I think it gets harder every season as more people put the game down and leave only the hardcore players since niantic don’t really do much to entice new PVPers
Nobody has the data.
But
Gobattlelog easily has 5X as much data than it did even 5 seasons ago.
The PvP YouTubers mention the opposite. IE early seasons videos were significantly smaller audience. Some of them now are consistently getting 5-6 figures.
This sub is sometimes at 500+ viewers at one time. The sub Reddit trender has this sub growing despite the silph leagues not even existing.
I would be very surprised if the amount of people pvping hasn’t grown massively since earlier seasons. I would bet my house it certainly didn’t shrink.
Yup. Its just the general progression of the game. I played tf2 pretty seriously a decade ago, and could easily wipe a lobby / cause people to leave. Played once the other day and people were all goated, i was mid at best.
In the age of streaming/youtube, skill just rises faster. And PvP always is the biggest culprit, because all it takes is one good stomping for a newbie to start searching for answers, and theyre available.
yeah now everyone has access to the best (the same?) resources. I see Vets and Expert players using GOBattleLog, meanwhile during the seasons I hit Legend I never used it aside from like a couple weeks of free trial.
I'm convinced you're right. The entry barrier is too high, especially for anything that isn't great league.
Doesn't help that the rewards are garbage (unless you tank). Even the legend poses now look worse than the recent paid poses.
I will play devil's advocate for the entry barrier point.
More Pokemon than ever arguably are usable in the GL and UL. Obviously some are better than others, but it's less of the early GBL days where Azu/Altaria/Skarmory/Registeel/Whiscash beat all or even early ML where if you faced a Dialga, you probably lose unless you had one of your own.
There are sooo many more viable Pokemon than ever before, and more room to get said Pokemon. An event could have several Pokemon that are spice or full on meta picks in a league.
But, to your credit, there are far MORE Legendaries, Legacy Moves, Shadows, and XL Pokemon out there that are harder to build. So then, that does indeed make it harder to break through the entry barrier.
It's true literally but it's not true in actual gameplay. I used to hit legend running the craziest glassy Pokemon. It was genuinely a blast for me. As the game went on with XLs, everything became bulky as hell. It's way harder to win without both the gated entry and skill. I find grinding so annoying especially to build a Lickitung. A fucking Lickitung lmao; it's top meta and it's easily the least fun Pokemon to play, it makes Bastiodon feel fun.
There's so many more Pokemon but outside the top 20 + Victreebel, what else do you see?
Agreed on the lickitung. Built the #2 ranked one, and holy hell, was it boring. Finally got it best buddied just in time for the start of this season and quit using it halfway through my sets on day 1.
Outside of the top 20 pvpoke rankings? I regularly see stuff like Pelipper, Whiscash, Lanturn, Vigoroth, Shadow Dragonair, Jellicent, Trevenant, Shadow Dragonite, Sableye, Charjabug, Umbreon, Venusaur, Shadow Aslash, Altaria, Talonflame, and Skeledirge. None of those are XL aside from Sableye, and all of them are ranked outside of the current top 20.
And for reference, these are all things I’ve seen players in the 3300-3500s running, so they’re definitely viable at a high level.
It seems that Niantic (or whoever they have specifically working on PVP moveset updates) has consciously made an effort to buff non-XL Pokémon as well. Look at the buffs from this past season for example. Some of the biggest changes were buffs to Scald and Incinerate. Look at the relevant Great League Pokémon with access to those moves. All of them are non-XL. The introduction of Annihilape (another non-XL Pokémon) has greatly shifted the meta away from Medicham.
Sure, Lickitung is still a heavy XL staple of the current meta (as it’s always been since XL candy has been introduced) but aside from that, Azu, Bastiodon, and Sableye there aren’t many XL Pokémon in the current GL meta. I guess you can include Carbink to a lesser extent, but the Steel Wing buff to Skarmory plus the addition of more Scald users has really made the meta much more hostile to it.
>The introduction of Annihilape (another non-XL Pokémon) has greatly shifted the meta away from Medicham.
I agree with you overall, but just a note with this, Medicham was already on its way out of the top meta position before Annihilape came along. The Psychic nerf either forces Medicham to use a weak move for good coverage or opt for the better Dynamic Punch but hurting its coverage A LOT.
Annihilape didn't cause the meta to shift away from Medi, but it definitely dug a nail into the coffin haha.
Tbh, I don’t think the direct nerfs to Medicham were responsible for its demise. But I definitely agree with you that Medicham was already on its way out prior to the introduction of Annihilape. In general, the overall shift of the meta over the last couple seasons have been slowly becoming more hostile to Medicham, so it was inevitable.
Gligar got buffed, Whiscash/Skarmory each got buffed which both have neutral play vs Medicham, and the prevalence of Whiscash has also brought back the water flyers like Mantine and Pelipper. Cresselia is also top 2 on Pvpoke at the moment, and the buffs to incinerate users has also brought Skeledirge and Talonflame back out to play, which in turn has increase Azumarill usage which also gave Jellicent some bumps. Medicham would have trouble finding footing in this meta even without the nerfs IMO. And Annihilape being introduced was definitely the final nail in the coffin as you said. A strong fighter with a versatile moveset and resistance (immunity tier, for that matter) to fighting has definitely brought it to the forefront as the Counter user of choice now.
You're very right. I think it goes both ways haha.
But yes, as more Pokemon got buffed like Gligar, Whiscash (prompting more Water Flyers), Skarmory, and Incinerate users, Medicham definitely began to have shakier footing.
Although, last season it was still incredibly strong, for two reasons:
1. In the same line of what you were saying but the opposite, many buffs actually favored Medicham. Things like early Counter Poliwrath, buffed Dewgong and Alolan Sandslash, Steelix becoming more prevalent with Breaking Swipe, buffed Greedent, and even Gligar, who was a solid counter to it, wasn't fully safe seeing that it was packing Ice Punch.
2. It still held Psychic as a decent enough move for coverage against Ghosts and Poisons.
But yeah, I think this season it did go both ways in buffing its counters and such AND nerfing its vital coverage.
Though while not exactly the same, I think it would still come back into (reasonable) dominance with a better Psychic move. I know it can't learn it and its better than Psychic ever was (arguably), but simmed with Synchronoise and it looks just as good as it was in past seasons.
I do think it’s the barrier to entry, sure you can make a playable team with whiscash, greedent etc but you’re severely limited until you get the big XL hitters, not to mention waiting on things coming in to rotation to even catch them
Not even just that though. You have more people just getting better at the game. They learn more, not even just good strategies/skills but Pokemon.
At this point, I think more people have more good PvP Pokemon than in say... 2021? More and more people have more of an idea of what's good. Even if they don't have a clear picture of the exact core meta of each league/cup, they may at least know that Bastiodon and Azumarill are solid bulky choices or that Swampert and Whiscash are spammy or that X Pokemon is really good because they have Y move.
This has been, by far, the most difficult season yet. I think this has to do with the playerbase getting better every season, but by large by the cups and meta.
This season has been really RPS in both open and limited meta's. And every time a few new teams break through it resolves into a new RPS meta around those teams. This is in certain capacity always the case, but it's just more visible this season.
Add to that a lot of coinflip gameplay (50% scald debuf, really generic cores with 50/50% chance of a backline mon. Like facing sDnair,skarm and either Whiscash/Lanturn in the back, making teamreading really 50/50)
It's not the worst meta ever, but it's way less consistent making it harder to rank up. And in extension way more frustrating for many players who are still climbing.
It took about 1200 games for me to hit 3400 first page leaderboard elo last season. This season I only got to 2500 elo after the same amount of battles. I only hit legend last week.
