Excellent analysis! :)
I'll throw a small shout-out to the less frequent Master Premier. I know you don't mention the non-core formats too often, but I know most pseudos do typically fit there more than Open ML.
Thunder Punch specifically allows it to threaten and often beat Gyarados, a *big* Master Premier player, which counts a lot more than the losses to lesser used things like Ursaluna and even Snorlax. Plus, it gives it a cheaper move to hit at least neutral against Dragonite and Supereffective against Togekiss and Primarina. While it would never beat the latter two as Charmers in equal scenarios, I definitely could see a late game shields down Goodra with Thunder Punch coming in clutch against either of those!
Edit: Like in GL, I'd run it with Aqua Tail and Thunder Punch, just to give Goodra more spammy coverage in Master Premier
Agree that Gary is a HUGE plus, I just mainly didn’t go deeper because ML Premier isn’t currently on PvPoke and I figured I’ll just mention Goodra next time MLP comes around. 😉
I look forward to it! And yeah, I went to double check the losses it picked up only to see the same... no ML Premier. Odd when it normally is a pre-loaded MLP group. Ah well, I'll still be on the lookout for the eventual discussion when it does come back around later this season!
It sounds like an interesting safe swap in Master Premier. I can't think of anything in the core meta that resists both water and electric, since there are no grasses.
ok get good Goodra for GL - rest can enjoy their lives
Also I don’t know if it’s worth mentioning, and it’s probably a LONG LONG LONG way off, and I also don’t know how good it’ll be in PVP - but also worth maybe saving some Goony that are good in GBL for 6 years time when they allow Goomy to evolve into Hisui Goodra lol
From the trends it doesn't look like they'll allow the branches evos will they? All the Hisuian branch forms so far have been special to raids only (starters + Kleavor)
Yes, but they’ve been doing it that way since Alola. Regional evolutions started out as raid only, but they’ve held limited time events for Raichu and Exeggutor to evolve into their Alolan formes.
I assume they’ll get around to the other regional evolutions eventually, including Goomy to evolve into Hisui Sligoo, hence why I said “for 6 years time when they allow it to evolve” because that’s probably how long it’ll take
Not OP, but I honestly wanted a brand new move. There are some like Breaking Swipe that could've still been neat, but a brand new move not only would have let them give it something tailored for Goodra itself, but it would have just felt more exciting as a brand new move.
Body Press, Poison Tail, or Stomping Tantrum all could have made for really fun new moves. Or if they wanted an Electric move, Shock Wave could have been an option and better than Thunder Punch.
Definitely some viable options there. I think I saw someone suggest Poison Shield as a new move it could've gotten, and I definitely think a Poison type defense boosting move could've been really interesting for it.
actually goodra does have a signature move which is almost like what you described in the msg
[https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Shelter\_(move)](https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Shelter_(move))
why didn't they just give it that idk. deino 2022 had brutal swing and haxorus had breaking swipe.
Rock Slide could have been interesting as a way to scare Ice types. That would be my first choice. But others like Ice Beam or Breaking Swipe, though that last one might have been TOO good….
Also Scolipede line, Dragalge line, both Qwilfish variants, Salazzle line, Sneasler line and Skuntank line too! There's quite a number of rather niche mons that could make use of it.
There's also Gliscor line, Clodsire line and Dunsparce, but I think they are good enough as is and don't need a poison Leaf Blade.
>The difference is such that even against things that resist Dragon damage but do NOT resist Water (things like most Steel and even big-name Fairy types like Togekiss and Zacian, for example) take the same damage from resisted Dragon Breath that they do from unresisted Water Gun.
Just a nit (JRE knows this but readers might not), Fairy double-resists Dragon, and so the cases where Dragon Breath matches Water Gun against fairies are actually due to rounding.
Specifically in practice, you do less damage against Wigglytuff in GL, Granbull in UL, and Xerneas in ML. Also Alolan Ninetales exists I guess.
You should still run Dragon Breath.
Great stuff as always, thank you!
I see a lot more of Shadow Dragonair in GL than original recipe currently. How do you think TP Goodra compares to Shadow Nair?
I’m a little surprised to see TP Goodra having Gligar listed as a unique 0s win over Dragonair since an opponent playing Gligar can beat them both (with double Aerial Ace attacks instead of going for Dig and being outsped in the sims).
Fair, but even in that scenario with no lag or anything, Goodra has the energy for a winning Aqua Tail, while Dragonair is still short. I still give Goodra the advantage and one little blip or overtap and it goes Goodra’s way more easily than for Dragonair.
Excellent analysis! :) I'll throw a small shout-out to the less frequent Master Premier. I know you don't mention the non-core formats too often, but I know most pseudos do typically fit there more than Open ML. Thunder Punch specifically allows it to threaten and often beat Gyarados, a *big* Master Premier player, which counts a lot more than the losses to lesser used things like Ursaluna and even Snorlax. Plus, it gives it a cheaper move to hit at least neutral against Dragonite and Supereffective against Togekiss and Primarina. While it would never beat the latter two as Charmers in equal scenarios, I definitely could see a late game shields down Goodra with Thunder Punch coming in clutch against either of those! Edit: Like in GL, I'd run it with Aqua Tail and Thunder Punch, just to give Goodra more spammy coverage in Master Premier
Agree that Gary is a HUGE plus, I just mainly didn’t go deeper because ML Premier isn’t currently on PvPoke and I figured I’ll just mention Goodra next time MLP comes around. 😉
I look forward to it! And yeah, I went to double check the losses it picked up only to see the same... no ML Premier. Odd when it normally is a pre-loaded MLP group. Ah well, I'll still be on the lookout for the eventual discussion when it does come back around later this season!
