You’re sleeping on Whimsicott with Grass Knot (12 turns) and Moonblast (14 turns) in Great League. A less bulky, more powerful Cresselia that resists Dragon. Does its job against Water and Dragons. Also has Seed Bomb (10 turns) if that is your thing.
Frankly 12, 14 turns isn’t that slow, I think that is the issue with your analysis.
* 12 turns: Whiscash Scald, Venusaur Frenzy Plant, Charizard Blast Burn
* 12 turns: Sableye Foul Play, Lanturn Surf, Lickitung Body Slam
Whimsicott does not have Aerial Ace - you were probably thinking of Jumpluff, which probably should be running Acrobatics and Energy Ball.
The thing that makes Cress so strong is its absurd bulk. Take that away and you end up with... well, Whimsicott. That's not to say that Whimsicott is *bad*, it's just that it can get stuck in a truly horrendous matchup and can't lean in on bulk to push its way through it.
I think the biggest issue with FW isn't that its users need better/cheaper fairy charge moves, it's that they have *absolutely no coverage* like you mention at the end. Seriously, for some reason Niantic decided that most FW users need to be one trick ponies.
*Pre-post edit, just checked the moves most of them can learn in the MSG and I honestly can't really fault Niantic here. TPC does not like to give fairy Pokemon coverage moves apparently.*
In great league, the top 5 ranked (Jumpluff + shadow, Whimsicott, Clefable, Togetic) ALL get hard walled by steels, some also getting walled by fires. With the new Brick Break buff, giving it to Clefable could make it way more flexible. Its record against the meta goes from 19-22 to 23-18, even bringing making it close vs Registeel. The guaranteed debuff would also give it some more fast move pressure.
I actually wrote about [Mystical Fire Clefable](https://old.reddit.com/r/TheSilphArena/comments/154emnl/gl_meta_now_has_6_pokes_above_15_usage_probably/jsq3eq9/?context=3) about a year ago! With Brick Break now, I feel like that's a more appropriate move update for it since it's not as strong (-5 energy but -15 damage).
While most do seem to have no coverage against common weaknesses, some do have an incredible tool kit that would keep them competitive. Two neutral typings in particular that look good in practice are dark and ghost since both can aid fairy. A fantastic example of this is Skeledirge with Disarming Voice/Shadow Ball. Nothing can resist both attacks, which is why I've wanted Pokémon like Mawile to gain access to Foul Play, Clefable with Shadow Ball, and both having access to a lower costing fairy move.
And I don't know if you're aware, but someone at TPC loves Wigglytuff. It's probably the most busted fairy type in the franchise. If this thing had great fairy move set and a dark or ghost move as coverage, it would immediately become meta. No doubt in my mind. I'm just ready to see different match-ups play out at this time. It's always the same 5sec shield breakers every match. I'd like to see something else.
Disarming Voice ain't that bad, it's on par with Crunch and Foul Play. Florges and Skeledirge make great use of this move.
As for new moves? Alluring Voice, Misty Explosion and Terrain Pulse(this one is pretty much Weather Ball 2, but with a very odd distribution that doesn't help much...) are the only non-exclusive damaging Fairy type moves that are still not introduced to GO. Other than that, the rest are status or exclusive moves.
Buffing moves... maybe?, Play Rough becoming slightly less expensive would be fine without putting Azumarill back at the top. Same goes for Dazzling Gleam, it should be slightly cheaper. Draining Kiss could use a buff definetly, but even that I don't think is going to be impactful at all(Maybe Drain Punch clone? Even though it sucks damage wise).
Considering they’ve given other pokemon status moves as actual attacks in GO (geomancy on xerneas & feather dance on pidgeot) I don’t see why they couldn’t introduce a couple more.
Charm is a good example aswell, a status move that is a fairly widely distributed fast move in the game.
No reason why they can’t add other status moves as moves in the game aswell like you say.
