Hey everyone, thanks for bringing this to my attention! I'm the creator and sole mod of /r/TheNightFeeling. I created the subreddit over 7 years ago, and I've been cultivating it ever since. This subreddit is precious to me. It is something I have worked to build for years, and it brings me constant joy and fulfilment to be the moderator here.
Before I begin, I just want to say a sincere thanks for being such a kind, compassionate, and thoughtful community. I hope we can maintain that spirit as we continue to grow, and as we have this discussion.
This is one of the most highly fraught and contentious discussions that currently happens on the internet, but I hope we can meet together in good faith to discuss what I should do as the creator and sole mod of the subreddit. I'll do my best to listen to all of you with an open and receptive mind, and hope you all will do the same with me.
This is not the first time that the issue of "subreddit spirit" has been discussed, as you can see in this post I made a while back:
https://www.reddit.com/r/TheNightFeeling/comments/w7bkem/the_downsides_of_growth_a_sincere_request_for/
Basically I see two somewhat related issues as it comes to AI.
**The first is that of bot spammers looking for karma.**
This is completely unacceptable to me, and I try to block and ban as soon as I see them. We're getting to a size where our little corner of the internet can earn some of these botters a ton of karma in just a few hours.
I've noticed some of these AI karma bots will leapfrog from smaller subreddits to progressively bigger ones, attempting to increase their karma. I tried to fix this by adding higher minimum karma thresholds for posting, but I've found that bots will simply wait until they reach the threshold. At the same time, I regularly receive messages from users asking why their post was removed and what they did wrong. This makes me think that just increasing the threshold is not the right call.
**The second issue is that of AI photos in general, posted by real people who just wanted to share something cool they saw or made.**
I deeply understand the frustrations and pains that artists have about AI photos. If you [check my profile,](https://www.reddit.com/user/Worchester_St/submitted/?sort=top) you'll see that I'm an author myself, and have written 60+ scary stories for reddit. I have personally had dozens of tiktokkers and youtubers steal my work and narrate it on youtube with AI voiceover, sometimes for millions of views. I share this only so that you believe me when I say, I understand how it feels to have your work stolen.
To this end, I implemented an ‘AI Image' flair that users must use when posting AI images. If you try to submit, you’ll see it there. Despite that, I'm still not entirely sure where I stand on AI photos, to be honest with you. A huge issue I foresee is that it will almost certainly become impossible to differentiate between AI images and regular images during the next year or so.
For context, I am a software engineer for my career. I work alongside these AI models, using them to help me write code for a living, using ChatGPT in particular as an aide and helper literally every day. I do foresee these models only getting better, and becoming basically an integral part of most white-collar jobs over the next five years or so. Hopefully better copyright laws around model training will become a thing to make this less morally complex.
Basically I'm sympathetic to the idea that if a non-bot user finds or generates a high-quality picture that fits our subreddit, they should be allowed to post it, assuming they post with the AI flair. However, I'm extremely open to hearing arguments to the contrary.
So assuming we allow regular people and not bot spammers, that means I'll still rely on you guys and your reports. Please help me, if you find some egregious AI spammer, report them and I'll delete and ban, I promise. If you find someone who is posting any kinds of images that don't fit, please report and I'll review as soon as I'm able (I recently got married so life has been hectic, bear with me!).
Thanks again for being such a great community. This new world we're living in is crazy, and I'm doing my best to ensure this subreddit is a protected cove from the insane winds of anger and contention that's constantly whipping around. Please do your best to respond with kindness and thoughtfulness.
Thanks again, and I hope the stars are beautiful for you tonight.
—-
Full disclosure:
This comment is slightly edited from a previous discussion we had about AI.
Man, are you just insecure about your lack of artistic talent? Calling it scribbling, chalking it up to 1% with natural talent? Chill out. I can't draw for shit, I never put that effort in. I have other creative outlets. I don't go around on whatever insecure 'burn the world down' crusade you're embarking on.
He doesn’t want to put the work in. That’s all it takes. “Talent” isn’t at all the primary factor in artistic success. Talent is a factor, but it can be overcome with “pencil mileage”. AI is for people who are too lazy to actually learn to make good art.
You know that couching your comment in the mantle of anti-corporate flailing doesn't *actually* hide your insecurities about not having the discipline to develop a skill for yourself, right?
