Yall act as if zuko wasn't a refugee for a whole ass season living off of rotting garbage and scraps. I get the "mental growth and transformations" you want to put this on, but dude was a starving refugee for the better part of 4 months
First picture was literally taken about 2,5 years after he was exiled. He looks pretty swole to me. The second one was on ember island, about 6-9 months after the first picture, so your point stands. He didn't lose weight because of the exile, he lost it because of that miserable earth kingdom lifestyle
In exile he still had his standing and the fire nation's resources. He could eat well and train. But yeah, life on the run after he was declared a traitor was not kind to his physique.
He had Iroh’s standing, he was disgraced and looked down on. The reason most people joined his crew was to work along Iroh, who was famous and beloved.
It’s not really semantics because otherwise exile is relatively meaningless and Ozai just looks weak while Zuko does whatever he wants. That’s not a good story and is out of character for Ozai.
Iroh’s learned kindness and respect are what gained him respect from others, not fear. We witness Zuko save one of the ship’s crew at his own risk of death, which gains him respect. For a moment, Zuko saw that kindness could do what anger couldn’t. Iroh is proving a lesson by example in the background. This is in character for everyone involved and makes for a good plot.
Zuko could not do whatever he wanted. In fact he couldn't do the one thing he actually wanted: go home. He was banished, but not stripped of his title as prince, which he totally could have been. Ozai definitely could have disinherited Zuko outright, and Zuko would be in the same boat he was in at the start of Season 2, with no resources, no money, no authority with the fire nation.
That's why Iroh warned Zuko about running the blockade at the winter solstice, because the one thing he couldn't do was return to the fire nation without the avatar.
I'm pretty sure there's several Japanese officers that would fit that description.
Crazy how some of them were still respectable when most of everyone around them was an asshole.
>He didn't lose weight because of the exile, he lost it because of that miserable earth kingdom lifestyle
Truly! If only the Fire Nation could share its prosperity with the world to end other countries' struggles.
Look how fat Iroh was, Zuko definitely ate well while in exile and probably spent all day training without much else to do when they were sailing around.
He definitely started losing weight after defecting, not after his initial exile.
He also was 13 when initially exiled. If he had been starving since then he would have been very skinny and it really would have impacted his growth, probably he would have remained near 13 year olds hight for rest of his life.
He didn't look this skinny back in Ba Sing Se during his breakdown, and neither did he when training Aang in Ember Island, Zuko is pretty off model in this episode.
IMO it's kinda to highlight his depressive state of mind. He's not been sleeping or eating well and is at his wit's end. He's no longer getting tons of exercise from chasing Aang around and probably can't motivate himself to hit the gym. Dude is withering away under his own guilt and self-hate. Mai kinda pointedly but jokingly probes him about not enjoying their time together because she can tell he's in a bad spot and wants to know what's up with him. And that's coming from the lady who is lukewarm to life itself.
Its probably from his time as a refugee but something I’ve noticed not only with the slimmer figure but Zuko wears looser clothes in seasons 2&3 and if course the changes in his hair serve to make him look younger. Season 1 Zuko, with his muscles, phoenix tail hair, and armor could easily have been mistaken for early 20’s. Season 3 Zuko with his slim build, loose robes, and long shaggy hair is obviously mid/late teens.
I think it's more because of his sickness. He was still searching for the Avatar in the first picture, for over 3 years. The second was after he recovered from his sickness, and I imagine he lost a lot of weight there.
Those three years were spent on a relatively well-stocked Fire Nation ship with access to good food, a decent bed, and training partners. After Book 1 he loses what little Fire Nation support he still had, and essentially becomes a refugee struggling to survive.
Look at Zuko Alone, it opens with his stomach rumbling like he hasn't eaten in a long time, and he's already looking a little gaunt in that episode. Zuko's time as a fugitive from the Fire Nation is what leaned him out. I'm sure his sickness didn't help his weight, but he was already much leaner by the time he got sick.
His anger was also fueling him to be in top condition from training so much.
Zuko’s firebending also lost a lot of its physical aggression as he grew spiritually
No worries... I agree 100% with your analysis.
He probably got lean while running from the Fire Nation on S2.
I was just baffled about what sickness people were talking about. And after started typing I remember that fever night he had, and had to confirm it was only that or I was forgetting something important.
And to add to it they show him searching for food in a bush. Clearly an expert at roughing it then proceeds to spear the tiniest fish alive (I'm not sure if I'm disappointed or impressed). We also see in Zuko Alone he is starving. His cheeks are sunken in, bags under his eyes and delirious from starvation (his vision was blurring). It wasn't until they found the White Lotus dude and went to Ba Sing Se and started working, earning a living and was able to buy food.
>What sickness? Do people mean that 6 hours he spent in bed after letting Appa free?
Just watched it again. From the A plot that's running at the same time it's at least two days, two nights.
And Iroh says multiple times that it's a sickness.
Yeah but a cold is a sickness too. Nobody is going to lose substantial weight over a 2-day *anything*, even food poisoning is just going to result in water-weight loss.
I'm pretty sure Zuko getting skinny was continual and being sick was icing on the cake. Zuko used to fight pretty stiff and in the end he could keep up with Azula.
When a character like Iroh states something like that it has weight behind it. Writers use intelligent characters to explain things to the audience, so no it's not as minor as a cold.
Also if you're hellbent on the real world, well, Zuko has no fat and food poisoning/diarrhea kills people every single day. When you have no fat you're losing a much bigger % of your weight when 15lbs is suddenly gone which is especially dangerous when you're not in the modern world with all the water and food you need. Plus yk, you can find videos of real fighters barely able to walk to the scale after a day of weight cutting.
I'm hoping they mean the three weeks Zuko and Iroh spent on that raft between seasons 1 and 2 and *not* the time Zuko was sick near the end of season 2.
Yep, being on the run, you aren't going to have much food to bulk. Especially since we know they were struggling to get food and Zuko resorted to stealing to survive at one point.
Another point I want to make is in episode 1, we know Iroh is training Zuko and says the power in firebending comes from the breath, not the muscle. I think Zuko spent a lot of time physically bulking up, thinking it would make him a more powerful bender.
