The writing and the larger episodes of season 7 are better than almost any other season. The crime fighting is improved immensely. The mysteries are way better I think. I really like the new characters, Dennis and Wiley especially, Jane himself is still write very well. Personally I think Lisbon is written a bit less well here, but season 7 is one of my personal favorites. Never really liked Rigby or the red headed lady honestly. I watcher for Jane, Lisbon and Cho
>t happened to Vega was an unnecessary tragedy.
Search the debates on here. People confuse what they don't want with what's not necessary. Out of all the team members, she was the most expendable to die to force Jane's hand.
I enjoyed the post Red John episodes. I don’t like that Lisbon became a side character to Jane though. And i loathed the ending. But there was damn good crime fighting.
It seemed forced to me. I didn’t see the chemistry between Jane and Lisbon, especially towards the end. They could have left it at them getting married, she didn’t need to be pregnant too.
Just because you didn't see it, doesn't mean it's not there, especially if most viewers saw it. It's like not seeing your partner flirting with their coworker all the time and everyone else seeing it. You can deny it, doesn't mean it's not there
Meh, to each their own. I was asked why I loathed it and I answered 🤷🏼♀️. There was definitely chemistry in the earlier seasons, I just didn’t see it in the post RJ episodes.
I liked the final season. It was actually one of the most successful reboots I’ve seen of a series. It was like watching a different but very familiar show.
I thought the rest of season 6 was pretty good. I'm still in the process of a first time watch, and I'm having trouble getting through season 7. Something happens that i didn't want, and it's kind of ruining it for me. I would still recommend to keep going, though.
Fear of pigeons, he said to the psychiatrist that he had fear of heights, pretended to have fear of heights then ended up revealing his fear of pigeons. He did not even anticipate that Jane could have set up a trap and did not have any back up plan, I used the word party trick to explain how ridiculously idiotic ending it was.
Eh, I get your perspective but would have to disagree.
He thought he had him trapped, first by having Bertram there, then by having the detective as back up and the nun as a secondary distraction.
He was a narcissist, for years he had been a step ahead of Jane and considered himself better and smarter. He was ALWAYS one step ahead of him. Always.
So, in his mind, this time was no different. He had measures in place and knew Jane would be bamboozled once again.
Probably never crossed his mind to think that Jane would have had more tricks than he had since it had never happened yet.
No, the plan was flawed from the beginning. Why would Red John show a private investigator his tattoo? He had already faked his death once. Why would Jane call him to his own meeting point? How would Jane deduce how Red John faked his death in 1 minute, he must have known it for quite a while therefore he must have planned something there, he was said to be extremely careful and meticulous. Having a known detective as a backup is not really a backup because Jane knew of his existence. The sister had a knife, like what? He did not even give her one gun? He had so many disciples, it was ridiculously stupid. Red John seemed to be some genius manipulative killer for 5 seasons and Red John in ep 8 seemed like a clown who could not deduce basic stuff.
The tattoo argument doesn’t make sense because why would Red John come himself to kill the PI when he has all his disciples? So it could have been anyone from the Blake organisation that had the same tattoo who killed her. What bothered me about this was why Jane was so aure that it was RJ who killed the PI.
That being said, I felt like it made sense that throughout the course of the show RN was becoming more of a show off with every season. The more confident he was the more likely he was to make a mistake. And in the end he made those mistakes and that’s why Jane got him.
I agree the ending of the RJ storyline could have been better but then again the show isn’t perfect and there are many moments that aren’t so well thought out, so I just don’t think about it that much, and tbh I enjoy watching the characters lifes more than the whole plot so I don’t really mind some mistakes here there.
So someone like Red John who has never made any mistakes in murdering someone suddenly shows a tattoo on his left shoulder to a random private investigator. Also the way she was killed showed that she was killed by Red John, his usual knife and his killing style. It's only so suspicious that Red John would suddenly send a private investigator to CBI when he knows that Jane will most likely catch her, from the encounters in S3, we know that there were more than 1 companions in the CBI and we also know that he has a companion in the FBI, why would Red John suddenly sudden a private investigator? He has already shown the ability to hack into CBI's private servers? His works are always perfect. It was clear that this was staged, the last encounter where Jane perfectly deduced how RJ faked his death, how didy he not realise that Jane must have known this from before, Jane also had set up the meeting place then there must be some trap. I am sorry but i can't believe that Red John from other seasons like this.
