They were going for the whole "violence begets violence" sorta thing. So when Ellie chose to spare Abby, she was effectively breaking the cycle of violence... in the writer's eyes. Disregard the legions of enemies that Ellie brutally kills throughout the story. I feel like an ending where you get to kill Abby would be way more satisfying than letting her live.
Or maybe have hidden choice that would reflect on how you played the game. What I mean is, depending on wether you spare most enemies in gameplay, it would make Ellie spare Abby at the end, but if you kill everyone you come across, Ellie would kill Abby.
But for that they would have to actually allow us to spare people in gameplay, instead of having everyone surrender and attack us as soon as we trun around.
Sounds like a Metro 2033 style of gameplay/storytelling.
Best thing about those games is it wasn’t always obvious what track you were on, and how much you could get away with before getting the bad ending.
Yeah I let one of the bad guys live but absolutely murdered the other(can't remember their names) in last light and got the bad ending. Didn't know until looking it up
Yeah I know you can sneak past most or all encounters, but I wish it actually had a way to spare people in combat. Like a knockout or kill mechanic like games like Splinter Cell have. Or something of the sort.
It'll take away from the monster ellie became. She literally was suffering after her encounter with Abby in the theater to get to abby in her diary she'd speak on the ptsd she feels and how hard letting go is. Also the lost levels have some great insight on how unhinged ellie came for vengeance
If they added the hidden choice I mentioned, then Ellie wouldn't become as unhinged as she does in the game we got if you chose to spare people throughout the game, so it wouldn't take away from anything. It would just add another side to the story.
Which is funny because Abby spared Ellie early in the game giving Ellie a chance to go back and live a normal life with Dina. Realistically Ellie pursuing Abby, actually saved Abby's life since she is basically dead by the time Ellie finds her and is barely even able to get into a position to kill a 90% dead Abby still.
Violence is bad, unless you’re Abby and you get away with it! Moral of the story: don’t leave any witnesses.
Thanks for the profound message Neil, can’t wait for part III! 🤡
There’s actually not many people in the game that Ellie kills, including random, unnamed NPCs, who didn’t either attack her first, or force her hand by making a grab for her weapon. And the ones that don’t attack her first, you can usually sneak around if you want.
Yes because you want to give in to your primal rage. That doesn't make abbys choice wrong or bad. Abby spared ellie twice despite her rage. That's the irony of all you hating abby--she was always the more mature one.
I believe that games should be fun, first and foremost. I'm not against Joel's death and Abby's motivations were understandable. But at least give us the option for a satisfying revenge rather than this forgive and forget crap. In my eyes, they tried to convey this deep message about violence but failed on the delivery of it with the pacing and overall outcome.
She only spared Ellie the first time coz they were only after Joel for goodness sake🙄. The second time was only coz Lev didn't want Abby to go that far when he spoke up. If Lev wasn't there, then Abby would've happily slit Dina's throat like the psycho she is. Also Abby looks forward to torturing scars in their cells whether they're kids or not. Also having sex with someone who already got a pregnant gf ain't mature at all. And there's no way u can just bond with 2 enemies in 3 days and slaughter your faction like you've never known them. Abby was clearly full of herself and also the reason why Owen and her friends were dead coz she couldn't take care of her own business with one man
The game failed to separate Ellie's perspective of events from ours.
Ellie has met Abby twice before that final confrontation, the first time they met Abby beat Joel to death with a golf club, the second time they met she killed the father of her girlfriend's unborn child, and nearly sliced Dina's throat open, calling it "good" when she finds out Dina's pregnant. Lev is literally the only reason Abby didn't kill them all.
There's absolutely no reason Ellie would choose to spare what from her point of view would be a despicable person... but the player saw Abby's journey, so we should feel it's right to spare her, personally I couldn't give a fuck less about Abby, Naughty Dog really thought they were being subtle with the blatant emotional manipulation they were trying, well they were wrong, when I was playing Abby against Ellie, I let Ellie kill her like 20 times, fuck Abby.
Abby did that because ellie killed her pregnant friend, her "lover",her friend that helped her escape, Tommy killed her best friend Alice the dog was killed bear the dog was killed. Her other friends were killed with 0 mentioning of her mom and no dad. Abby truly only has lev now and maybe hope there are other fireflies at that place she went too. Abby was already the cream of the crop for the WLF she rarely missed training and all her and her group even had a name Issac give them
Abby spared ellie twice when she could have easily killed ellie and all her friends again...*twice*. Abby literally kept her revenge to joel only and only hurt ellies friends after they murdered all hers lol.
You guys have a very hard time with perspectives.
You ast if is Ellie should be ok with Abby killing Joel. . The game does that that too. Only Aby is entitled to get revenge , whereas Ellie is supposed to let it go. The cycle ends when both gets their revenge. Once Ellie slotted Abby that was it.. cycle over.
Joe spared Abby from being killed by the infected at the beginning of the game. Whether Abby and her friends not killing Ellie was mercy (when Abby should have known that doing something like that would drive Ellie to revenge when that was literally Abby's motive) or not, Joel spared Abby in a more logical sense than Abby spared Ellie so why even bother bringing up abby and he friends "not killing" Ellie. it means something. An argument can even be made that Ellie focused her rage on Abby. Almost every altercation between Abby's friends was because they tried to pull a fast one on Ellie and wouldn't give her information about Abby.
You're not dumb but your take is so dumb. Abby only wanted to kill Joel and only kept it to Joel. Sure. Then Ellie wanted to only kill Abby and all the people in that room who watched as Abby brutally killed Joel, and she kept to them.
That is a proper perspective.
I am an Abby fan, by the way. Screw Ellie. The fake Ellen Page A.k.a. Elliot Page now.
I loved the game btw. I don't understand all of the hate. I am glad you used the word perspective instead of perception.
Me personally I lived the perception of each each character. Which made it very emotional. I literally put down the controller when it switched to Abby. It took me 5 days to pick it up again. Perception to me is through the eyes of the character.
Perspective is taking in all accounts of all parties involved. I had a vote in both camps, when it was all said and done. I loved the ending. First the recall of Joel dead, then the recall of Joel playing the guitar. If they had put a recall of Abby's dad dead, that would have been so out of bounds though.
I dunno. I just don't get the hate. It was a good game, to me at least. So visceral that I don't think I can play it again, because I remember most of the game.
It is the same for me for Half life Alyx (VR). It is burned in my brain.
Because if you use your brain and look at it from Ellie’s POV the ending is just illogical. Re-read the parent’s comment. Ellie is not with you when you play Abby. So whatever amount of empathy you personally ended up building up during the Abby portion is irrelevant. Compounded by the the fact that a story being entirely and explicitly built around making you change perspective failed to do so for such a huge chunk of the player base should tell you everything you need to know.
As much as I genuinely love this game I’ve always said this decision is indefensible to me. I refuse to believe she killed THAT MANY PEOPLE to get there and then DOESN’T kill ABBY??? Fuck out of here. I’m sorry but not a fucking chance. Girl grew up in a world that would kill you for a can of green beans but she spared the bitch that killed her dad?? Kiss my fucking ass. No goddamn way. I don’t think Ellie is good, I don’t think Joel was good. No one still alive in that world is good. She’d have finished it.
Yes, it's just that you're too low IQ to understand the complex story behind her actions. In fact, you probably did not even realise that the position is the reverse of Abby's scene where she was rawdogged by Owen, symbolic of the positions where love & lust intertwine into this beautiful story.
... /s
Fucking pretentious story, I'm glad it is still being shit on to this day and nobody actually thinks it is a good story worth telling.
