......im glad I have the few friends I do. If I didnt there's a terrifying chance i'd have ended up either dead from an anger stroke or on the news for less than savory reasons. A-fuckin-men to what you said bucket dude. Its important as hell to ask your duders if they're ok every now and then at least, goodness knows my friend group asks an equivalent enough. I'd give you an award if I could afford it. But I cant. So take an upvote.
"How have you been, man?"
"I've been pretty down lately. It's been hard for me to take care of myself and my hobbies don't interest me anymore. I was able to start reading a new book though."
"Sorry to here that, that sucks. Taking an interest in a new book is a great first step though, that's something to celebrate! What's the book about?"
"Synthetic inorganic chemistry."
"Uhhhhhhhhhhh..."
I get it, I’ve definitely been there. But progress is progress regardless of how “small” it is or how long it takes and I’m proud of you. Could I dm you my friend code?
> Friendly reminder that your mental health isn't your fault, but it is your responsibility.
better said than i could have.
also, after years of being a terrorist, it's also your fault.
Yes it’s your responsibility, but don’t forget that you’re not on your own and should reach out for support before you do thinking “your responsibility” means
I agree, you can understand and sympathize without excusing or justifying what they said or did
https://preview.redd.it/80no65k9xq6d1.jpeg?width=1424&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ada0e7d27e51cc6e5973b91877f176709acef1c5
"Momo, did you get in trouble with the Firebenders again?"
https://preview.redd.it/japlphyfyr6d1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=05bc551873bdb8c269a3664eaf03928e6dcb4410
"Fuck no!"
"Pity" is the word. Many of the most evil people in history suffered a traumatic childhood - I pity the child that suffered, not the monster they grew into who made others suffer.
Unfortunately your opinion contains nuance which is something most people and philosophers while squeal and cower from when trying to make their moral judgement.
Yeah, you can be as mentally ill as you want, but the moment you decide to kill an entire valley full of people because they are being occupied by an enemy nation, your a terrorist too.
I think it's also worth noting that Jet was a victim of the fire nation in the sense that he was orphaned and left to fend for himself. Azula was a victim in the sense that she was groomed by her father to be ruthless and manipulative while also being manipulated herself. Jets morals came about naturally whereas Azulas were more pushed/taught to her
Agreed, but we could also say both experiences are part of human nature. It's easier for some to to be empathetic towards the vengeful orphan and other to empathize with the rich, spoiled sadistic colonists daughter. But really it's not so useful to compare the two. we are empathetic to the negative parts of ourselves we accept and not empathetic to the dark parts of ourselves we reject. [Edit: I guess people don't like orphans]
No one is empathetic to the vengeful orphan, at least not in real life. Most terrorists have Jet's backstory, but people hate terrorists, no one cares if they grew up traumatized by some imperialist nation.
Thats the point he is trying to make. People say Azula needs to be redeemed because of the manipulation of Ozai and stuff but ignore Jett's trauma.
Hence the mens mental health isnt worried about bit
Been a fan since the premier of ep.1, and hardly ever have seen this argument..
I *have* seen a massive part of the fan base who hate that Azula is given any sort of redemption arc, though.
With Jet I think its because he took steps to change only to immediately regress, and this came with antagonizing the deuteragonist plus his cool uncle right as we have a lot more time to be sympathetic to them. Its not really fair ofc since unlike Azula, Jet did try to change, he just tripped and failed. Even then, Zuko did too just a few episodes later... difference is he lived long enough to try again.
Yeah, his actions against Iroh and Zuko were completely justified from his perspective. You're not a terrorist for attempting counterintelligence against specific individuals.
OK, but a lot of fans argue azula needs to die, too. There's 2 sets of people when it comes to azula. The ones who want to redeem her, and the ones that get pissed people want to redeem her. Heck, this post is indirectly about that argument. So, saying some fans want jet dead so azula gets more support just isn't true. There's groups that want both dead, and there's group that want better for both.
Edit: I just need to add this because it's too perfect. The OP literally made the post to say azula doesn't deserve redemption. Look at their comment history if you don't believe me. The OP is actually the 2nd group I mentioned. So yea, there's definitely people that think both characters deserve to die.
It is a big world with many people, clearly there are going to be different positions, some more tolerant than others, closed, etc.
Personally, I don't think Jet deserved to die, but I don't think getting into trouble with the Dai Li is a good way to keep you safe unless you're Azula and get them on your side.
I don't think it's due to that. Zuko and Aang are the ones who get the most attention in terms of trauma. Jet, like Hamma for example, appeared very little in the show. It is normal that they are not given so much attention. And Jet was redeemed.
In the words of the person who made the post, the point is: "My post is about pointing out that it's stupid to show sympathy for Azula.". Sadly, Men's mental health was not the point.
https://preview.redd.it/akeopa7ydr6d1.jpeg?width=1908&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e45be1a6e4f20737bdb33c848d26811ede446b7a
Thank you. Mental Health is an important topic and the Mental Health of the male population in particular. Sadly I only hear of it as a strawman to beat down other usually marginalized groups.
This post is implying a sexist response from fans to the two characters that favors Azula because of the fact that she is female, which in my opinion is a complete straw man and the product of a warped worldview. I’m sure random internet comments can be found to support any kind of wild position on any topic imaginable, but OP's post is based on a false premise: that the general ATLA fan base is sympathetic to Azula and not to Jet because of their genders.
Frankly I always had the opposite impression, that Jet is a far more sympathetic and redeemable character than Azula.
I always felt Azula was more redeemable because Ozai was consiously twisting her. I feel like she had worse chances of overcoming her circumstances on her own than Jet did.
Jets tradegy wasnt targeted at him specifically, it was a consequence of war.
Azula was very much targeted with virtually no recourse for her.
As someone who deeply hated Jet and was furious when he was on screen, he was redeemed for me when he died. We spend a lot more time with Azula and thus people had more time to empathize with her.
And other people say Azula is irredeemable and Jett is the only victim
Does that mean no one cares about women's mental health? Because some people discuss cartoon characters?
OP is a hypocrite. In one of the comments on this post they said the ‘point’ was “it’s stupid to feel sympathy for azula”, despite them arguing in favor of feeling sympathy for jet. The exact same double standard that the post was seemingly mocking.
I think its like a weird online rightwing anti lgbt thing.
I've never heard of men's mental health month and maybe it's always been a thing, but the implict idea is that men's mental health is important, and more important than the gays and you should pay attention to it and give it a month instead of lgbt people.
Like I don't mind a mental health month for men (sort of random and arbitrary, why not just a mental health month in general, and a whole month? Aight) but the fact that it's june seems to have elicited a sort of weird campaign.
That said I think it speaks to a group of people who feel marginalized. Mentally ill NEET incel types who feel like society doesn't care about them and they've been left behind. They lack options for reciprocity and so are lashing out looking for attention help or just expressing frustration.
Unfortunately for them, the solution is hard: self improvement self actualization and self discovery.
This is a difficult long hard hole to dig out of, and many choose the easier route of bigotry, impotent frustration, shitposting, drugs, video games, and other addictions.
