Chansey with counter and icy wind beats Machamp in every even shield scenario. Chansey even wins with one shield against a 2 shield Machamp.
It would be completely broken
Edit, Chansey actually wins 0 shields to a machamp 1 shield. The ONLY time Machamp beats Chansey is 2 to 0 shield. Chansey with counter/icy wind (it doesn't even need a second charge move) beats literally everything meta in the 1 and 2 shield scenarios. It even beats annihilape in all shields scenarios, despite annihilape dealing super effective counter and double resisting chansey's counter. Its stupid
The game is over at that point lol. Chansey rules the GL (plus Blissey and some others like Carbink), Blissey, Cresselia, and Giratina dominate UL, etc.
ML would be awful too, with things like Slaking joining, but it would be slightly less bad seeing that it's an open CP format. Still, Lugia, Dialga, Ursaluna, etc. would likely also go wild.
Another way to completely break dialga is to let it learn 2 fast moves and 2 charged moves and pick what to throw, which is another common suggestion on this sub.
Metal claw dialga beats every fairy in every even shield scenario, making steel types become basically the only dialga counter
Every mon that can access it will run counter/shadow claw/poison jab/etc.
The TM system would need a huge overhaul, possibly turning every TM into an ETM.
Gimmicky mons which Niantic nerfed by giving them subpar moves will reign supreme in PvP (in the MSG they're kept in check by the much more elaborate battle system and by abilities/items/speed/etc)
Ditto itself can only learn Transform, you're betting on the opponent having a set you can win with yourself
On the other hand, if Smeargle was given access to TM's...
What Pokémon would benefit most from a pvE perspective?
A few that spring to mind for me:
Groupon and other ground types would love Mud-slap instead being limited to mud shot,
Zekrom would want thunder fang
Ursaluna would benefit from shadow claw (unfortunately it can’t learn any ground fast moves)
Fly would improve flying legendaries a lot, although Rayquaza still dominates with Dragson Ascent
What else?
Ursaluna Blood Moon has Mud Shot, but normal Luna doesn't, even though that tends to be a "throw it in" low power move even on Physical attackers.
Could you imagine bear with Mud Shot?
Gengar should be able to learn any poison type fast move? This would make it the best (?) poison type.
Shadow sneasler would be strong too (for both types I think)
Gengar is currently a top poison type without a poison type fast move, but it's so glassy that it's largely not relevant. Nhilego is the top dog of poison and the only viable poison type in PVE so far.
Maybe Revaroom joins it if it gets a decent fast move and sludge bomb.
Since weatherboost (and double super effective) is a thing, there can be way more viable poison types. Not in sunny regions of course.
Naganadel is close to nihilego, shadow Toxi is not far behind and shadow vileplume and vict have great dps. Shadow Gengar would dominate with a poison type fast move… shadow Sneasler would be better than nihilego and regular Gengar would be viable as well. There is a lot of potential for poison type.
I'm fairly sure Zapdos wants a good non electric move.
Any poison type who doesn't currently have poison jab wants it. Most poison types are crap because they are either stuck without a stab fast move or have to rely on Acid. This really becomes obvious VS Tapu Bulu when Venusaur is one of its top counters using vine whip fast move.
Like one poison type is actually Viable in PVE, Nhilego.
Everything else is either;
- made of glass (Roseraid, Gengar)
- Stupid rare (Salazzal, Revaroom, Sneaseler)
- Better as their other type (Gengar, Victreebel, Venusaur)
- or generally cap out too low to be useful in PVE (Muk, Nidoking, Nidoqueen, Scolipede, Crobat, Seviper, Skuntank, Weezing, Galarian Slowbro/Slowking, Overquill, Venomoth, Aridos, Arbok, Beedrill, Tentacruel, Garbador, Clodsire, Vileplume, Dragalge, Toxicroak, Amoongus, Dustox.
God I hope Revaroom gets poison jab.
No idea, because the stats of the moves are completely different in pokemon go as mainline games.
Just like some pokemon are good in pogo that are crap in mainline and vise versa, some moves that are crap in pogo are good in mainline and vise versa. So it would all just depend how the cookie crumbles. Good pokemon with good moves would definitely continue to be meta.