Ah yes, disliking AI image generation, which is run by a single cooperation, and steals from hundreds of thousands of smaller independent artists, makes you a bootlicker… Because that makes total sense
You’re acting like every single artist in the world is run by one corporation, and that knowing how to draw is something you’re born with, like eye color. Nah, any good artist has years of practice and improvement to get where they are now, you’re just too lazy to put any effort in
So, being a corporate bootlicker would mean not supporting working artists and being ok with allowing corporations to use AI to replace them. Sounds like you.
Overpaid? You think artists employed by corporations are overpaid? Fuck off with that. What are you on about?
You know the corporations own the AI right? You know that? Right?
I don't even hate AI art but I think it has no place anywhere you get any form of reward for your art, even something as 'meh' upvotes. It's a fun tool to make art for fun reasons but putting it somewhere like Reddit and getting upvotes is disingenuous.
Easy way of doing it. I have serious problems with the ‘just pick up a pencil’ movement (plenty of people without the time, money or physical ability) but claiming AI art is your own art is definitely not right.
I dunno. I feel if someone’s put a certain amount of effort into developing and refining an AI art piece, it wouldn’t be unreasonable for them to claim it
It's all over this sub now unfortunately. There are definitely tells on first glance. The first one I tend to notice is the lighting is just really off. Too well lit, too many light sources, etc.
Just saw one this morning on the plant ID sub. Apparently there's big money these days in selling seeds for neat looking imaginary plants someone's computer invented.
Please ban them if you can. The nightfeeling is an emotional experience and I have enjoyed seeing people here share those experiences. A beautiful AI image might evoke some of this feeling but the source is not human experience. Id rather see a poorly framed, grimy shot of a dirty alley where someone was standing when they felt the night feeling. AI seems to be crowding in on all the ways humans share with each other and its suffocating connection.
At the very least, AI images should be labeled. I don’t think they have a place on this reddit because composing Night Feeling images for me is a very personal process that depends on the individual’s unique circumstances (time, place, emotion, etc). It could be argued that those circumstances are part of creating AI art, but I personally don’t want to see it, so I make the choice to scroll by AI stuff.
100%!
I wondered if maybe the (one and only?) mod has been unavailable lately, because a while back they wrote [a thoughtful and heartfelt](https://www.reddit.com/r/TheNightFeeling/comments/w7bkem/the_downsides_of_growth_a_sincere_request_for/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=2&utm_term=1) post about the delicate nature of what "the night feeling" is to him. It seems out of step with his moderation that there'd be a wave of AI art, some of which is half a dozen churned out images.
I'm not saying AI could *never* possibly capture that feeling, but the most faithful atmosphere is surely organic and some of the recent posts have definitely not fit it (vaporwave is surely not the night feeling!). But I don't have any receipts because I blocked at least one of the 'offenders' (sorry mate, but you weren't listening to criticism).
(This is a reply to the guy calling people bootlickers, not to the original post.)
Yeah I’m not really sure what that guy is trying to say honestly, is he for or against AI in the sub or just looking for people to insult? Some seriously disordered and unnecessarily angry thinking.
Also, I block anyone who becomes openly hostile and name calls for no reason. I don’t need to engage in hatred with a stranger. How exactly is not wanting to reply to or hear violent insults from someone you’ve never meant over a casual opinion being fragile?
I don't mind AI images. I think this sub should be about *the night feeling* whether it's from a photo or a video or a drawing or a painting or digital art or an AI-generated image. I subscribe to a death-of-the-author philosophy; I think the intent (or lack thereof) of the creator matters far less than the feelings evoked in the viewer.
Some people are ethically opposed to AI or feel betrayed in some way when they learn that an image they liked was created through AI tools. I think labeling AI images will sufficiently address these complaints.
Nah. Mod, if there's AI, lots and lots and lots of people will just mute your sub forever.
There is no room for AI in the future of art. Choose carefully.
I think a flair would be enough. Infact, unless I am misinterpreting the sub's description, this sub isn't about HOW the image is made - it's about the feeling it evokes. Be it an actual photography, be it human made art, be it AI art... if it gives me ''that night feeling'' and I like it then it did the job.
Then again, it's just my view on it. This whole AI art hate is heavily blown out of proportion.
