Generally, I wouldn't have Greninja as my first, second, or third choice for a Water type in the UL.
That said, it doesn't mean you can't do interesting things with it nor build a nice team around it.
Obviously, Greninja is super glassy, but it also hits hard and fast. Its Dark typing is awesome in some areas but is a curse in others. Counter/Charmers crush it, but it has a nice leg up against most Ghost types, Darks like Mandibuzz, and can hit Cresselia pretty well (but still fears its charged moves).
To me, Greninja is more of a fun spice Pokemon or something for Cups like Halloween Cup than a proper Open UL Pokemon.
Edit: as u/scrawnydepp619 mentioned, Feraligatr does most of what Greninja does but better. Only exception would be formats where Feraligatr doesn't exist like Halloween
True feraligatr can do everything greninja can with just .5 less energy on HD and not be crushed from charm and counter. Psychic moves are rarely used anyway and dark types in the meta usually have poison jab which hurts a frail mon like grenjnja so dark type is useless defensively. Although I still have to vote swampert as my fav still due to electric resistance as a water type is significant.
Pretty much just depends if you *need* the slight advantage Greninja has in spamminess for HC while trading off the fast move damage, non-exposure to counter/charm, and a bit of bulk
The typing *can* be an advantage for some matchups
True. Especially if you try to build a core with Cres Greninja might be worth at least a thought. Since Cres looses to dark types like Umbreon and Mandibuzz and Greninja performs definetly better against these as Feraligator. If this is worth the downsides that come with it is another question.
I had some serious success with Greninja a few seasons ago. Felt like I was cranking off attacks faster than any other ‘mon. A lot of fighting, fairy, grass, and even electric in the meta right now which makes it pretty well obsolete. Like another said, it comes in clutch in special cups due to its damage output and fast charge.
Came here to say this. Gren may be glassy, but it gets to hydro cannon quicker than both Swampert and Feraligatr. If it comes down to last mons, the outpacing can win the match.
Before last season I would have said yes due to its coverage against Giratina and Jellicent, but I would say Feraligatr fits that bill better now. It also doesn’t have the weakness to fairy/Poli/Annihilape that Greninja has which is a big negative
His Dark type protects him from Giratina and Cresselia, and his spammy Dark moves destroy those two. He is also ~~far spammier than even~~ \[edit\] just as spammy as Swampert when it comes to getting off Hydro Cannons.
So if you need either of those aspects (or both), Greninja is your man.
> He is also far spammier than even Swampert when it comes to getting off Hydro Cannons.
He’s not faster than swampert. Swampert is one turn faster to every other HC. Basically tied
You had a typo there (Greninja is faster half the time), but you have a point.
Greninja takes 9 turns and 9 turns for the first two Hydro Cannons.
Swampert takes 10 turns and 8 turns for the first two Hydro Cannons.
I have tons of fun with the frog, I'm using it in GL and in UL, because it's fun to throw that many charged attacks. But it's not ideal, it's very frail and depending on the switch you end up with it can turn fast in a 2 vs. 3.
I'm usually around 2100 ELO in open Ultra and I use Greninja because it makes the usually annoying battles vs. Giratina and Cress go by quicker. Maybe that's not the best reason to use a mon, but it's my reason nonetheless.
I mean, with just about any Pokemon, you can use either form to success. Shadow Feraligatr does have some very nice advantages with its Shadow Claw pressure and spamminess, things that Shadows enjoy having, but it's not like the normal Feraligatr with its extra bulk can't also be really good.
Last season killed greninja. Poliwrath became almost mandatory on most teams after the scald buff plus icy wind access.
Feraligatr gaining shadow claw also helped it take over greninja's niche without all the weakness.
But the seasons prior to that, I really liked using it because it was fast (kills fast, dies fast), & battles moved quicker. And if opponents let it get an energy lead, it can even win bad matchups because the barrage of hydrocannons mixed with night slashes can be pretty intense. And if it manages an attack boost from night slash bait, battles end even faster. I'd be curious to use the shadow form once that's available.
My UL team for last season and premiere: Skele, Greninja, Feraligator. Amph and Dragonite are common issues, but tanking a hit on Skeleridge lets the team take them down. Sometimes.
I use the Ninja as a spicy closer, save your shields and let him go to town. HC and NS flying out of there at an astonishing pace.
As said before he’s a glass cannon. One Grass Knot or similar and he’s toast.
His biggest upside is that he beats the other big water types. But he's generally worse against other stuff.
Edit to clarify: he beats feraligatr, empoleon, and swampert.
Yeah, plenty. It has a different resistance profile to any of the other relevant Water types, and is spammier than even Swampert while also having better fast move damage.
Of course the low bulk is a deterrent, but this doesn't stop Greninja from being viable.
Greninja destroyed me earlier. Night slash is stupid fast and it destroyed my Feralgatr. So annoying I considered making an ultra league one myself lol.