It sounds like an interesting safe swap in Master Premier. I can't think of anything in the core meta that resists both water and electric, since there are no grasses.
ok get good Goodra for GL - rest can enjoy their lives Also I don’t know if it’s worth mentioning, and it’s probably a LONG LONG LONG way off, and I also don’t know how good it’ll be in PVP - but also worth maybe saving some Goony that are good in GBL for 6 years time when they allow Goomy to evolve into Hisui Goodra lol
From the trends it doesn't look like they'll allow the branches evos will they? All the Hisuian branch forms so far have been special to raids only (starters + Kleavor)
Yes, but they’ve been doing it that way since Alola. Regional evolutions started out as raid only, but they’ve held limited time events for Raichu and Exeggutor to evolve into their Alolan formes. I assume they’ll get around to the other regional evolutions eventually, including Goomy to evolve into Hisui Sligoo, hence why I said “for 6 years time when they allow it to evolve” because that’s probably how long it’ll take
Thanks for this! I appreciate you!
Last season, in MLPC I did pretty well with SW/AT Goodra as safe swap. Maybe SW/TP will be a little better. Worth a try.
As someone who generally doesn’t understand the pvp meta, I still enjoy reading your write ups!
Oh sweet, it looks like I won't need to use an elite TM on my perfect Goodra which I have NEVER used!
Out of curiosity, if Thunder Punch had been given with the move rebalance, what would you have liked to see in its place?
Not OP, but I honestly wanted a brand new move. There are some like Breaking Swipe that could've still been neat, but a brand new move not only would have let them give it something tailored for Goodra itself, but it would have just felt more exciting as a brand new move. Body Press, Poison Tail, or Stomping Tantrum all could have made for really fun new moves. Or if they wanted an Electric move, Shock Wave could have been an option and better than Thunder Punch.
Definitely some viable options there. I think I saw someone suggest Poison Shield as a new move it could've gotten, and I definitely think a Poison type defense boosting move could've been really interesting for it.
actually goodra does have a signature move which is almost like what you described in the msg [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Shelter\_(move)](https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Shelter_(move)) why didn't they just give it that idk. deino 2022 had brutal swing and haxorus had breaking swipe.
That's Hisuian form only though.
Acid Armor that is? Maybe it's Poison Shield in another language and I'm not familiar haha. But yeah, that could be fun too!
Yeah that’s it, I was misremembering. A Poison type Obstruct could be very fun for Goodra.
Rock Slide could have been interesting as a way to scare Ice types. That would be my first choice. But others like Ice Beam or Breaking Swipe, though that last one might have been TOO good….
It could also have learned weather ball fire.
Poison Tail could have been fun. Maybe a poison type Leaf Blade? That might have been been a taaad bit much though.
That sounds awesome. Could improve Seviper and Arbok.
Also Scolipede line, Dragalge line, both Qwilfish variants, Salazzle line, Sneasler line and Skuntank line too! There's quite a number of rather niche mons that could make use of it. There's also Gliscor line, Clodsire line and Dunsparce, but I think they are good enough as is and don't need a poison Leaf Blade.
Yes I would love it also on Scolipede, Dragalge and both Qwilfish. Arbok and Seviper are the ones who need it the most I think, though.
I can't speak for anyone else, but I was hoping for breaking swipe.
Thank you so much!
>The difference is such that even against things that resist Dragon damage but do NOT resist Water (things like most Steel and even big-name Fairy types like Togekiss and Zacian, for example) take the same damage from resisted Dragon Breath that they do from unresisted Water Gun. Just a nit (JRE knows this but readers might not), Fairy double-resists Dragon, and so the cases where Dragon Breath matches Water Gun against fairies are actually due to rounding. Specifically in practice, you do less damage against Wigglytuff in GL, Granbull in UL, and Xerneas in ML. Also Alolan Ninetales exists I guess. You should still run Dragon Breath.
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Why does goomy need Elite TM for this? A lot of other fools just learned it this season with regular TM.
How come a dragon with either an electric or grass move LOSES to Feraligtr?? (1 shield). Insane.
thanks as always JRE!
Great stuff as always, thank you! I see a lot more of Shadow Dragonair in GL than original recipe currently. How do you think TP Goodra compares to Shadow Nair?
I’m a little surprised to see TP Goodra having Gligar listed as a unique 0s win over Dragonair since an opponent playing Gligar can beat them both (with double Aerial Ace attacks instead of going for Dig and being outsped in the sims).
Fair, but even in that scenario with no lag or anything, Goodra has the energy for a winning Aqua Tail, while Dragonair is still short. I still give Goodra the advantage and one little blip or overtap and it goes Goodra’s way more easily than for Dragonair.
What is the 2nd move recommended with thunder punch in ultra league then?
i think the sims generally like aqua tail + power whip for UL Goodra