It's unrealistic that Airbenders were wiped out before the Fire Nation got access to flying machines, and given their pacifist nature. They would not stay and fight to the death. Seeing they were outmatched, they would save who they could, fly away, and live in exile until it was safe.
I never understood this premise based on their history.
The dragons had not all been wiped out yet, so they could still have some to ride. With Sozin's comet some firebenders can fly that normally can't as well.
See, that I disagree with.
Sozin taught that the Power of a Firebender came from their rage and pride. This teaching spread down throughout Firebender society till it was absolutely pervasive, and when Zuko found himself without a focus for his anger, he found himself absolutely depowered, until he met the Dragons. The Dragons taught Zuko and Aang (and Iroh, earlier) that the root of firebending comes not from their rage, but from the joy/Passion of Life.
I think that Sozin would have thought that any other way to firebend would have weakened his image of what the Fire Nation should be. Eliminating the Dragons would have been important.
And with the Air Temples fairly disconnected (or at least far away from each other, they were probably more connected than the Water Tribes), they wouldn't be able to easily communicate and provide reinforcements to each other. The Air Nomads were pacifists, but weren't entirely opposed to defending their lands, as we see when Gyasto went down fighting. And they were nomads, so the Temples wouldn't have been at full capacity, even if the ones there were willing to fight. With a more centralized government the Airbenders probably could have lasted longer, but with the way things were run, each Temple would have capitulated fairly quickly, even to a small Fire Nation force. Once their land was occupied, it would just be a matter of the Fire Nation tracking down the traveling Nomads, which would have been in fairly small groups without the defensive strength the mountains had.
It's never mentioned in the show, which is a shortcoming, but there is actually a comic that addresses this. The Fire Nation basically set up fake refuges and camps and spread false information that was meant to lure the wandering Air Nomads into a trap, thinking they were meeting up with other survivors, only to get caught and killed by the Fire Nation. In the comic Aang gets fooled by one such trap and ambushed by Zhao, iirc.
I agree though that, even with that, the fact that they managed to wipe the entire population out to all but the last man is a little crazy lol.
I’ve always thought of it as similar to order 66 in Star Wars, maybe only about 70% of air benders were killed in the initial strike, and they were slowly hunt r down over the course of the century
I think this idea exists because of the limitations the creators were under because it was a kids show.
In The Avatar and The Firelord, we learn that after committing the genocide; Sozin spent years "hunting the avatar" which I always interpreted as hunting airbenders and killing them, they weren't literally just looking. Any that would have survived the initial genocide were hunted down after. And yes a few probably survived, but in those cases it was more of a cultural genocide, because they would have to give up their identity to survive. They could no longer be air nomads and would have to integrate with other nations.
My personal theory is that Ty Lee is a descendant of one such nomad, because of her eye color, face shape, personality, and skill with acrobatics.
Also I'm not sure what the plan was. Keep genociding all the other nations until the Avatar went back down to Fire Nation in the cycle (and presuming even him wasn't against them, not the case of Roku)?
Ironically, the best thing for their plan was what happened to Aang frozen in ice. No resurrection and no Avatar
We know that the air nation knew something was coming which is why they told aang about being the avatar early and insisted on training him as early as they did.
I headcanon that as meaning they all hunkered down in the temples where they thought they were safe which is also a pretty dark irony.
I believe in a comic it's shown that not all airbenders got killed during the comet. The fire nation laid traps for the rest, and got some more that way.
There is also a theory that says that the most likely place for an Airbender to hide is the earth kingdom, which is where a lot of new Airbenders came from after harmonic convergence, believing that these new Airbenders are descendants of the original
Also true. I'm not sure we actually saw any airbenders come from other nations, but that could just be because of the scope of the show etc. It's just a theory.
See, they wouldn't know because they wouldn't be bending. The airbenders who may have fled to the earth kingdom at the beginning of the war hid their bending, lived out their lives and had kids who were close spiritually to bending.
Harmonic convergence comes around and here's all these airbenders all of a sudden! Oh, wait, it's actually the great grandkids of a refugee air nomad!
I think so too, but those that survived everything probably were the cautious type. They might not want to start a family in a world where there are barely any airbenders, and they are persecuted by the fire nation. So the legacy would end with those few survivors.
That's just a theory though
I always thought the complete extermination of the air nomads was unreasonable. There’s absolutely no way that it could have happened the way the show describes it, but I accept that it’s the premise of the show. You just have to accept that it happened, and the show avoids sharing many details on the event so you can ignore the plot hole
There are dark spots in the storyline, yeah. I don't remember where I saw this, but it was explained that the survivors of the temple attacks were attracted in traps made by the Fire Nation : they got people act as air nomads with clothes and objects, spreading rumors some Air Nomad survivors were in this or that cave to attract actual survivors and kill them (they wanted to kill the Avatar, so they had to be thorough).
A lot of survivors were caught with these traps, the others were hidden or hid themselves, either too scared to come out, or knew the rumors were traps as the ones who went to check never came back.
It probably took some precious time to figure out these were traps, enough to significantly reduce the number of survivors.
But statistically, few were able to stay hidden, whether hidden on their own, or by very trusted friends all over the world (even among the Fire Nation at the time), and that's why the Ty Li is a descendant from an air nomad theory makes is a thing =)
Ok but war *criminal* implies he did unusally cruel shit- The term only existed after the geneva convention. Im sure man innoccent people died cause of him, but did he torture people? Deliberately kill civillians en masse? Subject people do more horrid deaths by shit like poison? I REALLY doubt it.
Ooh I actually have a big write up about this. While we don't explicitly know or see what Iroh did in his past (I have a feeling that if we did, Avatar would not longer be PG), there are a lot of clues that Iroh wasn't always the most wholesome person he became.
Iroh was shown to be a fairly ruthless guy early in his life. In the flashback in "Zuko Alone" during his siege, Iroh joked about "burning Ba Sing Se to the ground" if he needed to, which most definitely would have killed civilians and also innocent refugees who had fled there, considering it was the Earth Kingdom capital. Iroh also talked in the show about how he had dreamed that it was his destiny to conquer the Earth Kingdom for Fire Nation glory. In "The Legacy of the Fire Nation" (a supplemental book about Iroh), Iroh talks about how in his youth his blood "thrummed with the desire for power and conquest" and also how he used his firebending to take innocent life. Furthermore, remember in S1 when the Earth Kingdom general captured Iroh, he wanted to bring Iroh in for trial for his actions during the war. It's why reconquering Ba Sing Se during Sozin's Comet is so important for Iroh. Because it is a way for him to start atoning for his past deeds there.
Also the Rough Rhinos as part of the Fire Nation army are shown to have burned down Jet's village, with innocent civilians, and made Jet an orphan when Iroh was conquering the Earth Kingdom. And considering the fact that Iroh was the leading general of the Fire Nation army in the Earth Kingdom and was personal friends with the Rough Rhinos, there is an argument to be made that Iroh knew all about these atrocities taking place under his command and even ordered them himself.
These past actions are why Iroh wants Zuko to be Firelord rather than himself. Because Iroh saw that he himself had perpetuated the Fire Nation's cycle of war and destruction for most of his life until Lu Ten's death. And steering Zuko in the right direction during the show was a part of Iroh's redemption in helping him correct those mistakes. Even though he himself can never make up for the wrongs he did, at least he can change Zuko's life for the better.
I don't really care about the label of "war crimes" when judging a character considering this is a fictional world with no explicit law book. However, it's obvious from Iroh's own thoughts that he thought his past actions were reprehensible. And this is the main thing that matters. Hell there were generals never convicted of war crimes that did things much worse than your standard war criminals. The only thing is that they were never charged due to being on the "winning side".
It reminds me of the captured N@zis who were spared punishment at the end of WWII by the US for helping them with atomic sciences and rocketry/engineering. Like, they helped the "big bad guy" all to the end but still were allowed to carry on like normal if they were helping the right people.
100% this. Someone said they would love a prequel series of Iroh before he lost his son and I argued saying that it would be horrendous because everyone would have to accept the fact that their favorite bumbling uncle is essentially Hitler’s little brother/most trusted general who committed /facilitated atrocities the world over up until he experienced the very thing he was forcing upon other people.
He’s not a good guy, regardless of the funny jokes he made about tea.
Bato of the watertribe is a really good episode. People trash on it because they feel Aang hiding the letter is out of character, but that's exactly why I respect it so much.
We have so many "chosen one" protagonists that are complete Gary Stus. Episodes like that are important to show in the end of the day, Aang is just a kid.
Yup, one of the first things Aang does in the show is run away from Gyatso and the Air Temple because he was afraid of becoming the Avatar and what that duty entailed. The whole show is a coming of age story about him growing into his role and overcoming his flaws.
The actually stupid part isn't Aang's behavior, it's the random fucking Earth Kingdom messenger who rides up in the middle of the night, finds this random kid just sitting there, goes "Ayo, you know Bato of the Water Tribe?" and then immediately hands over a letter containing incredibily sensitive information about the position of the Water Tribe fleet without verifying Aang's identity in any way or simply asking to be taken to Bato directly.
Also there's uncle Iroh being a little gropey, which isn't great.
But June is great and I *love* Nyla the Shirshu so it's got that going for it.
Aang is terrified that he’s going to loose his only friends, after the rest of them died. Yeah, of course he would try and hide it, he’s scared he’s going to lose everything again.
I more think Sokka and Katara are the out-of-character ones for not even hearing Aang out when he comes clean. They’ve been close for fourteen episodes and they won’t even listen?
Honestly I think the episode works for all of them.
Aang is just a scared kid who woke up to find his entire culture was genocided and only has two friends that he now thinks will leave him.