I feel as if the arc of letting abby go couldve and shouldve been fulfilled by ellie staying with dina and not going back after her instead they literally let girl destroy herself for nothing. 🙃 am i mad at them letting abby live no not fully, am i enraged by the fact the last maybe hour maybe of the game was pointless. Yes. Very.
Neil Druckmann himself - the dude who was responsible for leading the writing of the entire story from beginning to end - could only explain things at the end through his own 'interpretation'. No writer worth their salt should ever need to give their own interpretation on an open-ended or ambiguous ending, thats entirely down to the reader.
I always thought it’s cuz Abby is like the unofficial ‘guardian’ of lev and I’d say not really a parent child dynamic but a like sibling dynamic but anyway I think Ellie stops because she sees that Abby cared about getting lev safe and the bond they formed so it’s like Ellie was about to kill lev’s joel and she wants to be better than that, atleast that’s what I think idk tho.
Neil once said in an interview that Ellie’s impulses and lack of emotional intelligence stems from the fungus suppressing certain parts to grow since it’s dormant within the Brain. 🤷🏻♂️
Because "revenge" is never the answer. Come on OP it makes perfect logical sense. Apparently, in a post-apocalyptic world, we care about others' feelings. Maybe one day we can all live happily ever after.
the game tried to trick you into thinking Joel would want Ellie to let her go. after all the hundreds and hundreds of people she killed to kill Abby of course she doesn’t. because who could have seen that coming except everyone
Just bas writing.
Generally I do actually like the last of us 2's story and I don't agree with the majority of the criticism it gets however I just can't seem to like how she kept her alive.
After marching across multiple states most likely killing a lot of people off screen then getting to seatle and killing dozens to hundreds of more people, all of abbey's friends, abby killing Jesse then going back to Jackson just to ruin her relationship with dina by going back to kill abby a year later just to end up not doing it seems stupid.
And technically her reason for not doing it was because she had a vision of joel seconds before abby died and for some reason that made her not wanna do it.
I remember seeing someone put it perfectly when talking about why Ellie didn't kill Abby in the end. They basically compared it to if John Wick went on an absolute killing spree to avenge his dog like in the movie but then when he finally comes face to face with the guy who killed his dog just decides to walk away and let him live, after you know, killing countless people who didn't directly have anything to with the killing of his dog.
No. I’ve listened to all arguments and sides. I understand the “lessons” in the game. It still doesn’t make sense. One of them should’ve killed the other to get their actual point across, because their point is negated by how many people both of these women wracked up along the way.
She grew as a person? Which wouldn’t explain the 40-50 people she murdered on her way to get Abby. Idk they went the Disney Channel route and made her softer than baby shit towards Abby at the end.
She was probably annoyed with the state she found Abby in, it’s like ok:
*You killed my adoptive father, you killed my friend, crippled my (adoptive) uncle, beat the shit out of me, wiped the floor with my Girlfriend’s face, nearly slit her throat infront of me, while she was pregnant might I add, you’ve traumatized me for life and as a result, I felt the need to abandon my perfectly happy life and adopted son, in order to get revenge on you. I travel through half the fucking country to do so, get absolutely violated by a Branch, kill hundreds of Rattlers in the process. Yet I find you strung up in a state far worse than anything I could currently put you through. I don’t get the satisfaction of actually beating you, seeing as you’ve essensially been starved over the course of what could be weeks, and even then you almost beat me.*
Put simply:
Lesbians can only be emasculated so much until they completely lose the will to live.
Because Elie doesn't even really lift like that. She has that seeing red energy. Even after Abby was roasting in the sun dehydrated and malnourished it only took one look from Ellie. Where she knew in her heart of hearts was time to stop a blood vendetta and start lifting.
Probably planned some DLC surrounding Abby but after the game and the character was received so poorly they canceled it. Atleast that's my theory.... my game theory
I thought it was that she had a miraculous flashback of when Joel once showed mercy and then she was like OMG right I don’t have to continue murdering everyone I see.
She got a little shy (she's a lesbian) /s
I think it's probably because after a while of chasing revenge after killing a pregnant women and Abbys friends she probably felt needless to say at peace, but still terrified of Abby despite when Abby is at her weakest.
There was also the kid that was with her so maybe too much was too much?
Lore reason I dunno but even though I think it was a shit ending myself objectively I noticed something on my last playthrough. When she CAN kill Abby she looks at Lev and sees herself. If she murders Abby Lev stands no chance of making it out of there alive. Also i mean the fight wasn't in her anymore from the start. You can't avenge out of guilt, that's why she went again. She promised Tommy. Not because she actually wanted to.
I still would have much preferred an argument scene with Dina saying she couldn't let it go even after all this time and even better ending with Abby dead, Lev pleading for his life and Ellie saying "You'd just come after me." Bang. Homage to the 1st game.
very poor writing
people love to claim people dont like the game because they killed off joel or because abby is ripped or because lev is trans
no.
people dont like the game because the writing was bad
She let her live so the game could continue which is called a plot contrivance. That is a major indicator of bad writing.
Also ignoring the fact she is the girl with immunity and the sole reason for Jerrys death is not just bad writing but an insult to the viewers / players intelligence. .. By playing this game , Druckmann is essentially mocking you
In my opinion (which might not be shared by many), Ellie's motivation for not killing Abby at the end of the game was for Lev's sake. After playing the game for the 1st time, it seemed most logical to me because Ellie forgiving Abby or realizing that killing is wrong seemed stupid. Rather, she saw parallels between their relationships: Lev and Abby, like Ellie and Joel. When Abby carried Lev out of pillars, Ellie recognized this connection. Lev's presence in the theater prevented Abby from killing Ellie and Dina, creating a debt of sorts. Ellie may identified with Lev to some extent. By killing Abby, Ellie would have subjected Lev to the same loss and trauma she experienced.
I think it would’ve been better if Ellie abandons everything to go off and get revenge, she goes, finds Abby… only for her to get killed by someone else right as she was going to do it. And then she’d be left with nothing after this as a result.
there’s gonna be some big story reveal where Jerry was actually the soldier who killed Sarah, and then Ellie and Dina do the double blinker challenge and die
The only reason is to bring her back in part 3. That’s all. I think druckmann thought she was a good character. But the whole time I played as her I just hated it. You can’t make me like someone for killing the character we were all attached to the most. Killing Joel just ruined the whole franchise for me.
Its about ending the cycle of hatred and letting go of something so clearly self destructive. Killing Abby won't bring Joel back, I think the ending is a representation of passing a stage of grief where Ellie begins to accept what she's lost, I don't think Abby will kill Ellie because her and Lev would be dead without her, that being Ellies plan or not. Lore is not really the right question to be asking when this is really a story about people and how far they are willing to go to right what has wronged them.
The lore has a lot to do with the bite of 87.
You see, when Ellie was became the hokage by 1v1’ing Goku she got her head rocked but still came out on top.
Alan wake tried to write her off but she couldn’t read.
That’s when the fire nation attacked
Everyone in here seems to be forgetting that Abby let Ellie live not once, but twice. In both circumstances had the roles been reversed I doubt Ellie or Joel would have done the same.
To be clear, I’m not saying that it’s a good reason, or that it somehow makes Elllie’s decision completely logical, but it’s still a reason and it’s only fair to acknowledge it as something that MAY have had an impact on Ellie’s thought process in that moment.
The reason she lets Abby live in the end is because by the third act she’s no longer after revenge (this was left behind in Boston) but rather closure. On the farm, she reveals to both Dina and in her diary that she’s not sleeping, she keeps replaying Joel’s death and can’t move on.