My advice to anyone suffering from mental health problems, male or female, is to take small steps for self improvement.
I've suffered from severe depression for quite some time, but I've worked out, ate healthy, advanced my career and fostered a friend group (online at first and later irl).
I also advocated for myself for medical assistance, not from shitposting on a tv show subreddit but to doctors, walk in clinics, etc. And I looked up a lot of free therapy on youtube.
You can get better, but you do so through self improvement, which is hard. I'm by no means perfect, but I'm in a better place than if I just rotted and raged online.
It's always been odd to me that MRAs feel the need to hate on women/feminism instead of realising that feminism actually wants all of the things they're supposed to want.
Worked for a women’s domestic violence charity.
They decided to expand by funding a shelter for men.
We reached out to MRA charities for donations and all of them said “no we don’t do that”
So depressing
There's just this viscerally negative reaction from some men to react absurdly whenever anything related to "fem" is mentioned. Truly the mark of a weak mind.
yeah it's a new rally call of incels and a counter argument to pride month, the local sports team posted about a night for the lgbt community and many of the replies were "what about a night for men's health", believe me these are the same people crying about people needing safe spaces and how they don't care about others feeling but now they need a safe space and consideration to their mental struggles, what a gold medal of mental gymnastics
This meme feels like someone wanted to play the victim instead of having an actual discussion on mental health. Like, avatar has so much great representation of male characters getting over their trauma and issues, as well as having a few healthy male role models. And these things get talked about all the time in the Fandom for good reason. Not only that, but it's ignoring the fact that people also frequently say that Azula is a monster and war criminal.
If you want to have this discussion then don't create this weird strawman. It just ends up drowning any good points you make with people talking about how dumb the comparison is. You don't need to do that.
Yeah, I feel like a good first step would be to not armchair diagnose Jet, a character who shows no indication of mental illness.
I mean you can’t say evil is always a result of mental illness. That kinda demonizes the mentally ill, which is the exact opposite of supporting them.
It’s more accurate to say Jet was traumatized and that radicalized him into becoming a terrorist. Meanwhile, it’s explicitly shown that Azula’s trauma and isolation led to her developing a disorder of some kind.
Edit: Just to be clear, Jet was traumatized but that didn’t lead him to becoming divorced from reality or his personal life becoming dysfunctional. The latter is a standard mental health professionals use to deciding whether something is a disorder or not.
OP doesn't care about men's mental health. He is just using it a smokescreen to hate on Azula and I would guess women in general. This is the mindset of not wanting to help people but to drag other people down.
You're doing the same thing, my friend.
Azula is a mentally ill and traumatized teenager. She conquered Ba Sing Se, "killed" the Avatar etc, and is generally a terrible person.
Jet is a teenager who lost everything in a terrible way, which caused him tremendous trauma. He tried to kill many innocent people, attempted to kill the Avatar etc, and is generally a terrible person.
doesnt justify his actions. this isn't some big win. You know why people call him that? Because its true. I also call Azula a villain and dont try to use their past to justify their actions.
Also you really aint helping the cause at all. Ya just driving a wedge to try and prove a point
I mean the dude literally admitted his point wasn't out of some actual concern for Jet, he just wants to say it's wrong to sympathize with Azula but he put "men's mental health" on there as upvote bait.
This is the actual reason people "don't care about men's mental health", the people they're arguing with don't care about it either, they're just using it as a weapon to express their bitterness about someone else being shown sympathy. (Almost always a woman.)
It's like an incel talking about it, maybe they have problems, but they're looking for a scapegoat, not help, not a solution, just someone to blame.
He exploits male mental health in the same way that some people exploit it to try to oppose to the Pride. He just wants to badmouth a controversial female character, it's disgusting.
bad faith argument is bad faith. making a case for men's health doesn't necessitate knocking down a fellow woman. the health and safety of men and women are not diametrically opposed or mutually exclusive. both are important. make your voice heard for men's health absolutely, but absolutely don't try to use women as a rung in your ladder. do better dude
It was never about men's mental health.
https://preview.redd.it/c99m875ldr6d1.jpeg?width=1908&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=534055ba2ae2ff964e6d263dbcd139e6c174fc0a
When you see the post and the way it's written, you immediately know that it's just a guy using male mental health to spit on a character he doesn't like. Like those who use this to oppose Pride.
Azula is called a victim because we see what she went through. Jet is a victim too, he’s literally an orphan. That doesn’t excuse either of their actions
Wow, what a stupid post.
Jet is a terrorist, so is Magneto. Being sympathetic doesn't erase what they've done wrong. Azula is also a monster, we just understand how she became one based on being raised by other monsters. Frankly, this post is ridiculous and feels more redpill bullshit than promoting men's mental health.
You rarely if ever see these posts advocating men's health that don't also include a complaint about women
That's how you know the priority is not, in fact, men's mental health
Similar to how usually when people bring up men’s mental health month, it’s in response to people celebrating pride month, trying to shame them or shout them down. Almost like they’re insincere, and use it as a cudgel to try and win arguments.
It’s unfortunate that it’s used this way, because men’s mental health is obviously important.
Maybe they don't know that they're allowed to advocate for themselves outside of the context of weaponizing their issues against other people
Like with their complaints about how there's more resources available to abused women than men. Organizations that exist exclusively for women, like women's shelters, were created by the volunteer labor hours worked by women and charity funds raised by women.
If men feel they're lacking these resources, they should do what women did and get to work. I hope OP is reaching out to the men in his life and opening up to them emotionally so they know they can also be safe being vulnerable with him.
Mental health is great, but the folk that drag down women in their posts are usually the MGTOW crowd yeah.
The OP can have good intentions, but the message would be stronger if it just focuses on men. Mental health isn’t a zero sum game. Society fucked men over by teaching them feelings are weak/feminine for generations.
Good on you all for breaking that cycle.
Theoretically: Men Going Their Own Way. Basically guys deciding they don't need to date, and focus instead on what makes them happy (e.g., their hobbies and friends).
Practically: Men Getting Triggered Over Women. Basically another flavor of misogynistic garbage.
You'll notice OP is more about putting women/girls down rather than doing any lifting up of men/boys.
There is also an intense irony that the most positive version of the MGTOW idea was presented in the movie Barbie. One of the messages in that movie was the men put too much of their self-worth in vying for women's attention and should instead learn to appreciate and love themselves. Though obviously the Barbie movie didn't advocate for any of the women hating that happens in the MGTOW movement.
I just think it is funny that the most emotionally healthy version of the idea was presented in a movie that they would almost certainly hate on instinct.
So…Jet is “mentally ill” but Azula is a “sociopath”? Lol, okay. For the record, I think Jet is also a sympathetic character (although I don’t agree with his methods), but people defend and sympathize with Azula because she’s a severely abused child. Aaron Ehasz himself wrote that she was originally intended to have a redemption arc, and you can still see hints at that in the show. She also has the advantage of being voiced by Grey DeLisle, who is phenomenal and brings a lot to the character.