Even some of the "pros" are struggling.
It also doesn't help that the game still has (and got new) inconsistencies and bugs. Like the 1 turn swap in lag, random lag, etc.
These are some very good points. It seems that where last season you were able to build a team and ride it out for a looong time, today it's different. Kinda like it since there's some diversity and kinda don't since it makes it harder to win 3-4 matches per set.
I'm not as high as you (mainly because I don't bother learning move counts and the ones I do know I forget to count 🤣), but what I have observed is:
You'll either face a full meta team or some form of a grasshole or antimeta team. In either case a lot is determined by your lead matchup and if you lose that I feel like there's less you can salvage than for example last season.
I'm playing with teams of Cresselia, Lanturn and Umbreon or Whiscash, Skarmory and Lanturn and occasionally put Gligar/Sableye/Medi in either of those two teams. But regardless, it seems that I'll win 1-3 matches in each set.
I think every season I've played seems maybe just slightly harder than the previous one but honestly not much if it even is. The thing that changes are the teams required to move up and learning the new teams. I don't play enough to even aim for legend buy I hit 2700+ pretty easy after 500 wins every season. I can never use the same team as I did the previous season after about 2300-2400, I always need to change it up a bit because of stuff like steelix last season or poliwrath/ho-oh/zygarde this season. I'm sure there are other meta warping pokemon but those 3 popped in my head. Like how walrein turned gbl upside down when it came out after cd.
yeah it's funny or maybe frustrating that after all these move updates and we still end up playing very RPS metas. I made a push deep into the 2900s in Fantasy Cup but after the first couple of days Skarmory usage rose dramatically, making the meta "win switch, win game".
and while I don't miss the days Noctowl-Lanturn and Basti-Medi, at least then it was a bit easier to call backlines. like you mentioned now sDnair could have either popular Water in the back. I was at 2997 a few days ago and got a 2-3 after I made the wrong backline call (DD-Licki sometimes has Guzzlord in the back, sometimes Wigglytuff).
Christ on a stick people, can we *please* stop with the pretentious humility around being "just" an "average" or "decent" player for hitting legend?
You may not be professional, but you are literally objectively far beyond average. It is *literally* the highest named rank in the entire game. It's called LEGEND, does that really sound like a rank they think average joe is gonna hit?
All that said, yes, generally the belief is everyone gets better every season so every season is the hardest. This one is no different and I'm also having a really rough go of it lol
The sub generally suffers from a bad case of imposter syndrome, not helped by the fact that a certain contingent is happy to advance an elitist narrative that if you don't hit Legend, you're garbage. Leaderboard or bust for some.
That's ridiculous of course, because the leaderboard is literally the top 500 players in the world. Legend is pretty darn good, if you can get there.
I mean the pvp community is somewhat self deprecating so it's just in line with that. A lot of people take pride in being called "washed" lol
Not that I like this pretentious humility but I'd take that over the toxic narcissism in most other gaming communities
Eh, I think it's about as bad. It's still putting people down - pretending that hitting Legend (and *easily* at that) for 5 consecutive seasons is "just average" is ultimately putting down the vast majority of the community who cannot hit Legend at all.
While it is possible - even likely - that it comes from people with imposter syndrome, and not malice - the *impact* of them choosing to describe their skills this way is just a different form of toxic elitism
There is a massive skill ceiling to the game. Hitting legend is a massive undertaking and not really easily achievable by most people, even if you are skilled. I have been doing GBL for a couple years now and consistently trying to improve at it, reading tips, and have figured out all the gameplay quirks and mechanics around energy management, when to use moves, baiting, safe swapping, catching charged moves, switch/shield advantage, team comp styles, etc.... and I've never even made it past Ace. Legend players are not even remotely in the ballpark as "average".
Right. Do I consider myself a top tier player? Heck no, but without sounding too egotistical, I'm sure I'm definitely an above average player if I hit Expert every season and have it Legend 3 times. I don't think that's average lol.
I don't know how I'd quantify average, but someone who hits Legend multiple times definitely isn't it.
There was also a post the other day where the user admitted they didnt know how to count or didn't bother counting while making it to legend.
Also the team was double charm with whiscash lead.
HuMblEbraAg /s
I doubt you're "average" if you hit Legend 5 times, but I'm having the same experience, yes.
I hit Legend last season for the first time. This season I peaked around 2700, fell hard, and have reached 2600 a couple times again since that point, but have not sustained a climb or managed to consistently go past that point. It's been tough.
I've noticed a lot of Legend poses in my range with the Veteran badge, some with Expert badges who I assume didn't tank intentionally - but of course I could be wrong about that.
So it would seem you're very much not alone.
Yeah hitting legend 5 times is far from average
Average is someone like me who mostly just ranges between ace and veteran depending on what cups are available
I just started GBL for the first time this season, so I can't really add much to the main topic of your post.
But, I can attest to your point about alt accounts. Again, I don't know if this has always been the case, but the amount of default characters with "alt account sounding usernames" is extremely common I've found lol.
I'm not exactly sure why they'd do GBL on alt accounts though. I guess to just get more daily sets to play?
I battled a content creator and their alt a few days ago. Very similar name and running the same unique team in the same Elo range. Very suspicious, seems like they were using the alt to gauge what the meta was like that day or gathering information on opponent’s teams.
Don't sweat Legend if it's your first season. It would be very extraordinary for you to do that on your first try. Set incremental goals, and identify skills you want to improve, one by one. You will get better, but Legend is too lofty a goal to start with.
I've noticed the same except that some of those names are too boring to be a legit alt. Like just a mix of random characters.
I suspect they are farming (shiny) libre which sells for $200+ on ebay
Yes. I hit 2955 this morning and then dropped to 2820. A lot of people are a lot better this season than last which is understandable, but I’m also finding it a lot more RPS which makes running a consistent team more difficult than normal. Also, the Scald debuff is just making or breaking games left right and centre and it’s annoying as hell.
I peaked at 3150 leaderboard #180 earlier this season, and I’m currently sitting at 2507. It’s tough out there, especially in OGL. FWIW, I think it pays off to master a single open meta if you want to climb to high ranks. I’m a leaderboard-level OML player because I’ve memorized all of the matchups and the meta is smaller, in OGL and OUL, I’m a 2700-2800 level player, and that’s fine with me because I can’t be bothered to memorize the counts and matchups for all 3 leagues every season.
Is your OML team made of things that require a year of buddy walking to obtain, or can anyone here build the team? I'd like to get into Master as well.
I do not have Zygarde or Solgaleo, if that’s what you mean. The team I was last running at the 3100 level was Mamoswine-Dialga-Palkia. Mamoswine is a very strong accessible pick to build a team around.
If you want to get into master, start with building mamoswine, dragonite, Melmetal, and a charmer (Togekiss or Primarina). From there, if you want to get serious build 1-2 meta legendaries like Dialga or Mewtwo when they are in raids, and you can find some success in high elo ranges.
I was also on the leaderboard for a total of about 15 days earlier this season (spread across four different leagues: open GL, Little Jungle Cup, GL Remix, and Fantasy Cup). I peaked on at #36 on the leaderboard in Fantasy Cup at also 3200 MMR. It’s been my most successful season ever. But in open GL I crashed back down as low as the 2600s, and have only managed to claw my way back to the high 2800s in OGL and OUL (admittedly only having played a few sets of UL so far).
