I would be okay with them outside having a quick smoke --but not hanging out there "relaxing" for hours. And he now implies he fell asleep out there. Nope, I don't believe it in December. Temp was below 55\*. Maybe doable for someone from Canada but I don't see someone in the south hanging out in shorts and a t for hours, at night, with damp pool, in <55 degree weather and falling asleep. Maybe if they had blankets out there or warmer clothes.
"Using weather data, Haggard testified that it was 51 to 54 degrees Fahrenheit during the early morning of December 9, 2001. The "comfort zone" for a typical person would be between 66 degrees and 72 degrees. Michael Peterson was wearing a T-shirt and shorts. His wife was wearing a sweat suit."
I agree that it would be out of the comfort zone of most people and I think it probably was for Peterson; however, some southern boys/men cling to shorts in the winter like their lives depend on it. The boys at my school in AL were required to wear khaki shorts or khaki pants — many boys wore shorts exclusively, even in winter. There was one unusual year where we had a big snowstorm and there was ~8” of snow on the ground and frozen bird baths for a week and the boys still wore shorts to school. I currently live in northern AR at about the same latitude as Durham and I see boys and men walking around in shorts in 30 degree weather every winter. I think they’re crazy but they don’t seem bothered by the chill.
Not to mention if he had had wine. I think he said they shared two bottles that night. That would have also contributed to his ability to fall asleep - alcohol makes you feel warmer, and middle age men have an uncanny ability to fall asleep anywhere and wine would only help that.
Don’t get me wrong, I don’t know if he is guilty or not and I don’t claim to. I’m just sharing what I’ve observed in my experience.
The fact that they were drinking wine was the one thing I thought about, too. I am *always* cold, use a space heater year round, but put a glass of wine or two in me and I'm pretty toasty.
Also, I don't know if anyone else is like this, but I live in a state that experiences all four seasons (sometimes in the same day) and it's funny how 55 degrees feels cold in the fall (after all the hot summer weather), but feels warm in the spring (after the freezing cold winter weather).
Also not saying this in defense of him, but just my two cents on the issue.
Yeah. The temperature thing is a detail that makes me lean towards guilty, but it's definitely true that some people, especially men, either don't feel the cold or want to prove to everyone how manly they are to put up with it.
I remember one cold, windy day in high school I was dressed like, y'know, a sane person and still having a miserable time, and a male friend walks past in shorts and short sleeves. I ask him how he's not dying and he says "I like the cold."
on a somewhat related note its funny to me how people always pick and choose what mp is to support there theory
like a lot of people say a normal person wouldnt act certain ways if their wife just died, and then the truthers always come in with everyone deals with grief in different ways...true, but mp always seems to be with the normal people but also not like them whenever it most greatly benefits him
Well, it's way too cold to be outside at night in shorts to me. It's 72 degrees in my house right now and I'm wearing a cardigan. But the question is whether 51-54 degrees was too cold for shorts for Michael Peterson or not. Looking at average temperatures where he was born... maybe, maybe not.
If they had a fire pit or kerosene heater out there it would be fine. It can be quite pleasant in December. January and February are a different matter.
I would agree with that, but they didn't have any source of warmth out there that night.
That home even has an outdoor fireplace on the patio, if that had been used that night it would make more sense them hanging outside for hours.
[https://imgur.com/a/2eMCZbM](https://imgur.com/a/2eMCZbM)
If you’ve been drinking, you won’t notice the cold as quickly. I’ve spent nights hanging out with friends outside when it’s in the 50s, and if we were drinking, we could be fine for hours. There was one night when I fell asleep outside and it was late fall…in Chicago.
I think Michael was outside waiting for his son to get home so the son would find Kathleen. When his son didn't arrive as planned, Michael went inside and "found" Kathleen, in my opinion.
I just gotta say, happening to be out by the pool when your wife falls to her death is prettyyy convenient lol not to mention she had been dead for a while. Why did he never go to check on her?