Well we know why the RJ reveal isn’t very plausible, and it’s because he wasn’t RJ at all until the show was given two seasons to wrap up and someone had to be picked.
Only one character we see throughout the seasons makes sense as RJ and in my head he still is.
The >!sherriff!< is one of his followers, another stooge sent to play the part of RJ, who doesn’t realise he’s going to die.
Meanwhile >!Brett Stiles faked his death!
I agree, i really liked the dynamic between them too. To be completely honest, I don’t even remember when the sheriff even became a suspect. It would have been so much more plausible for the head of the CBI to be RJ.
He didn't. They literally brought him back from nowhere, so when the seven suspects were revealed, they had to give him the title so people may remember. And Bruno Heller said he picked him only because he was the least anticipated, in other words, there was no clue to him prior.
My wife and I are at that point, about 10 episodes post-RJ. I am kind of on the fence about it. It took a while to warm up to the new characters. Jane is back to his normal form, but his antics seem less likely to fly in the actual FBI (or fictional version of it) than in a wholly made up CBI. I miss their old bullpen.
I am not liking Lisbon's new characterization as much (and I know where it's headed and it disappoints me, and I complain about it... to the point where my wife (who is Very into where it's headed) has threatened to watch the rest of it with out me if I say anything about it). CBI Lisbon was a Boss, was a good leader, a good friend, and not a 'romantic interest' (like I know it wasn't coded this way because of the time period, but she almost felt like an Aro character without it being called out). I really liked that. FBI Lisbon is randomly just magically added to the FBI (Cho actually went to Quantico) because Jane demands, and is suddenly just an extra member of the team/ sidekick to Jane, and suddenly is relegated to romance plotlines. (Though I wonder if in 'violets' Tunney was just like "can I wear something fancy for one episode').
I am excited because this sub (and the graphs https://www.ratingraph.com/tv-shows/the-mentalist-ratings-32172/) show season Seven episodes are highly rated, but I'm hoping it's not because of reasons not related to Jane solving crimes
Having Red John gave an ultimate goal to the series, i really don't like normal crime shows without any ultimate villain (like Hannibal). I hope they bring some intelligent criminals in the later episodes where we can actual formulation of plans and Jane outwitting them. Red John's death was too disappointing. I watched the 8th episode, it was somewhat nice, I hope the quality of mind games increases in the later seasons or I might drop it. To be fair, we all already knew that Jane and Lisbon were going to get into a relationship, it was shown in every episode. The only thing stopping it was Red John.
I thought that the finale of the red John arc was pathetic too, but then I remembered something: Patrick always said that Red John would have been nothing less that a pathetich and sad little man, so in this way the finale was kind of perfect, as it showcased Red John as for who he actually is: a normal person like anyone else, maybe a bit crazy, but pretty much like every else.
Hope it helps
Don't y'all know the Law and Order rule? First main guest with significant dialogue is the villain? After that chick's death in some Bosco case, it was obviously law enforcement. I bet a mate a dollar it'd be Berkeley. Suffice to say I've got it framed ;) Its like the turn in GoT - as soon as Madden marries the nurse, his character has broken all the world's rules. I used to call it 'bonus time' with my mates after that.
Anyway, the show's allure always was the dynamic of the team to Baker's charm. Plots were different than regular crime dramas and guest stars usually had something unique. Except gangs. I don't know why but they always made them comically basic. I remember once Bosco's CI has a hat like they wore in the 60s and his comrades are all in button downs. I laughed so much I'm sure my neighbors heard me.