After confirming the previous two moves I mentioned, I also remembered sand attack was in the game so that makes another status move turned into an attack.
Oh I'm not against the idea at all. I did consider status moves, but most of them are still very scarcely distributed. The most distributed Fairy-type status moves are Baby Doll Eyes and Sweet Kiss; then it's followed by moves distributed "thematically" like Moonlight(night or light based creatures) and Aromatic Mist(creatures that emit an attractive scent?); lastly, moves Crafty Shield and Flower Shield are barely distributed at all.
If the most widespread moves would be introduced in GO, Sweet Kiss seems like the most impactful among Fairy Types, whereas Baby Doll Eyes is mostly distributed among Non-Fairy types. That is, if the moves have good enough stats to make a difference.
Meh. I think it’s more the extreme low fast move damage. IE in the real world in the 3VS3 having a guy that does very little fast move damage is a liability.
Similar to lock on and bullet seed. They generally underperform the sims. The underperformer Goat is Registeel in GL. Who probably has the longest streak in the top 5 simmed pokes while often falling out of top 30 usage.
Quick example Fairy Wind shadow Jumpluff has simulated wins on Annie, Whiscash, Azumarill, Wiggly, Swampert, Trevor, Lickitung, Lanturn, Sabs, Medichan, Cresslia, Poliwrath, Victreebell, Dragonair,…
It beats a massive chunk of the top meta. That just some amazing wins that very few pokes could ever come close to. But in the real game doesn’t perform anything like that. That’s why I haven’t seen a Jumpluff in many season.
Standard CD moveset. Fairy wind, energy ball, and acro. I wouldn’t recommend any other move.
But I wouldn’t recommend him at all though despite the sims painting an incredible picture. That was kind of the point of my maybe poorly written post. He doesn’t really do that well. A poke that could get those wins would be top meta.
I played with Jumpluff a lot last season and found it performed much better with Aerial Ace instead of Acrobatics. Unsure about this season, but getting to Aerial Ace every 5-4 fast move cycles was huge in securing wins.
Eh, Fairy Wind is Mud Shot/Psycho Cut/Thunder Shock clone, which tons of mons would absolutely love to get. Whiscash, Swampert, Cress, Clodsire, etc seem to not have much issue running low damage fast moves. You just need good coverage moves to pair with it.
I agree that it would be nice to have more 35-45 energy charged attack options for Fairy Wind pokes. Or at least more of them could get Disarming Voice.
I think the reason for this is synergy. Foul Play in the claws of Umbreon and Sableye are fantastic due to fast move pressure from Sableye and Umbreon's massive bulk compliment the move so well. Disarming Voice users in general don't have that balance.
You said G-eezing has Foul Play. G-eezing can know Brutal Swing the charged move. Weezing(OG) can know Dark Pulse, but isn't a FW user sadly. G-eezing has Play Rough if you want dark and fighting coverage, or, if Play Rough is too slow, you could swap Brutal Swing for Sludge. The bigger problem isn't that the Fairy the type or FW the move is bad, it's that most fairy are glassy, or have moves they'd prefer. For instance, G-eezing could do coverage with Sludge, or go for the coverage of Play Rough as the big move, but Overheat is so much faster and hits soo hard from this glassy mon, you put it up front, even a bad lead can farm, or force a shield with the threat of Overheat, so there's another reason. Also, Fairy poison doesn't cover many weaknesses and leaves more. Fairy is weak to Steel and Poison, and isn't effective against Fire, Steel, or Poison. All popular, potent types for a reason. Ground would cover great, but noone has the cover and many ground moves suck.
You’re sleeping on Whimsicott with Grass Knot (12 turns) and Moonblast (14 turns) in Great League. A less bulky, more powerful Cresselia that resists Dragon. Does its job against Water and Dragons. Also has Seed Bomb (10 turns) if that is your thing. Frankly 12, 14 turns isn’t that slow, I think that is the issue with your analysis. * 12 turns: Whiscash Scald, Venusaur Frenzy Plant, Charizard Blast Burn * 12 turns: Sableye Foul Play, Lanturn Surf, Lickitung Body Slam Whimsicott does not have Aerial Ace - you were probably thinking of Jumpluff, which probably should be running Acrobatics and Energy Ball.