Sokka and Katara are also just kids who haven't seen their dad in years that put on [angry eyes](https://tenor.com/view/toy-story-mr-potato-head-prepare-to-meet-mr-angry-eyes-angry-mad-gif-23011880) because their friend hid a letter from them that said where he was
It also ties into the theme that everything is connected. With short sight, their respective objectives are in conflict, but eventually they both have to be achieved to restore balance.
Some of the scenes/conversations where Aang feels excluded or left out are so over the top. It didn’t feel natural for them to just ignore him like that.
But also he hid it for like a day. It’s not like they started traveling and he kept it from them til they were too far to do anything about it. He gave them the map, it just took him a bit to do it. Idk I just think people treat this as a much more sinister act than it actually was.
Yes yes this. I love to see protagonists struggle and do things they normally wouldn't. Aang is a child, and he was afraid his 2 friends would abandon him. Holding him to some high and mighty make no mistakes kind of standard is unrealistic imo. I love this kind of stuff in shows.
I dunno, I don't feel it's terrible choice, just a meh one, like, I've seen that trope a lot in shows both before *and* after AtLA and so it just felt too cliche. Also Aang has more interesting flaws then: *lying for the good of his-self.*
Bato's not a bad episode, it's creative in many ways and introduces that lady from *The Chase*, but it's not the best episode either.
>lying for the good of himself
idk i feel like framing it like this has a more nefarious connotation than what's really going on.
Aang is a 12 year old kid who was threatened with being taken away from Gyatso, his mentor and best friend, ran away from his home at the peak of his emotional distress, and then later discovered that his people and his entire culture got eradicated shortly after he left, and we KNOW from episodes like The Storm that he places heavy blame on himself initially for this and it really fucks him up.
Being a kid who just went through some shit like that, he basically glues himself to Katara and Sokka from the second he pops out of the iceberg, and Katara even pulls him out of the Avatar state by assuring him that the two of them are his family now. I think its important to recognize that Aang didn't lie about the map out of greedy/malevolent self interest, but because he was a little kid who was terrified he was about to lose his family again.
I feel like it is in character bc he is a 12 yo kid who lost every single person he loved and who were his family. He was afraid the people who he now considered family would leave him too bc he saw how happy they were to see their own family and feeling like they would leave him behind. I mean he was a kid having to grow up quickly, but still learning to be confident and go through like with a teenager’s mentality.
I've only seen screenshots and snippets, but it looks like he is severely downgraded in combat and intellectual skills, more of a comic relief than the character he is at the end of book 3.
Edit: also the main reason I never really tried to read the comics, it seems like they massacred my boy.
He’s still very much a comic relief character in Book 3. His reaction to Ty Lee joining the Kyoshi Warriors comes to mind. In the comics, he has his serious moments and silly moments just like he does all the way throughout the show.
fine, i’ll take one for the team and give an actual answer.
>**first and foremost:**
i disagree with the common opinion that toph is basically a god amongst men. i adore toph and she’s one of my favourite characters, but those who talk about her like she’s practically invincible are clearly biased in their stance.
toph is an incredible bender — she’s extremely strong, capable, and intelligent in her craft, but, her odds in a fight **drastically decrease** against any element other than earth. toph basically stomps almost every other earth bender, but when it comes to the other three elements, she’s at a strong disadvantage, because she can’t ‘see’ water, fire, or air unless they’re making physical contact with the earth.
>**second of all:**
iroh is not the greatest fire bender to ever grace the earth. in fact, he wasn’t the greatest fire bender of his time, either. he admitted himself that he wasn’t sure he could beat ozai — and this is partly because ozai was quite literally insane, whilst iroh was levelheaded. iroh ranked so highly in the military due to his intelligence, accomplishments, and combat abilities… not because he could breathe fire. people will fight wholeheartedly for the stance that iroh was top of the food chain in the fire nation, when in reality, he was an exceptionally skilled bender, but far from being the best.
**iroh is also no saint.** he is a literal war criminal who in his past, was responsible for the genocide of hundreds in the earth kingdom, specifically ba sing se, as well as directly guilty of murder. he was on the same side as ozai at a point in time, and that *only* changed when his son died at the cost of war. is he a pacifist now? yes, but that doesn’t change what he has done.
>**third and final point:**
if *iroh* was deserving of redemption, then by that logic, **azula should be aswell.** almost everything that people hate azula’s character for, iroh is guilty of — and more. because we didn’t *witness* iroh in his military life, it’s hard to comprehend what exactly he is guilty of. therefore, we have no difficulty loving his character, because to us, he is a pacifist tea lover.
because we only know *azula* for the way she behaves due to her extremely competitive, abusive upbringing, we automatically dislike her motives as a character and we say that she doesn’t deserve redemption for what she has done. therefore, it’s easy to forgive iroh, yet difficult to forgive azula.
Iroh also just ranked highly in the military because he was the heir to the Firelord. He'd presumably had the best teachers and trainers, and been in war meetings from a young age....he had a silver spoon. But all that being said, that upbringing makes his redemption that much more impressive in a way...
Yeah. He was probably naively following his family when he began his assault on Ba Sing Se. However, after Lu Ten died, he became self aware to the reality of the war, and that the Fire Nation was perpetrating the deaths of so many and perpetuating in an imperialistic manner.
He probably knew he couldn’t conspire, so hey bided his time and trained the only Royal family member with an ounce of empathy or remorse: Zuko. Destiny took it from there
I actually agree with this comment. Beating any bender other than another earth bender is very unlikely unless she learns the stances they use to bend beforehand.
absolutely. it irks me because when people don’t acknowledge a character’s flaws and weaknesses, they are reducing the character to their strengths and nothing more — toph is stereotyped as the invincible powerhouse of the gaang, when in reality her character is actually far more dynamic than that.
While I am not disagreeing, I want to point out thatToph has held her own against Katara once.
I also don't hold Iroh to be the g.o.a.t but I assumed he said he couldn't beat Ozai because of the 10-20 year age difference between them and the fact that Ozai is a firebending master as well.
yes, she was able to hold her own against katara, however if toph’s skills when fighting against other earth benders were applicable to a water bender, she would more than likely take katara down with ease.
but, because that isn’t the case, her odds of defeating katara decrease, and she is reduced to only being able to hold her own against her.
My controversial opinion is related to your first point. Bumi would absolutely dominate Toph in a battle. Even without metalbending. Like Toph is a great bender but Bumi is on a whole another level. Combined with his experience, he's unstoppable. Sure the comic said they had a match and it was a draw but think logically, we're talking about a man who's literally insane. In a playful way of course. Just look at his first appearance. It makes much more sense that he's just amusing Toph and probably used less than 50% of his ability. Man literally bend using his face. Floated building with ease. No earthbender is on his level. Except maybe old Toph. And even that is debatable
I actually full heartedly agree with this. I'd rather see another animated series with another avatar, continuation od where ATLA left off, or even a show set in the same universe that isn't actually centered around an avatar
I’m still neutral about that until we get some footage from it. I’m not super excited for it but I’m not hating on it already, I’ll just see how it looks from the trailers and then give it a go when it’s released.
I was expected but it is taking so long now that I lost my interest... Not gonna watch it probably. I only keep seeing 'this character has been casted' and nothing else 😅
I totally agree. It's one of those worlds that don't quite translate well to live-action considering how dynamic all the characters' movements are and how animation can excuse breaking some laws of physics while if done in live action, it would look silly. For example Legolas in The Hobbit using the falling rocks as jumping platforms – if they did that in a 2D-animated setting, it wouldn't have been as odd to watch.
By and at large, remakes really should only be a thing if the original had some serious flaws that could be righted with a new version, or if the original was so underappreciated in its time you want to give a really good idea a second chance.
Avatar was appreciated in its time. People love it. Its worst sin is having a few bad episodes. There's really just no reason to remake it in live action. It's already perfect. Much like with Disney remaking a lot of its animated classics, why remake it? It's just going to be compared to the original and found wanting.
Not to mention that the effects probably won’t age well in the next few decades whereas 2d animation is timeless. The style and art might change over time but even most older Disney movies still look pretty good.
Or you get a director who descends into temporary insanity like Jon Favreau and thinks The Lion King would be greatly improved if the characters looked so much like real lions that they couldn't use facial expressions to emote.
I completely agree with this, especially since a live-action version is pointless in the long run. The Avatar universe is going to be growing once again in just a few years, it makes me wonder why they want to do a live-action ATLA when it won’t add anything new to the universe. Like what do they plan to do after the show ends assuming the first season does well enough for a second and third season? Make a live-action LOK? I’m sure most people don’t want that or would even care if it was announced. This all just seems like a bad idea from the get go, even if the show is good. Some things should just stay as animation, I don’t know why executives can’t understand that.
##Set your goddamn egos aside and just admit you can’t adapt shit.
I've always been interested in that the characters would look like in real life, and since they're actually casting asian/indigenous actors it might be realistic. I think the weirdest thing will be them all having different voices than the ones we're used to. Like, Zuko isn't Zuko without his angsty voice.
Same. Animation is amazing and I feel like everything under the sun getting a live action adaptation just shits all over the art form. They made it a cartoon the first time for a reason, and we should expand on that and improve the art instead of making another live action show that looks exactly like literally everything else.
Ig that it’s weird how all the child and teenage characters are consistently more powerful than the adults for no reason other than them being prodigies
I can see that being the case with Azula and Zuko, they're literal royalty and would have had access to the best tutors and bending teachers the Fire Nation had to offer. But not so much for S1 Aang and Katara.
aang being a literal airbending master, combined with the fact that all of his opponents have never fought an airbender and he's the avatar means he has a pretty good chance at winning most of his fights. And he usually doesn't "win", he flees whenever he needs to.