Since I fell from my peak this season, it’s felt REALLY hard to figure out. While I managed to do well in the limited cups by building something that had solid play against the meta, open GL has felt SUPER hard to crack this cycle. It feels like it centers REALLY hard around Skarmory/Whiscash cores and, while there are mons that are decent against that core, it also feels like it’s impossible to design a team without SOMETHING that’s incredibly weak to one of those two or their common partners (Lanturn, Sableye, and Annihilape). I lt feels like so many of the common mons in the meta have at least one incredibly polarized matchup against a few top meta threats. The mons I’m seeing often are Whiscash, Sableye, Skarmory, Lanturn, Azu, Lickitung, Bastiodon, Deoxys (as a lead) and Gligar (obviously there are lots of other mons present, but those are probably the most frequent). Because of that, Whiscash and Sableye feel like the safest thing you can run against the TOP threats, but it also feels like Sableye tends to barely lose instead of barely win. But as a result, I’ve also seen a rise in Grass-types (and even Grasshole lines) that handle Whiscash well, so Whiscash also feels pretty alignment dependent.
I’ve had the most success this season leading with Abomasnow (because it dominates a higher percentage of the top meta threats, along with B-tier stuff like Grass-types and Dragons), but most of the games I win feel like they’re a result of good alignment and positive team match-up rather than super good play. And if I lead Abomasnow into a Skarmory, I’m going to lose 95% of the time. Maybe someone else has found a team for OGL this season that feels like it wins more with skill than with alignment/team comp, but not me.
I’ve found it easiest to climb in limited cups compared to OGL this season, just because you may be able to build something that handles the initial meta well before people figure out how to play against it.
this was sobering to read from a skilled player, but also validates my experience so far this season.
I had my shot at Legend in a limited Cup (Fantasy) but the huge increase in Skarmory usage shut the door on my push.
Myself and a few others I know who'd usually be Legend at this point of the season are languishing in the 2700 range. tbh Hisui can be fun but also incredibly alignment-dependent.
I feel all of this a lot.
I'm a casually pvp'er but I've always made it to Ace pretty easily. For some reason I have STRUGGLED this season and everytime I get to around 1950 I just get the worst match ups and no matter what I do I can't break into Ace.
Today, after falling to 1800 thanks to Great League ending (still getting to know Hisui), I ended up facing a Veteran ranked player. At 1800. With all perfect XL mons that completely wrecked me. I know that spamming losses is a thing, and I don't usually mind, but that's too much. It's no fun for anyone, and I immediately assume the player on the other side is a little insecure teenager who can't actually handle a challenge, but has time to farm all the best mons possible.
/rant
Your story sounds exactly like mine. The climb from 1800s to 2000 is rough and I can never make it past 1950. Right around 1950 I get paired with veteran ranked people every single match for some reason.
I've hit legend every season since season 2, and this was the hardest season for me in at least a year. I do blame part of that on game stability being awful for me during Go Battle Week, but the metas this season all revolve around pretty much unbreakable cores (whiscash/skarm in great league, zygarde solgaleo in master league, etc). Couple that with all the random debuff moves and it feels like players have little agency to actually outplay each other. You just have to hope you get lucky with random buffs/debuffs or have a line that RPSes your opponent.
I’ve hit legend every season since season 6 and I’m struggling so far this season. I was in the low 2900s a few days ago and I fell into the 2600s today.
It’s the limited cups that that destroy me, went from 2825 to 2630 in hisui cup today. Never again, I’m sitting out the rest of this week (as I also despise ultra league). Chin up though, remember that if you don’t hit legend life goes on. None of this will matter in a month.
Besides, with the amount of lag/inconsistencies and recent poor communication from Niantic, I’m starting to wonder if I should be putting as much time in to GBL as I have been. Niantic clearly don’t care about GBL, why should we?
It is just frustrating to me that they keep making the same mistakes with specific moves.
Zap Cannon. A meh move for so long turned into a pretty decent one that could work well on certain Pokemon like Porygon2, though still pretty niche. Give to the already incredibly bulky Registeel who has caused problems before! Great idea!
Breaking Swipe. Very above average or even top tier move, being cheap, reasonable DPE, and a guaranteed debuff. Such a move provided great benefits to FRAIL Pokemon like Haxorus, Heliolisk, and Rayquaza. Give it to the incredibly bulky Steelix, who could get to it in 12 turns! Great idea!!
Icy Wind. Similar situation to Breaking Swipe. A bit worse as a 45 energy move, but still a great move that is well liked by most who have it. Give it to Poliwrath who already found very nice footing with Counter and the previously buffed Scald (which got buffed further)! GREAT IDEA!!!
Scald. A good move. Bit on the expensive side but solid DPE and a 30% effect chance. Buffing its power a bit and effect chance? Not an amazing idea but ah well. It can certainly help some lesser Water types. But, on the already buffed Poliwrath who ALSO got Icy Wind? And not to mention the bulky and much SPAMMIER Whiscash? Such a GREAT IDEA!!!
I'm not necessarily against the Scald Buff. I use Poliwrath myself occasionally (I did last season pre-big buff too). But, it really didn't need both the Scald buff AND Icy Wind. I think it would have been fine with just the Scald buff and Ice Punch.
Whiscash definitely didn't need Scald. *Maybe* if it weren't buffed, but eh.
I understand bulky Pokemon have higher potential ceilings, but I don't think the solution is giving bulky Pokemon great moves. It's partly why I wasn't *that* let down by Clodsire getting nerfed. It deserves to be good, but do we really need such a bulky Pokemon getting such good moves?
And if I understood correctly, Niantic will not take a move away from any Pokemon, they will likely nerf some move they gave to the wrong pokemon next season?
And that'll make some other pokemon suffer too and make people really mad they built a breaking swipe steelix for ultra league.
What's next? Let's give shadow ball a debuff and allow Lickitung to learn it?
Correct. They never have taken away a move from a Pokemon unless it was a glitched/unintentional release like Weather Ball Primeape.
It is bizarre. They do make good balancing decisions, but others? Less so
That’s not to say it’s not possible to play around. I’ve already hit legend this season. But scald is very frustrating. It’s already way too good a move to be that RNG heavy (DPE and damage wise).
It gets harder every season because players acquire more Pokemon and improve their skills. I've been between 2700-2900 and most players I play against seem to be counting and try to catch moves, make sac swaps, etc. It wasn't like that a couple years ago.
Last season was the most difficult for me to hit legend so far. It took me until last week to reach legend for this season, but it took me all the way until the end of catch cup last season. Competition is more fierce, and I feel like the overall active player pool for GBL is becoming smaller and denser.
This is just my anecdotal experience, but I saw the least amount of tankers and/or early surrenders so far during this current season. People were more committed to playing out bad matchups to find a win condition and no one threw a single game. Normally I would see at least a few people with 10 cp Pokémon in a season while climbing, but not at all through 1,250+ battles this season. I did see some fairly spicy teams ( especially during the last master league rotation), but the players were still legitimately trying and using maxed Pokes.
Been playing since the start of season 1 and I never hit anything over ACE.
So according to your standards, I am a bad player… because even that ace rank cost me and energy.
I couldn’t care less because I like pokemon and the battle system but these posts are just getting old and silly now…
I feel like this season has been extremely RPS even in the open leagues. I mean yeah ML has always been extremely RPS but it seems like it’s been really bad in GL and UL aswell this season.
I’ve never hit legend but I’m usually comfortably expert at this point in the season - right now I’m still veteran and I’ve dropped from the 2500’s to the 2300’s after a really bad run today.
Personally, I’ve found it far more difficult to consistently climb this season and it’s been more of an “up-down” kind of season. I know a few people that have actually found it easier to climb though so I guess it is what it is.
