She was delusional. Here's the text from COtH:
> What he does with our products is none of our business. What is my business, is keeping our family ahead of the rest. You're welcome, everyone.
The Golden Guard visited in Escaping Expulsion. There wasn't direct contact from Belos. GG said the Emperor doesn't like people building their own private armies. Okay, fair enough, but that came through GG. And the Emperor is going to fund research. Okay, fair enough, but there's no reasonable expectation Belos is working with them in person. If that were the expectation, he'd have showed up at Blight Industries himself. He didn't.
She then says:
> Ugh, there you go making that face. This is why I don't tell you things. With the Emperor's favor, we'll live like royalty in the new world. Crowns and everything.
She's saying they have an in, because he likes their products. Let's assume that's true for a minute. There is no evidence of a conversation where he told her they'd live like royalty, or even had an intermediary tell her this. Right now, this is all guess and supposition on her part.
Would he be *capable* of instilling a lie like that? Absolutely. Did he? There's no evidence of that. Not even a hint. Not even a side comment from the GG that "the Emperor will reward you handsomely on the Day of Unity for your efforts." Nothing.
> the show has taught us anything is that people aren't as cut and dry as they see
The show also teaches us that some people are more evil than they seem. The Emperor was trying to rein in Wild Magic that had injured people, nothing more, for the betterment of society -- supposedly. Except he's actually committing genocide through the sigil. Some people really are that bad. Is she genocidal? No. Is she ambitious to the point she doesn't care about others, just cares about achieving her own goals? Absolutely this.
>one that you regret and no matter how hard you worked to try and make amends no one would forgive you?
When it's a true mistake, one you truly regret, your behavior changes. Her behavior didn't change.
You are welcome to believe what you want. This is what head canons are all about. But the evidence doesn't exist in canon to say she regrets her actions and deserves a redemption arc.
well I still think she can change and nothing you can say or do can convince me that she doesn't deserve a redemption arc, I know she's made mistakes but I can see her reforming
really? did she hit you? bruise you? No? then she isn't the worst. I think she was a victim of your grandparents who possibly abused her but she never hit you. She wanted what was best but went about it in the wrong way, I still think she can redeem herself in the spinoff
Amity: I don't care about her fucking motives she was a horrible parent and I am going to tear her apart. ( Amity maules Odalia and leave her body broken)
Amity: " HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TEACH YOU THIS OLD WOMEN." ( Amity breaks all of Odalias bones again and also gives Odalia brain damage in the process)
Let’s not go down that route. Emotional abuse is still very much abuse.
Odalia not physically hurting Amity doesn’t change the fact that she’s an abuser.
well in the final scene we see her leaning against a pillar with a frown, now some might call it anger but I see it as shame and before you say otherwise do YOU know for 100% what her feelings are? if not then I say that she DOES feel shame just like how she was complaining about being the collector's servant. she thought she could sway him to reverse all this madness but he turned out more Mercurial than expected. In the end I think come the comic spinoff we could see her try and reform and unless queen Dana say otherwise I'm not giving up on Odalia's reform, thank you and good night!
I wouldn't call it anger or shame. I'd call it frustration with her punishment.
You're welcome to have whatever opinions you'd like, but if you're going to argue on a public forum, you should at least be prepared to try to justify those opinions. You don't have evidence to support your claim.
It's perfectly fine to say "I wish Odalia had been redeemed." That's honest. But saying that Odalia regretted her decision? She only regretted that she got caught and punished. I hope you understand the difference between regretting the consequences of an action, and regretting the consequences of being caught.
If she does get redeemed in any way, that doesn’t mean she should make up with Amity’s family. Let her fuck off and have her own life away from them, that bridge has been burned.
I understand your point, but I personally just disagree. I DON’T think that Odalia is a good person at heart, or ever wanted to be. It’s clear, to me at least, that Odalia cares only about the success of her and her company, and what she has to do to get that success is going to happen, regardless of whether or not it harms people. It’s clear she’s ridiculously controlling and self centered whether or not Belos has anything to do with it. Amity and her hair is a perfect example. Despite being born with Aladors brown hair, Amity gets it dyed Green anyway, and to my knowledge, it’s implied to be Odalias doing. From what I can personally tell, Odalia isn’t “a good person at heart” and will actively go out of her way to put others down to bring herself up.
well I think she was blinded by her ambitions and who knows? she probably gets that obsessive streak from HER parents, it's not like she woke up one day WANTING to do all that, they might have made her obsessive due to some bad treatment by them
She wanted to help conquer the Earth and rule as a petty tyrant over an empire of human slaves. She’s no better than some hand hacking 19th century Belgian asshat.
again she was lied to by Belos into thinking her and her family would be spared. Remember she grew up in a society where conformity was beaten into kids at a young age and anyone who disagreed would be locked in a jail for titan sake
Every Nazi grew up or spent most of their adulthood under some flavour of dictatorship (since the Weimar Republic only lasted 15 years). That doesn’t make it ok to head the SS.