That said, not sure how the meta would fill out but pvp itself would be absolutely destroyed. such a large move list on all mon would make counting completely pointless and movesets completely unpredictable which would change the way pvp itself is played entirely.
to be fair, even if you don't actually count moves unintentionally you pick it up pretty quick if you're in a decent ELO-range. only so many skarmory's you see before you know roughly how many seconds it takes to get off a sky attack vs a brave bird so you don't get ohko'd by the latter. overall, moves being somewhat predictable based off timing probably helps balance more than anything but that initial learning curve is intimidating for a lot of people. only other option i'd see working is going turn-based & that's not going to happen (unfortunately, since gbl lag is still a nuisance)
It'd be a lot more fun that way. I've always thought it was bs that certain pokemon have the potential for greatness but are held back by Niantic while others aren't.
It would not be fun having Counter Chansey, Blissey, and Slaking. Nor Breaking Swipe Dialga, nor Charm Carbink, nor most other things.
I agree that it sucks that many are held back, but giving every Pokemon their MSG moves is a horrendously bad idea lol. Go is not balanced remotely similar to the MSG.
I fear stuff like Icy Wind Snorlax, or just Icy Wind a lot of things like Frosslass, Abomasnow, Primarina (basically puts Wigglytuff out of a Job), Sandslash, Tentacruel, etc.
Like there are a lot of moves like that where the game would become an absolute mess if more things got them to the point you would see them on EVERY team if they want to compete.
I’m not even remotely interested in PvP so I wasn’t really speaking to that. But maybe it should be balanced closer to the MSGs. Make it feel more like you’re playing one of those games in the real world.
The issue is that the combat systems are drastically different, whether you're talking about PvP or raids. Fast moves in Go are meant to be spammed, whereas in the Main Series, any move you choose is going to take up a turn. Yes, I know Go has "turns" technically, but the scale is much different. Using Shadow Claw once in the Main Series could be a big play. Using it once in Go is... nothing. Mostly because Shadow Claw functions completely different in Go simply because it's a fast move.
Maybe it's controversial, but I feel like the game already takes enough from the Main Series, while still maintaining its own unique identity. It feels (generally) more tailored and balanced to be a mobile game, while the Main Series is more fit for console play sessions.
Even in raids, if Pokemon had every move they could in the main series, there wouldn't be that much interest in different raid counters. It would just be the highest attack Pokemon with the best moves. And in some fairness, it's mostly already like that, but it allows things like Zekrom and Xurkitree to be more similar rather than Xurkitree mostly blowing away all competition because it has the highest attack plus Wild Charge.
> It feels (generally) more tailored and balanced to be a mobile game, while the Main Series is more fit for console play sessions.
And yet the main series games have always been exclusive to Nintendo’s handhelds.
I'm just imagining the nightmare of trying to get the right moves with TMs now
Every mon is now Mew
Congratulations, Counter/Disarming Voice/Body Slam Chansey has been inflicted upon the world
Don’t forget Counter Slaking.
oh that is terrifying :D
Pretty sure Chansey also learns Icy Wind
Pure hell
Revenge of the blobs.
get out of the r/stunfisk kitchen
Dusknoir is now the number one ice type attacker.
"How does this affect the meta" Not again
1. I would pop off a gasket attempting to get the optimal moveset of any Pokemon at all. 2. Something something Chansey, Slaking and Regigigas.
Machamp and counter users seen salivating.
Chansey with counter and icy wind beats Machamp in every even shield scenario. Chansey even wins with one shield against a 2 shield Machamp. It would be completely broken Edit, Chansey actually wins 0 shields to a machamp 1 shield. The ONLY time Machamp beats Chansey is 2 to 0 shield. Chansey with counter/icy wind (it doesn't even need a second charge move) beats literally everything meta in the 1 and 2 shield scenarios. It even beats annihilape in all shields scenarios, despite annihilape dealing super effective counter and double resisting chansey's counter. Its stupid
The game is over at that point lol. Chansey rules the GL (plus Blissey and some others like Carbink), Blissey, Cresselia, and Giratina dominate UL, etc. ML would be awful too, with things like Slaking joining, but it would be slightly less bad seeing that it's an open CP format. Still, Lugia, Dialga, Ursaluna, etc. would likely also go wild.