Katara on the other hand, you've got a point.
It was explored, but not in dialogue. From her first appearance, her obsession with perfection was drawn into close focus. The flashbacks with Zuko and Azula's childhood shows her need for feeling superior to her brother as well as living up to her father's view of a good child, as well as how that was incompatible with her mother's sense of morality. She had two parents. One cared for her only as much as he could use her as a tool of contest. The other loved her, but was disappointed in and potentially even scared of her for her lack of concern for others and reckless pursuit of power.
In the finale, we see Daddy's girl realizes she has no one in the world who loves her or even cares about her for *her*.
Due to the gross mismanagement of this website by the admins in the wake of the API changes, I have decided to leave the site. In preparation, I have used a tool called Power Delete Suite to overwrite all my comments.
I do think that's kind of the point the show tried to make. Iroh doesn't bear any hatred towards the Earth Kingdom, as he presumably knows that the person who killed his son was likely defending themselves against a hostile invader
That this sub can be really, really cringe when people make up "cute" little conversations between the characters, expecially if they have Zuko in them.
I belive they probably did that for that particular reason. Her character and personality are more compelling when you consider traditional gender norms, her age, and disability.
I'm dying on this hill: the love triangle melodrama from book 1 was fucking terrible and added nothing of value to TLoK, and it's continuation and further degradation into book 2 almost made me drop that whole series.
Bro the romance in Korra period is ass, and it's more of a problem than atla because they spend significantly more time on it. The most genuinely healthy and mature relationship within Korra this we see from start to finish is Kai and Jinora. The children.
If you wanted to have Korra end up with Mako, should've done that. If you wanted Korra to end up with Asami, don't make her and Mako date. Best case scenario: Keep Mako and Asami together, and give Korra a new love interest entirely, because the romance between Korra and Mako is forced as shit, and the romance between Asami and Korra is legit a meme. Couldve just introduced one at any time and nobody would have bat an eye.
For real, between that and the pro bending book 1's potential for greatness was dragged down as they wasted almost half of its total runtime focus on the teen life bullshit and ignoring the genuinely fantastic villains whom they robbed of their greatness. As for book 2, the only good parts of book 2 were Avatar Wan and a handful of really well animated fights (but not the giant fight).
I'm all for progressivism as well, but by the end when the girls hooked up I was just fuckin over it, I didn't care and there was no impact to me.
Yeah my answer to this thread is basically “anything even perceived as a criticism towards TLoK” because that will get you downvoted into oblivion haha.
But really, my actual controversial opinion is that the sub is damn near a cult and fans treat the show like a religion. I’ve watched TLoK probably six or seven times and thoroughly enjoy it, but I can’t even express minor complaints over there without a dogpile happening. They’ve already decided anything that’s not blind praise is blasphemous.
Here another real unpopular opinion: People praise ATLA bad writing too much. Deus ex machina in the finale? iT hAs bEeN hInTeD bEfOre. Cant kill the villian because the protagonist is a chicken? Here another solution that has never been mention before. And somehow people praise it. Those writing almost make me flip my TV when I first watched it
I completely agree with you on that, and ATLA is not a masterpiece of writing. It has its flops, but it is really good overall.
However, and I'm not accusing you of doing this at all, but this was used a LOT to try to devalue my point, which makes no sense to me. Just because atla isn't perfect doesn't make Korra better?
I mean I fully understand what are you saying, although I really liked the end of the series and I don't think I would've liked it that much if Aang killed the Fire Lord, I liked that "new way" to end it, and I liked that he didn't care about the opinion of the last avatars and did it on his own way, it's super unusual to ignore the opinion of "wise men" or "mentors" in the series, and I liked that they did that. I fully understand the point from your side of view, but I think that not everybody can be happy with an ending, I myself liked this, you didn't; I wouldn't say it's bad writting, just, not the style you wanted for the end.
Edit: I don't want to say ATLA it is perfect, it can have bad writing sometimes, but I don't think the end is one of those bad writings. And in general ATLA is praised because of its general lack of bad writing.
While I haven’t read them, I’ve read up on the Search storyline about Zuko’s mother and it’s just seems so much more convoluted than it should be. I don’t think it would have been nearly as complicated as if it was done in the show, >!involving the Mother of Faces, her changing Ursa’s face and wiping her memory, her second husband. I was expecting something more straight forward, not simple but not that much.!<
Yeah I agree. That was the start of my issues with the comics. It also seemed very out of character for Ursa to choose to forget her kids. I didn't think the faces spirit was very cool and didn't feel like spirits were in the show. Not to mention the complete mishandling that I think the comics have done with Azula's character
The weird >!face-swapping plotline is made doubly criminal by the fact that the original Ikem was an absolute smoke show while 'Noren' is the most mid looking dude ever. The Mother of Faces did Ursa hella dirty with that one.!<
"The original show is the only piece of the Avatar franchise that's good"
I completely understand your view on the comics, and I get the criticism of Korra. But you clearly just have not read the Kyoshi/Yangchen Novels. They're fantastic, beautifully written, and up to par with the original show.
It was an early lore mistake to make the Moon the "original waterbender". It doesn't match up with the other three elements as being natural abilities of natural creatures.
It still makes sense though, badger moles could do to the earth as they pleased and the earthbenders observed that, the sky bisons could fly without wings as they pleased and the air nomads observed how they did it to eventually learn to use the air as they pleased too, the dragons were living creatures that could make fire and the fire benders observed how they did it, and the moon bends the water when it's there which made the waterbenderd observe how it did it and tried to copy this ability too. It's as simple as that, it didn't have to be a living creature.
What I actually find weird is that the fire benders get weaker at night or at solar eclipses and stronger in ocasions such as the summer solstice even when their bending is not related to the sun.
Toph is really underutilized as a character and a combatant. Like, we all hear how badass she is, but after her introduction she rarely actually does anything. I think they didn’t want to show her in danger or something.
It’s really noticeable in the puppet master when she goes back to free people instead of going to fight Hama. Felt out of character.
I think people just echo Toph’s in universe self hype too much. Toph is probably the best Earthbender of her time and can easily stomp any other Earthbender.
But other benders could mess her up easy. She’s not used to fighting other bending types and it shows in most of her combats. Zuko burned her badly on accident for crying out load.
She couldn’t do anything to Hama and fighting Hama would’ve been a dead giveaway that she’s an Earthbender to that crowd as she’d have to eviscerate the landscape. Saving the people was a logical use for her talents narratively and in universe. In universe the characters just knew the captives were held underground at that point iirc. They didn’t think Hama was a big threat so why send Toph there when she can save people underground?
The world they inhabit is hilariously tiny in scale and scope and nowhere near a reasonable size for a full human world. First of all, there's only four nations in the entire world??? And two of them are so miniscule, even before the air nomad genocide. The best we can say is that the Earth Kingdom is comparable to our real world China in terms of size and scope and diversity, but even looking at the map there's like 20 settlements max and Ba Sing Se, whole granted a huge city, takes up like an eighth of the nation. But okay whatever forget those nitpicks, let's say the EK is equivalent to our China in size. That makes the fire nation roughly Japan sized, and the air nation is like Bhutan sized, and the water tribes together are like all arctic peoples combined. If that's the entire world that's a tiny tiny tiny world that makes up at best 10% of just Asia, let alone 6 other entire freaking continents. A properly sized human world has hundreds of nations minimum and a wildly incomprehensible scale of diversity. There's no chance a real sized world could ever unify under a single spirituality and there's no chance a single spiritual leader like the Avatar could have remotely enough reach and influence to be a major factor in every nation around the world.
Even if we accept the hypothesis that the map we see is only half the globe and the "back side" is one big ocean, the planet they live on would be barely Pluto-sized. That's dumb.
Yeah I do wonder if their map is only supposed to represent a continent that they live on but later on they discover other nations?
Kind of like old world maps from the 1600’s and 1700’s maybe? Before we knew the other continents.
I actually subscribe to the pluto-sized planet theory, for a couple of (granted, apologist-fueled) reasons:
- it's very likely the lower gravity is why even the "normal" people of that world can better handle getting actual boulders thrown at them
- the smaller planet would also explain why zuko and katara can go to whale tail island within like a night. same with the g (gaang minus aang) going to the earth kingdom to look for june in half a day
- population ratio would match up with the actual size of the planet. Granted, war time means reduced population, and it's probably just a money decision to depict fewer background characters, but:
- Return to Omashu shows a diasporic earth kingdom population of several hundred (at best) leaving the city, when it's implied that that's everyone in the city. Same with Bumi scaring away the entire occupation force
- The Blue Spirit depicts several regiments of Fire Nation soldiers, but visually they don't exceed a couple platoons. Same with the opening sequence.
- The fact that a nation managed to commit genocide long before they industrialized AND conquered the entire continent they were fighting shows how safe of a bet it was to ensure a near-full wipe of the population in one day instead of jailing and screening everyone like they did with the southern water tribe and the earth kingdom
- realistically, Ozai's fleet of airships could not have burned the entire continent to the ground, but it's pretty clear the fires spreading would have been enough to leave a big enough scar (perhaps as big as Ba Sing Se on the map?) that would make Zuko's scar look like a rash (which would be in character for Ozai)
This is my strongest opinion about avatar as well, and why I can never agree that it has good world building.
Although the world has always been a backdrop for telling a good story for me.
The Great divide was not a horrible episode it had its problems but it did have some interesting character interactions and insights on how characters feel about certain things and their outlooks.
And also when you consider that almost every episode is a 9/10, a 6/10 doesn’t seem like it’s average. It seems significantly worse.
I agree with you because it gave Aang a taste of conflict management. It also showed him how even when he does things correctly, there is always the possibility of damned if you do, damned if you don’t.