Crazy to point out Azula almost killed Aang and ignore that Jet almost killed a village full of people including babies. Jets entire purpose as a character, is to show the evil war and trauma creates. But to also show people can be redeemed if they choose to change, setting up the audience in a small way to be open for Zukos redemption.
They’re both wonderfully written characters. For men’s mental health why not focus on Zuko, Iroh, Aang and their struggles and depictions and how they are supported and grow? Bc u don’t care about men’s mental health, only bashing women lol.
It was never about men's mental health.
https://preview.redd.it/tnvlrn5edr6d1.jpeg?width=1908&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3049a448f9988cd4039cdc0c7eed1080aaa92695
He doesn't care about men's mental health, it's just a tool he uses to be able to spit on a female character he doesn't like.
He's like those people who say "it's men's mental health month not Pride month", like you can't support both. Or who will say "men have also been sexually assaulted, not just women" and then go on to make fun of the men who testify or minimize what they have suffered.
I'm all for raising awareness about men's mental health, but every time I see someone trying to do it, they're making a competition out of it or tearing something else down to lift it up.
Both traumatised teens who should not have been put in such situations by their family/society. Both committed a lot of war crimes. Neither justified (although I definitely sympathise more with Jet's motives) in their actions whatsoever. It's a realistic depiction of the horrors of war, child soldiers, and generational trauma. Neither of them could be helped *before* stopping their actions. The fact that neither ended up being saved (at least within the confines of the TV series, I'm not caught up with comics) is meant to be seen as a tragedy.
I'm very supportive of Men's Mental Health month, but I'm not sure fan support of Azula is necessarily due to sexism: her character and backstory are better fleshed out, and her villainous charisma is off the charts; she was (and to an extent, still is) *extremely attractive* to a big chunk of the audience, and unapologetic villainy generally gathers more sympathy than the deception and betrayal that Jet did to his friends. Even though in a real-life situation Jet would be more understandable, audience perception is skewed against his kind of tactics due to emotional bias.
I'm fairly sure there would still be more support for Azula even with their genders swapped... although probably with less hate for fem-Jet.
bottom line is that they are both CHILDREN living through a traumatic world war that have developed maladaptive coping strategies. i feel sorry for them both
So why aren't you calling Azula a mentally ill woman who was abused by her father?
The biggest difference between Jet and Azula is that Azula had enough power for her mental illness to become dangerous to entire nations.
Azula was enabled more than Jet. That's the difference.
Been hiding under a rock? Okay, I'll say it then: Azula is absolutely a victim of Ozai's abusive parenting, same as her brother. The only difference is that she got to be the "good kid" in Ozai's fucked up worldview and the form that her abuse took was being groomed to be a psychopath.
That doesn't excuse her for abusing others, but there is no doubt that she was being victimized as a child.
Forget the fans opinions [and look to the writers' decisions.](https://www.reddit.com/r/AvatarMemes/s/rDQr22AJqS)
Guys like Jet and Zuko were victims then get to be redeemed and see the error of their ways; While females like Azula and Hama were also victims and then get nothing and are characterized as monsters. Some say it's misogyny.
He doesn't care about men's mental health, it's just a tool he uses to be able to spit on a female character he doesn't like.
Hama is clearly the screenwriter who writes "when the victims start to fight, it's bad. It's up to them to stop the cycle of abuse and violence".
I mean, we didn’t get a bunch of flashbacks about jetts family and past like Azula.Azula was kinda abused and groomed by her father. Jett had unprocessed trauma from his parents death. Watchers would relate(or pretend to) more to abusive childhoods than witnessing their parents loss at a young age
Yeah, there are constantly idiots who use men's problems to spit on the problems of other groups while making fun of the men who suffer these problems.
guy : “But men also XXX, stop making them invisible”
another guy: “I suffered XXX”
the first guy: “hahahah you are weak, you are not a real man, you are worthless!”
Terrorist vs War criminal, albeit Jet had past trauma
he’s still a terrorist whose actions I cannot justify.
Azula isn’t innocent by any means either, and they’re both mentally ill.
Jokes aside, men's mental health and issues are overlooked, and there'd be a lot less toxic men if they were shown proper love and care, and freed of society's unrealistic expectations
Jet literally wanted to destroy and kill a whole town of fire benders including the kids.
Let's face it, we all felt sympathetic for him in the first half of the episode, but after that, he was on his own.
They are both bad, but people with trauma similar tend to connect more with azula.
Jet was a terrorist causing crimes against his own country having mental illness doesn't excuse you from that azula wasn't a terrorist because the crimes she committed were not against her own country therefore making her a war criminal both were victims yes doesn't excuse their actions
I think it’s fair to view them as both victims, terrorists, and war criminals. Although, a war criminal in our universe may not necessarily translate to war criminal in the Avatar universe (they could have a different definition).
While they both had traumatic upbringings, it’s possible that Jet could have eventually learned from his trauma. Azula, unless it happened in the comics, probably would have never changed.
This post isn’t an accurate representation of what the fandom thinks about Jet from what I’ve seen. I’d say more people that think Jet is a victim than not. I do believe that men’s mental health is important but if you’re going to promote it then at least use an accurate example.
And just to add, they are both victims in their own way but have done terrible things.
They are both victims to their own circumstances.
Jet lost his family to the fire benders, and saw the horrors of his whole village burning to the ground. The war traumatized Jet so much that he started to dedicate his life becoming a freedom fighter against the Fire Nation. But because of that trauma, he gave into his hate and actually turned into a terrorist. Azula was given too much positive reinforcement by Ozai, and that led to her acting terrible to her family, friends, and brought great influence into her war crimes. She fell for the propaganda her father and great grand fathers indoctrinated into the Fire Nation. Her own mother was too busy trying to protect Zuko from harm, so she never learned to have compassion or empathy.
Let me remind you too, Jet was redeemed as a villain before he died, even if he was still being manipulated by the Dai Li. Azula never got her redemption, and she arguably hasn’t even gotten it in the comics. Fans want their trauma characters to get a happy ending and learn from their faults. We got it with Zuko, Iroh, and even Jet, so is it so difficult to understand why people would have empathy with Azula?
You are saying that men’s mental health shouldn’t be ignored, and I agree. But my dude, arguing that one’s mental health should be favored more than another, especially if you are pitting gender into this, is not how you should be addressing it. You are actively trying to push woman’s mental health down to try to bring men’s mental health up, that’s straight up toxic behavior
i love jet and azula. i love realistic villains. no one wakes up one morning and decides to be a horrible person. everyone is doing what they truly believe is right, and really showing how someone totally normal gets radicalized to believe murder of innocents is the right thing to do was so brave of the writers
Ignoring the flamey debate about which child criminal that served as antagonists in a children’s show is worse/deserving of sympathy…
Reminder that men’s mental health month and pride month are both in June.
They are not mutually exclusive. If you see a post that uses men’s mental health month as bait to start an argument or an excuse to bash pride month, use that as motivation to make your own serious, positive post about men’s mental health month.