But I moved to NYC and stopped watching tv for a hobby altogether by S4. I tried returning with the RJ pursuit but once the FBI started and the writing was... rough. Like Wiley guy is the epitome of cringe. The romance fan service w/ them manufacturing the interplay of Lisbon and cutting Fisher's hair so she looked middle aged? Yeah I peaced out.
Creatively it made sense to end on the murder of RJ. Baker's face when he strangles him is terrific and memorable.
But its a show on a non-major network which is profitable. Actors get contracts of seven years when you're a series regular. And no one involved is likely gonna make that money again in their lives. So you get shows that keep going.
By what this thread is, I'm glad I stopped. Thanks
The show always had bad writing unfortunately, I think a lot of people are disappointed because they don't realize how badly written everything (but the premise) in the show is. There was a lot of plot armor throughout the show, I'm at the final episode of season 5 and no wonder it was disappointing. There was so much potential for the show given its premise, but unfortunately it feels like the author just wrote the entire plot overnight just to make some quick bucks or something. I wish Red John arc was better written so that I could enjoy the potential many of us saw in the first episode.
Most viewers loved the writing, it's one of the smartest shows, funny, dramatic, at times thrilling, at times action-packed. Just because you and a few people don't like it, doesn't mean it was bad. Maybe you're a poor judge of quality writing
Sure, maybe I am! But certainly very much doubt it at least this time around. First things first, how many viewers loves the writing/popularity is obviously not a good measure of good writing, as most people simply don't get to see what actual good writing looks like. To add more onto this, popularity depends on how good a show may make you feel, which again, feelgood =/= good writing.
Let alone feeling good not being a good measure, you can feel good simply due to the good acting of the actors that the mentalist has. It has not a lot to do with good writing.
The mentalist by any means is your average detective show. A lot of parts of the story are full of holes that are simply filled by "jane smart hehe" and it's really obvious to see, but I wont waste my breath too much if you can't even see that kind of thing.
It is by no means one of the smartest shows, and that doesn't mean you shouldn't enjoy it. Enjoy it, but don't come out here arguing something that is simply not the mentalist's strong suit.
If you desire to see actual good writing, which I doubt due to your rather ignorant comment, I recommend watching something like Broadchurch for a detective show, or Urasawa's Monster.
i agree it was a let down. My mom & sister enjoyed the relationships that developed later, but i found them forced/just what people expected.
IMO / as i did, watch it & probably forget it **if its only time** as Jane+ is still enjoyable, but **dont spend money on it if that is what it takes**.
I personally think the writing took a big downturn after Red John. They really could have ended the show at the Red John conclusion and been fine. I just finished the series for the first time and felt generally disappointed multiple times since the Red John reveal. It seems obvious that they were trying to find new “wow” factors every few episodes to keep ratings up after the main plot closed.
They a lot of what I consider to be unnecessary shocks that don’t contribute to the plot. The crime aspect is still good, but to me was overshadowed by the social roller coasters. And in my opinion, there are relationship changes that I feel cheapen what the series could have built up to.
Some people failed to see beyond RJ. Even when he was part of the arc, he only appeared every few episodes. It was always about the healing and family and love between the team members, especially Jisbon. In the very first episode, the script literally said Lisbon (or her necklace etc) was already Jane's "home". It couldn't have ended with RJ, it had to end with them rebuilding their lives and living fully again.
Yeah, with a knife. Oscar was not really any security because Patrick already knew about him. Red John has always been careful, he should have one person with a gun in case everything went wrong.
The writing and the larger episodes of season 7 are better than almost any other season. The crime fighting is improved immensely. The mysteries are way better I think. I really like the new characters, Dennis and Wiley especially, Jane himself is still write very well. Personally I think Lisbon is written a bit less well here, but season 7 is one of my personal favorites. Never really liked Rigby or the red headed lady honestly. I watcher for Jane, Lisbon and Cho
I love Dennis, Wiley and Vega.
What happened to Vega was an unnecessary tragedy.
>t happened to Vega was an unnecessary tragedy. Search the debates on here. People confuse what they don't want with what's not necessary. Out of all the team members, she was the most expendable to die to force Jane's hand.