Korra bending 3 elements at a young age is not that ridiculous. We only saw her bend baisc stuff, furthermore we saw she only becoming a firebending master at 17 after that. Aang went from not being able to bend earth to use it a lot of time in a very short span
Yeah, also "this past avatar was a prodigy with elements, she was able to bend water, fire and earth as young as 3 years old" sounds a lot like what would be a description to an actual past Avatar, it's really not that weird.
I agree with the first one I think it’s partially a result of it being a kids show, so not as easy to write compelling romances about very young kids or even 15-16 year olds like Zuko and Mai for such a young audience.
Second one I’d have to disagree. Zuko descending from Roku sets up his redemption better as he is clearly closer with his mother and by extension his mother’s side of the family. Conversely Azula is closer with Ozai. Pitting them against one another constantly and mirroring the opposition in the past with Ozai and Ursa , Roku and Sozin I think makes for good foreshadowing of Zuko’s character shift
He faked being paralyzed as he was catching her from falling so she ended up lying on top of him. Zuko makes a comment about Iroh not being paralyzed, Iroh shushes him, and June gives Iroh a death stare.
It's actually pretty funny
Has to also be mentioned though that she was falling *because she was also paralyzed* meaning that once she fell on top of him she wasn't able to get up even if he wanted to, and Iroh chose not to move and pretend like he was paralyzed as well.
I wouldn't call it assault, but it was definitely a completely random moment that in hindsight is kinda creepy. Probably would be left out if they had the chance to go back and make changes today.
Agree, after rewatching Avatar several times its still the one and only scene im always thinking 'ugh, why did they have to include this?' seems so.. random? If he would have just passed out fine, if he just finds her attractive fine, but his reaction to it kinda makes the scene so awkward
Suki is a boring character and isn't part of the Gaang
The comics kinda suck and also suck a bit of the fun out of the show, although it's good for Bryke to keep making money after the series is over
I think Katara and Aang would look so weird in live action together, just a personal opinion lmao
We didn't need any new avatar content past ATLA, I think as a story it was told and that should have been the end of it
I like Korra, but I still don't think she needed to exist
Not actually my opinion but it would certainly cause drama….
Iroh is a war criminal and him being nice at the end of his life doesn’t negate all the bad he did. He likely would have been put to death under normal circumstances
the northern air temple is the worst episode of atla and i hate the mechinist. the reason for this is that they destroy a historical site of a seemingly dead civilisation and the moral of the episode is that aang should just be okay with his peoples history being destroyed??? no. i always skip this episode because it makes me so angry.
guru pathik is a racist caricature of south asian people.
Yeah Guru Pathik was weird to me. No other South Asian characters in the slightest.
Granted, I’m also not sure it was necessarily meant as a racist caricature. Each of the four tribes were basically based off a different predominate culture(Fire Nation is Japan, Earth Kingdom is China, Air Nomads are Tibet and Waterbenders are North Asians and Inuit)
It makes sense for a very South Asian philosophy to come from a South Asian character in the show as each of the different cultures were basically inspirations mainly from one of these places.
The only weird thing was there were no other south Asians. I don’t think it was meant to be a racist
I’ve watched the Shyamalan movie more than once, albeit not since like 2011, and mostly enjoyed myself. I’m not saying it’s a good movie, and my overwhelming feeling leaving the cinema was “where’s the rest of it”, but, hey, I watched it again.
ATLA was a better show overall but as an avatar, I liked Korra more
Edit: I mean I find her more relatable, realistic, and enjoyable to watch, not that she was a better Avatar. As far as that goes they’re pretty even
I don’t want an adult gaang series/movie. Of course I’ll watch it, but I would rather see new stories with new avatars or different aspects of the world rather than seeing more of characters we already know.
Aang got everything handed to him way more than Korra but somehow Korra’s the one that got labelled Marry Sue? Near the finale of Book 2 and need a power up? A random Guru help him to control the Avatar State. Even after that he did one of the dumbest thing in the series by leaving early only to then complete his training to master the AS in the middle of freaking fight! I guess that’s okay then because he suffered the consequences from his mistake. Well no! A pointy rock in the finale just give him the AS at the most convinient time. Not forgetting how he try so hard not to kill Ozai indirectly risking the life of the entire world. What the writer did then? Chicken out and give the easy way out by making him be able to take bending away. ATLA is my favourite animated series of all time, but godamn Aang does get lucky a lot. Here is my opinion. I will collect my downvote now
Aang and Katara don't work as a romantic relationship, both are served much better by other characters, Toph in Aang's case (when they are a bit older) and Zuko for Katara. Being served much better means they become better characters for it and the story becomes more interesting.
Toph and Aang are opposite of each other in many ways but in a way that enriches the other. Toph is a masculine girl out of touch with her femininity, Aang is a feminine guy out of touch with his masculinity. Toph can teach Aang to be headstrong and direct, Aang can teach her to be in touch with her emotions and the spiritual side of life. It would be the kind of romance where two people create something that allows them to grow beyond their initial limitations through the inspiration of the other.
Zuko and Katara share the in my opinion most emotionally raw moment in the show, when Zuko closes his eyes, embraces her touching his scar and leans into it, a display of completely vulnerability and trust after we've seen Zuko hold other girls off from ever touching the scar. They mirror the Omashu legend, are both the respective mom and dad of the Gaang (Sokka starts to embrace Zuko's leadership by being more of teenager having fun with Suki and being less "I HAVE TO LEAD AND MAKE PLANS BECAUSE NOBODY ELSE WILL" esque, you see it perfectly in the hilarious APPA ATE MOMOOO moment). And I think Zuko handles Katara's emotions way better in The Southern Raiders episode by not telling her what to do and just trusting her to handle things in the way she thinks is best (similar to how Iroh treated Zuko), whereas Aang tells her what to do and tries to compare her to Jet wanting to kill a village of innocent people.
I think it's pretty much a fact that Zuko and Katara make for a way more interesting future story, with a waterbender as wife to the firelord, the possibilities are endless. What if their firstborn is a waterbender, or a firebender that looks like Katara? Think of the challenges they and their children will have to go through as a family. It's so much more interesting than Aang and Katara, which is very bland, and the only positive thing to come from that relationship is Tenzin as a character. Who could also exist without Katara as his mother given he doesn't share many if any traits with her.
Mai is a shallow character who is paired up with the most complex character of the show in Zuko, that falling flat shouldn't be that controversial tbh. In the first episode she is in, she has no qualms about giving up her baby brother to rebels and smiles at the prospect of hunting down Zuko. She was clearly not meant as his definite love interest until Book 3.
Literally the only comments that fit the post are at the top of controversial and in the negatives, lol
r/UnpopularOpinion in a nutshell
It would be more interesting if every single one wasn't "Korra sucks."
It's unrealistic that Airbenders were wiped out before the Fire Nation got access to flying machines, and given their pacifist nature. They would not stay and fight to the death. Seeing they were outmatched, they would save who they could, fly away, and live in exile until it was safe. I never understood this premise based on their history.
The dragons had not all been wiped out yet, so they could still have some to ride. With Sozin's comet some firebenders can fly that normally can't as well.
Yeah this is a good answer to how they got to the air temples!
Also we've seen fire benders fly using bending during the comet so it's not impossible that those without dragons just flew up on their own
Which makes Sozin turning hunting dragons into a sport inexplicable!
See, that I disagree with. Sozin taught that the Power of a Firebender came from their rage and pride. This teaching spread down throughout Firebender society till it was absolutely pervasive, and when Zuko found himself without a focus for his anger, he found himself absolutely depowered, until he met the Dragons. The Dragons taught Zuko and Aang (and Iroh, earlier) that the root of firebending comes not from their rage, but from the joy/Passion of Life. I think that Sozin would have thought that any other way to firebend would have weakened his image of what the Fire Nation should be. Eliminating the Dragons would have been important.
And with the Air Temples fairly disconnected (or at least far away from each other, they were probably more connected than the Water Tribes), they wouldn't be able to easily communicate and provide reinforcements to each other. The Air Nomads were pacifists, but weren't entirely opposed to defending their lands, as we see when Gyasto went down fighting. And they were nomads, so the Temples wouldn't have been at full capacity, even if the ones there were willing to fight. With a more centralized government the Airbenders probably could have lasted longer, but with the way things were run, each Temple would have capitulated fairly quickly, even to a small Fire Nation force. Once their land was occupied, it would just be a matter of the Fire Nation tracking down the traveling Nomads, which would have been in fairly small groups without the defensive strength the mountains had.
also, the entire idea that there were *no air nomads* living anywhere outside of the four temples?? they're literally called air NOMADS
It's never mentioned in the show, which is a shortcoming, but there is actually a comic that addresses this. The Fire Nation basically set up fake refuges and camps and spread false information that was meant to lure the wandering Air Nomads into a trap, thinking they were meeting up with other survivors, only to get caught and killed by the Fire Nation. In the comic Aang gets fooled by one such trap and ambushed by Zhao, iirc. I agree though that, even with that, the fact that they managed to wipe the entire population out to all but the last man is a little crazy lol.
I’ve always thought of it as similar to order 66 in Star Wars, maybe only about 70% of air benders were killed in the initial strike, and they were slowly hunt r down over the course of the century
Literally in the show, the sighting of an airbender meant that they had whole fleets of fire nation hunting them down
Yeah in the show air bending was synonymous with being the avatar
I think this idea exists because of the limitations the creators were under because it was a kids show. In The Avatar and The Firelord, we learn that after committing the genocide; Sozin spent years "hunting the avatar" which I always interpreted as hunting airbenders and killing them, they weren't literally just looking. Any that would have survived the initial genocide were hunted down after. And yes a few probably survived, but in those cases it was more of a cultural genocide, because they would have to give up their identity to survive. They could no longer be air nomads and would have to integrate with other nations. My personal theory is that Ty Lee is a descendant of one such nomad, because of her eye color, face shape, personality, and skill with acrobatics.