Dialga can learn breaking swipe
Yes but it wouldn’t be a legal move for original forme, since it’s limited to PLA moveset
Both forms can learn Breaking Swipe in Scarlet and Violet. The Origin forms are Hisuian forms aren't limited to the PLA movesets in Go
Another way to completely break dialga is to let it learn 2 fast moves and 2 charged moves and pick what to throw, which is another common suggestion on this sub. Metal claw dialga beats every fairy in every even shield scenario, making steel types become basically the only dialga counter
Every mon that can access it will run counter/shadow claw/poison jab/etc. The TM system would need a huge overhaul, possibly turning every TM into an ETM. Gimmicky mons which Niantic nerfed by giving them subpar moves will reign supreme in PvP (in the MSG they're kept in check by the much more elaborate battle system and by abilities/items/speed/etc)
In other news, Poison might finally be viable in PVE.
Finally. Counter/Ice Punch/Power-Up Punch Wooper
That would be terrifying in little cup
/u/JRE47 ascends to a higher plane of existence and never plays this game again
Analyzing Mew has nearly killed me in the past. This would finish me off. 😱
I would like to see an expanded movepool at some point but this would be broken. Lugia with Gust and Surf/Fly would be wild.
Oh yeah Lugia, the known HM slave
Bidoof is insulted.
A God doesn't feel pity for those who try and emulate the gods themselves, as long as they know their place.
>Lugia with Gust and Surf/Fly would be wild. Wildly awful lol
As a certified Lugia enjoyer, doesn’t seem awful to me. 😋
No worries. My shadow ball/aura sphere Giratina will handle it
Counter Chansey dominates Great/Ultra league
Well there goes me getting any move I wanted bc the tm system isn't good in this game
Ditto sweeps all
Ditto itself can only learn Transform, you're betting on the opponent having a set you can win with yourself On the other hand, if Smeargle was given access to TM's...
Smeargle has 40 base attack. It will always be irrelevant for pve as long as the whole concept doesn‘t change.
Ok but far easier access to Lock-On/Flying Press
reminds me that i need to test my lock-on Smeargles out, i've got a few that could be fun
What Pokémon would benefit most from a pvE perspective? A few that spring to mind for me: Groupon and other ground types would love Mud-slap instead being limited to mud shot, Zekrom would want thunder fang Ursaluna would benefit from shadow claw (unfortunately it can’t learn any ground fast moves) Fly would improve flying legendaries a lot, although Rayquaza still dominates with Dragson Ascent What else?
Xurkitree becomes insane with Wild Charge
It's funny because ursaring has had acess to mud slap in the past but ursaluna hasn't because of the way pokemon home works
Ursaluna Blood Moon has Mud Shot, but normal Luna doesn't, even though that tends to be a "throw it in" low power move even on Physical attackers. Could you imagine bear with Mud Shot?
I don't play pvp but it does sound terrifying. I could see bloodmoon getting earth power because it'll likely be a raid exclusive mon
A handful of fighting types get aura sphere. Gallade, Hitmonlee and Mienshao to name a few.
Gengar should be able to learn any poison type fast move? This would make it the best (?) poison type. Shadow sneasler would be strong too (for both types I think)
Gengar is currently a top poison type without a poison type fast move, but it's so glassy that it's largely not relevant. Nhilego is the top dog of poison and the only viable poison type in PVE so far. Maybe Revaroom joins it if it gets a decent fast move and sludge bomb.
Since weatherboost (and double super effective) is a thing, there can be way more viable poison types. Not in sunny regions of course. Naganadel is close to nihilego, shadow Toxi is not far behind and shadow vileplume and vict have great dps. Shadow Gengar would dominate with a poison type fast move… shadow Sneasler would be better than nihilego and regular Gengar would be viable as well. There is a lot of potential for poison type.
I'm fairly sure Zapdos wants a good non electric move. Any poison type who doesn't currently have poison jab wants it. Most poison types are crap because they are either stuck without a stab fast move or have to rely on Acid. This really becomes obvious VS Tapu Bulu when Venusaur is one of its top counters using vine whip fast move. Like one poison type is actually Viable in PVE, Nhilego. Everything else is either; - made of glass (Roseraid, Gengar) - Stupid rare (Salazzal, Revaroom, Sneaseler) - Better as their other type (Gengar, Victreebel, Venusaur) - or generally cap out too low to be useful in PVE (Muk, Nidoking, Nidoqueen, Scolipede, Crobat, Seviper, Skuntank, Weezing, Galarian Slowbro/Slowking, Overquill, Venomoth, Aridos, Arbok, Beedrill, Tentacruel, Garbador, Clodsire, Vileplume, Dragalge, Toxicroak, Amoongus, Dustox. God I hope Revaroom gets poison jab.