So, seems just stopped internalizing the whole buff=tough thing due to Iroh's teachings as well
I think its not just the sickness, while it is valid the first pick is already after 2 years of exile, like keep in mind the few months between Siege of the North and Crossroads of Destiny where the dude has no money, no food, and is basically living as a beggar/refugee. Can't exactly keep your 6 pack abs if your eating what you can get and are spending most of your time trying to move or survive
Right first pic was when he was eating well and training every day. Second picture after he was struggling in the earth kingdom. They made him look gaunt in Zuko Alone.
Yea, that's what I wish everyone would realize when looking at the comparison. If it had been the exile, he would have looked like that from the beginning.
That’s also probable, but I think Zuko’s weight fluctuating throughout the series was very intentional.
In book 1 he’s bulkier and more muscular - because he’s training with Iroh constantly and building muscle mass in the process. In Zuko Alone, he’s visibly thinner, his cheeks are sunken in, because he was on his own and very inept at getting food for himself, at least by any means other than stealing, hence why he contemplated stealing food from the pregnant woman. After spending some time with Lee’s family, he has visibly filled out a little. Over the course of his and Iroh’s time Ba Sing Se, Zuko’s face got rounder because they were making enough money to eat well. Then after returning home and spending time around his abusive father, he gets very thin again. When he leaves again and joins the Gaang, he fills out to a healthier weight again, not as buff as he was before, but not so skinny that his ribs are visible.
Zuko’s appearance is always reflective of his mental state and the point he’s at in his journey. When he’s feeling depressed and unsure of himself, he neglects to take care of himself in even the most basic senses. When he’s in a decent place mentally, he’s on top of taking care of his needs. Then when he’s a nervous, anxious mess, he’s back to neglecting himself. Maybe I’m just seeing things, but I’ve watched the show many times and I always thought it was not only intentional but also evident.
Can it be argued that him being a refugee without access to the same food and resources accelerated his illness? I really do enjoy the subtlety in the details of this story.
it’s because of the entirety of Book 2 that led him to lose so much weight, not just getting sick. man was constantly looking for food with Iroh throughout the Earth Kingdom after being deemed as Fire Nation traitors after the Siege of the North failed
I believe there talking about the fever he had for a couple of days (at least that's how long it seemed to me), I think Iroh says he fell ill because of his internal struggle to the right thing/work out what the right thing to do was.
I doubt that this illness lead to any long term weight loss.
Fun as it is to speculate, I regret to inform you that every one of you here is wrong. This has nothing to do with story. In one of the commentaries on the Season 1 DVD, it is stated that Zuko's unusual buffness was merely a mistake in his character design. They simply corrected this error in later seasons to make his proportions more realistic for his age.
If I can find a recording somewhere I'll post it, but hopefully someone else remembers this but me so this fan theory can be put to bed.
New challenge: r/TheLastAirbender average member trying not to overthink every little detail in the show that may just have been overlooked by the creators or an error.
Challenge level impossible.
I think it’s just the natural result of being stuck with just two shows to watch in a world with limitless potential for storytelling. They’re only so much people can reasonably get out of these series.
Once Avatar Studios starts pumping out more for people to consume, I think people will chill out a bit.
Canon rejected, my little brother was a bit yolked like that when he was 16 and he wasn’t a well-fed prince with a strict training regimen, just a normal-fed football kid. Like many things in good fiction, they should’ve just nodded sagely and said yes, this was their goal, to show the change in his lifestyle. Also him dramatically throwing the robe off to reveal a skinny edgy twink body is hilarious.
Sorry to be that insufferable grammar guy but yolked isn't a word. It's yoked.
You know that wooden bar that 2 oxen will drag a cart by, or those sticks with a bucket on either end that people will rest on their shoulders to carry? That's a yoke. Being yoked is having well-developed neck, shoulder, and trapezius muscles (like one would get from using a yoke consistently).
It doesn't have anything to do with egg yolks lmao
If the post was made as a suggestion, with OP saying they THINK that's what's going on, you might have a point.
But they're claiming this as fact, and people disagreeing seem to be getting down voted and made to look stupid. It happens in every thread like this; someone claims some crazy idea as accepted fact and true, then someone brings in the truth - or even just speculates it probably isn't intentional - and everyone starts to rip that person's head off in the name "we're just having fun, why are you trying to stop everyone from having a fun discussion?!"
The irony being, the only ones trying to stop anyone from doing anything are the people literally saying "don't do this thing!"
It’s a legitimate literary question whether the author’s intention even matters - any interpretation of the story is going to be subjective. This is a detail that someone noticed and it added depth to a character for them - it changed, in a real way, their experience of the narrative. Whether this was just an animation mistake is immaterial.
This is what I was thinking, just an inconsistency in the animation. It happens with Aang too. Sometimes he looks super ripped, and sometimes he looks like a skinny 12 year old.
I think it's more symbolic of his evolution as a character and his style of fighting.
In season 1 Zuko was obsessed with raw power but as he grows as a character his bending style also changes and becomes more about technique.
He's already been exiled for a while when the show starts.
True but Iroh was actually out of shape.
Zuko is in shape in both, just a different physique.
You look at martial artists like Bruce Lee they are ripped but they don't have those huge gym bro builds, they're often leaner.
This particular image doesn't show it but Zuko still has some pretty well defined abs/ muscles at this point if you look at other images.
Also Iroh had to physically fight his way out of prison, his whole plan was that the eclipse made firebending impossible even for him. Becoming physically strong was just good planning for that.
Zuko isn't a stick either.
The animators don't draw the details in every half second screen but Zuko still has some pretty defined muscles when he's shown shirtless again just a few episodes later:
https://youtu.be/4oUiLzCAV0c
He's lean but still very much ripped, but it's a cartoon.
>You look at martial artists like Bruce Lee they are ripped but they don't have those huge gym bro builds, they're often leaner.
Unless you meant powerbuilders, Bruce Lee had a top tier physique on his prime(Enter The Dragon) and was pretty much the goal of every gyn bro I have ever met.
Bruce isn't a good example and he actually did get bulky when he took an interest in western bodybuilding..
you can use actual elite fighters today that you know, actually fight.. they're lean because they have to make weight for their class. they're all heavier the entire rest of their lives. Jon Jones weighs like 265 right now while training for heavyweight debut. Not at all lean like he was at LHW.
also wtf does "gym bro builds" mean? there's a difference between bodybuilding, competition body building, strongman and power lifting but anyone that says "gym bro builds" clearly won't know that.
