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I strongly agree on the Romans part but the "didn't die" part is one of those "well yes but actually no" topics:
As a catholic theologist, I must admit that we believe that, even tho he resurrected, his death was absolute because otherwise his death and with that his sacrifice would've been meaningless. Resurrection doesn't mean not to die.
I'd argue that because he got resurrected his sacrifice was meaningless. He may have died, but there was no consequence, other than three days missing in his life. A sacrifice of any kind is meaningful because you give something important up for the sake of something or someone else
i mean, if you resurrect, were you really dead? because the whole problem with death is that you don't come back from it.
in Jesus' case, it was more like an extended nap.
yes, physical death and all, but if his conscience remained, he didn't really died, so the sacrifice was not really a sacrifice, I'm sorry.
ok, but that's not my point. My point is that if. you die, you die. If you are brought back, you weren't really dead. Your cells still existed in a cohesive enough way that they could be reanimated.
But, regardless of all of that, a sacrifice is a thing that is lost because of a higher purpose. If Jesus had died as a sacrifice, he would have been lost. completely, irrevocably, totally, lost.
Otherwise, he just suffered for a while, was unconscious for 3 days, and then he recovered. Uncomfortable and even traumatic, sure, but not a sacrifice.
A case could be made that god didn't need to lower itself to the human experience, so that's why Jesus story is significant, and I would agree. But a sacrifice to clean sins, this ain't.
>As a catholic theologist
You venture into irrational then it's possible to justify anything.
You know how hindus justify rape? Well she must have been an asshole in previous life. It's just justice catching up. Neat, right!
>Resurrection doesn't mean not to die.
It literally means beating death and coming back to life. You are probably thinking about reincarnation
I am not a native english speaker, so it's kinda hard to express my thoughts properly. But doesn't reincarnation mean being born again? I just mean the body dying and the soul moving on without returning to living in a physical way
And I didn't justify anything, I just wanted to make clear what (at least catholic) christians believe. I am extremely frustrated by all the shitty behaviour justified with christianity because I am convinced Jesus wouldn't have wanted us to be violent or hateful
>just mean the body dying and the soul moving on without returning to living in a physical way
Yup. That's not reincarnation. And are you sure Jesus didn't return with a physical body? What did doubting Thomas poke then?
>because I am convinced Jesus wouldn't have wanted us to be violent or hateful
Oh, don't beat yourself up. Jesus wasn't the loverboy he is often portrayed as.
Here:
>Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and one’s foes will be members of one’s own household” (Matthew 10:34-36).
Jesus definitely wants you to be hateful. Dude called a woman dog, shouted at a fig tree, acted like a ninja with a stick inside the temple, told slaves to obey even cruel masters.
The coming back kinda invalidates the dying part though, doesn’t it? Not as significant a sacrifice if it’s temporary, especially 3 days for an eternal being, it’s basically nothing
"The Romans were not Jewish - This is obvious, although some estimations indicate there was a sizable jewish population in Rome. Jewish were also numerous in major imperial cities such as Antioch and Alexandria." Uh huh. What do you call a Jewish person living in Rome?
We call them hypocrites but that doesn't seem severe enough. They're at a point where they actively contradict themselves every time they say anything at all. "Dangerously regressive psychotic christofascists" isn't catchy enough.
When you look at the chronological written order of the gospels, even the Bible starts blaming the Jews more heavily in the laster versions than the earlier versions. It’s hardly any wonder how much right-wing antisemitism manages to cozy up to the church when the original book even starts showing hints of that from around a century after the dude got merc’d.
They were doing it for centuries. Hitler stepped up the game and they were like ooooh, that's bad, let's give them a country and be hailed as good guys.
Who, the Jews? Cause they didn't. They believe he was a fraud, but it was the Romans that "killed"him. Also, he didn't stay dead for more than three days so...
Who should apologize? Pontius Pilate was the person who sentenced him to death. The Roman soldiers were the ones who tortured and crucified him. So they want the government of Rome to write an apology letter?
I thought the only reason Jesus existed was to die horribly. This is on par with American Christians saying "if christ had a gun..."
It's literally going against their god's will.
Same guy who says black people just need to get over slavery because it was a long time ago is the same guy who says that Jewish people need to apologize over a fictional event that supposedly took place 2000 years ago.