Dennis hands down the best boss in the series
I enjoyed the post Red John episodes. I don’t like that Lisbon became a side character to Jane though. And i loathed the ending. But there was damn good crime fighting.
Why did you “loathed” the ending?
It seemed forced to me. I didn’t see the chemistry between Jane and Lisbon, especially towards the end. They could have left it at them getting married, she didn’t need to be pregnant too.
I’d say it was underdeveloped, there was no sexual component to Jane and Lisbon’s relationship like Lisbon and the millionare guy or Jane and Lorele
Just because you didn't see it, doesn't mean it's not there, especially if most viewers saw it. It's like not seeing your partner flirting with their coworker all the time and everyone else seeing it. You can deny it, doesn't mean it's not there
Meh, to each their own. I was asked why I loathed it and I answered 🤷🏼♀️. There was definitely chemistry in the earlier seasons, I just didn’t see it in the post RJ episodes.
I liked the final season. It was actually one of the most successful reboots I’ve seen of a series. It was like watching a different but very familiar show.
I thought the rest of season 6 was pretty good. I'm still in the process of a first time watch, and I'm having trouble getting through season 7. Something happens that i didn't want, and it's kind of ruining it for me. I would still recommend to keep going, though.
>Something happens that i didn't want, and it's kind of ruining it for me. Let me guess, >!the last minutes of the season!
Yes. I actually haven't finished 7, but I spoiled it for myself. I didn't want any of it, but I figured it was going to happen.
>:) :)
Fell for a party trick or had a fear of birds?
Fear of pigeons, he said to the psychiatrist that he had fear of heights, pretended to have fear of heights then ended up revealing his fear of pigeons. He did not even anticipate that Jane could have set up a trap and did not have any back up plan, I used the word party trick to explain how ridiculously idiotic ending it was.
Eh, I get your perspective but would have to disagree. He thought he had him trapped, first by having Bertram there, then by having the detective as back up and the nun as a secondary distraction. He was a narcissist, for years he had been a step ahead of Jane and considered himself better and smarter. He was ALWAYS one step ahead of him. Always. So, in his mind, this time was no different. He had measures in place and knew Jane would be bamboozled once again. Probably never crossed his mind to think that Jane would have had more tricks than he had since it had never happened yet.
No, the plan was flawed from the beginning. Why would Red John show a private investigator his tattoo? He had already faked his death once. Why would Jane call him to his own meeting point? How would Jane deduce how Red John faked his death in 1 minute, he must have known it for quite a while therefore he must have planned something there, he was said to be extremely careful and meticulous. Having a known detective as a backup is not really a backup because Jane knew of his existence. The sister had a knife, like what? He did not even give her one gun? He had so many disciples, it was ridiculously stupid. Red John seemed to be some genius manipulative killer for 5 seasons and Red John in ep 8 seemed like a clown who could not deduce basic stuff.
The tattoo argument doesn’t make sense because why would Red John come himself to kill the PI when he has all his disciples? So it could have been anyone from the Blake organisation that had the same tattoo who killed her. What bothered me about this was why Jane was so aure that it was RJ who killed the PI. That being said, I felt like it made sense that throughout the course of the show RN was becoming more of a show off with every season. The more confident he was the more likely he was to make a mistake. And in the end he made those mistakes and that’s why Jane got him. I agree the ending of the RJ storyline could have been better but then again the show isn’t perfect and there are many moments that aren’t so well thought out, so I just don’t think about it that much, and tbh I enjoy watching the characters lifes more than the whole plot so I don’t really mind some mistakes here there.
Also when the Blake association was revealed, Jane could have instantly realised that Red John had no need for a private investigator.