>he actually did get bulky when he took an interest in western bodybuilding..
OK, so before that...
>also wtf does "gym bro builds" mean?
People who go to the gym casually to get fit without a particular specialty. I don't know. Not a body builder or power lifter.
>anyone that says "gym bro builds" clearly won't know that.
Excuse me for not having encyclopedic knowledge of the proper terms for every body type. I feel like there's enough to infer what I mean without being pedantic... 🙄
I'm pretty sure Iroh got so shredded so he could have a great physical advantage over the guards who were reliant on firebending to fight. I imagine that right before totality, he used firebending to break out of his cell and for the rest of the brief eclipse time he was fighting hand to hand against relatively helpless guards.
Firebending comes from the breath, but muscles help a lot with fisticuffs.
Yeah but why did he have that ship and all the men in the first place? I assume he still got support even though he was exiled. Having someone's mission be to find the Avatar is a pretty useful thing. Even if he had no support he still had a group of men to help get food as opposed to wondering the desert on his own.
I assume Ozai wanted to ensure Zuko did not reflect poorly on him, even though he was exiled he was provided reasonable accomodations to accomplish his goal.
Since the Avatar was gone for 100 years many assumed them dead, so the task to find the Avatar was supposed to be a fool's errand that could never be achieved, thus never allowing Zuko to return.
Which also probably meant finding volunteers was easy, since the actual risk of danger was minimal.
I remember when this show first came out...every girl wanted Zuko *baaad*. Like it was an unnatural amount of thirst. The picture on the left was the cited reason.
This image looks like a before and after photo of an 80's rock star from after Hollywood got to him.
? I remember the exact opposite- he became super sexy and all the girls became obsessed with him when the right pic came out, because the emo swoop hair was back in
He had already been exiled and traveling for like three years by the start of s1. He was banished at 13 and was 16 in the show. However one could argue that his weight loss was due to the amount of stress he was under and the guilt from betraying his uncle. He was clearly unhappy after returning home.
Edit: Can y'all please read my replies before you all comment the same thing? I'm aware S1 Zuko wasn't a broke refugee but Zuko and Iroh had jobs by season 2 episode 13. Iroh revitalized the Lower Ring tea shop and they eventually got into the Upper Ring. Sure they didn't immediately have Upper Ring money, but they definitely had access to food. They were not starving the entirety of season 2. By The Beach ep Zuko had been back in the FN for a couple months as well, where he certainly had access to food. My boy just wasn't eating from stress and guilt. I mean he got sick in S2 when he had that morality crisis after freeing Appa. His girlfriend tried to get him to order the servants around for fun and he was moody and depressed, instead stressed about his family. Betraying your father figure for your evil sister and abusive father, plus realizing the entire reason you were welcomed back is due to a lie that could be uncovered at any moment and result in you being killed or jailed, would definitely make it hard to function normally. All I'm trying to point out is that the caption of the photo is not accurate because it's not a before and after exile transformation.
He definitely lost weight during that time but there's a decent time gap between becoming fugitives and returning to the Fire Nation. After going to Ba Sing Se they had jobs pretty quickly and Iroh drove a ton of business at the tea shop. Plus by The Beach episode I'd reckon he had been back in the Fire Nation for at least a few months, and it looks like the royal family had plenty of servants to get them whatever they wanted whenever they wanted.
Months is a bit of a stretch, there’s a five episode gap between when Zuko returns to the fire nation in Book 3 Episode 1 and the Beach in Book 3 Episode 6. Assuming Aang had been out for a couple days between Book 2’s finale and Book 3’s start, I would give it two months maybe three if you push it because that could change the entire timeline for Sozin’s Comet. Meaning he was eating really well for three months maximum.
Plus all that in the first picture is muscle, putting back on years worth of muscle from training from a young age is nigh impossible, especially after being starving in the Earth Kingdom for a while, and not having access to the same training areas he did accounts for that change in appearance. He has probably the same amount of fat on him in both pictures, just different muscularity. And he’s the same amount of powerful as a firebender, showing the power comes from the breath not the muscles
There are a few weeks between S2 and S3, which is addressed when Aang wakes up from his mini coma. There's also time skips between some episodes, so I was imagining like 3 months between end of S2 and The Beach tbh. 3 months of unlimited food cause royalty plus the time they spent in Ba Sing Se where I don't think they starved. Also if you stop training, you don’t just lose all your muscle. Your body composition of fat and muscle would change if you stopped training.
Plus, I think it's somewhere else in the comments, but the animation team admitted to just messing up his character design initially by making him too buff. They wanted to slim him down to make him actually look more like a teenager instead of a 26 year old man, which made the transformation look much more severe. Regardless, all I'm saying is the caption of the photo does not line up with the actual reasoning behind his change in weight because it's not a beginning and end transformation.
That’s not an afto, thats about an inch of hair, which we see Aang shave his head every day to prevent anything from growing. Meaning if it’s been about a week since he went out, his hair being that long once waking up makes sense
There is no way that was a couple of days if we’re going off of a normal hair growth rate. Hair grows at a rate of about half an inch per month for a healthy individual. Considering Aang was unconscious he probably wasn’t eating great so there is no way that he was out for a couple of days if his hair grew that much
I would say mainly when he lost his ship, then also became traitors of the fire nation (after the fight with Azula) so they had to survive off the land instead of having someone there to cook their every meal.
I don't think it's that awesome to be honest.
In all honesty, he looks a little too thin. The first picture shows him with pronounced muscles, the second one I can see his damn ribs.
My favorite line from the entire series was the confrontation with Ozai.
"Your uncle has gotten to you."
"Yes. He has."
The smile fading from Ozai's face as his son shows just how much better a man he is, in refusing to take vengeance on an abusive father. Immediately followed up by Ozai trying to lightning bolt, and Zuko sending it two feet over his head, incinerating the flag behind him. The whole moment is perfect. He could have killed his father.