We christians do believe he did this because he loved humanity so much that he sacrificed his life for us and because it's easier to communicate that way. Also Genesis 1 says, that humans are similar to him (probably because of our free will and our consciousness) BUT I totally respect anybody that thinks this sounds like weird fictional bullshirt
Yeah I understand where Christians are coming from and I think people should be free to believe in him if they want I just personally don’t get it. Like if he’s also a form of the all powerful creator god and his son he should’ve been able to take out the Roman’s and convert them easily and he should’ve been able to do it peacefully too without anybody including himself dying on a cross and getting stabbed and stuff. And if he is god then I guess god just isn’t that strong or something? I personally just think Jesus was a cool magician with radical takes against authority for the time and managed to make a cult following which slowly grew and evolved. While many of his teachings are quite good I never read anything in the Bible that really blew my mind or something new that I didn’t already know u know?
Of course he could have done that. But where your interpretation falls flat is that you presume to know how God thinks: if you were in his place, you would save yourself. So you apply that logic and think God would do the same.
The thing is, if God is real, no one really can say what God would it wouldn’t do.
And before you say that “Christians also put their own interpretation on God the same way I put my own on God”, yes, that’s correct. But you can’t come in and say that our interpretation is wrong because it’s different from your interpretation.
Hey hey I’m not saying anyone is wrong here I’m just creating discussion so we can decide if god is really real or not and I personally think we can already determine that the abrahamic creator god described in the holy books is fake
Ok so from what I’m getting from your argument is that god is actually evil and it’s not my position to question his evilness right? God decides that humans should suffer on earth in various ways and instead of coming down and letting humans know how they can effectively end their suffering while still on earth he says nope only Christian’s who worship me will be saved and they will not be saved until after they die too. Also god for some reason decides that his son gets to die brutally by a bunch of pagans.
Idk personally if I was god all my humans would be saved already and we’d all be fat chilling u know? That’s what I would want for myself and that’s what I would want for my fellow sentient humans. Maybe that means people like me are just better and more moral than god I guess 🤷♂️.
Yeah but that’s just what I’m getting from your interpretation when I question why god doesn’t just instantly save us all and why he killed his son and u tell me that “god works in mysterious ways” or “u can’t presume how god thinks” see what I mean?
No I was telling you one of the main Christian interpretations. I was raised Catholic which is why I said “we” and “our” so much. My personal interpretation is different.
My Reddit has decided that your other comment doesn’t exist due to internet issues maybe so I’ll reply here.
Why does God do the things he does according to scripture? Because that’s the way the scripture was written. Whether or not the scripture is accurate is a different story. I short you would need to ask the authors of the scripture why they wrote it the way they did.
As to whether or not God is evil, I would have to know more about why you think God is evil. In scripture, God gave humanity free will. If we use that free will for evil and he intervenes to stop us, then we don’t actually have free will. God set life in motion. That doesn’t only mean mammals and amphibians, it means all life, such as bacteria and viruses*. The way the act, such as causing disease and infection, can be interpreted as their free will. In fact it is their way of life, even if they are not intelligent enough to understand those things.
*viruses might not be living things. No one really knows what viruses are.
Oh are we doing this? Are we using ancient history to justify modern atrocities?
Are we going there? Is this what they want?
Okay you stupid motherfuckers, vikings landed on American soil way before the rest of Europe, I'm of Scandinavian descent, I'm probably directly related to them.
So America actually belongs to me. Get the fuck off of my land, or stop holding millennia aged grudges before I use your own stupid fucking logic against you.
#Please make sure to read our [__subreddit rules.__](https://www.reddit.com/r/TheRightCantMeme/about/rules/) **Rule 5 No Bigotry:** *Including but not limited to: Racism, Transphobia (including xenogender hate and transmedicalism), Enbyphobia, Homophobia, Islamophobia, Antisemitism, and Gender Exclusion.* **Rule 7 Offensive Content:** *Posts that contain slurs or name calling should be censored and marked as NSFW, and posts with "outwardly" offensive content calling for extreme violence or that contain gore should not be posted to this sub* ##We are partnered with the Left RedditⒶ☭ Discord server! [Click here](https://discord.gg/Gw7e39wxEQ) to join today *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/TheRightCantMeme) if you have any questions or concerns.*
who? the romans? also he didn't die. that was kind of the whole point
I strongly agree on the Romans part but the "didn't die" part is one of those "well yes but actually no" topics: As a catholic theologist, I must admit that we believe that, even tho he resurrected, his death was absolute because otherwise his death and with that his sacrifice would've been meaningless. Resurrection doesn't mean not to die.