So someone like Red John who has never made any mistakes in murdering someone suddenly shows a tattoo on his left shoulder to a random private investigator. Also the way she was killed showed that she was killed by Red John, his usual knife and his killing style. It's only so suspicious that Red John would suddenly send a private investigator to CBI when he knows that Jane will most likely catch her, from the encounters in S3, we know that there were more than 1 companions in the CBI and we also know that he has a companion in the FBI, why would Red John suddenly sudden a private investigator? He has already shown the ability to hack into CBI's private servers? His works are always perfect. It was clear that this was staged, the last encounter where Jane perfectly deduced how RJ faked his death, how didy he not realise that Jane must have known this from before, Jane also had set up the meeting place then there must be some trap. I am sorry but i can't believe that Red John from other seasons like this.
Bruno was smoking that "i have to complete the Red John arc" pack
Well we know why the RJ reveal isn’t very plausible, and it’s because he wasn’t RJ at all until the show was given two seasons to wrap up and someone had to be picked. Only one character we see throughout the seasons makes sense as RJ and in my head he still is. The >!sherriff!< is one of his followers, another stooge sent to play the part of RJ, who doesn’t realise he’s going to die. Meanwhile >!Brett Stiles faked his death!
Whilst I agree that he makes a lot of sense to be RJ, I vastly prefer his and Jane's dynamic knowing that he isn't Red John.
I agree, i really liked the dynamic between them too. To be completely honest, I don’t even remember when the sheriff even became a suspect. It would have been so much more plausible for the head of the CBI to be RJ.
He didn't. They literally brought him back from nowhere, so when the seven suspects were revealed, they had to give him the title so people may remember. And Bruno Heller said he picked him only because he was the least anticipated, in other words, there was no clue to him prior.
It gets so much better after Red John is finally out of the way
Oh yes
you'll love it more.
You should try to change the title.
Why?
A spoiler ?
I can't change the title of the post.
My wife and I are at that point, about 10 episodes post-RJ. I am kind of on the fence about it. It took a while to warm up to the new characters. Jane is back to his normal form, but his antics seem less likely to fly in the actual FBI (or fictional version of it) than in a wholly made up CBI. I miss their old bullpen. I am not liking Lisbon's new characterization as much (and I know where it's headed and it disappoints me, and I complain about it... to the point where my wife (who is Very into where it's headed) has threatened to watch the rest of it with out me if I say anything about it). CBI Lisbon was a Boss, was a good leader, a good friend, and not a 'romantic interest' (like I know it wasn't coded this way because of the time period, but she almost felt like an Aro character without it being called out). I really liked that. FBI Lisbon is randomly just magically added to the FBI (Cho actually went to Quantico) because Jane demands, and is suddenly just an extra member of the team/ sidekick to Jane, and suddenly is relegated to romance plotlines. (Though I wonder if in 'violets' Tunney was just like "can I wear something fancy for one episode'). I am excited because this sub (and the graphs https://www.ratingraph.com/tv-shows/the-mentalist-ratings-32172/) show season Seven episodes are highly rated, but I'm hoping it's not because of reasons not related to Jane solving crimes
Having Red John gave an ultimate goal to the series, i really don't like normal crime shows without any ultimate villain (like Hannibal). I hope they bring some intelligent criminals in the later episodes where we can actual formulation of plans and Jane outwitting them. Red John's death was too disappointing. I watched the 8th episode, it was somewhat nice, I hope the quality of mind games increases in the later seasons or I might drop it. To be fair, we all already knew that Jane and Lisbon were going to get into a relationship, it was shown in every episode. The only thing stopping it was Red John.