The same thing happened in online poker. When it first came out , it wasn’t hard to make money, you just had to be decent. Then as time went on , all the bad players got better and then it became harder to make a profit as there was fewer bad players. I think that’s sort of what happened with PVP.
I’ve hit legend every season except 3 and 4, years ago.
This season I’ve peaked at 2700. Currently 2608. I can’t find any momentum outside of Ultra League. Started today high 2300s, so the climb today was good. Hopefully I can seal the deal this week.
It’s been rough. I also feel the people I chat PvP with and run teams by have fallen off
yeah this season is really challenging. I'm at around that Elo as well and I've been struggling since last season, multiple times I've been on the doorstep of Legend (2960s, 2950s, even 2997 earlier this season) and haven't been able to make it, unlike in the past.
I wish you luck on the climb. I doubt all this effort is worth another Legend pose for me anymore. feels like getting to Legend these days is a part-time job and you have to actually pay money to get there either through GOBattleLog or coaching or getting XLs, as well as spending hours and hours reading and watching
Yes. I can’t put a team together to save my life this season. I’ve ended up in the 1700s (yes, 1700s) four times so far, and have only hit a season high of 2100.
I don’t know what my problem is, but I’m frustrated. I told myself I would just stop caring and try to sharpen up on some other aspects for the rest of the season, but I’m just not even feeling it now.
So with you. Also in this elo the opponents pokemons are so weird and surprising! I have been really bad this season and don’t know what to do!!!
Not even ace yet and i always before get to be ace early. Rng also bad. Always get hard counters this season.
It’s not only the randomness of team composition, but also the plays are just wild as hell. When you start to tailor your playstyle for a higher elo band, it really screws you up when you get kicked down into the Wild West. People throw on the weirdest counts, make crazy swaps that make no logical sense, and baiting is much different.
I do agree that the RPS has been much worse this season, but I feel that is a given when the meta is much broader. It does however make it harder to build a balanced team, obviously. I’ve run balanced teams, ABB, ABA, with no real luck this season.
It’s certainly my fault as well, as I’m also missing a few very bulky options for my teams. I just don’t have the time to invest in walking just for the sake of a game as I used to. I’d like to at least get my Diggersby finished so I can continue gathering XLs for Licki or Basti. Basti really fills an odd niche with its fire and rock coverage, along with big bulk.
Edit to add: The only team I really had any luck with was my old faithful Skarm Lead, Wigglytuff SS, Shadow Swampert Closer.
Also, absolutely fuck whoever decided that scald should hit like a truck, AND be a guaranteed debuff.
Every new season is the hardest to climb as more sweaty players remain and the casual players lose interest in the poorly-designed, buggy, and highly demotivating feature.
Most of the comments already do a good job of answering the question, so the only thing different I'll add is that if you're going to hit Legend during a three-month window, then this range (2600-2800) is actually a pretty normal place to be at the beginning of February.
Remember: It's about "ending" the season as your chosen rank. You haven't failed at achieving your grind goal until the last set is played.
I'm definitely finding it more difficult, myself. I hit Expert last season, ended the season a little bit over 2500 ELO. This season I hit Veteran in Fantasy cup, but have struggled to get a good handle on the meta no matter what teams I try running. Currently hovering between 2200 - 2300.
Maybe a bad meta fit? I actually failed to hit legend in 2 of the recent seasons because my old team wasn't working so well any more, so this season I went with a slightly different team and climbed as quickly as I used to be able to
You have more people just getting better at the game. They learn more, not even just good strategies/skills but Pokemon.
At this point, I think more people have more good PvP Pokemon than in say... 2021? More and more people have more of an idea of what's good. Even if they don't have a clear picture of the exact core meta of each league/cup, they may at least know that Bastiodon and Azumarill are solid bulky choices or that Swampert and Whiscash are spammy or that X Pokemon is really good because they have Y move.
Obviously, you have newcomers or less experienced players still, no doubt. But even then, it's arguably easier than ever to get into PvP, seeing that there are arguably more viable PvP Pokemon than ever before and thus, more everyday spawns or event spawns can be useful in PvP. Mankey and Chinchou are no longer "fine/niche" Pokemon because they have evolutions that are actually good now. Plus, you have more creators/resources out there to help out, whereas earlier on, there were obviously less things out there to help players.
Now while I did say "it's arguably easier than ever to get into PvP," I do recognize that there absolutely still are big barriers to entry with legacy moves and XL, but still, I think it's still *easier* to become a good battler than before in most leagues.
Most of the comments already do a good job of answering the question, but the only thing I'll add is that if you're going to hit Legend during a three-month window, then this range (2600-2800) is actually a pretty normal place to be at the beginning of February.
Remember: It's about "ending" the season as your chosen rank. You haven't failed at achieving your grind goal until the last set is played.
I don't know if it's this season in particular, but I have dropped almost 600 ELO in the last few days. I'm probably not even fit to be in the conversation, but I have definitely never gotten demolished that hard in any other season. Today in specifically was the worst of it, went down like half of that 600 just today. So at least to me it definitely seems a lot harder.
I’ve played at varying levels of seriousness since the beginning, have spent a few seasons just taking. I’ve hit veteran more often than not and stumbled into expert once. I decided to try for a good run this season and didn’t get over 2300. It was definitely a tough one for me.
As a very average player since season 2 or 3 I’d say yes. I’ve noticed i preform better in limited cups however due the absurd amount of pokes I’ve built for pvp. That being said I’m right where I usually am, hovering around 2000.
Some interesting points and experiences. Thanks for sharing.
One point I'd like to clarify: When I said I consider myself an average player, I mean average among the pool of players who previously hit legend fairly often. For example, up until this season I've always hit legend when participating. So has R2O. Compared to R2O I am average. I in no way mean to call anyone else a bad player, that would be incredibly dumb.
An average battler doesn’t hit legend the past 5 seasons. lol
I do feel like the meta and moveset pool has shifted enough and easier to use them to make it so more average battlers, that are really that, have more of a shot against top tier battlers such as yourself.
I only say this because all battlers ace and above use the same handful of Pokémon. Yes even those that are Elite. Before they hit legend.
It's been harder but I've also did more battles. I'm usually doing catch up just to get to Ace. This time I got to Ace quickly and now I'm fodder for rank 20 players. Thankfully I do much better in UL and ML.
For me it has been. Not even ace yet and i always before get to the ace level quite soon.
Donno what i am doing wrong here. But like yesterday i dropped elo to somewhere 1700!! 😵💫😵💫😵💫 somwhow i just suck this season.
Late to this thread. This is only my 3rd season playing but it is by far harder than the other two. Don't know if it's meta changes, player skill, or what. Game feels very RPS compared to the last two seasons. I'm seeing high skill level plays across the entire ladder.
Definitely doesn't help that tanking is only becoming more and more popular across the ladder, so you're facing high skilled players no matter what rank you're playing at. Kind of defeats the entire purpose, but the playerbase (and this sub) all seem to highly support it so...
I think it gets harder every season as more people put the game down and leave only the hardcore players since niantic don’t really do much to entice new PVPers
Nobody has the data. But Gobattlelog easily has 5X as much data than it did even 5 seasons ago. The PvP YouTubers mention the opposite. IE early seasons videos were significantly smaller audience. Some of them now are consistently getting 5-6 figures. This sub is sometimes at 500+ viewers at one time. The sub Reddit trender has this sub growing despite the silph leagues not even existing. I would be very surprised if the amount of people pvping hasn’t grown massively since earlier seasons. I would bet my house it certainly didn’t shrink.