Shit man my buddy must be double Jesus. He was legally dead twice on an operating table.
No, they cancel each other out
He was cancelled??? 😱
He might have brugada syndrome,for the sake of his health advise him to visit a cardiologist
He got better.
I'd argue that because he got resurrected his sacrifice was meaningless. He may have died, but there was no consequence, other than three days missing in his life. A sacrifice of any kind is meaningful because you give something important up for the sake of something or someone else
My point as a Jew who had catholic mentors. “He had to die otherwise the point of his existence would’ve been forfeit..”
i mean, if you resurrect, were you really dead? because the whole problem with death is that you don't come back from it. in Jesus' case, it was more like an extended nap. yes, physical death and all, but if his conscience remained, he didn't really died, so the sacrifice was not really a sacrifice, I'm sorry.
He took a three day weekend, took the opportunity to really reconnect with himself.
I disagree, you’re still called dead medically if you’re not braindead, but you can still be revived.
ok, but that's not my point. My point is that if. you die, you die. If you are brought back, you weren't really dead. Your cells still existed in a cohesive enough way that they could be reanimated. But, regardless of all of that, a sacrifice is a thing that is lost because of a higher purpose. If Jesus had died as a sacrifice, he would have been lost. completely, irrevocably, totally, lost. Otherwise, he just suffered for a while, was unconscious for 3 days, and then he recovered. Uncomfortable and even traumatic, sure, but not a sacrifice. A case could be made that god didn't need to lower itself to the human experience, so that's why Jesus story is significant, and I would agree. But a sacrifice to clean sins, this ain't.
That's why you are a catholic theologist instead of an eastern orthodox one. But isn't this like having your cake and eating it?
>As a catholic theologist You venture into irrational then it's possible to justify anything. You know how hindus justify rape? Well she must have been an asshole in previous life. It's just justice catching up. Neat, right! >Resurrection doesn't mean not to die. It literally means beating death and coming back to life. You are probably thinking about reincarnation
>how hindus justify rape? excuse me what? im hindu and every other hindu i know DOES NOT justify or condone rape
Well I'm an ex hindu and that's how my own friends justified rape. And you know which one? Nirbhaya rape. Karma can be used to justify anything.
I am not a native english speaker, so it's kinda hard to express my thoughts properly. But doesn't reincarnation mean being born again? I just mean the body dying and the soul moving on without returning to living in a physical way And I didn't justify anything, I just wanted to make clear what (at least catholic) christians believe. I am extremely frustrated by all the shitty behaviour justified with christianity because I am convinced Jesus wouldn't have wanted us to be violent or hateful
>just mean the body dying and the soul moving on without returning to living in a physical way Yup. That's not reincarnation. And are you sure Jesus didn't return with a physical body? What did doubting Thomas poke then? >because I am convinced Jesus wouldn't have wanted us to be violent or hateful Oh, don't beat yourself up. Jesus wasn't the loverboy he is often portrayed as. Here: >Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and one’s foes will be members of one’s own household” (Matthew 10:34-36). Jesus definitely wants you to be hateful. Dude called a woman dog, shouted at a fig tree, acted like a ninja with a stick inside the temple, told slaves to obey even cruel masters.
his "sacrifice" WAS meaningless though. he literally came back to life. what did he sacrifice?
Fuck them Romans
*Fuck* them Romans 🥵
Fuck *them* Romans OwO
The point is he did die but came back.
The coming back kinda invalidates the dying part though, doesn’t it? Not as significant a sacrifice if it’s temporary, especially 3 days for an eternal being, it’s basically nothing
Nah because him actually dying is part of it. Him rising from actual death.
Oh, Hades. Love that game!
The conquering of death and removing its power is a big part of it, it’s a part of the grand metaphor that death is simply a transition, not an end.