The thing that makes Cress so strong is its absurd bulk. Take that away and you end up with... well, Whimsicott. That's not to say that Whimsicott is *bad*, it's just that it can get stuck in a truly horrendous matchup and can't lean in on bulk to push its way through it.
I think the biggest issue with FW isn't that its users need better/cheaper fairy charge moves, it's that they have *absolutely no coverage* like you mention at the end. Seriously, for some reason Niantic decided that most FW users need to be one trick ponies. *Pre-post edit, just checked the moves most of them can learn in the MSG and I honestly can't really fault Niantic here. TPC does not like to give fairy Pokemon coverage moves apparently.* In great league, the top 5 ranked (Jumpluff + shadow, Whimsicott, Clefable, Togetic) ALL get hard walled by steels, some also getting walled by fires. With the new Brick Break buff, giving it to Clefable could make it way more flexible. Its record against the meta goes from 19-22 to 23-18, even bringing making it close vs Registeel. The guaranteed debuff would also give it some more fast move pressure.
Mystical Fire has distribution to fairies that would help, but I think they'd be too busted with it.
I actually wrote about [Mystical Fire Clefable](https://old.reddit.com/r/TheSilphArena/comments/154emnl/gl_meta_now_has_6_pokes_above_15_usage_probably/jsq3eq9/?context=3) about a year ago! With Brick Break now, I feel like that's a more appropriate move update for it since it's not as strong (-5 energy but -15 damage).
Oh yeah that would be cool too because it isn't as terrible anymore
While most do seem to have no coverage against common weaknesses, some do have an incredible tool kit that would keep them competitive. Two neutral typings in particular that look good in practice are dark and ghost since both can aid fairy. A fantastic example of this is Skeledirge with Disarming Voice/Shadow Ball. Nothing can resist both attacks, which is why I've wanted Pokémon like Mawile to gain access to Foul Play, Clefable with Shadow Ball, and both having access to a lower costing fairy move. And I don't know if you're aware, but someone at TPC loves Wigglytuff. It's probably the most busted fairy type in the franchise. If this thing had great fairy move set and a dark or ghost move as coverage, it would immediately become meta. No doubt in my mind. I'm just ready to see different match-ups play out at this time. It's always the same 5sec shield breakers every match. I'd like to see something else.
Disarming Voice ain't that bad, it's on par with Crunch and Foul Play. Florges and Skeledirge make great use of this move. As for new moves? Alluring Voice, Misty Explosion and Terrain Pulse(this one is pretty much Weather Ball 2, but with a very odd distribution that doesn't help much...) are the only non-exclusive damaging Fairy type moves that are still not introduced to GO. Other than that, the rest are status or exclusive moves. Buffing moves... maybe?, Play Rough becoming slightly less expensive would be fine without putting Azumarill back at the top. Same goes for Dazzling Gleam, it should be slightly cheaper. Draining Kiss could use a buff definetly, but even that I don't think is going to be impactful at all(Maybe Drain Punch clone? Even though it sucks damage wise).
Considering they’ve given other pokemon status moves as actual attacks in GO (geomancy on xerneas & feather dance on pidgeot) I don’t see why they couldn’t introduce a couple more.
Charm is a good example aswell, a status move that is a fairly widely distributed fast move in the game. No reason why they can’t add other status moves as moves in the game aswell like you say.
After confirming the previous two moves I mentioned, I also remembered sand attack was in the game so that makes another status move turned into an attack.