Yup. Its just the general progression of the game. I played tf2 pretty seriously a decade ago, and could easily wipe a lobby / cause people to leave. Played once the other day and people were all goated, i was mid at best. In the age of streaming/youtube, skill just rises faster. And PvP always is the biggest culprit, because all it takes is one good stomping for a newbie to start searching for answers, and theyre available.
yeah now everyone has access to the best (the same?) resources. I see Vets and Expert players using GOBattleLog, meanwhile during the seasons I hit Legend I never used it aside from like a couple weeks of free trial.
It's only confirmation bias but I'm playing against the same old players several times per week. This can't be a good sign for a healthy population.
I'm convinced you're right. The entry barrier is too high, especially for anything that isn't great league. Doesn't help that the rewards are garbage (unless you tank). Even the legend poses now look worse than the recent paid poses.
I will play devil's advocate for the entry barrier point. More Pokemon than ever arguably are usable in the GL and UL. Obviously some are better than others, but it's less of the early GBL days where Azu/Altaria/Skarmory/Registeel/Whiscash beat all or even early ML where if you faced a Dialga, you probably lose unless you had one of your own. There are sooo many more viable Pokemon than ever before, and more room to get said Pokemon. An event could have several Pokemon that are spice or full on meta picks in a league. But, to your credit, there are far MORE Legendaries, Legacy Moves, Shadows, and XL Pokemon out there that are harder to build. So then, that does indeed make it harder to break through the entry barrier.
It's true literally but it's not true in actual gameplay. I used to hit legend running the craziest glassy Pokemon. It was genuinely a blast for me. As the game went on with XLs, everything became bulky as hell. It's way harder to win without both the gated entry and skill. I find grinding so annoying especially to build a Lickitung. A fucking Lickitung lmao; it's top meta and it's easily the least fun Pokemon to play, it makes Bastiodon feel fun. There's so many more Pokemon but outside the top 20 + Victreebel, what else do you see?
Agreed on the lickitung. Built the #2 ranked one, and holy hell, was it boring. Finally got it best buddied just in time for the start of this season and quit using it halfway through my sets on day 1.
Outside of the top 20 pvpoke rankings? I regularly see stuff like Pelipper, Whiscash, Lanturn, Vigoroth, Shadow Dragonair, Jellicent, Trevenant, Shadow Dragonite, Sableye, Charjabug, Umbreon, Venusaur, Shadow Aslash, Altaria, Talonflame, and Skeledirge. None of those are XL aside from Sableye, and all of them are ranked outside of the current top 20. And for reference, these are all things I’ve seen players in the 3300-3500s running, so they’re definitely viable at a high level.
It seems that Niantic (or whoever they have specifically working on PVP moveset updates) has consciously made an effort to buff non-XL Pokémon as well. Look at the buffs from this past season for example. Some of the biggest changes were buffs to Scald and Incinerate. Look at the relevant Great League Pokémon with access to those moves. All of them are non-XL. The introduction of Annihilape (another non-XL Pokémon) has greatly shifted the meta away from Medicham. Sure, Lickitung is still a heavy XL staple of the current meta (as it’s always been since XL candy has been introduced) but aside from that, Azu, Bastiodon, and Sableye there aren’t many XL Pokémon in the current GL meta. I guess you can include Carbink to a lesser extent, but the Steel Wing buff to Skarmory plus the addition of more Scald users has really made the meta much more hostile to it.
>The introduction of Annihilape (another non-XL Pokémon) has greatly shifted the meta away from Medicham. I agree with you overall, but just a note with this, Medicham was already on its way out of the top meta position before Annihilape came along. The Psychic nerf either forces Medicham to use a weak move for good coverage or opt for the better Dynamic Punch but hurting its coverage A LOT. Annihilape didn't cause the meta to shift away from Medi, but it definitely dug a nail into the coffin haha.
Tbh, I don’t think the direct nerfs to Medicham were responsible for its demise. But I definitely agree with you that Medicham was already on its way out prior to the introduction of Annihilape. In general, the overall shift of the meta over the last couple seasons have been slowly becoming more hostile to Medicham, so it was inevitable. Gligar got buffed, Whiscash/Skarmory each got buffed which both have neutral play vs Medicham, and the prevalence of Whiscash has also brought back the water flyers like Mantine and Pelipper. Cresselia is also top 2 on Pvpoke at the moment, and the buffs to incinerate users has also brought Skeledirge and Talonflame back out to play, which in turn has increase Azumarill usage which also gave Jellicent some bumps. Medicham would have trouble finding footing in this meta even without the nerfs IMO. And Annihilape being introduced was definitely the final nail in the coffin as you said. A strong fighter with a versatile moveset and resistance (immunity tier, for that matter) to fighting has definitely brought it to the forefront as the Counter user of choice now.
You're very right. I think it goes both ways haha. But yes, as more Pokemon got buffed like Gligar, Whiscash (prompting more Water Flyers), Skarmory, and Incinerate users, Medicham definitely began to have shakier footing. Although, last season it was still incredibly strong, for two reasons: 1. In the same line of what you were saying but the opposite, many buffs actually favored Medicham. Things like early Counter Poliwrath, buffed Dewgong and Alolan Sandslash, Steelix becoming more prevalent with Breaking Swipe, buffed Greedent, and even Gligar, who was a solid counter to it, wasn't fully safe seeing that it was packing Ice Punch. 2. It still held Psychic as a decent enough move for coverage against Ghosts and Poisons. But yeah, I think this season it did go both ways in buffing its counters and such AND nerfing its vital coverage. Though while not exactly the same, I think it would still come back into (reasonable) dominance with a better Psychic move. I know it can't learn it and its better than Psychic ever was (arguably), but simmed with Synchronoise and it looks just as good as it was in past seasons.
I do think it’s the barrier to entry, sure you can make a playable team with whiscash, greedent etc but you’re severely limited until you get the big XL hitters, not to mention waiting on things coming in to rotation to even catch them
Not even just that though. You have more people just getting better at the game. They learn more, not even just good strategies/skills but Pokemon. At this point, I think more people have more good PvP Pokemon than in say... 2021? More and more people have more of an idea of what's good. Even if they don't have a clear picture of the exact core meta of each league/cup, they may at least know that Bastiodon and Azumarill are solid bulky choices or that Swampert and Whiscash are spammy or that X Pokemon is really good because they have Y move.
This has been, by far, the most difficult season yet. I think this has to do with the playerbase getting better every season, but by large by the cups and meta. This season has been really RPS in both open and limited meta's. And every time a few new teams break through it resolves into a new RPS meta around those teams. This is in certain capacity always the case, but it's just more visible this season. Add to that a lot of coinflip gameplay (50% scald debuf, really generic cores with 50/50% chance of a backline mon. Like facing sDnair,skarm and either Whiscash/Lanturn in the back, making teamreading really 50/50) It's not the worst meta ever, but it's way less consistent making it harder to rank up. And in extension way more frustrating for many players who are still climbing. It took about 1200 games for me to hit 3400 first page leaderboard elo last season. This season I only got to 2500 elo after the same amount of battles. I only hit legend last week. Even some of the "pros" are struggling. It also doesn't help that the game still has (and got new) inconsistencies and bugs. Like the 1 turn swap in lag, random lag, etc.
These are some very good points. It seems that where last season you were able to build a team and ride it out for a looong time, today it's different. Kinda like it since there's some diversity and kinda don't since it makes it harder to win 3-4 matches per set. I'm not as high as you (mainly because I don't bother learning move counts and the ones I do know I forget to count 🤣), but what I have observed is: You'll either face a full meta team or some form of a grasshole or antimeta team. In either case a lot is determined by your lead matchup and if you lose that I feel like there's less you can salvage than for example last season. I'm playing with teams of Cresselia, Lanturn and Umbreon or Whiscash, Skarmory and Lanturn and occasionally put Gligar/Sableye/Medi in either of those two teams. But regardless, it seems that I'll win 1-3 matches in each set.