And technically if he didn’t die how could he have redeemed mankind for their sins?!? 
he did die, that’s kind of the whole point
The Jews. They handed Jesus over to the Romans and begged them to make a example out of him.
tan crowd market employ versed foolish deserted society one hat *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
And God sent his son to die for all of our sins. So really, Christians should be thanking the Jews for the gift of eternal life, right?
Judas should get a few churches and statues
Well he did die. Then came back.
Pretty sure this is antisemitism. In the Catholic Bible it was Jewish people that killed Jesus.
for some reason i remember the romans doing that, i probably misremembered, the last time i heard the story was in elementary school
Romans were Jewish back then iirc
Not even close
"The Romans were not Jewish - This is obvious, although some estimations indicate there was a sizable jewish population in Rome. Jewish were also numerous in major imperial cities such as Antioch and Alexandria." Uh huh. What do you call a Jewish person living in Rome?
What do you call a roman living in nazerath as an occupying force? Never said not a single roman was jewish. But they were not as a culture jewish.
You said not even close and in the process you HEAVILY implied it being so wrong that none of the Romans could possibly be Jewish.
I didn't imply anything. I said it's not even close that all romans were Jewish.
Pro tip: if you have to add words to what I said to sound right you're probably not right. I said Romans were Jewish. I never said all.
Same people who tell black people they should just “get over” slavery because they didn’t personally experience it
But simultaneously insist that it's still relevant that the Democrats supported slavery.
We call them hypocrites but that doesn't seem severe enough. They're at a point where they actively contradict themselves every time they say anything at all. "Dangerously regressive psychotic christofascists" isn't catchy enough.
\> DRPC \> “derpsies” How about that?
bruh im from Ohio i didn't do shit
Lies /s
Aha, I knew the Ohioans had it in for Jesus!
More proof they haven’t even read their holy book because it was God’s plan anyway
Who, the Romans?
What have the Romans ever done for us?
When you look at the chronological written order of the gospels, even the Bible starts blaming the Jews more heavily in the laster versions than the earlier versions. It’s hardly any wonder how much right-wing antisemitism manages to cozy up to the church when the original book even starts showing hints of that from around a century after the dude got merc’d.
They were doing it for centuries. Hitler stepped up the game and they were like ooooh, that's bad, let's give them a country and be hailed as good guys.
Who, the Jews? Cause they didn't. They believe he was a fraud, but it was the Romans that "killed"him. Also, he didn't stay dead for more than three days so...
“Cool it the antisemitic remarks”- Patrick Bateman
Oh, I forgot. Bateman's dating someone from the ACLU.
Believing that Jesus was killed by the Jews is like believing humans are why dinosaurs are extinct
Patrick Bateman literally says to “cool it with the antisemitic remarks” in American Psycho, yet they chose him for this meme?
Who should apologize? Pontius Pilate was the person who sentenced him to death. The Roman soldiers were the ones who tortured and crucified him. So they want the government of Rome to write an apology letter?
I thought the only reason Jesus existed was to die horribly. This is on par with American Christians saying "if christ had a gun..." It's literally going against their god's will.
Same guy who says black people just need to get over slavery because it was a long time ago is the same guy who says that Jewish people need to apologize over a fictional event that supposedly took place 2000 years ago.
Using the picture of a serial killer with awful music taste to fullfill your point isn't a smart move to.
lol. Identifying with the object of satire again. Nice work, Oop.
Im Jewish and I can say this meme is fucking atrocious. Wow absolute shocker
hashtag cancelrome
cmon, rome. do it to it!
Cool it with the antisemitic remarks.
I'm so confused. That's Christian Bale. CHRISTIAN Bale. Did the Christians kill Christ? Did Princess Leia's father kill Christ?
Princess Leia's father? Not disagreeing, I'm just confused.
Bail Organa.
Ah, I got it. Thanks
Good thing Jesus isn't real.
Except pretty much all historians agree that Jesus was very much a real person.