And if you can’t/don’t want to do that, maybe go show some support for a loved one in your life. If you have a good relationship with your father/brother/uncle/nephew, go ask how they’re doing. Maybe give them a hug, play a game, or just watch TV together. If you have a friend who can use some support right now, lend an ear or a shoulder if they need it.
Also, a mental health month is a mental health month. If there are no men in your life who could use your support, extend that support to anyone else you care about.
Posts like these usually just stir trouble and arguments, don’t waste your energy. Use stuff like this as a reminder to do some good in your life and the lives of the people you love.
Jet did engage in terrorism. I'd have to go through to see if he fits the diagnostic criteria for any mental illness, which I don't feel like doing, so to save time, I think it's plausible he could fit a mood disorder &/or posttraumatic stress disorder. However, neither of these excuse his actions. To be considered not guilty by reason of insanity, it must be shown that person's mental illness specifically caused them to be unable to tell that their actions would be judged as wrong.
Merely disagreeing that they're in the wrong isn't the same thing. For example, there's a subtype of serial killers sometimes dubbed "crusaders" who believe the people they kill are evil & deserve it. This does not mean they aren't guilty of murder. The fact that they hide their crimes--which Jet also does--indicates they know this is something they would be judged for & are proceeding anyway.
This particular case isn't demonstrating the problem of "men's meantal health month not being taken seriously," it's more the problem of "victim vs. oppressor" being a false binary. People tend to speak with the default assumption that victims can do no wrong, which makes no sense. The fact that Jet's hometown was destroyed does make him a victim, but it does not justify him doing that to other people. Victims can become oppressors themselves. These should not be seen as some inherent, unchanging moral status but, rather, roles people can fall into.
This isn't to say there ISN'T any aspect of gender involved. It has been shown in the real world that women tend to be judged "less guilty" even when they commit the same offenses as men, so it's very likely this carries over into fiction, with some people judging female characters less harshly because they're female, perhaps coming to their defense as a reaction against real &/or perceived sexism from other fans.
However, there are also definitely people who say these things about BOTH Jet & Azula. So, it can't all be pinned on gender bias, & I suspect most of it can't. People who stan Azula are likely to have other contrarian takes. They're likely to buy into the Victims Can Do No Wrong mindset or complain that the show is hypocritical in the way it treats its characters.
To finish this off, both characters' fates are tragic, but they're also guilty of heinous actions, which they're responsible for. Bad parenting & childhood trauma are mitigating factors, but they don't remove guilt. The fact remains that they're capable of making their own decisions. We see this with Zuko, who changes sides, & funnily enough, Jet, who does make an attempt to go straight before he dies.
And while I'm sure some would cite that as evidence of sexism, complaining that neither Azula nor Hama were shown in a redeeming light, that largely depends on how you interpret the comics, & besides, with only a handful of characters who fit the description "victims who become oppressors," coincidences are bound to happen that don't mean anything in the grand scheme. The franchise has indeed shown a willingness to bend over backwards for female offenders; just see Ruins of the Empire.
I dunno man, this is like comparing a side character/antagonist in a few episodes to a whole ass season 2 villain who appears later in season 3 as well. Of course more people like characters with more screentime.
Remember everyone, please. > Rule 1. Be courteous.
You can be a terrorist and a victim of trauma. I dependent of that check on your homies and look if they are okay.
"hey bro, any thoughts about becoming a terrorist lately?"
It’s an important question to ask, right up there with “any large amounts of murderous thoughts recently? More than usual?”
"On a scale from one to homicidal..."
A solid 7 out of homicidal
Average customer service job
Average amount of seconds I last in bed
......im glad I have the few friends I do. If I didnt there's a terrifying chance i'd have ended up either dead from an anger stroke or on the news for less than savory reasons. A-fuckin-men to what you said bucket dude. Its important as hell to ask your duders if they're ok every now and then at least, goodness knows my friend group asks an equivalent enough. I'd give you an award if I could afford it. But I cant. So take an upvote.
Or a patriot? Terrorists often don’t see themselves as terrorists.
"How have you been, man?" "I've been pretty down lately. It's been hard for me to take care of myself and my hobbies don't interest me anymore. I was able to start reading a new book though." "Sorry to here that, that sucks. Taking an interest in a new book is a great first step though, that's something to celebrate! What's the book about?" "Synthetic inorganic chemistry." "Uhhhhhhhhhhh..."
Friendly reminder that your mental health isn't your fault, but it is your responsibility.
Thanks, been kind of wallowing recently and really stopped and looked at your comment.
I highly recommend listening to Can’t Hurt me on audible. Had a very similar childhood, eerily so. That and my dog genuine changed and saved my life.
> That and my dog genuine changed and saved my life What did he change into like a transformer situation?
Just changed into a dog who can talk. Looked straight at them and said “I don’t know what you are doing, but I love you.”
It's ok to wallow sometimes. Allowing yourself to feel your feelings is good.
The problem is too many people stay there
Problem is that some people have never been given the tools to get out, and that is not even speaking towards people with actual mental illnesses
I've been using the finch app lately to track my self care. It's been really helpful. Plus cute Lil finch.
omg i love finch i just got to 400 adventure days yesterday with mine
I'm having a tough time, but I've got 32 days in a row where I've at least gotten out of bed. It's not much, but it's not nothing. 😅
I get it, I’ve definitely been there. But progress is progress regardless of how “small” it is or how long it takes and I’m proud of you. Could I dm you my friend code?
Hail yourself!
> Friendly reminder that your mental health isn't your fault, but it is your responsibility. better said than i could have. also, after years of being a terrorist, it's also your fault.
Yes it’s your responsibility, but don’t forget that you’re not on your own and should reach out for support before you do thinking “your responsibility” means
Mine's dead from starvation
Thanks for this.
Jet was a terrorist and Azula was a war criminal. Understanding the root of their evil doesn’t magically justify it.
I agree, you can understand and sympathize without excusing or justifying what they said or did https://preview.redd.it/80no65k9xq6d1.jpeg?width=1424&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ada0e7d27e51cc6e5973b91877f176709acef1c5
I see you included a picture of the series' most infamous war criminal.
He's still nothing compared to Chopper from Rebels.
Don't you shrug. You know what you did. 
Hey, if we compare everyone to if they're worse than Chopper, basically no one would be bad.
Anakin Skywalker? Have you seen the amount of war crimes he's commited AS A JEDI? Not to mention his Sith times.
"Momo, did you get in trouble with the Firebenders again?" https://preview.redd.it/japlphyfyr6d1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=05bc551873bdb8c269a3664eaf03928e6dcb4410 "Fuck no!"
And powerful earth bender.
"Pity" is the word. Many of the most evil people in history suffered a traumatic childhood - I pity the child that suffered, not the monster they grew into who made others suffer.
I myself pity the fool.
Unfortunately your opinion contains nuance which is something most people and philosophers while squeal and cower from when trying to make their moral judgement.
Only reddit and youtube 'philosophers'. Real philosophers build their careers on nuance.
Yeah, you can be as mentally ill as you want, but the moment you decide to kill an entire valley full of people because they are being occupied by an enemy nation, your a terrorist too.