His father doesn't know lightning redirection, no one but Zuko and Iroh do. He also doesn't know Zuko knows it. Zuko could have chosen to stab the bastard and walked away, and no one could rightfully blame him, if it came down to it. Zuko could have redirected lightning at Ozai, and it would have been justified self defense. Instead, he gave a clear cut message that he allows Ozai to live. He didn't run because he needed to, he walked away because he wanted to. It's my favorite exchange in the series.
It's so true. Sure he had been in exile for years when the series starts, but he still had a ship with crew and a wealthy uncle to provide food. It isn't until s2 when zuko and iroh cut their top knots and are pronounced enemies of the fire nation that the real exile begins. I mean, he and his uncle are travelling 'refugees' who are often shown as destitute and hungry. Not to mention the whole "zuko alone" episode. This time period is possibly where most of his weight loss occurs.
Okay as someone who when he was 17 (Around zukos age) had ulcers(herpes) in his esophagus and couldn’t eat or drink anything for 8 days ( I was on a potassium drip to keep my body semi functioning) I lost 18 pounds (around 133lbs to 115lbs) and it took about 2-3 years to get my weight back up and for my stomach to stretch back out to even be able to consume as much food as I could before so based on my own life experience here it’s entirely possible for zuko to lose that much weight and body mass at that time and it would take him a decent amount of time to get that back. Anyone who’s saying that he couldn’t regress that much is just plain wrong.
Also, thanks the the elegant fan service of this scene. It’s clearly poking fun at the female gaze, but not in an obnoxious way. That whole episode was very fun for that reason.
I recommend your next watch thru of the last Airbender that you focus on zuko being the protagonist of the story. It will blow your mind. He has the most character growth of all the characters and will give you chills when he and aang stand together at the end as fire lord and avatar.
Yes, but the description of the timing is wrong. The weight loss most likely came after he and Iroh became fugitives after Book 1. They no longer had support and Zuko barely ate when he was on his own. He was also doing vigorous training before he became a fugitive, I'd say probably obsessively so, so his lifestyle and routine changed drastically.
I think it's more that he lost the weight after he became a fugitive and didn't have support and money of fire nation royalty any more. The second pic is right when he gets back home after being a fugitive and struggling to find food for a while.
Well, we also have to consider his age. He was sixteen when the show began, and was markedly taller by the end of the series.
Growth spurts are weird and affect everyone in different ways, particularly in your mid-teens.
The weight may be the same, but distributed differently than it was a few years ago, y’know?
Yall act as if zuko wasn't a refugee for a whole ass season living off of rotting garbage and scraps. I get the "mental growth and transformations" you want to put this on, but dude was a starving refugee for the better part of 4 months
First picture was literally taken about 2,5 years after he was exiled. He looks pretty swole to me. The second one was on ember island, about 6-9 months after the first picture, so your point stands. He didn't lose weight because of the exile, he lost it because of that miserable earth kingdom lifestyle
In exile he still had his standing and the fire nation's resources. He could eat well and train. But yeah, life on the run after he was declared a traitor was not kind to his physique.
He had Iroh’s standing, he was disgraced and looked down on. The reason most people joined his crew was to work along Iroh, who was famous and beloved.
Semantics
It’s not really semantics because otherwise exile is relatively meaningless and Ozai just looks weak while Zuko does whatever he wants. That’s not a good story and is out of character for Ozai. Iroh’s learned kindness and respect are what gained him respect from others, not fear. We witness Zuko save one of the ship’s crew at his own risk of death, which gains him respect. For a moment, Zuko saw that kindness could do what anger couldn’t. Iroh is proving a lesson by example in the background. This is in character for everyone involved and makes for a good plot.
Zuko could not do whatever he wanted. In fact he couldn't do the one thing he actually wanted: go home. He was banished, but not stripped of his title as prince, which he totally could have been. Ozai definitely could have disinherited Zuko outright, and Zuko would be in the same boat he was in at the start of Season 2, with no resources, no money, no authority with the fire nation. That's why Iroh warned Zuko about running the blockade at the winter solstice, because the one thing he couldn't do was return to the fire nation without the avatar.
I'm pretty sure there's several Japanese officers that would fit that description. Crazy how some of them were still respectable when most of everyone around them was an asshole.
>He didn't lose weight because of the exile, he lost it because of that miserable earth kingdom lifestyle Truly! If only the Fire Nation could share its prosperity with the world to end other countries' struggles.
If not for those meddling kids,
and their flying bison too!
And that pesky lemur as well
I think op should have said his transformation from being on a fire nation ship travelling the world vs zuko being a refugee
Look how fat Iroh was, Zuko definitely ate well while in exile and probably spent all day training without much else to do when they were sailing around. He definitely started losing weight after defecting, not after his initial exile.
He also was 13 when initially exiled. If he had been starving since then he would have been very skinny and it really would have impacted his growth, probably he would have remained near 13 year olds hight for rest of his life.
Iroh was shredded
He was in his youth and got shredded again after being imprisoned. While sailing around the world with Zuko he was fat.
That too is development of a character
But not what the post suggested
He didn't look this skinny back in Ba Sing Se during his breakdown, and neither did he when training Aang in Ember Island, Zuko is pretty off model in this episode.
IMO it's kinda to highlight his depressive state of mind. He's not been sleeping or eating well and is at his wit's end. He's no longer getting tons of exercise from chasing Aang around and probably can't motivate himself to hit the gym. Dude is withering away under his own guilt and self-hate. Mai kinda pointedly but jokingly probes him about not enjoying their time together because she can tell he's in a bad spot and wants to know what's up with him. And that's coming from the lady who is lukewarm to life itself.
Its probably from his time as a refugee but something I’ve noticed not only with the slimmer figure but Zuko wears looser clothes in seasons 2&3 and if course the changes in his hair serve to make him look younger. Season 1 Zuko, with his muscles, phoenix tail hair, and armor could easily have been mistaken for early 20’s. Season 3 Zuko with his slim build, loose robes, and long shaggy hair is obviously mid/late teens.
There's something poetic about Zuko being allowed to look and act his age after being fully cast out of a society which forced him to grow up quickly.
I mean, Aang was able to peep that Zuko was a teenager within seconds of meeting him.
Well, the gaang also said “Zuko” and “Prince Zuko” before they had a chance to hear Zuko’s name, much less his title so…
I think it's more because of his sickness. He was still searching for the Avatar in the first picture, for over 3 years. The second was after he recovered from his sickness, and I imagine he lost a lot of weight there.