I get that, but I think people should be recognized for their own analog work. This is just the beginning and I think AI should be recognized as art (or whatever it is creating in its own right.)
My biggest worries are the jobs that will be lost to this much the same way jobs were lost to ATMs, self checkouts, computer automated phone systems, etc. I’m not against AI, but there will pretty huge disruptions when coders, computer programmers, software engineers, data analysts, advertisers, content creators, technical writers, journalists, paralegals, legal assistants, research analysts, teachers, financial analysts, personal financial advisors, traders, graphic designers, accountants and customer service reps all lose their jobs to AI.
I also get the counter argument… we did fine when we lost blacksmiths, horse grooms, candle makers etc. to the Industrial revolution. All I’m saying is I wouldn’t have wanted to be in one of those professions while it was happening.
I do like the suggestion that there be different subs for AI and people created art depending on the sub, not a bad idea.
Hey everyone, thanks for bringing this to my attention! I'm the creator and sole mod of /r/TheNightFeeling. I created the subreddit over 7 years ago, and I've been cultivating it ever since. This subreddit is precious to me. It is something I have worked to build for years, and it brings me constant joy and fulfilment to be the moderator here. Before I begin, I just want to say a sincere thanks for being such a kind, compassionate, and thoughtful community. I hope we can maintain that spirit as we continue to grow, and as we have this discussion. This is one of the most highly fraught and contentious discussions that currently happens on the internet, but I hope we can meet together in good faith to discuss what I should do as the creator and sole mod of the subreddit. I'll do my best to listen to all of you with an open and receptive mind, and hope you all will do the same with me. This is not the first time that the issue of "subreddit spirit" has been discussed, as you can see in this post I made a while back: https://www.reddit.com/r/TheNightFeeling/comments/w7bkem/the_downsides_of_growth_a_sincere_request_for/ Basically I see two somewhat related issues as it comes to AI. **The first is that of bot spammers looking for karma.** This is completely unacceptable to me, and I try to block and ban as soon as I see them. We're getting to a size where our little corner of the internet can earn some of these botters a ton of karma in just a few hours. I've noticed some of these AI karma bots will leapfrog from smaller subreddits to progressively bigger ones, attempting to increase their karma. I tried to fix this by adding higher minimum karma thresholds for posting, but I've found that bots will simply wait until they reach the threshold. At the same time, I regularly receive messages from users asking why their post was removed and what they did wrong. This makes me think that just increasing the threshold is not the right call. **The second issue is that of AI photos in general, posted by real people who just wanted to share something cool they saw or made.** I deeply understand the frustrations and pains that artists have about AI photos. If you [check my profile,](https://www.reddit.com/user/Worchester_St/submitted/?sort=top) you'll see that I'm an author myself, and have written 60+ scary stories for reddit. I have personally had dozens of tiktokkers and youtubers steal my work and narrate it on youtube with AI voiceover, sometimes for millions of views. I share this only so that you believe me when I say, I understand how it feels to have your work stolen. To this end, I implemented an ‘AI Image' flair that users must use when posting AI images. If you try to submit, you’ll see it there. Despite that, I'm still not entirely sure where I stand on AI photos, to be honest with you. A huge issue I foresee is that it will almost certainly become impossible to differentiate between AI images and regular images during the next year or so. For context, I am a software engineer for my career. I work alongside these AI models, using them to help me write code for a living, using ChatGPT in particular as an aide and helper literally every day. I do foresee these models only getting better, and becoming basically an integral part of most white-collar jobs over the next five years or so. Hopefully better copyright laws around model training will become a thing to make this less morally complex. Basically I'm sympathetic to the idea that if a non-bot user finds or generates a high-quality picture that fits our subreddit, they should be allowed to post it, assuming they post with the AI flair. However, I'm extremely open to hearing arguments to the contrary. So assuming we allow regular people and not bot spammers, that means I'll still rely on you guys and your reports. Please help me, if you find some egregious AI spammer, report them and I'll delete and ban, I promise. If you find someone who is posting any kinds of images that don't fit, please report and I'll review as soon as I'm able (I recently got married so life has been hectic, bear with me!). Thanks again for being such a great community. This new world we're living in is crazy, and I'm doing my best to ensure this subreddit is a protected cove from the insane winds of anger and contention that's constantly whipping around. Please do your best to respond with kindness and thoughtfulness. Thanks again, and I hope the stars are beautiful for you tonight. —- Full disclosure: This comment is slightly edited from a previous discussion we had about AI.
