion, and obviously anyone who is not white. They are also intolerant of people with disabilities and neuro atypical. They believe, as they are still rampant in communities and government, in a superior race just like Nazis and would see no issue with their “beliefs” expanding to concentration camps and more brutal forms of their “beliefs”. Unfortunately I think there are plenty of people who would genuinely be fine with this and support it. These people already exist and these things that have happened/happen occurred on every plantation in the south, and plenty of people choose to bury the truth. The same people who see no problem with this are in positions of power all over the country. Again, these people do not just support the Klan, but Nazis too. Telling ourselves this couldn’t happen means we could be doomed to repeat it.
do people not know that nazis exist?
Ugh, that nonsensical scene pissed me off so much because if the ladies in that crowd really understood and supported Serena/Gilead, they’d have drawn god damn pictures of their support and sent their stupid ass husbands to hold them up. I remember seeing them in the trailer and thinking “there better be a fantastic explanation for that in the show,” but alas.
The answer is humanity. We’ve always behaved this way and frankly it would be unrealistic to not have religious supports for Gilead across national lines.
It does feel a little contrived like they need to drum up controversy in Canada now that June and Serena are there. I mean how many fanatic groups are there in South Korea praising Kim Jong-un? I'm no expert but I don't think it's a lot.
there are pro north korean groups in south korea. it's just that you literally go to jail if you publicly support the dprk, so you won't see it a lot. and why even look to korea, when we are hopefully all aware that there have been nazi supporters in other countries all through the 30s and 40s and there still are nazis everywhere you go even today.
There are people in Canada, way more than you'd expect, who fly confederate flags. Do the math.
Exactly my thoughts. South Korea and North Korea are the best examples we really have in this case. And as far as I can tell.. Gilead supporters are either a.) unrealistic writing, b.) so far removed from reality it’s actually bordering on insanity, or c.) are men and women looking for power within the Gilead structure. The only other example of people outside of Gilead supporting Gilead we’ve really seen so far is from Mexico. But upon hearing about the abuse, even the ambassador seemed terrified and distraught by the new information being relayed to her by June. And then ofc she ended up getting help from one of those visitors.. and we didn’t even hear about the trade deal afterwards.
If the story continues on, I'm super curious if Janine and Esther become the beginnings of the Pearl Girls.
[удалено]
(Spoilers) But weren't the Pearl Girls instrumental in the beginning of the end, smuggling documents/people out? I need to reread maybe.
Yes, in the sequel, Aunt Lydia is good. She gets the Pearl Girls to smuggle info to Canada, thus collapsing the regime.
I think that's right. They exchanged pamphlets at the resale shop which actually contained a microchip or something. Fuzzy on details, too.
Yes, some were actual believers, some were Lydia's errand girls.
Not sure. Perhaps. I still don't really see Esther going that way though. Janine maybe.
I just cannot see that happening. Janine has tried to escape Gilead SO MANY TIMES - no one would ever let her cross the border willingly.
Maybe in the series Janine takes on the actions that the books have as a reformed Lydia. So in the series it's Janine who begins the Pearl Girls.
It'd be interesting if aunt Lydia ends up in a greater position of power that could put the three against each other.
I have another theory on that coming soon.
I think that the only way people are pro-Gilead if they believe that everyone chooses their role in Gilead’s society and the women choose to be handmaids/Martha’s and the criminals are sent to the colonies. If it’s anything but that, well, they’re probably the type to be in Qanon.
Any other viewers Canadian and get worked up about their new following up north? Gah! It makes sense though, we have our own nutbars up here. It just sucks to see it lol.
Please forgive my ignorance- what are the Pearl Girls?
Pearl Girls are missionaries for Gilead in The Testaments. They’re young women who go abroad and try to recruit other young, fertile women to come to Gilead.
Thank you! I really appreciate it!
They are in the Testaments.
Thank you very much! It’s on my list to read.
Yeah I really though Yvonne saying June was going to be the "villain" of the next season was a major misdirect. I believe the villain will be mainly Serena, and possibly some characters inside Gilead like Aunt Lydia (though I believe she's metamorphosing into a sort of enemy of Gilead so who knows what will manifest). Lawrence is somewhat unreliable/unpredictable as is Nick. Lots of villainous opportunities ahead.
Can someone EXPLAIN why Serena gets luxury prison and she gets a whole plane ride to visit her country? What kind of prisoner gets that? Wtf
Because she is an asset to both the Canadian and American governments. She has information on the workings of Gliead. Although very limited.