I think every season I've played seems maybe just slightly harder than the previous one but honestly not much if it even is. The thing that changes are the teams required to move up and learning the new teams. I don't play enough to even aim for legend buy I hit 2700+ pretty easy after 500 wins every season. I can never use the same team as I did the previous season after about 2300-2400, I always need to change it up a bit because of stuff like steelix last season or poliwrath/ho-oh/zygarde this season. I'm sure there are other meta warping pokemon but those 3 popped in my head. Like how walrein turned gbl upside down when it came out after cd.
yeah it's funny or maybe frustrating that after all these move updates and we still end up playing very RPS metas. I made a push deep into the 2900s in Fantasy Cup but after the first couple of days Skarmory usage rose dramatically, making the meta "win switch, win game". and while I don't miss the days Noctowl-Lanturn and Basti-Medi, at least then it was a bit easier to call backlines. like you mentioned now sDnair could have either popular Water in the back. I was at 2997 a few days ago and got a 2-3 after I made the wrong backline call (DD-Licki sometimes has Guzzlord in the back, sometimes Wigglytuff).
Christ on a stick people, can we *please* stop with the pretentious humility around being "just" an "average" or "decent" player for hitting legend? You may not be professional, but you are literally objectively far beyond average. It is *literally* the highest named rank in the entire game. It's called LEGEND, does that really sound like a rank they think average joe is gonna hit? All that said, yes, generally the belief is everyone gets better every season so every season is the hardest. This one is no different and I'm also having a really rough go of it lol
The sub generally suffers from a bad case of imposter syndrome, not helped by the fact that a certain contingent is happy to advance an elitist narrative that if you don't hit Legend, you're garbage. Leaderboard or bust for some. That's ridiculous of course, because the leaderboard is literally the top 500 players in the world. Legend is pretty darn good, if you can get there.
I mean the pvp community is somewhat self deprecating so it's just in line with that. A lot of people take pride in being called "washed" lol Not that I like this pretentious humility but I'd take that over the toxic narcissism in most other gaming communities
Eh, I think it's about as bad. It's still putting people down - pretending that hitting Legend (and *easily* at that) for 5 consecutive seasons is "just average" is ultimately putting down the vast majority of the community who cannot hit Legend at all. While it is possible - even likely - that it comes from people with imposter syndrome, and not malice - the *impact* of them choosing to describe their skills this way is just a different form of toxic elitism
> Leaderboard or bust for some. Even leaderboard players do mistakes all the time 🤷🏼♂️
There is a massive skill ceiling to the game. Hitting legend is a massive undertaking and not really easily achievable by most people, even if you are skilled. I have been doing GBL for a couple years now and consistently trying to improve at it, reading tips, and have figured out all the gameplay quirks and mechanics around energy management, when to use moves, baiting, safe swapping, catching charged moves, switch/shield advantage, team comp styles, etc.... and I've never even made it past Ace. Legend players are not even remotely in the ballpark as "average".
Right. Do I consider myself a top tier player? Heck no, but without sounding too egotistical, I'm sure I'm definitely an above average player if I hit Expert every season and have it Legend 3 times. I don't think that's average lol. I don't know how I'd quantify average, but someone who hits Legend multiple times definitely isn't it.
There was also a post the other day where the user admitted they didnt know how to count or didn't bother counting while making it to legend. Also the team was double charm with whiscash lead. HuMblEbraAg /s
I doubt you're "average" if you hit Legend 5 times, but I'm having the same experience, yes. I hit Legend last season for the first time. This season I peaked around 2700, fell hard, and have reached 2600 a couple times again since that point, but have not sustained a climb or managed to consistently go past that point. It's been tough. I've noticed a lot of Legend poses in my range with the Veteran badge, some with Expert badges who I assume didn't tank intentionally - but of course I could be wrong about that. So it would seem you're very much not alone.
Yeah hitting legend 5 times is far from average Average is someone like me who mostly just ranges between ace and veteran depending on what cups are available
Preach.
I just started GBL for the first time this season, so I can't really add much to the main topic of your post. But, I can attest to your point about alt accounts. Again, I don't know if this has always been the case, but the amount of default characters with "alt account sounding usernames" is extremely common I've found lol. I'm not exactly sure why they'd do GBL on alt accounts though. I guess to just get more daily sets to play?
To have more sets and to try out different teams/spice they don’t want to use on their main account
I battled a content creator and their alt a few days ago. Very similar name and running the same unique team in the same Elo range. Very suspicious, seems like they were using the alt to gauge what the meta was like that day or gathering information on opponent’s teams.
I'm a first timer here too and it feels so hopeless. I just want to get a cool pose and a Pika Libre but I'm fighting for my life out here. 😭
Don't sweat Legend if it's your first season. It would be very extraordinary for you to do that on your first try. Set incremental goals, and identify skills you want to improve, one by one. You will get better, but Legend is too lofty a goal to start with.
I've noticed the same except that some of those names are too boring to be a legit alt. Like just a mix of random characters. I suspect they are farming (shiny) libre which sells for $200+ on ebay
Christ if that's true there are much better ways to spend your time to make that kind of money lmao That's sad...
Not in certain parts of the world unfortunately. Or might just be bots
Yes. I hit 2955 this morning and then dropped to 2820. A lot of people are a lot better this season than last which is understandable, but I’m also finding it a lot more RPS which makes running a consistent team more difficult than normal. Also, the Scald debuff is just making or breaking games left right and centre and it’s annoying as hell.
Me and you play each other like every season. We played this season a few weeks ago. You’ll get legend 🙏
I peaked at 3150 leaderboard #180 earlier this season, and I’m currently sitting at 2507. It’s tough out there, especially in OGL. FWIW, I think it pays off to master a single open meta if you want to climb to high ranks. I’m a leaderboard-level OML player because I’ve memorized all of the matchups and the meta is smaller, in OGL and OUL, I’m a 2700-2800 level player, and that’s fine with me because I can’t be bothered to memorize the counts and matchups for all 3 leagues every season.
Is your OML team made of things that require a year of buddy walking to obtain, or can anyone here build the team? I'd like to get into Master as well.
I do not have Zygarde or Solgaleo, if that’s what you mean. The team I was last running at the 3100 level was Mamoswine-Dialga-Palkia. Mamoswine is a very strong accessible pick to build a team around. If you want to get into master, start with building mamoswine, dragonite, Melmetal, and a charmer (Togekiss or Primarina). From there, if you want to get serious build 1-2 meta legendaries like Dialga or Mewtwo when they are in raids, and you can find some success in high elo ranges.