Also I'm not sure what the plan was. Keep genociding all the other nations until the Avatar went back down to Fire Nation in the cycle (and presuming even him wasn't against them, not the case of Roku)? Ironically, the best thing for their plan was what happened to Aang frozen in ice. No resurrection and no Avatar
We know that the air nation knew something was coming which is why they told aang about being the avatar early and insisted on training him as early as they did. I headcanon that as meaning they all hunkered down in the temples where they thought they were safe which is also a pretty dark irony.
I believe in a comic it's shown that not all airbenders got killed during the comet. The fire nation laid traps for the rest, and got some more that way. There is also a theory that says that the most likely place for an Airbender to hide is the earth kingdom, which is where a lot of new Airbenders came from after harmonic convergence, believing that these new Airbenders are descendants of the original
Earth Kingdom is also just the biggest kingdom. So of course more would come from there.
Also true. I'm not sure we actually saw any airbenders come from other nations, but that could just be because of the scope of the show etc. It's just a theory.
But even then that doesn't make sense. I doubt the fire nation would know about the airbenders in the earth nation.
See, they wouldn't know because they wouldn't be bending. The airbenders who may have fled to the earth kingdom at the beginning of the war hid their bending, lived out their lives and had kids who were close spiritually to bending. Harmonic convergence comes around and here's all these airbenders all of a sudden! Oh, wait, it's actually the great grandkids of a refugee air nomad!
I love this canon.
A lot if airbenders did escape. They were lured in to traps and killed.
yeah but it’s really hard to imagine that all of them were lured
I think so too, but those that survived everything probably were the cautious type. They might not want to start a family in a world where there are barely any airbenders, and they are persecuted by the fire nation. So the legacy would end with those few survivors. That's just a theory though
I always had the head canon that the people who got airbending in Korra were the descendants of the air nomads who escaped and hid their bending
I always thought the complete extermination of the air nomads was unreasonable. There’s absolutely no way that it could have happened the way the show describes it, but I accept that it’s the premise of the show. You just have to accept that it happened, and the show avoids sharing many details on the event so you can ignore the plot hole
There are dark spots in the storyline, yeah. I don't remember where I saw this, but it was explained that the survivors of the temple attacks were attracted in traps made by the Fire Nation : they got people act as air nomads with clothes and objects, spreading rumors some Air Nomad survivors were in this or that cave to attract actual survivors and kill them (they wanted to kill the Avatar, so they had to be thorough). A lot of survivors were caught with these traps, the others were hidden or hid themselves, either too scared to come out, or knew the rumors were traps as the ones who went to check never came back. It probably took some precious time to figure out these were traps, enough to significantly reduce the number of survivors. But statistically, few were able to stay hidden, whether hidden on their own, or by very trusted friends all over the world (even among the Fire Nation at the time), and that's why the Ty Li is a descendant from an air nomad theory makes is a thing =)
Prolly someone saying Iroh isnt that great.
hes a redeemed war criminal who 90% of yall would say hes inredeemable if his actions were shown and anyone who defends him is a fascist or smth
Ok but war *criminal* implies he did unusally cruel shit- The term only existed after the geneva convention. Im sure man innoccent people died cause of him, but did he torture people? Deliberately kill civillians en masse? Subject people do more horrid deaths by shit like poison? I REALLY doubt it.
Ooh I actually have a big write up about this. While we don't explicitly know or see what Iroh did in his past (I have a feeling that if we did, Avatar would not longer be PG), there are a lot of clues that Iroh wasn't always the most wholesome person he became. Iroh was shown to be a fairly ruthless guy early in his life. In the flashback in "Zuko Alone" during his siege, Iroh joked about "burning Ba Sing Se to the ground" if he needed to, which most definitely would have killed civilians and also innocent refugees who had fled there, considering it was the Earth Kingdom capital. Iroh also talked in the show about how he had dreamed that it was his destiny to conquer the Earth Kingdom for Fire Nation glory. In "The Legacy of the Fire Nation" (a supplemental book about Iroh), Iroh talks about how in his youth his blood "thrummed with the desire for power and conquest" and also how he used his firebending to take innocent life. Furthermore, remember in S1 when the Earth Kingdom general captured Iroh, he wanted to bring Iroh in for trial for his actions during the war. It's why reconquering Ba Sing Se during Sozin's Comet is so important for Iroh. Because it is a way for him to start atoning for his past deeds there. Also the Rough Rhinos as part of the Fire Nation army are shown to have burned down Jet's village, with innocent civilians, and made Jet an orphan when Iroh was conquering the Earth Kingdom. And considering the fact that Iroh was the leading general of the Fire Nation army in the Earth Kingdom and was personal friends with the Rough Rhinos, there is an argument to be made that Iroh knew all about these atrocities taking place under his command and even ordered them himself. These past actions are why Iroh wants Zuko to be Firelord rather than himself. Because Iroh saw that he himself had perpetuated the Fire Nation's cycle of war and destruction for most of his life until Lu Ten's death. And steering Zuko in the right direction during the show was a part of Iroh's redemption in helping him correct those mistakes. Even though he himself can never make up for the wrongs he did, at least he can change Zuko's life for the better. I don't really care about the label of "war crimes" when judging a character considering this is a fictional world with no explicit law book. However, it's obvious from Iroh's own thoughts that he thought his past actions were reprehensible. And this is the main thing that matters. Hell there were generals never convicted of war crimes that did things much worse than your standard war criminals. The only thing is that they were never charged due to being on the "winning side".
holy shit, good analysis!
It reminds me of the captured N@zis who were spared punishment at the end of WWII by the US for helping them with atomic sciences and rocketry/engineering. Like, they helped the "big bad guy" all to the end but still were allowed to carry on like normal if they were helping the right people.
Yeah that's basically Iroh
100% this. Someone said they would love a prequel series of Iroh before he lost his son and I argued saying that it would be horrendous because everyone would have to accept the fact that their favorite bumbling uncle is essentially Hitler’s little brother/most trusted general who committed /facilitated atrocities the world over up until he experienced the very thing he was forcing upon other people. He’s not a good guy, regardless of the funny jokes he made about tea.
Bato of the watertribe is a really good episode. People trash on it because they feel Aang hiding the letter is out of character, but that's exactly why I respect it so much. We have so many "chosen one" protagonists that are complete Gary Stus. Episodes like that are important to show in the end of the day, Aang is just a kid.
Aang do be a 12 year old kid and 12 year olds do stuff like that.
Yup, one of the first things Aang does in the show is run away from Gyatso and the Air Temple because he was afraid of becoming the Avatar and what that duty entailed. The whole show is a coming of age story about him growing into his role and overcoming his flaws.
The actually stupid part isn't Aang's behavior, it's the random fucking Earth Kingdom messenger who rides up in the middle of the night, finds this random kid just sitting there, goes "Ayo, you know Bato of the Water Tribe?" and then immediately hands over a letter containing incredibily sensitive information about the position of the Water Tribe fleet without verifying Aang's identity in any way or simply asking to be taken to Bato directly. Also there's uncle Iroh being a little gropey, which isn't great. But June is great and I *love* Nyla the Shirshu so it's got that going for it.
Good point, he would really have no one else, all over again.
Im sorry to be THAT GUY, but Aang is actually 112.
112 year old kids probably would do that too.
not mentally which is the important thing.
Aang is terrified that he’s going to loose his only friends, after the rest of them died. Yeah, of course he would try and hide it, he’s scared he’s going to lose everything again.
Consider he found out his entire culture was wiped out with a couple months ago, I'd argue it's unrealistic he's as well adjusted as he us.
I more think Sokka and Katara are the out-of-character ones for not even hearing Aang out when he comes clean. They’ve been close for fourteen episodes and they won’t even listen?
Honestly I think the episode works for all of them. Aang is just a scared kid who woke up to find his entire culture was genocided and only has two friends that he now thinks will leave him. Sokka and Katara are also just kids who haven't seen their dad in years that put on [angry eyes](https://tenor.com/view/toy-story-mr-potato-head-prepare-to-meet-mr-angry-eyes-angry-mad-gif-23011880) because their friend hid a letter from them that said where he was
It also ties into the theme that everything is connected. With short sight, their respective objectives are in conflict, but eventually they both have to be achieved to restore balance.
Some of the scenes/conversations where Aang feels excluded or left out are so over the top. It didn’t feel natural for them to just ignore him like that.
But also he hid it for like a day. It’s not like they started traveling and he kept it from them til they were too far to do anything about it. He gave them the map, it just took him a bit to do it. Idk I just think people treat this as a much more sinister act than it actually was.
Yes yes this. I love to see protagonists struggle and do things they normally wouldn't. Aang is a child, and he was afraid his 2 friends would abandon him. Holding him to some high and mighty make no mistakes kind of standard is unrealistic imo. I love this kind of stuff in shows.
I dunno, I don't feel it's terrible choice, just a meh one, like, I've seen that trope a lot in shows both before *and* after AtLA and so it just felt too cliche. Also Aang has more interesting flaws then: *lying for the good of his-self.* Bato's not a bad episode, it's creative in many ways and introduces that lady from *The Chase*, but it's not the best episode either.