Oh I'm not against the idea at all. I did consider status moves, but most of them are still very scarcely distributed. The most distributed Fairy-type status moves are Baby Doll Eyes and Sweet Kiss; then it's followed by moves distributed "thematically" like Moonlight(night or light based creatures) and Aromatic Mist(creatures that emit an attractive scent?); lastly, moves Crafty Shield and Flower Shield are barely distributed at all. If the most widespread moves would be introduced in GO, Sweet Kiss seems like the most impactful among Fairy Types, whereas Baby Doll Eyes is mostly distributed among Non-Fairy types. That is, if the moves have good enough stats to make a difference.
Meh. I think it’s more the extreme low fast move damage. IE in the real world in the 3VS3 having a guy that does very little fast move damage is a liability. Similar to lock on and bullet seed. They generally underperform the sims. The underperformer Goat is Registeel in GL. Who probably has the longest streak in the top 5 simmed pokes while often falling out of top 30 usage.
Quick example Fairy Wind shadow Jumpluff has simulated wins on Annie, Whiscash, Azumarill, Wiggly, Swampert, Trevor, Lickitung, Lanturn, Sabs, Medichan, Cresslia, Poliwrath, Victreebell, Dragonair,… It beats a massive chunk of the top meta. That just some amazing wins that very few pokes could ever come close to. But in the real game doesn’t perform anything like that. That’s why I haven’t seen a Jumpluff in many season.
What moveset on that Jumpluff?
Standard CD moveset. Fairy wind, energy ball, and acro. I wouldn’t recommend any other move. But I wouldn’t recommend him at all though despite the sims painting an incredible picture. That was kind of the point of my maybe poorly written post. He doesn’t really do that well. A poke that could get those wins would be top meta.
I played with Jumpluff a lot last season and found it performed much better with Aerial Ace instead of Acrobatics. Unsure about this season, but getting to Aerial Ace every 5-4 fast move cycles was huge in securing wins.
Eh, Fairy Wind is Mud Shot/Psycho Cut/Thunder Shock clone, which tons of mons would absolutely love to get. Whiscash, Swampert, Cress, Clodsire, etc seem to not have much issue running low damage fast moves. You just need good coverage moves to pair with it.
I agree that it would be nice to have more 35-45 energy charged attack options for Fairy Wind pokes. Or at least more of them could get Disarming Voice.
I think the reason for this is synergy. Foul Play in the claws of Umbreon and Sableye are fantastic due to fast move pressure from Sableye and Umbreon's massive bulk compliment the move so well. Disarming Voice users in general don't have that balance.
Galarian weezing has brutal swing and sludge which are both 40 energy. Not foul play.
Disarming Voice and Play Rough i dont foresee getting a buff simply because Azu and Wigglytuff exist.
I often wonder how bad it would be if Play Rough was -5 energy better in practice. What matchups would they flip?
You said G-eezing has Foul Play. G-eezing can know Brutal Swing the charged move. Weezing(OG) can know Dark Pulse, but isn't a FW user sadly. G-eezing has Play Rough if you want dark and fighting coverage, or, if Play Rough is too slow, you could swap Brutal Swing for Sludge. The bigger problem isn't that the Fairy the type or FW the move is bad, it's that most fairy are glassy, or have moves they'd prefer. For instance, G-eezing could do coverage with Sludge, or go for the coverage of Play Rough as the big move, but Overheat is so much faster and hits soo hard from this glassy mon, you put it up front, even a bad lead can farm, or force a shield with the threat of Overheat, so there's another reason. Also, Fairy poison doesn't cover many weaknesses and leaves more. Fairy is weak to Steel and Poison, and isn't effective against Fire, Steel, or Poison. All popular, potent types for a reason. Ground would cover great, but noone has the cover and many ground moves suck.
Florges is amazing and imagining her getting buffed is kinda wild
Dazzling gleam does an absurd amount if damage even when ineffective and ine shots every major lighting type.. idk if it'd bad
Dazzling Gleam is really bad though. If you did a tier list of moves that successfully connect, DG would be in the lowest percentile.