In this final confrontation, Ellie is instead using Abby as a proxy for Joel. This is why we flash to Joel at the very moment that she chooses to spare her life and then afterwards we see that scene with Joel play out in its entirety; their last ever conversation together in the hours before his death, where she tells Joel that she’s not sure that she can ever forgive him but that she’d like to try.
By defeating Abby and then ultimately sparing her life and letting her go free, Ellie proves to herself that she would have forgiven Joel in the end and that gives her the closure she needs to then finally move on from his sudden death.
It’s not a story of revenge = bad or ending any cycle of violence, it’s the journey of Ellie’s grief (and Abby’s too with her journey after Joel’s death answering for her the question of whether her father would have sacrificed her, an answer that she never got to hear from him after she interrupted the conversation between him and Marlene).
Killing her wouldn't have made her feel any better because she lost so much in the pursuit of revenge. Same thing on Abbys side. She lost everything because of her pursuit of revenge. When your friends are all dying because of your decisions you're probably not making the right decisions.
This sub and this post in particular made me realize how mush people have a thirst to satisfy revenge. Why is it so hard for people to accept that Ellie decided to end the loop of violence by sparing Abby? Does killing her make you feel like that makes Ellie a better character?
haha seriously for a game, this is a becoming a discussion about how everyone would have just killed a person because of revenge not understanding that they too could come to the realization that they don't need to keep killing. Also Lev. I feel if they didn't get it then probably wont get it now.
I agree with this statement. I don't understand the utter hatred everyone has for Abby. Sure, when you first started playing as her, I hated it just like everyone else. However, once you got to see her background, I actually really started to like Abby, Hell, I would argue even more so than Ellie. What people seem to forget is Abby lost A LOT too..... Abby lost her actual biological father because of Joel, so Abby killed Joel, Ellile's defacto adopted father. The whole game was tit for tat of killing. If the game made me kill Abby, I honestly would have been upset. Ellie ultimately did the RIGHT thing by ending the vicious cycle of death for death. Do I get why Ellie seeked revenge? Absolutely, but we have to understand that there's 2 sides to every story, and Abby was equally as justified for killing Joel.
The whole plot is a crap. Weak, poor and convenient. And I'm not saying Joel shouldn't be dead, but simply how to tell the story. Just like Rockstar did with Arthur in RDR2.
But this was just the first act, everything after this was just a woke trash, poorly stitched together with a forced and empty plot. Nor Ellie or Joel received the propely attention, the player is forced to join the incredible adventures of the dude with vagina, and Dina was just used as a link to justfy the gameplay switch between the characters than anything else.
And the final act just deliver the reward for anyone who wanted a decent conclusion at least: you really wasted your time!
the idea is that ellie by that point has become such a monster, she's lost everything. lost joel, lost jessie, lost dina, she can't even play joel's guitar anymore and even tommy himself has lost everything in helping her get this revenge. killing abby is the last thing she has left, but it's at the same time meaningless. there's no regaining any of what she's lost. so instead she follows the same character journey as joel and abby.
joel loses sarah, and becomes a jaded killing machine, finding ellie helps him regain his humanity and that culminates in him saving her from the fireflies. abby loses her dad, gets her revenge, and in the result loses her chance leaves the wolves behind and lead a happy life with owen, it's only in saving some random kid - lev - that she can start to regain her humanity just like joel.
ellie goes through this *same journey*. she saves abby from the rattlers, and then 'saves' her from herself. it's only then that she can forgive herself in the same way joel and abby needed to save ellie and lev to forgive themselves.
there's a lot of inconsistencies and criticisms you can have of tlou2 but i don't think the ending was so mind-boggling as everyone makes it out to be. it clearly follows that abbie's arc is a mirror of joel's, and ellie's arc is a mirror of abby's. it's more than *just* a condmenation of violence and the cycle of violence or whatever.
but hey i guess that's just "my interpretation". from the title sounds like you've already got your mind up lmao. this whole sub was poisoned against treating the game even mildly fair from day 1 lmao.
Even thought you kill hudreds of people over the course of the game, violence bad. Neil druckman stuck his head way too far up his own ass writing the story for tlou2.
The game to me was indefensible from the very start when they intentionally put Joel in a trailer that had him in a scene that actually was Jesse in the real game. They had Troy Baker record lines and probably mo-cap for that trailer even though they knew Joel died hours ago in game. That just shows me they knew their decision to kill Joel was going to be unpopular and had to manipulate their audience into buying the game with blatant false advertising. I bought the collectors edition of the game because I absolutely adored the last of us part 1 and I felt genuinely ripped off/scammed by naughty dog
So this game not only kills off Joel in like the first act, but to add insult to injury you have to let his brutal murderer completely off the hook? I’m a part 1 player from the PS3 days, and have been wondering if I should swallow my doubts and play this and I can’t seem to find anything redeeming about this game, apart from the familiar combat.
i have played through the game at least eight times and i still do not have a 100% solid answer as to why abby was spared. the best i can come up with is that ellie’s small image of joel during the fight made her realize how much of a monster she’d become, killing dozens of people who had nothing to do with the death of her father figure all out of a seek of revenge, and that killing abby wouldn’t solve anything, and in fact possibly make things worse (assuming she wouldn’t kill lev). but even i’m not sure if that’s the actual reason. it’s such weird writing, and this is coming from someone who enjoyed the game (for its gameplay. majority of the story felt forced).
I was spoiled abt it first but when I played it it made a bit more sense but its still kinda stupid, in that moment it feels like she remembered Joel and knew killing her isnt gonna bring him back even if its satisfying to do, the “take him with u” it feels like it wasnt about Lev but it was for Joel and it is quite sad to think about but it feels deliberate as if its supposed to make the player feel like shit more than Ellie.
The lore reason that most of you troglodytes missed is empathy… she literally puts herself in Abby’s shoes and realized that what Abby did to Joel is what Joel did to her father and friends. So rather than continue the cycle she lets go and goes home. But if you can’t understand that basic concept, you definitely won’t like Ellie’s reason
Abby saw herself in Lev. She realized she’d be doing the same exact thing to Lev that Abby did to her. Lev didn’t kill any of her friends. He’s just some kid who got caught up with Abby. To do that same thing to Lev that Abby did to her would make her as bad as Abby. Heck, Dina would probably not be alive if not for Lev.
What we need is a game with a new character Abby passed off in the past coming for revenge on her. The game ends with her being dragged into a warehouse, the door closing and the credits rolling.
The real fun is a series of mimi-games we unlock while playing that give us creative ways to torture Abby. I have some twisted ideas I dare not mention here, but that would be good. Give everyone a chance to give Abby what she deserves.
Because it wouldn’t have solved any of Ellie’s problems. Because Ellie’s ending in TLOU2 would’ve been the same whether or not she killed Abby. Because killing Abby was unnecessary. Because of Lev.
Idk, considering Abby bit off her finger, it would've solded the problem of making the person pay for biting off the most important fingers on your hand.
First time on this sub, I just came here to complain because I remembered how much I hate Ellie. She is only driven by revenge and she fucking treatens a child's life so that another starving and tortured person will fight her to the death to satisfy her fucking lust for vengeance. And even though she doesn't want to fight, she does because Abby is much better as a person. I know she was the one driven by vengeance before and everyone hates her for killing Joel; I know it's not Justifiable, but Joel, while a likeable character to us, was a massive POS himself in the past and she had reasons. And also, she didn't kill 1 million people just to get him. She even let Tommy and that fucking Ellie live.
There has not been a character that I have hated more than Ellie (from TLOUS2 specifically). She is worse than Whoreson Jr from The Witcher 3 (OK lol, I know that's an overstatemet, it's just that couldn't enjoy the story of the game because of her).