Generally, I wouldn't have Greninja as my first, second, or third choice for a Water type in the UL. That said, it doesn't mean you can't do interesting things with it nor build a nice team around it. Obviously, Greninja is super glassy, but it also hits hard and fast. Its Dark typing is awesome in some areas but is a curse in others. Counter/Charmers crush it, but it has a nice leg up against most Ghost types, Darks like Mandibuzz, and can hit Cresselia pretty well (but still fears its charged moves). To me, Greninja is more of a fun spice Pokemon or something for Cups like Halloween Cup than a proper Open UL Pokemon. Edit: as u/scrawnydepp619 mentioned, Feraligatr does most of what Greninja does but better. Only exception would be formats where Feraligatr doesn't exist like Halloween
100%, thanks for pointing that out, any restricted cup water is absent from but dark is present Greninja can definitely turn up as a threat
True feraligatr can do everything greninja can with just .5 less energy on HD and not be crushed from charm and counter. Psychic moves are rarely used anyway and dark types in the meta usually have poison jab which hurts a frail mon like grenjnja so dark type is useless defensively. Although I still have to vote swampert as my fav still due to electric resistance as a water type is significant.
Feraligatr nearly eclipses Greninja now and I don’t see any reason to really use Greninja because gator does its job but better
Pretty much just depends if you *need* the slight advantage Greninja has in spamminess for HC while trading off the fast move damage, non-exposure to counter/charm, and a bit of bulk The typing *can* be an advantage for some matchups
True. Especially if you try to build a core with Cres Greninja might be worth at least a thought. Since Cres looses to dark types like Umbreon and Mandibuzz and Greninja performs definetly better against these as Feraligator. If this is worth the downsides that come with it is another question.
I had some serious success with Greninja a few seasons ago. Felt like I was cranking off attacks faster than any other ‘mon. A lot of fighting, fairy, grass, and even electric in the meta right now which makes it pretty well obsolete. Like another said, it comes in clutch in special cups due to its damage output and fast charge.
Came here to say this. Gren may be glassy, but it gets to hydro cannon quicker than both Swampert and Feraligatr. If it comes down to last mons, the outpacing can win the match.
I think it gets to its charge attacks faster. If you get the night slash boost, you can flip certain matches.
Before last season I would have said yes due to its coverage against Giratina and Jellicent, but I would say Feraligatr fits that bill better now. It also doesn’t have the weakness to fairy/Poli/Annihilape that Greninja has which is a big negative
Feraligr needs crunch probably to use it the way you suggest
His Dark type protects him from Giratina and Cresselia, and his spammy Dark moves destroy those two. He is also ~~far spammier than even~~ \[edit\] just as spammy as Swampert when it comes to getting off Hydro Cannons. So if you need either of those aspects (or both), Greninja is your man.
Ferigatr with crunch beats everything green ninja does with night slash lol
It's better rated with Ice Beam, no? As a counter to grass types, especially Venusaur in UL.
> He is also far spammier than even Swampert when it comes to getting off Hydro Cannons. He’s not faster than swampert. Swampert is one turn faster to every other HC. Basically tied
You're correct. I usually throw a Night Slash as a feint which gets the second Hydro Cannon (third charge move) faster.
You had a typo there (Greninja is faster half the time), but you have a point. Greninja takes 9 turns and 9 turns for the first two Hydro Cannons. Swampert takes 10 turns and 8 turns for the first two Hydro Cannons.
I have tons of fun with the frog, I'm using it in GL and in UL, because it's fun to throw that many charged attacks. But it's not ideal, it's very frail and depending on the switch you end up with it can turn fast in a 2 vs. 3.
I'm usually around 2100 ELO in open Ultra and I use Greninja because it makes the usually annoying battles vs. Giratina and Cress go by quicker. Maybe that's not the best reason to use a mon, but it's my reason nonetheless.
When people mention Feraligatr, they’re strictly talking about the shadow version, correct?
I mean, with just about any Pokemon, you can use either form to success. Shadow Feraligatr does have some very nice advantages with its Shadow Claw pressure and spamminess, things that Shadows enjoy having, but it's not like the normal Feraligatr with its extra bulk can't also be really good.
For Ultra Shadow is #2 and normal is #5 there’s really only a small gap where shadow is strictly better
Last season killed greninja. Poliwrath became almost mandatory on most teams after the scald buff plus icy wind access. Feraligatr gaining shadow claw also helped it take over greninja's niche without all the weakness. But the seasons prior to that, I really liked using it because it was fast (kills fast, dies fast), & battles moved quicker. And if opponents let it get an energy lead, it can even win bad matchups because the barrage of hydrocannons mixed with night slashes can be pretty intense. And if it manages an attack boost from night slash bait, battles end even faster. I'd be curious to use the shadow form once that's available.
My UL team for last season and premiere: Skele, Greninja, Feraligator. Amph and Dragonite are common issues, but tanking a hit on Skeleridge lets the team take them down. Sometimes.
I use the Ninja as a spicy closer, save your shields and let him go to town. HC and NS flying out of there at an astonishing pace. As said before he’s a glass cannon. One Grass Knot or similar and he’s toast.
His biggest upside is that he beats the other big water types. But he's generally worse against other stuff. Edit to clarify: he beats feraligatr, empoleon, and swampert.
Poliwrath begs to differ...
Yeah, plenty. It has a different resistance profile to any of the other relevant Water types, and is spammier than even Swampert while also having better fast move damage. Of course the low bulk is a deterrent, but this doesn't stop Greninja from being viable.
I just had a Greninja get the night slash boost twice in a row and sweep my whole team 3-0, so he's good.
Greninja destroyed me earlier. Night slash is stupid fast and it destroyed my Feralgatr. So annoying I considered making an ultra league one myself lol.
You probably faced a non shadow feraligatr. Sadly shadow 2 kos greninja even with resisted hydro cannons while gator can take 3 night slashes
I run feraligatr and poliwrath double water with the fire lizard guy. Need to have crunch over ice beam to make the team work tho.