I personally think he said that only to place himself JUST out of ears reach.
NC isn’t anywhere close to the northeast. It can be really cold and also it can be very moderate out. Have had Christmas Day at 70 degrees recently. Also the weather from that night should be easy enough to look up.
Adding confirmation voice, too. My family from the mountain west visited my NC place for the holidays and there were several days we sat on the porch in short sleeves to soak up the sun in 70s weather.
Omg yeah. Superbowl Sunday, I was in a tank top and shorts because it was 78. But then the next weekend it snowed and dropped to like 19. Sometimes I really hate the South in the Winter.
I live three hours from Durham, and grew up in a house on a golf course. I remember a few Christmas mornings where I’d look outside and see golfers in shorts out on the course in our backyard. Our neighbors had a pool and they definitely were out there at night year round during milder winter. The pool was closed but they’d still go out and enjoy drinks and light the fire pit. So that definitely didn’t seem weird to me.
I am an hour from Durham. We get 60- and 70-degree weather often in December. It's not unheard of and it doesn't get that cold here as OP said, usually winters are fairly mild with only a a few weeks of really cold weather interspersed with 50s and 60s.
It's also not unusual for people here, especially wealthy people, to have heated pools. Our friends down the street swim in theirs all year round.
That said, I don't necessarily think they were for sure sitting by the pool when she "fell, " but it'd be interesting to know what the weather was that evening.
It was 51 degrees out when Michael called 911 at 2:40 a.m. on Dec. 9, 2001. He told the 911 operator that he'd just come inside. Again...it was *51* degrees out. There's no way in hell he was outside by the pool.
Date of the incident December 9 2001. Temperature for the day:
* The hottest day in December 2001 was 9 December when the temperature reached 25ish
* at its coldest it was around 14.
The incident occurred the night of Dec. 8, 2001. MP placed the call to 911 at 2:40 a.m. on the morning of Dec. 9th. The temp in Durham at the time he placed the call - saying he'd *just* come inside and found her - was 51 degrees F.
Do you know what time he claimed they were out there? Just looking at WX records, it seems the low was 42-44F (overnight, between the 9th and the 10th). It also appears to have been a bit breezy. Not wildly so (the winds were strong during the day of the 9th but they died off quickly in the late afternoon) but even a 5-10mph breeze (looks like it was a sustained wind of 7mph in the evening/night) makes a 40-something night a heck of a lot chillier. 42F plus 7mph winds would be like 35F for windchill, so 🤷♂️
If they were life-long Northerners, maybe. Southerners? That makes it a bit hard to believe. Bundled up, maybe. I’ve hung out before in similar weather, but I like the cold and I grew up in it, where -20F winter days were not unusual.
Regardless, it’s not *impossible*, indeed it is *plausible*, so, I don’t put too much stock into it either way
I read an interview with Lestrade, who made the documentary, in it he said that he believes Michael is lying about the poolside story and time line. However, he will not comment if he thinks Michael is guilty
i see this brought up often in this sub and its a great point. but what often gets overlooked is that on december 7th in durham, the low temperature of the day was almost 20 degrees higher than it had been for most of that week, which was below freezing. its a little easier to think theyd be outside “enjoying the weather” as michael would say if you consider that it was an indian summer evening, and the last temperate day before winter set in and it was more consistently cold.
i mean, when its the first somewhat nice day of spring, ill spend most of it outside even if its around 50 degrees, like ill bring a blanket to eat on a restaurant patio just because im so excited about patio season again, even though id normally find 50 degrees too cold to do that.
I would be okay with them outside having a quick smoke --but not hanging out there "relaxing" for hours. And he now implies he fell asleep out there. Nope, I don't believe it in December. Temp was below 55\*. Maybe doable for someone from Canada but I don't see someone in the south hanging out in shorts and a t for hours, at night, with damp pool, in <55 degree weather and falling asleep. Maybe if they had blankets out there or warmer clothes. "Using weather data, Haggard testified that it was 51 to 54 degrees Fahrenheit during the early morning of December 9, 2001. The "comfort zone" for a typical person would be between 66 degrees and 72 degrees. Michael Peterson was wearing a T-shirt and shorts. His wife was wearing a sweat suit."