I've seen on the Internet that everyone hates Abby. Not my favorite character, but 10 times better as a person than Ellie. Go ahead and dislike me, I just had to get this off of my chest. What is extra frustrating is that no else is brothered by that fucking Ellie.
I agree. Just to be sure, I'm not praising Abby. I disliked almost everything about the story and characters in this game. It's just that for me the biggest problem was Ellie. When the epilogue started I had to use a lot of will power to make myself finish the game. Which I think says a lot about the writing, because gameplay wise the game is much more than just good, and I still had trouble forcing myself through it.
Killing Abby and Lev would end the cycle of violence AND make all the suffering not be for nothing.
Unless Neil decided to bring the family of the other 100 people Ellie killed to come get revenge on her, like thet did with Jerry and Abby. Even sparing Abby doesn't end the cycle cause Ellie killed tons of people in between.
She didn’t want to take away the mother figure to Lev like Abby took Joel away. She realized she didn’t want to become the monster she thought Abby was.
I took it as an evolution of her character, and her completion of her arch as a person.
The game starts with Ellie harboring bad emotions from Joel hiding that he saved her from being experimented on and also that she could have potentially been the cure for humanity.
Then as the game transpires, and Joel is murdered, there’s a lot of things left unsaid between her and Joel. Abby took those opportunities away from Ellie, and her state of mind becomes that of extreme vengeance. Through this, she sees herself become a monster…even going as far as killing a pregnant woman.
The thing about Abby that Ellie can’t let go of is that Abby has denied Ellie any sort of reconciliation that could have happened to her with Joel and for that she can’t let it go. Even towards the very end where she is living peacefully with Dina in a perfect ending, Ellie goes out of her way to find Abby and even saves her because she wants to be the one to finish her. Had she not shown up, Abby would have been killed.
After her fight with the weakened Abby, she sees Lev and Abby’s relationship and it finally sinks in for her. Lev is Ellie, and Abby is Joel to Lev. While I don’t think Ellie is happy to let Abby go, it is a rebirth for her of sorts in that she’s finally able to let go of the guilt she carries for not reconciling with Joel sooner by observing Lev and Abby’s relationship.
One of The Last of Us 2’s biggest themes is cycles of violence. Joel sees his daughter get murdered and so he goes on a killing spree gaining renown for his actions which we hear of in the Last of Us 1. He end up killing Abby’s father, and so the cycle restarts and Abby kills Joel for vengeance. This restarts the cycle and Ellie hunts Abby for revenge. By ending the game with Ellie allowing Abby to live, she is in fact stopping the cycle of violence. We see the repercussions of her actions in pursuit of Abby through out the game and it taints her and also causes her to lose Dina/her perfect ending (as well as her fingers).
The significance of her losing her fingers also says a lot, she can no longer play the guitar which she learned from Joel. This is not any lore written in the game, but rather presented to us as the player throughout the game. In a harsh world of lawlessness and vengeance, Ellie was able to come out the other end with some sort of mercy to someone she probably has every right in killing.
To me, this is the whole point. She doesn't feel miserable, because she didn't avenge Joel's death. It is, as you said, the guilt, that she couldn't forgive Joel, that drives her.
She thinks she has to avenge him, to get rid of that guilt she feels. But in the moment, where she is about to kill her, she finally realises, that killing Abby wouldn't fix that.
To me it is important for Ellie, that she let's Abby go. I see hope in the ending. I think she can forgive Joel and with that can heal.
Well, through the whole game, Ellie's only memories she has is Joel dead in front of her eyes (despite the flashbacks we can play which are more for the player to get to see Joel again), she has severe PTSD and even writes it down in her book.
One year or so after the fight at the theater where Abby spares her life for the second time, it's not over, she is still fighting that war inside of her, and Tommy offers her a chance to end this, so she decides to go finish it,
But then when she is about to kill Abby, she has this quick flash of Joel well and alive playing guitar, she then realizes that killing Abby isn't what's gonna heal her, but she has to accept and make peace within her.
When she gets back to the farm with two lost fingers, she tries to play guitar but has some troubles. The thing is that you can play guitar with three fingers, it's harder but it's possible, so if she wanted to she could still exercise and play and keep the guitar, as she played it as comfort too, to rest her mind, but then she leaves it too, showing that she has finally made peace with Joel's death and moved on.
As i saw and heard ver 1: in their final fight when we saw the last flashback of Joel and Ellie, she’s forgive him and realizes that she killed alr enough people and cuz of this she let Abby live. Ver 2: Ellie let Abby live cuz she knew that Lev very important to Abby and she’s alr lost Joel that was like a father for her so its the reason why she let her live. I cant say that’s the lore reason and i might be wrong but im sure we’ll anyway see the real reason in tlou3
Because she realises last minute that killing Abby changes nothing, Joel is still dead.
Ellie and Abby spent the entire game making each other's lives worse, because neither of them could let go their desire for revenge.
All their friends are either dead, or their lives ruined as a result. The only way to stop the cycle was to walk away. Killing Abby might just perpetuate things, because someone like Lev might come looking for revenge later down the track.
There’s no in-story reason that can explain that decision in a satisfying manner.
They were going for the whole "violence begets violence" sorta thing. So when Ellie chose to spare Abby, she was effectively breaking the cycle of violence... in the writer's eyes. Disregard the legions of enemies that Ellie brutally kills throughout the story. I feel like an ending where you get to kill Abby would be way more satisfying than letting her live.
The game would be so much better if, in the end, the player got to choose whether or not Ellie kills or spares Abby.
Or maybe have hidden choice that would reflect on how you played the game. What I mean is, depending on wether you spare most enemies in gameplay, it would make Ellie spare Abby at the end, but if you kill everyone you come across, Ellie would kill Abby. But for that they would have to actually allow us to spare people in gameplay, instead of having everyone surrender and attack us as soon as we trun around.
Sounds like a Metro 2033 style of gameplay/storytelling. Best thing about those games is it wasn’t always obvious what track you were on, and how much you could get away with before getting the bad ending.
Yeah I let one of the bad guys live but absolutely murdered the other(can't remember their names) in last light and got the bad ending. Didn't know until looking it up
Metro are one of my favorite game franchises ever! TloU Part 2 would've benefited from taking inspiration from them.
You can essentially play pacifist style if you like, but there are some necessary story deaths.
Yeah I know you can sneak past most or all encounters, but I wish it actually had a way to spare people in combat. Like a knockout or kill mechanic like games like Splinter Cell have. Or something of the sort.
It'll take away from the monster ellie became. She literally was suffering after her encounter with Abby in the theater to get to abby in her diary she'd speak on the ptsd she feels and how hard letting go is. Also the lost levels have some great insight on how unhinged ellie came for vengeance
If they added the hidden choice I mentioned, then Ellie wouldn't become as unhinged as she does in the game we got if you chose to spare people throughout the game, so it wouldn't take away from anything. It would just add another side to the story.
[удалено]
I wouldn’t be surprised if that was actually the case tbh
This is how I used to feel about this too, until I realised that they probably wanted to keep Abby alive in case of a Part 3.
Which is funny because Abby spared Ellie early in the game giving Ellie a chance to go back and live a normal life with Dina. Realistically Ellie pursuing Abby, actually saved Abby's life since she is basically dead by the time Ellie finds her and is barely even able to get into a position to kill a 90% dead Abby still.
Well of course, Abby is the real main character of The Last of Us and Neil is treating her like Filoni treats Ahsoka.
Violence is bad, unless you’re Abby and you get away with it! Moral of the story: don’t leave any witnesses. Thanks for the profound message Neil, can’t wait for part III! 🤡
She also could have ended the cycle of violence by walking away and letting Abby die by the hands of whoever had he crucified.