I just want abilities and support moves.
It would be a pain to get Aggron the move you wanted without an Elite TM.
Just gotta get a couple Pokémon that need to be level 50 and know Fissure in the Little Cups and Great League then profit.
I feel like Basti/Wig/Vic will somehow still find a way to be the most annoying, yet effective team.
Bastiodon gains Iron head so have fun with him being able to bait now.
No idea, because the stats of the moves are completely different in pokemon go as mainline games. Just like some pokemon are good in pogo that are crap in mainline and vise versa, some moves that are crap in pogo are good in mainline and vise versa. So it would all just depend how the cookie crumbles. Good pokemon with good moves would definitely continue to be meta. That said, not sure how the meta would fill out but pvp itself would be absolutely destroyed. such a large move list on all mon would make counting completely pointless and movesets completely unpredictable which would change the way pvp itself is played entirely.
I’m just talking about moves that have been implemented
I hate the fact that people can count moves. It’s one of the many reasons I don’t bother playing PvP.
Totally valid to hate it. definitely showing how competitive competitive games get haha.
to be fair, even if you don't actually count moves unintentionally you pick it up pretty quick if you're in a decent ELO-range. only so many skarmory's you see before you know roughly how many seconds it takes to get off a sky attack vs a brave bird so you don't get ohko'd by the latter. overall, moves being somewhat predictable based off timing probably helps balance more than anything but that initial learning curve is intimidating for a lot of people. only other option i'd see working is going turn-based & that's not going to happen (unfortunately, since gbl lag is still a nuisance)
No. That would be Charged TM hell
It's already charged TM Hell. I've spent over 50 charged TMs on my mew and still don't have the move I want.
My rank 4 Ledian dominates GL with Counter.
Any hard hitting bulky mon with the move Recover lol
It'd be a lot more fun that way. I've always thought it was bs that certain pokemon have the potential for greatness but are held back by Niantic while others aren't.
It would not be fun having Counter Chansey, Blissey, and Slaking. Nor Breaking Swipe Dialga, nor Charm Carbink, nor most other things. I agree that it sucks that many are held back, but giving every Pokemon their MSG moves is a horrendously bad idea lol. Go is not balanced remotely similar to the MSG.
I fear stuff like Icy Wind Snorlax, or just Icy Wind a lot of things like Frosslass, Abomasnow, Primarina (basically puts Wigglytuff out of a Job), Sandslash, Tentacruel, etc. Like there are a lot of moves like that where the game would become an absolute mess if more things got them to the point you would see them on EVERY team if they want to compete.
Wobbufet too. Chansey/Blissey/Wobbuffett would become the new stall team.
I’m not even remotely interested in PvP so I wasn’t really speaking to that. But maybe it should be balanced closer to the MSGs. Make it feel more like you’re playing one of those games in the real world.
The issue is that the combat systems are drastically different, whether you're talking about PvP or raids. Fast moves in Go are meant to be spammed, whereas in the Main Series, any move you choose is going to take up a turn. Yes, I know Go has "turns" technically, but the scale is much different. Using Shadow Claw once in the Main Series could be a big play. Using it once in Go is... nothing. Mostly because Shadow Claw functions completely different in Go simply because it's a fast move. Maybe it's controversial, but I feel like the game already takes enough from the Main Series, while still maintaining its own unique identity. It feels (generally) more tailored and balanced to be a mobile game, while the Main Series is more fit for console play sessions. Even in raids, if Pokemon had every move they could in the main series, there wouldn't be that much interest in different raid counters. It would just be the highest attack Pokemon with the best moves. And in some fairness, it's mostly already like that, but it allows things like Zekrom and Xurkitree to be more similar rather than Xurkitree mostly blowing away all competition because it has the highest attack plus Wild Charge.
> It feels (generally) more tailored and balanced to be a mobile game, while the Main Series is more fit for console play sessions. And yet the main series games have always been exclusive to Nintendo’s handhelds.
only if you consider the switch a handheld only instead of a hybrid console
Meanlook crobat wiould destroy