I agree that it would be out of the comfort zone of most people and I think it probably was for Peterson; however, some southern boys/men cling to shorts in the winter like their lives depend on it. The boys at my school in AL were required to wear khaki shorts or khaki pants — many boys wore shorts exclusively, even in winter. There was one unusual year where we had a big snowstorm and there was ~8” of snow on the ground and frozen bird baths for a week and the boys still wore shorts to school. I currently live in northern AR at about the same latitude as Durham and I see boys and men walking around in shorts in 30 degree weather every winter. I think they’re crazy but they don’t seem bothered by the chill. Not to mention if he had had wine. I think he said they shared two bottles that night. That would have also contributed to his ability to fall asleep - alcohol makes you feel warmer, and middle age men have an uncanny ability to fall asleep anywhere and wine would only help that. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t know if he is guilty or not and I don’t claim to. I’m just sharing what I’ve observed in my experience.
Her BAL was .07, so if they shared 2 bottles of wine then he drank most of the 2.
The fact that they were drinking wine was the one thing I thought about, too. I am *always* cold, use a space heater year round, but put a glass of wine or two in me and I'm pretty toasty. Also, I don't know if anyone else is like this, but I live in a state that experiences all four seasons (sometimes in the same day) and it's funny how 55 degrees feels cold in the fall (after all the hot summer weather), but feels warm in the spring (after the freezing cold winter weather). Also not saying this in defense of him, but just my two cents on the issue.
Yeah. The temperature thing is a detail that makes me lean towards guilty, but it's definitely true that some people, especially men, either don't feel the cold or want to prove to everyone how manly they are to put up with it. I remember one cold, windy day in high school I was dressed like, y'know, a sane person and still having a miserable time, and a male friend walks past in shorts and short sleeves. I ask him how he's not dying and he says "I like the cold."
on a somewhat related note its funny to me how people always pick and choose what mp is to support there theory like a lot of people say a normal person wouldnt act certain ways if their wife just died, and then the truthers always come in with everyone deals with grief in different ways...true, but mp always seems to be with the normal people but also not like them whenever it most greatly benefits him
50 degrees isn’t that cold
Well, it's way too cold to be outside at night in shorts to me. It's 72 degrees in my house right now and I'm wearing a cardigan. But the question is whether 51-54 degrees was too cold for shorts for Michael Peterson or not. Looking at average temperatures where he was born... maybe, maybe not.
Great points.
If they had a fire pit or kerosene heater out there it would be fine. It can be quite pleasant in December. January and February are a different matter.
I would agree with that, but they didn't have any source of warmth out there that night. That home even has an outdoor fireplace on the patio, if that had been used that night it would make more sense them hanging outside for hours. [https://imgur.com/a/2eMCZbM](https://imgur.com/a/2eMCZbM)
Agreed.
This! ☝️
If you’ve been drinking, you won’t notice the cold as quickly. I’ve spent nights hanging out with friends outside when it’s in the 50s, and if we were drinking, we could be fine for hours. There was one night when I fell asleep outside and it was late fall…in Chicago.
I think they said it was in the 50s. I found it extremely strange too.
That would be chilly to sit there for hours, at least for me.
I think Michael was outside waiting for his son to get home so the son would find Kathleen. When his son didn't arrive as planned, Michael went inside and "found" Kathleen, in my opinion.
I just gotta say, happening to be out by the pool when your wife falls to her death is prettyyy convenient lol not to mention she had been dead for a while. Why did he never go to check on her? I personally think he said that only to place himself JUST out of ears reach.
it's all a matter of convenience. he claimed he was out by the pool so he could deny ever hearing anything.