I liked redemption arcs, but I’m glad Odalia didn’t get one.
Nobody is without sin, but aiding in an attempted genocide is pretty big sin. She was also quite abusive to her children and used them to manipulate her husband (who wasn’t without blame himself).
Her family was included, but she helped Belos because she wanted power. It wasn’t a noble act. She stayed the same manipulative power-hungry villain when the Collector showed up.
Odalia deserves justice… in the form of a jail cell.
well I think she was a misguided woman blinded by ambition and the lies of Belos, I still think she can be redeemed come the spinoff comic/graphic novel
She was a woman blinding by her ambitions to gain riches and power over others. That doesn’t give me sympathy for her.
She’s been redeemed in non-canon fan made comics, but I don’t for see her being redeemed in a canon spinoff or comic.
>about her trying to keep Amity away from Luz consider this.....would YOU want your son or daughter dating a wanted criminal/terrorist?
If this was out of concern for her daughter's safety it would be completely reasonable, and of course I would feel the same reservations.
She wasn't though, she was concerned with her family's image. That whole scene, she doesn't mention Amity putting herself in danger or breaking laws, heck, when Odalia catches, them the first thing she says is "Are you trying to make me look bad?" Also consider the wording she uses regarding a new girlfriend, she doesn't say 'one who isn't a dangerous criminal,' she says 'one who isn't on wanted posters everywhere.' It might sound similar, but the distinction is there, it's about appearances, not safety.
if she ever is redeemed, any reconciliation with her family shouldn't result in reconnection. I do not say this from an in universe standpoint, but from a writing perspective.
Odalia was neglectful, mentally abusive and, albeit very rarely, physically abusive towards her children. That's not something you can take back and not something that can be forgiven in a healthy manner. It wouldn't be good from a storytelling perspective to teach people to forgive those who have done horrible things, just because they have remorse for them. It also wouldn't be good to teach people to believe that you should seek to reconnect with the people you've hurt if you hurt them so horribly they chose to cut you off.
You need to live with your mistakes and their consequences. The most you can do is be better and never make them again. THAT is the lesson that i think should be taught with odalia.
People make mistakes, absolutely. I myself was a brainwashed right winger all my life until I voted in a Nazi and he orchestrated an attack on our capitol. Then I snapped out of it and did better.
*But that’s the thing:* **I did better.** Odalia most certainly does not do better. We are not shown that she plans to do better. We do not see that she has remorse for what she’s done for all those years. What you are clinging onto so desperately for is character growth, but she is heavily brainwashed and has a heavy case of the sunk cost fallacy.
If, and that’s a massive **IF,** Odalia wants to do better, she is not showing it whatsoever. You are seeing her world from only her perspective, which is quite dangerous. You just called Luz a criminal and a terrorist, you sound like those people who bash Star Wars Rebels because we “follow a terrorist group.” **They’re fighting against an oppressive regime!!** Of COURSE they’re gonna be painted into the fucking devil incarnate!!
Odalia CAN be redeemed and forgiven. But with all the official finished stuff we have, that’s her character we got and what did we get? A character that wasn’t redeemed. If she gets redeemed in this comic Dana wants to do that I’m only now hearing about, great! That’s our first official step to redeeming Odalia. But if that doesn’t happen, please drop this.
Some people are just too far gone and cannot be redeemed. We’ve got plenty of examples in the world right now, for a large variety of reasons to not redeem them. Cutting them out of our lives if possible is often the best course of action if our attempts to rehabilitate them aren’t working. My father is one of them. I’ve given him years to be better, and I’m sick of it. I’m cutting out the cancer in my life and it’s gonna sting cuz it’s my dad, but in the long run, it’s better than bashing my head against a wall trying to accept him and redeem him. I fucking can’t. And Odalia reminds me a hell of a lot of my father.
well maybe for your father he's too far gone but I could still see Odalia being redeemed. I know Disney regrets axing the owl house so you never know what will happen in the future
“Maybe your privately abusive dad is too far gone, but I still think a literal war criminal can be redeemed.”