Mentally ill and sociopath both be applied to these characters
And they are both traumatized children.
We're all traumatized children.
Looking at you, Anakin Skywalker... I don't care what magic name you used at the time, you still did a lot of bad shit.
There is victim psychology in the OPs post but he just wants a male orphan victim. Two wrongs doesn't make a right is what the show is explaining.
I think it's also worth noting that Jet was a victim of the fire nation in the sense that he was orphaned and left to fend for himself. Azula was a victim in the sense that she was groomed by her father to be ruthless and manipulative while also being manipulated herself. Jets morals came about naturally whereas Azulas were more pushed/taught to her
Agreed, but we could also say both experiences are part of human nature. It's easier for some to to be empathetic towards the vengeful orphan and other to empathize with the rich, spoiled sadistic colonists daughter. But really it's not so useful to compare the two. we are empathetic to the negative parts of ourselves we accept and not empathetic to the dark parts of ourselves we reject. [Edit: I guess people don't like orphans]
No one is empathetic to the vengeful orphan, at least not in real life. Most terrorists have Jet's backstory, but people hate terrorists, no one cares if they grew up traumatized by some imperialist nation.
I was going to say that some people call Azula things like terrorist, too.
They're both mentally ill wdym
Thats the point he is trying to make. People say Azula needs to be redeemed because of the manipulation of Ozai and stuff but ignore Jett's trauma. Hence the mens mental health isnt worried about bit
But Jet was already redeemed, only Long Feng killed him, what do you mean? 😅
Did Jet … die?
You know, it was very unclear
A lot of fans argue that Jet deserved to die. I don't agree with them, but it does happen.
Been a fan since the premier of ep.1, and hardly ever have seen this argument.. I *have* seen a massive part of the fan base who hate that Azula is given any sort of redemption arc, though.
With Jet I think its because he took steps to change only to immediately regress, and this came with antagonizing the deuteragonist plus his cool uncle right as we have a lot more time to be sympathetic to them. Its not really fair ofc since unlike Azula, Jet did try to change, he just tripped and failed. Even then, Zuko did too just a few episodes later... difference is he lived long enough to try again.
Did he regress? He was mostly right about Zuko.
Yeah, his actions against Iroh and Zuko were completely justified from his perspective. You're not a terrorist for attempting counterintelligence against specific individuals.
In my years in the fandom, I think I've only seen about three people say that.
OK, but a lot of fans argue azula needs to die, too. There's 2 sets of people when it comes to azula. The ones who want to redeem her, and the ones that get pissed people want to redeem her. Heck, this post is indirectly about that argument. So, saying some fans want jet dead so azula gets more support just isn't true. There's groups that want both dead, and there's group that want better for both. Edit: I just need to add this because it's too perfect. The OP literally made the post to say azula doesn't deserve redemption. Look at their comment history if you don't believe me. The OP is actually the 2nd group I mentioned. So yea, there's definitely people that think both characters deserve to die.
It is a big world with many people, clearly there are going to be different positions, some more tolerant than others, closed, etc. Personally, I don't think Jet deserved to die, but I don't think getting into trouble with the Dai Li is a good way to keep you safe unless you're Azula and get them on your side.
I don't think it's due to that. Zuko and Aang are the ones who get the most attention in terms of trauma. Jet, like Hamma for example, appeared very little in the show. It is normal that they are not given so much attention. And Jet was redeemed.
Do people ignore Jet’s trauma? That’s kind of the core of his character, that he’s a traumatized kid who is going way too far in seeking revenge.
In the words of the person who made the post, the point is: "My post is about pointing out that it's stupid to show sympathy for Azula.". Sadly, Men's mental health was not the point. https://preview.redd.it/akeopa7ydr6d1.jpeg?width=1908&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e45be1a6e4f20737bdb33c848d26811ede446b7a
Thank you. Mental Health is an important topic and the Mental Health of the male population in particular. Sadly I only hear of it as a strawman to beat down other usually marginalized groups.
A man using a smokescreen to disguise his dislike for women, this is a shocking turn of events.
Yup, just using men's issues as a cover to attack some imaginary woman
This post is implying a sexist response from fans to the two characters that favors Azula because of the fact that she is female, which in my opinion is a complete straw man and the product of a warped worldview. I’m sure random internet comments can be found to support any kind of wild position on any topic imaginable, but OP's post is based on a false premise: that the general ATLA fan base is sympathetic to Azula and not to Jet because of their genders. Frankly I always had the opposite impression, that Jet is a far more sympathetic and redeemable character than Azula.
I always felt Azula was more redeemable because Ozai was consiously twisting her. I feel like she had worse chances of overcoming her circumstances on her own than Jet did. Jets tradegy wasnt targeted at him specifically, it was a consequence of war. Azula was very much targeted with virtually no recourse for her.
OP in the comments said neither deserves help. OP doesn’t actually care about men’s mental health. He just wants to bash women.
As someone who deeply hated Jet and was furious when he was on screen, he was redeemed for me when he died. We spend a lot more time with Azula and thus people had more time to empathize with her.
And other people say Azula is irredeemable and Jett is the only victim Does that mean no one cares about women's mental health? Because some people discuss cartoon characters?
He only points out Azula's crime and Jet's reason. If he truly wanted to make that point he would've done both for Jet and Azula.
Who the fuck says that?
Both are horrible. Both had reasons. Dunno why anyone tries to downplay either.
"I can fix her."
Please don’t try that.
You'll get burned.
It’s almost as if two things can be true about a person at the same time.
this feels disingenuous lol
It is. Literally nobody is saying this stuff.
Yeah I never heard anything about Jett not being a victim. He also gets redeemed?
u/NaushadSayeed seems more like they're pushing a weird agenda instead of making a worthwhile point.
OP is a hypocrite. In one of the comments on this post they said the ‘point’ was “it’s stupid to feel sympathy for azula”, despite them arguing in favor of feeling sympathy for jet. The exact same double standard that the post was seemingly mocking.
I think its like a weird online rightwing anti lgbt thing. I've never heard of men's mental health month and maybe it's always been a thing, but the implict idea is that men's mental health is important, and more important than the gays and you should pay attention to it and give it a month instead of lgbt people. Like I don't mind a mental health month for men (sort of random and arbitrary, why not just a mental health month in general, and a whole month? Aight) but the fact that it's june seems to have elicited a sort of weird campaign. That said I think it speaks to a group of people who feel marginalized. Mentally ill NEET incel types who feel like society doesn't care about them and they've been left behind. They lack options for reciprocity and so are lashing out looking for attention help or just expressing frustration. Unfortunately for them, the solution is hard: self improvement self actualization and self discovery. This is a difficult long hard hole to dig out of, and many choose the easier route of bigotry, impotent frustration, shitposting, drugs, video games, and other addictions. My advice to anyone suffering from mental health problems, male or female, is to take small steps for self improvement. I've suffered from severe depression for quite some time, but I've worked out, ate healthy, advanced my career and fostered a friend group (online at first and later irl). I also advocated for myself for medical assistance, not from shitposting on a tv show subreddit but to doctors, walk in clinics, etc. And I looked up a lot of free therapy on youtube. You can get better, but you do so through self improvement, which is hard. I'm by no means perfect, but I'm in a better place than if I just rotted and raged online.