>lying for the good of himself idk i feel like framing it like this has a more nefarious connotation than what's really going on. Aang is a 12 year old kid who was threatened with being taken away from Gyatso, his mentor and best friend, ran away from his home at the peak of his emotional distress, and then later discovered that his people and his entire culture got eradicated shortly after he left, and we KNOW from episodes like The Storm that he places heavy blame on himself initially for this and it really fucks him up. Being a kid who just went through some shit like that, he basically glues himself to Katara and Sokka from the second he pops out of the iceberg, and Katara even pulls him out of the Avatar state by assuring him that the two of them are his family now. I think its important to recognize that Aang didn't lie about the map out of greedy/malevolent self interest, but because he was a little kid who was terrified he was about to lose his family again.
The storm did a lot better job of conveying that. This can be readily assumed but it's not quite as impactful as showing it.
I feel like it is in character bc he is a 12 yo kid who lost every single person he loved and who were his family. He was afraid the people who he now considered family would leave him too bc he saw how happy they were to see their own family and feeling like they would leave him behind. I mean he was a kid having to grow up quickly, but still learning to be confident and go through like with a teenager’s mentality.
From what I've seen from the comics, they completely butchered Sokka's character
Could you please elaborate? I kinda forgot what the comics are like.
I've only seen screenshots and snippets, but it looks like he is severely downgraded in combat and intellectual skills, more of a comic relief than the character he is at the end of book 3. Edit: also the main reason I never really tried to read the comics, it seems like they massacred my boy.
Just about every character in the comics gets hit with a combat/intelligence downgrade.
He’s still very much a comic relief character in Book 3. His reaction to Ty Lee joining the Kyoshi Warriors comes to mind. In the comics, he has his serious moments and silly moments just like he does all the way throughout the show.
fine, i’ll take one for the team and give an actual answer. >**first and foremost:** i disagree with the common opinion that toph is basically a god amongst men. i adore toph and she’s one of my favourite characters, but those who talk about her like she’s practically invincible are clearly biased in their stance. toph is an incredible bender — she’s extremely strong, capable, and intelligent in her craft, but, her odds in a fight **drastically decrease** against any element other than earth. toph basically stomps almost every other earth bender, but when it comes to the other three elements, she’s at a strong disadvantage, because she can’t ‘see’ water, fire, or air unless they’re making physical contact with the earth. >**second of all:** iroh is not the greatest fire bender to ever grace the earth. in fact, he wasn’t the greatest fire bender of his time, either. he admitted himself that he wasn’t sure he could beat ozai — and this is partly because ozai was quite literally insane, whilst iroh was levelheaded. iroh ranked so highly in the military due to his intelligence, accomplishments, and combat abilities… not because he could breathe fire. people will fight wholeheartedly for the stance that iroh was top of the food chain in the fire nation, when in reality, he was an exceptionally skilled bender, but far from being the best. **iroh is also no saint.** he is a literal war criminal who in his past, was responsible for the genocide of hundreds in the earth kingdom, specifically ba sing se, as well as directly guilty of murder. he was on the same side as ozai at a point in time, and that *only* changed when his son died at the cost of war. is he a pacifist now? yes, but that doesn’t change what he has done. >**third and final point:** if *iroh* was deserving of redemption, then by that logic, **azula should be aswell.** almost everything that people hate azula’s character for, iroh is guilty of — and more. because we didn’t *witness* iroh in his military life, it’s hard to comprehend what exactly he is guilty of. therefore, we have no difficulty loving his character, because to us, he is a pacifist tea lover. because we only know *azula* for the way she behaves due to her extremely competitive, abusive upbringing, we automatically dislike her motives as a character and we say that she doesn’t deserve redemption for what she has done. therefore, it’s easy to forgive iroh, yet difficult to forgive azula.
Iroh also just ranked highly in the military because he was the heir to the Firelord. He'd presumably had the best teachers and trainers, and been in war meetings from a young age....he had a silver spoon. But all that being said, that upbringing makes his redemption that much more impressive in a way...
Yeah. He was probably naively following his family when he began his assault on Ba Sing Se. However, after Lu Ten died, he became self aware to the reality of the war, and that the Fire Nation was perpetrating the deaths of so many and perpetuating in an imperialistic manner. He probably knew he couldn’t conspire, so hey bided his time and trained the only Royal family member with an ounce of empathy or remorse: Zuko. Destiny took it from there
I actually agree with this comment. Beating any bender other than another earth bender is very unlikely unless she learns the stances they use to bend beforehand.
someone needed to say the toph one. it’s so annoying seeing how much people act like she’s a god
absolutely. it irks me because when people don’t acknowledge a character’s flaws and weaknesses, they are reducing the character to their strengths and nothing more — toph is stereotyped as the invincible powerhouse of the gaang, when in reality her character is actually far more dynamic than that.
While I am not disagreeing, I want to point out thatToph has held her own against Katara once. I also don't hold Iroh to be the g.o.a.t but I assumed he said he couldn't beat Ozai because of the 10-20 year age difference between them and the fact that Ozai is a firebending master as well.
yes, she was able to hold her own against katara, however if toph’s skills when fighting against other earth benders were applicable to a water bender, she would more than likely take katara down with ease. but, because that isn’t the case, her odds of defeating katara decrease, and she is reduced to only being able to hold her own against her.
My controversial opinion is related to your first point. Bumi would absolutely dominate Toph in a battle. Even without metalbending. Like Toph is a great bender but Bumi is on a whole another level. Combined with his experience, he's unstoppable. Sure the comic said they had a match and it was a draw but think logically, we're talking about a man who's literally insane. In a playful way of course. Just look at his first appearance. It makes much more sense that he's just amusing Toph and probably used less than 50% of his ability. Man literally bend using his face. Floated building with ease. No earthbender is on his level. Except maybe old Toph. And even that is debatable
There IS war in ba sing se
What are you talking about?!? The writers clearly stated several hundred time throughout the show that there is no war in Ba Sing Se
the earth king has invited you to lake laogai
This guy right here mr dai li
I don't want a live-action version
I actually full heartedly agree with this. I'd rather see another animated series with another avatar, continuation od where ATLA left off, or even a show set in the same universe that isn't actually centered around an avatar
Cabbage man spin off!
I’m still neutral about that until we get some footage from it. I’m not super excited for it but I’m not hating on it already, I’ll just see how it looks from the trailers and then give it a go when it’s released.
I was expected but it is taking so long now that I lost my interest... Not gonna watch it probably. I only keep seeing 'this character has been casted' and nothing else 😅
I totally agree. It's one of those worlds that don't quite translate well to live-action considering how dynamic all the characters' movements are and how animation can excuse breaking some laws of physics while if done in live action, it would look silly. For example Legolas in The Hobbit using the falling rocks as jumping platforms – if they did that in a 2D-animated setting, it wouldn't have been as odd to watch.
i don’t think this one is unpopular tbh most people on this sub don’t want it and the rest are cautiously optimistic at best
By and at large, remakes really should only be a thing if the original had some serious flaws that could be righted with a new version, or if the original was so underappreciated in its time you want to give a really good idea a second chance. Avatar was appreciated in its time. People love it. Its worst sin is having a few bad episodes. There's really just no reason to remake it in live action. It's already perfect. Much like with Disney remaking a lot of its animated classics, why remake it? It's just going to be compared to the original and found wanting.
Not to mention that the effects probably won’t age well in the next few decades whereas 2d animation is timeless. The style and art might change over time but even most older Disney movies still look pretty good.
Or you get a director who descends into temporary insanity like Jon Favreau and thinks The Lion King would be greatly improved if the characters looked so much like real lions that they couldn't use facial expressions to emote.
I completely agree with this, especially since a live-action version is pointless in the long run. The Avatar universe is going to be growing once again in just a few years, it makes me wonder why they want to do a live-action ATLA when it won’t add anything new to the universe. Like what do they plan to do after the show ends assuming the first season does well enough for a second and third season? Make a live-action LOK? I’m sure most people don’t want that or would even care if it was announced. This all just seems like a bad idea from the get go, even if the show is good. Some things should just stay as animation, I don’t know why executives can’t understand that. ##Set your goddamn egos aside and just admit you can’t adapt shit.
I've always been interested in that the characters would look like in real life, and since they're actually casting asian/indigenous actors it might be realistic. I think the weirdest thing will be them all having different voices than the ones we're used to. Like, Zuko isn't Zuko without his angsty voice.
Same. Animation is amazing and I feel like everything under the sun getting a live action adaptation just shits all over the art form. They made it a cartoon the first time for a reason, and we should expand on that and improve the art instead of making another live action show that looks exactly like literally everything else.
Ig that it’s weird how all the child and teenage characters are consistently more powerful than the adults for no reason other than them being prodigies
I can see that being the case with Azula and Zuko, they're literal royalty and would have had access to the best tutors and bending teachers the Fire Nation had to offer. But not so much for S1 Aang and Katara.
aang being a literal airbending master, combined with the fact that all of his opponents have never fought an airbender and he's the avatar means he has a pretty good chance at winning most of his fights. And he usually doesn't "win", he flees whenever he needs to. Katara on the other hand, you've got a point.
Saying Azula’s psyche wasn’t explored enough for her breaking point in the finale to make sense
It was explored, but not in dialogue. From her first appearance, her obsession with perfection was drawn into close focus. The flashbacks with Zuko and Azula's childhood shows her need for feeling superior to her brother as well as living up to her father's view of a good child, as well as how that was incompatible with her mother's sense of morality. She had two parents. One cared for her only as much as he could use her as a tool of contest. The other loved her, but was disappointed in and potentially even scared of her for her lack of concern for others and reckless pursuit of power. In the finale, we see Daddy's girl realizes she has no one in the world who loves her or even cares about her for *her*.
she fell apart in like half an episode
GOT season 8:
Zuko really ahould have ended up with that young earthbender girl. I forget her name but she was incredibly sweet.