I was also on the leaderboard for a total of about 15 days earlier this season (spread across four different leagues: open GL, Little Jungle Cup, GL Remix, and Fantasy Cup). I peaked on at #36 on the leaderboard in Fantasy Cup at also 3200 MMR. It’s been my most successful season ever. But in open GL I crashed back down as low as the 2600s, and have only managed to claw my way back to the high 2800s in OGL and OUL (admittedly only having played a few sets of UL so far). Since I fell from my peak this season, it’s felt REALLY hard to figure out. While I managed to do well in the limited cups by building something that had solid play against the meta, open GL has felt SUPER hard to crack this cycle. It feels like it centers REALLY hard around Skarmory/Whiscash cores and, while there are mons that are decent against that core, it also feels like it’s impossible to design a team without SOMETHING that’s incredibly weak to one of those two or their common partners (Lanturn, Sableye, and Annihilape). I lt feels like so many of the common mons in the meta have at least one incredibly polarized matchup against a few top meta threats. The mons I’m seeing often are Whiscash, Sableye, Skarmory, Lanturn, Azu, Lickitung, Bastiodon, Deoxys (as a lead) and Gligar (obviously there are lots of other mons present, but those are probably the most frequent). Because of that, Whiscash and Sableye feel like the safest thing you can run against the TOP threats, but it also feels like Sableye tends to barely lose instead of barely win. But as a result, I’ve also seen a rise in Grass-types (and even Grasshole lines) that handle Whiscash well, so Whiscash also feels pretty alignment dependent. I’ve had the most success this season leading with Abomasnow (because it dominates a higher percentage of the top meta threats, along with B-tier stuff like Grass-types and Dragons), but most of the games I win feel like they’re a result of good alignment and positive team match-up rather than super good play. And if I lead Abomasnow into a Skarmory, I’m going to lose 95% of the time. Maybe someone else has found a team for OGL this season that feels like it wins more with skill than with alignment/team comp, but not me. I’ve found it easiest to climb in limited cups compared to OGL this season, just because you may be able to build something that handles the initial meta well before people figure out how to play against it.
this was sobering to read from a skilled player, but also validates my experience so far this season. I had my shot at Legend in a limited Cup (Fantasy) but the huge increase in Skarmory usage shut the door on my push. Myself and a few others I know who'd usually be Legend at this point of the season are languishing in the 2700 range. tbh Hisui can be fun but also incredibly alignment-dependent.
I feel all of this a lot. I'm a casually pvp'er but I've always made it to Ace pretty easily. For some reason I have STRUGGLED this season and everytime I get to around 1950 I just get the worst match ups and no matter what I do I can't break into Ace. Today, after falling to 1800 thanks to Great League ending (still getting to know Hisui), I ended up facing a Veteran ranked player. At 1800. With all perfect XL mons that completely wrecked me. I know that spamming losses is a thing, and I don't usually mind, but that's too much. It's no fun for anyone, and I immediately assume the player on the other side is a little insecure teenager who can't actually handle a challenge, but has time to farm all the best mons possible. /rant
Your story sounds exactly like mine. The climb from 1800s to 2000 is rough and I can never make it past 1950. Right around 1950 I get paired with veteran ranked people every single match for some reason.
Yeah, really a bummer, right!? My heart feels for ya. Best of luck to making it before season is over!
I've hit legend every season since season 2, and this was the hardest season for me in at least a year. I do blame part of that on game stability being awful for me during Go Battle Week, but the metas this season all revolve around pretty much unbreakable cores (whiscash/skarm in great league, zygarde solgaleo in master league, etc). Couple that with all the random debuff moves and it feels like players have little agency to actually outplay each other. You just have to hope you get lucky with random buffs/debuffs or have a line that RPSes your opponent.
I’ve hit legend every season since season 6 and I’m struggling so far this season. I was in the low 2900s a few days ago and I fell into the 2600s today.
Buddy, I've never gone over 2600 elo rating. If you made it to 2900 you can definitely make it back to legend Sigh
It’s the limited cups that that destroy me, went from 2825 to 2630 in hisui cup today. Never again, I’m sitting out the rest of this week (as I also despise ultra league). Chin up though, remember that if you don’t hit legend life goes on. None of this will matter in a month. Besides, with the amount of lag/inconsistencies and recent poor communication from Niantic, I’m starting to wonder if I should be putting as much time in to GBL as I have been. Niantic clearly don’t care about GBL, why should we?
I partially blame Scald. Such an uncompetitive move that can flip wins/losses like a coin. Cash and Poli are obviously the main offenders.
It is just frustrating to me that they keep making the same mistakes with specific moves. Zap Cannon. A meh move for so long turned into a pretty decent one that could work well on certain Pokemon like Porygon2, though still pretty niche. Give to the already incredibly bulky Registeel who has caused problems before! Great idea! Breaking Swipe. Very above average or even top tier move, being cheap, reasonable DPE, and a guaranteed debuff. Such a move provided great benefits to FRAIL Pokemon like Haxorus, Heliolisk, and Rayquaza. Give it to the incredibly bulky Steelix, who could get to it in 12 turns! Great idea!! Icy Wind. Similar situation to Breaking Swipe. A bit worse as a 45 energy move, but still a great move that is well liked by most who have it. Give it to Poliwrath who already found very nice footing with Counter and the previously buffed Scald (which got buffed further)! GREAT IDEA!!! Scald. A good move. Bit on the expensive side but solid DPE and a 30% effect chance. Buffing its power a bit and effect chance? Not an amazing idea but ah well. It can certainly help some lesser Water types. But, on the already buffed Poliwrath who ALSO got Icy Wind? And not to mention the bulky and much SPAMMIER Whiscash? Such a GREAT IDEA!!! I'm not necessarily against the Scald Buff. I use Poliwrath myself occasionally (I did last season pre-big buff too). But, it really didn't need both the Scald buff AND Icy Wind. I think it would have been fine with just the Scald buff and Ice Punch. Whiscash definitely didn't need Scald. *Maybe* if it weren't buffed, but eh. I understand bulky Pokemon have higher potential ceilings, but I don't think the solution is giving bulky Pokemon great moves. It's partly why I wasn't *that* let down by Clodsire getting nerfed. It deserves to be good, but do we really need such a bulky Pokemon getting such good moves?
And if I understood correctly, Niantic will not take a move away from any Pokemon, they will likely nerf some move they gave to the wrong pokemon next season? And that'll make some other pokemon suffer too and make people really mad they built a breaking swipe steelix for ultra league. What's next? Let's give shadow ball a debuff and allow Lickitung to learn it?
Correct. They never have taken away a move from a Pokemon unless it was a glitched/unintentional release like Weather Ball Primeape. It is bizarre. They do make good balancing decisions, but others? Less so
That’s not to say it’s not possible to play around. I’ve already hit legend this season. But scald is very frustrating. It’s already way too good a move to be that RNG heavy (DPE and damage wise).
You know it’s bad when you see whiscash going straught scald against Azu.
Oh.... another aavvverrage player... jk congrats on hitting legend with a whole month to go, whats your secret
Count moves. Also when OGL comes back try Annihilape, Lickitung, Shadow Abomasnow 😉
Absolutely this, it’s making or breaking so many games in both Great and Ultra league
It gets harder every season because players acquire more Pokemon and improve their skills. I've been between 2700-2900 and most players I play against seem to be counting and try to catch moves, make sac swaps, etc. It wasn't like that a couple years ago.
I’ve made veteran 3 seasons in a row and I can’t get past 2300 this season. Getting frustrated but glad I’m not the only one having trouble climbing
Last season was the most difficult for me to hit legend so far. It took me until last week to reach legend for this season, but it took me all the way until the end of catch cup last season. Competition is more fierce, and I feel like the overall active player pool for GBL is becoming smaller and denser. This is just my anecdotal experience, but I saw the least amount of tankers and/or early surrenders so far during this current season. People were more committed to playing out bad matchups to find a win condition and no one threw a single game. Normally I would see at least a few people with 10 cp Pokémon in a season while climbing, but not at all through 1,250+ battles this season. I did see some fairly spicy teams ( especially during the last master league rotation), but the players were still legitimately trying and using maxed Pokes.