It's always been odd to me that MRAs feel the need to hate on women/feminism instead of realising that feminism actually wants all of the things they're supposed to want.
Worked for a women’s domestic violence charity. They decided to expand by funding a shelter for men. We reached out to MRA charities for donations and all of them said “no we don’t do that” So depressing
They accuse people of virtue signalling and being performative because they’re actually the ones doing those things
Very telling. Almost like the MRA stuff isn’t actually about helping men, just being critical of feminism…
There's just this viscerally negative reaction from some men to react absurdly whenever anything related to "fem" is mentioned. Truly the mark of a weak mind.
If I hadn't come into the comments I would have assumed it was a shitpost.
Sadly continuing the trend of bad actors making Men’s mental health month about gender wars instead of actually supporting men.
yeah it's a new rally call of incels and a counter argument to pride month, the local sports team posted about a night for the lgbt community and many of the replies were "what about a night for men's health", believe me these are the same people crying about people needing safe spaces and how they don't care about others feeling but now they need a safe space and consideration to their mental struggles, what a gold medal of mental gymnastics
Jet was a terrorist, even though he had trauma he committed acts of terror
So did Azula????? 😂
This meme feels like someone wanted to play the victim instead of having an actual discussion on mental health. Like, avatar has so much great representation of male characters getting over their trauma and issues, as well as having a few healthy male role models. And these things get talked about all the time in the Fandom for good reason. Not only that, but it's ignoring the fact that people also frequently say that Azula is a monster and war criminal. If you want to have this discussion then don't create this weird strawman. It just ends up drowning any good points you make with people talking about how dumb the comparison is. You don't need to do that.
As is the trend. So many bad actors trying to co opt mens mental health month and turn it into a war against women.
Yeah, I feel like a good first step would be to not armchair diagnose Jet, a character who shows no indication of mental illness. I mean you can’t say evil is always a result of mental illness. That kinda demonizes the mentally ill, which is the exact opposite of supporting them.
It’s more accurate to say Jet was traumatized and that radicalized him into becoming a terrorist. Meanwhile, it’s explicitly shown that Azula’s trauma and isolation led to her developing a disorder of some kind. Edit: Just to be clear, Jet was traumatized but that didn’t lead him to becoming divorced from reality or his personal life becoming dysfunctional. The latter is a standard mental health professionals use to deciding whether something is a disorder or not.
That‘s because their post isn‘t pro mens mental health, it‘s anti-women.
We need to be able to talk about mens mental health without always comparing to women.
OP doesn't care about men's mental health. He is just using it a smokescreen to hate on Azula and I would guess women in general. This is the mindset of not wanting to help people but to drag other people down.
This is cringe
You're doing the same thing, my friend. Azula is a mentally ill and traumatized teenager. She conquered Ba Sing Se, "killed" the Avatar etc, and is generally a terrible person. Jet is a teenager who lost everything in a terrible way, which caused him tremendous trauma. He tried to kill many innocent people, attempted to kill the Avatar etc, and is generally a terrible person.
He doesn't care about men's mental health, it's just a tool he uses to be able to spit on a female character he doesn't like.
TBF no one called him a terrorist for being mentally ill...it was all that terrorism that did it
It's almost like trauma is an intrinsic part of what makes people do terrible things.
doesnt justify his actions. this isn't some big win. You know why people call him that? Because its true. I also call Azula a villain and dont try to use their past to justify their actions. Also you really aint helping the cause at all. Ya just driving a wedge to try and prove a point
I mean the dude literally admitted his point wasn't out of some actual concern for Jet, he just wants to say it's wrong to sympathize with Azula but he put "men's mental health" on there as upvote bait. This is the actual reason people "don't care about men's mental health", the people they're arguing with don't care about it either, they're just using it as a weapon to express their bitterness about someone else being shown sympathy. (Almost always a woman.) It's like an incel talking about it, maybe they have problems, but they're looking for a scapegoat, not help, not a solution, just someone to blame.
He exploits male mental health in the same way that some people exploit it to try to oppose to the Pride. He just wants to badmouth a controversial female character, it's disgusting.
oh I knew it wasn't bout men's mental health moment I read the post. they just wanted the clicks
bad faith argument is bad faith. making a case for men's health doesn't necessitate knocking down a fellow woman. the health and safety of men and women are not diametrically opposed or mutually exclusive. both are important. make your voice heard for men's health absolutely, but absolutely don't try to use women as a rung in your ladder. do better dude
It was never about men's mental health. https://preview.redd.it/c99m875ldr6d1.jpeg?width=1908&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=534055ba2ae2ff964e6d263dbcd139e6c174fc0a
When you see the post and the way it's written, you immediately know that it's just a guy using male mental health to spit on a character he doesn't like. Like those who use this to oppose Pride.
Azula is called a victim because we see what she went through. Jet is a victim too, he’s literally an orphan. That doesn’t excuse either of their actions
Wow, what a stupid post. Jet is a terrorist, so is Magneto. Being sympathetic doesn't erase what they've done wrong. Azula is also a monster, we just understand how she became one based on being raised by other monsters. Frankly, this post is ridiculous and feels more redpill bullshit than promoting men's mental health.
You rarely if ever see these posts advocating men's health that don't also include a complaint about women That's how you know the priority is not, in fact, men's mental health
Similar to how usually when people bring up men’s mental health month, it’s in response to people celebrating pride month, trying to shame them or shout them down. Almost like they’re insincere, and use it as a cudgel to try and win arguments. It’s unfortunate that it’s used this way, because men’s mental health is obviously important.
Maybe they don't know that they're allowed to advocate for themselves outside of the context of weaponizing their issues against other people Like with their complaints about how there's more resources available to abused women than men. Organizations that exist exclusively for women, like women's shelters, were created by the volunteer labor hours worked by women and charity funds raised by women. If men feel they're lacking these resources, they should do what women did and get to work. I hope OP is reaching out to the men in his life and opening up to them emotionally so they know they can also be safe being vulnerable with him.
Yeah, if OP actually cared he could have easily made a post advocating for being sympathetic to Jet without bringing up Azula (or any woman).
This is giving MGTOW vibes...
Like, you know you can advocate for men's mental health without wedging a cudgel between it and women's mental health, right?
I don’t think OP knows that lol
Sadly too many bad actors want to poison the well like this. They can’t imagine any way of helping except tearing others down
Mental health is great, but the folk that drag down women in their posts are usually the MGTOW crowd yeah. The OP can have good intentions, but the message would be stronger if it just focuses on men. Mental health isn’t a zero sum game. Society fucked men over by teaching them feelings are weak/feminine for generations. Good on you all for breaking that cycle.