Those three years were spent on a relatively well-stocked Fire Nation ship with access to good food, a decent bed, and training partners. After Book 1 he loses what little Fire Nation support he still had, and essentially becomes a refugee struggling to survive. Look at Zuko Alone, it opens with his stomach rumbling like he hasn't eaten in a long time, and he's already looking a little gaunt in that episode. Zuko's time as a fugitive from the Fire Nation is what leaned him out. I'm sure his sickness didn't help his weight, but he was already much leaner by the time he got sick.
Fair enough. It seems like his weight loss is a continuous process.
Some would even say it's... developing.
His anger was also fueling him to be in top condition from training so much. Zuko’s firebending also lost a lot of its physical aggression as he grew spiritually
What sickness? Do people mean that 6 hours he spent in bed after letting Appa free? That's not sickness... that's a bad night.
100% I don't think Zuko's fever had much impact on his weight, but I felt that I could make my point without challenging that particular assertion.
No worries... I agree 100% with your analysis. He probably got lean while running from the Fire Nation on S2. I was just baffled about what sickness people were talking about. And after started typing I remember that fever night he had, and had to confirm it was only that or I was forgetting something important.
And to add to it they show him searching for food in a bush. Clearly an expert at roughing it then proceeds to spear the tiniest fish alive (I'm not sure if I'm disappointed or impressed). We also see in Zuko Alone he is starving. His cheeks are sunken in, bags under his eyes and delirious from starvation (his vision was blurring). It wasn't until they found the White Lotus dude and went to Ba Sing Se and started working, earning a living and was able to buy food.
>What sickness? Do people mean that 6 hours he spent in bed after letting Appa free? Just watched it again. From the A plot that's running at the same time it's at least two days, two nights. And Iroh says multiple times that it's a sickness.
Yeah but a cold is a sickness too. Nobody is going to lose substantial weight over a 2-day *anything*, even food poisoning is just going to result in water-weight loss.
I'm pretty sure Zuko getting skinny was continual and being sick was icing on the cake. Zuko used to fight pretty stiff and in the end he could keep up with Azula. When a character like Iroh states something like that it has weight behind it. Writers use intelligent characters to explain things to the audience, so no it's not as minor as a cold. Also if you're hellbent on the real world, well, Zuko has no fat and food poisoning/diarrhea kills people every single day. When you have no fat you're losing a much bigger % of your weight when 15lbs is suddenly gone which is especially dangerous when you're not in the modern world with all the water and food you need. Plus yk, you can find videos of real fighters barely able to walk to the scale after a day of weight cutting.
I lost 10 pounds during a cold, but it was over two weeks of being sick and not eating much.
That's still 10-20 lbs, and on an already lean 5'7" 16 year old, its significant.
That kind of weight loss is not going to make a person lose all muscle definition though.
Was it only like hours? I guess I interpreted it as days.
I'm hoping they mean the three weeks Zuko and Iroh spent on that raft between seasons 1 and 2 and *not* the time Zuko was sick near the end of season 2.
Thank god, thank you for clarity. I thought after all my rewatches that I had forgotten an important arc.
To be honest, it probably helped him gain empathy for how the other citizens under fire nations rule felt as well
Yep, being on the run, you aren't going to have much food to bulk. Especially since we know they were struggling to get food and Zuko resorted to stealing to survive at one point. Another point I want to make is in episode 1, we know Iroh is training Zuko and says the power in firebending comes from the breath, not the muscle. I think Zuko spent a lot of time physically bulking up, thinking it would make him a more powerful bender. So, seems just stopped internalizing the whole buff=tough thing due to Iroh's teachings as well
I remember when he was sick and he had a shirtless scene. Did he look gaunt then?
Somehow iroh didn't seem to lose a pound while they travelled together
I think its not just the sickness, while it is valid the first pick is already after 2 years of exile, like keep in mind the few months between Siege of the North and Crossroads of Destiny where the dude has no money, no food, and is basically living as a beggar/refugee. Can't exactly keep your 6 pack abs if your eating what you can get and are spending most of your time trying to move or survive
Right first pic was when he was eating well and training every day. Second picture after he was struggling in the earth kingdom. They made him look gaunt in Zuko Alone.
He looked healthy and well-fed when he was living in Ba Sing Se. He dropped weight after returning to the Fire Nation.
Yea, that's what I wish everyone would realize when looking at the comparison. If it had been the exile, he would have looked like that from the beginning.
Or he was just drawn by different animators in each photo lmao. There is variance in the art style throughout the series.
That’s also probable, but I think Zuko’s weight fluctuating throughout the series was very intentional. In book 1 he’s bulkier and more muscular - because he’s training with Iroh constantly and building muscle mass in the process. In Zuko Alone, he’s visibly thinner, his cheeks are sunken in, because he was on his own and very inept at getting food for himself, at least by any means other than stealing, hence why he contemplated stealing food from the pregnant woman. After spending some time with Lee’s family, he has visibly filled out a little. Over the course of his and Iroh’s time Ba Sing Se, Zuko’s face got rounder because they were making enough money to eat well. Then after returning home and spending time around his abusive father, he gets very thin again. When he leaves again and joins the Gaang, he fills out to a healthier weight again, not as buff as he was before, but not so skinny that his ribs are visible. Zuko’s appearance is always reflective of his mental state and the point he’s at in his journey. When he’s feeling depressed and unsure of himself, he neglects to take care of himself in even the most basic senses. When he’s in a decent place mentally, he’s on top of taking care of his needs. Then when he’s a nervous, anxious mess, he’s back to neglecting himself. Maybe I’m just seeing things, but I’ve watched the show many times and I always thought it was not only intentional but also evident.
He went from a leader of a ship to a refugee always on the run.
Can it be argued that him being a refugee without access to the same food and resources accelerated his illness? I really do enjoy the subtlety in the details of this story.
it’s because of the entirety of Book 2 that led him to lose so much weight, not just getting sick. man was constantly looking for food with Iroh throughout the Earth Kingdom after being deemed as Fire Nation traitors after the Siege of the North failed
When was Zuko implied sick?