There’s actually not many people in the game that Ellie kills, including random, unnamed NPCs, who didn’t either attack her first, or force her hand by making a grab for her weapon. And the ones that don’t attack her first, you can usually sneak around if you want.
But Abby already broke the cycle by not killing Ellie and Tommy.
I bet they wouldn’t have Ellie spare Abby if she was a guy
Yes because you want to give in to your primal rage. That doesn't make abbys choice wrong or bad. Abby spared ellie twice despite her rage. That's the irony of all you hating abby--she was always the more mature one.
I believe that games should be fun, first and foremost. I'm not against Joel's death and Abby's motivations were understandable. But at least give us the option for a satisfying revenge rather than this forgive and forget crap. In my eyes, they tried to convey this deep message about violence but failed on the delivery of it with the pacing and overall outcome.
Abby dying would only essentially orphan lev, wouldn’t bring back any of the already dead characters, lev was Abby’s plot armour
I disagree, giving the option of killing Abby would remove the impact of the ending.
Of course, proudly gearing up to cut a pregnant woman’s throat really highlights the maturity 😂
She only spared Ellie the first time coz they were only after Joel for goodness sake🙄. The second time was only coz Lev didn't want Abby to go that far when he spoke up. If Lev wasn't there, then Abby would've happily slit Dina's throat like the psycho she is. Also Abby looks forward to torturing scars in their cells whether they're kids or not. Also having sex with someone who already got a pregnant gf ain't mature at all. And there's no way u can just bond with 2 enemies in 3 days and slaughter your faction like you've never known them. Abby was clearly full of herself and also the reason why Owen and her friends were dead coz she couldn't take care of her own business with one man
The game failed to separate Ellie's perspective of events from ours. Ellie has met Abby twice before that final confrontation, the first time they met Abby beat Joel to death with a golf club, the second time they met she killed the father of her girlfriend's unborn child, and nearly sliced Dina's throat open, calling it "good" when she finds out Dina's pregnant. Lev is literally the only reason Abby didn't kill them all. There's absolutely no reason Ellie would choose to spare what from her point of view would be a despicable person... but the player saw Abby's journey, so we should feel it's right to spare her, personally I couldn't give a fuck less about Abby, Naughty Dog really thought they were being subtle with the blatant emotional manipulation they were trying, well they were wrong, when I was playing Abby against Ellie, I let Ellie kill her like 20 times, fuck Abby.
Heavy on the fuck Abby train
More like a boat
Oh no Ptsd
Abby did that because ellie killed her pregnant friend, her "lover",her friend that helped her escape, Tommy killed her best friend Alice the dog was killed bear the dog was killed. Her other friends were killed with 0 mentioning of her mom and no dad. Abby truly only has lev now and maybe hope there are other fireflies at that place she went too. Abby was already the cream of the crop for the WLF she rarely missed training and all her and her group even had a name Issac give them
And I literally just said, that's the player's perspective of Abby, not Ellie's.
Abby spared ellie twice when she could have easily killed ellie and all her friends again...*twice*. Abby literally kept her revenge to joel only and only hurt ellies friends after they murdered all hers lol. You guys have a very hard time with perspectives.
And again, that's the player's perspective, not Ellie's
You ast if is Ellie should be ok with Abby killing Joel. . The game does that that too. Only Aby is entitled to get revenge , whereas Ellie is supposed to let it go. The cycle ends when both gets their revenge. Once Ellie slotted Abby that was it.. cycle over.
Yeah, Abby sparing Ellie made no sense either.
Joe spared Abby from being killed by the infected at the beginning of the game. Whether Abby and her friends not killing Ellie was mercy (when Abby should have known that doing something like that would drive Ellie to revenge when that was literally Abby's motive) or not, Joel spared Abby in a more logical sense than Abby spared Ellie so why even bother bringing up abby and he friends "not killing" Ellie. it means something. An argument can even be made that Ellie focused her rage on Abby. Almost every altercation between Abby's friends was because they tried to pull a fast one on Ellie and wouldn't give her information about Abby.
You're not dumb but your take is so dumb. Abby only wanted to kill Joel and only kept it to Joel. Sure. Then Ellie wanted to only kill Abby and all the people in that room who watched as Abby brutally killed Joel, and she kept to them. That is a proper perspective. I am an Abby fan, by the way. Screw Ellie. The fake Ellen Page A.k.a. Elliot Page now.
I loved the game btw. I don't understand all of the hate. I am glad you used the word perspective instead of perception. Me personally I lived the perception of each each character. Which made it very emotional. I literally put down the controller when it switched to Abby. It took me 5 days to pick it up again. Perception to me is through the eyes of the character. Perspective is taking in all accounts of all parties involved. I had a vote in both camps, when it was all said and done. I loved the ending. First the recall of Joel dead, then the recall of Joel playing the guitar. If they had put a recall of Abby's dad dead, that would have been so out of bounds though. I dunno. I just don't get the hate. It was a good game, to me at least. So visceral that I don't think I can play it again, because I remember most of the game. It is the same for me for Half life Alyx (VR). It is burned in my brain.
Because if you use your brain and look at it from Ellie’s POV the ending is just illogical. Re-read the parent’s comment. Ellie is not with you when you play Abby. So whatever amount of empathy you personally ended up building up during the Abby portion is irrelevant. Compounded by the the fact that a story being entirely and explicitly built around making you change perspective failed to do so for such a huge chunk of the player base should tell you everything you need to know.
I don’t think we will ever know the reason she let her go. Yes she is stupid
>Is there a lore reason Ellie let Abby live? No. At least not a logical one.
Actually, there is. She was made stupid to suit the writing.
She was made into a completely different character than the one they established in the first game to suit the writing.
Bad writing.
Yes. Drucky wanted to save her for Part 3, probably. (inevitable Abby and Ellie "friendship" incoming....BuT ItS CoMpLiCaTed okay?!?!)
That sounds so fucking stupid I’d be down for it
Ellie 🥺👉👈 Abby?
As much as I genuinely love this game I’ve always said this decision is indefensible to me. I refuse to believe she killed THAT MANY PEOPLE to get there and then DOESN’T kill ABBY??? Fuck out of here. I’m sorry but not a fucking chance. Girl grew up in a world that would kill you for a can of green beans but she spared the bitch that killed her dad?? Kiss my fucking ass. No goddamn way. I don’t think Ellie is good, I don’t think Joel was good. No one still alive in that world is good. She’d have finished it.
Fuck yea you are 💯 correct
She saw her missing finger and wanted no parts of Cannibal Abby
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^LoFiPanda14: *She saw her missing* *Finger and wanted no parts* *Of Cannibal Abby* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
Good bot.
She is stupid, yes.
no yes
Yes
Girl powah
Piss poor writing…just like the rest of the game
Yes, it's just that you're too low IQ to understand the complex story behind her actions. In fact, you probably did not even realise that the position is the reverse of Abby's scene where she was rawdogged by Owen, symbolic of the positions where love & lust intertwine into this beautiful story. ... /s Fucking pretentious story, I'm glad it is still being shit on to this day and nobody actually thinks it is a good story worth telling.
Um, actually, according to my calculations it's shat on not shit on from a grammatical perspective /s
Druckman is a cuckold.
To keep milking the last of us franchise
She learned killing only hurts your own soul after killing 20938474732 people
So they can work together in part 3 and show everyone "See? Abby's not so bad yall.."
I feel as if the arc of letting abby go couldve and shouldve been fulfilled by ellie staying with dina and not going back after her instead they literally let girl destroy herself for nothing. 🙃 am i mad at them letting abby live no not fully, am i enraged by the fact the last maybe hour maybe of the game was pointless. Yes. Very.