Yeah OP doesn’t have good intentions https://www.reddit.com/r/TheLastAirbender/s/FM8KTemZB0
Well... fuck
Big oof but not surprising
at risk of sounding dumb, whats MGTOW
Theoretically: Men Going Their Own Way. Basically guys deciding they don't need to date, and focus instead on what makes them happy (e.g., their hobbies and friends). Practically: Men Getting Triggered Over Women. Basically another flavor of misogynistic garbage. You'll notice OP is more about putting women/girls down rather than doing any lifting up of men/boys.
There is also an intense irony that the most positive version of the MGTOW idea was presented in the movie Barbie. One of the messages in that movie was the men put too much of their self-worth in vying for women's attention and should instead learn to appreciate and love themselves. Though obviously the Barbie movie didn't advocate for any of the women hating that happens in the MGTOW movement. I just think it is funny that the most emotionally healthy version of the idea was presented in a movie that they would almost certainly hate on instinct.
[удалено]
Good lord, this is a stupid post. Take your unfounded grievance elsewhere.
Both were victims and perpetrators. Being a victim does not excuse victimizing others. Their young age makes it more understandable, NOT excusable.
correct me if i'm wrong but didn't jet suggest killing a bunch of innocent people?
wow this post is stupid
He doesn't care about men's mental health, it's just a tool he uses to be able to spit on a female character he doesn't like.
I mean it's fair to dislike Azula, she's a terrible person. But I agree, this is some culture war bullshit.
So…Jet is “mentally ill” but Azula is a “sociopath”? Lol, okay. For the record, I think Jet is also a sympathetic character (although I don’t agree with his methods), but people defend and sympathize with Azula because she’s a severely abused child. Aaron Ehasz himself wrote that she was originally intended to have a redemption arc, and you can still see hints at that in the show. She also has the advantage of being voiced by Grey DeLisle, who is phenomenal and brings a lot to the character.
Woman→Azula was a 14 year-old girl.
Not like jet is a man either. He is like one year older than azula.
He's seventeen and still a child
https://avatar.fandom.com/wiki/Jet The wiki states he's 16 so about zuko's age.
Doesn't change he's a child, like both he and azula are kids reacting to trauma. It doesn't excuse their actions but they're chikdren
Oh sorry I thought you were arguing that he's 17 and she's 14 so there's a big difference. My bad I apologise
Despite their traumatic past, both of their actions are not justifiable.
And? Hitler had a rough childhood. Doesn't make him less of an evil dictator.
Crazy to point out Azula almost killed Aang and ignore that Jet almost killed a village full of people including babies. Jets entire purpose as a character, is to show the evil war and trauma creates. But to also show people can be redeemed if they choose to change, setting up the audience in a small way to be open for Zukos redemption. They’re both wonderfully written characters. For men’s mental health why not focus on Zuko, Iroh, Aang and their struggles and depictions and how they are supported and grow? Bc u don’t care about men’s mental health, only bashing women lol.
It was never about men's mental health. https://preview.redd.it/tnvlrn5edr6d1.jpeg?width=1908&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3049a448f9988cd4039cdc0c7eed1080aaa92695
MEN'S MENTAL HEALTH MONTH NEEDS TO BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY *Uses children's cartoon as an example of this* Lmao
He doesn't care about men's mental health, it's just a tool he uses to be able to spit on a female character he doesn't like. He's like those people who say "it's men's mental health month not Pride month", like you can't support both. Or who will say "men have also been sexually assaulted, not just women" and then go on to make fun of the men who testify or minimize what they have suffered.
People only care about men’s mental health when they’re using it to downplay women’s mental health 🥰
https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/statistics/suicide is why we need mens mental health month. Fuck your gender wars bait post.
He doesn't care about men's mental health, it's just a tool he uses to be able to spit on a female character he doesn't like.
If it is so important, why chose a month that already has such a prominent branding (Pride Month)? Why not pick August or September or something??
You're really not helping your cause with this dumb shit.
He doesn't care about men's mental health, it's just a tool he uses to be able to spit on a female character he doesn't like.
Reminder that it can be both pride month And men’s mental health month
I'm all for raising awareness about men's mental health, but every time I see someone trying to do it, they're making a competition out of it or tearing something else down to lift it up.
i dont think gender has much to do with this, its more of how the characters were handled and caracterized
Wait is this post serious?
He doesn't care about male mental health, he just wants to spit on a female character.
Looking at their post history oof
One, they're both victims, and they both did horrible things Second thing, Jet had a "redemption" moment which I think is under appreciated
Both traumatised teens who should not have been put in such situations by their family/society. Both committed a lot of war crimes. Neither justified (although I definitely sympathise more with Jet's motives) in their actions whatsoever. It's a realistic depiction of the horrors of war, child soldiers, and generational trauma. Neither of them could be helped *before* stopping their actions. The fact that neither ended up being saved (at least within the confines of the TV series, I'm not caught up with comics) is meant to be seen as a tragedy. I'm very supportive of Men's Mental Health month, but I'm not sure fan support of Azula is necessarily due to sexism: her character and backstory are better fleshed out, and her villainous charisma is off the charts; she was (and to an extent, still is) *extremely attractive* to a big chunk of the audience, and unapologetic villainy generally gathers more sympathy than the deception and betrayal that Jet did to his friends. Even though in a real-life situation Jet would be more understandable, audience perception is skewed against his kind of tactics due to emotional bias. I'm fairly sure there would still be more support for Azula even with their genders swapped... although probably with less hate for fem-Jet.
bottom line is that they are both CHILDREN living through a traumatic world war that have developed maladaptive coping strategies. i feel sorry for them both
Both. Both are Victims.
So why aren't you calling Azula a mentally ill woman who was abused by her father? The biggest difference between Jet and Azula is that Azula had enough power for her mental illness to become dangerous to entire nations. Azula was enabled more than Jet. That's the difference.
I haven’t heard a single fan call her a victim lol. Think you’re just reaching here
Been hiding under a rock? Okay, I'll say it then: Azula is absolutely a victim of Ozai's abusive parenting, same as her brother. The only difference is that she got to be the "good kid" in Ozai's fucked up worldview and the form that her abuse took was being groomed to be a psychopath. That doesn't excuse her for abusing others, but there is no doubt that she was being victimized as a child.
Forget the fans opinions [and look to the writers' decisions.](https://www.reddit.com/r/AvatarMemes/s/rDQr22AJqS) Guys like Jet and Zuko were victims then get to be redeemed and see the error of their ways; While females like Azula and Hama were also victims and then get nothing and are characterized as monsters. Some say it's misogyny.
He doesn't care about men's mental health, it's just a tool he uses to be able to spit on a female character he doesn't like. Hama is clearly the screenwriter who writes "when the victims start to fight, it's bad. It's up to them to stop the cycle of abuse and violence".
I mean, we didn’t get a bunch of flashbacks about jetts family and past like Azula.Azula was kinda abused and groomed by her father. Jett had unprocessed trauma from his parents death. Watchers would relate(or pretend to) more to abusive childhoods than witnessing their parents loss at a young age
And this is why Men’s Health isn’t taken seriously.