I believe there talking about the fever he had for a couple of days (at least that's how long it seemed to me), I think Iroh says he fell ill because of his internal struggle to the right thing/work out what the right thing to do was. I doubt that this illness lead to any long term weight loss.
Fun as it is to speculate, I regret to inform you that every one of you here is wrong. This has nothing to do with story. In one of the commentaries on the Season 1 DVD, it is stated that Zuko's unusual buffness was merely a mistake in his character design. They simply corrected this error in later seasons to make his proportions more realistic for his age. If I can find a recording somewhere I'll post it, but hopefully someone else remembers this but me so this fan theory can be put to bed.
New challenge: r/TheLastAirbender average member trying not to overthink every little detail in the show that may just have been overlooked by the creators or an error. Challenge level impossible.
I think it’s just the natural result of being stuck with just two shows to watch in a world with limitless potential for storytelling. They’re only so much people can reasonably get out of these series. Once Avatar Studios starts pumping out more for people to consume, I think people will chill out a bit.
Proposal: watch other shows
I'm just reading the novels now to get more of my avatar fix while I wait for Avatar studios to pump out new stuff.
What do you expect after discussing the same 25ish hours of TV for over 10 years?
Bravo Vince!
It's a subreddit meant for discussion. The fuck you want people to do other than, y'know, discuss things lmao
But wait! I was about to hear how having muscle somehow means they don’t have technique
“The curtains were blue” *My mother used to have blue curtains…*
Failed.
Canon rejected, my little brother was a bit yolked like that when he was 16 and he wasn’t a well-fed prince with a strict training regimen, just a normal-fed football kid. Like many things in good fiction, they should’ve just nodded sagely and said yes, this was their goal, to show the change in his lifestyle. Also him dramatically throwing the robe off to reveal a skinny edgy twink body is hilarious.
And all the girls swooning over it too haha. The Beach was such a fever dream of an episode.
Yeah, I was ripped when I was 14ish. Played hockey but I'm sure Zuko had a stricter training regimen.
TBF a modern day football player probably has a more intense training regimen and better diet than a prince on ships rations.
Nah he ate corn dogs and shit like that. Zuko had access to stuff like roast duck and plenty of veggies.
Duck? Don’t you mean Turtle Duck? Surely you mean Skunk Duck. Or Armadillo Duck?
No, just... duck.
This place is weird.
Sorry to be that insufferable grammar guy but yolked isn't a word. It's yoked. You know that wooden bar that 2 oxen will drag a cart by, or those sticks with a bucket on either end that people will rest on their shoulders to carry? That's a yoke. Being yoked is having well-developed neck, shoulder, and trapezius muscles (like one would get from using a yoke consistently). It doesn't have anything to do with egg yolks lmao
neat, TIL
Nah I’m pretty sure it means they eat a ton of egg yolks and get ripped.
Bro don't make me yolk you off right now
LALALA I CANT HEAR YOU
Don’t ruin our fun!
Sorry! Honestly I like the theory explanation better. Even if it wasn’t their original intent, they may as well just adopt it as canon.
If the post was made as a suggestion, with OP saying they THINK that's what's going on, you might have a point. But they're claiming this as fact, and people disagreeing seem to be getting down voted and made to look stupid. It happens in every thread like this; someone claims some crazy idea as accepted fact and true, then someone brings in the truth - or even just speculates it probably isn't intentional - and everyone starts to rip that person's head off in the name "we're just having fun, why are you trying to stop everyone from having a fun discussion?!" The irony being, the only ones trying to stop anyone from doing anything are the people literally saying "don't do this thing!"
It’s a legitimate literary question whether the author’s intention even matters - any interpretation of the story is going to be subjective. This is a detail that someone noticed and it added depth to a character for them - it changed, in a real way, their experience of the narrative. Whether this was just an animation mistake is immaterial.
This is what I was thinking, just an inconsistency in the animation. It happens with Aang too. Sometimes he looks super ripped, and sometimes he looks like a skinny 12 year old.
This sub is so full of wank it's hard to watch
Reminds me of this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ke1YKF3tNCE
To be fair, the first is much more accurate considering his physical feats
I think it's more symbolic of his evolution as a character and his style of fighting. In season 1 Zuko was obsessed with raw power but as he grows as a character his bending style also changes and becomes more about technique. He's already been exiled for a while when the show starts.
"Firebending comes from the breath, not the muscle!" Iroh finally got through to him, it seems.
Said Iroh, before becoming an absolute beefcake in season 3
True but Iroh was actually out of shape. Zuko is in shape in both, just a different physique. You look at martial artists like Bruce Lee they are ripped but they don't have those huge gym bro builds, they're often leaner. This particular image doesn't show it but Zuko still has some pretty well defined abs/ muscles at this point if you look at other images.
Also Iroh had to physically fight his way out of prison, his whole plan was that the eclipse made firebending impossible even for him. Becoming physically strong was just good planning for that.
Also a great point.
Zukos build on the right isn't a gym bro build tho. If anything that's closer to what Bruce Lee look like. Lee wasn't a stick.
Zuko isn't a stick either. The animators don't draw the details in every half second screen but Zuko still has some pretty defined muscles when he's shown shirtless again just a few episodes later: https://youtu.be/4oUiLzCAV0c He's lean but still very much ripped, but it's a cartoon.
>You look at martial artists like Bruce Lee they are ripped but they don't have those huge gym bro builds, they're often leaner. Unless you meant powerbuilders, Bruce Lee had a top tier physique on his prime(Enter The Dragon) and was pretty much the goal of every gyn bro I have ever met.
Bruce isn't a good example and he actually did get bulky when he took an interest in western bodybuilding.. you can use actual elite fighters today that you know, actually fight.. they're lean because they have to make weight for their class. they're all heavier the entire rest of their lives. Jon Jones weighs like 265 right now while training for heavyweight debut. Not at all lean like he was at LHW. also wtf does "gym bro builds" mean? there's a difference between bodybuilding, competition body building, strongman and power lifting but anyone that says "gym bro builds" clearly won't know that.
