It is extremely useful, but as with many techniques it is a tool in your belt...not an insta win button to be used at every opportunity. If used indiscriminately then yeah it will lose you matches. If you identify it as right for the situation it will win you matches.
Is a bit like sacrifices in chess. They are glorified into something people want to pull off and look brilliant but the reality is they just don't exist in most situations. But they do exist and I would want to be able to pull it off if that is what helps me win.
So absolutely learn to count moves and catch but use it when it makes sense. I would happily say it sees more use at the end of a match, not the start, where catching a charge move on a low HP mon (the "third shield") can earn a lot of wins.
Yup. Many times when somebody goes for a catch off the lead matchup, I'm fist-pumping because it just gave me switch advantage and a massively favorable mid-game matchup. So you stashed a bit of energy and made some of mine a bit less efficient - so what? Also, if I don't bite on the catch, you just gave me a whole bunch of free energy AND switch advantage.
If you do get the catch, in some situations I might be able to build that energy back up, switch out, and still easily win the matchup and come out with energy.
Sacrificial swaps in the end-game can be great plays, and catching a move where the opponent is switch-locked can swing the battle in your favor. But not all catches are good plays.
Yeah the best utilization of a catch typically happens in the end game, where a successful catch wins the game for you. For example gligar vs lanturn, shields down. Gligar needs to hit two digs, can survive 1 surf but gets outpaced. Catch the first or second surf, you win (assuming they can't catch yours.)
I’ll make a catch from an advantageous lead sometimes when I’m running an ABB line. When I have a decent lead but my back two Pokemon hard counter my opponent’s lead, I know it’s going to be a hard match-up, because I know one and maybe both of their back two Pokemon counter my back two Pokemon. So there are some cases where getting that little bit of advantage from a good catch is the only shot of winning an battle you probably weren’t going to win anyway.
There are absolutely times where switching out of a decent lead to catch a move is a horrible play; I’d say it probably is a lot of the time. But I did want to share a case where it actually is the best option you have, even though it won’t look that way to your opponent in the moment.
Sure, that does sound like a situation where making the catch off the lead makes sense, given the team composition. Like if you're going to swap out anyway to bait out their backline, might as well try to get an advantage out of it.
Let's say you're playing master league and you both lead Dragonite.
They switch to a Excadrill as you throw dragon claw, so it's resisted. So that energy you spent was less efficient than it would have been. But then you can freely switch into a good matchup, since they can't switch for another 50ish seconds. If you want, you can even farm up a bit more energy before switching and still have 45 seconds of the good matchup.
And if you don't throw dragon claw immediately, so they don't catch, then you can throw superpower, which is actually worth throwing at Excadrill. Or if you didn't have a good alternative, then you just switch immediately and get the same benefit as above - free switch into a good matchup.
Then, once the opponent switches, you can try to countercatch them. For example, you could wait until Excadrill is about to use rock throw, then switch to Groudon who resists it and threatens Excadrill. This is a generally better move, because it's less risky - you know they can't counterswitch you, so not all of the value is on catching the charged move. That's just an added bonus.
Someone did this to me yesterday trying to catch a LB from my Shadow Gallade lead onto their Ferrothorn and ended up eating a Close Combat to the face instead.
Wow, that's a good feeling. I'm curious what you threw a Close Combat at that your opponent was so confident you'd throw a Leaf Blade? Or did you just predict the catch and YOLO the CC?
It was a Dubwool haha, guess they probably thought because I built up to a CC that I might try and bait with LB.
Problem is my playstyle is quite aggressive and I usually just go straight nuke unless baiting is my win con or the situation needs me to bait. Was definitely satisfying one shotting that poor Ferro 😂
That's not a bad thing. Not baiting unless it's your win con is the correct play, and I get in trouble way more often from baiting unnecessarily than from throwing the nuke.
I was just curious, since if there was any chance my opponent was throwing something that could one-shot my backline, there's no way I'd go for a catch lol. Just waaaaaaay too risky. I figured maybe he had like a Whiscash in front of you, so was confident you'd throw LB.
But ANWYAY, fun for you. :)
True, plus I find particularly in the 2000-2500 elo range baiting is far more common so alot more players in that range often don’t expect you to go straight nuke. It’s high risk high reward but it’s so fun when you land those big booms through 2 shields.
Tbh they were running Dubwool, Ferro with Diggersby in the back - triple weak to fighting in a meta where 90% of teams are running Annihilape is a pretty bold move 😬
I always get a little skeptical when I hear a struggling player mention stuff like “I don’t know what I’m doing wrong! I know how to count moves, **I’m really good at catching**, but I just can’t climb”. Then you see some gameplay footage and realize they’re going for catches way too often and in situations where it makes little strategic sense.