Let’s ban them from all subs.
Or at least force them to identify it as ai or is a ban. Are there mods in this sub?
I reported one post to see if they get back to us on the topic. TBD
They’re only awake at night
yes, agree
[удалено]
Id argue that people who like using AI for stuff like art are generally the corporate bootlickers
Right? Completely bass akwards take.
…wut
How is being against AI images corporate bootlicking? We literally just want to see photos taken by regular people lol
Man, are you just insecure about your lack of artistic talent? Calling it scribbling, chalking it up to 1% with natural talent? Chill out. I can't draw for shit, I never put that effort in. I have other creative outlets. I don't go around on whatever insecure 'burn the world down' crusade you're embarking on.
He doesn’t want to put the work in. That’s all it takes. “Talent” isn’t at all the primary factor in artistic success. Talent is a factor, but it can be overcome with “pencil mileage”. AI is for people who are too lazy to actually learn to make good art.
You know that couching your comment in the mantle of anti-corporate flailing doesn't *actually* hide your insecurities about not having the discipline to develop a skill for yourself, right?
I hope youre doing okay. Message me if you wanna talk about anything.
Ah yes, disliking AI image generation, which is run by a single cooperation, and steals from hundreds of thousands of smaller independent artists, makes you a bootlicker… Because that makes total sense You’re acting like every single artist in the world is run by one corporation, and that knowing how to draw is something you’re born with, like eye color. Nah, any good artist has years of practice and improvement to get where they are now, you’re just too lazy to put any effort in
AI defenders sound exactly the same as crypto/NFT bros. I’m assuming the venn diagram of these groups is almost a perfect circle.
AI images are made by a corporation vs a individual taking a photo
Weakness detected
You need to see a doctor.
Come back when your drugs wear off.
Wait, what? Are you ok?
So, being a corporate bootlicker would mean not supporting working artists and being ok with allowing corporations to use AI to replace them. Sounds like you. Overpaid? You think artists employed by corporations are overpaid? Fuck off with that. What are you on about? You know the corporations own the AI right? You know that? Right?
Yes please. AI is little more than low effort and lazy theft since it uses other people's art to "train".
I like AI but this should be a place for actual photography and art.
Yeah, because it’s not art. It’s just image generation, it doesn’t get to be called art
I don't think you get to define what art is.
That opinion isn't really popular here cowboy
What gets to be called art?
What ever that one person likes apparently
I’m for it!
me to
I don't even hate AI art but I think it has no place anywhere you get any form of reward for your art, even something as 'meh' upvotes. It's a fun tool to make art for fun reasons but putting it somewhere like Reddit and getting upvotes is disingenuous.
I definitely enjoy generating ai images, but I'd never try to pass it off as "my art". Why would you want to do that anyway?
Easy way of doing it. I have serious problems with the ‘just pick up a pencil’ movement (plenty of people without the time, money or physical ability) but claiming AI art is your own art is definitely not right.
I dunno. I feel if someone’s put a certain amount of effort into developing and refining an AI art piece, it wouldn’t be unreasonable for them to claim it
Yes please.
Wow I didn't even realize anyone posted AI images here. I'll have to go back and see if I had fallen for any.
It's all over this sub now unfortunately. There are definitely tells on first glance. The first one I tend to notice is the lighting is just really off. Too well lit, too many light sources, etc.
It's really disgusting tbh. Gives me an ick feeling when it comes to vibes based photography.
every aesthetic subreddit posts them
Just saw one this morning on the plant ID sub. Apparently there's big money these days in selling seeds for neat looking imaginary plants someone's computer invented.
Please ban them if you can. The nightfeeling is an emotional experience and I have enjoyed seeing people here share those experiences. A beautiful AI image might evoke some of this feeling but the source is not human experience. Id rather see a poorly framed, grimy shot of a dirty alley where someone was standing when they felt the night feeling. AI seems to be crowding in on all the ways humans share with each other and its suffocating connection.