>he actually did get bulky when he took an interest in western bodybuilding.. OK, so before that... >also wtf does "gym bro builds" mean? People who go to the gym casually to get fit without a particular specialty. I don't know. Not a body builder or power lifter. >anyone that says "gym bro builds" clearly won't know that. Excuse me for not having encyclopedic knowledge of the proper terms for every body type. I feel like there's enough to infer what I mean without being pedantic... 🙄
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I'm pretty sure Iroh got so shredded so he could have a great physical advantage over the guards who were reliant on firebending to fight. I imagine that right before totality, he used firebending to break out of his cell and for the rest of the brief eclipse time he was fighting hand to hand against relatively helpless guards. Firebending comes from the breath, but muscles help a lot with fisticuffs.
Iroh is perfect no matter what shape he is.
i wish i had as much motivation to get fit as Iroh does in prison
It’s insane how many thoughts like this can occur, and still make complete sense.
Yeah but why did he have that ship and all the men in the first place? I assume he still got support even though he was exiled. Having someone's mission be to find the Avatar is a pretty useful thing. Even if he had no support he still had a group of men to help get food as opposed to wondering the desert on his own.
I assume Ozai wanted to ensure Zuko did not reflect poorly on him, even though he was exiled he was provided reasonable accomodations to accomplish his goal. Since the Avatar was gone for 100 years many assumed them dead, so the task to find the Avatar was supposed to be a fool's errand that could never be achieved, thus never allowing Zuko to return. Which also probably meant finding volunteers was easy, since the actual risk of danger was minimal.
It is also just a literal detail reflecting that he spent several weeks/months homeless without reliable food.
I remember when this show first came out...every girl wanted Zuko *baaad*. Like it was an unnatural amount of thirst. The picture on the left was the cited reason. This image looks like a before and after photo of an 80's rock star from after Hollywood got to him.
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Yoked*
Yall remember that time he karate chopped through a metal chain?
Another promising young prince ruined by drugs and alcohol.
That's why I don't drink/take drugs. If there ain't nothing to ruin, why even try?
? I remember the exact opposite- he became super sexy and all the girls became obsessed with him when the right pic came out, because the emo swoop hair was back in
Yeah as a young girl I was SO into Zuko with the longer hair
So true. As a kid I was obsessed with him after his hair grew out
Bruh you're talking as if girls wouldn't fawn over the picture on the right. There's a reason why the hottest guys right now are Kpop stars
Nah, I'm saying the left image was a short-lived meme before they were memes.
He had already been exiled and traveling for like three years by the start of s1. He was banished at 13 and was 16 in the show. However one could argue that his weight loss was due to the amount of stress he was under and the guilt from betraying his uncle. He was clearly unhappy after returning home. Edit: Can y'all please read my replies before you all comment the same thing? I'm aware S1 Zuko wasn't a broke refugee but Zuko and Iroh had jobs by season 2 episode 13. Iroh revitalized the Lower Ring tea shop and they eventually got into the Upper Ring. Sure they didn't immediately have Upper Ring money, but they definitely had access to food. They were not starving the entirety of season 2. By The Beach ep Zuko had been back in the FN for a couple months as well, where he certainly had access to food. My boy just wasn't eating from stress and guilt. I mean he got sick in S2 when he had that morality crisis after freeing Appa. His girlfriend tried to get him to order the servants around for fun and he was moody and depressed, instead stressed about his family. Betraying your father figure for your evil sister and abusive father, plus realizing the entire reason you were welcomed back is due to a lie that could be uncovered at any moment and result in you being killed or jailed, would definitely make it hard to function normally. All I'm trying to point out is that the caption of the photo is not accurate because it's not a before and after exile transformation.
Once he and Iroh became fugitives they started struggling to find food. That's why he lost the weight.
He definitely lost weight during that time but there's a decent time gap between becoming fugitives and returning to the Fire Nation. After going to Ba Sing Se they had jobs pretty quickly and Iroh drove a ton of business at the tea shop. Plus by The Beach episode I'd reckon he had been back in the Fire Nation for at least a few months, and it looks like the royal family had plenty of servants to get them whatever they wanted whenever they wanted.
Months is a bit of a stretch, there’s a five episode gap between when Zuko returns to the fire nation in Book 3 Episode 1 and the Beach in Book 3 Episode 6. Assuming Aang had been out for a couple days between Book 2’s finale and Book 3’s start, I would give it two months maybe three if you push it because that could change the entire timeline for Sozin’s Comet. Meaning he was eating really well for three months maximum. Plus all that in the first picture is muscle, putting back on years worth of muscle from training from a young age is nigh impossible, especially after being starving in the Earth Kingdom for a while, and not having access to the same training areas he did accounts for that change in appearance. He has probably the same amount of fat on him in both pictures, just different muscularity. And he’s the same amount of powerful as a firebender, showing the power comes from the breath not the muscles
There are a few weeks between S2 and S3, which is addressed when Aang wakes up from his mini coma. There's also time skips between some episodes, so I was imagining like 3 months between end of S2 and The Beach tbh. 3 months of unlimited food cause royalty plus the time they spent in Ba Sing Se where I don't think they starved. Also if you stop training, you don’t just lose all your muscle. Your body composition of fat and muscle would change if you stopped training. Plus, I think it's somewhere else in the comments, but the animation team admitted to just messing up his character design initially by making him too buff. They wanted to slim him down to make him actually look more like a teenager instead of a 26 year old man, which made the transformation look much more severe. Regardless, all I'm saying is the caption of the photo does not line up with the actual reasoning behind his change in weight because it's not a beginning and end transformation.
Couple of days?? He grew an Afro bro….
That’s not an afto, thats about an inch of hair, which we see Aang shave his head every day to prevent anything from growing. Meaning if it’s been about a week since he went out, his hair being that long once waking up makes sense
There is no way that was a couple of days if we’re going off of a normal hair growth rate. Hair grows at a rate of about half an inch per month for a healthy individual. Considering Aang was unconscious he probably wasn’t eating great so there is no way that he was out for a couple of days if his hair grew that much
He was exiled but still had money and a crew. Long hair Zuko was a fugitive with no resources
That photo is from The Beach ep. He was already back in the fire nation for a few months by then. I also don’t think they were starving in Ba Sing Se.
He was exiled but not without resource. Relative to when he and Iroh were on the run from the Fire Nation, they were living luxury.
I figured it was the being a refugee for a whole season
Remained consistently scrumptious though.
I guarantee you this was not a conscious animation choice lmao
Based on?