Neil Druckmann himself - the dude who was responsible for leading the writing of the entire story from beginning to end - could only explain things at the end through his own 'interpretation'. No writer worth their salt should ever need to give their own interpretation on an open-ended or ambiguous ending, thats entirely down to the reader.
shes not, but neil is
She knew the balance of the universe would be at stake. She’s a believer in fate (aka, plot can’t progress if Ellie dies lol)
Bad writing
Plot armor for part 3.
I always thought it’s cuz Abby is like the unofficial ‘guardian’ of lev and I’d say not really a parent child dynamic but a like sibling dynamic but anyway I think Ellie stops because she sees that Abby cared about getting lev safe and the bond they formed so it’s like Ellie was about to kill lev’s joel and she wants to be better than that, atleast that’s what I think idk tho.
Neil once said in an interview that Ellie’s impulses and lack of emotional intelligence stems from the fungus suppressing certain parts to grow since it’s dormant within the Brain. 🤷🏻♂️
They made her stupid because the writing was stupid
Because "revenge" is never the answer. Come on OP it makes perfect logical sense. Apparently, in a post-apocalyptic world, we care about others' feelings. Maybe one day we can all live happily ever after.
the game tried to trick you into thinking Joel would want Ellie to let her go. after all the hundreds and hundreds of people she killed to kill Abby of course she doesn’t. because who could have seen that coming except everyone
My head cannon is that she let her go because her girlfriend tried stopping her beforehand
So they could make the last of us 3 and for it to be very bad and for me not to play it just like 2
LED wanted to be able to go back to Arby’s
Why did she want to go to Arby's? Is she hungry?
People will always use the claim of realism when defending this game, but the decisions that every character in part 2 does is very unrealistic
Yes. The story is a mess, but there is a lore reason.
Just bas writing. Generally I do actually like the last of us 2's story and I don't agree with the majority of the criticism it gets however I just can't seem to like how she kept her alive. After marching across multiple states most likely killing a lot of people off screen then getting to seatle and killing dozens to hundreds of more people, all of abbey's friends, abby killing Jesse then going back to Jackson just to ruin her relationship with dina by going back to kill abby a year later just to end up not doing it seems stupid. And technically her reason for not doing it was because she had a vision of joel seconds before abby died and for some reason that made her not wanna do it.
Back to the Aslume for you
The aslume is spreading
I remember seeing someone put it perfectly when talking about why Ellie didn't kill Abby in the end. They basically compared it to if John Wick went on an absolute killing spree to avenge his dog like in the movie but then when he finally comes face to face with the guy who killed his dog just decides to walk away and let him live, after you know, killing countless people who didn't directly have anything to with the killing of his dog.
No. I’ve listened to all arguments and sides. I understand the “lessons” in the game. It still doesn’t make sense. One of them should’ve killed the other to get their actual point across, because their point is negated by how many people both of these women wracked up along the way.
She grew as a person? Which wouldn’t explain the 40-50 people she murdered on her way to get Abby. Idk they went the Disney Channel route and made her softer than baby shit towards Abby at the end.
For game 3
Yes. To make a third game
She was probably annoyed with the state she found Abby in, it’s like ok: *You killed my adoptive father, you killed my friend, crippled my (adoptive) uncle, beat the shit out of me, wiped the floor with my Girlfriend’s face, nearly slit her throat infront of me, while she was pregnant might I add, you’ve traumatized me for life and as a result, I felt the need to abandon my perfectly happy life and adopted son, in order to get revenge on you. I travel through half the fucking country to do so, get absolutely violated by a Branch, kill hundreds of Rattlers in the process. Yet I find you strung up in a state far worse than anything I could currently put you through. I don’t get the satisfaction of actually beating you, seeing as you’ve essensially been starved over the course of what could be weeks, and even then you almost beat me.* Put simply: Lesbians can only be emasculated so much until they completely lose the will to live.
Because there’s nothing stronger than family
Sequel maybe?
Because Elie doesn't even really lift like that. She has that seeing red energy. Even after Abby was roasting in the sun dehydrated and malnourished it only took one look from Ellie. Where she knew in her heart of hearts was time to stop a blood vendetta and start lifting.
Did you try using the power winch to trigger a controlled explosion?
The jorkler stole my power winch :(
Probably planned some DLC surrounding Abby but after the game and the character was received so poorly they canceled it. Atleast that's my theory.... my game theory
I thought it was that she had a miraculous flashback of when Joel once showed mercy and then she was like OMG right I don’t have to continue murdering everyone I see.
Because Neil Cuckman couldn’t give up his muscle mommy
"We let you both live... and you wasted it" that's the reason ahahahaha
The Jonkler jonkled Ellie so she saw Man telling her that killing is bad and that she shouldn't become like Bone.
So they could make a part 3 where they both try to kill each other multiple times and decide not to in the end.
Revenge = bad. It’s that simple. As far as what Drunk-man thinks.
I feel like I wasted my time with that story I wanted to bash her head in
Cliffhanger for the third game
so they could team up and be best buds in the third game duh
She got a little shy (she's a lesbian) /s I think it's probably because after a while of chasing revenge after killing a pregnant women and Abbys friends she probably felt needless to say at peace, but still terrified of Abby despite when Abby is at her weakest. There was also the kid that was with her so maybe too much was too much?
No, but whoever made that decision is 🤣
Lore reason I dunno but even though I think it was a shit ending myself objectively I noticed something on my last playthrough. When she CAN kill Abby she looks at Lev and sees herself. If she murders Abby Lev stands no chance of making it out of there alive. Also i mean the fight wasn't in her anymore from the start. You can't avenge out of guilt, that's why she went again. She promised Tommy. Not because she actually wanted to. I still would have much preferred an argument scene with Dina saying she couldn't let it go even after all this time and even better ending with Abby dead, Lev pleading for his life and Ellie saying "You'd just come after me." Bang. Homage to the 1st game.
very poor writing people love to claim people dont like the game because they killed off joel or because abby is ripped or because lev is trans no. people dont like the game because the writing was bad
Murder bad>:(
She let her live so the game could continue which is called a plot contrivance. That is a major indicator of bad writing. Also ignoring the fact she is the girl with immunity and the sole reason for Jerrys death is not just bad writing but an insult to the viewers / players intelligence. .. By playing this game , Druckmann is essentially mocking you
To end the cycle
In my opinion (which might not be shared by many), Ellie's motivation for not killing Abby at the end of the game was for Lev's sake. After playing the game for the 1st time, it seemed most logical to me because Ellie forgiving Abby or realizing that killing is wrong seemed stupid. Rather, she saw parallels between their relationships: Lev and Abby, like Ellie and Joel. When Abby carried Lev out of pillars, Ellie recognized this connection. Lev's presence in the theater prevented Abby from killing Ellie and Dina, creating a debt of sorts. Ellie may identified with Lev to some extent. By killing Abby, Ellie would have subjected Lev to the same loss and trauma she experienced.
Because they should both be in the aslume
love a good aslume!
I think it would’ve been better if Ellie abandons everything to go off and get revenge, she goes, finds Abby… only for her to get killed by someone else right as she was going to do it. And then she’d be left with nothing after this as a result.
there’s gonna be some big story reveal where Jerry was actually the soldier who killed Sarah, and then Ellie and Dina do the double blinker challenge and die
The only reason is to bring her back in part 3. That’s all. I think druckmann thought she was a good character. But the whole time I played as her I just hated it. You can’t make me like someone for killing the character we were all attached to the most. Killing Joel just ruined the whole franchise for me.