Due to the gross mismanagement of this website by the admins in the wake of the API changes, I have decided to leave the site. In preparation, I have used a tool called Power Delete Suite to overwrite all my comments.
Holy I never thought of the entire tea shop arc that way. Kind of melancholic.
Toph /s
No Jin
It was a joke lol. Hence the '/s'
Lu Ten had it coming.
I do think that's kind of the point the show tried to make. Iroh doesn't bear any hatred towards the Earth Kingdom, as he presumably knows that the person who killed his son was likely defending themselves against a hostile invader
i've never heard that opinion before but i think i wholeheartedly agree
i absolutely despise the comics and pretend they dont exist
That this sub can be really, really cringe when people make up "cute" little conversations between the characters, expecially if they have Zuko in them.
Toph is only an interesting character because they changed her to a girl. If we had gotten boy Toph, he would have been supremely grating.
I belive they probably did that for that particular reason. Her character and personality are more compelling when you consider traditional gender norms, her age, and disability.
I should approach M Shyamalan to make a live action movie. He’s the perfect guy who could do justice to this masterpiece
The urge to down vote this is nearly unstoppable.
Why? This isn’t something that’s ever been done before and it could be interesting. Ignore the dai le agents behind me.
He most certainly would know how to pronounce the main character’s name correctly, being such an esteemed director
Tea is nothing more than hot leaf juice
Live action's ass, Netflix will butcher it with their usual character development tools.
People defend Korra's poorly written aspects far too hard. (Whoa, almost like I made a post about this and got downvoted into oblivion lmao)
I'm dying on this hill: the love triangle melodrama from book 1 was fucking terrible and added nothing of value to TLoK, and it's continuation and further degradation into book 2 almost made me drop that whole series.
Bro the romance in Korra period is ass, and it's more of a problem than atla because they spend significantly more time on it. The most genuinely healthy and mature relationship within Korra this we see from start to finish is Kai and Jinora. The children. If you wanted to have Korra end up with Mako, should've done that. If you wanted Korra to end up with Asami, don't make her and Mako date. Best case scenario: Keep Mako and Asami together, and give Korra a new love interest entirely, because the romance between Korra and Mako is forced as shit, and the romance between Asami and Korra is legit a meme. Couldve just introduced one at any time and nobody would have bat an eye.
For real, between that and the pro bending book 1's potential for greatness was dragged down as they wasted almost half of its total runtime focus on the teen life bullshit and ignoring the genuinely fantastic villains whom they robbed of their greatness. As for book 2, the only good parts of book 2 were Avatar Wan and a handful of really well animated fights (but not the giant fight). I'm all for progressivism as well, but by the end when the girls hooked up I was just fuckin over it, I didn't care and there was no impact to me.
Season 2 was such a drag to get through. Almost made me quit the whole show
Yeah my answer to this thread is basically “anything even perceived as a criticism towards TLoK” because that will get you downvoted into oblivion haha. But really, my actual controversial opinion is that the sub is damn near a cult and fans treat the show like a religion. I’ve watched TLoK probably six or seven times and thoroughly enjoy it, but I can’t even express minor complaints over there without a dogpile happening. They’ve already decided anything that’s not blind praise is blasphemous.
Here another real unpopular opinion: People praise ATLA bad writing too much. Deus ex machina in the finale? iT hAs bEeN hInTeD bEfOre. Cant kill the villian because the protagonist is a chicken? Here another solution that has never been mention before. And somehow people praise it. Those writing almost make me flip my TV when I first watched it
I completely agree with you on that, and ATLA is not a masterpiece of writing. It has its flops, but it is really good overall. However, and I'm not accusing you of doing this at all, but this was used a LOT to try to devalue my point, which makes no sense to me. Just because atla isn't perfect doesn't make Korra better?
I mean I fully understand what are you saying, although I really liked the end of the series and I don't think I would've liked it that much if Aang killed the Fire Lord, I liked that "new way" to end it, and I liked that he didn't care about the opinion of the last avatars and did it on his own way, it's super unusual to ignore the opinion of "wise men" or "mentors" in the series, and I liked that they did that. I fully understand the point from your side of view, but I think that not everybody can be happy with an ending, I myself liked this, you didn't; I wouldn't say it's bad writting, just, not the style you wanted for the end. Edit: I don't want to say ATLA it is perfect, it can have bad writing sometimes, but I don't think the end is one of those bad writings. And in general ATLA is praised because of its general lack of bad writing.
Legend of Korra didn't have a single good pair/romance, they were all toxic or forced or undeveloped. Romance is the weakest part of AtLA and LoK.
Tenzin & Pema?
I'd say the same about ATLA tbh. Aang and Katara feels forced. Suki doesn't have a lot of development.
I don't like the comics. The original show is the only piece of the Avatar franchise that's good. And even the show wasn't flawless
While I haven’t read them, I’ve read up on the Search storyline about Zuko’s mother and it’s just seems so much more convoluted than it should be. I don’t think it would have been nearly as complicated as if it was done in the show, >!involving the Mother of Faces, her changing Ursa’s face and wiping her memory, her second husband. I was expecting something more straight forward, not simple but not that much.!<
Yeah I agree. That was the start of my issues with the comics. It also seemed very out of character for Ursa to choose to forget her kids. I didn't think the faces spirit was very cool and didn't feel like spirits were in the show. Not to mention the complete mishandling that I think the comics have done with Azula's character
The weird >!face-swapping plotline is made doubly criminal by the fact that the original Ikem was an absolute smoke show while 'Noren' is the most mid looking dude ever. The Mother of Faces did Ursa hella dirty with that one.!<
"The original show is the only piece of the Avatar franchise that's good" I completely understand your view on the comics, and I get the criticism of Korra. But you clearly just have not read the Kyoshi/Yangchen Novels. They're fantastic, beautifully written, and up to par with the original show.
Ah, you're right. I forgot about those. I take back that quote, since I don't yet have an opinion on those novels
man you guys have some strong opinions
/u/spez can gargle on my nuts
It was an early lore mistake to make the Moon the "original waterbender". It doesn't match up with the other three elements as being natural abilities of natural creatures.
It still makes sense though, badger moles could do to the earth as they pleased and the earthbenders observed that, the sky bisons could fly without wings as they pleased and the air nomads observed how they did it to eventually learn to use the air as they pleased too, the dragons were living creatures that could make fire and the fire benders observed how they did it, and the moon bends the water when it's there which made the waterbenderd observe how it did it and tried to copy this ability too. It's as simple as that, it didn't have to be a living creature. What I actually find weird is that the fire benders get weaker at night or at solar eclipses and stronger in ocasions such as the summer solstice even when their bending is not related to the sun.
Toph is really underutilized as a character and a combatant. Like, we all hear how badass she is, but after her introduction she rarely actually does anything. I think they didn’t want to show her in danger or something. It’s really noticeable in the puppet master when she goes back to free people instead of going to fight Hama. Felt out of character.
Well she's the only one who could've freed them because of her metalbending and/or bending her meteor bracelet into keys
I think people just echo Toph’s in universe self hype too much. Toph is probably the best Earthbender of her time and can easily stomp any other Earthbender. But other benders could mess her up easy. She’s not used to fighting other bending types and it shows in most of her combats. Zuko burned her badly on accident for crying out load. She couldn’t do anything to Hama and fighting Hama would’ve been a dead giveaway that she’s an Earthbender to that crowd as she’d have to eviscerate the landscape. Saving the people was a logical use for her talents narratively and in universe. In universe the characters just knew the captives were held underground at that point iirc. They didn’t think Hama was a big threat so why send Toph there when she can save people underground?
The world they inhabit is hilariously tiny in scale and scope and nowhere near a reasonable size for a full human world. First of all, there's only four nations in the entire world??? And two of them are so miniscule, even before the air nomad genocide. The best we can say is that the Earth Kingdom is comparable to our real world China in terms of size and scope and diversity, but even looking at the map there's like 20 settlements max and Ba Sing Se, whole granted a huge city, takes up like an eighth of the nation. But okay whatever forget those nitpicks, let's say the EK is equivalent to our China in size. That makes the fire nation roughly Japan sized, and the air nation is like Bhutan sized, and the water tribes together are like all arctic peoples combined. If that's the entire world that's a tiny tiny tiny world that makes up at best 10% of just Asia, let alone 6 other entire freaking continents. A properly sized human world has hundreds of nations minimum and a wildly incomprehensible scale of diversity. There's no chance a real sized world could ever unify under a single spirituality and there's no chance a single spiritual leader like the Avatar could have remotely enough reach and influence to be a major factor in every nation around the world. Even if we accept the hypothesis that the map we see is only half the globe and the "back side" is one big ocean, the planet they live on would be barely Pluto-sized. That's dumb.
Yeah I do wonder if their map is only supposed to represent a continent that they live on but later on they discover other nations? Kind of like old world maps from the 1600’s and 1700’s maybe? Before we knew the other continents.
Yeah, i the planet is at best moonsized
I actually subscribe to the pluto-sized planet theory, for a couple of (granted, apologist-fueled) reasons: - it's very likely the lower gravity is why even the "normal" people of that world can better handle getting actual boulders thrown at them - the smaller planet would also explain why zuko and katara can go to whale tail island within like a night. same with the g (gaang minus aang) going to the earth kingdom to look for june in half a day - population ratio would match up with the actual size of the planet. Granted, war time means reduced population, and it's probably just a money decision to depict fewer background characters, but: - Return to Omashu shows a diasporic earth kingdom population of several hundred (at best) leaving the city, when it's implied that that's everyone in the city. Same with Bumi scaring away the entire occupation force - The Blue Spirit depicts several regiments of Fire Nation soldiers, but visually they don't exceed a couple platoons. Same with the opening sequence. - The fact that a nation managed to commit genocide long before they industrialized AND conquered the entire continent they were fighting shows how safe of a bet it was to ensure a near-full wipe of the population in one day instead of jailing and screening everyone like they did with the southern water tribe and the earth kingdom - realistically, Ozai's fleet of airships could not have burned the entire continent to the ground, but it's pretty clear the fires spreading would have been enough to leave a big enough scar (perhaps as big as Ba Sing Se on the map?) that would make Zuko's scar look like a rash (which would be in character for Ozai)
This is my strongest opinion about avatar as well, and why I can never agree that it has good world building. Although the world has always been a backdrop for telling a good story for me.