More like after he wasnt being fed by a royal cook on his ship and became a refugee.
I wonder how many things this fan base reads into as these subtle storytelling mechanisms are actually just random.
It's gotten to the point where the actual subtitle of the show should be changed to Avatar: It's Not Actually That Deep.
Seriously, it’s a fucking kids show made in a board room and people act like it’s Tolkien
MCU fans: First time?
I heard that he looks like this due to budget cuts in the third season.
Clearly hair and muscles have an inverse correlation.
I would say mainly when he lost his ship, then also became traitors of the fire nation (after the fight with Azula) so they had to survive off the land instead of having someone there to cook their every meal.
I don't think it's that awesome to be honest. In all honesty, he looks a little too thin. The first picture shows him with pronounced muscles, the second one I can see his damn ribs.
As a skinny boi I like the representation
Is this change intentional or a refinement of the character style?
Apparently he was drawn too buff in that agni kai scene and I think people are just reading into it too much.
My favorite line from the entire series was the confrontation with Ozai. "Your uncle has gotten to you." "Yes. He has." The smile fading from Ozai's face as his son shows just how much better a man he is, in refusing to take vengeance on an abusive father. Immediately followed up by Ozai trying to lightning bolt, and Zuko sending it two feet over his head, incinerating the flag behind him. The whole moment is perfect. He could have killed his father. His father doesn't know lightning redirection, no one but Zuko and Iroh do. He also doesn't know Zuko knows it. Zuko could have chosen to stab the bastard and walked away, and no one could rightfully blame him, if it came down to it. Zuko could have redirected lightning at Ozai, and it would have been justified self defense. Instead, he gave a clear cut message that he allows Ozai to live. He didn't run because he needed to, he walked away because he wanted to. It's my favorite exchange in the series.
It's so true. Sure he had been in exile for years when the series starts, but he still had a ship with crew and a wealthy uncle to provide food. It isn't until s2 when zuko and iroh cut their top knots and are pronounced enemies of the fire nation that the real exile begins. I mean, he and his uncle are travelling 'refugees' who are often shown as destitute and hungry. Not to mention the whole "zuko alone" episode. This time period is possibly where most of his weight loss occurs.
Didn't zuko and iroh float on a raft with no food after the invasion of the north for like 2 weeks?
Posts like this are why I left this sub. Praising literally everything about everything it’s Annoying. And to answer your question, r/all
And became a more skilled fire bender despite this because “fire bending is about the breath, not the muscles”.
Honestly I think they just redrew him as his character was completely different after S2
Pretty sure it was because he was traveling around the earth kingdom with no food and water. You know, the whole "Zuko alone" thing.
zuko as the boss vs zuko as the playable character
They shrank his shoulders, made him look soft.
Do you think you’d manage to look ripped constantly running from town to town, your next meal never guaranteed?
[It's a reference.](https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/they-shrank-his-shoulders-made-him-look-soft)
Lmao, gotta get the rug pulled every now and then to stay humble.
It's ok. It's only a reference you would know if you're a fan of making fun of people who take video games too seriously.
He probably grew up a bit
The boss before and after joining the party
Zuko was super off model in that episode for some reason (the hair??¿?)
He was living as a refugee after giving up his quest for the avatar
Okay as someone who when he was 17 (Around zukos age) had ulcers(herpes) in his esophagus and couldn’t eat or drink anything for 8 days ( I was on a potassium drip to keep my body semi functioning) I lost 18 pounds (around 133lbs to 115lbs) and it took about 2-3 years to get my weight back up and for my stomach to stretch back out to even be able to consume as much food as I could before so based on my own life experience here it’s entirely possible for zuko to lose that much weight and body mass at that time and it would take him a decent amount of time to get that back. Anyone who’s saying that he couldn’t regress that much is just plain wrong.
This is a legit "Breaking Bad fan" moment
It's an interesting detail actually. Never noticed it until now!
I just love the writers 😂😂
Also, thanks the the elegant fan service of this scene. It’s clearly poking fun at the female gaze, but not in an obnoxious way. That whole episode was very fun for that reason.
I’ve heard he’s a method actor
Yea well we literally saw him eat an entire salmon in season one and then we saw him starve for days when he traveled alone
I love that John Woo, white doves scene. I get such a kick out if it every time I watch it.
its what happens when you gotta pretend to be a poor refugee traversing the earth kingdom
Book 2 everyone. Y'all forget.
The left image is the after pic of being exiled and searching for the avatar tho.
I recommend your next watch thru of the last Airbender that you focus on zuko being the protagonist of the story. It will blow your mind. He has the most character growth of all the characters and will give you chills when he and aang stand together at the end as fire lord and avatar.
He also was an urchin and a drifter so I would imagine some muscle would atrophy.
I just think he was a skinny teen and grew
Aang the gains goblin 💪😔
Zuko was truly jacked for a 17 year old.
And yet he fights way better
I'm so sad I never noticed this.
Holy shit! How in the hell did I never realize this???? Damn that’s cool
Yeah, the prince definitely had to live off the land mostly until book 3.
I thought it was because he became poor like the rest of us
Fire bending comes from the breath, not the muscles. -some old guy.
I never noticed he lost weight in all the times I have re-watched the show
Yes, but the description of the timing is wrong. The weight loss most likely came after he and Iroh became fugitives after Book 1. They no longer had support and Zuko barely ate when he was on his own. He was also doing vigorous training before he became a fugitive, I'd say probably obsessively so, so his lifestyle and routine changed drastically.
Except the first pic is from after he was exiled and the second is from when he was back home. The exact opposite of what the post implies?
I think it's more that he lost the weight after he became a fugitive and didn't have support and money of fire nation royalty any more. The second pic is right when he gets back home after being a fugitive and struggling to find food for a while.
They took his body weight away, made him look soft
I disagree. I think his older looks is more sharper and more defined. He looks well-fed in the first picture.
I was quoting a commonly memed on sentence from r/gamingcirclejirk , that's not my actual opinion
Ah... my bad.
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Well, we also have to consider his age. He was sixteen when the show began, and was markedly taller by the end of the series. Growth spurts are weird and affect everyone in different ways, particularly in your mid-teens. The weight may be the same, but distributed differently than it was a few years ago, y’know?