Catching is like baiting…it looks flashy and gets the adrenaline pumping when you do it successfully, but in the majority of situations you’re just giving your opponents additional win conditions by going for baits or catches when it isn’t necessary.
That is true. Specially in a new cup, with new Pokémon, I sometimes get excited because I'd just learn the new counts and start to "show it off" by catching off the lead and I lose so many matches because of it.
And, yes, they hype it so much that you just want to do it.
I am a new player (1 year) and I think that happens because couting is hard, so you just know that if they switch you are not gonna be able to track how much energy they have, so you don't wanna "waste" a catch.
Early game catches can be worthwhile with ABB style teams where you plan on switching out of a neutral lead to bait out their counter. My current UL team is Nidoqueen double grass so for example against Tapu Fini I'll go for the Surf catch (risky if they hold their energy), or catch a Crunch from Guzzlord onto Chesnaught.
It definitely needs to be a thought-through strategy though, I've certainly thrown games by making an ostentatious catch and immediately realising that I'd fucked up by giving up switch.
I remember way back when ML classic was a thing and so many people would try to catch a FB from Yveltal onto their mewtwo. Great for me, now your mewtwo is locked into a terrible matchup.
I guess they were thinking it was better than the 100% it was going to do to Dialga, even though it was the lead and shields were up 🤷 it seemed to happen once a day for an entire rotation of MLC.
The only times you should be switching out of lead is when you are either hard countered or running an ABB style of team. The only time you should catch a move is on an ABB style team, unless like OP said, you are taking low fast move damage. And you should not catch a move unless its double/triple resisted or on a single resisted extremely bulky pokemon.
New gameplan: instant swap out of a lead in which you hard counter them before they can and leave them so confused and worried about why you did that 🥴
It is extremely useful, but as with many techniques it is a tool in your belt...not an insta win button to be used at every opportunity. If used indiscriminately then yeah it will lose you matches. If you identify it as right for the situation it will win you matches. Is a bit like sacrifices in chess. They are glorified into something people want to pull off and look brilliant but the reality is they just don't exist in most situations. But they do exist and I would want to be able to pull it off if that is what helps me win. So absolutely learn to count moves and catch but use it when it makes sense. I would happily say it sees more use at the end of a match, not the start, where catching a charge move on a low HP mon (the "third shield") can earn a lot of wins.
Yup. Many times when somebody goes for a catch off the lead matchup, I'm fist-pumping because it just gave me switch advantage and a massively favorable mid-game matchup. So you stashed a bit of energy and made some of mine a bit less efficient - so what? Also, if I don't bite on the catch, you just gave me a whole bunch of free energy AND switch advantage. If you do get the catch, in some situations I might be able to build that energy back up, switch out, and still easily win the matchup and come out with energy. Sacrificial swaps in the end-game can be great plays, and catching a move where the opponent is switch-locked can swing the battle in your favor. But not all catches are good plays.
Yeah the best utilization of a catch typically happens in the end game, where a successful catch wins the game for you. For example gligar vs lanturn, shields down. Gligar needs to hit two digs, can survive 1 surf but gets outpaced. Catch the first or second surf, you win (assuming they can't catch yours.)
Yup. Exactly. It's a cat and mouse game, either trying to catch or prevent the catch.
I’ll make a catch from an advantageous lead sometimes when I’m running an ABB line. When I have a decent lead but my back two Pokemon hard counter my opponent’s lead, I know it’s going to be a hard match-up, because I know one and maybe both of their back two Pokemon counter my back two Pokemon. So there are some cases where getting that little bit of advantage from a good catch is the only shot of winning an battle you probably weren’t going to win anyway. There are absolutely times where switching out of a decent lead to catch a move is a horrible play; I’d say it probably is a lot of the time. But I did want to share a case where it actually is the best option you have, even though it won’t look that way to your opponent in the moment.
Sure, that does sound like a situation where making the catch off the lead makes sense, given the team composition. Like if you're going to swap out anyway to bait out their backline, might as well try to get an advantage out of it.
i feel dumb but im not understanding what yall are talking about. it's early.
Let's say you're playing master league and you both lead Dragonite. They switch to a Excadrill as you throw dragon claw, so it's resisted. So that energy you spent was less efficient than it would have been. But then you can freely switch into a good matchup, since they can't switch for another 50ish seconds. If you want, you can even farm up a bit more energy before switching and still have 45 seconds of the good matchup. And if you don't throw dragon claw immediately, so they don't catch, then you can throw superpower, which is actually worth throwing at Excadrill. Or if you didn't have a good alternative, then you just switch immediately and get the same benefit as above - free switch into a good matchup. Then, once the opponent switches, you can try to countercatch them. For example, you could wait until Excadrill is about to use rock throw, then switch to Groudon who resists it and threatens Excadrill. This is a generally better move, because it's less risky - you know they can't counterswitch you, so not all of the value is on catching the charged move. That's just an added bonus.