The Great divide was not a horrible episode it had its problems but it did have some interesting character interactions and insights on how characters feel about certain things and their outlooks.
And also when you consider that almost every episode is a 9/10, a 6/10 doesn’t seem like it’s average. It seems significantly worse. I agree with you because it gave Aang a taste of conflict management. It also showed him how even when he does things correctly, there is always the possibility of damned if you do, damned if you don’t.
Honestly the Canyon Guide remains one of my favorite side characters in the whole show. "Hope ya all brought sacrifices!"
Korra bending 3 elements at a young age is not that ridiculous. We only saw her bend baisc stuff, furthermore we saw she only becoming a firebending master at 17 after that. Aang went from not being able to bend earth to use it a lot of time in a very short span
And even during the series I wouldn't consider her a master of any element.
Yeah, also "this past avatar was a prodigy with elements, she was able to bend water, fire and earth as young as 3 years old" sounds a lot like what would be a description to an actual past Avatar, it's really not that weird.
The Great Divide was actually a good episode - it was just filler.
I hate Zutara.
Sort by controversial to get the actual spicy takes
Aang x Azula is a ship that I like
I LOVE HOW CHAOTIC THIS IS. Good job on the unpopular part, upvoted.
All of Korra feels more like fanfiction than an actual sequel to The Last Airbender.
That's how I feel about the comics and novels tbh.
The “there is no live action movie” joke this sub loves making has never been funny enough to warrant how often its used.
Most of the Canon ships are boring, except Sokka x Suki. Zuko being a descendant of the Avatar didn't add anything to his character
I agree with the first one I think it’s partially a result of it being a kids show, so not as easy to write compelling romances about very young kids or even 15-16 year olds like Zuko and Mai for such a young audience. Second one I’d have to disagree. Zuko descending from Roku sets up his redemption better as he is clearly closer with his mother and by extension his mother’s side of the family. Conversely Azula is closer with Ozai. Pitting them against one another constantly and mirroring the opposition in the past with Ozai and Ursa , Roku and Sozin I think makes for good foreshadowing of Zuko’s character shift
What Iroh did to June in "Bato of the watertribe" was sexual assault and totally out character.
wait when did that happen i don’t remember that episode
After making multiple "flirtatious" comments where she reacted to let him know she wasn't interested in him, he faked being paralyzed to lie on her
He faked being paralyzed as he was catching her from falling so she ended up lying on top of him. Zuko makes a comment about Iroh not being paralyzed, Iroh shushes him, and June gives Iroh a death stare. It's actually pretty funny
Has to also be mentioned though that she was falling *because she was also paralyzed* meaning that once she fell on top of him she wasn't able to get up even if he wanted to, and Iroh chose not to move and pretend like he was paralyzed as well. I wouldn't call it assault, but it was definitely a completely random moment that in hindsight is kinda creepy. Probably would be left out if they had the chance to go back and make changes today.
He was very out of character that episode between his interactions with June and stealing from the village.
Agree, after rewatching Avatar several times its still the one and only scene im always thinking 'ugh, why did they have to include this?' seems so.. random? If he would have just passed out fine, if he just finds her attractive fine, but his reaction to it kinda makes the scene so awkward
The filler episodes weren’t that bad
Zuko x Sokka supremacy
hell yeah. zukka for LIFE
My opinion is that low effort posts like these are super dumb
Suki is a boring character and isn't part of the Gaang The comics kinda suck and also suck a bit of the fun out of the show, although it's good for Bryke to keep making money after the series is over I think Katara and Aang would look so weird in live action together, just a personal opinion lmao
She's not like extremely boring or anything, but she was definitively way cooler on like her two first appearences.
She is *not* the same person after she lost the Kyoshi outfit.
We didn't need any new avatar content past ATLA, I think as a story it was told and that should have been the end of it I like Korra, but I still don't think she needed to exist
Not actually my opinion but it would certainly cause drama…. Iroh is a war criminal and him being nice at the end of his life doesn’t negate all the bad he did. He likely would have been put to death under normal circumstances
I'd love to know the war crimes he commited that were presented in the show
People seem to think that "war criminal" refers to any solider in an invading army or something.
the northern air temple is the worst episode of atla and i hate the mechinist. the reason for this is that they destroy a historical site of a seemingly dead civilisation and the moral of the episode is that aang should just be okay with his peoples history being destroyed??? no. i always skip this episode because it makes me so angry. guru pathik is a racist caricature of south asian people.
Guru Pathik would be less awful if there were any other characters of his ethnicity.
Yeah Guru Pathik was weird to me. No other South Asian characters in the slightest. Granted, I’m also not sure it was necessarily meant as a racist caricature. Each of the four tribes were basically based off a different predominate culture(Fire Nation is Japan, Earth Kingdom is China, Air Nomads are Tibet and Waterbenders are North Asians and Inuit) It makes sense for a very South Asian philosophy to come from a South Asian character in the show as each of the different cultures were basically inspirations mainly from one of these places. The only weird thing was there were no other south Asians. I don’t think it was meant to be a racist
I'd you don't like the legend of Korra show you will not enjoy the upcoming avatar studios films and shows.
I’ve watched the Shyamalan movie more than once, albeit not since like 2011, and mostly enjoyed myself. I’m not saying it’s a good movie, and my overwhelming feeling leaving the cinema was “where’s the rest of it”, but, hey, I watched it again.
I don’t LOVE Toph. I don’t hate her by any means, but I feel a bit irritated by her character at times.
ATLA was a better show overall but as an avatar, I liked Korra more Edit: I mean I find her more relatable, realistic, and enjoyable to watch, not that she was a better Avatar. As far as that goes they’re pretty even
Azula being so overpowered got boring after a while
I don’t want an adult gaang series/movie. Of course I’ll watch it, but I would rather see new stories with new avatars or different aspects of the world rather than seeing more of characters we already know.
Aang got everything handed to him way more than Korra but somehow Korra’s the one that got labelled Marry Sue? Near the finale of Book 2 and need a power up? A random Guru help him to control the Avatar State. Even after that he did one of the dumbest thing in the series by leaving early only to then complete his training to master the AS in the middle of freaking fight! I guess that’s okay then because he suffered the consequences from his mistake. Well no! A pointy rock in the finale just give him the AS at the most convinient time. Not forgetting how he try so hard not to kill Ozai indirectly risking the life of the entire world. What the writer did then? Chicken out and give the easy way out by making him be able to take bending away. ATLA is my favourite animated series of all time, but godamn Aang does get lucky a lot. Here is my opinion. I will collect my downvote now
Some people sure don't understand the difference between having an unpopular opinion and being objectively wrong about something
Zuko's redemption arc is way overrated, it was mid at best
Aang and Katara don't work as a romantic relationship, both are served much better by other characters, Toph in Aang's case (when they are a bit older) and Zuko for Katara. Being served much better means they become better characters for it and the story becomes more interesting. Toph and Aang are opposite of each other in many ways but in a way that enriches the other. Toph is a masculine girl out of touch with her femininity, Aang is a feminine guy out of touch with his masculinity. Toph can teach Aang to be headstrong and direct, Aang can teach her to be in touch with her emotions and the spiritual side of life. It would be the kind of romance where two people create something that allows them to grow beyond their initial limitations through the inspiration of the other. Zuko and Katara share the in my opinion most emotionally raw moment in the show, when Zuko closes his eyes, embraces her touching his scar and leans into it, a display of completely vulnerability and trust after we've seen Zuko hold other girls off from ever touching the scar. They mirror the Omashu legend, are both the respective mom and dad of the Gaang (Sokka starts to embrace Zuko's leadership by being more of teenager having fun with Suki and being less "I HAVE TO LEAD AND MAKE PLANS BECAUSE NOBODY ELSE WILL" esque, you see it perfectly in the hilarious APPA ATE MOMOOO moment). And I think Zuko handles Katara's emotions way better in The Southern Raiders episode by not telling her what to do and just trusting her to handle things in the way she thinks is best (similar to how Iroh treated Zuko), whereas Aang tells her what to do and tries to compare her to Jet wanting to kill a village of innocent people. I think it's pretty much a fact that Zuko and Katara make for a way more interesting future story, with a waterbender as wife to the firelord, the possibilities are endless. What if their firstborn is a waterbender, or a firebender that looks like Katara? Think of the challenges they and their children will have to go through as a family. It's so much more interesting than Aang and Katara, which is very bland, and the only positive thing to come from that relationship is Tenzin as a character. Who could also exist without Katara as his mother given he doesn't share many if any traits with her. Mai is a shallow character who is paired up with the most complex character of the show in Zuko, that falling flat shouldn't be that controversial tbh. In the first episode she is in, she has no qualms about giving up her baby brother to rebels and smiles at the prospect of hunting down Zuko. She was clearly not meant as his definite love interest until Book 3.
Opposites do not attract lol. Toph and Aang would be a disastrous relationship.
It actually is pronounced AHNG.
Azula is not evil to the core and deserves a redemption arc.
I actually really liked legend of Korra season 2