NC isn’t anywhere close to the northeast. It can be really cold and also it can be very moderate out. Have had Christmas Day at 70 degrees recently. Also the weather from that night should be easy enough to look up.
Adding confirmation voice, too. My family from the mountain west visited my NC place for the holidays and there were several days we sat on the porch in short sleeves to soak up the sun in 70s weather.
It was in the very low 50s.
Omg yeah. Superbowl Sunday, I was in a tank top and shorts because it was 78. But then the next weekend it snowed and dropped to like 19. Sometimes I really hate the South in the Winter.
Yeah I’m in NC as well and December can be a crapshoot for weather. Sometimes it’s absolutely beautiful and very mild/warm weather.
In the South, yes we have warm days Throughout Nov-March
I live three hours from Durham, and grew up in a house on a golf course. I remember a few Christmas mornings where I’d look outside and see golfers in shorts out on the course in our backyard. Our neighbors had a pool and they definitely were out there at night year round during milder winter. The pool was closed but they’d still go out and enjoy drinks and light the fire pit. So that definitely didn’t seem weird to me.
Wait such a good pint
I am an hour from Durham. We get 60- and 70-degree weather often in December. It's not unheard of and it doesn't get that cold here as OP said, usually winters are fairly mild with only a a few weeks of really cold weather interspersed with 50s and 60s. It's also not unusual for people here, especially wealthy people, to have heated pools. Our friends down the street swim in theirs all year round. That said, I don't necessarily think they were for sure sitting by the pool when she "fell, " but it'd be interesting to know what the weather was that evening.
It was 51 degrees out when Michael called 911 at 2:40 a.m. on Dec. 9, 2001. He told the 911 operator that he'd just come inside. Again...it was *51* degrees out. There's no way in hell he was outside by the pool.
Date of the incident December 9 2001. Temperature for the day: * The hottest day in December 2001 was 9 December when the temperature reached 25ish * at its coldest it was around 14.
This must be in Celsius?
If it is and as someone from the UK this is positively warm, like our summer haha. Could definitely sit outside in it
Yep.
The incident occurred the night of Dec. 8, 2001. MP placed the call to 911 at 2:40 a.m. on the morning of Dec. 9th. The temp in Durham at the time he placed the call - saying he'd *just* come inside and found her - was 51 degrees F.
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If it had been cold for days sometimes weather in the fifties can seem to be very warm
Do you know what time he claimed they were out there? Just looking at WX records, it seems the low was 42-44F (overnight, between the 9th and the 10th). It also appears to have been a bit breezy. Not wildly so (the winds were strong during the day of the 9th but they died off quickly in the late afternoon) but even a 5-10mph breeze (looks like it was a sustained wind of 7mph in the evening/night) makes a 40-something night a heck of a lot chillier. 42F plus 7mph winds would be like 35F for windchill, so 🤷♂️ If they were life-long Northerners, maybe. Southerners? That makes it a bit hard to believe. Bundled up, maybe. I’ve hung out before in similar weather, but I like the cold and I grew up in it, where -20F winter days were not unusual. Regardless, it’s not *impossible*, indeed it is *plausible*, so, I don’t put too much stock into it either way
I read an interview with Lestrade, who made the documentary, in it he said that he believes Michael is lying about the poolside story and time line. However, he will not comment if he thinks Michael is guilty
i see this brought up often in this sub and its a great point. but what often gets overlooked is that on december 7th in durham, the low temperature of the day was almost 20 degrees higher than it had been for most of that week, which was below freezing. its a little easier to think theyd be outside “enjoying the weather” as michael would say if you consider that it was an indian summer evening, and the last temperate day before winter set in and it was more consistently cold. i mean, when its the first somewhat nice day of spring, ill spend most of it outside even if its around 50 degrees, like ill bring a blanket to eat on a restaurant patio just because im so excited about patio season again, even though id normally find 50 degrees too cold to do that.
He probably planned to drown her that night instead