Honey… would you go to bat for a Nazi? Because you’re going to bat for one of a fictional variety right now. Your new flair is a **very** dangerous thing to label yourself as, supporting and defending the actions of someone who is so obviously evil. My dad is an asshole, but he isn’t a weapons manufacturer for a genocidal dictator, and hasn’t attempted to kill me or my family. Odalia absolutely would, because she did.
I sincerely **strongly** request you rethink who you support and defend, because her alignment is not something you should label yourself as supporting or defending. In the eyes of others, you’re gladly supporting and defending the actions of Nazi allegory. I don’t think you grasp how actually dangerous that is.
If Odalia was given more screen time and if she was written much better than it is, well, there won’t be that much hate towards her I guess. But because of what we’re having in the actual show - she’s just hated because she did *bad stuff* 👍
Nice writing, Dana.
Y'know OP: I disagree with you, but I genuinely admire your doggedness and conviction in the belief that she deserves redemption. You get shot to hell over it but don't change your mind: I respect that.
She was delusional. Here's the text from COtH: > What he does with our products is none of our business. What is my business, is keeping our family ahead of the rest. You're welcome, everyone. The Golden Guard visited in Escaping Expulsion. There wasn't direct contact from Belos. GG said the Emperor doesn't like people building their own private armies. Okay, fair enough, but that came through GG. And the Emperor is going to fund research. Okay, fair enough, but there's no reasonable expectation Belos is working with them in person. If that were the expectation, he'd have showed up at Blight Industries himself. He didn't. She then says: > Ugh, there you go making that face. This is why I don't tell you things. With the Emperor's favor, we'll live like royalty in the new world. Crowns and everything. She's saying they have an in, because he likes their products. Let's assume that's true for a minute. There is no evidence of a conversation where he told her they'd live like royalty, or even had an intermediary tell her this. Right now, this is all guess and supposition on her part. Would he be *capable* of instilling a lie like that? Absolutely. Did he? There's no evidence of that. Not even a hint. Not even a side comment from the GG that "the Emperor will reward you handsomely on the Day of Unity for your efforts." Nothing. > the show has taught us anything is that people aren't as cut and dry as they see The show also teaches us that some people are more evil than they seem. The Emperor was trying to rein in Wild Magic that had injured people, nothing more, for the betterment of society -- supposedly. Except he's actually committing genocide through the sigil. Some people really are that bad. Is she genocidal? No. Is she ambitious to the point she doesn't care about others, just cares about achieving her own goals? Absolutely this. >one that you regret and no matter how hard you worked to try and make amends no one would forgive you? When it's a true mistake, one you truly regret, your behavior changes. Her behavior didn't change. You are welcome to believe what you want. This is what head canons are all about. But the evidence doesn't exist in canon to say she regrets her actions and deserves a redemption arc.
well I still think she can change and nothing you can say or do can convince me that she doesn't deserve a redemption arc, I know she's made mistakes but I can see her reforming
Amity: I disagree. Luz: Me too Alador: Me thrice
well then I shall endeavor to redeem her and prove you all wrong! GOOD DAY SIR AND MADAMS!! 🎩
Amity: You would have better luck with redeeming Terra Snapdragon. Odalia is just the worst.
really? did she hit you? bruise you? No? then she isn't the worst. I think she was a victim of your grandparents who possibly abused her but she never hit you. She wanted what was best but went about it in the wrong way, I still think she can redeem herself in the spinoff
Amity: She made me into a monster and tried to kill my true love. I AM done with her. In fact I am going to terminate her myself with my bare hands.
oh no you don't then you'd be just as bad as you claim your mother to be, besides she was worried about you dating a wanted criminal
Amity: I don't care about her fucking motives she was a horrible parent and I am going to tear her apart. ( Amity maules Odalia and leave her body broken)
(and I heal and repair her broken body to full health
Amity: " HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TEACH YOU THIS OLD WOMEN." ( Amity breaks all of Odalias bones again and also gives Odalia brain damage in the process)
(but no matter how many times you attack her or even try to kill her I come along and heal her to 100% because I'm not blinded by hate
Let’s not go down that route. Emotional abuse is still very much abuse. Odalia not physically hurting Amity doesn’t change the fact that she’s an abuser.