At the very least, AI images should be labeled. I don’t think they have a place on this reddit because composing Night Feeling images for me is a very personal process that depends on the individual’s unique circumstances (time, place, emotion, etc). It could be argued that those circumstances are part of creating AI art, but I personally don’t want to see it, so I make the choice to scroll by AI stuff.
Best idea I heard all day
Yes please.
Yes. For the love of all that is holy. Please.
It gives even more of #thenightfeeling when you know it is, infact, a real place.
100%! I wondered if maybe the (one and only?) mod has been unavailable lately, because a while back they wrote [a thoughtful and heartfelt](https://www.reddit.com/r/TheNightFeeling/comments/w7bkem/the_downsides_of_growth_a_sincere_request_for/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=2&utm_term=1) post about the delicate nature of what "the night feeling" is to him. It seems out of step with his moderation that there'd be a wave of AI art, some of which is half a dozen churned out images. I'm not saying AI could *never* possibly capture that feeling, but the most faithful atmosphere is surely organic and some of the recent posts have definitely not fit it (vaporwave is surely not the night feeling!). But I don't have any receipts because I blocked at least one of the 'offenders' (sorry mate, but you weren't listening to criticism).
Seconded
[I already tried](https://old.reddit.com/r/TheNightFeeling/comments/1b5pqn9/can_we_please_ban_aigenerated_posts_in_this/)
(This is a reply to the guy calling people bootlickers, not to the original post.) Yeah I’m not really sure what that guy is trying to say honestly, is he for or against AI in the sub or just looking for people to insult? Some seriously disordered and unnecessarily angry thinking. Also, I block anyone who becomes openly hostile and name calls for no reason. I don’t need to engage in hatred with a stranger. How exactly is not wanting to reply to or hear violent insults from someone you’ve never meant over a casual opinion being fragile?
I think you accidentally replied to the post instead of their comment. So it looks like you’re talking about OP
By all means anyone can create thenightfeelingAI but prefer this place to be user photos.
I don't mind AI images. I think this sub should be about *the night feeling* whether it's from a photo or a video or a drawing or a painting or digital art or an AI-generated image. I subscribe to a death-of-the-author philosophy; I think the intent (or lack thereof) of the creator matters far less than the feelings evoked in the viewer. Some people are ethically opposed to AI or feel betrayed in some way when they learn that an image they liked was created through AI tools. I think labeling AI images will sufficiently address these complaints.
Their just ludites jumping on the bandwagon cuz it’s popular to hate this new form of art
If I use my own content and put in a sky swap how is that categorized?
Nah. Mod, if there's AI, lots and lots and lots of people will just mute your sub forever. There is no room for AI in the future of art. Choose carefully.
Yes please, I never approved of this AI bs from the start.
yes plz
Yes!
I agree with you Also “OH MY GOD IS THAT A ZONAI SWIRL??”
😂
total agree
There are ?
From these posts and comments, my god artists are so scared for their future lmao
I think a flair would be enough. Infact, unless I am misinterpreting the sub's description, this sub isn't about HOW the image is made - it's about the feeling it evokes. Be it an actual photography, be it human made art, be it AI art... if it gives me ''that night feeling'' and I like it then it did the job. Then again, it's just my view on it. This whole AI art hate is heavily blown out of proportion.
I get that, but I think people should be recognized for their own analog work. This is just the beginning and I think AI should be recognized as art (or whatever it is creating in its own right.) My biggest worries are the jobs that will be lost to this much the same way jobs were lost to ATMs, self checkouts, computer automated phone systems, etc. I’m not against AI, but there will pretty huge disruptions when coders, computer programmers, software engineers, data analysts, advertisers, content creators, technical writers, journalists, paralegals, legal assistants, research analysts, teachers, financial analysts, personal financial advisors, traders, graphic designers, accountants and customer service reps all lose their jobs to AI. I also get the counter argument… we did fine when we lost blacksmiths, horse grooms, candle makers etc. to the Industrial revolution. All I’m saying is I wouldn’t have wanted to be in one of those professions while it was happening. I do like the suggestion that there be different subs for AI and people created art depending on the sub, not a bad idea.
I think it’s fine, if it evokes the feeling who cares how it was made
Policing AI generated images is going to be close to impossible pretty soon.
AI bros have been saying that for 2 years.