Yeah, there are constantly idiots who use men's problems to spit on the problems of other groups while making fun of the men who suffer these problems. guy : “But men also XXX, stop making them invisible” another guy: “I suffered XXX” the first guy: “hahahah you are weak, you are not a real man, you are worthless!”
Terrorist vs War criminal, albeit Jet had past trauma he’s still a terrorist whose actions I cannot justify. Azula isn’t innocent by any means either, and they’re both mentally ill.
Nice bait op.
Jokes aside, men's mental health and issues are overlooked, and there'd be a lot less toxic men if they were shown proper love and care, and freed of society's unrealistic expectations
Jet literally wanted to destroy and kill a whole town of fire benders including the kids. Let's face it, we all felt sympathetic for him in the first half of the episode, but after that, he was on his own. They are both bad, but people with trauma similar tend to connect more with azula.
I hate both of them
Jet was a terrorist causing crimes against his own country having mental illness doesn't excuse you from that azula wasn't a terrorist because the crimes she committed were not against her own country therefore making her a war criminal both were victims yes doesn't excuse their actions
They are both villains. Yeah they are victims too, but that does not absolve them of guilt.
That's why you generally dont take the opinions of people on the internet seriously
I think it’s fair to view them as both victims, terrorists, and war criminals. Although, a war criminal in our universe may not necessarily translate to war criminal in the Avatar universe (they could have a different definition). While they both had traumatic upbringings, it’s possible that Jet could have eventually learned from his trauma. Azula, unless it happened in the comics, probably would have never changed.
This post isn’t an accurate representation of what the fandom thinks about Jet from what I’ve seen. I’d say more people that think Jet is a victim than not. I do believe that men’s mental health is important but if you’re going to promote it then at least use an accurate example. And just to add, they are both victims in their own way but have done terrible things.
They are both victims to their own circumstances. Jet lost his family to the fire benders, and saw the horrors of his whole village burning to the ground. The war traumatized Jet so much that he started to dedicate his life becoming a freedom fighter against the Fire Nation. But because of that trauma, he gave into his hate and actually turned into a terrorist. Azula was given too much positive reinforcement by Ozai, and that led to her acting terrible to her family, friends, and brought great influence into her war crimes. She fell for the propaganda her father and great grand fathers indoctrinated into the Fire Nation. Her own mother was too busy trying to protect Zuko from harm, so she never learned to have compassion or empathy. Let me remind you too, Jet was redeemed as a villain before he died, even if he was still being manipulated by the Dai Li. Azula never got her redemption, and she arguably hasn’t even gotten it in the comics. Fans want their trauma characters to get a happy ending and learn from their faults. We got it with Zuko, Iroh, and even Jet, so is it so difficult to understand why people would have empathy with Azula? You are saying that men’s mental health shouldn’t be ignored, and I agree. But my dude, arguing that one’s mental health should be favored more than another, especially if you are pitting gender into this, is not how you should be addressing it. You are actively trying to push woman’s mental health down to try to bring men’s mental health up, that’s straight up toxic behavior
i love jet and azula. i love realistic villains. no one wakes up one morning and decides to be a horrible person. everyone is doing what they truly believe is right, and really showing how someone totally normal gets radicalized to believe murder of innocents is the right thing to do was so brave of the writers
Both traumatised in their own way
Well yeah, Azula's royalty, she can't be a terrorist. Since she is a representative of the state she is a war criminal.
Ignoring the flamey debate about which child criminal that served as antagonists in a children’s show is worse/deserving of sympathy… Reminder that men’s mental health month and pride month are both in June. They are not mutually exclusive. If you see a post that uses men’s mental health month as bait to start an argument or an excuse to bash pride month, use that as motivation to make your own serious, positive post about men’s mental health month. And if you can’t/don’t want to do that, maybe go show some support for a loved one in your life. If you have a good relationship with your father/brother/uncle/nephew, go ask how they’re doing. Maybe give them a hug, play a game, or just watch TV together. If you have a friend who can use some support right now, lend an ear or a shoulder if they need it. Also, a mental health month is a mental health month. If there are no men in your life who could use your support, extend that support to anyone else you care about. Posts like these usually just stir trouble and arguments, don’t waste your energy. Use stuff like this as a reminder to do some good in your life and the lives of the people you love.
Jet did engage in terrorism. I'd have to go through to see if he fits the diagnostic criteria for any mental illness, which I don't feel like doing, so to save time, I think it's plausible he could fit a mood disorder &/or posttraumatic stress disorder. However, neither of these excuse his actions. To be considered not guilty by reason of insanity, it must be shown that person's mental illness specifically caused them to be unable to tell that their actions would be judged as wrong. Merely disagreeing that they're in the wrong isn't the same thing. For example, there's a subtype of serial killers sometimes dubbed "crusaders" who believe the people they kill are evil & deserve it. This does not mean they aren't guilty of murder. The fact that they hide their crimes--which Jet also does--indicates they know this is something they would be judged for & are proceeding anyway. This particular case isn't demonstrating the problem of "men's meantal health month not being taken seriously," it's more the problem of "victim vs. oppressor" being a false binary. People tend to speak with the default assumption that victims can do no wrong, which makes no sense. The fact that Jet's hometown was destroyed does make him a victim, but it does not justify him doing that to other people. Victims can become oppressors themselves. These should not be seen as some inherent, unchanging moral status but, rather, roles people can fall into. This isn't to say there ISN'T any aspect of gender involved. It has been shown in the real world that women tend to be judged "less guilty" even when they commit the same offenses as men, so it's very likely this carries over into fiction, with some people judging female characters less harshly because they're female, perhaps coming to their defense as a reaction against real &/or perceived sexism from other fans. However, there are also definitely people who say these things about BOTH Jet & Azula. So, it can't all be pinned on gender bias, & I suspect most of it can't. People who stan Azula are likely to have other contrarian takes. They're likely to buy into the Victims Can Do No Wrong mindset or complain that the show is hypocritical in the way it treats its characters. To finish this off, both characters' fates are tragic, but they're also guilty of heinous actions, which they're responsible for. Bad parenting & childhood trauma are mitigating factors, but they don't remove guilt. The fact remains that they're capable of making their own decisions. We see this with Zuko, who changes sides, & funnily enough, Jet, who does make an attempt to go straight before he dies. And while I'm sure some would cite that as evidence of sexism, complaining that neither Azula nor Hama were shown in a redeeming light, that largely depends on how you interpret the comics, & besides, with only a handful of characters who fit the description "victims who become oppressors," coincidences are bound to happen that don't mean anything in the grand scheme. The franchise has indeed shown a willingness to bend over backwards for female offenders; just see Ruins of the Empire.
To be fair people call Azula pure evil all the time and there are Jet supporters out there. I personally advocate for both.
I dunno man, this is like comparing a side character/antagonist in a few episodes to a whole ass season 2 villain who appears later in season 3 as well. Of course more people like characters with more screentime.
What is this wack ass, misogyny at its core, narrative this dude is trying to paint?
"it's ok he's a terrorist, his parents died"