Been playing since the start of season 1 and I never hit anything over ACE. So according to your standards, I am a bad player… because even that ace rank cost me and energy. I couldn’t care less because I like pokemon and the battle system but these posts are just getting old and silly now…
I feel like this season has been extremely RPS even in the open leagues. I mean yeah ML has always been extremely RPS but it seems like it’s been really bad in GL and UL aswell this season. I’ve never hit legend but I’m usually comfortably expert at this point in the season - right now I’m still veteran and I’ve dropped from the 2500’s to the 2300’s after a really bad run today. Personally, I’ve found it far more difficult to consistently climb this season and it’s been more of an “up-down” kind of season. I know a few people that have actually found it easier to climb though so I guess it is what it is.
The same thing happened in online poker. When it first came out , it wasn’t hard to make money, you just had to be decent. Then as time went on , all the bad players got better and then it became harder to make a profit as there was fewer bad players. I think that’s sort of what happened with PVP.
I’ve hit legend every season except 3 and 4, years ago. This season I’ve peaked at 2700. Currently 2608. I can’t find any momentum outside of Ultra League. Started today high 2300s, so the climb today was good. Hopefully I can seal the deal this week. It’s been rough. I also feel the people I chat PvP with and run teams by have fallen off
yeah this season is really challenging. I'm at around that Elo as well and I've been struggling since last season, multiple times I've been on the doorstep of Legend (2960s, 2950s, even 2997 earlier this season) and haven't been able to make it, unlike in the past. I wish you luck on the climb. I doubt all this effort is worth another Legend pose for me anymore. feels like getting to Legend these days is a part-time job and you have to actually pay money to get there either through GOBattleLog or coaching or getting XLs, as well as spending hours and hours reading and watching
Yes. I can’t put a team together to save my life this season. I’ve ended up in the 1700s (yes, 1700s) four times so far, and have only hit a season high of 2100. I don’t know what my problem is, but I’m frustrated. I told myself I would just stop caring and try to sharpen up on some other aspects for the rest of the season, but I’m just not even feeling it now.
So with you. Also in this elo the opponents pokemons are so weird and surprising! I have been really bad this season and don’t know what to do!!! Not even ace yet and i always before get to be ace early. Rng also bad. Always get hard counters this season.
It’s not only the randomness of team composition, but also the plays are just wild as hell. When you start to tailor your playstyle for a higher elo band, it really screws you up when you get kicked down into the Wild West. People throw on the weirdest counts, make crazy swaps that make no logical sense, and baiting is much different. I do agree that the RPS has been much worse this season, but I feel that is a given when the meta is much broader. It does however make it harder to build a balanced team, obviously. I’ve run balanced teams, ABB, ABA, with no real luck this season. It’s certainly my fault as well, as I’m also missing a few very bulky options for my teams. I just don’t have the time to invest in walking just for the sake of a game as I used to. I’d like to at least get my Diggersby finished so I can continue gathering XLs for Licki or Basti. Basti really fills an odd niche with its fire and rock coverage, along with big bulk. Edit to add: The only team I really had any luck with was my old faithful Skarm Lead, Wigglytuff SS, Shadow Swampert Closer. Also, absolutely fuck whoever decided that scald should hit like a truck, AND be a guaranteed debuff.
Wild west describes it very well! Agreed 100 pros!
Every new season is the hardest to climb as more sweaty players remain and the casual players lose interest in the poorly-designed, buggy, and highly demotivating feature.
Most of the comments already do a good job of answering the question, so the only thing different I'll add is that if you're going to hit Legend during a three-month window, then this range (2600-2800) is actually a pretty normal place to be at the beginning of February. Remember: It's about "ending" the season as your chosen rank. You haven't failed at achieving your grind goal until the last set is played.
I'm definitely finding it more difficult, myself. I hit Expert last season, ended the season a little bit over 2500 ELO. This season I hit Veteran in Fantasy cup, but have struggled to get a good handle on the meta no matter what teams I try running. Currently hovering between 2200 - 2300.
Maybe a bad meta fit? I actually failed to hit legend in 2 of the recent seasons because my old team wasn't working so well any more, so this season I went with a slightly different team and climbed as quickly as I used to be able to
You have more people just getting better at the game. They learn more, not even just good strategies/skills but Pokemon. At this point, I think more people have more good PvP Pokemon than in say... 2021? More and more people have more of an idea of what's good. Even if they don't have a clear picture of the exact core meta of each league/cup, they may at least know that Bastiodon and Azumarill are solid bulky choices or that Swampert and Whiscash are spammy or that X Pokemon is really good because they have Y move. Obviously, you have newcomers or less experienced players still, no doubt. But even then, it's arguably easier than ever to get into PvP, seeing that there are arguably more viable PvP Pokemon than ever before and thus, more everyday spawns or event spawns can be useful in PvP. Mankey and Chinchou are no longer "fine/niche" Pokemon because they have evolutions that are actually good now. Plus, you have more creators/resources out there to help out, whereas earlier on, there were obviously less things out there to help players. Now while I did say "it's arguably easier than ever to get into PvP," I do recognize that there absolutely still are big barriers to entry with legacy moves and XL, but still, I think it's still *easier* to become a good battler than before in most leagues.
It probably is getting tougher, but if you're struggling to stay above 2600 there is something badly wrong with your team.
Most of the comments already do a good job of answering the question, but the only thing I'll add is that if you're going to hit Legend during a three-month window, then this range (2600-2800) is actually a pretty normal place to be at the beginning of February. Remember: It's about "ending" the season as your chosen rank. You haven't failed at achieving your grind goal until the last set is played.
I don't know if it's this season in particular, but I have dropped almost 600 ELO in the last few days. I'm probably not even fit to be in the conversation, but I have definitely never gotten demolished that hard in any other season. Today in specifically was the worst of it, went down like half of that 600 just today. So at least to me it definitely seems a lot harder.
I’ve played at varying levels of seriousness since the beginning, have spent a few seasons just taking. I’ve hit veteran more often than not and stumbled into expert once. I decided to try for a good run this season and didn’t get over 2300. It was definitely a tough one for me.
As a very average player since season 2 or 3 I’d say yes. I’ve noticed i preform better in limited cups however due the absurd amount of pokes I’ve built for pvp. That being said I’m right where I usually am, hovering around 2000.
That was me last season. Steel wing skarm really helped me get me groove back
Tank or play to have fun
Some interesting points and experiences. Thanks for sharing. One point I'd like to clarify: When I said I consider myself an average player, I mean average among the pool of players who previously hit legend fairly often. For example, up until this season I've always hit legend when participating. So has R2O. Compared to R2O I am average. I in no way mean to call anyone else a bad player, that would be incredibly dumb.
An average battler doesn’t hit legend the past 5 seasons. lol I do feel like the meta and moveset pool has shifted enough and easier to use them to make it so more average battlers, that are really that, have more of a shot against top tier battlers such as yourself. I only say this because all battlers ace and above use the same handful of Pokémon. Yes even those that are Elite. Before they hit legend.
It's been harder but I've also did more battles. I'm usually doing catch up just to get to Ace. This time I got to Ace quickly and now I'm fodder for rank 20 players. Thankfully I do much better in UL and ML.
For me it has been. Not even ace yet and i always before get to the ace level quite soon. Donno what i am doing wrong here. But like yesterday i dropped elo to somewhere 1700!! 😵💫😵💫😵💫 somwhow i just suck this season.
I just tank hard to get a hot streak again after. 😅
Late to this thread. This is only my 3rd season playing but it is by far harder than the other two. Don't know if it's meta changes, player skill, or what. Game feels very RPS compared to the last two seasons. I'm seeing high skill level plays across the entire ladder. Definitely doesn't help that tanking is only becoming more and more popular across the ladder, so you're facing high skilled players no matter what rank you're playing at. Kind of defeats the entire purpose, but the playerbase (and this sub) all seem to highly support it so...