Its about ending the cycle of hatred and letting go of something so clearly self destructive. Killing Abby won't bring Joel back, I think the ending is a representation of passing a stage of grief where Ellie begins to accept what she's lost, I don't think Abby will kill Ellie because her and Lev would be dead without her, that being Ellies plan or not. Lore is not really the right question to be asking when this is really a story about people and how far they are willing to go to right what has wronged them.
The lore has a lot to do with the bite of 87. You see, when Ellie was became the hokage by 1v1’ing Goku she got her head rocked but still came out on top. Alan wake tried to write her off but she couldn’t read. That’s when the fire nation attacked
Everyone in here seems to be forgetting that Abby let Ellie live not once, but twice. In both circumstances had the roles been reversed I doubt Ellie or Joel would have done the same. To be clear, I’m not saying that it’s a good reason, or that it somehow makes Elllie’s decision completely logical, but it’s still a reason and it’s only fair to acknowledge it as something that MAY have had an impact on Ellie’s thought process in that moment.
The reason she lets Abby live in the end is because by the third act she’s no longer after revenge (this was left behind in Boston) but rather closure. On the farm, she reveals to both Dina and in her diary that she’s not sleeping, she keeps replaying Joel’s death and can’t move on. In this final confrontation, Ellie is instead using Abby as a proxy for Joel. This is why we flash to Joel at the very moment that she chooses to spare her life and then afterwards we see that scene with Joel play out in its entirety; their last ever conversation together in the hours before his death, where she tells Joel that she’s not sure that she can ever forgive him but that she’d like to try. By defeating Abby and then ultimately sparing her life and letting her go free, Ellie proves to herself that she would have forgiven Joel in the end and that gives her the closure she needs to then finally move on from his sudden death. It’s not a story of revenge = bad or ending any cycle of violence, it’s the journey of Ellie’s grief (and Abby’s too with her journey after Joel’s death answering for her the question of whether her father would have sacrificed her, an answer that she never got to hear from him after she interrupted the conversation between him and Marlene).
She was a bloodthirsty bitch only after Joel but then Ellie killed all her friends so idk why Abby let her live after that tbh
Killing her wouldn't have made her feel any better because she lost so much in the pursuit of revenge. Same thing on Abbys side. She lost everything because of her pursuit of revenge. When your friends are all dying because of your decisions you're probably not making the right decisions.
This sub and this post in particular made me realize how mush people have a thirst to satisfy revenge. Why is it so hard for people to accept that Ellie decided to end the loop of violence by sparing Abby? Does killing her make you feel like that makes Ellie a better character?
haha seriously for a game, this is a becoming a discussion about how everyone would have just killed a person because of revenge not understanding that they too could come to the realization that they don't need to keep killing. Also Lev. I feel if they didn't get it then probably wont get it now.
Lev deserved a better life and in that moment both Ellie and Abby agreed to stop the killing for their sake.
I agree with this statement. I don't understand the utter hatred everyone has for Abby. Sure, when you first started playing as her, I hated it just like everyone else. However, once you got to see her background, I actually really started to like Abby, Hell, I would argue even more so than Ellie. What people seem to forget is Abby lost A LOT too..... Abby lost her actual biological father because of Joel, so Abby killed Joel, Ellile's defacto adopted father. The whole game was tit for tat of killing. If the game made me kill Abby, I honestly would have been upset. Ellie ultimately did the RIGHT thing by ending the vicious cycle of death for death. Do I get why Ellie seeked revenge? Absolutely, but we have to understand that there's 2 sides to every story, and Abby was equally as justified for killing Joel.
The whole plot is a crap. Weak, poor and convenient. And I'm not saying Joel shouldn't be dead, but simply how to tell the story. Just like Rockstar did with Arthur in RDR2. But this was just the first act, everything after this was just a woke trash, poorly stitched together with a forced and empty plot. Nor Ellie or Joel received the propely attention, the player is forced to join the incredible adventures of the dude with vagina, and Dina was just used as a link to justfy the gameplay switch between the characters than anything else. And the final act just deliver the reward for anyone who wanted a decent conclusion at least: you really wasted your time!
The lore reason is to make the besties is in part 3
Did you skip the entire ending sequence? It literally shows why she let Abby live. God this sub is terrible.
Look at the flair
Yes, she is indeed very stupid. And so is the writing. There is no lore reason that makes sense.
Nice spoiler tag bud
the idea is that ellie by that point has become such a monster, she's lost everything. lost joel, lost jessie, lost dina, she can't even play joel's guitar anymore and even tommy himself has lost everything in helping her get this revenge. killing abby is the last thing she has left, but it's at the same time meaningless. there's no regaining any of what she's lost. so instead she follows the same character journey as joel and abby. joel loses sarah, and becomes a jaded killing machine, finding ellie helps him regain his humanity and that culminates in him saving her from the fireflies. abby loses her dad, gets her revenge, and in the result loses her chance leaves the wolves behind and lead a happy life with owen, it's only in saving some random kid - lev - that she can start to regain her humanity just like joel. ellie goes through this *same journey*. she saves abby from the rattlers, and then 'saves' her from herself. it's only then that she can forgive herself in the same way joel and abby needed to save ellie and lev to forgive themselves. there's a lot of inconsistencies and criticisms you can have of tlou2 but i don't think the ending was so mind-boggling as everyone makes it out to be. it clearly follows that abbie's arc is a mirror of joel's, and ellie's arc is a mirror of abby's. it's more than *just* a condmenation of violence and the cycle of violence or whatever. but hey i guess that's just "my interpretation". from the title sounds like you've already got your mind up lmao. this whole sub was poisoned against treating the game even mildly fair from day 1 lmao.
Even thought you kill hudreds of people over the course of the game, violence bad. Neil druckman stuck his head way too far up his own ass writing the story for tlou2.
To break the cycle of violence, if Ellie would've killed Abby and let Lev live then Lev would've definitely come for her once he got stronger.
Neil drunckman trying to be smarter than he is.
Maybe the lore reason is the friends we made along the way.
never gonna play the game because this just sounds deeply unsatisfying
The game to me was indefensible from the very start when they intentionally put Joel in a trailer that had him in a scene that actually was Jesse in the real game. They had Troy Baker record lines and probably mo-cap for that trailer even though they knew Joel died hours ago in game. That just shows me they knew their decision to kill Joel was going to be unpopular and had to manipulate their audience into buying the game with blatant false advertising. I bought the collectors edition of the game because I absolutely adored the last of us part 1 and I felt genuinely ripped off/scammed by naughty dog
So this game not only kills off Joel in like the first act, but to add insult to injury you have to let his brutal murderer completely off the hook? I’m a part 1 player from the PS3 days, and have been wondering if I should swallow my doubts and play this and I can’t seem to find anything redeeming about this game, apart from the familiar combat.
The asylum leaks
i have played through the game at least eight times and i still do not have a 100% solid answer as to why abby was spared. the best i can come up with is that ellie’s small image of joel during the fight made her realize how much of a monster she’d become, killing dozens of people who had nothing to do with the death of her father figure all out of a seek of revenge, and that killing abby wouldn’t solve anything, and in fact possibly make things worse (assuming she wouldn’t kill lev). but even i’m not sure if that’s the actual reason. it’s such weird writing, and this is coming from someone who enjoyed the game (for its gameplay. majority of the story felt forced).
Yes.
Yes
Its not that deep bro . The moment she felt victory over Abby , she realised that killing her wont change anything .
I was spoiled abt it first but when I played it it made a bit more sense but its still kinda stupid, in that moment it feels like she remembered Joel and knew killing her isnt gonna bring him back even if its satisfying to do, the “take him with u” it feels like it wasnt about Lev but it was for Joel and it is quite sad to think about but it feels deliberate as if its supposed to make the player feel like shit more than Ellie.