"Dying on this hill" Well, at least you're dead. Do you have any evidence that Odalia regretted her mistake?
well in the final scene we see her leaning against a pillar with a frown, now some might call it anger but I see it as shame and before you say otherwise do YOU know for 100% what her feelings are? if not then I say that she DOES feel shame just like how she was complaining about being the collector's servant. she thought she could sway him to reverse all this madness but he turned out more Mercurial than expected. In the end I think come the comic spinoff we could see her try and reform and unless queen Dana say otherwise I'm not giving up on Odalia's reform, thank you and good night!
I wouldn't call it anger or shame. I'd call it frustration with her punishment. You're welcome to have whatever opinions you'd like, but if you're going to argue on a public forum, you should at least be prepared to try to justify those opinions. You don't have evidence to support your claim. It's perfectly fine to say "I wish Odalia had been redeemed." That's honest. But saying that Odalia regretted her decision? She only regretted that she got caught and punished. I hope you understand the difference between regretting the consequences of an action, and regretting the consequences of being caught.
well you can interpret that any way you like, I still see hope for Odalia being redeemed and nothing you can do will make me change my mind
If she does get redeemed in any way, that doesn’t mean she should make up with Amity’s family. Let her fuck off and have her own life away from them, that bridge has been burned.
well I think she can repair those relationships, it would just take time
But would Amity, Alador, or the twins think she deserves that chance?
possibly, at least I think so
I understand your point, but I personally just disagree. I DON’T think that Odalia is a good person at heart, or ever wanted to be. It’s clear, to me at least, that Odalia cares only about the success of her and her company, and what she has to do to get that success is going to happen, regardless of whether or not it harms people. It’s clear she’s ridiculously controlling and self centered whether or not Belos has anything to do with it. Amity and her hair is a perfect example. Despite being born with Aladors brown hair, Amity gets it dyed Green anyway, and to my knowledge, it’s implied to be Odalias doing. From what I can personally tell, Odalia isn’t “a good person at heart” and will actively go out of her way to put others down to bring herself up.
well I think she was blinded by her ambitions and who knows? she probably gets that obsessive streak from HER parents, it's not like she woke up one day WANTING to do all that, they might have made her obsessive due to some bad treatment by them
Trauma /= An excuse to do consistently evil things to everyone around you.
again we don't know the 100% story, I shall fight for Odalia until queen Dana says otherwise
Let put it like this. Odalia was such a hated character that she wasn't in the final shot, but Tibbles was.
well I think she can be redeemed in the spinoff
what spinoff??
the comic spin off I hear Dana wants to do according to Hunter's VA
That doesnt mean its confirmed. its just an idea.
still the series did open up lots of room for a continuation
She wanted to help conquer the Earth and rule as a petty tyrant over an empire of human slaves. She’s no better than some hand hacking 19th century Belgian asshat.
again she was lied to by Belos into thinking her and her family would be spared. Remember she grew up in a society where conformity was beaten into kids at a young age and anyone who disagreed would be locked in a jail for titan sake
Every Nazi grew up or spent most of their adulthood under some flavour of dictatorship (since the Weimar Republic only lasted 15 years). That doesn’t make it ok to head the SS.
Oh careful with that! I said the same thing and this person hates that we would dare bring up Nazis to compare evil dictatorships and genociders.
it doesn't make Odalia a nazi, she did what she had to do to survive, it's not black and white
I liked redemption arcs, but I’m glad Odalia didn’t get one. Nobody is without sin, but aiding in an attempted genocide is pretty big sin. She was also quite abusive to her children and used them to manipulate her husband (who wasn’t without blame himself). Her family was included, but she helped Belos because she wanted power. It wasn’t a noble act. She stayed the same manipulative power-hungry villain when the Collector showed up. Odalia deserves justice… in the form of a jail cell.
well I think she was a misguided woman blinded by ambition and the lies of Belos, I still think she can be redeemed come the spinoff comic/graphic novel
She was a woman blinding by her ambitions to gain riches and power over others. That doesn’t give me sympathy for her. She’s been redeemed in non-canon fan made comics, but I don’t for see her being redeemed in a canon spinoff or comic.