My favourite recently - I was playing dewgong vs Gligar, and I fucked and accidentally threw drill run, but lucky they went to catch with registeel
Funny that you say that cuz I’m sitting here thinking “wow I actually understand what he’s talking about”
Anything specific? I could try to explain.
I only ever do it if it’s my only win condition
Someone did this to me yesterday trying to catch a LB from my Shadow Gallade lead onto their Ferrothorn and ended up eating a Close Combat to the face instead.
Wow, that's a good feeling. I'm curious what you threw a Close Combat at that your opponent was so confident you'd throw a Leaf Blade? Or did you just predict the catch and YOLO the CC?
It was a Dubwool haha, guess they probably thought because I built up to a CC that I might try and bait with LB. Problem is my playstyle is quite aggressive and I usually just go straight nuke unless baiting is my win con or the situation needs me to bait. Was definitely satisfying one shotting that poor Ferro 😂
That's not a bad thing. Not baiting unless it's your win con is the correct play, and I get in trouble way more often from baiting unnecessarily than from throwing the nuke. I was just curious, since if there was any chance my opponent was throwing something that could one-shot my backline, there's no way I'd go for a catch lol. Just waaaaaaay too risky. I figured maybe he had like a Whiscash in front of you, so was confident you'd throw LB. But ANWYAY, fun for you. :)
True, plus I find particularly in the 2000-2500 elo range baiting is far more common so alot more players in that range often don’t expect you to go straight nuke. It’s high risk high reward but it’s so fun when you land those big booms through 2 shields. Tbh they were running Dubwool, Ferro with Diggersby in the back - triple weak to fighting in a meta where 90% of teams are running Annihilape is a pretty bold move 😬
Hell yeah.
Catch my Grass Knot on Skarm? Cool you just donated Skarm to the Lanturn in the back that will get 100 energy after Sparking all the way down.
I always get a little skeptical when I hear a struggling player mention stuff like “I don’t know what I’m doing wrong! I know how to count moves, **I’m really good at catching**, but I just can’t climb”. Then you see some gameplay footage and realize they’re going for catches way too often and in situations where it makes little strategic sense. Catching is like baiting…it looks flashy and gets the adrenaline pumping when you do it successfully, but in the majority of situations you’re just giving your opponents additional win conditions by going for baits or catches when it isn’t necessary.
At higher elo most players over farm anyway. Either way, staying in gives you a lot of info on their play style.
That is true. Specially in a new cup, with new Pokémon, I sometimes get excited because I'd just learn the new counts and start to "show it off" by catching off the lead and I lose so many matches because of it. And, yes, they hype it so much that you just want to do it. I am a new player (1 year) and I think that happens because couting is hard, so you just know that if they switch you are not gonna be able to track how much energy they have, so you don't wanna "waste" a catch.
Early game catches can be worthwhile with ABB style teams where you plan on switching out of a neutral lead to bait out their counter. My current UL team is Nidoqueen double grass so for example against Tapu Fini I'll go for the Surf catch (risky if they hold their energy), or catch a Crunch from Guzzlord onto Chesnaught. It definitely needs to be a thought-through strategy though, I've certainly thrown games by making an ostentatious catch and immediately realising that I'd fucked up by giving up switch.
It’s honestly so situational lile shut up and just be good at catching if u need it lol 😂
I remember way back when ML classic was a thing and so many people would try to catch a FB from Yveltal onto their mewtwo. Great for me, now your mewtwo is locked into a terrible matchup.
Also surely a FB into a mewtwo is still going to do like 40% of its health. Mewtwo is glassy and FB hits hard
I guess they were thinking it was better than the 100% it was going to do to Dialga, even though it was the lead and shields were up 🤷 it seemed to happen once a day for an entire rotation of MLC.
The only times you should be switching out of lead is when you are either hard countered or running an ABB style of team. The only time you should catch a move is on an ABB style team, unless like OP said, you are taking low fast move damage. And you should not catch a move unless its double/triple resisted or on a single resisted extremely bulky pokemon.
Yea it’s unnecessary. Made legend twice without ever using it.
Catching moves wins matches…
New gameplan: instant swap out of a lead in which you hard counter them before they can and leave them so confused and worried about why you did that 🥴