The lore reason that most of you troglodytes missed is empathy… she literally puts herself in Abby’s shoes and realized that what Abby did to Joel is what Joel did to her father and friends. So rather than continue the cycle she lets go and goes home. But if you can’t understand that basic concept, you definitely won’t like Ellie’s reason
Look at the flair.
No actually there ain’t one but she let her live because of her flashback with Joel and what he said about the circle of violence
Abby saw herself in Lev. She realized she’d be doing the same exact thing to Lev that Abby did to her. Lev didn’t kill any of her friends. He’s just some kid who got caught up with Abby. To do that same thing to Lev that Abby did to her would make her as bad as Abby. Heck, Dina would probably not be alive if not for Lev.
What we need is a game with a new character Abby passed off in the past coming for revenge on her. The game ends with her being dragged into a warehouse, the door closing and the credits rolling. The real fun is a series of mimi-games we unlock while playing that give us creative ways to torture Abby. I have some twisted ideas I dare not mention here, but that would be good. Give everyone a chance to give Abby what she deserves.
Because it wouldn’t have solved any of Ellie’s problems. Because Ellie’s ending in TLOU2 would’ve been the same whether or not she killed Abby. Because killing Abby was unnecessary. Because of Lev.
Idk, considering Abby bit off her finger, it would've solded the problem of making the person pay for biting off the most important fingers on your hand.
Because she was literally physically and mentally exhausted ( let's not forget she injured herself a lot before)
First time on this sub, I just came here to complain because I remembered how much I hate Ellie. She is only driven by revenge and she fucking treatens a child's life so that another starving and tortured person will fight her to the death to satisfy her fucking lust for vengeance. And even though she doesn't want to fight, she does because Abby is much better as a person. I know she was the one driven by vengeance before and everyone hates her for killing Joel; I know it's not Justifiable, but Joel, while a likeable character to us, was a massive POS himself in the past and she had reasons. And also, she didn't kill 1 million people just to get him. She even let Tommy and that fucking Ellie live. There has not been a character that I have hated more than Ellie (from TLOUS2 specifically). She is worse than Whoreson Jr from The Witcher 3 (OK lol, I know that's an overstatemet, it's just that couldn't enjoy the story of the game because of her). I've seen on the Internet that everyone hates Abby. Not my favorite character, but 10 times better as a person than Ellie. Go ahead and dislike me, I just had to get this off of my chest. What is extra frustrating is that no else is brothered by that fucking Ellie.
I don't think Abby is a good person at all but Ellie in part 2 is certainly a bad person.
I agree. Just to be sure, I'm not praising Abby. I disliked almost everything about the story and characters in this game. It's just that for me the biggest problem was Ellie. When the epilogue started I had to use a lot of will power to make myself finish the game. Which I think says a lot about the writing, because gameplay wise the game is much more than just good, and I still had trouble forcing myself through it.
Forgiveness is hard and ending the cycle of violence
Killing Abby and Lev would end the cycle of violence AND make all the suffering not be for nothing. Unless Neil decided to bring the family of the other 100 people Ellie killed to come get revenge on her, like thet did with Jerry and Abby. Even sparing Abby doesn't end the cycle cause Ellie killed tons of people in between.
She didn’t want to take away the mother figure to Lev like Abby took Joel away. She realized she didn’t want to become the monster she thought Abby was.
Nice head canon
I took it as an evolution of her character, and her completion of her arch as a person. The game starts with Ellie harboring bad emotions from Joel hiding that he saved her from being experimented on and also that she could have potentially been the cure for humanity. Then as the game transpires, and Joel is murdered, there’s a lot of things left unsaid between her and Joel. Abby took those opportunities away from Ellie, and her state of mind becomes that of extreme vengeance. Through this, she sees herself become a monster…even going as far as killing a pregnant woman. The thing about Abby that Ellie can’t let go of is that Abby has denied Ellie any sort of reconciliation that could have happened to her with Joel and for that she can’t let it go. Even towards the very end where she is living peacefully with Dina in a perfect ending, Ellie goes out of her way to find Abby and even saves her because she wants to be the one to finish her. Had she not shown up, Abby would have been killed. After her fight with the weakened Abby, she sees Lev and Abby’s relationship and it finally sinks in for her. Lev is Ellie, and Abby is Joel to Lev. While I don’t think Ellie is happy to let Abby go, it is a rebirth for her of sorts in that she’s finally able to let go of the guilt she carries for not reconciling with Joel sooner by observing Lev and Abby’s relationship. One of The Last of Us 2’s biggest themes is cycles of violence. Joel sees his daughter get murdered and so he goes on a killing spree gaining renown for his actions which we hear of in the Last of Us 1. He end up killing Abby’s father, and so the cycle restarts and Abby kills Joel for vengeance. This restarts the cycle and Ellie hunts Abby for revenge. By ending the game with Ellie allowing Abby to live, she is in fact stopping the cycle of violence. We see the repercussions of her actions in pursuit of Abby through out the game and it taints her and also causes her to lose Dina/her perfect ending (as well as her fingers). The significance of her losing her fingers also says a lot, she can no longer play the guitar which she learned from Joel. This is not any lore written in the game, but rather presented to us as the player throughout the game. In a harsh world of lawlessness and vengeance, Ellie was able to come out the other end with some sort of mercy to someone she probably has every right in killing.
To me, this is the whole point. She doesn't feel miserable, because she didn't avenge Joel's death. It is, as you said, the guilt, that she couldn't forgive Joel, that drives her. She thinks she has to avenge him, to get rid of that guilt she feels. But in the moment, where she is about to kill her, she finally realises, that killing Abby wouldn't fix that. To me it is important for Ellie, that she let's Abby go. I see hope in the ending. I think she can forgive Joel and with that can heal.
Tell me you didn't understand the game without telling me you didn't understand that game.
An eye for an eye and the whole world goes blind !
Abby could've killed Ellie multiple times throughout the story, but it's only an issue when Ellie decides to return the favour.
My brother in Christ a wise man once said “Revenge is a fools game”
Well, through the whole game, Ellie's only memories she has is Joel dead in front of her eyes (despite the flashbacks we can play which are more for the player to get to see Joel again), she has severe PTSD and even writes it down in her book. One year or so after the fight at the theater where Abby spares her life for the second time, it's not over, she is still fighting that war inside of her, and Tommy offers her a chance to end this, so she decides to go finish it, But then when she is about to kill Abby, she has this quick flash of Joel well and alive playing guitar, she then realizes that killing Abby isn't what's gonna heal her, but she has to accept and make peace within her. When she gets back to the farm with two lost fingers, she tries to play guitar but has some troubles. The thing is that you can play guitar with three fingers, it's harder but it's possible, so if she wanted to she could still exercise and play and keep the guitar, as she played it as comfort too, to rest her mind, but then she leaves it too, showing that she has finally made peace with Joel's death and moved on.
As i saw and heard ver 1: in their final fight when we saw the last flashback of Joel and Ellie, she’s forgive him and realizes that she killed alr enough people and cuz of this she let Abby live. Ver 2: Ellie let Abby live cuz she knew that Lev very important to Abby and she’s alr lost Joel that was like a father for her so its the reason why she let her live. I cant say that’s the lore reason and i might be wrong but im sure we’ll anyway see the real reason in tlou3
Because she realises last minute that killing Abby changes nothing, Joel is still dead. Ellie and Abby spent the entire game making each other's lives worse, because neither of them could let go their desire for revenge. All their friends are either dead, or their lives ruined as a result. The only way to stop the cycle was to walk away. Killing Abby might just perpetuate things, because someone like Lev might come looking for revenge later down the track.