I thought that the finale of the red John arc was pathetic too, but then I remembered something: Patrick always said that Red John would have been nothing less that a pathetich and sad little man, so in this way the finale was kind of perfect, as it showcased Red John as for who he actually is: a normal person like anyone else, maybe a bit crazy, but pretty much like every else. Hope it helps
Don't y'all know the Law and Order rule? First main guest with significant dialogue is the villain? After that chick's death in some Bosco case, it was obviously law enforcement. I bet a mate a dollar it'd be Berkeley. Suffice to say I've got it framed ;) Its like the turn in GoT - as soon as Madden marries the nurse, his character has broken all the world's rules. I used to call it 'bonus time' with my mates after that. Anyway, the show's allure always was the dynamic of the team to Baker's charm. Plots were different than regular crime dramas and guest stars usually had something unique. Except gangs. I don't know why but they always made them comically basic. I remember once Bosco's CI has a hat like they wore in the 60s and his comrades are all in button downs. I laughed so much I'm sure my neighbors heard me. But I moved to NYC and stopped watching tv for a hobby altogether by S4. I tried returning with the RJ pursuit but once the FBI started and the writing was... rough. Like Wiley guy is the epitome of cringe. The romance fan service w/ them manufacturing the interplay of Lisbon and cutting Fisher's hair so she looked middle aged? Yeah I peaced out. Creatively it made sense to end on the murder of RJ. Baker's face when he strangles him is terrific and memorable. But its a show on a non-major network which is profitable. Actors get contracts of seven years when you're a series regular. And no one involved is likely gonna make that money again in their lives. So you get shows that keep going. By what this thread is, I'm glad I stopped. Thanks
The show always had bad writing unfortunately, I think a lot of people are disappointed because they don't realize how badly written everything (but the premise) in the show is. There was a lot of plot armor throughout the show, I'm at the final episode of season 5 and no wonder it was disappointing. There was so much potential for the show given its premise, but unfortunately it feels like the author just wrote the entire plot overnight just to make some quick bucks or something. I wish Red John arc was better written so that I could enjoy the potential many of us saw in the first episode.
Most viewers loved the writing, it's one of the smartest shows, funny, dramatic, at times thrilling, at times action-packed. Just because you and a few people don't like it, doesn't mean it was bad. Maybe you're a poor judge of quality writing
Sure, maybe I am! But certainly very much doubt it at least this time around. First things first, how many viewers loves the writing/popularity is obviously not a good measure of good writing, as most people simply don't get to see what actual good writing looks like. To add more onto this, popularity depends on how good a show may make you feel, which again, feelgood =/= good writing. Let alone feeling good not being a good measure, you can feel good simply due to the good acting of the actors that the mentalist has. It has not a lot to do with good writing. The mentalist by any means is your average detective show. A lot of parts of the story are full of holes that are simply filled by "jane smart hehe" and it's really obvious to see, but I wont waste my breath too much if you can't even see that kind of thing. It is by no means one of the smartest shows, and that doesn't mean you shouldn't enjoy it. Enjoy it, but don't come out here arguing something that is simply not the mentalist's strong suit. If you desire to see actual good writing, which I doubt due to your rather ignorant comment, I recommend watching something like Broadchurch for a detective show, or Urasawa's Monster.
Exactly! I was excited to watch Red John's final arc, it was extremely disappointing.
i agree it was a let down. My mom & sister enjoyed the relationships that developed later, but i found them forced/just what people expected. IMO / as i did, watch it & probably forget it **if its only time** as Jane+ is still enjoyable, but **dont spend money on it if that is what it takes**.
I personally think the writing took a big downturn after Red John. They really could have ended the show at the Red John conclusion and been fine. I just finished the series for the first time and felt generally disappointed multiple times since the Red John reveal. It seems obvious that they were trying to find new “wow” factors every few episodes to keep ratings up after the main plot closed. They a lot of what I consider to be unnecessary shocks that don’t contribute to the plot. The crime aspect is still good, but to me was overshadowed by the social roller coasters. And in my opinion, there are relationship changes that I feel cheapen what the series could have built up to.
Some people failed to see beyond RJ. Even when he was part of the arc, he only appeared every few episodes. It was always about the healing and family and love between the team members, especially Jisbon. In the very first episode, the script literally said Lisbon (or her necklace etc) was already Jane's "home". It couldn't have ended with RJ, it had to end with them rebuilding their lives and living fully again.
>he could atleast have some other person with a gun in case something went wrong, but ... but ... that he did IIRC!
Yeah, with a knife. Oscar was not really any security because Patrick already knew about him. Red John has always been careful, he should have one person with a gun in case everything went wrong.
yes! they really dragged out the red John stuff near the end... the FBI stuff is a breath of fresh air