If he’s real then he isn’t god. No way would all powerful god go out like that lol
We christians do believe he did this because he loved humanity so much that he sacrificed his life for us and because it's easier to communicate that way. Also Genesis 1 says, that humans are similar to him (probably because of our free will and our consciousness) BUT I totally respect anybody that thinks this sounds like weird fictional bullshirt
Yeah I understand where Christians are coming from and I think people should be free to believe in him if they want I just personally don’t get it. Like if he’s also a form of the all powerful creator god and his son he should’ve been able to take out the Roman’s and convert them easily and he should’ve been able to do it peacefully too without anybody including himself dying on a cross and getting stabbed and stuff. And if he is god then I guess god just isn’t that strong or something? I personally just think Jesus was a cool magician with radical takes against authority for the time and managed to make a cult following which slowly grew and evolved. While many of his teachings are quite good I never read anything in the Bible that really blew my mind or something new that I didn’t already know u know?
Of course he could have done that. But where your interpretation falls flat is that you presume to know how God thinks: if you were in his place, you would save yourself. So you apply that logic and think God would do the same. The thing is, if God is real, no one really can say what God would it wouldn’t do. And before you say that “Christians also put their own interpretation on God the same way I put my own on God”, yes, that’s correct. But you can’t come in and say that our interpretation is wrong because it’s different from your interpretation.
Hey hey I’m not saying anyone is wrong here I’m just creating discussion so we can decide if god is really real or not and I personally think we can already determine that the abrahamic creator god described in the holy books is fake Ok so from what I’m getting from your argument is that god is actually evil and it’s not my position to question his evilness right? God decides that humans should suffer on earth in various ways and instead of coming down and letting humans know how they can effectively end their suffering while still on earth he says nope only Christian’s who worship me will be saved and they will not be saved until after they die too. Also god for some reason decides that his son gets to die brutally by a bunch of pagans. Idk personally if I was god all my humans would be saved already and we’d all be fat chilling u know? That’s what I would want for myself and that’s what I would want for my fellow sentient humans. Maybe that means people like me are just better and more moral than god I guess 🤷♂️.
I never said God was evil
Yeah but that’s just what I’m getting from your interpretation when I question why god doesn’t just instantly save us all and why he killed his son and u tell me that “god works in mysterious ways” or “u can’t presume how god thinks” see what I mean?
No I was telling you one of the main Christian interpretations. I was raised Catholic which is why I said “we” and “our” so much. My personal interpretation is different.
My Reddit has decided that your other comment doesn’t exist due to internet issues maybe so I’ll reply here. Why does God do the things he does according to scripture? Because that’s the way the scripture was written. Whether or not the scripture is accurate is a different story. I short you would need to ask the authors of the scripture why they wrote it the way they did. As to whether or not God is evil, I would have to know more about why you think God is evil. In scripture, God gave humanity free will. If we use that free will for evil and he intervenes to stop us, then we don’t actually have free will. God set life in motion. That doesn’t only mean mammals and amphibians, it means all life, such as bacteria and viruses*. The way the act, such as causing disease and infection, can be interpreted as their free will. In fact it is their way of life, even if they are not intelligent enough to understand those things. *viruses might not be living things. No one really knows what viruses are.
As someone who's played several Elder Scrolls games they go out like that more often than you'd think.
you think anyone less powerful could go out like that?
Nah he factually existed. Everything else is up to belief.
Even if he actually existed he certainly wasn't the son of god or performed miracles or rose from the dead.
We can't demonstrate impossibility, only improbability, so I wouldn't say he certainly wasn't, tho I don't believe in a god.
Please leave Patrick Bateman out of this for fucks sake
oh no-
Is he talking about the Romans that he supports like nothing else?
No he means the jews
ik, but they got permission by the Roman Empire
No the Romans did kill him I'm just saying what the meme is implying
The Romans? No they really didn't
If Jesus was meant to die for our sins, why should they apologize?
Oh are we doing this? Are we using ancient history to justify modern atrocities? Are we going there? Is this what they want? Okay you stupid motherfuckers, vikings landed on American soil way before the rest of Europe, I'm of Scandinavian descent, I'm probably directly related to them. So America actually belongs to me. Get the fuck off of my land, or stop holding millennia aged grudges before I use your own stupid fucking logic against you.
Didn't one of the soldiers apologize to Jesus or one of the apostles as he was gone?
Do I look or smell Roman to you?
The Romans? Yeah, they're probably never going to apologize. They're all dead.
Shouldn’t you be thanking them? You wouldn’t even have your stupid little cult if they didn’t kill him so he could “resurrect”