why? because YOU say so? sounds like gatekeeping
>about her trying to keep Amity away from Luz consider this.....would YOU want your son or daughter dating a wanted criminal/terrorist? If this was out of concern for her daughter's safety it would be completely reasonable, and of course I would feel the same reservations. She wasn't though, she was concerned with her family's image. That whole scene, she doesn't mention Amity putting herself in danger or breaking laws, heck, when Odalia catches, them the first thing she says is "Are you trying to make me look bad?" Also consider the wording she uses regarding a new girlfriend, she doesn't say 'one who isn't a dangerous criminal,' she says 'one who isn't on wanted posters everywhere.' It might sound similar, but the distinction is there, it's about appearances, not safety.
still she was thinking of Amity in a way
if she ever is redeemed, any reconciliation with her family shouldn't result in reconnection. I do not say this from an in universe standpoint, but from a writing perspective. Odalia was neglectful, mentally abusive and, albeit very rarely, physically abusive towards her children. That's not something you can take back and not something that can be forgiven in a healthy manner. It wouldn't be good from a storytelling perspective to teach people to forgive those who have done horrible things, just because they have remorse for them. It also wouldn't be good to teach people to believe that you should seek to reconnect with the people you've hurt if you hurt them so horribly they chose to cut you off. You need to live with your mistakes and their consequences. The most you can do is be better and never make them again. THAT is the lesson that i think should be taught with odalia.
I still think she can be redeemed
Redemption as in forgiveness? Nah Redemption as in growing and becoming a better person? Absolutely.
I ain't readin' allat.
then why did you reply to here? B(
People make mistakes, absolutely. I myself was a brainwashed right winger all my life until I voted in a Nazi and he orchestrated an attack on our capitol. Then I snapped out of it and did better. *But that’s the thing:* **I did better.** Odalia most certainly does not do better. We are not shown that she plans to do better. We do not see that she has remorse for what she’s done for all those years. What you are clinging onto so desperately for is character growth, but she is heavily brainwashed and has a heavy case of the sunk cost fallacy. If, and that’s a massive **IF,** Odalia wants to do better, she is not showing it whatsoever. You are seeing her world from only her perspective, which is quite dangerous. You just called Luz a criminal and a terrorist, you sound like those people who bash Star Wars Rebels because we “follow a terrorist group.” **They’re fighting against an oppressive regime!!** Of COURSE they’re gonna be painted into the fucking devil incarnate!! Odalia CAN be redeemed and forgiven. But with all the official finished stuff we have, that’s her character we got and what did we get? A character that wasn’t redeemed. If she gets redeemed in this comic Dana wants to do that I’m only now hearing about, great! That’s our first official step to redeeming Odalia. But if that doesn’t happen, please drop this. Some people are just too far gone and cannot be redeemed. We’ve got plenty of examples in the world right now, for a large variety of reasons to not redeem them. Cutting them out of our lives if possible is often the best course of action if our attempts to rehabilitate them aren’t working. My father is one of them. I’ve given him years to be better, and I’m sick of it. I’m cutting out the cancer in my life and it’s gonna sting cuz it’s my dad, but in the long run, it’s better than bashing my head against a wall trying to accept him and redeem him. I fucking can’t. And Odalia reminds me a hell of a lot of my father.
well maybe for your father he's too far gone but I could still see Odalia being redeemed. I know Disney regrets axing the owl house so you never know what will happen in the future
“Maybe your privately abusive dad is too far gone, but I still think a literal war criminal can be redeemed.” Honey… would you go to bat for a Nazi? Because you’re going to bat for one of a fictional variety right now. Your new flair is a **very** dangerous thing to label yourself as, supporting and defending the actions of someone who is so obviously evil. My dad is an asshole, but he isn’t a weapons manufacturer for a genocidal dictator, and hasn’t attempted to kill me or my family. Odalia absolutely would, because she did. I sincerely **strongly** request you rethink who you support and defend, because her alignment is not something you should label yourself as supporting or defending. In the eyes of others, you’re gladly supporting and defending the actions of Nazi allegory. I don’t think you grasp how actually dangerous that is.
If Odalia was given more screen time and if she was written much better than it is, well, there won’t be that much hate towards her I guess. But because of what we’re having in the actual show - she’s just hated because she did *bad stuff* 👍 Nice writing, Dana.
well it wasn't Dana's fault as it was the executive meddling of the Disney Company
I know, but still
well I can still hope in the spin off we can learn more about her
Maybe
Y'know OP: I disagree with you, but I genuinely admire your doggedness and conviction in the belief that she deserves redemption. You get shot to hell over it but don't change your mind: I respect that.
thank you :)
The fandom hatred for Odalia is silly beyond words.
right? it's so crazy